I Don't Eat Values

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand – “I Don't Eat Values” (August 26, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode features Jack Armstrong solo-hosting as Joe Getty vacations in the UK. Jack navigates producing the show from his car due to a massive traffic incident, sharing a blend of personal stories and topical news. Major discussions center on the controversial Cracker Barrel remodel and the concept of businesses going “woke,” as well as substantial coverage of global politics—especially the Russia-Ukraine war—with expert guest Justin Logan of the Cato Institute. Other segments include current headlines, a critique of corporate culture, and a lighthearted debate about dog ownership and Cracker Barrel nostalgia.

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Main Segments & Timestamps

Opening/Traffic Debacle & Setting the Stage (00:00–04:12)

• Jack details his chaotic morning: forced to host solo and broadcasting from his car due to a fatal traffic accident on his route (“I’m solo today because Joe’s on vacation… I leave the house extra early… and the GPS goes to all red.” – Jack, 00:37).
• Katie reports, “It started with a motorcycle and a semi, and then a third vehicle got involved… all lanes got blocked… it stopped.” (02:12)

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Cracker Barrel Controversy & “Wokeness” Accusations (04:13–11:29)

The Redesign

• Jack discusses his surprise over widespread podcast and radio attention to Cracker Barrel's remodeling.
• Describes the remodeled locations as, “It looks like a McDonald’s… just booths and very minimal…” (04:25–04:41).
• Katie laments, “They took away everything we love about it, right?” (04:42).

Nostalgia & Cultural Sensitivity

• Discussion of the classic “peg game” once calling those who did poorly “ignoramus”—now replaced by more encouraging, less judgmental language: “Four, try even harder next time… No reason to be embarrassed. Try again.” (06:09–06:25).
• Jack’s take: “For decades… you’ve been calling people who can’t do the little triangle peg game an ignoramus. Everybody’s been fine with it… Now you’ve got to say keep trying. You’ll do okay, sport.” (06:31).
• Katie adds the logo change, noting, “They took the little white guy… off of it, and they’re claiming they were trying to get rid of another white figure.” (07:37).
• Jack is skeptical: “If their concern was that then once again that would be reacting to something that didn’t exist… There were not marches in the streets.” (08:01)

Business Impact

• “They lost a ton of money in the last week since this news came out…” (08:51)
• Concern that remodeling (especially switching to booths) will negatively impact Cracker Barrel’s unique family-gathering vibe.

On Cracker Barrel’s Apology

• Jack critiques the company’s non-apology after backlash: “The worst kind of apology you can ever give somebody—‘Sorry I hurt your feelings.’” (10:27)
• Katie calls it: “That’s up there with ‘Sorry you feel that way.’” (10:27)

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Headlines & News Roundup (11:52–19:10)

DeSantis vs Newsom on California’s “Number One” Status (11:52–12:34)

• Clip of Ron DeSantis listing California’s negative “number ones,” e.g., “homelessness… public defecation…” (11:52)
• “I can’t think of another state with a crap map… in San Francisco.” – Katie (12:34)

Current Headlines by Katie Green (14:39–18:54)

• Highlights include stories on Trump, legal/political news, Israel-Gaza, the National Guard, woke language at Columbia Law, DNC expenditures for Kamala Harris, and a study linking purpose to less dementia.
• Satirical headline: “John Bolton eludes FBI by blending into a herd of walruses.” (19:10)

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International Affairs: Russia-Ukraine Peace Process (20:28–31:46)

Guest: Justin Logan, Cato Institute

• On the peace process: “This round is more or less dead… On the central issue, the two sides are really far apart. Ukrainians want security guarantees… Russians want large chunks of Ukrainian territory.” (21:03)
• On diplomacy: “In this case, the Russians are brutally, gradually, incrementally winning, and they know it… Fighting is serving our interests, so we’re going to keep fighting.” (24:08)
• Big-picture consequences: “Cynical realists like me think that’s always the way international politics has been…” (26:10).
• U.S. & European roles: “Europeans are pulling and begging and pleading for the United States to commit to defend Ukraine… but we’re not going to commit troops ourselves. And that is the same bad deal Americans have been getting out of Europe for the past 65 or 70 years.” (28:44)
• Favorite quote highlighted: “Why are we the 500 million expecting the 300 million of the United States to protect us from 140 million?” – Jack quoting Donald Tusk, Poland (29:41)

Jack’s Reaction

• “That’s a smart guy, you know, and maybe part of the reason I think he’s so smart is I agree with what he’s saying.” (30:53)

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Corporate Culture & Cracker Barrel: Feedback, Denial & Disconnect (32:50–38:52)

Cracker Barrel's Response to Backlash

• Michael reads Cracker Barrel’s PR statement: “What has not changed and what will never change are the values this company was built on… hard work, family, and scratch-cooked food…” (34:52)
• Michael’s rebuke: “I don’t eat values. I eat food.” (34:52)

CEO Disconnect

• Audio of CEO highlighting “overwhelmingly positive” feedback and enthusiasm for the remodel from employees.
• Jack and Michael criticize CEOs being misled by compliment-chasing subordinates: “People who survive in companies say yes to everything and everybody knows that… as far as being out of touch with the customers, that I don’t quite get, man.” (36:46–38:04)

Symbolism Changes

• “The little old white guy sitting next to the barrel is Uncle Herschel. He will still be on the menu as… ‘he’s not going anywhere.’ He’s family.” – Katie (38:07)
• “They hid him somewhere on the menu away from the logo.” – Michael (38:18)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There’s no such thing as a minor motorcycle wreck... Every wreck on a motorcycle is horrifying.”—Joe Getty (02:25)
• “If you get it down to three pegs, you’re not so smart. Four pegs or more, you’re an ignoramus. That’s what it used to say.”—Jack (05:38)
• “Sorry I hurt your feelings means… you should have reacted differently to what I said.”—Jack (10:30)
• “I don’t care. I’m just not gonna get baited into all of these outrageous authoritarian… If you like that story, listen to something else.”—Joe (16:37)
• “I do have to acknowledge under Gavin Newsom’s leadership, California, they are number one in a lot of things… number one in public defecation.”—Ron DeSantis (11:52)
• “Why are we the 500 million expecting the 300 million of the United States to protect us from 140 million?” — [Jack quoting Donald Tusk] (29:41)
• “I don’t eat values. I eat food.” — Michael (34:52)
• “People who survive in companies say yes to everything and everybody knows that.”—Michael (37:33)

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Podcast’s Tone & Style

• Candid, irreverent, and skeptical; Jack and crew mock PR-speak, corporate decisions, and “woke” accusations, while able to pivot to serious expert discussions without losing their banter.
• Strong streak of nostalgia, skepticism about “change for change’s sake,” and willingness to call out both right and left-wing cultural overreactions.

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Additional Topics (Sprinkled Throughout)

• The importance of honest feedback up and down the chain, both in business and in media (“If I have one message today, you, the boss, need to know that the people underneath you are not being honest about your ideas.”—Michael, 39:08).
• Light-hearted banter about overfeeding pets and generational responsibility
• Promotion of upcoming guests—promise of more on AI tools for daily life and international affairs.

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Summary

A quintessential Armstrong & Getty episode blending personal mishaps, cultural critique, and global affairs. The Cracker Barrel “woke” controversy offers a comedic focal point, contrasting nostalgia with modern sensitivity, while expert analysis on global politics roots the show in substantive real-world issues. Candid discussions on leadership and honesty in organizations double as a meta-commentary on both business and media. (As ever: “I don’t eat values. I eat food.”)

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Joe Getty]

Broadcasting live.

[Jack Armstrong]

From the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Joe Getty]

I'm Strong and Getty. And now here's I'm Strong and Getty. Okay, gotcha. So apparently you did not communicate this properly live from my car, which I'll describe in just a second. So, Michael, you were not allowed in the loop on the fact that Katie was going to take it in and everything. So you probably didn't turn on her microphone and gotcha. Oh, well, what are you gonna do? So here's what happened. I'm solo today because. Joe, can you turn off the music? It's, it's annoying me. The whole, the whole day is falling apart. So I, I, I, I'm, I'm solo because Joe's on vacation. He's in Great Britain, and hopefully he'll be able to call in a little later this morning. We have a whole bunch of great guests lined up. I get up extra early to do all the extra work that you have to do when you do the show by yourself, and I leave the house extra early, like, I don't know, I'm on the road like 15 minutes earlier than I usually am, checking the GPS the whole time, make sure there's no wrecks and road is clear and free. I'm on the phone with Hanson and Michelangelo and Katie, and we're doing our pre show meeting, which we do surprisingly every morning. And while I'm on the meeting, the GPS goes to all red. And it goes from saying I'm going to be to work 15 minutes early to saying I'm going to be to work 45 minutes late. So all of a sudden, So I said, I got to get off the phone. Well, Katie looked it up. There's been a, a fatality wreck with a motorcycle. A semi truck hit a motorcycle, which is just horrifying. Is that all the detail you have so far, Katie?

[Katie Green]

Yeah, it looked like it was. It started with a motorcycle and a semi, and then a third vehicle got involved, and eventually when the second you saw red, all lanes got blocked. So, I mean, it is, it stopped.

[Joe Getty]

And we're, I realize we're on whatever, 70 stations across the country, and this doesn't have anything to do with you, but we motorcyclists, which I am really, our ears perk up when we hear about a motorcycle in a, in a wreck, because there's no such thing as a minor motorcycle wreck. It's not like there's a fender bender. You can't have A fender bender on a motorcycle wreck. Every wreck on a motorcycle is horrifying. And I ride a motorcycle, and you worry about it all the time. And so I'm trying not to be concerned about me and my traffic situation, given the fact that this guy, I was probably headed out to work on his motorcycle this morning and ended up dead, which is a horrifying story. Anyway, been sitting completely still, haven't moved a foot in a half an hour. Just now starting to move, which is fantastic. And then I don't probably just zoom back home and work from home. So I'll be on the microphone within hopefully not too many minutes. Here's the story I'm trying to wrap my head around this morning that I was excited about talking to y' all about the whole Cracker Barrel remodel. How closely have you been following this? Are you on top of this? So I, I, I was surprised how many of my favorite podcasts were talking about the Cracker Barrel remodel, because I'm a rural Midwest guy. I've eaten at cracker barrel 100 times in my life. And family goes there when we all get together for Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever. We don't eat Thanksgiving meal there, but, like, we got the whole family together and everything like that. We regularly go to Cracker Barrel. So when I found out they're remodeling, and then there was. I don't care what the logo looks like, but they were remodeling, I thought, well, I don't know. I like the way it was. But then it became just such an issue. I was listening to all these different radio shows and podcasts where people were talking about it a lot. And again, I was surprised. I didn't know as many people were into Cracker Barrel as they seem to be. Then I saw the first pictures yesterday. Have you seen the first pictures, Katie?

[Katie Green]

Yeah, it's weak.

[Joe Getty]

Well, it's, It's a completely different thing. Yeah, just a completely different thing. It's going to be. Well, it looks like a McDonald's. It's, it's booths. Well, it's, it's, it's boobs and very minimal. And it just, it looks like the inside of a McDonald's or a Wendy's or a Burger King.

[Katie Green]

One of my friends, who's a big, a big Cracker Barrel fan, said they took away everything we love about it, right?

[Joe Getty]

The whole vibe. They claim, they claim the food's going to be the same. But I, I wonder about that. But then I started hearing and have you heard this stuff about it's woke and that I. That I couldn't grasp what it was that the blowback was because cracker barrels gone. Woke. And I thought, in what sense is this woke? It just seems like they determined that they needed to come up with a more streamlined, modern look than the old timey look, which is fine. That's a business decision. I don't think they're right, but. But I don't see how it's woke. But then I finally heard today about some of the stuff they're doing, apparently. So you know the little triangle game where you have the pegs and you jump one peg over another peg to try to get it down to one peg? Is there a name for that thing?

[Katie Green]

I can't.

[Joe Getty]

I remember what it's called name, but everybody knows what it is. And that little game. And my brother, for some reason could always get down to one peg. And I never have in one of my entire life, not once. But on the old Cracker Barrel, the. On the. On the little wooden triangle, it says if you get it down to one peg, you're a genius. If you get it down to two pegs, you're pretty good. If you get it down to three pegs, you're not so smart. And then if you get it down, if you four pegs or more, you're an ignoramus. That's what it used to say.

[Katie Green]

That's awesome.

[Joe Getty]

Triangle. I know At Cracker Barrel well, now the new ones apparently, and I don't know if this is Internet rumor or it's true, but the new ones at Cracker Barrel now say one year of genus two. Pretty good. Three, keep trying. Four, try even harder next time. You know, it's that sort of thing.

[Katie Green]

Yeah, no reason to be. What this one says. No reason to be embarrassed. Try again.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, so, I mean, that is a minor thing, but if that's something they did, then yeah, they do have their eye toward the modern cultural thing. We don't want to hurt the feet. So you've been a business. Can you let me know? You probably got Wikipedia or something open there. How long is Cracker Barrel been around? My whole lifetime. So for decades and decades and decades, you've been calling people who can't do the little triangle peg game and ignoramus. Everybody's been fine with it. There've been no protests. I don't remember any marches in the street. I don't remember seeing any kids crying. And I've been to Cracker Barrel with lots of kids. Everybody seemed to be Fine. Now you've got to say keep trying. You'll do okay, sport. In fact, maybe they bring out the waitress brings out a participation participant certificate for the fact that you played the little triangle game.

[Katie Green]

So triangle game has just called the peg game. Cracker Barrel was opened in 1969.

[Joe Getty]

Okay. So it's been around my whole life.

[Katie Green]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And everybody seems to have been fine. But now they're worried about that. Now I don't know if there's any other wokeness besides that.

[Katie Green]

There is because they changed the logo and they took the little white guy that's sitting next to the barrel off of it and they're claiming that they were trying to get rid of another white figure. Was what I was reading.

[Joe Getty]

See, I can't tell what is guessing commentary and what is actually cracker barrels attitude. Now I did hear on. I guess I was on Fox. There was some concern that the, the guy next to the barrel. It was seen as a cracker. You know, the derogatory term for a white person. Cracker and a barrel. Cracker barrel. Which I, I don't know that anybody had ever thought about the logo ever since 1969. One human being. But the. It's actually there is. There used to be barrels full of crackers at old time country stores. And that's what it was. It was a cracker barrel. But if their concern was that then once again that would be reacting to something that didn't exist. That would be trying to fix something that wasn't a problem in the first place. Again, there were not marches in the streets. I don't remember anybody crying. I don't remember any disruption in society over the fact that it was called Cracker Barrel and he had a little picture of a kid next to her. Whatever.

[Katie Green]

Because there wasn't jack.

[Joe Getty]

So they lost a ton of money in the last week since this news came out. I don't know if that's merely the pullback of a business. A tried and true business is changing. We're a little hesitant. We don't know if you know it's going to be successful or not pull back or if people are actually angry like they were with Bud Light and Nike and a couple of other products in recent years. But if it goes to, if it actually, if they actually do the reap go through with this remodel everywhere and it goes to booths and stuff like that. I know my family won't be using it when we all get together for our big gathering because you can't pull booths together and get a Big crowd there. And because that's a popular thing at Cracker Barrel, they put some tables together and you got 15 people and you got cousins and aunts and uncles and everything like that. It's fun, it's fantastic. And the menu's broad enough. There's something for everybody. And if you got little kids, it's fantastic. There's enough to look at on the walls or enough stupid stuff to play with or whatever. It keeps everybody occupied. Fine, whatever. Minor problem in life. But if they thought they were making people happy from a cultural standpoint, that is pretty moronic. They. Cracker Barrel released some sort of statement yesterday to try to walk it back, but it didn't include any of, we're changing our mind. It just was, you know, it was the. The worst kind of apology you can ever give somebody, sorry I hurt your feelings. Which is basically saying, you're a snowflake and I'm not. Sorry I said what?

[Katie Green]

Yeah, that's up there with sorry you feel that way.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, it's just a different version of sorry you feel that way to say, sorry I hurt your feelings. I'm not sorry I said what I said. You should have reacted differently. That's what you're saying. You should have reacted differently to what I said. You said, sorry I hurt your feelings means okay, so that minor thing is off the table. Have a whole bunch of great guests today. And I won't run through the entire list, but I'm looking forward to talking to our old friend Craig Got Walls a little bit later in the show. He and I were actually texting in real life last night, and he's got a bunch of stuff he's doing, including how he uses AI. He uses AI a lot for his business and just in his personal life. And he had some tips for that that I thought were really, really interesting. I know you use AI, Katie. I use AI, Joe does. But he came across some chart that shows you which AI to use for which sort of thing you're doing, whether it's counseling questions, medical questions, imaging. Yeah, because there's like 10 different AIs out there, and if you know which one's best at which, it'd be pretty handy. So we'll talk a little bit about that later. I like that as a topic. We better start the show officially before I get in trouble. Real quick. I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty on this. It is Tuesday, August 26, year 2025, where Armstrong and Getty and we approve of this program. Let's start to start the show at mark.

[Michael]

You know, I do have to acknowledge under Gavin Newsom's leadership, you know, California, they are number one in a of things. They're number one in homelessness. They're number one in public defecation. They're number one in tent cities, on sidewalks and in public places.

[Joe Getty]

You may recognize that voice as the governor of Florida who kind of ran for President. Ron DeSantis talking about how Gavin Newsom going around claiming California is number one is hilarious. And then you heard some of the list there. Number one in public defecation, which I'm sure we are. I'm sure California. California is far away. Number one in public defecation. I can't even imagine there's a close second.

[Katie Green]

I can't think of another state with a crap map. Remember how we had in San Francisco, Right.

[Joe Getty]

And, and it was needed. I don't know if DeSantis is actually thinking of taking another shot at it and thinks maybe he could get the nomination if Trump's not on the ballot. I don't know. But we'll talk about that a little bit later. We are going to get into Katie's headlines coming up. Got a great guest to talk about Russia and Ukraine in a little bit. Hopefully I'm going to get off the interstate. All on the way. Stay here. Text line is 415295KFTC.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Joe Getty]

Yo, yo, yo man. We've lined up a pretty good show today. We got a bunch of interesting topics to cover and some great guests that we'll get to a little bit later, including want to do a Russia, Ukraine thing coming up next. I think that story's dead. Well, the, the peace process is completely dead. So I think we're restarting with where we are on that whole thing. The war still rages on and Russia's on pace to lose another 20,000 men this month dead, which is absolutely amazing. But more on that a little bit later. Let's check the headlines with Katie Green, find out what's going on.

[Katie Green]

All right, let's start with the Hill. Trump administration, quote, absent, absolutely forbidden from removing Abrego Garcia, according to Judge.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know why. I just, I have, I've never grasped this story as something I'm interested in and jumped on it and it's such a political football. But. Well, you know what? We'll wait and see how it turns out.

[Katie Green]

Well, let's jump on the flip side of that story from the New York Post. Ukrainian refugee who fled war for safer life in United States, knifed to death by homeless career criminal in North Carolina.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. So this one's got several elements to it, including the, you know, Trump signed an executive order yesterday to try to do away with cash bail as a thing across the country with the idea that that's the reason there's so many repeat offenders out there on the street, people that have arrested over and over and over again. Or you get arrested for a violent crime and you get right back out on the street. We've got to do something about that.

[Katie Green]

From the New York Times, Israel faces growing pressure over hostages and Gaza offensive.

[Joe Getty]

What was the first part? Israel faces the growing pressure.

[Katie Green]

Israel is. Well, this is the New York Times. So it's right.

[Joe Getty]

From the New York Times. Right. They always, they always failed to mention that the vast, vast majority of Israelis want to get rid of Hamas and want to get the hostages back.

[Jack Armstrong]

They aren't.

[Joe Getty]

There are protests in the street, but that's not the majority opinion. New York Times always presents it like it's the majority opinion.

[Katie Green]

Yeah. From USA Today, U.S. stock futures lower after Trump fires Fed Governor Lisa Cook.

[Joe Getty]

Another story. I'm not following. Go ahead, move on. I don't care. I don't care. I'm just, I'm just not gonna get baited into all of these outrageous authoritarian. He's a Hitler. What? I just, I'm not doing it. I'm not playing that game. Whatever. If you like that story, listen to something else.

[Katie Green]

From NBC. National Guard troops now carrying weapons in.

[Joe Getty]

Washington D.C. yeah, man, I don't know. My brother was a guardsman for a long time and I would, I would be really worried if he was walking the streets of Washington, D.C. with a gun. With the job of being a policeman, urban policeman following civilian law. That's a complicated position to put our, our National Guardsmen in.

[Katie Green]

From the Free Beacon. Columbia Law School tells students to avoid offensive terms like quote, crazy uncle and grandfathering.

[Joe Getty]

Wow, I thought that was over. The colleges at the beginning of the year telling you the ridiculously woke terms to use.

[Katie Green]

Oh, and they even dropped the word microaggression back in there.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. So Colombia is going to die on that hill. They're gonna fight in that good fight. Wow. Good for you.

[Katie Green]

From Breitbart.com DNC has spent over $15 million in 2025 on repaying Kamala Harris campaign expenses.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, not enough people pay attention to that part of running for president. There's a lot of, well, first of all, there's a lot of people that run for president just for the perk of staying in nice hotels and eat at nice restaurants and raising money and somebody else pays for it. And then even the serious candidates take advantage of the whole situation and, and somebody's paying the bill for her losing candidacy. Right.

[Katie Green]

Study finds more purpose, less Dementia. Americans with Life direction fared 28% better.

[Joe Getty]

Life direction. Yeah. Having like having about that later.

[Katie Green]

Yeah. Having a routine some.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Katie Green]

One of the.

[Joe Getty]

I want to discuss that at length later. That's a good one.

[Katie Green]

And finally, from the Babylon be, John Bolton eludes FBI by blending into a herd of walruses.

[Joe Getty]

Oh. Oh, that's the laugh of the day. That's a good one right there. We got a great guest coming up. We're going to talk a little bit about the war in Ukraine. A whole bunch of other stuff on the way. I hope you can stay with us on the Armstrong and Getty show. If you miss the hangman, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on demand.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Joe Getty]

I happen to think the whole Russia, Ukraine thing is actually a very big story that has significance for the world. As you know, if you're a listener to the Armstrong and Getty Show, I think the peace process, however, is dead. I don't know if there's much to say about that. Well, let's find out with someone who's way smarter than me. Justin Logan with the Cato Institute. Justin, welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Good morning. So first of all, I guess, do you agree with my assessment that this, at least this round of the peace process is more or less dead?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I mean, you have to have a sort of context for this. If you look at back at the Korean War, for example, there was talk talking while fighting that went on for the better part for over two years. In fact, there were over 50 meetings between the various sides to try to bring it together. So I think there's an argument that isn't super helpful in the present that this should have started a long time ago, which again, doesn't help us today. But so I think there was a big media push and everybody was like, ooh, is Trump going to get Putin to agree to some grand deal in Alaska? And those of us with a little more sour disposition or arguably sort of more realistic expectations said, well, hey, wait a minute, this is the sort of it's a bad metaphor, but first date, right? There were too many hopes put in that first meeting and then the meeting with the Europeans. And on the central issue, the two sides are really far apart. Ukrainians say they want security guarantees from NATO or the United States, and the Russians say they want big chunks of Ukrainian territory. And the two sides are very far apart on those two central issues. So there's going to have to be some kind of fudging that happens to bring them together on those. And that may take quite a long time.

[Joe Getty]

Did you just reveal that your first dates, you begin the negotiations of who gets what right off the bat.

[Jack Armstrong]

I wouldn't put it exactly like that.

[Joe Getty]

On the radio, but so, okay, so Trump's style of. Sure, I'll just meet with Putin right off the bat before laying any groundwork I thought was kind of refreshing and getting away from the pointy headed to academics who overthink things. But maybe not. No, I mean, I agree with that. Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

At a certain point, you've just gotta make a move, you've gotta do something. And Trump does not genuflect at the sort of icons of the D.C. foreign policy establishment. He just does things. Right. There's this phrase in his circles, you could just do things and he just does things right. And so everybody around where I work freaks out about it and said, well, he didn't give anything away. There was this great cry about he's going to sell out the Ukrainians. And he even said, at the end of the day, it's going to have to be Ukrainians that make some kind of deal. Right. He can't give Ukraine away because Ukrainians are the ones doing the fighting. So I think his style is so anathema to the sort of beltway nerds that they tend to overstate the substance of what's being decided at these things. But again, I think on the substance, you know, I don't disagree with your setup that, you know, we're still quite a ways apart.

[Joe Getty]

So that was really interesting info. You brought about how long it took for the Korean War to come to a close. And I probably know less about the Korean War than any major war in US History. Maybe I should look into that. But was one side, like, fairly clearly winning at the end, the way Russia seems to be, or at least, you know, willing to fight on between the Koreas?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I think you've put your finger on another problem, which is that in this case, the Russians are brutally, gradually, incrementally winning, and they know it. And that's the fundamental problem, is that what's happening here is they say to themselves, all right, we could, you know, take half a loaf today or we could keep fighting. And we have some expectation that if we keep fighting, we could get more than we could get via diplomacy. And that's the fundamental fact that confounds diplomacy in this case. Right. What you would want is both sides feel as though they're paying inordinate costs for trivial gains. And to say we need some off ramp off of this thing. And arguably, I think the Trump administration's policy vis a vis Ukraine, if you remember several Months ago, they didn't even go to an unconditional ceasefire. Right. They wanted to keep grinding along. And I think the fact that no human huge bucket of American materiel arms is forthcoming has caused the Ukrainians to move somewhat on this issue. On the other side, however, Russians perceive the order of battle on the battlefield as it is, which is tilted in their favor. And they say to themselves, well, let's see how this plays out. But in the meantime, fighting is serving our interests, so we're going to keep fighting.

[Joe Getty]

Let's back up a second. In terms of the importance of this, how important do you super smart people at Cato think this is? Because I definitely have been buying into the idea of if Putin gets away with this, I'm using my finger quotes. If Putin gets away with this, it re establishes, you know, the great game, as they used to call it, where big countries get to take small countries and China says, okay, it's on, we get to take Taiwan, that it affects the way the whole world works. Do you think it's that it has those sorts of consequences if Putin gets away with this?

[Jack Armstrong]

This won't satisfy you, but cynical realists like me think that that's always the way international politics has been. And we had this little interlude, this sort of unipolar moment after the Cold War where we told ourselves we had transcended history, we had broken out of the sort of tragic nature of international politics. And, you know, to some extent that was true in the sense that, you know, if you only have one great power in the system, you know, it has a dampening effect. But I think that the system itself is changing and therefore we're reverting back to the normal order of international politics, which is a brutal and competitive enterprise. The one thing I will say is that and this has been just a horrific humanitarian catastrophe for Ukraine and also for Russian conscripts, et cetera. But the one sort of, if you will, silver lining to this very dark cloud is that it was a huge opportun opportunity to force the issue on the Europeans. Right? The United States has been complaining about European free riding on America's exertion since the Eisenhower administration. And this got the Europeans attention, right? The largest war in Europe since World War II. So if we were serious, as the Trump administration said, that it was about shifting the burden to the Europeans for European defense, this was a useful opportunity. Now, I think, again, to bring back the dark cloud. I think that to a certain extent, they're missing this opportunity by taking sort of paper commitments to spend more in the future and by not moving around America's pieces in Europe, which is the one tool that we have that could get the Europeans not just to promise to spend more or even to spend more, but to spend well and effectively in terms of translating a Euro spent into more units of military power.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. I don't know if you read that piece that Stephen Kotkin wrote for the Wall Street Journal. I thought it was interesting, his take on why are the Europeans coming to the Oval Office to beg Trump to let them do something they could do on their own.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, because they feel like they have to. It was a quite striking visual, and Trump is a master of imagery and visuals and things, but, you know, he was sitting on the other side of the Resolute desk with seven or eight European leaders arrayed on the other side, like what they were, which is supplicants. Right. They're coming to the United States to beg and plead for the United States to take responsibility for Ukraine's security itself, because the Europeans feel like they can't do it.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Europeans right now are pulling and begging and pleading for the United States to commit to defend Ukraine from Russia should Russia attack it again, in the same breath, the Germans, the Italians, the Brits now are saying, but we're not going to commit troops ourselves. And that is the same bad deal that Americans have been getting out of Europe for the past 65 or 70 years. And I think, you know, the Trump administration is uniquely positioned to push this issue and to hand off a larger share, if not all, of the conventional deterrence in Europe to Europeans, which, after all, have an economy roughly the size of the US Economy, five or six times Russia's population, et cetera, et cetera. But if they don't force this issue now, we may be left with a $150 billion a year liability on the books that we would have done well to sort of hand back to the Europeans.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that's the quote from Donald Tusk of Poland that I like so much. Why are we, the 500 million, expecting the 300 million of the United States to protect us from 140 million? Which is a good question.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's a very good question. And coming from the. Considering the source, it becomes an even better question.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, no, I. I was not disappointed in your answer. I love that. So this is just the way the world has always been and always gonna be. The big and powerful will take the weak if they can, and, you know, that's just the way it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think there are better and worse ways of managing politics. But to try to transcend the underlying reality of international politics is where you run into trouble. Right. You say to yourself, and this is, you know, akin to sort of, you know, progressive capital p, progressive social programs, you know, inside the United States, which is to say if you throw enough experts and regulations and laws at a problem, you can transcend something that is more fundamental about social life. And, you know, fact of international politics is that it's inherently competitive. And I just think we need to get back to sort of getting our heads around that, the nature of the problem.

[Joe Getty]

That's fantastic stuff, man. Really like talking to you about these sorts of issues. You're really good. Justin Logan with Cato. Thanks for your time today. My pleasure, Jack. Yeah, man, that's, that's a smart guy, you know, and maybe part of the reason I think he's so smart as I agree with what he's saying. But so Europe is coming to the Oval Office to beg Trump to do it because they don't want to or can't. That's an interesting situation for the world, isn't it? That is an interesting situation for the world. That story is obviously a long way from over. Okay, well, we got a lot more to get to and Katie is going to explain to us why Cracker Barrel is so woke, among other things on the way. We got a lot of great guests today. I hope you can stay here on the Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Michael]

What happened to our best joke? Michael, I thought you were playing our best joke.

[Joe Getty]

Huh?

[Michael]

I want to hear our best joke.

[Joe Getty]

An online video. Former Saved by the Bell star Tiffani Amber Thiessen eating carrot cake while apparently naked has gone viral.

[Katie Green]

What?

[Joe Getty]

Your move, Chris Christie.

[Michael]

Please.

[Joe Getty]

No.

[Michael]

I need one more joke. In a new survey, 70% of American dog owners say that their dog overeats during the holidays. Then their dogs are like, it's called seasonal depression. And telling everyone is not helping. You know your dog overeats when he drops an Alka Seltzer in the toilet bowl before drinking. You know, dogs overeat during the holidays. Yeah, they. It's kind of like we always talk about. If you don't like Generation Z, they didn't raise themselves. Your dog didn't, like, go to the fridge in the middle of the night, right, and grab a piece of cake that it shouldn't eat.

[Joe Getty]

All right.

[Michael]

Look at. Look at yourself.

[Katie Green]

And it doesn't just say, no, I'd rather sit on the couch all day and watch tv.

[Michael]

Mom, do you feed your dog from the table or you table scraps or whatever?

[Katie Green]

No, every. If she's being. Or if he's being really good, I'll give him like a piece of steak or something, but.

[Michael]

Well, all right, you do it however you want, but he's in great shape.

[Katie Green]

Thank you very much. Don't fat shame my dog.

[Michael]

You start giving your pet your food from the table, that is the. The only thing they think about the rest of their lives when. Whenever you're at the table. And that's just part of your life, which is fine if that's what you want. A promise to our guests writes Cracker Barrel. Having not enjoyed the blowback they've been getting for the remodel in the last few days. If the last few days have shown us anything, it's how deeply people care about Cracker Barrel. We're truly grateful for your heartfelt voices, they wrote. You've also shown us that we could have done a better job sharing who we are and what we'll always be. What has not changed and what will never change are the values this company was built on.

[Joe Getty]

Blah, blah, blah.

[Michael]

I don't eat values. I eat food. When the Cracker Barrel first opened in 1969, hard work, family, and scratch cooked food made with care. A place where everyone feels at home, no matter where you're from or where you're headed. That's the Cracker Barrel you'll always find. So basically what they said. Thanks for Your input. We're going to keep doing what we had planned. Shut up. That is basically what that statement is.

[Katie Green]

And how, how her tune has changed because the CEO was on great Good Morning America last week and said this.

[Cracker Barrel CEO]

Honestly. The feedback's been overwhelmingly positive that people like what we're doing. I'll give you another sound bite. I actually happened to be in Orlando last week with all of our managers. We bring them together once every other year. And the number one question that I got asked Michael was, how can I get a remodel? When can I get a remodel? How do I get on the list?

[Joe Getty]

Oh, really?

[Cracker Barrel CEO]

So, because the feedback and the buzz is so good, not only from our customers, but from our team members. They want to work in a, in a really restaurant.

[Joe Getty]

So, okay.

[Cracker Barrel CEO]

We're doing everything for our guests and our team members.

[Michael]

First of all, I'll Never understand how CEOs of big companies are so incredibly out of touch with their customers that I don't get. I do understand how CEOs of big companies are out of touch with their employees. How do you not know this? As a boss? You think you roll out the big remodel and explain to people that any of your employees are going to tell you, I think that's a terrible idea. I think the customers are going to hate it. Do you think anybody's going to say that? Or is every single person one rung below you and then rung, one rung below them all gonna say, great idea, boss. Another great idea, boss. You always have great ideas. How do you not know that?

[Joe Getty]

That's it.

[Michael]

It's blown my mind my entire life since I was a kid and I got into business and I see bosses misled by ass kicking, ass kissing underlings. The people beneath you always say it's a great idea. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. I don't know how you break out of that. I don't know how you convince your, the, the, you know, your vice presidents and then the regional managers and everybody. I don't know how you convince them to be honest. But of course they told you it was a good. The buzz and the feedback. People are saying, how do I get a remodel? Yes, of course they are. Because they want to move up from regional manager to, you know, sectional manager or whatever the hell is. And the way you do that is you go along with the boss's ideas.

[Katie Green]

Oh, change the whole thing. Oh, great idea.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Exact idea.

[Joe Getty]

What?

[Michael]

And what is going to happen to you normally if you Say, I think that's a terrible idea. I'm not on board. You get fired and replaced by somebody else. That's what happens. People who survive in companies say yes to everything and everybody knows that. Now, as far as being out of touch with the customers, that I don't quite get, man. Did you not. Did you never go to your own cracker barrels and sit around and look at the people and talk to the people about what they might like and what they don't like?

[Katie Green]

Probably not.

[Michael]

Probably not. Probably probably not is exactly the right answer.

[Katie Green]

By the way, the little old white guy sitting next to the barrel is Uncle Herschel. And he will still be on the menu as quote, he's not going anywhere. He's family.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Michael]

They hit him somewhere on the menu away from the logo.

[Katie Green]

Exactly.

[Michael]

I don't think it's the logo that's the problem though. If you've seen the inside of the new cracker barrels, it's just a completely different kind of restaurant. Completely different thing. So. Okay, I gotta. I gotta take a break from that. Just a second to tell you about Simply Safe. I'm a big fan of Simply Safe. I like the way it makes me feel every time I pull out of my driveway to go somewhere that I've got the AI powered cameras and the live monitoring agents and they detect suspicious activity before they break into the home. It's. It's absolutely fantastic. I got the sensors and the cameras and all the stuff.

[Joe Getty]

Stuff.

[Michael]

And it doesn't cost that much. It's around a dollar a day. Named the best home security system of 2025 by CNET. Four million Americans trust Simply Safe. And they're not locked into a contract. That's not why they're doing Simply Safe. No hidden fees, no contract. So here's the deal. Visit simplisafe.comarmstrong to claim 50 off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com Armstrong There is no safe like simplisafe. If I have one message today, you, the boss, need to know that the people underneath you are not being honest about your ideas. They're not all. They're also not being honest about how funny your jokes are or how good your suit looks or anything else. They're not being honest with you at all. All right? You need to know that when you're making decisions, do not base any of your decisions on what some of the people around a conference table looking you are saying because they're just trying to make you happy. How do you not know that? Okay, we got a lot more on the way that I'm really looking forward to. Need a little feedback from you, though. See, that's what I'm doing. I'm getting some honest feedback. And trust me, the feedback I get from you on the text line is often hurtfully honest. The text line is 415295, KFTC. Whether it's about my appearance or things we say on the radio show or anything, there's plenty of honesty on the text line. 415295, KFTC. If you missed a segment, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

This is an I Heart podcast.