How Can Queers for Palestine Possibly Exist?

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "How Can Queers for Palestine Possibly Exist?"

Release Date: August 15, 2025
Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the perplexing phenomenon of left-wing Western activists, particularly queer activists, expressing solidarity with Islamist causes such as Palestine—groups that, by their own ideology and policy, are often violently anti-LGBTQ. The hosts, drawing on arguments by writer Eli Lake and philosopher Michel Foucault, dissect the origins and consequences of the so-called "Red-Green Alliance"—the union of leftist/Marxist and Islamist ideologies. They trace this alliance back to intellectual roots in postmodern theory and critical theory, arguing that a denial of objective truth and the dominance of narrative help explain this seemingly paradoxical political coalition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent Events and Western Left Reaction

• The hosts open with a news report about Palestinian militants disguising themselves as aid workers and being targeted in Israeli airstrikes ([03:00-03:34]). Despite clear evidence of deception, prominent Western outlets—and much of the left—are skeptical that militants would use such disguises for violence.
• Insight: The hosts suggest that a culture of denial is pervasive on the political left, especially regarding jihadist tactics, due to ideological narratives.

2. The "Red-Green Alliance" Explained

• Quote: “[Eli Lake] talks about how the what's called the Red-Green Alliance... really came up during Iran's Islamic Revolution, 1978 and 1979.” ([04:28-05:01])
• "Red" refers to communists/Marxists; "green" to Islamists.
• The alignment between Western leftists and Islamist movements is described as a strategic marriage: both wish to overthrow Western civilization, even if their visions for what comes after are radically different.
• Quote: "Wait a minute. You want to overthrow Western civilization? I want to overthrow Western civilization... Well, I tell you what, how about we work together, and then when civilization's overthrown, we'll... peacefully cooperate and divide the spoils. And of course, like in every revolution, they kill each other as fast as they can." ([07:27])

3. Intellectual Roots: Foucault & Orientalism

• The French philosopher Michel Foucault, a major influence on critical theory, is highlighted as a key figure in the development of postmodern opposition to Enlightenment values.
• Foucault's support for the 1979 Iranian revolution is cited as an early example of Western intellectuals embracing reactionary Islamist movements in their critique of the West.
• Quote: "Foucault was a major intellectual influence on the late Columbia University professor Edward Said’s Orientalism, now a postcolonial study bible." ([10:09])
• Insight: The hosts argue that modern queer theory, critical race theory, and radical gender ideology all trace lineage back to anti-Enlightenment, anti-objectivity philosophies advanced by Foucault and others.

4. Critical Theory, Narrative, and Denial of Objective Truth

• Critical theory's key tenet: there is no objective truth, only competing narratives shaped by cultural power.
• This allows activists to dismiss violence against gays or women in Islamist societies as "just a Western narrative," unworthy of rebuttal.
• Quote: "The key philosophy of critical theory is that there is no objective truth… Since Western culture is dominant, it has created a narrative that says the Ayatollah Khomeini is a monster, but that’s just because they’re threatened by him. So they’re racists. They’re othering him." ([11:50-13:00])
• As a result, discussions about human rights abuses are dismissed as Western propaganda.

5. Denial, Justification, and Self-Delusion

• The hosts describe how leftist sympathies for jihadist activity rationalize even the most violent acts as understandable reactions to "oppression."
• Quote: "Look, they’re under oppression. What do you expect them to do? Yeah, and I don’t believe they raped and killed babies. No, they just… fought back against the oppressor. Self delusion." ([13:12-13:44])
• Concern: This way of thinking has become mainstream in Western academia and is influencing schools at every level.

6. Bigger Threat: Neo-Marxism and Postmodernism in the U.S.

• Quote: "I’m more worried about neo Marxism and the foothold it’s got in the United States and Western culture than I am about jihadism by a lot." ([14:17])
• The hosts view the infiltration of post-Marxist, postmodern ideology into Western culture and education as a more pressing concern than terrorism, arguing it undermines the foundations of society.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the alliance's absurdity:

  • “You got jihad in my queer studies.”
  • “You got queer studies in my jihad. Two great tastes that taste great together.” ([07:56-07:58])

• On Western left’s logic:

  • “They convince you completely of their premise that Western society... have made all other people objects in their narratives and impose their own agenda on their histories.” ([11:51])

• On critical theory's consequences:

  • “Once you have that down to your bones, then you can’t be argued off of it on the basis of me saying they… torture and kill anybody who’s gay or transgender, because I’m a Westerner, trying to lie to them, using my narrative.” ([13:00])

• On the literalness of the culture war:

  • “These effing people wrote effing books. Their effing names are on the effing spines and they effing describe precisely what they’re effing going to do. And they’re doing it precisely as they effing described.” ([14:35])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:00] - [04:28]: Introduction of the Red-Green Alliance via Eli Lake and the Gaza/Hamas deception.
• [04:31] - [07:14]: History of the alliance; the roots in the 1978-79 Iranian Revolution.
• [07:27] - [09:00]: Explaining the mutually beneficial partnership between leftists and Islamists.
• [09:00] - [11:26]: Intellectual pedigree from Foucault to Edward Said and the spread of postmodernism.
• [11:26] - [13:12]: The critical theory worldview; facts vs. narratives.
• [13:12] - [14:09]: Delusion and rationalization on the Western left.
• [14:17] - [15:08]: Neo-Marxism as a greater internal threat than foreign jihadism.

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Conclusion & Further Resources

The episode contends that the alliance of Western leftist movements with Islamist causes arises from a postmodern, critical theory rejection of objective truth and Enlightenment values. The hosts warn that this approach, increasingly dominant in Western institutions, poses a fundamental threat to the fabric of society.

Resource Suggestions:

• Cynical Theories by James Lindsay & Helen Pluckrose ([19:24])
• YouTube lectures by James Lindsay on critical theory ([19:15])

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Tone/Language:
Direct, irreverent, passionate, occasionally profane, with dark humor and pronounced skepticism toward contemporary academic orthodoxy. The hosts present complex intellectual history with blunt analogies and pop culture references, aiming to make these issues accessible and urgent.

Transcript

[Christina Quinn]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Ryan]

Your bill ladies. I got it.

[Christina Quinn]

No, I got it.

[Ryan]

Seriously, I insist.

[Christina Quinn]

I insisted first.

[Ryan]

Don't be silly.

[Christina Quinn]

You'll not be silly.

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[Ryan]

Is Ryan and I was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot games on chumbacasino.com I looked over the person sitting next to me and you know what they were doing? They were also playing Chumba Casino. Everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino's home to hundreds of casino style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere. So sign up [e-mail] to claim your free welcome bonus. That's chumbacasino.com and live the Chumba Life. Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary VGW group Void where prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply. Newly released drone video shows Palestinian militants pretending to be workers from the world's central kitchen. They travel in two cars, one marked with the flag of the humanitarian organization before they're hit by IDF airstrikes. WCK in real time were able to verify that vehicle was not connected to the organization in any way. Which means those terrorists were using that as a disguise for their terror activity inside Gaza. Israeli airstrikes targeted multiple areas of the enclave over the past 24 hours, killing dozens of Palestinian civilians. Okay, so in spite of that, it's absolutely documented, undeniable that Hamas guys were masquerading as food relief guys. NPR considers it completely impossible that they would impersonate journalists. Or at least that's what they're saying in essence. And. And those views are supported practically to a person by the American left and a lot of the left in a lot of the Western world. What the hell is going on? To quote Eli Lake, who's a brilliant writer in the west, the politics of the Gaza war feature a strange marriage between political Islam and the 21st century Western left. For instance, the Democratic Socialists of America. This is Mamdani's crew. Simultaneously support making New York a national hub for transgender medicine and want to globalize the intifada.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah, that's. That is a good point.

[Ryan]

It supports. It supports the bleeding edge of social progressive values while throwing its full support behind the fanatic fascists who filmed their mass murder of Jews and proudly posted the videos to Telegram and Lake in an absolutely fabulous piece that will post. I think you might get paywalled, but maybe not. Talks about how the. What's called the Red Green alliance among people who think about this sort of thing, how it came up. And it really came up in yes.

[Podcast Guest]

Red and who's green here?

[Ryan]

Reds is in Communists in green, the color of Hamas and radical Islam in various. Thank you for asking for the clarification to hit for the room. Anyway, a lot of this arose during Iran's Islamic Revolution, 1978 and 79. And he goes into. And it's so Interesting. The details of how Ayatollah Khomeini, who is in exile in France, started giving all sorts of really carefully controlled interviews to American and European media outlets and how they were on this PR campaign to convince the west that he's a reasonable fellow. In fact, he's really for democracy. And Lake is writing. Anybody who spent 10 minutes looking into Khomeini knew that he was a hardcore Islamist monster. You didn't even have to try to figure it out. But the left of American journalism and Western journalism and some folks, like in the Carter administration, became completely convinced and touted in the face of all of this that, no, he was actually a really good guy. Richard Falk, a Princeton professor of international law who met with Khomeini during his exile outside of Paris. Andrew Young, Jimmy Carter's ambassador to the United nations, told reporters that the Ayatollah will eventually be regarded as a saint, like this Falk, the Princeton professor. And because people were saying there were some on the right who said, look, this guy's a reactionary and a terrorist. And he said. To suppose that Ayatollah Khomeini is disassembling seems almost beyond belief. His political style is to express his real views defiantly and without apology, regardless of consequences, blah, blah, blah. Thus, the depiction of him as a fanatical reactionary and the bearer of crude prejudices seems certainly and happily false. What is also encouraging is that his entourage, of course, advisors, is uniformly composed of moderate, progressive individuals.

[Podcast Guest]

I know you and Eli Lake are about to explain to me why, but is it just as simple as, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and my enemy is me, the United States. So somebody who doesn't like us is good to. I like.

[Ryan]

Right. There's. There's more to it than that. But, yeah, the very short version of it is essentially. Wait a minute. You want to overthrow Western civilization? I want to overthrow Western civilization. You want to impose Islamism, but I want to impose Marxism. Well, I tell you what, how about we work together, and then when civilization's overthrown, we'll. We'll peacefully cooperate and divide the spoils. And of course, like in every revolution, they kill each other as fast as they can. But there's one more factor.

[Podcast Guest]

You got jihad in my queer studies.

[Ryan]

You got queer studies in my jihad. Two great tastes that taste great together. Oh, that's beautiful. Anyway, so this brings us to the connection between something I have been harping about for a very long time, as has James Lindsay and other folks. If there is one Western Progressive who illuminates the emergence of the red Green alliance. It is the French philosopher Michel Foucault, who I've mentioned several times. In 1978, Foucault was absolutely the peak of his influence. He was the post modernist whose revolution revolution revolutionizing universities with his withering critique of the Western Enlightenment and values that underpin modern liberalism. Foucault is literally anti enlightenment and he is the father of all critical theory. Okay? And I think people have a tendency to think, all right, Getty and Lindsay are paranoid or whatever, or they're a conspiracy theorist. I had a friend in high school who was Indian. He, his, his parents had emigrated from India and they were Hindus. And in visiting his house and hanging out with his family some, it became clear to me that there were figures in Hinduism that were known and revered to billions of people around the world who I'd never heard of. I would suggest to you, my friends, and you are my friends, Foucault is that for the neo Marxists, for those who would overthrow Western civilization, he is a godhead to them and you don't know his name, but trust me when I tell you it's incredibly important that you understand. So this guy was incredibly influential in the universities in the 70s, and in 1978 he was commissioned by two Italian newspapers to report, report on the Iranian revolution. And like one of those, you know, left east, you know, Time magazine guys who are visiting the Soviet Union in one of their Potemkin villages back in the 40s, say, or 50s, he couldn't stop gushing about how great the Ayatollah was, and he was going to get rid of the oppression of Western politics and Zabadabadoo. So, and this gets a little complicated, but I'll get to the simple part. Foucault was a major intellectual influence on the late Columbia University professor Edward Said's Orientalism, now a post colonialism study Bible, which critiqued how Western imperial writers made Arabs, Muslims and Easterners objects in their narratives and imposed their own agenda on their histories. Here is the great postmodernist celebrating Ayatollah Khomeini overthrowing the Western government, even though Khomeini would, would execute Foucault and his company the first chance they got. But that was the birthplace of it. And until you understand that postmodernism thing, you don't get critical theory. You don't understand what DEI is and what it's trying to accomplish. You don't understand queer theory, radical gender theory, all the, the confused adolescent girls getting Their healthy breasts removed because they're momentarily confused by, you know, adolescence and puberty and the rest of it. This is all straight back to Foucault and critical theory.

[Podcast Guest]

Clearly, this theory is true in that it is happening. I still don't get how you're not argued out of that position very quickly. If somebody says to you, you realize if you're in Iran, they would. They would murder you immediately. Oh, yeah. So I guess I better pick a different group to work with.

[Ryan]

I mean, right, different philosophy. Here's the thing. And these people are smart. I mean, they're insane, but they're smart. They convince you completely of their premise that Western society. What was that phrase? Have made all other people objects in their narratives and impose their own agenda on their histories. The key philosophy of critical theory is that there is no objective truth there. Don't even seek it. It doesn't exist. All there is is narratives. And narratives come from your culture. And since Western culture is dominant, it has created a narrative that says the Ayatollah Khomeini is a monster, but that's just because they're threatened by him. So they're racists. They're othering him. And once you have that down to your bones, then you can't be argued off of it on the basis of me saying they. They torture and then kill anybody who's gay or transgender because I'm a Westerner, trying to lie to them, using my narrative.

[Podcast Guest]

So they don't believe that jihadists would murder gay people, or they think jihadists only murder gay people because of the position we've put them in.

[Ryan]

Yeah, indirectly. Yeah, the first part. 100%. And. Or we have so dominated them and crushed their spirits and oppressed them that they're acting out in ways that they won't anymore. When the Enlightenment comes, when the Marxist revolution comes. I mean, like excusing the crimes of October 7th. You saw that directly. Look, they're under oppression. What do you expect them to do? Yeah, and I don't believe they raped and killed babies. No, they just. They. They just fought back against the oppressor. Self delusion.

[Podcast Guest]

That's a scary thing to be up against. There's way too many people that believe it.

[Ryan]

Oh, and they're in our schools, folks, our elementary schools, our high schools, and our colleges and our grad schools. That is one of the dominant philosophies, if not the dominant philosophy in our educational complex. Which is why I'm always saying it's the most important problem that faces America bigger than China. It's this century's nightmare. Jihadism.

[Podcast Guest]

Thank you man.

[Ryan]

Well, post Marxism, but cultural Marxism, postmodernism, neo Marxism, whatever you want to call it. Thank you.

[Podcast Guest]

It's interesting because back then when Mitt Romney was running for president and after 9 11, jihadism did seem like the biggest problem in the world. And it's a problem, no doubt. But I'm more worried about neo Marxism and the foothold it's got in the United States and Western culture than I am about jihadism by a lot.

[Ryan]

Right. Right. Yeah. My final word. And folks, I apologize in advance. I'm going to use a bad letter here if you think I don't know that seems kind of paranoid. These effing people wrote effing books. Their effing names are on the effing spines and they effing describe precisely what they're effing going to do. And they're doing it precisely as they effing described. End of screen.

[Podcast Guest]

Troubling.

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[Christina Quinn]

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[Ryan]

Your bill, ladies. I got it.

[Christina Quinn]

No, I got it.

[Ryan]

Seriously, I insist.

[Christina Quinn]

I said first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.

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[Christina Quinn]

Shoot.

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[Podcast Guest]

Again.

[Ryan]

If societies are brought down by their own decadence.

[Podcast Guest]

If you're interested in this stuff, man, go to YouTube and just type in James Lindsay. He's got some unbelievable YouTube videos about this that are so damn interesting.

[Ryan]

And a great place to start is, for the hundredth time, his book with Helen Pluckrow's cynical theories. It's.

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[Christina Quinn]

If you eat too many ultra processed foods, you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course about the gut microbiome. You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening to Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig in with me on practical advice for life's common challenges. Follow Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.

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[Christina Quinn]

This is an iHeart podcast.