Find a Better Angel

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand – "Find a Better Angel"

Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Guests/Panelists: Scott Jennings (CNN contributor), clips from Charlie Kirk, Andy Ngo (via article references), MSNBC coverage

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Overview

This episode centers on the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, a prominent conservative activist, who was shot during an event in Utah. Armstrong, Getty, and Jennings reflect on the killing's personal, political, and cultural impacts, condemning political violence and discussing the reactions across the media and society. The episode scrutinizes how the media covered the event, explores the roots and consequences of political hatred, and ponders the disturbing role of online radicalization and youth desensitization. Notable soundbites and reporting from the shooting, including MSNBC’s controversial coverage and public/pundit responses, are analyzed in depth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shock and Disbelief Over Charlie Kirk's Assassination

• Armstrong and Jennings open with expressions of disbelief, referencing the recent spate of political violence against conservative figures.

• Both reflect somberly on the personal tragedy for Kirk's family and caution against dehumanizing even ideological opponents.

  • Quote:
    "Now they shot Charlie. And I'm not sure it's safe to be an outspoken conservative walking around in America right now."
    – Jack Armstrong (00:41)

• Political violence, regardless of the victim's character, is seen as a threat to democratic society.

  • Quote:
    "If we allow political violence... it's going to destroy our country."
    – Jack Armstrong (01:51)

2. Reaction & Responsibility in Media Coverage

• The hosts critique sections of media for victim-blaming, referencing MSNBC's coverage and the immediate firing of commentator Matthew Dowd for suggesting Kirk incited his own fate.

  • Memorable Exchange:
    "When he said the whole a supporter shooting his gun off, I thought that's just stupid. I didn't know he'd get end up getting fired like bye bye."
    – Jack Armstrong (13:55)
  • Quote:
    "Please note the repeated use of the term hate speech."
    – Scott Jennings (15:46)

• They commend other outlets (notably ABC News) for treating the event with due gravity and warn against normalizing retribution for political speech.

3. The Radicalization of Public Discourse

• Jennings draws parallels between the rhetoric from certain ideological extremes and historical patterns of Marxist revolutions, suggesting that dehumanizing opponents sets the stage for violence.

  • Quote:
    "One thing about Marxists is ... if you are successful in calling out their lies, they will kill you."
    – Scott Jennings (03:36)

• The episode reviews hateful online reactions, with some activists and Twitter users applauding the killing, which the hosts find profoundly troubling.

  • Quote:
    "To hear the whole package cheered by activists and young people... makes me fear for their souls."
    – Scott Jennings (01:54)

4. Examining Charlie Kirk’s Actual Rhetoric

• The hosts play a Charlie Kirk exchange with a transgender college student, illustrating his measured, empathetic approach – directly rebutting claims of "hate speech."

  • Clip:
    "I want you to be very cautious putting drugs into your system... my prayer for you... I actually want to see you be comfortable in how you were born."
    – Charlie Kirk (05:30)
  • Comment:
    "That's the hate speech you hear the left talking about."
    – Scott Jennings (06:15)

• They lament the closing of debate in campus and media environments, arguing that disagreement is equated with hate, leading to dangerous justifications for political violence.

5. Anatomy of the Attack & Investigation Updates

• They recap the investigation's developments:

  • The shooter was captured on video, the weapon found, and evidence suggests a young, college-aged male suspect.
  • Details emerge that ammunition was engraved with "transgender" and "antifa/anti-fascist" slogans (per The Wall Street Journal).
    • Quote:
      "Investigators found ammunition engraved with expressions of transgender and anti fascist ideology..."
      – Scott Jennings (21:30)

• Discussion on whether the timing of Kirk’s remarks about transgender mass shootings and the attack is coincidental or direct causation.

6. The Dangers of Internet Misinformation and Radicalization

• The Internet rapidly misidentifies suspects and disseminates rumors.
• Past incidents of misinformation (e.g., Sacramento Bee falsely reporting that Kirk called for lynchings) are highlighted for their potential to drive unstable individuals to violence.
  • Quote:
    "If you hear that and believe it... You could justify your physical, your political violence in your mind especially if you're not completely mentally healthy."
    – Jack Armstrong (37:57)

7. Political and Societal Response to Violence

• Bipartisan condemnation of the assassination is noted, but the hosts question whether it's sufficient to lower the national temperature.

• They stress that violence, even committed against ideological adversaries, is abhorrent and that empathy must extend to all.

  • Quote:
    "You have no soul. You're a bad person. Perhaps you were led to being a bad person by the people who are supposed to educate you."
    – Scott Jennings (17:23)

• Governor Spencer Cox of Utah is commended for unequivocally labeling the murder as a political assassination and calling for unity.

  • Clip:
    "I want to be very clear that this is a political assassination."
    – Gov. Spencer Cox (35:06)

8. Youth Desensitization and The Spread of Graphic Content

• Both Armstrong and the show’s producer recount their teen sons having already seen graphic footage of the murder circulating among classmates, noting how youth are desensitized due to constant exposure to violence online.

  • Quote:
    "Our kids had seen this multiple times at school... everybody was passing it around and watching it. And how disturbed did your son seem to be by it? ...my son was. Seemed a pretty blase about it."
    – Jack Armstrong (26:43)

• The panel reflects on the gradual versus immediate exposure to graphic material between previous generations and today’s youth, relating studies on military desensitization to the possible social consequences for civilian kids.

  • Quote:
    "Desensitization has an effect."
    – Scott Jennings (31:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Political Condemnation:
  "Every single man, woman and child in society must be vehemently against [political violence]."
  – Scott Jennings (10:36)
• On Media Accountability:
  "To NBC's credit, they fired Him, I mean, like within hours... That will get the attention of other pundits..."
  – Jack Armstrong (16:50)
• On Empathy for Adversaries:
  "If somebody were to shoot [Gov. JB Pritzker] in the throat, I would be horrified by that. Just horrified. Horrified."
  – Scott Jennings (17:57)
• On Teaching Kids About Tragedy:
  "The days of a tragic news event happening and then you deciding how you want to talk to your kids about it are over... They're gonna get all of the worst aspects of it..."
  – Jack Armstrong (27:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Discussion of the assassination, immediate reactions: 00:28 – 02:56
• Charlie Kirk’s campus exchange on transgender issues (audio): 04:58 – 06:15
• Media criticism, MSNBC, and Matthew Dowd’s firing: 12:33 – 17:23
• Investigation updates and ideological clues: 21:27 – 22:51
• Youth desensitization discussion: 26:43 – 32:03
• Governor Cox’s statement on political assassination: 34:54 – 35:27
• Reflections on Andy Ngo and dangerous disinformation: 36:41 – 38:12

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Tone & Concluding Reflections

The episode maintains a serious, sometimes somber tone, with moments of exasperation and righteous anger at extremism and political violence—balanced with clear concern for the wellbeing of society and young people. The hosts repeatedly call for compassion, reason, and the rejection of violence as a political tool.

The episode closes with the hosts expressing uncertainty about solutions but unwavering clarity on the moral imperative to condemn political assassinations and restore decency in public life.

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For listeners wanting the essence of the episode: Armstrong & Getty unpack the tragic murder of Charlie Kirk, sharply rebuke political violence and media irresponsibility, and advocate for a "better angel" in American public life—while grappling with the troubling social forces that led to this dark moment.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Joe Getty]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Scott Jennings]

I'll be honest with you, I am.

[Jack Armstrong]

In utter disbelief at this. I sat in this room last summer the night they shot the President.

[Scott Jennings]

And.

[Jack Armstrong]

Now they shot Charlie. And I'm not sure it's safe to be an outspoken conservative walking around in America right now.

[Scott Jennings]

That's Scott Jennings, frequently seen on cnn. He was a friend of Charlie Kirks.

[Jack Armstrong]

I went to Mark Halperin's, whatever he calls his thing he does live on YouTube shortly after it happened. Before it haven't even had been announced that Charlie Kirk had died and Mark Halperin barely could get through a sentence. He had interviewed him yesterday and they're close friends and had been with his wife and kids just like hours, you know, before this happened. And there's a lot of people with really good things to say about Charlie Kirk as just an individual human.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Worth mentioning because, you know, there should be some. You should get some credit for being a decent person and loving dad and all that sort of stuff. But even if he weren't, even if he was, you know, the whole young dad, 31, married, kids devoted, blah, blah, that is, makes it awful. But if it was an 80 year old single guy who was actually kind of a jerk, it's still gonna destroy our country.

[Scott Jennings]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

If we allow political violence.

[Scott Jennings]

Oh, but to hear the whole package cheered by activists and young people, the, the assassination of the young man, it's just it, it makes me fear for their souls. And I don't mean on a, on a, in a biblical way, whether they can be salvaged. I think there can be some deprogramming of kids who've been taught to hate by the adults we trusted to educate them. But I don't honestly know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Speaking of which, a quick update on, on the crime itself, the assassination itself and the search for the killer, because it is a almost unheard of situation where you have an assassination and they have no idea who did it or where they are. That doesn't usually happen with high profile assassinations. The FBI announced not that long ago they found the gun. They have a good video of the dude. It's a young college age man and so they will catch him. I'd be shocked.

[Scott Jennings]

There's, there's no need, there's no hurry to leap to conclusions. But that does sound more and more like indoctrination rather than, you know, just Plain insanity. Anyway, we'll find out. It's. It's worth noting that some of the most vehement, hateful rhetoric about Charlie Kirk came from the radical gender side of things, which is just part of postmodernism, neo Marxism, etc. And we've explained that and talked about that before, and we will again, I'm sure. But they despised the guy, partly mostly because he was an eloquent and compassionate defender of a position that contradicted theirs completely. And one thing about Marxists is they will. They will lie and lie and lie, and then if you are successful in calling out their lies, they will kill you. And all you have to do is look at, like, every Marxist revolution in the history of mankind, certainly 19th century on. It happens all the time. There are various people involved in the revolution, and then one of them goes against whoever has the power. They're branded a counter revolutionary and put up against the wall. And as they're executing, you know, whatever Trotsky or whoever you want, Robespierre was.

[Jack Armstrong]

Guillotined, Che Guevara, whatever.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. In Cuba, as they're up against the wall, they're thinking, counter revolutionary. That's hilarious. I was standing right next to you during the revolution. Well, that's the way it. So that's just the way Marxism operates. Having said that, getting back to the hatred of the radical left Alphabet community for Charlie Kirk. Here is Charlie on a college campus talking to a quote, unquote transgender person.

[Transgender Male Interviewee]

I just want to say I'm a transgender male. What age should kids be able to get things like hormone therapy? Because I don't know what's true, what's not.

[Charlie Kirk]

Tell me, are you comfortable telling me your story?

[Transgender Male Interviewee]

I've known that since, like, third grade, and I'm currently 19, almost 20. I've known basically since then. I didn't start going by, like, a different name until 7th and 8th grade. I just don't know, like, with the Met, like, the whole medical stuff, like, what's true, what's not, what's helpful, because I've heard so many different opinions.

[Charlie Kirk]

First of all, thank you so much for that. So I'm gonna have an opinion that very few people will ever tell you, which is I want you to be very cautious. Putting drugs into your system in the pursuit of changing body. I instead encourage you to work on what's going on in your brain first. I think what you need, first and foremost, is just a diagnosis, just someone that is going to listen to what you've gone through, listen to what else is going on my prayer for you. And again, very few will say this. I actually want to see you be comfortable in how you were born. Yeah. I know that you might not feel that way, but I think that is something that you can achieve. I think that with the right team and the right people, you don't have to wage war on your body. You can learn to love your body.

[Scott Jennings]

That's the hate speech you hear the left talking about. Charlie Kirk speaking.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, man. I mean, if we can't have discussions like that, like I've been saying since the show started, we are doomed. I flipped on msnbc, so I got the alert that Charlie Cooks had been shot. My first thought yesterday was, holy crap, this is really bad. I dial up my phone, I'm in my car. First cable news channel that is up is msnbc. That's how I ended up on it. And immediately Katie Tur and Matthew Dowd, who are common all day long, sorts of MSNBC hosts were doing a laundry list of horrible positions Charlie Kirk had held with the obvious implication that he brought this on himself. I mean, that's the reason you go through the list of the things that you think are so abhorrent. Abhorrent. Well, you just heard that conversation right there. How hateful did that sound to you?

[Scott Jennings]

Right, right.

[Jack Armstrong]

By the way, I talked about the Mark Halperin video I went to shortly thereafter. It was live and him barely able to getting through it. And he said, by the way, the discussion I just saw on MSNBC was disgusting. So he didn't think much of it. Although at least one of the people involved in that discussion got fired immediately by NBC to their credit.

[Scott Jennings]

Right, I would agree. Why don't we. We'll go ahead and pay that off in the next segment. It was as stupid as it was ugly. Notably. Anyway.

[Jack Armstrong]

Excuse me, but the almost universal condemnation of this, I mean, it is heartening. I don't think it's going to be enough, unfortunately, with the way our media works and where our culture is currently. But to have ABC News treat this the way it should have been treated last night. I thought it was. Was fantastic news.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, I would agree. I would agree it was refreshing and I hope it is a trend that continues again. I'm not sure it's enough to reach those on the fringes of society. Word from our friends at Trust and Will, you know, you need to do this. You've just been putting it off. Everybody does. That's fine. Getting an estate plan together to avoid lengthy and horrifying legal battles that can Tear families apart after you're gone or the state deciding what happens to your assets. No, create and manage a custom estate plan starting at just $199 with trust.

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Scott Jennings]

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[Jack Armstrong]

At least three specific levels of this story. You've got the, the personal of a 31 year old dad with two little kids and a wife being shot to death. I mean, if he was, you know, he ran a taco stand. That's a horrifying, horrifying tragedy. Then you've got the political violence that is becoming more commonplace in our country. And just way too many people that think political violence is justified, which is its own awful, awful story. Then you've got the angle that this murderous scumbag who they will catch probably made a significant dent in the youth conservative movement because you don't come across a Charlie Kirk every day. No, you can't easily replace people like that.

[Scott Jennings]

Well, that's one of the reasons it is so abhorrent and verboten political violence. Because often it accomplishes what the shooter wanted to.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right?

[Scott Jennings]

Right. Not always, but often. And so every single man, woman and child in society must be vehemently against it. That's the only protection against it. Anyway, MSNBC covered themselves in, in Glory yesterday, uh, in shame. We'll, we'll play some of those clips for you coming up. Uh, plus some more of Charlie Cook engaging peacefully, openly, willingly, happily with people who disagreed with him. And that's what got him murdered. Sickening.

[Jack Armstrong]

How about those poor college kids who were in the front rows who saw that with their own eyes? Oh my God. Oh, that is rough. Okay, we got a lot on the way we'd like to hear from you. Text line 415295 KFTC.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[MSNBC Reporter]

We have some breaking news from Utah that we want to get to right now. Shots fired during a speech by right wing activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University in Orem. This happened really just moments ago. Kirk was about 20 minutes into his speech when shots were fired from a nearby building. According to the university, there are reports that Kirk was hit, but as far as they know, but we're not clear on them as of right now.

[Jack Armstrong]

That was as it broke yesterday on msnbc. And nobody likes media bashing more than me, but I'd say in general the media did a really good job yesterday. I mean better than I've seen in a long time. This is not an example of that.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, the further left you got, the more sickening it was. I would agree. Things quickly went sideways. Both idiotic and disgusting and hateful. Katie Turk continuing with Matthew Dowd.

[MSNBC Reporter]

Matthew, I'm going to bring you in on this. Talk to me about the environment. You know we are there. The reports of exactly what happened are not confirmed yet. But talk to me about the environment in which a shooting like this happens.

[Matthew Dowd]

Yeah, and again, I emphasize what you just emphasized. We don't know any full details of this, that we don't know if this was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration or so we have no idea about this.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I was listening to that live yesterday actually, and he's been fired. Matthew Doughty, he's a longtime political strategist back in the day. Um, that's how he made his living. Then he turned against the Republican Party. So he became a darling of NBC. And he's a regular on Meet the Press and has been for years. And I've always hated him cause that whole turning against your party and then bad mouthing the things you in theory believed your whole life to make a living I find disgusting. And he's one of those guys. But when he said the whole a supporter shooting his gun off, I thought that's just stupid. I didn't know he'd get end up getting fired like bye bye.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, they hinted that Utah's lacks gun laws. That sort of thing happens all the time. It's just absolutely absurd. He's a soulless hack like so many of those people. They don't believe anything. But then it turned truly horrifying and illuminating about the way people like him think.

[Matthew Dowd]

He's been one of the most divisive, especially divisive younger figures in this who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to hateful thoughts lead to hateful words which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that's the environment we're in that people just, you can't stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions to take place. And that's the unfortunate environment we're in.

[Jack Armstrong]

And that's what he got fired for saying a guy especially again, even if it was a firebrand. You don't need to say that in the moments it happened. But since it was Charlie Kirk who's like the calmest, most reasonable debater you could possibly imagine to say, well he brought it on himself.

[Scott Jennings]

And please note the repeated use of the term hate speech.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. What are you talking about?

[Scott Jennings]

Merely disagreeing with the radical left. Well that's, that's the old technique. I think everybody's hip to that right now. They call everything they disagree with hate speech speech. And they also say speech is violence which then justifies violence.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, you're equating it. Well, he was shooting his mouth off so he could be shot. They all are just one and the same.

[Scott Jennings]

Well, if it was 90% sure he'd be fired after that filth he went on.

[Matthew Dowd]

This is, we're the only country that this is going on in, in this way. And we have this awful toxic stew of, of political divisive hate speech that's being pushed combined with simultaneous, combined with unbelievable access that people have to guns and guns at every level. Not just handguns or shotguns but you know, assault rifles in this and this, as I say, we're one of one in the, in the world.

[Scott Jennings]

Goodbye.

[Jack Armstrong]

To NBC's credit, they fired Him, I mean, like within hours of that. So, yeah, good for them. And, and that will get the attention of other pundits who realize, oh, I guess you just can't say anything when somebody on the other side gets hurt or killed. Thank God. We gotta get, we gotta break out of that somehow. Like I said earlier, I can't picture some of the left wing nuts that I actually hate if I heard they got shot being happy about it. I just, I can't even imagine it now.

[Scott Jennings]

That's horrifying. You have no soul. You're a bad person. Perhaps you were led to being a bad person by the people who are supposed to educate you. Or maybe you've had trauma in your life or something, but your soul has been damaged to the point that you are a bad person if you think those things.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, even if it's not about the individual losing their life and what that means to their loved ones, what it does to our politics, how can you possibly think that's a step in the right direction? You're nuts if you think somebody being gunned down from the other side is going to advance the country.

[Scott Jennings]

JB Pritzker stood up and decried political violence, then said, it's Donald Trump and his rhetoric that causes this sort of stuff. It was just. This is. Speaking of people you despise. I believe JB Pritzker is an evil presence on the American scene. And if somebody were to shoot him in the throat, I would be horrified by that. Just horrified. Horrified. Anyway.

[Jack Armstrong]

The. Like I said, I feel like the mainstream media did a really good job on this. For the most part. I did not like the New York Times headline that he had at least part of the day yesterday. Charlie Kirk dies at age 31 dies.

[Scott Jennings]

Wow. Boy, they try hard, don't they? Even when there's nothing there, they try to find a way.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm just used to the fact that of course he was called right wing or ultra right wing activist, whereas if somebody of the far left were assassinated, you would just be a. An activist, right?

[Scott Jennings]

Sure. Speaker. A politician. Yeah, yeah. But I'm used to what? Of the videos being showed over and over again on social media. Jack and I have somewhat differing opinions on this, but when it comes to kids, I think we're 100.

[Jack Armstrong]

God. And you talk and there's no stopping that. Yeah, so we'll talk about that coming up. Stay tuned.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Police Reporter]

Police did not give any specifics other than to say that there's surveillance footage of a person wearing all black that they are studying. They believe that the shot that killed Kirk was fired from a higher location than the venue where Kirk was speaking. There was some confusion earlier today because an elderly man was taken into custody in the moments after the attack. We are told it was determined that he is not the shooter and has been cleared.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, if you were bouncing around on social media yesterday trying to get the latest, there were some pictures going around of this old guy they had down on his hands and knees and that he was the shooter and turned out he was not at all.

[Scott Jennings]

And of course the Internet did what the Internet does and it was analyzing it and attributing motives to him and how he came to decide that was a good idea when it wasn't him at all. And, and it's worth taking this breaking news with a bit of a grain of salt. Although I would point out that the Wall Street Journal, which is among the soberest publications going, has a source that they believe is credible enough to print this.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is big. Listen to this. Pay attention.

[Scott Jennings]

Investigators found ammunition engraved with expressions of transgender and anti fascist ideology inside the rifle that author was used in the fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk, according to an internal law enforcement bulletin and a person familiar with the investigation.

[Jack Armstrong]

And when they say anti fishes fascist, that would be antifa, right?

[Scott Jennings]

Right, Exactly. And they are not anti fascist. They are radical leftists. They cover their horrors by claiming they're antifascist, they're anti anything but them. The older model model 30 caliber hunting rifle was discovered in the woods near the scene of the shooting, wrapped in a towel with a spent cartridge still in the chamber. The sources said there are also unspent rounds in the magazine, all with wording on them.

[Jack Armstrong]

So, first of all, this has become a thing, I guess, these nut job murderers, like the guy who murdered the healthcare CEO, writing things on their ammunition.

[Scott Jennings]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's an interesting aspect of the modern crazy assassin. The Wall Street Journal is a very serious publication, and especially in this moment, I would think there was not a chance they would put that out unless they believed it were true. It does seem a little too perfect. I mean, if I were hearing it from anywhere else, I would think, yeah, this is one of those things that somebody put out.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, I know what you mean. The fact that it's an internal law enforcement bulletin and a person familiar with the investigation substantiating it. And it's also, I think it's significant that Charlie Kirk was discussing transgender recent mass murderers.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's what I was going to.

[Scott Jennings]

Mention when he was killed. And those people, the radical gender crowd hates him more vehemently than anyone.

[Jack Armstrong]

So Jason Chaffetz, if. I don't know if you remember him, but he was a pretty prominent house member from Utah before he retired quite a few years back, and then he became a Fox commentator. Has his own show and everything. But he was there close to Charlie Kirk when the shooting happened. He was at the event. And so he was on Fox right away, obviously highly disturbed because he was close enough to see what happened. Um, he said somebody had asked a question about transgender and mass shootings right at the time when the shot rang out and he was connecting the two. Now, it seems unlikely, I suppose it's possible, but if the guy was 600ft away, could he hear the specific question and did he know that question was coming? If somebody didn't ask that question, was he not going to shoot him? I'm just finding it hard to believe that they're connected.

[Scott Jennings]

Well, they had a pretty good pa, so I got to believe, yeah, he could hear him. But the idea that he was there debating whether to shoot the guy or not, or waiting till something particularly objectionable came up, that seems like a stretch.

[Jack Armstrong]

So it's just an awful coincidence evidence.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. Yeah, in a way, yeah. It's also. It was absolutely certain that that topic would come up at a Charlie Kirk event, whether the. The radical gender theory crowd and indoctrinating kids or specifically transgender shooters. I mean, that was like a 100 chance.

[Jack Armstrong]

If you. If you don't know Charlie Kirk's act and you hear anybody talking about how hateful he was, most likely what they're talking about is trans issue stuff.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And if you're on the other side of the trans thing, that you are branded immediately as a hateful, awful, violence is speech bigot sort of person.

[Scott Jennings]

Right. Even though virtually nobody on earth advocated the radical left gender position ten years ago. Nobody. Now, anybody who says, can we wait a minute and talk about this? Is branded as a vicious hater who commits violence through their words and therefore is deserving of violence.

[Jack Armstrong]

So executive producer Hansen and I both had the same disturbing thing. Hanson, do you want to come tell the story of how it unfolded on the air? Do you just want me to characterize for you? You just want me to tell it? So Hansen's version is a little worse than mine because his son is younger than mine, but it's bad all the way around. So I was picking up my sophomore in high school from school yesterday at 2:15. This wasn't that long after this horrifying event occurred and we knew that Charlie Kirk was dead. Hansen was picking up his 13 year old and both of us were dealing with, well, we gotta, you know, we gotta tell our kids that this awful thing happened and couch it in the way you want to couch it as a parent to, to a youth that age, et cetera, et cetera. We both found out immediately, oh yeah, I've seen the video, the whole video, the worst video, the close up video that shows, you know, the worst of it. Our kids had seen this multiple times at school because, you know, anybody that's got a smartphone could access it and everybody was passing it around and watching it. And how disturbed did your son seem to be by it? What bothered me is my son was. Seemed a pretty blase about it. Hanson, was he rattled or not? I don't know if that makes any difference, but I just. This is a separate topic really, because our kids have access to all this just extreme sex and violence all the time that we have no control over as parents anymore.

[Scott Jennings]

That is extremely disturbing, I'd say, when you put it like that. I remember as a teenager that there were the Faces of Death videos that were pretty popular and I, I didn't enjoy them at all. The one time I was exposed to one, it's absolutely horrifying. Other people were grimly fascinated by them. And they didn't all grow up to be serial killers. I think it's a very person by person reaction, depending on your level of empathy or what have you. But the way you put it that the kids are just exposed to, you know, filth of every sort, willy nilly. I mean, never mind the Charlie Kirk Horror, that's just, that's, that's not good.

[Jack Armstrong]

But. So today's 9, 11. You know, the days of, of a tragic news event happening and then you deciding how you want to talk to your kids about it are over. Unless you're like there at the moment the news event occurs with them. They're gonna get all of the worst aspects of it and the untrue stuff and the fake videos and everything else before you even get to them.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

That'S rough.

[Scott Jennings]

I wish I had a single idea what to tell you. And if you're thinking, well, my kid doesn't have a smartphone, well, everybody around, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Your point about they didn't all grow up to be serial killers is absolutely true. Is it an age thing you don't fully understand? I mean, clearly we all know this because we were all young at one point, a long, long time ago. You develop a full understanding of what it means to be a 31 year old dad killed in front of your little kids. When you're older and you become a mom or dad and have kids, you just don't quite have the same understanding of it when you're young. That's just, you know, that's just the state of being a human. So is there no harm, no foul then? Like, I have watched movies with my son that are pretty edgy, violence wise, and these are like, what's the big deal? Like, he's heard about Pulp Fiction or whatever and then we watch it and he's like, what? This is supposed to be a big deal. He's so desensitized to like this sort of thing. He can't be like, he's like bored with it.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, I don't think that's healthy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Can't be.

[Scott Jennings]

No. And, and there's not like a 100 correlation between, you know, that feeling about violence and obviously committing acts of violence or what have you. But I, I've made reference to Dave Grossman's fabulous book on killing more than once. And the one aspect of that book that's absolutely undeniable is that the, the armies through history, particularly since, you know, firearms became the arms and people outside the military have no idea of this. The actual percentage of your, say, infantrymen who will point a gun at an enemy and pull the trigger is low. It's not even close to 100%. I don't remember the numbers. And it changed conflict to conflict. But it was like maybe half, maybe half of human beings can overcome their horror at killing another human being and.

[Jack Armstrong]

Actually pull that trigger even when they might be wanting to kill you.

[Scott Jennings]

Correct, yeah. And the way militaries, including the United States military, which was one of, one of the leaders in this, the way they got much more effective at that and desensitized these, you know, boys and men and shopkeepers and whomever else who was put in the position of being a soldier was. They made, they went away from like bullsey and non human targets and they slowly but surely introduced people to, you are shooting at a human being and they had them do it over and over and over again, literally desensitizing them to the idea of, oh my God, I'm shooting at a person. And that got them to be more effective soldiers. And you need effective soldiers, particularly if you're on the side of good. So I'm not against this. In fact, the fact that I'm for it, I think makes me a fairly honest broker in telling you desensitization has an effect.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, even if it's not, it's going to make it more likely our kids are out there being killers, which, you know, we haven't seen.

[Scott Jennings]

It takes a lot more than that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Just the political side of you're not as affected by this sort of thing would be bad because you should be very affected by this. Yeah, I know I am.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Michael, you had a point.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. What Joe said though, slowly but surely.

[Jack Armstrong]

When we grew up, we were, we went in steps, you got a little more violent and a little more profanity, a little bit more nudity.

[Scott Jennings]

Now it all comes at one time.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. And that, well, I mean that's, that's the classic thing they talk about porn. Why it's so awful for people. Your, your brain adjusts to various things and then you need something more extreme to get the same reaction out of you. Well, in this case, if the, the reaction you want with the porn is, you know, you get turned on. In this case, the reaction we want is people being horrified, oh my God, this person was killed. What can we do in our politics to make it less likely somebody is gunned down? But if your reaction is, well, then nobody's going to do anything.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. I wish I had something eloquent to say at this point, but I'll bet.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'll bet, I mean, since it happened for both Hanson and I'll bet this was a common thing all across the country. Parents who had seen the video or aware of the video, and then you find out your kids have seen it multiple times before you even get to them. That's, that's rough. I don't know what they're. I don't, I don't suppose there's any change in that. I mean, I can't imagine what it would be.

[Scott Jennings]

So if you're just joining us, I think we're going to fairly soon, certainly next hour. Kind of rewind to the beginning again and play more of Charlie Kirk doing what he does did, which was say, hey, we disagree but we can talk. Let's talk. And for that he was assassinated. And some reactions from the right and left.

[Jack Armstrong]

If this Wall Street Journal report turns out to be true, that this was an antifa sort of trans. What would you call that trans warrior sort of person, that's going to be a big political story. Also.

[Scott Jennings]

Where this goes, nobody knows.

[Jack Armstrong]

No.

[Scott Jennings]

God help us.

[Jack Armstrong]

All right, stay tuned.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Scott Jennings]

This is a dark day for our state. It's a tragic day for our nation. And I want to be very clear that this is a political assassination.

[Jack Armstrong]

The very, very impressive governor Spencer Cox of Utah yesterday who ended up being quite the voice in the midst of this tragedy, but pointing out, yes, this is very clearly a political assassination. You cannot be okay with political assassinations no matter what. There's no getting around that.

[Scott Jennings]

Right? Agreed. 100%. Some more of Charlie Kirk in his messaging, his ideas evangelist for the open exchange of ideas without fear in America. He was murdered for that. Andy? No, the journalist who has been in the crosshairs of the radical transgender crowd and antifa for ages. He was beaten down. He gets death threats all the time. As he makes clear in another article we might get to. But he says a reminder that trans activist Anthony Aaron Reed has been targeting Charlie Kirk for years and sicking his radicalized deranged trans followers on him and those involved with Turning Point usa. Oh if you're just tuning in law enforcement sources are saying and have shared with each other in writing. I've seen it that the unused ammunition in the murderer's rifle had various and anti fashioned antifa and pro trans words scratched into the ammunition. For what it's worth read is popular with the trans extremists including the Zizian trans death cult which you may recall was talking about. I found Reed's content uploaded on the cult leaders blog.

[Jack Armstrong]

We wouldn't be, we wouldn't be running with this conversation because the speculation like this sort of thing is irresponsible. But the Wall Street Journal reporting it, I gotta believe they are very solidly believe that this is true or they wouldn't put it out there.

[Scott Jennings]

And I've actually read the actual law enforcement memo too. It's, it's authentic. Anyway, so this, this person that Andy no just mentioned back in 2023 he reported the Antifa violence at UC Davis which you may or may recall in California was incited with the help of disinformation pusher slash serial hoaxer Aaron Reed, formerly known as Anthony Reed Reed spread the lie that Charlie Kirk called for lynchings to millions on Twitter. And the Sacramento Bee by the way published that lie.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God.

[Scott Jennings]

Back in 23.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God.

[Scott Jennings]

Saren Reed posted. Charlie Kirk, CEO of Turning Point USA is openly calling for the lynchings of transgender individuals. Says that transgender people should be dealt with like men did in the 50s and 60s. Here's the latest major conservative calling for violence against us Never happened. Not a word. And yeah, the Sacramento Bee publicized that.

[Jack Armstrong]

And obviously if you hear that and believe it and why wouldn't you believe something that's in a major newspaper? You could justify your physical, your political violence in your mind especially if you're not completely mentally healthy.

[Scott Jennings]

They later issued a correction did the Sacramento Bay.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that is unbelievable.

[Scott Jennings]

Andy no also wrote In November of 20th I made the decision to leave not only Portland, Oregon, my home, but the United States altogether. I had survived an antifa Mob beating in 2019, but the following 17 months brought a flood of death threats that escalated in frequency and severity. Most were vague, but some were chillingly specific from people who claimed to be local who knew where I lived. Antifa had posted my parents address online and who sent photos of the guns they intended to kill me with. I reported dozens of these arrests to Portland police. Not one led to an arrest.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's incredible. And, and not surprising both there. There's quite a bit of audio out there of Charlie Kirk and we are going to play more of him arguing with college kids because it's so damned interesting a little bit later. But there's a lot of audio about that. Him talking about the death threats he got. I mean, he knew how many people out there, crazy people were out, were out to get him. He and his wife. Doesn't make it any less awful.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. Wow. The number of activists saying good job, that bullet had a good day is just shocking.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, God, that's disturbing. Okay, we got a lot more on the way. I hope you can stay with us.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an I Heart podcast.