I Don't Like The Word "Flaccid"

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand Episode Title: I Don't Like The Word "Flaccid"
Release Date: May 22, 2025
Host: Jack Armstrong & Katie
Author: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Opening Remarks and Political Commentary (00:00 - 04:59)

The episode begins with Jack Armstrong emphasizing the conservative principles that underpin recent legislative efforts. Jack introduces a discussion about a newly passed bill, referred to as the "big beautiful bill," highlighting its conservative credentials. He challenges the authenticity of Republican Speaker Mike Johnson's representation of the bill, questioning its alignment with true fiscal conservatism.

Jack Armstrong [01:07]: "Everybody's conservative. We believe in limited government and we believe in individual freedom and the rule of law and peace through strength and fiscal responsibility and free markets and human dignity. The things that are all wrapped into this bill."

Katie counters Jack's critique by labeling the bill as a "ridiculous rotten retreat," emphasizing that it doesn't genuinely reflect the stated conservative values.

Katie [02:10]: "What beautiful bill, or as I'd prefer to call it, the ridiculous rotten retreat."

2. Analysis of the "Big Beautiful Bill" and Fiscal Conservatism (02:23 - 06:15)

Jack plays a Fox reporter segment explaining the contents of the bill, which includes making Trump’s 2017 tax cuts permanent, eliminating taxes on tips and overtime, enhancing border security, targeting Medicaid reforms, and increasing the state and local tax (SALT) deduction cap from $10,000 to $40,000.

Fox Reporter Scott Besson [02:23]: "It makes permanent those Trump 2017 tax cuts... Raises the debt ceiling by 4tr."

Jack agrees with the factual accuracy of the report but criticizes the inclusion of the SALT deduction, arguing it contradicts fiscal conservative principles.

Jack Armstrong [03:00]: "There's nothing that could be less conservative than that SALT deduction portion of the bill."

Katie expands on the issue, arguing that empowering states like California and New York through higher SALT deductions leads to fiscal irresponsibility.

Katie [04:26]: "He [Mike Johnson] had it completely backwards... It's just absolutely unbelievable."

Jack underscores the lack of appetite for fiscal conservatism in the current political landscape, referencing Rush Limbaugh’s assertion that "fiscal conservatism is dead."

Jack Armstrong [05:41]: "Rush Limbaugh was recognizing what is. There is not a constituency for being fiscally conservative."

3. Republican Strategy and Medicaid Reform (06:02 - 13:24)

The hosts delve into the challenges Republicans face in promoting fiscal conservatism, particularly in cutting government spending. They discuss Karl Rove’s strategy for Republicans to address Medicaid by emphasizing a commitment to save the program from what he claims is Democratic mismanagement.

Katie [10:44]: "Rove writes GOP silence will make the inevitable Democratic assault more powerful."

They highlight public support for Medicaid reforms, citing a Kaiser Family Foundation poll where 62% of Americans support requiring adults to work or seek work to qualify for Medicaid.

Katie [12:27]: "62% support requiring nearly all adults to work or be looking for work to qualify for Medicaid."

Jack laments the Republican Party's reluctance to tackle spending cuts, suggesting it leads to long-term economic consequences.

Jack Armstrong [06:15]: "Eventually there's a price to pay for that."

4. Media Critique and the Hunter Biden Scandal (15:03 - 24:58)

The conversation shifts to a critique of mainstream media's handling of the Hunter Biden scandal. Jack criticizes Jake Tapper for initially dismissing allegations against Hunter Biden but acknowledges that Tapper's recent book sheds new light on the issue.

Jack Armstrong [20:12]: "Now his book has got all kinds of background stuff about what a scumbag Hunter was, which he knew at the time."

Katie echoes Jack's frustration, pointing out the media's selective coverage and lack of attention to conservative voices, such as Miranda Devine of the New York Post, who wrote "Laptop from Hell."

Katie [22:11]: "Miranda Devine... didn't get to go on any of those shows or podcasts. Zero."

They criticize the media for failing to recognize significant political scandals, comparing it to the neglect of concerns about Biden's age.

Jack Armstrong [23:18]: "The biggest media failure in American history easily."

5. Human Nature and Self-Delusion in Politics (28:09 - 33:03)

Jack and Katie explore the concept of self-delusion and cognitive bias in politics. They discuss how individuals often ignore inconvenient truths to maintain their beliefs, drawing parallels to Orwellian themes of reality manipulation.

Jack Armstrong [31:43]: "It's never a conundrum for your conscience. And I'll bet the same thing with the whole Biden thing."

Katie reflects on societal trends, such as the reinforcement of misguided beliefs through social acceptance, and the challenges of addressing deeply ingrained delusions.

Katie [29:50]: "You can get people to say inane stupid things if you reinforce it socially."

They emphasize the importance of recognizing and calling out self-delusion without condoning it, advocating for accountability in media and political discourse.

6. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections (34:22 - 38:57)

Transitioning from political discourse, Jack and Katie share personal stories, highlighting their everyday frustrations and interests. Jack recounts a maddening experience with a Tesla software update that left him stranded, illustrating his disdain for technological complexities.

Jack Armstrong [18:47]: "You're gonna leave me stranded here because you updated the software and improved my life somehow. Fu El."

Katie discusses her friends' experiences with Buddhism, emphasizing the importance of finding joy amidst life's inevitable suffering and changes.

Katie [16:36]: "Enjoy the love, you know, Enjoy the joy when you can. Joy."

They also touch upon their mutual interest in coffee, humorously debating the practicality of owning advanced espresso machines.

7. Future Topics and Closing Remarks (39:35)

As the episode nears its conclusion, Jack and Katie tease upcoming discussions on campus madness, mimetic thinking, and the social influences shaping human behavior. They hint at exploring evolutionary aspects of social conformity and the balance required to navigate personal convictions amidst societal pressures.

Katie [38:40]: "Do you know what mimetic thinking is? ... influenced by that."

The episode wraps up with final advertisements reiterating the benefits of Power Trip by Verify Skincare and Simply Safe Home Security, followed by a lighthearted exchange about coffee preferences.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jack Armstrong [01:07]: "Everybody's conservative. We believe in limited government and we believe in individual freedom and the rule of law and peace through strength and fiscal responsibility and free markets and human dignity. The things that are all wrapped into this bill."

• Katie [02:10]: "What beautiful bill, or as I'd prefer to call it, the ridiculous rotten retreat."

• Fox Reporter Scott Besson [02:23]: "It makes permanent those Trump 2017 tax cuts... Raises the debt ceiling by 4tr."

• Jack Armstrong [03:00]: "There's nothing that could be less conservative than that SALT deduction portion of the bill."

• Jack Armstrong [05:41]: "Rush Limbaugh was recognizing what is. There is not a constituency for being fiscally conservative."

• Katie [12:27]: "62% support requiring nearly all adults to work or be looking for work to qualify for Medicaid."

• Jack Armstrong [18:47]: "You're gonna leave me stranded here because you updated the software and improved my life somehow. Fu El."

• Katie [29:50]: "You can get people to say inane stupid things if you reinforce it socially."

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This episode of "Armstrong & Getty On Demand" delves deep into the intricacies of fiscal conservatism, the challenges within the Republican Party, and critiques of the mainstream media's handling of political scandals. Through engaging dialogue and sharp insights, Jack Armstrong and Katie provide listeners with a comprehensive analysis of current political dynamics, personal anecdotes, and reflections on human nature's role in shaping societal beliefs.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

You're listening to an I heart podcast.

[Joe Getty]

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[Katie]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Everybody's conservative. We believe in limited government and we believe in individual freedom and the rule of law and peace through strength and fiscal responsibility and free markets and human dignity. The things that are all wrapped into this bill. Who, who is that and what year was that?

[Katie]

That's Mike Johnson pretending that this bill is responsible and conservative.

[Jack Armstrong]

Was that 1978? This is Republican speaker of the House talking about legislation.

[Katie]

Play that again.

[Jack Armstrong]

There's a couple words there at the beginning. I don't know the definition of everybody's conservative. We believe in limited government and we believe in individual freedom and the rule of law. What's what? The conservative and limited government. I want to hear your definitions of conservative and limited government, which Mike Johnson might be conservative and he might believe in living in government, but the bill you just passed does not, is not an example of that.

[Katie]

No. Doesn't represent those principles at all, I guess. What beautiful bill, or as I'd prefer to call it, the ridiculous rotten retreat.

[Jack Armstrong]

Bbw. No, that's a different thing. Bbb. That's what, that's what passed last night, the big beautiful bill. And it happened in the middle of the night. And here's, here's a FOX reporter with a little bit of what's in it.

[Scott Besson]

What's in this bill? It's huge. It makes permanent those Trump 2017 tax cuts. No taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime, border security. They went after waste, fraud and abuse to make up for all that loss in revenue reforms to Medicaid worker requirements in Medicaid start in 2026. That's a huge win for those holdouts. Increases in state and local tax deduction caps. That goes from 10,000 to 40,000. That's a big win for Republicans in those high tax blue states. And it also Raises the debt ceiling by 4tr. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson has to be breathing a sigh of relief this morning.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's not at all not true what she just said. In fact, it's 100% true. But for the reporter on Fox to let you know about the big beautiful bill and say it's a win for those Republicans in blue states right after they played, by the way, it wasn't just us. They played Mike Johnson saying it's a win for fiscal conservatives. There's nothing that could be less conservative than that SALT deduction portion of the bill. I mean, that's, it's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

[Katie]

Yeah. I despise it. It's, it's indefensible. We actually got one email saying, guys, I disagree with you. Here's a conservative defense of the SALT agreement. As a conservative, we want smaller federal government and more power in the hands of the state and local governments that have a greater and more direct impact on our lives. Yeah, I've said a million times, by deducting our local taxes from our burden to the federal government, we're taking power away from that centralized entity because money really is power in this case of no other, choking off the revenue stream, in theory, with a fiscally responsible administration for its federal government to work within its means. Well, that would be lovely if that's. Oh, I'd rather fight local, locally for what I believe direct, where my money goes than try to push the giant flaccid rope that is Washington, DC. I appreciate the imagery.

[Jack Armstrong]

Ew. Yeah, I don't like the word flaccid.

[Katie]

Get over it. So the problem with your argument, though, is that that empowers the most egregiously wasteful states. California is not spending the money in the way that you reference there, sir. That, the way you're. In the way you're describing, it's squandering it on handouts to cronies, as is New York. It's absolutely shameless.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I think that's got it. They have. He had. That person has it completely backwards. It's, it's a crime against humanity that red fiscally conservative states have to pick up the slack for blue states that can run up their tax bills. It's just, it's just absolutely unbelievable. Anyway, again, what, what Mike Johnson would say is there is not an appetite for fiscal conservatism in this country. Rush Limbaugh said. How many years ago was that? I should ask Chat GPT. What year did Rush Limbaugh get a fair amount of Flack for coming out and saying, fiscal conservatism is dead. Nobody cares about that. I remember when he said it, and it was like, it hurt my heart.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

But he was just presenting, you know, as George Will says, one of the essence, one of the maybe core tenets of being a conservative is recognizing what is. Rush Limbaugh was recognizing what is. There is not a constituency for being fiscally conservative.

[Katie]

And so we've got to tuck that behind the curtain and win elections to get done what we can get done.

[Jack Armstrong]

Until we, you know, collapse in ruin because we spent more than we could take in for too long. And eventually there's a price to pay for that.

[Katie]

You know, I'm reminded of, and I think this is rock solid, when Winston Churchill, who spent, as you may know, the 1930s, howling to anybody who would listen, including his beloved England, that the Nazis were building a war machine and were soon to be using it, and nobody paid attention to him, or at least they told him to shut up. He was wrong. We couldn't negotiate instead. And then, of course, the. The invasion began and the war began, and then the very things he'd been pleading for, pleading for work done. And Churchill said famously, nothing changes until you get invaded. I think the Mike Johnson's of the world is Rush Limbaugh, the great Rush recognized back in the time, we will continue spending like Hunter Biden on a Coke binge until we're actually in a disaster. Katie, did you tell us. He said it in 2019.

[Jack Armstrong]

So six years ago. That he recognized what was clearly true then and is even more true now. Yeah, there aren't votes for being fiscally conservative. So somebody I don't know tweeted out after this, and it's true. It's like when it comes to losing weight, I've heard people say you can't outwork a bad diet. It's the calories you're taking in, not the exercise. You got to do both. But you can't outwork taking in all those calories. I think this is the same premise here. The issue isn't taxes, it's spending. The issues isn't taxes at spending. The issue isn't taxes, it's spending. It repeats that for quite a while. Yeah, you can. You can. You can deal with taxes all you want. It's the spending. You got to stop spending so much money. And there's no appetite for cutting spending. And then Brit Hume, who is the senior analyst over at Fox Television and really, really good, even though he's ancient. When I started covering Congress. Back in the late 70s, I thought the two hardest votes you could make in Congress were for war and raising taxes. I was wrong. The hardest thing by far for Congress to do is clearly cut spending. That's the one vote you can't take as a Republican or Democrat, apparently.

[Katie]

Yeah, yeah. The ratification of the idea that the government is Santa Claus and, and Mommy is now it's complete, it's solidified, it's just part of our culture.

[Jack Armstrong]

So anyway, I have one good. Another good summary of what should have.

[Katie]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Katie]

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[Jack Armstrong]

One of my favorite fiscal conservatives is Charles C.W. cook of the National Review, who retweeted a GOP that can't simply extend the 2017 tax cuts, defund Biden's ridiculous green energy blowouts, period, is worthless. In other words, you got the presidency, you got the Senate, you got the House. You could have come in and just done, extend the tax cuts, defund the green energy period, but no, had to add in a whole bunch of other goodies for a variety of people. That is going to grow the deficit by how many trillion dollars?

[Katie]

Three trillion. Over a decade. But those numbers are never too conservative.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, no, no.

[Katie]

Yeah, it's, it's discouraging. Discouraging. You know, I read a great piece by Karl Rove, who I know a lot of folks you know despise as an old timey Republican. He's wrong.

[Jack Armstrong]

Don't get started on Karl Rove.

[Katie]

Oh, boy. I won't. Thanks. Fair warning. But his, he, he wrote a piece called how the GOP can Win Medicaid. Democrats won't let Republicans duck the issue, so go on the offensive instead. And I agree with him completely in this case GOP silence as the Democrats. And I've got great examples of this, trying to terrify everybody that, oh, they're gonna take away healthcare for blind babies, even though that's utterly fiction, just complete fiction. But Rove writes GOP silence will make the inevitable Democratic assault more powerful. And Republicans have a lot of ammo with which to prevail on this front. And then he goes into some of the numbers. But here's a possible script for the Republican Medicaid offense. Start by declaring a strong commitment to save the program. We're here to save it. Because of Democratic policies, Medicaid is spending hundreds of billions of dollars on people it shouldn't, those who are able bodied and working age. Republicans want this assistance to go to the people it was meant for the elderly, poor, disabled children and low income families. Without reform, the program on which those Americans depend is at risk of rapidly becoming unsustainable. And the GOP should say able bodied adults on Medicaid should be required to.

[Jack Armstrong]

Work or look for work.

[Katie]

No freeloaders on a program meant for the truly vulnerable. That's a great argument. And listen to this.

[Jack Armstrong]

No fact, no mainstream media is reporting it that way, though they're only reporting 8 million people will be cut from their health insurance, health coverage, or they.

[Katie]

Usually say health care.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're right. You're right. Like you can't get medicine and you'll just die.

[Katie]

Right? Exactly. So this is so interesting. A couple of months ago, the Kaiser Family foundation found that 62% of Americans support, and this is a quote from the poll, 62% support requiring nearly all adults to work or be looking for work to qualify for Medicaid. 38 was opposed. It was 62 to 38. But if told that such a requirement, quote, quote, could ensure that Medicaid is reserved for groups like the elderly, people with disabilities and low income children. It was 77 to 22.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's an 8020 issue.

[Katie]

So this is either a measure of Republican cowardice or, or how difficult it is to sell something to the American electorate in the year 2025 that you don't even try to win a 77 to 22 battle.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I would, I would be more willing to side with. It's just hard to do. If I ever saw him do it. Plenty of Republicans on all these various talk shows on Sunday and I never see him make that argument try and fail.

[Katie]

I mean, what, what if your kids said no, I can't do that. But son, you haven't even tried. But I can't. Yeah, I guess, I guess you shouldn't try. I mean, you ought to have your kids taken away. I'll raise them, send them my way. I'd be delighted. I got. Lord, it's a 77 to 22 and they don't have the balls to fight that battle. And Trump isn't doing it either.

[Jack Armstrong]

No testicles. Boo. Boo, I say. That's the sound I was making at my Tesla yesterday. I got so mad at Tesla yesterday I may sell the cars and and give up on them. I got so angry at the technology. Among other things on the way. Stay here.

[Joe Getty]

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[Katie]

He'll take it. He'll backpedal a three for the win.

[Jack Armstrong]

And.

[Katie]

I think that's a two. That is a two. You're right. I think that's going to be a two. That only ties the game. That ties the game.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're going to be going to overtime.

[Katie]

We sure are.

[Jack Armstrong]

Man, there is a lot of buildup for for Pacers, Knicks because it was such an exciting rivalry way back in the day and I thought okay, that's great. Same uniforms, but none of the players ended up being one of the best playoff games I've ever seen in my life. That took a lot of guts to come back from 14 late in the game in front of that Madison Square Garden crowd. But they came back in one. So I'm looking forward kind of a.

[Katie]

Funny notion that it was a great rivalry 30 years ago. Therefore we should be excited and literally, that's not the same uniforms. They've probably changed them, but.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, right, right.

[Katie]

If it's fun, it's fun. Life is. Life is tough. Enjoy, you know, the, the things you enjoy.

[Jack Armstrong]

If it's fun, enjoy the things you enjoy. Joe gives you permission to go out this Memorial Day weekend. Enjoy talking. You enjoy.

[Katie]

Shut up. Quit mocking. I was talking to a. A friend of mine last night whose daughter is really into Buddhism, and she has taught him that life is suffering. And, and, and part of the suffering is we reject change. We. We want stasis, but it'll never. We will never get it. And so enjoy the love, you know, Enjoy the joy when you can. Joy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, man. When I'm in that mindset, it really works. One of my favorite prayers from St. Teresa of Avila. It's very short, but one of the lines is everything is changing. And that is, you know, you can use it on both sides when things are not working out well, this is.

[Katie]

Not going to last.

[Jack Armstrong]

Never has in the past. And a good thing to remember when things are, you know, going well, this isn't going to last either. So enjoy it while it's last.

[Katie]

This too shall pass.

[Jack Armstrong]

Everything is constantly changing. And it's all finding the balance, though.

[Katie]

That's the.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's the hard part of life. At least for me, it is the balance on everything. Like, I watched way too much sports when I was younger. Way too much. I wish I could have those. Probably. I don't know if it's years, that's too sad to contemplate, but certainly months of my life watching regular season NFL games or whatever. I wish I could have that time back. On the other hand, watching zero sports pretty much since I started raising kids. I watch an NBA game here and there, and I have a really good time for a couple hours. Like, I'm really happy. Why would I want to deny myself that? Even if it is frivolous, useless, has no more meaning. I enjoyed it. So, I don't know, charging the batteries.

[Katie]

That's the meaning.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, speaking of batteries, here's my one. I got so angry at Tesla yesterday, and I still haven't figured it out. I'll have to Google it today. So I go to get in my car, there was a. A software update. That's one of the cool things about Tesla is the new model just came out overnight and it got downloaded into your car and you come out and the tech is different because they came up with a better way to do things. Like that happened on Monday. I got in my Car all of a sudden. Now the blind spot cameras show up here. It's easier to see. Oh, that's cool. They just changed it.

[Katie]

It is, it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's amazing. But yesterday I get in my car and I gotta go pick up my son from school. So I go get in my car, I gotta leave right now to make it on time, and you can't put it in drive. And it says, welcome to the new blah, blah, blah something or other. Download, upload the update. The app. You got to be kidding. And it gives me one of those whatever you call those things that you have to take a picture of to take you to a website.

[Katie]

Oh, QR code.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, gives me a QR code on my screen when I get in my car. I do the QR code, it takes me to a website, then asks me for information that I don't have handy, and I just say screw it and go get my other vehicle. Where I put a key in the ignition and drive off anytime I freaking want to. Oh, that made me so mad. You're gonna leave me stranded here because you updated the software and improved my life somehow. Fu El.

[Katie]

What if your kid is bleeding, you're trying to get to the hospital or like a true emergency?

[Jack Armstrong]

That made me so mad and I haven't figured it out yet. I'm sure I can, but you shouldn't need to go through any hoops to get in your car and drive off.

[Katie]

Oh, I was furious. Much more to come. Stay with us, Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jake Tapper]

Whatever you think of Hunter Biden, and there's certainly a lot of people in this town, Democrats and Republicans, that do not think a lot of him, there is a certain kind of like, cruelty to the campaign against him. Where is Hunter? Where is Hunter? Where is Hunter? The right wing is going crazy with all sorts of allegations about Biden and his family. Too disgusting to even repeat here. I mean, some of the ones I've seen from the President's son and the president, some of the president's Supporters are just wildly unhinged. I think that you came here and leveled a bunch of accusations and allegations about, about Hunter Biden.

[Jack Armstrong]

I didn't level, I just said the facts. So that's a little montage of Jake Tapper back in the day attacking anybody who went after Hunter Biden for anything. Now his book has got all kinds of background stuff about what a scumbag Hunter was, which he knew at the time.

[Katie]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I thought, I thought this was interesting. This is a couple more things on the whole Biden decline, cover up Jake Tapper book, all that. It's a giant scandal or it should be one of the biggest scandals in politic in American political history. The biggest media failure in American history easily, I think, but absolutely so. Tom Bevin of Real Clear Politics wrote another nauseating fact about the Tapper Thompson book. They've gotten more media in two days than most authors get in a lifetime. All of it from liberal media. Except for Megyn Kelly. None of these outlets would have given a minute to conservatives if they had written the same book. Case in point, how many legacy outlets and networks and late night shows and podcasts had Miranda Devine of the New York Post on who wrote her book Laptop from Hell that every bit of it was true about Hunter Biden's laptop. I mean and this is after it got proved prove the COVID up that the the laptop was true. This wasn't at the time, even though it was true. This was after even the Washington Post was saying everything in there was accurate and the FBI and all like she wrote a book called Laptop from Hell didn't get to go on any of these shows or podcasts. Zero. And then she responded to those tweets saying this is true. I did not. Nobody asked me to come on any of those shows. I got zero appearances on any shows. No New York Times bestseller list either. She said the book did launch it number one on Amazon and still sells its little socks off. Which is exactly the same as the everybody in America, two thirds of Americans knew Biden was too old, but the media didn't cover it. Most of America understand the laptop story and and actually bought it. CD the New York Times bestseller list is a compilation of sales and like reviews and opinions of what they think are important books. Amazon is just flat out sales. So she was number one on Amazon because actual real people thought well that's an interesting story that I would like to read about. New York Times didn't think it was worthwhile.

[Katie]

Not even worth mentioning. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And.

[Katie]

I want to give you this quote, again, we're talking about how giant a scandal the Joe Biden stuff was. Again, this is one of the cabinet secretaries from the Tapper Thompson book. I've never seen a situation like this before with so few people having so much power they would make huge economic decisions without calling the Treasury Secretary, blah, blah, blah. The evidence is mounting that these aides didn't just hide Biden from the public, they hid information from Biden, including the reality of how many elected Democrats wanted him out. So you had that small cabal of advisors shielding Biden from the world and shielding the world from Biden and making all the decisions. That is amazing. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Tapper writes, and I'm only. She's of 20%. Through the book, Tapper writes about how the, that inner circle had become more about protecting the Biden family mythology than protecting the country, Democrats or anything else. It was just about protecting the Biden family. And that's what their job was on a day by day basis.

[Katie]

Right. Well, this reminds me. This is another one of those situations where there is one response slash excuse that I would have to accept. I just wish somebody had the guts to offer it up honestly. And that would be. Guys, what you're suggesting would have brought Kamala Harris to the Oval Office. And we thought that was too terrible.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. Which might actually be the reason.

[Katie]

Although I think it's more likely that it's. We really, really liked our power. We had enormous power and we, we grew to like it.

[Jack Armstrong]

You combine the two, right? You have the one, you got the Kamala Harris excuse. We've all done this in our lives. You've got a way to excuse what you want to do that might bring your self indulgence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tapper was on Morning Joe yesterday. I didn't actually watch it. I should. We had a clip that we didn't play. Tapper was on Morning Joe explaining that Biden had targeted. Had made a targeted effort to convince Scarborough he was fit for office. We've talked about this before. Cable. These cable news shows have no ratings. But particularly Morning Joe on MSNBC is hugely important to Democrats. They actually get up in the morning and watch that. The Obama people did and the Biden people do, and I think Trump does to a certain extent, but so they have an oversized influence on these White Houses. And Biden went out of his way to make sure Scarborough believed he was. He was. Okay. Scarborough talking about, on Halpern's show about how he sat with Biden for three hours and he was, he was Sharp, at least at that moment, which is, you know, still ridiculous. You saw him all the other moments on television. As, as Mark Halperin says, you don't even need to have a cable. You know, not only do you not need to have a source within the White House, you don't even need to have cable because it was on C Span. If you just watch C Span every day, you could see that Joe Biden was unfit for office.

[Katie]

Right. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

I have one more nugget. Oh, so Ezra Klein, columnist for the New York Times, who often makes me insane because I disagree with him so much. He did wr a piece way back saying that Biden should not be the nominee and he wasn't fit and they need to move on. And he got killed by the left for it. It was a pretty gutsy thing for him to do, a pretty honest thing for him to do, and he got killed for it. And he did an interview with Jake Tapper yesterday that I have not watched yet because it just came out yesterday afternoon. But he, he writes this in his, his column. I think there is a point, point here. Before Biden's announcement, I spoke to Tapper about the book and about the ways in which I think that a cover up would be an almost more comforting explanation for the group think and denial that characterized Democrats in this period. There's a question in here that is relevant beyond just Biden. How do you see what is right in front of your eyes when you very much don't want to see it? So, Ezra Klein, getting to what, to the essence of this, which we've been talking about for a while. That's the story. Can human beings want something to be true so much that you're just blind to what's right in front of your face? Now, Orwell wrote about it 80 years ago. I, I think that's a lot of what was going on here. Some of it was just cold, calculated. You have no spine. You don't care about your country lying. But I think there was a lot of it. You didn't want that to be true so much. You convinced yourself that it was a stutter or that evil Trump was exaggerating. Him and his crowd were exaggerating how bad it was. I think.

[Katie]

Yeah, I, I find myself thinking about Jake Tapper.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hasn't owned up to that, though. I wish he would.

[Katie]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm thinking about how different people have different needs. Speaking of rationalizing things for belonging.

[Jack Armstrong]

And.

[Katie]

Different levels of skepticism. I've talked about my three kids, how they're very different from each other. I just need to accept or try to understand that there are people whose capacity for self delusion, their inability to see what they don't want to see or their ability to kind of squash it and push it back so they get the acceptance of the peers that they really want. Their acceptance, it's way, way beyond mine. I would be sick the whole time. I think. I'm sure there are things I don't recognize. But it's got to exist on a continuum. I mean you look at a really impressionable, alienated, whatever 19 year old college girl, if she gets social reinforcement she will say anything, she will chant anything. At Columbia, she'll throw on the keffiyeh and believe the most. You know, like the whole, the whole world is divided into victims and oppressors and victims can do no wrong and oppressors can do no right. I've said before, if my dog espoused a philosophy that's stupid, I'd hit him with a rolled up newspaper.

[Jack Armstrong]

You have a talking dog and you're hitting it with the newspaper, really sitting on it, you're sitting on a gold mine. So your thing is it'd be cool to have a talking dog, but if I disagree with it, it ain't worth it.

[Katie]

Well, no, no, not if it annoys me. No, I can't seriously politics. So you can get otherwise intelligent young particularly. Although I look at some of the long haired hippie boomer jackasses at various marches and wonder about youth. But anyway, you can get people to say inane stupid things if you reinforce it socially. You can convince a boy that he's a girl if people pat him on the back and say good for you. And we've. People like us just have to accept that there are some people who's, whose ability to delude themselves is way beyond what we can imagine. I don't know what to do about it except yell at him. It seems like a treatment dog.

[Jack Armstrong]

It seems to be just human nature and I assume like everything else in human nature, it's a continuum and it varies from person to person. But it seems to be human nature that we can delude ourselves if we want something to be true. Here's my. Here's a great example that I always. That I think about a lot and I know I've said this before but it's, it's worth hearing if you haven't heard it. So David French, he's currently a columnist for the New York Times. He used to be at the Dispatch. He is a Conservative, he went to Harvard Law, blah, blah, blah. Very smart guy. We've had him on the air before. I heard him talking about one time, he said, I like a lot of lawyers, when we, when you're going to law school and we are going to go out into the world of law, wonder about how am I going to defend somebody that's done something horrible, even though I understand the whole justice system and everybody gets a defense and it strengthens our system. How do you defend somebody who's done. He said, it has never been an issue once, because you always find a way to justify defending the person. You just do. And, and I think that's an example of it.

[Katie]

You can find a way to believe them.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, but you find one aspect of it that you can hang on to that can help you justify defense. So you. So it's never a conundrum for your conscience. And I'll bet the same thing with the whole Biden thing or lots of things in people's lives, with the whole Biden thing, you just needed a nugget or two, whether it's Kamala or how much you hate Trump or something, that you could justify it and your. And your conscience wouldn't bother you.

[Katie]

I can hear it unfolding. You rewrite it and then you justify it. You say, yeah, Biden slowed down a step, but Trump is the new Hitler, so I'm not going to spend my time worrying about that. And so you rewrite it into a form that is acceptable and you move on. Yeah, okay. Yeah, well, we, you know, we got to call people out on it. And understanding is not the same as condoning.

[Jack Armstrong]

No. And Jake Tapper does. And until Jake Tapper finally does an interview where he says, I had deluded myself, I've gone back and looked at this Biden stuff, and now, you know, it's just, I can't. I can't believe I'm horrified at the things I said on the air because.

[Katie]

I didn't see it. And, and that horrifies me. Yeah, that would be worth saying.

[Jack Armstrong]

He hasn't come close to that yet.

[Katie]

No.

[Jack Armstrong]

And again, so he said on Megyn Kelly the other day, he said the conservatives were right, the liberals were wrong. You didn't say that in your book. You've come to that conclusion in the last two weeks when your PR thing has gone nutso and people keep attacking you.

[Katie]

You thought you would be hailed as a truth teller and you're being mocked as a hypocrite and a dope.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is absolutely right. God, I hope we get an interview with him. I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm gonna go full Tanya Harding for those of you who have been listening long enough.

[Katie]

Oh no, no, no. She canceled the rest of her tour.

[Jack Armstrong]

All right, stick around.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

I got a question for fancy Jo Getty. So.

[Katie]

That is a moniker I've never heard used to describe me before.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I, I've recently, I feel like I've gotten into espresso, which Until I was 45 years old I pronounced with an X express.

[Katie]

Lord.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't think I knew what it was. Anyway, I, I just do like a capsule sort of thing, you know, one of your Keurig or Nespresso or whatever. Nothing super fancy. Have. Do you, do you do fancy. Do you like got a machine that like grinds beans and makes your own this and that and heats up milk and do you have one of those because you're a fancy person?

[Katie]

I've gone like halfway down that road in the past, but I, I just, I don't want to spend the time.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's the thing. That's what I was wondering is the time. Because I kind of like, I mean.

[Katie]

The coffee is wonderful, fresh ground coffee is just fabulous.

[Jack Armstrong]

But I kind of like the idea since I don't drink, so I can't do, you know, different kinds of beers or whiskeys or scotches or wine or anything like that. Maybe, you know, becoming an espresso freak where I, you know, buy some good stuff and grind, whatever. But if it takes a lot of time, I just know I'll never do it. Somebody sent me a link the other day to this like thousand dollar Williams Sonoma espresso machine thingy. And I started fantasizing about that and how cool that would be an event. But if it's gonna take 15 minutes of cleaning after every time, have an espresso shot or, or setting it up or whatever, I just know I'll never use it.

[Katie]

Yeah, one of the few advantages to getting a little older is I'm more realistic about will I use this? Will I be willing to, as you point out, clean it. The rest of it. And I've decided, nah, not for now. You know, I could see someday when and if I ever retire, doing. Doing that, because I'll have a little more time. But no, I haven't bothered.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it's really, really gym equipment, like, would just, I think, sit there on the counter and mock me daily. Remember what you spent on me? When's the last time you used it?

[Katie]

I do. I do have a semi fancy. I mean, just. It's kind of just one step beyond the very basic Nespresso machine. And the pods are considerably more expensive than a Keurig, for instance. But it's really, really.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, you got to tell me what that is. What is that?

[Katie]

What is secret? What do you use it? No, it's the Nespresso machine and Nespresso pods.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, it's. It's one step beyond the Keurig, is what you said. Okay, I see.

[Katie]

It's one step beyond the very basic Nespresso. But it's. It's not. Not by much. I can't do it froth anything.

[Jack Armstrong]

I might go to the very end of it. Hire a Colombian who lives in my house. And like, he stomps the beans with his bare feet every morning.

[Katie]

Growing my. Pedro. Pedro.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, yes. He brings the beans into my kitchen on a burrow, then puts them up in the thing. That's what I'm gonna do.

[Katie]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, you love coffee.

[Jack Armstrong]

I do.

[Katie]

And the coffee's wonderful when you do that, but, you know, you gotta get.

[Jack Armstrong]

One of those cats that craps it out on my counter and then you put it in.

[Katie]

Oh, my God. Now that's a commitment. What do you got to feed those things? Well, you feed them coffee beans, I think. Right. Anyway, you put its crap in your coffee. There you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's fine.

[Katie]

Maybe. You famously never read directions. I would go ahead and read those directions. How Jack die well. Civet cat fever. What? So coming up next hour, it's going to be a blockbuster. This is going to be our Tony or Amy or whatever they give out in radio. Not only do we have a really good, interesting and very funny Campus Madness update, but following up on the Jake Tapper discussion and our abilities to delude ourselves. Do you know what mimetic thinking is? I've just learned about this. Humans are intensely social animals and we care, even if we deny it about our status. Are standing with others and the things we do or don't do or say or don't say or believe or don't believe can be heavily influenced by that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Interesting. I'm sure it's part of an evolutionary survival mechanism that we need to have survive as a beast. But like everything else I was talking about earlier, it's about moderation, right?

[Katie]

Exactly. It's a question of balance. So stay tuned. If you can't, grab it via Podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand Armstrong and.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

You're listening to an I Heart podcast.