Do We Have To Do This?

Summary

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Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Do We Have To Do This?

Date: January 8, 2026
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around the aftermath of a controversial police shooting in Minneapolis involving an ICE officer. Armstrong and Getty dissect public reactions, political responses, the nature of media coverage, and the legal complexities surrounding the incident. The hosts express frustration with how quickly society jumps to entrenched, emotionally charged positions, emphasizing the need for adult, rational discourse and patient fact-finding rather than instant polarization.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reluctance to Cover the Shooting & Media Cycle

Timestamps: 02:36–03:02

• Jack expresses hesitation: “Do we have to do this?”
• Joe jokes about contractual obligations to discuss it.
• Armstrong suggests that after controversial shootings, maybe the show should just take two days off to avoid contributing to the frenzy.
• Acknowledgment that stories like this engulf the news cycle and crowd out global issues like Iran, Venezuela, and Russia (09:35).

2. The “Rorschach Shooting” Effect—Societal Polarization

Timestamps: 03:14–05:20

• Joe introduces his coined term: “Our general manager is another Rorschach shooting.” (03:14)
• Jack notes how instantly, people interpret the footage through the lens of their biases:

  “Is that the way we live our whole lives, all of us, including me? Do I see everything through the lens of my prior beliefs?” (03:36)

• Discussion of Orwell’s notion:

  “The hardest thing for someone to do is to see what’s right in front of one's face.” (04:10)

• Joe: “To the extent that's not true of you or anyone else, that is the extent to which you are a rational human being.” (04:45)

3. Leadership, Political Posturing, and the Absence of Grown-Ups

Timestamps: 06:23–07:58

• Hosts lament how officials (the Minneapolis mayor, Kristi Noem, Trump, etc.) immediately take polarized positions:

  “We got no grown-ups. There are just no grown-ups anymore who feel like … 'It's an ongoing investigation. We're not going to comment.' Nobody does that anymore.” – Jack (07:16)

• Broad agreement that politicians speak as talk show hosts or Twitter accounts, not responsible leaders.

4. The Law vs. Morality and Emotion

Timestamps: 07:58–09:24

• Joe distinguishes between legal questions and moral/intent-based public reactions:

  “This is about the law... It comes down to some very specific legal questions. Now, if you want to make a bigger moral argument about what the law should be, that's a good conversation to have.” (08:59)

5. The Dangers of “Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes”

Timestamps: 10:19–11:09

• Joe iterates a life lesson: “Don't take like 10 steps down the road of something horrible might happen and then be shocked when something horrible happens. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” (10:19)
• Jack reflects: “I've played a lot of stupid games in my life… but never the big first prize where you drown in the ocean drunk in the middle of the night or … whatever it is I'm doing.” (10:53)

6. Media Coverage & Narrative Framing

Timestamps: 17:14–18:47

• Katie Green summarizes coverage:
  • ABC: “A state of terror and fear… accounts of the fatal shooting”
  • NBC: “Woman fatally shot by ICE agent identified as… out caring for her neighbors”
  • WaPo: “Woman killed by ICE… was a mother of three and a poet.”
• Hosts push back against headlines emphasizing her status as a mom or poet, stressing those details don’t affect legality:

  “The fact that she was a poet or a mom of zero or eight doesn’t have anything to do with. … That’s not good. It's not good that she's dead. But…”—Jack (17:56)

7. The Fixation on Intent and Policy, Not Facts

Timestamps: 26:11–29:29

• Joe reads tweets/emails reacting to the shooting, one from each side, illustrating polarized and often fact-free responses.
• Meta-commentary:

  “What if the Capitol Police had abided by the standards of MAGA commentators on the Minneapolis ICE shooting, half of the January 6 protesters would have been shot to death.” (30:04)
  “That is provocative.” —Jack (30:08)

8. The Race to the Bottom—Instant Outrage and Politicization

Timestamps: 31:12–32:22

• Jack, citing the Free Press, underscores how politicians rush out hot takes to get ahead of the narrative:

  “Too many politicians and senior bureaucrats have decided they must react to every tragedy according to the speed and logic of the Internet, which goads them to offer the most partisan take they can muster as quickly as possible.” (31:29)

• Joe: “Mayor Frey set the ugly tone … ‘I have a message for ICE: Get the F out of Minneapolis!’” (31:52)

9. Legal Substance—Definitions and Law in Minnesota

Timestamps: 36:10–37:50

• Joe gives the legal criteria for police use of deadly force in Minnesota:
  • “A peace officer may use deadly force only when necessary to protect … from imminent death or great bodily harm… or to arrest or prevent the escape of a person the officer reasonably believes has committed or attempted a felony involving deadly force…” (37:00)
• Jack notes left-wing skepticism about using a car as a “deadly weapon”:

  “I saw that portrayed in one of the lefty news outlets yesterday as, like, rolling their eyes. Like, courts have determined that using your car, driving your car forward with an officer in front of you is assault with a deadly weapon. Like, that's just nuts to make that.” (36:40-36:57)

10. Big Picture: Societal and Political Stakes

Timestamps: 34:21–35:31

• Jack and Joe note most people’s position on the shooting is pre-determined by political feelings about immigration or Trump—details of the case are secondary.
• “If you think it's impossible for cops to do something wrong, you're nuts. And if you think the cops are always wrong in these shootings, you're nuts.” —Jack (35:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Confirmation Bias:
  “Is that the way we live our whole lives, all of us, including me? … Do I see everything through the lens of my prior beliefs or wishes so strongly that I'm incapable of really seeing things, truly?” —Jack Armstrong (03:36)

• On Rationality:
  “To the extent that that's not true of you or anyone else, that is the extent to which you are a rational human being.” —Joe Getty (04:45)

• On Public Officials Posturing:
  “We got no grown-ups. There are just no grown-ups anymore who feel like … 'It's an ongoing investigation. We're not going to comment.' Nobody does that anymore. … Everybody's a talk show host or a Twitter feed.” —Jack Armstrong (07:16)

• On the Purpose of the Law:
  “This is about the law ... It comes down to some very specific legal questions. Now, if you want to make a bigger moral argument about what the law should be, that's … good conversation to have. But ... I just find the whole thing frustrating.” —Joe Getty (08:59)

• On Life Lessons:
  “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” —Joe Getty (10:19)

• On Politicizing Legal Questions:
  “If you think cops can never do anything wrong, you don't know any cops. They'll tell you. Yes. Yeah, we do.” —Joe Getty (35:51)

• Summary on Legal Standards:
  “Driving your car and at an officer in a way that could hurt or kill them is absolutely assault with a deadly weapon against a peace officer. The penalties are rather severe. It is unquestionably use of deadly force.” —Joe Getty (36:10)

• On Media Framing:
  “The fact that she was a poet or a mom of zero or eight doesn't have anything to do with … what was the—who had the headline, though, about … she was out trying to help neighbors?” —Jack Armstrong (17:56)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Opening: Reluctance and Contractual Obligations — 02:36–03:02
• Rorschach Shooting & Confirmation Bias — 03:14–05:20
• Leadership and Absence of Grown-Ups — 06:23–07:58
• Law vs. Emotion/Morality — 07:58–09:24
• Media Coverage and Headline Framing — 17:14–18:47
• Legal Definition of Deadly Force (MN Statute) — 36:10–37:50

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Tone and Language

The episode weaves humor, sarcasm, and frustration throughout a substantive conversation. Jack and Joe remain skeptical and critical but work to maintain a measured perspective. They frequently highlight the absurdities of instant partisan reactions, advocate for rational and legal approaches, and weave in reminders not to conflate emotion or personal background with legal standards.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a clear-eyed, often biting critique of America’s instant-gratification, outrage-driven media and politics. Armstrong & Getty push listeners to resist lazy partisanship—encouraging patience, skepticism, and rational inquiry, especially in moments of tragedy and controversy. The episode is especially valuable for those interested in how media shapes public opinion, the role of law in emotional circumstances, and the modern challenges of responsible leadership.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Joe Getty]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. Armstrong and Getty. And now here's.

[Jack Armstrong]

Do we have to do this?

[Joe Getty]

Checking the contractors reading down paragraph 14. Yes, yes, yes we do.

[Jack Armstrong]

I suggested during the morning meeting yes, we actually planned this out and it still turns out this way. Yeah suggested during the morning meeting that maybe the show policy be after a shooting. After a controversial shooting, we always take two days off.

[Joe Getty]

I voted in favor of this, but again, seems like it's off to the contract. Could not Find any wiggle room.

[Jack Armstrong]

Live from Studio C, yada, yada yada. Today we're under the tutelage of our general manager.

[Joe Getty]

I rarely explain the general manager in advance, Jack, but today I'm going to. I have coined a term. I believe this is an original work by Joe Getty. Our general manager is another Rorschach shooting.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, no kidding. I tweeted about that last night.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, did you?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. It's interesting you didn't see my tweet. I said basically the same thing is. And I think there are lots of people who sincerely believe this. Who it is on its face, clearly a murder or it's on its face. She tried to run over the guy. He did what he was. He had no choice. And. And it's clearly, like, obviously true from first glance. And I think everybody's being sincere about that, which I find alone, without getting into immigration policy or politics or anything else freaking fascinating. Is that the way we live our whole lives, all of us, including me? Do I see everything through the lens of my prior beliefs or wishes so strongly that I'm incapable of really seeing things? Truly? I guess it's the Orwell quote. The hardest thing for someone to do is to see what's right in front of one's face. I guess because we have so much built up, this is what I want to be true. Our brain kicks in and makes it true.

[Joe Getty]

Well, to the extent that that's not true of you or anyone else, that is the extent to which you are a rational human human being.

[Jack Armstrong]

So you think, well, it's tough because one side is. Well.

[Joe Getty]

Jack, I didn't say it was.

[Jack Armstrong]

Easy to get into the story.

[Joe Getty]

I was going for good and condescending.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't think it's clearly anything. I lean one direction, but I don't think it's clearly anything. So I'm amazed that everybody who. Who immediately are 100% certain of something.

[Joe Getty]

All right, well, I will tell you that what the actual question is is clear to me, and I have spent a great deal of time researching the answer to it, and I will bring that to you in a little bit. I am an odd duck. There is no doubt of that. Ask anybody who knows me. I don't particularly enjoy rushing to my prior attitude and just yelling about it. I really want to know. Wow, this is an interesting case. What does the law say? What does precedent say? What's the truth here? And that's going to be my approach and. And. And help you sort it out. It's not 100% clearly one or the other. I will tell you that there is a one specific point of law that is at question here and it's an interesting one. But you know, this is why I'm not invited to the cool people parties because most people just want to shout what they believed coming in. That's fine.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's fine.

[Joe Getty]

So that's probably happier than I am friends. Although I'm pretty happy honestly.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's definitely fine for the average human being. But we've, we have no.

[Joe Getty]

And it's fine for the governor of or for the mayor of Minneapolis by the way, to spout off like a freaking adolescent.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, that's what I was going to say. We got no grown ups. There are just no grown ups anymore who feel like whether it's Kristi Noem who immediately went to conclusions also and Trump went to conclusions and the mayor went to conclusions and Walls went to conclusions and the media, oh my God. ABC Evening News led basically what David Muir said, a cop murdered a woman today. We'll show you the video.

[Joe Getty]

I mean MSNBC did everything but hand out and for the coming revolution but there's. Nobody watches that so it's not that important.

[Jack Armstrong]

But the media, again, it's not good. I don't like it. But I'm amazed there are no grownups in government. The I used to bother me when something exciting would happen and a mayor or a president or a senator or whoever would step in and say it's an ongoing investigation. We're not going to comment on this. Time to be like, oh man, I'm all worked up. What do you mean we're gonna wait. But that's the way we used to do things. Everybody did it that way. Not gonna comment on this until we've got all the information gathered. It's troubling but we're not blah, blah, blah. Nobody does that anymore. Nobody. Everybody's a talk show host or a Twitter feed.

[Joe Getty]

Right. Right. Yeah. Well said. Another way to put it, and this is the way I've been thinking about it is that everybody or a lot of people are so hung up on intent and emotion and what people should have known and just this is about the law. And if for instance, and I don't want to get into this in the again pre show meeting we decided we weren't really going to talk about it here because there's a lot to be said but people are really, really leaning on things that are completely irrelevant to the specific question of whether the shooting was justified. And that's the way they See the world and. Or it. It's to them, to. To a lot of people. You gotta take the totality of it and weigh the morality of it and then come down with, was that a nice person or a mean person?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

Was that a nice person or a mean person? Were that. Was that person doing nice things for the world or. And it was that person doing nasty things against good people of the world. And that's how I'll decide the case? No, it comes down to some very specific legal questions. Now, if you want to make a bigger moral argument about what the law should be, it's pretty good a conversation to have. But I don't know, I just find the whole thing frustrating.

[Jack Armstrong]

Were they a mom or not?

[Joe Getty]

Whether the child will be sad its mommy is dead, don't enter into it.

[Jack Armstrong]

One interesting thing about this as it is obliterated the news cycle and will probably through today. I hope not longer than that. To some extent, it depends on what Trump says or Wall says or whatever, on how. With the legs of this story, man, what's going on in Iran and Venezuela and Russia and Ukraine, Huge stories.

[Joe Getty]

Right, Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

With giant worldwide implications maybe for decades to come.

[Joe Getty]

Can't wait to talk about it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, we should start the show officially.

[Joe Getty]

You know, before we do that, I have one more thing on Minnesota because I know we have a predominantly conservative listenership and I have a feeling, I know the way most people are leaning on this and I will tell you.

[Jack Armstrong]

This in our audience.

[Joe Getty]

In our audience, but this, again, this is not some sort of conclusion about legality or illegality. Here's a suggestion for you as you live your life, friends. Same suggestion I make to my kids, my friends, my beautiful spouse. Don't take like 10 steps down the road of something horrible might happen and then be shocked when something horrible happens. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, And I've played a lot of stupid games in my life and in many cases I got like, you know, third place prize in the stupid prize, but never the big first prize where you drown in the ocean drunk in the middle of the night or, you know, whatever it is I'm doing.

[Joe Getty]

Right. But yeah, you're going to play the brave revolutionary. Sometimes bad things happen anyway.

[Jack Armstrong]

And can the Supreme Court finally decide whether a sanctuary. Sanctuary city is a thing? That would be nice.

[Joe Getty]

But anyways, more.

[Jack Armstrong]

More on that later. We'll start the show officially. I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty on this. It is. How did it already get to be Thursday, January 8th, the year 2026 where Armstrong and Getty and we approve of this program.

[Joe Getty]

I think Trump may have defunded the fcc, but let's start anyway at Mark.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

They are already trying to spin this as an action of self defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly that is bull. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying.

[Joe Getty]

You are an emotional adolescent and you need to sit down and let the grown ups talk. Jacob Fry Frey of Minneapolis, the mayor.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, there are multiple videos and I know when I saw one video that came in later in the day it looked slightly more this direction than than something else I saw.

[Joe Getty]

So no one. That was plenty.

[Jack Armstrong]

I saw the video and I've concluded a murder happened. God, we don't mean we need leaders to be grown ups. I know it's more boring. I know you don't get near as many clicks or donations pouring into your fund immediately. You don't get on Fox News or MSNBC as easily. But we need more grown ups. There's an investigation going on, very troubled by what happened, etc. Etc. You used to hear that sort of thing. It's so long in the past. Kind of hardly even remember that happening. I know we've got Katie's headlines on the way with a lot going on. Always look forward to your texts. 415295kftc Armstrong and Getty this episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. Whether you're starting a new routine or making player picks for the first time, trying something new can be hard. But in life and on Price Picks, it always feels good to be right.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

I guess.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm mostly troubled by the way. We're all just so dug in. We. We, we. We take in information through a filter that gets us to where we want to be no matter what. People have always been that way. There have always been fringes that are that way. But the entire population of voters is that way now.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, and the the pros in the business would tell you dudes, that's where the money is. It's where the clicks are. That's where the donations are. That's where the votes are. So cling to your silly little rationality if you want. It's very, very cute. But you're wasting your time.

[Jack Armstrong]

Nice. We got more swimming against the tide.

[Joe Getty]

Like a bold salmon that swims. All salmon swim against the tide. Don't they kind of scream, I think.

[Jack Armstrong]

When they're trying to get another metaphor?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I don't know that much about salmon other than they're good eating.

[Jack Armstrong]

We'll get into the video and all that sort of stuff later.

[Joe Getty]

Salmon Rushdie.

[Jack Armstrong]

Real soon. We will get into it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

All right.

[Joe Getty]

Glad Katie enjoyed that. All right, let's begin officially now. I'm sorry, no, that was the last segment. Let's figure out who's reporting what. It's the lead story with Katie Green.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Katie.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

Oh, well, of course, most of the major outlets are covering the Minneapolis situation, so three of those, starting with abc, quote, a state of terror and fear. Eyewitnesses share her, their accounts of the fatal shooting in Minneapolis. NBC woman fatally shot by ICE agent identified as a resident who was, quote, out caring for her neighbors. And the Washington Post, woman killed by ICE in Minneapolis was a mother of three and a poet.

[Joe Getty]

Mother of three? I thought she was a mother of one. The fact that she was a poet factors in.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay, we lost a poet.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

We lost a poet. And some of her poetry is nuts.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I, I don't, I wish she weren't dead. All right, so I'm not, I don't. That's not good. It's not good that she's dead. But the fact that she was a poet or a mom of zero or eight doesn't have anything to do with. What was the, who had the headline, though, about the. She was out trying to help neighbors.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

That was NBC.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Okay. National Broadcasting Company.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

From the New York Times.

[Joe Getty]

She was out trying to block enforcement actions by ICE all day long. Day long. She, they knew she was lead vehicle.

[Jack Armstrong]

And they knew who she was. She had spent the entire day trying to get in their way, harassing them and trying to get in their way. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Whether or not he should have shot or not, that's a different question from.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

The New York New York Times. Trump says U.S. oversight of Venezuela could last four years.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So Trump's interview. Trump's probably unhappy about this. Trump did a two hour sit down interview with the New York Times yesterday and it's getting obliterated by the Minnesota shooting. But we'll get into some of the things he said, including that for how long will we run Venezuela? Two years?

[Joe Getty]

Couple, two, three, Depends.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

The Wall Street Journal, Trump moves to ban big investors from buying single family homes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, this is a controversial one. I want to talk about this later. I know It's. It's devastated the town I live in.

[Joe Getty]

Bloomberg.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

Billionaires are ramping up their California exits after threat of wealth tax.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

5% tax on the.

[Joe Getty]

You're too rich, rich. Yeah, yeah. Europe has tried this and it is completely discredited. It's a terrible policy and counterproductive. But that doesn't matter to socialists.

[Jack Armstrong]

You end up with the Rolling Stones moving to France, for instance. When you do this right, right.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

From the Daily Mail. Take the fat jabs for life. Experts rule, as study reveals users coming off of the drugs pile the pounds back on in under two years.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me that if you take that stuff, you got to kind of just stay on it like a blood pressure medicine or something like that forever. But it's gotten so cheap. That new one that's outs $25 a month with the copay from the New York Post.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

KFC worker allegedly stabbed multiple times by customer who became upset about his gravy.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Gravy's a serious.

[Joe Getty]

I know you're serious about gravy.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Jack.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

From study finds what is oat zempic and does it actually work for weight loss?

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

People are taking raw oats, blending them with water and adding lemon juice, thinking it's going to keep them full as.

[Jack Armstrong]

Long as they're steel cut, whatever the hell that means.

[Joe Getty]

Whatever. You give me aluminum cut, oatmeal, I'm throwing it in your face.

[News Reader/Katie Green]

And finally, from the Babylon Bee, White house announces over 1 million new jobs were created in December, but they were all filled by Marco Rubio.

[Joe Getty]

That is a funny meme if you're hip to that. Little Marco has like four official titles. And now the hip thing is to put him in football uniforms and the Shah of Iran outfit and say he's doing all those jobs.

[Jack Armstrong]

Speaking of Iran, they protesters revolution. If it might be actually be a revolution. They brought down the biggest flat flag there in Tehran. That's not the sort of thing you usually can pull off with the ayatollah's goons there. So who knows where this is going? That's a big story. Also, the other headline, the US Trade deficit shrank in October to the lowest level since 2009. That's a tariff thing, for better or worse.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that's a complicated discussion, too. Speaking of subtleties that most people ignore.

[Jack Armstrong]

Let'S get into the subtleties of the shooting. Among other things on the way, so stay tuned.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Joe Getty]

Act of domestic terrorism. What happened was our ICE officers were.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Out in enforcement action.

[Joe Getty]

They got stuck in the snow because.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Of the adverse weather that is in Minne. They were attempting to push out their.

[Joe Getty]

Vehicle and a woman attacked them and.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Those surrounding them and attempted to run.

[Joe Getty]

Them over and ram them with her vehicle.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's Kristi noem in her cowboy hat. The DHS secretary after the shoot.

[Joe Getty]

Domestic terrorism says the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. The mayor of Minneapolis has a differing different opinion.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

They are already trying to spin this as an action of self defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly that is bull. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying. There's little I can say again that'll make this situation better. But I do have a message for our community, for our city, and I have a message for ICE to ice, get the out of Minneapolis.

[Jack Armstrong]

Am I wrong that in the olden times, the DHS secretary that soon after an incident like that would have just said, I'm not going to comment. It's an ongoing investigation. Loss of life is always troubling. But we're going to take a look at this and you know, be very careful.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

That'd be it.

[Joe Getty]

Correct. Yeah. And the mayor would say something similar.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Or maybe hint at the direction they were leaning. But they would be an adult about it. Certainly.

[Jack Armstrong]

Mark Halperin wrote and fits in with kind of our vibe today. Good luck finding one Trump voter who thinks it was murder or one Trump opponent who believes the ICE officer acted in self defense. Which is messed up. I agree. Media reports that the videos are. This is the part that's a little confusing to me. Media reports that the videos are inconclusive about whether her car hit the officer are absurd.

[Joe Getty]

However. Well, which gets to the problem of Mayor Fry watching one video and saying, or Frey, I guess you pronounce it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

Learn to pronounce your own name. Having seen one video, there are multiple videos and they, they give you a different point of view. And the one video that I've seen, she unquestionably hits him not once but twice with the. The front corner of her car and then catches him with the rear view mirror.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know. You know, these videos came to me through Twitter, so I don't know when they were available to the mayor or the DHS secretary. I have a feeling probably roughly the same timeline because this stuff got out pretty fast. The first video we saw on the day, I couldn't tell what the hell happened.

[Joe Getty]

True.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was only focusing on the guy at the window. I didn't even know there was someone in front of the car. In the first video, which I think is the one that everybody was commenting on right off the bat, you didn't even know there was anybody in front of the car. Then when I saw the other angles where, oh, there's a guy in front of the car. Well, that was looked. It looked completely different, right? Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And again, there is. There are multiple videos and one I've just seen recently. Again, you can see very clearly the jolt to the officer as he's caught by the car in the ways I just described also. Now, this is not a conclusion. We are not leaping to conclusions. Stay with us. We'll explain why and how we ought to come to a conclusion in a minute.

[Jack Armstrong]

Once you're in that situation, who knows what was in her head at the time? Once you're in that situation, which I wouldn't get myself into, and I don't suggest you do it either. But once you're in that situation and the guy's grabbing on your door handle and people are shouting and she was probably looking at the window and hit the gas and doesn't even know there was somebody in front of her, who knows, Right. As opposed to intentionally trying to run over the guy. Who knows at that point, I don't know.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

We don't know. And that's a great point. Some of the reactions online, as you might guess, are, well, I have coined the term, or unless you did last night Rorschach shooting. It's just like Michael Brown and a dozen other ones.

[Jack Armstrong]

Just.

[Joe Getty]

People immediately rush to their. Their prior attitudes, which is fine. Let's see. This is Dion who he says, folks, I'm going to keep this real simple. If you park in the middle of the street and block law enforcement, they have the right to detain you for an infraction. It's done on purpose. It's a crime. If they're legally detaining you and you try to get away, you have now committed a crime. If an officer's in front of your vehicle, you drive forward while he she are in front of you. It can be considered a clear hostile act and an assault with deadly weapon. Because vehicle has the potential, blah, blah, blah, which can lead to a law enforcement officer using deadly force to prevent you from hitting him or potentially killing anyone else. If you don't want that to happen for you, for your safety and the safety off the officers, don't do that. Then this. She was protesting with her vehicle and then hit officer with vehicle. She is a moron and now she is dead.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know how helpful that is.

[Joe Getty]

Then you have this. She was sitting in her car allowing others to go by harming. Nobody waved to the officers for their car to go by too. Instead, masked officers drove up Started cursing at her. The officers escalated. Escalated in the first place. Why? And then one final one. Oh, this is provocative, friends. It's kind of off the topic, but I thought if the Capitol Police had abided by the standards of MAGA commentators on the Minneapolis ice shooting, half of the January 6 protesters would have been shot to death.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, that's a good one. That is. That is provocative.

[Joe Getty]

What if the lady in question had been beating the ice officers with a flag pole? What then?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Shooter.

[Joe Getty]

Sorry, folks, you get consistency here. I know there's not a lot of that these days.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's a good one. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Anyway, decides nothing about this case, of course.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, but that is. That is good.

[Joe Getty]

The free press with a great article has often sang a lot of the definition the things we've already said then says the task of sorting through and weighing ambiguous evidence belongs to police investigators, government commissions, judges and jurors. Each step of the process requires time and deliberation. While the investigations progress, elected officials and agency heads are expected to comment only on what's known for certain, while reassuring the public in mourning the dead. Unfortunately, too many politicians and senior bureaucrats have decided they must react to every tragedy according to the speed and logic of the Internet, which goads them to offer the most partisan take they can muster as quickly as possible, lest the other side's narrative sway the public. First, they spread falsehoods and baseless conclusions with no apparent remorse.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. See, that's the whole race to the bottom thing that I'm always talking about that I don't know how we break out of because we're are in an environment where if you go with the grown up, it just happened. Loss of life is always troubling. But there's an investigation going on. I've only seen a video briefly. We're going to take a long look at it. If you do that and the other side goes with it was murder and gets everybody all whipped up, you're in. You're in a bad shape politically already. Or the reverse. So that's the race to the bottom. You think the other side's going to immediately brand it something. So you've got. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Mayor Frey Fry set the ugly tone in the now famous conference. I have a message for ice. Get the F out of Minneapolis. We do not want you here. Blah, blah, blah. I would like to stop him right there. All right. So we have federal law, we have federal law enforcement, we have people in violation of federal law. And the federal law enforcement is trying to enforce the federal law. Why would they get The F out of Minneapolis. Why exactly? According to the law. Not according to your feelings. According to the law.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, they're a sanctuary city. They don't believe that that exists.

[Joe Getty]

And then you got Kristi Noem covering herself in glory, who in her early press conference at least said they got stuck in the snow because the adverse weather. As we heard, they were attempting to push out their vehicle and the woman attacked them. All right, that's so just not helpful.

[Jack Armstrong]

With no, no details.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I know. Oh my God, that's rough. Okay, here's the situation. If you want to take an overall moral view of the situation. Whether this woman was a stupid, self righteous lefty who is playing the brave revolutionary and in that adolescent way of so many people on the left not knowing that she was doing something very serious. And then when things, having pushed it and pushed it and pushed it, when things went south, everybody's like, oh my God, the cruel cops. The cruel cops, including some people we like and respect. You know, you've got a good point. There's good way I didn't get shot by ICE yesterday for a very good reason. Not only did I not do what she did, I wouldn't do what she did. There are a hundred things she could have done to protest ICE and its policies and the law and its procedures and not done what she did. On the other hand, the cop could have, having been hit, jumped out of the way and let her drive away. They could have caught her later. That's true too. So what question are we trying to answer here? I don't know. What question are you trying to answer here? Was the ICE officer legally in the right to shoot the woman? That's a different question than the whole scenario as it unfolded. Who was being moral and who was being immoral? And the problem is, and again, I thought we used to have a grip on this as a society. The question is those can be two very different questions with two very different answers.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I think at the root of most of the stuff is. You would look at it like she got killed because Trump is out of control. ICE is out of control. And this whole trying to kick out the illegals thing is wrong. And they're Nazis and they're Nazis or we got to kick out all the illegals. We shouldn't let so many illegals in. ICE has got to do its job. So it's justified. So it doesn't even get down to the particulars of the moment, that 10 second period. It's just, do you agree with the policy or not?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah. So I'm looking at the clock and trying to appraise the interest of anybody, including you folks in the. The actual legal question in front of us. Does anybody have any interest in that? I think there are some people.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's what I said. That's my point. Really. It's just. Yeah, I'm not sure they do. It's handy to pretend you do. But what you're really saying is you don't like Trump's policy at all.

[Joe Getty]

Right, right. But how about folks on the conservative side of the issue, generally speaking? Yeah, generally speaking. Who are in support of the shooting?

[Jack Armstrong]

I would say that if you think it's impossible for cops to do something wrong, you're. You're nuts. And if you think the cops are always wrong in these shootings, you're nuts.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. And there's a lot of. You think cops can never do anything wrong. You don't know any cops. They'll tell you. Yes. Yeah, we do. One of the problems is there's a.

[Jack Armstrong]

Difference between making a mistake in the blink of an eye of decision making. There's a difference between making a mistake and something that's, like, malicious. And that's the tough part of being a cop.

[Joe Getty]

All right, well, given the lack of interest in the actual law here and whether the shooting was actually justified, I probably spent more time than I should have in researching the actual law, specifically in Minnesota, that deals with all of this stuff. I will tell you this. Driving your car and at an officer in a way that could hurt or kill them is absolutely assault with a deadly weapon against a peace officer. The penalties are rather severe. It is unquestionably use of deadly force.

[Jack Armstrong]

But I saw that. I saw that portrayed in one of the lefty news outlets yesterday as, like, rolling their eyes. Like, courts have determined that using your car, driving your car forward with an officer in front of you is assault with a deadly weapon. Like, that's just nuts to make that.

[Joe Getty]

What?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

What?

[Jack Armstrong]

How's a car not a deadly weapon?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Wow. Okay. So then you get into the law governing the police use of deadly force in Minnesota. And I don't know exactly how that intersects with federal law, since it was federal law enforcement's on a federal mission. But here's the key point. A peace officer may use deadly force only when necessary to protect the officer or another person from imminent death or great bodily harm, or. And here's the key part, to protect, arrest or prevent the escape of a person the officer reasonably believes has committed or attempted a felony. Involving deadly force and the officer reasonably believes the person will cause death or great bodily harm if not immediately apprehended. That's what needs to be looked at and adjudicated and thought about carefully.

[Jack Armstrong]

A friend of the show who is in law enforcement and who has friends in ICE texted me last night where I was going to bed about the multiple crimes she had committed throughout the day. If you're going to be technical about it before you even get to the card there, and that's so maybe we can talk about that a little bit later. We got Mailbag on the way and lots of stuff to talk about. Holy crap.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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Drivers live for race day, but for small business owners, every day is race day. That's why going pro with Lenovo Pro matters one on one advice. IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors keep your business on the right track. Business goes Pro with Lenovo Pro Sign up for free at lenovo. Com Pro Lenovo Lenovo.

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[Jack Armstrong]

We might have $50 a barrel oil as far as the eye can see now that we've taken Venezuela. Based on a couple of news reports out today and Trump's plans over the next couple of years, that'd be something.

[Joe Getty]

Yes, that would be great and terrible.

[Jack Armstrong]

Gas will be pretty cheap except for in California. Not good for the electric car industry. That's all kinds of interesting ripples from this.

[Joe Getty]

Oh yeah, not good for anybody in the energy industry and there's a hell of a lot of people like that. Anyway, more on that to come. Here's your freedom hating quote of the day. Sort of.

[Jack Armstrong]

Kind of.

[Joe Getty]

I'm departing from the theme. It's a great quote from Friedrich Hayek about the term social justice, which he believed was a piece of deceptive news speak straight out of Orwell used to advance large scale injustice. Sounds like justice.

[Jack Armstrong]

Seems like it to me. Most cases.

[Joe Getty]

Oh yeah, 100%. And here's what Hayek said. Social justice does not belong to the category of error, that phrase, but to that of nonsense. Like the term moral stone. It's nonsense. The term moral just or social justice. There's either justice or injustice. Social justice is Marxism. Mailbag.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's a good point.

[Joe Getty]

Drop us a note. Mailbagarmstrongetti.com is the email address. Once again, Mailbag. Armstrongandgetty.com this is a reference to our three segment one of yesterday's show. Is that right? Or is it hour four? Was it the nine o' clock hour we discussed that fascinating old timey bar entertainment in New Orleans. Hour four, segment one. Thank you Katie. This is on the topic of whether Brigitte McCrone is a man or not. I think they should have Brigitte Macron do a ham kick live on the television. That's all I have. Tyler. P.S. great show. P.S. great email.

[Jack Armstrong]

Tyler learned about a bar in New Orleans who used to have something called the ham kick. That's who it was famous for.

[Joe Getty]

You gotta listen to yesterday's show. January 7th, hour four okay, Armstrong, you Getty on Demand is the podcast. You can get it anytime you want. You ought to subscribe. Moving along. Another J in San Jose right here, guys. I'm beginning to warm to Trump's hemisphere doctrine because it's really back to basic strategy. Historically speaking, our hemisphere has every natural resource we need. Big oceans as moats, no rare earth problems. We just need to mine our own. No oil problem, no agricultural deficits. The US Is already very wealthy and we carry the biggest stick. If you could pick one. This is the better hemisphere for many reasons. We value freedom. There are many countries that are lucky to be living in our sphere of influence. Trump is chasing the rats out of Rome and clearly drawing lines about who's in charge on this side of the rock. That's why he's about right about Greenland. Also not because of rats. It's there to protect the flank. Timey self interest following. I tend to agree. We can discuss more later. Slow news day, huh? Does anybody care about protesters anymore? Tim Waltz's people want to burn their city down. Who are we to argue with that? Can't say whether the shootings justified or not. Don't have all the facts, and I don't know the law concerning the use of deadly fourth force. These people don't want facts. They hate Trump and ice F you and your facts. Can we talk about Iran some more? Yes, and we will talk about Iran and the shooting next hour, but I want to use that to set this up. Katie in L. A says, guys, I can tell you that the Iranian community in L. A around the world is on pins and needles hoping that the ayatollahs are next on Trump's list. Praying that Trump will do the same thing to them as he did to Maduro. Yes, you heard me, ignorant lefties. We want the US to come in and save our country from the clutches of evil dictators.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't think we're probably going to do that. A rendition of the Ayatollah. But he may fall just at the hands of his own people.

[Joe Getty]

Finally, this from Eric red dye, number 40 Smith in Astoria, Oregon. Dear guys, I must object to your continued jeremiads. Excellent use of the term against so called ultra processed foods. A poorly defined, unscientific category of yummy eats that are unfairly maligned. For shame, take the humble Cheeto derived from a wartime effort in 1943 to dehydrate Wisconsin cheese so we could send tasty snacks to our boys fighting Tojo and Hitler.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is he claiming the Cheetos good for you? Is it good for you or is it okay for you?

[Joe Getty]

He's claiming it's American Chat. Armstrong and Getty.

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[Joe Getty]

So here's the idea.

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[Joe Getty]

This is an Iheart podcast.

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