Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Going After the Proxies. Gordon Chang Talks to A&G
Date: April 10, 2026
Host: Armstrong & Getty
Guest: Gordon Chang (Author & Columnist)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Armstrong & Getty welcome renowned China expert and commentator Gordon Chang for an incisive discussion on current U.S.-China relations amid geopolitical tensions. The conversation explores China’s stance on the conflict in the Gulf, Xi Jinping’s sweeping military purges, U.S. foreign policy under President Trump, and the strategy of targeting China's proxies. The hosts and Chang also reflect on the big picture of China's evolving global role and prospects for its political system.

Key Topics & Insights

1. China’s Perspective on the Gulf Conflict

• Chinese Response: The episode opens with examination of a strong statement from the Chinese government regarding military escalation and the Strait of Hormuz crisis.
  • Guest’s View: Chang argues China sees President Trump as willing to use force, but they may still try to back him down. Iran's violation of the ceasefire will test if Trump is willing to impose costs.
  • Quote:
    "They're seeing that President Trump is determined that he is willing to use force and they believe that they can back him down."
    — Gordon Chang [01:53]

2. China and the Risk to Taiwan

• Host’s Question: Does China see an opportunity to move on Taiwan due to U.S. distraction in the Gulf?
• Chang’s Assessment: Xi Jinping's purges in the military have crippled Chinese military leadership, making a direct Taiwan invasion unlikely now. Still, provocations could lead to conflict elsewhere.
  • Quote:
    "The risk that people think about all the time, which is the one you mentioned, is, I think, off the table because of Xi Jinping's purges."
    — Gordon Chang [02:31]

3. Strait of Hormuz and Economic Leverage

• Host’s Query: Is China taking notes on Iran’s use of shipping lanes as economic blackmail?
• Chang’s Take: Iran’s tolls (payable in Chinese yuan) disrupt global trade and help China promote de-dollarization. The U.S. could take a decisive stance by blocking ships that pay such tolls.
  • Quote:
    "Iran is helping China by de dollarizing the world by requiring the toll be paid in China's currency, the renmindi."
    — Gordon Chang [03:28]

4. Xi Jinping’s Military Purges

• Host: Requests context on military purges’ significance.
• Chang: Explains deep infighting and instability within China’s military due to Xi’s anti-corruption purges. The situation is opaque but shows serious internal turmoil.
  • Quote:
    "There is all out fighting among the generals and admirals...the regime has become even more opaque over the last three or four years."
    — Gordon Chang [04:32]

5. Trump’s Current China Strategy

• Host: Notes a shift in Trump’s strategy to a more conciliatory tone, differing from his first term.
• Chang: Highlights that Trump seems eager for a meeting with China, which may project weakness. Advises the U.S. to reverse roles and make China chase dialogue to better use American leverage.
  • Quote:
    "That makes it much harder for him to accomplish what he wants with China...We have chased the Chinese for dialogue, and that has inflated their already big sense of self importance."
    — Gordon Chang [05:33]

6. Enduring U.S. Strategic Weakness

• Hosts & Chang: Agree the U.S. has historically shown weakness in dealings with China, hoping integration and generosity would lead to change, which has not succeeded.
  • Quote:
    "They have seen even strong American presidents act weak towards China...What we're doing right now, it has no chance of success."
    — Gordon Chang [06:30]

7. The “Big Picture” in U.S.-China Relations

• Host: Asks what the media misses about U.S.-China relations.
• Chang: Praises Trump’s strategy of targeting China’s global proxies (Venezuela, Cuba, Iran), weakening China indirectly. He also points out that China’s economic pivot away from consumption will ultimately harm its stability.
  • Quote:
    "President Trump is going after China's proxies...China is basically losing its pause. So this is really good for us."
    — Gordon Chang [07:31]

8. Chang’s Predictions & Reflections on China’s Future

• Host: References Chang’s first book, asking how his prediction of Communist Party collapse has aged.
• Chang: Admits his predicted timeline was off (missed the impact of 2008 financial crisis stimulus), but insists the regime is currently very fragile, especially economically. Trump could exploit this fragility if he wishes.
  • Quote:
    "China is right now at a very fragile point and President Trump can exploit that if he chooses to do so."
    — Gordon Chang [09:39]

Notable Quotes

• "They're seeing that President Trump is determined that he is willing to use force and they believe that they can back him down."
  — Gordon Chang [01:53]
• "The risk that people think about all the time, which is the one you mentioned, is, I think, off the table because of Xi Jinping's purges."
  — Gordon Chang [02:31]
• "Iran is helping China by de dollarizing the world by requiring the toll be paid in China's currency, the renmindi."
  — Gordon Chang [03:28]
• "That makes it much harder for him to accomplish what he wants with China...We have chased the Chinese for dialogue, and that has inflated their already big sense of self importance."
  — Gordon Chang [05:33]
• "They have seen even strong American presidents act weak towards China...What we're doing right now, it has no chance of success."
  — Gordon Chang [06:30]
• "President Trump is going after China's proxies...China is basically losing its pause. So this is really good for us."
  — Gordon Chang [07:31]
• "China is right now at a very fragile point and President Trump can exploit that if he chooses to do so."
  — Gordon Chang [09:39]

Memorable Moments & Tone

• Candid Assessment: Chang’s critiques of both U.S. foreign policy consistency and Chinese internal dynamics are direct and unvarnished, fitting the episode’s serious, analytical tone.
• Host’s Appreciation: The hosts repeatedly affirm the unique depth of Chang’s analysis, underscoring the importance of going beyond headline news.
• Expert Distillation: Chang succinctly connects economic policy, military turmoil, and geopolitical strategy to provide a comprehensive overview rarely heard in mainstream discussion.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:53] – Chang on China’s view of Trump and Iran
• [02:31] – On the unlikelihood of a China move on Taiwan
• [03:28] – Strait of Hormuz and de-dollarization
• [04:32] – Significance of Xi’s military purges
• [05:33] – Trump’s approach and diplomatic dynamics
• [06:30] – Why the old U.S. approach to China fails
• [07:31] – Big picture: going after China’s proxies and economic impacts
• [09:39] – On the fragility of China’s regime today

For listeners seeking a nuanced, up-to-the-minute perspective on U.S.-China relations and the broader implications of current global crises, this conversation with Gordon Chang is essential: sharp, timely, and accessible to a broad audience.