I Like To Know When I Am Doomed

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand — "I Like To Know When I Am Doomed"

Episode Date: January 14, 2026
Podcast Host: iHeartPodcasts
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Guest: Anastasia Bowden, Pacific Legal Foundation

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Episode Overview

This episode of Armstrong & Getty dives deep into the cultural and legal battles of modern American discourse, focusing on:

• The social volatility amplified by internet culture and social media "mob mentality"
• Media and political hyperbole vs. fact-based dialogue
• The Supreme Court's oral arguments around transgender participation in female sports
• Legal distinctions, philosophical quandaries, and societal implications of “sex” and “gender” in law
• An enlightening discussion with Anastasia Bowden of the Pacific Legal Foundation about the current state and likely outcomes of Supreme Court cases affecting Title IX

The tone as always is lively, skeptical, and sometimes irreverent, blending humor with pointed commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of Modern Discourse & Media Hysteria

- Social Media Outrage & ‘Bomb Chucking’ (03:27–09:50)

• Opening bit: The hosts mock contemporary “identity” labels and online activism, with a satirical “trans indigenous” protestor that highlights social confusion and performative activism.
• Political hyperbole:
  • David Frum tweet exaggerates Trump “preparing to kill Danish NATO comrades,” using Greenland as a flashpoint—hosts and Ian Bremmer push back against this rhetoric.
  • Quote (Joe Getty, 08:18): “My view is I think it’s essential to be honest with people and not hyperbolic. Focus on serious threats … Especially because the latter diminishes credibility of those offering criticism.”
• Media reward structure:
  • The team reflects on whether they could have been more successful “playing the game” by being provocateurs, but acknowledge they don’t want to sacrifice integrity (10:17–11:46).
  • Quote (Jack Armstrong, 10:49): “I’ll bet it feels pretty good … you get in front of a crowd and you say exactly what they want and they’re cheering.”

- Existential Fretting & The Doom Meter

• Cynical optimism vs. resignation:
  • Joe Getty wonders if measured discussion can win out over mob sensationalism.
  • Quote (Jack Armstrong, 09:50): “I like to know when I’m doomed and we’re doomed because then you don’t bother trying anymore.”
  • Internet-fueled mobs and human tribalism are discussed as major threats to rational debate.

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2. The Supreme Court, Gender, and Sports

- Setting the Stage: What’s at Stake? (15:37–22:27)

• Supreme Court heard oral arguments on whether states can restrict participation in girls’ sports to biological females.
• Hosts are sharply critical of the linguistic and philosophical “confusion” injected by “radical gender theory.”
• Irreverent humor about names and terminology.

- Key Arguments from the Courtroom (16:46–22:03)

• Ketanji Brown Jackson introduces terms like "cisgender" and "gender identity," which the hosts lampoon.
  • Quote (Jack Armstrong, 17:28): “She said cisgender girls don’t get to play…and that would make us like—the guy’s like, ‘Oh my God, that’s not even a thing. We’re talking about sex’.”
• Justice Samuel Alito pushes the essential question:
  • “Do you agree that a school may have separate teams for boys and girls? … Then we gotta define what a boy and a girl is, right?” (20:09–20:24)
• The logical infinite regress of trying to draw lines between “boys who are girlish enough” to compete is highlighted—it’s “enormously burdensome for everyone.”

- Spicy Supreme Court Back-and-Forth

• Legal technicalities meet common sense: What actually defines "boy" and "girl"? Can you base it on testosterone? Is such line-drawing even possible?
• The oral argument exposes the logical, practical, and legal absurdities of extending gender fluidity to competitive sports.

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3. Interview: Anastasia Bowden, Pacific Legal Foundation (25:48–39:02)

- The Current Legal Landscape

• 23:30–26:00: Bowden explains that 27 states have passed laws restricting sports participation to biological sex—with public opinion and science now largely backing these laws.
• This Supreme Court case could either simply validate those state laws or have much wider effects (“Does it mean that states must separate by biological sex? Or does it merely mean that laws that choose to separate by biological sex are constitutional?”).
• Humanizing the issue: Female athletes’ real-world experiences of unfairness when competing against biological males.

- Slippery Slopes & Line-Drawing Dilemmas

• The conversation explores absurd hypothetical consequences if line-drawing isn’t based on straightforward sex:
  • Could universities create separate chess teams if men perform better at chess? “Does that now mean that schools can create a remedial program for men and exclude women?”
• Hosts are adamant that only immutable characteristics (like biological sex) should define protected classes under civil rights law.
  • “It seemed pretty clear to me, and I’m not a constitutional lawyer, but you have a self evident class, male and female, that has never in the history of humankind been disputed…” (30:20)

- Potential Issues for Title IX and Beyond

• If “gender identity” supplants “sex” in Title IX, the law’s original intent is undermined, leading to endless, cumbersome individual assessments.
• Bowden suggests the court will likely take a “narrow” decision, but might have to confront whether transgender people constitute a protected class.
  • Justice Barrett, in a previous concurring opinion, argued that transgender status is not “immutable” (as race or biological sex is).

Notable Quotes:

• (Anastasia Bowden, 26:00): “Public opinion has really turned and I think that will no doubt have an influence on the court. But yeah, the argument was really interesting, really spicy.”
• (Anastasia Bowden, 38:22): “Being trans is not an immutable characteristic… it’s a huge class of people that’s constantly changing based on a whole bunch of decisions and different traits.”
• (Jack Armstrong, 35:22): “Cool and uncool could not be a protected class. Or fun and a real drag. I mean, for instance.”

- The Absurdity and Public Attitudes

• Hosts and guest express exasperation that society and the courts are “having to answer or ask and answer these questions about the most intrinsic and obvious facets of human life.” (34:38)
• Discussion about the balance of civil rights law—do physical distinctions matter or only self-proclaimed identity?

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Satirizing elaborate identity language, including “trans indigenous” and “trans pigmented”, exposing how far identity discourse has wandered.
• Jack Armstrong’s refrain: “Don’t cede that ground to the radicals. Don’t use their invented terminology.” (44:47)
• The mental image of politicians “riling up” their base (“bomb chuckers”) purely for adoration and media attention.

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Important Timestamps

• 03:08–09:56: Media outrage and online mob mentality; can calm, factual discussion win?
• 09:50: “I like to know when I’m doomed…”—theme for the episode.
• 15:37–22:27: Clips and commentary from the Supreme Court’s oral arguments on transgender athletes in women’s sports.
• 25:48–39:02: Detailed interview with Anastasia Bowden, insight into the legal framework, possible outcomes, and the reality of Title IX.
• 44:47: Mini-rant: “Don’t cede that ground to the radicals…” regarding language.
• 45:13–45:45: Quote from the Free Press: what is “female”, public perception, and the joy in difference.

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Episode Summary & Takeaways

• Media and political discourse: There’s a war between fact-based dialogue and hyperbolic, audience-pleasing "bomb chucking." The latter is winning—for now.
• Supreme Court case: Debates about transgender athletes reveal serious logical, legal, and societal quandaries about definitions of “sex” and “gender.” The outcome could impact far more than sports.
• Interview insights: Public opinion has shifted; 27 states have passed “biological sex in sports” laws. Defining protected classes in civil rights law will shape the legal future for gender and sports.
• Philosophical frustration: The hosts and guest bemoan having to debate issues so basic as “what is a man, what is a woman”—but acknowledge the legal system must address them.
• Final advice: Avoid the negativity of online comment sections; don’t mindlessly adopt fashionable language that muddles basic concepts.

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Notable Quotes

• “My view is I think it’s essential to be honest with people and not hyperbolic. Focus on serious threats… Especially because the latter diminishes credibility of those offering criticism.”
  — Joe Getty, 08:18
• “I like to know when I’m doomed and we’re doomed because then you don’t bother trying anymore.”
  — Jack Armstrong, 09:50
• “Don’t cede that ground to the radicals. Don’t use their invented terminology.”
  — Jack Armstrong, 44:47
• “If we think female means human beings with low circulating testosterone, then of course, anyone who fits that category should be allowed to play in female sports. But most Americans do not take that view about what a woman is and never have…”
  — Quoting Free Press, 45:13

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Conclusion

A quintessential Armstrong & Getty hour: incisive, skeptical, and often hilarious, the episode both mocks and mourns modern identity politics while illuminating the profound social and legal issues at stake in the Supreme Court's gender sports cases. The takeaway: facts matter, language matters, and—unfortunately—American society is locked in ongoing battles over reality itself.

Transcript

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[Anastasia Bowden]

What's next? Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong Strong and get it. Man.

[Joe Getty]

What is better than coffee when you're needing it? A sip of coffee. Very few things that don't include friction of naked bodies. I mean it's, it's right up there.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't get it.

[Joe Getty]

So you gotta see the visual for this.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is, this is a troll.

[Joe Getty]

He's a troll. He's trying to cause problems. And it's a guy addressed in kind of cartoonish like Indian gear, Native American gear. He's got a headdress on, he's got some colored stripes on his cheeks, that sort of thing. And he's there in Minnesota confronting some of the people protesting ice. And this is what he says.

[Guest or Caller]

I'm trans indigenous.

[Jack Armstrong]

Trans indigenous.

[Guest or Caller]

Are you, are you CIS American? I'm trans indigenous for ice. We love ice. We love ice to port them all. You're all trespassers on our land. Well, trans indigenous people are indigenous people and you're all trespassers on our land. And we want Bovino to deport all of you guys. We love ice. Trans natives love ice. We love you, ice.

[Jack Armstrong]

What nation are you?

[Guest or Caller]

We love ice. The trans nation. Trans nation is just as valid as CIS nations. You're not transnatophobic, are you? No, but I'm just checking you're a CIS American. I'm trans indigenous. You really need to check your privilege cuz you're talking to a beautiful trans indigenous person of color right now.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm.

[Joe Getty]

I believe that I am.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I'm hoping to learn more about your personal.

[Guest or Caller]

I'll educate you because you're CIS pigmented.

[Joe Getty]

And I'm trans pigmented. So the best part about that to me was that the guy that the troll was talking to didn't have you know, the courage to like say I get out of here, you idiot, or whatever that's. He had to take it seriously because he didn't, you know, he wasn't exactly sure what was going on here. But a lot of those terms, he's very sensitive to me around.

[Jack Armstrong]

But you're using my terminology, so I don't know what to do.

[Joe Getty]

Are you hostile to cis trans indigenous people? Well, no, but I just wonder what you believe in because he's, you know, he's got to be very careful. He knows these are hot, hot terms.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. That guy was in New York, wasn't he, during some of the pro Hamas protests. I love that bit. It's such a good bit. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

We are living in weird times. I don't know if you notice that. So this is an interesting one on connecting Iran and Greenland. So I don't know if you know who David Frum is. He was a speechwriter, I think, for George W. Bush, but he's one of those people that have realized, and he doesn't like Trump, that's fine. That's perfectly legit. That he doesn't like Trump and he's a Republican who, you know, wanted to go, never Trump. But then he, like a lot of people, cross over into. Wait a second. What happened to all of these issues that you cared about as a conservative? Now you go on MSNBC or whatever channel and bash everything conservatives do and you're making lots of money. And he's one of those guys. Drives me nuts. Anyway, David from had tweeted out trump lets Iranian freedom marchers die while preparing to kill Danish NATO comrades. Now, that was attached to a tweet. I hadn't heard this, and I guess it's true. It's from open source. Open source int. Which is intelligence, which is usually accurate. That said, Denmark is deploying an advanced command to Greenland consisting of military material support and forward personnel ahead of a large force from the army that is expected to arrive soon on the territory, in addition to aircraft from the Royal Danish Air Force. Is that true? Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Are the dates. I suspect it is.

[Joe Getty]

You think the Danes are preparing for military action against the United States?

[Jack Armstrong]

That would be looney tunes. I don't know why they would.

[Joe Getty]

Tweak.

[Jack Armstrong]

Trump that way unless it was a statement of what he said is way over the line. It's improper. And, you know, if you're gonna come for us, come for us. We're not putting up with that sort of talk from an ally, which I don't blame them. I. As you know, I've been rather critical of Trump's rhetoric on Greenland.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I don't think he should talk as if it's even on the table to possibly even take it militarily. But I'm surprised Denmark's replaying. But anyway, yeah, that's not really where I'm going here. So David Fromm attaches his tweet to that Trump lets Iranian freedom fighter marchers die while preparing to kill Danish NATO comrades, typical online sort of behavior. And Ian Bremmer, who I don't agree with semi regularly on his politics, really is a force for calming things down online, always, it seems to me. And he responded to David from these are both very high profile people, Ian Bremmer and David from. Ian Bremmer responded with Trump not in fact preparing to kill Danish NATO comrades. Which is a good thing to point out.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, no kidding. Don't let facts get in the way of a good tweet.

[Joe Getty]

Lots of responses like, it's incredibly naive and overly smug of you to, to at this point take the administration at their word, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Ian saying, my view is I think it's essential to be honest with people and not hyperbolic. Focus on serious threats where there's danger in his mind, Ian's mind, to the independence of the Fed, or suspending defense intel support to Ukraine and pushing back on headlines where there isn't any serious threat. Especially because the latter diminishes credibility of those offering criticism. Love that sort of talk for Ian Bremmer, trying to talk people out. Don't go around saying Trump's planning to kill Danes when he's not. That doesn't help anything. But the question is, and the questioner of our time really is, who's gonna win the day? People like Ian and I think us who are trying to calm things down and, and sometimes say, look, I, I agree with this person, he's on my side. But that's not true, what they just said. Are we gonna win the day or the David Frums or the, the bomb checkers or the exaggerate and, you know, preach to the choir crowd and get them all riled up. Is, is that gonna win the day? And I actually don't know. I don't know. I think it's a coin flip.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I just, I think both things will, like, coexist and wash back and forth and fight for supremacy for the rest of our lives.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know if that's gonna be good enough. I think, I think our side needs to clearly win the day or we're doomed to. If it's a, then we're doomed.

[Jack Armstrong]

I like to know when I'm doomed and we're doomed because then you don't bother trying anymore.

[Joe Getty]

So your p. Doom is 100% and very soon.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's an interesting question.

[Joe Getty]

It's 100%, but maybe not soon.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? Yeah. I think the animal instincts of human beings are difficult to contain when they become a mob and the Internet has allowed for the instantaneous forming of mobs.

[Joe Getty]

Well, here's. Here's something. Joe and I have talked about this a little on the air and a lot off the air about whether or not we could be much, much more wealthy if we would just play the game that, you know, Megyn Kelly seems to be playing and lots of people are playing. I wish we could try it on just to see what it feels like, but, you know, you lose all credibility and we'd lose lots of listeners and that sort of stuff. But I would like to try it on just to, like, tell a certain chunk of the crowd exactly what they want to hear. Our side's always right, the other side's always wrong. And just play that for a while.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'll bet it feels pretty good.

[Joe Getty]

You know, do more live appearances where you get in front of a crowd and you say exactly what they want and they're cheering.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, yeah. For the record, our discussions are mostly just a mental exercise because neither one of us has the inclination to do that. But it's. It's much easier. Much easier. Oh, my gosh.

[Joe Getty]

I kind of believe it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, of course it is. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Eliminating, you know, ambivalence or there's some truth to that, but maybe it's gone too far. Blah, blah, blah. And just my side's always right, the other side's always wrong. So and so's a hero. So and so's a fiend. Never any nuance or gray area. Yeah, that'd be effortless.

[Joe Getty]

Well, not only would it just be easier. Easier rhetorically. I just.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, that's what I'm all about. Ease. But go on.

[Joe Getty]

The people cheering you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

That have to be pretty fun. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

I like to feel that we're cheered in our own way, but no, you're right. I don't disagree with anything you've said. We do.

[Joe Getty]

I won't mention the name because she was really nice, but there was a bomb chucker fox presence that we did an event with one time and she did that act and just watching the adoration of the crowd, as she said, the most, like, simplistic, basic, exactly what they want to hear sort of stuff. And it was something to watch.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And it's tempting in a weird way.

[Joe Getty]

But again, anyway, I just wonder who's going to win the day from David, from a smart guy who's a speechwriter for a president going around saying, and Trump's planning to kill Danish soldiers. No, he's not. You know he's not and what are you doing?

[Jack Armstrong]

David Frum is a DC climber. Like all DC climbers. Yeah, he's a bright guy, but he's a phony. Speaking of phony and phony arguments, what our plan is this gonna take a break. Come back. Next segment we're gonna play you some of the key clips from the oral arguments before the Supreme Court yesterday about the gender bending madness in sports, specifically dudes who want to compete against girls because they say I'm a girl now, as ridiculous as that is. And then the next segment, we'll talk to Anastasia Bowden, senior attorney at the Pacific Legal foundation about her take on the oral arguments and also a couple other big time cases that the SCOTUS is taking a look at. So all of that to come. Stay with us.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Joe Getty]

It's only banning transgender athletes from playing on the girls team, Right? So it isn't a ban in totality on playing sports. It's a ban on playing sports on.

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A team with people who don't have.

[Joe Getty]

The same gender, character or sex characteristics that you do.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, he corrected himself to not get mixed up in the whole radical gender theory thing. It's a question of sex. Supreme Court hearing arguments yesterday about a pair of cases that had to do with boys who claim to be girls playing in girl sports and the whole transgender thing.

[Joe Getty]

One of the boys who says they're now a woman is named Hecox, which.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is absolutely amazing, childish and irrelevant.

[Joe Getty]

That's true. It's true though.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is true. Yes. Anastasia Bowden of the Pacific Legal foundation will be joining us next segment. But we wanted to play a handful of clips. Maybe you heard these early in the show. If you've been listening the whole time. If you have, God bless you. Thank you for listening. But these are so interesting. Number one, we'll start with 55. This is Ketanji Brown Jackson. She utters certain words that have not been heard in the Supreme Court before and I hope never will be again.

[Anastasia Bowden]

You have the overarching classification.

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

You know, everybody has to be.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Play on the team that is the same as their sex at birth. But then you have a gender identity.

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

Definition that is operating within that meaning.

[Anastasia Bowden]

A distinction, meaning that for cisgender girls, they can play consistent with their gender identity. For transgender girls, they can't.

[Guest or Caller]

So I think that, okay, you're as to the part about your ability to pass over from boy to girl, yes, you can go from one way but not the other. I Want to be clear that BBJ is not challenging that.

[Jack Armstrong]

We don't need to hear that because it gets into legalese. But you could tell. She said cisgender girls don't get to play in the sport of their choice. And that would make us like, the guy's like, oh, my God, that's not even a thing. We're talking about sex. He won't even. And he shouldn't concede the use of the term cisgender and transgender because they're part of radical gender theory, and they have nothing to do with the question of boys playing in girls sports. It's all about sex, period. Don't get confused by their tech, by their terminology. That's why they use all that complex terminology is to confuse people. Don't get caught up in it. Samuel Alito, who I hope lives for a very long time, got into it with the pro boys playing girls sports side, and it went like this.

[Joe Getty]

Well, to pick up on the issue of discrimination on the basis of transgender status. Let me just go back to. Let me go to some basics. Do you agree that a school may have separate teams for a category of.

[Jack Armstrong]

Students classified as boys and a category of students classified. Classified as girls?

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

Yes, your honor.

[Joe Getty]

If it does that, then is it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Not necessary for there to be, for equal protection purposes, if that is challenged under the equal protection clause, an understanding.

[Joe Getty]

Of what it means to be a.

[Jack Armstrong]

Boy or a girl or a man or a woman?

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

Yes, your honor.

[Joe Getty]

And what is that definition for equal protection purposes? What does. What does it mean to be a boy or a girl or a man or a woman?

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I think that the underlying enactment, whatever it was, the policy, the law, the. Would have to. We'd have to have an understanding of how the state or the government was just understanding that term to figure out whether or not someone was excluded. We do not have a definition for the court, and we don't take issue with the. We're not disputing the definition here. What we're saying is that the way it applies in practice is to exclude birth sex males categorically from women's teams and that there's a subset of those birth sex males where it doesn't make sense to do so according to the state's own interest.

[Joe Getty]

Well, how can you. How can a court determine whether there's discrimination on the basis of sex without knowing what sex means for equal protection purposes?

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

I think here we just notice. We basically know that the. That they've identified pursuant to their own statute. Lindsay qualifies as a birth sex male, and she's being excluded categorically from the women's teams as the statute. So we're taking the statute's definitions as we find them, and we don't dispute them. We're just trying to figure out, do they create an equal protection problem?

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, how many. One of the smartest people in America faced with, look, what's a man or what's a woman? Because we got to define that.

[Joe Getty]

The reason I thought that was a booyah boom shot. I mean, it's. That's a. That's a pretty good way to boil it down. Do you think there should be boys games and girls teams? Yes. Okay, well, then we gotta define what a boy and a girl is. Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. And finally, this. This is one of the attorneys who was talking to Elena Kagan, who is very, very, very bright, talking about how what you're saying is you can exclude boys from girls sports unless they're essentially so girlish they ought to be able to play. But where does that end? It sounded like this.

[Guest or Caller]

I'm having trouble coming up with what it could look like because it will always be possible to carve the class down further. Right. I mean, so if they say that their class, that their subclass, I guess, subclass of males is males who identify as transgender, then we would come back and say, well, only something like 10% of males who identify as transgender take the testosterone suppression. And then they might say, well, okay, no, the class is just the males who take testosterone suppression. And then we might come back and say, well, according to the record, according to their own expert of males who take testosterone suppression, only one quarter of them are able to achieve the appropriate, you know, like to. Able to achieve ordinary levels of testosterone for women, and the other three quarters would still have an advantage. And therefore we'd be justified. 75% pretty good fit. An intermediate scrutiny, and we'd be justified with the law. But then they can just change the class again. They can say, aha. No, our class is males who identify as transgender, who suppress their testosterone and who suppress their testosterone successfully and are able to get it down to where they don't have a competitive advantage. And at that point, we can say, if you can define the class so precisely, you're going to force the state to define the class that precisely it's going to be enormously burdensome for everyone, and the state can never win because whenever the state points to the fit in the statute, they just redefine their class as only the people who are outside the fit. Thank you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's a powerful argument. I hope you followed it at least to some extent. And we'll follow up again with the fabulous Anastasia Bowden from the Pacific Legal foundation in just moments.

[Joe Getty]

I wish they'd release their ruling, especially if it's if they're all like this one's obvious soon because you got a whole spring full of high school sports that are going to happen around the country.

[Jack Armstrong]

Now you got to write them out with all the fancy words in the citations. Who has the time?

[Sponsor Announcer]

Armstrong and Getty Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index, and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure [e-mail] Disclosures want to score.

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Anastasia Bowden]

Z Studio for details this notion that this is really just about the definition.

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

Of.

[Jack Armstrong]

Who we accept that you can.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Accept separate boys and girls and we are now looking at the definition of a girl and we're saying only people who were girl assigned at birth qualify.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, people assigned it signed their sex at birth. It's observed. Anyway, it's all about the lingo with the progressive activists and radical gender theory. They were before the Supreme Court yesterday. A couple of courses involved, I'm sorry, a couple of cases involving boys playing in girl sports. And Anastasia Bowden, the senior attorney for equality and opportunity, the Pacific Legal foundation, was like us, listening and watching with great interest and has thoughts on what happened. Anastasia, welcome.

[Joe Getty]

How are you?

[Anastasia Bowden]

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

[Jack Armstrong]

So with the appropriate inevitable caveats that it's difficult to read the tea leaves, blah blah, blah from the oral arguments, what did you think of the whole thing?

[Anastasia Bowden]

Yeah, you know, less difficult to read here than the usual case, especially given that even the Washington Post yesterday, the headline before oral arguments was that neither public opinion nor scientific consensus support the people challenging these laws that limit sports to biological sex. So, you know, I think public opinion has really turned and I think that will no doubt have an influence on the court. But yeah, the argument was really interesting, really spicy. And just to give you some background, you know, given this recent phenomenon, phenomenon of trans women competing in female sports, 27 states have passed laws now limiting sports to biological sex. So that's the majority. And again, you can really see how the tide has turned. But of course, Idaho and West Virginia were among the first. And so this involves a challenge to their laws by trans people in sports who want to compete in women's sports. So you have the athletes on one side, the states on the other. And then we actually had some interveners who were female athletes who feel that this is unconstitutional. Their briefs were really particularly interesting because it puts it in human terms and they talk about how they ran on the women's tracking cross country teams at their university, and they lost by a significant margin to a male athlete who identified as a female and who had competed the previous year on the men's team and recorded times that would have broken national women's records. So you can see why they might feel aggrieved. And it led to this lawsuit. And yesterday was oral argument.

[Joe Getty]

So one thing I don't completely understand, if the Supreme Court decides that, yes, these states can have laws banning trans boys from. I always get that.

[Jack Armstrong]

As you know, I'm a conscientious objector to even using those terms because it seeds the linguistic ground to the radical left. But go on, Jack.

[Joe Getty]

Sorry. But anyway, if the Supreme Court says, yeah, these states can do that, does that have any effect on like, California where they haven't banned anything?

[Anastasia Bowden]

Yeah. So that was a big part of the discussion was what are the consequences of this case? Does it mean that states must separate by biological sex? Or does it merely mean that laws that choose to separate by biological sex are constitutional and do not violate our civil rights laws? And neither side really wanted to get into that. They just wanted to fight over these terms because the consequences could be really far reaching on the other side, because, you know, in the first lawsuit, the first law, there's two lawsuits, one against West Virginia and one against Idaho. And in the first lawsuit, the challenger is actually an athlete who had taken some strides to eliminate their so called physical biological advantage by taking, suppressing their testosterone for one year. And so they said, hey, maybe you can separate men and women by sex, but not me, because I have eliminated my physical advantage. But as the justices pointed out, the question then becomes, okay, well, do we have to let in all men now who don't have a physical advantage for whatever reason, men who are shorter, who happen to have less testosterone?

[Joe Getty]

You know, there's people who aren't very athletic, like myself. Would I count?

[Anastasia Bowden]

Exactly right. But on the other hand, I'm accepting that your hypothetical to be true, then. Yes, exactly right. Well, we have to let you in too. But on the other hand, hand, you know, the other side wants to argue that you have to have strict lines based on differences. And then the justice says, the justices said, well, does that mean that universities can create different programs for chess? Because we know that men perform better at chess. The science is there. Does that mean now that they can discriminate against women in chess? Because you're saying that universities have to draw this bright line. Or what about, we know that in some areas and of course it depends on subject and whatnot, but in some areas, women perform better academically. Does that now mean that schools can create a remedial program for men and exclude women? So there was a lot of line drawing problems on either side, and both parties just wanted to skirt that and say, hey, let's just talk about this case and how far this case.

[Joe Getty]

I didn't know men were generally better than chess than women.

[Jack Armstrong]

Didn't know that I'm terrible at chess, for the record. So, Anastasia, it's where you have. It seemed pretty clear to me, and I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but you have a self evident class, male and female, that has never in the history of humankind been disputed. And the argument that, well, there are some men that are so girlish that let's not even count them as men is just utterly unworkable on a societal level. As we played one of the clips in the last segment, and I suspect you're right that the Supreme Court is going to go the way it should. It seems clear that they will. But am I also correct that they didn't really get into Title nine per se? Because if, if you recognize that there are men and there are women, but some men are not very manly, so we gotta let them in with the. You've gotta tear up Title IX and end it because it has no meaning anymore. It gets into an incredibly cumbersome how manly is he individual test in every aspect of American life that's affected by Title 9.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And what's interesting is a few years ago, under Title 6, which governs discrimination in the workplace, there was a Supreme Court case asking whether. Which again forbids discrimination on the basis of sex in the workplace necessarily also bans discrimination on the basis of transgender status. And Justice Gorsuch in that case wrote the opinion saying, you know, discrimination based on sex is necessarily discrimination based on transgender status. And so now the plaintiffs are seizing on that in this case and saying, see, the same thing is true in Title ix. But Title IX really brings out the absurdity of that argument. Because, you know, if you talk about workplace discrimination, it's easy to say, okay, we shouldn't have to. You know, I think the equities are like, okay, let's not discriminate. We don't want to have discrimination against transgender people. But in Title nine, you are now pitting women against the transgender people. Because saying that we can't discriminate against transgender people now necessarily infringes the right of women to compete fairly which was the entire purpose of Title ix.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Anastasia Bowden]

It's true. Title IX is bringing out a lot of these absurdities that have sort of been swept under the rug in previous cases and showing how the whole thing really is not workable. In the same way, if it comes.

[Joe Getty]

Down to a how manly is the man? Can he participate in women's sports or men's sports? Then you got a guy who drives a truck, but like salsa dancing, you know, it's a tweener. You got to try to figure out case by case.

[Jack Armstrong]

Incredibly cumbersome.

[Joe Getty]

I've. I've heard some legal experts say this could be like very narrow. It's just, oh, it upholds these states. That said you can't do this and doesn't go any further than that. Another I've heard other legal experts say this could like have an effect on, you know, the whole gender neutral bathroom thing and all kinds of far reaching parts of the trans discussion. Where do you land on that?

[Anastasia Bowden]

You know, the court likes to take incremental steps. Everybody thinks that the court is some imperial court just imposing their opinions and taking over the world. When in reality, if you look at it, the court is doing less work than ever. They're taking fewer cases.

[Jack Armstrong]

Me too.

[Guest or Caller]

They.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Yeah, but I would like the court to do more. You know, that's their job. They're the last bastion for our liberties when the legislature fails to protect our rights. And so there I think it'll be narrow. And what's even more interesting is one of the plaintiffs in the case, the plaintiff who took steps to mitigate their physical advantage due to sex, actually asked the court to dismiss their case. That person said, I don't plan on doing sports anymore in college. Just dismiss this case. I don't want to deal with it. And the court so far has said no, we're going to hear it anyway. We already granted cert. You can't change your mind now that we granted cert and try to get the case dismissed. But that's a pretty interesting thing. That's very unusual. Typically if plaintiffs went out of a case, the court is more than happy to get it off their docket and not have to deal with these hot button topics. And I kind of wonder now, after or argument, which was pretty difficult to sort through, if the court will in fact dismiss that case because the plaintiff doesn't want it.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I need to at least briefly tip my cap again to the notion that I can't believe we're having to answer or ask and answer these questions about the most intrinsic and obvious facets of human life. But help me out, because I'm not a constitutional attorney. There is a very brief description of what forms a class of people like a protected class. Does that ring a bell?

[Anastasia Bowden]

Yes. Typically our civil rights laws and equal protection law protects classes with traits.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm sorry, can you repeat that? You glitch out.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Oh, yes. Typically our civil rights laws protect, you know, classes of people with immutable characteristics.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right, exactly. So, like, cool and uncool could not be a protected class or fun and a real drag. I mean, for instance.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Exactly.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

We played earlier a guy who goes to generally left wing protests, and he claims to be trans, indigenous. He is a white guy, but he's now he identifies as an indigenous person. And to me, it's as absurd to claim you are a woman as a man because you've decided to be a woman. I mean, otherwise you could, like, have exceptions to civil rights law. For a black guy who, like to cite some terrible cliches, doesn't like to dance and quote, unquote, sounds like a white man and is a Republican and the rest of it, because psychically, psychologically, his self conception is very much white. I mean, that is considered repugnant and silly. But to say, well, I'm totally a girl now, so I mean, and I grant that there could be neurological situations, but didn't you get the sense that Justice Alito especially was asking, what the hell are we talking about here?

[Anastasia Bowden]

Oh, yeah. And you know, I love Justice Alito argument. He's a fantastic lawyer and he acts like a lawyer on the bench. And, you know, one of the things he said in argument yesterday was, well, how about those women who don't want to compete against trans athletes? Are you calling them bigots? You know, he just flat out asked that question. And so he was bringing out some of this absurdity. But another person who has brought out that absurdity is Justice Barrett. Because of course, the plaintiffs here are trying to say, hey, we are a protected class and we have historically been subject to discrimination, and so we get heightened protection under civil rights laws. They say discrimination based on transgender status is special and gets heightened protection compared to anybody else who might sue. And so far, the court hasn't answered that question. But last term, Justice Barrett wrote a separate a concurring opinion that's not binding on the court. But just articulating her views where she said, that can't possibly be true because being trans is not an immutable characteristic. It can mean many things. It's a Huge class of people that's constantly changing based on a whole bunch of decisions and different traits. And you know, it spans all these different ideas of self identification. And also you have not been subject as a class, whatever that class means, to the same type of state sponsored discrimination as say minority races or minority religions. And so she already went out in a separate opinion last year. She stepped out and said that like, hey, this is not a class that gets special protection. So far the court hasn't answered that question and we might get it in this case. And I suspect they will take your view of things, which is we can't even hardly identify this class, let alone say that it's entitled to some sort of special protection.

[Joe Getty]

Last quick question because we're out of time and I'm not trying to be a shock jock here. Did the terms penis or vagina ever come up at any point?

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Anastasia Bowden]

I did hear pelvis.

[Joe Getty]

Kind of interesting when that's where the rubber meets the road.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, you know, sex identified at birth or identified. No, it's assigned, which is hilarious. And again, prejudicial. Verbally speaking. Anastasia has written a really super interesting column. The most unorthodox dissent you've never read about the presidential war powers. I'm afraid we're out of time but we'll have a link at Armstrong&getty.com. it's definitely worth a think. Anastasia, I wish we had more time, but we'll talk again soon. Well done. Thanks.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Thanks for having me by.

[Joe Getty]

Maybe those terms had come up at some Clarence Thomas. Does this person have a penis or a vagina? You know, that sort of thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Did they ever have a penis?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, just, you know, getting down to the nuts and bolts of it. If you.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, they didn't. No.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, we will finish strong.

[Anastasia Bowden]

Next, Armstrong and Getty.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus with you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, LLC SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures nothing.

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[Cindy Crawford]

Better hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Saba and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty confidence is beautiful. Learn [e-mail].

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[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, Trump is still talking about taking over Greenland and he said that if.

[Joe Getty]

We invaded, their only defense would be two dog sleds. Kristi Gnome was like, I can take care of those. Give me one more joke. Michael. Take another shot at a joke. CEO of Chuck E. Cheese said that he wants to make a film about the franchise. It'll be a horror movie when someone.

[Jack Armstrong]

Brings a black light into a Chuck.

[Joe Getty]

E. Cheese which, you know, similar to that movie about Ray Crock and McDonald's could be very interesting. I I like that sort of biopic about somebody starting an incredibly successful business. We have a new highest grossing actor of all time. Up until like yesterday when the new news came out it was Scarlett Johansson. I didn't Realize that she's the highest grossing actor of all time. Now, I gotta believe this stuff is not adjusted for inflation. Almost certainly isn't. Otherwise I think it'd be Schwarzenegger probably.

[Jack Armstrong]

Unless it's a one man show, one woman show. How do you measure it anyway? Because ScarJo's in the silly superhero movies, right?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, but I think they're all ensemble movies, right? Schwarzenegger or Burt Reynolds or, I don't know, lots of people, if he adjusted for inflation, that were really, really big deals back in the day. But anyway, anyway, it's now Zoe Saldana, who I wouldn't have been able to pick out of a lineup actually, but she's 47 years old and she was in those Avatar movies and all three of them have been giant. The like top three grossing movies of all time. Again, not adjusted for inflation because they never do for these things and have.

[Jack Armstrong]

And as you know, learned commentators have mentioned, nobody ever referenced is thumb. Never. Nobody ever like draws a metaphor or cites a key line or.

[Joe Getty]

They have no mind.

[Jack Armstrong]

This reminds me of what? Never.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, as art. They have no mind. Share. It's interesting.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, there's Jack and there's Joe with the help of Katie Green and Michelangelo. Why are you lurking in the store?

[Joe Getty]

You go. Whoever that is isn't lurking at the edge of the woods. Here's your host for final thoughts, Joe Oetti.

[Jack Armstrong]

Let's get a final thought from everybody on the crew to wrap up the show. There he is, Michelangelo, our technical director. Michael, what's your final thought?

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

I'm looking forward to one more thing today.

[Jack Armstrong]

Katie stopped me this morning and said I got a really good thing for.

[Joe Getty]

One more thing today and she didn't.

[Jack Armstrong]

Want to reveal what it was.

[Joe Getty]

So awesome.

[Jack Armstrong]

So tune in. All right, great. Speaking of Katie Green, our esteemed newswoman. Katie, what's your final thought? Thought?

[Anastasia Bowden]

My final thought is that I'm feeling.

[Guest or Caller]

A new form of anger every time.

[Jack Armstrong]

I hear CIS woman. Yeah, I know, I know. Don't cede that ground to the radicals. Don't use their invented terminology. Jack, a final thought. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

I'm gonna try to pull myself out of reading any of y' all comments on anything. And whether you're commenting on us or just stuff in general, the comment section of the world is a disaster disease and it will only make you less happy. That is, that has been my experience.

[Jack Armstrong]

And give you a distorted idea of what people think. Yeah, very much. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, to quote a great piece in the Free Press, if we think female means human beings with Low circulating testosterone. Then of course, anyone who fits that category should be allowed to play in female sports. But most Americans do not take that view about what a woman is and never have I recognized the difference between men and women and been delighted by it from a very early age. Trust me, I'm an expert.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty wrapping up another grueling four hour workday.

[Jack Armstrong]

So many people. Thanks. A little time. Go to Armstrong and getty.com drop us a reasonable intelligent note. Mailbag@armstrong and getty.com hit the hot links, hit Katie's Corner, pick up some swag. Get the f y' all looking party T shirts. Sure. We're about to have our first convention next year. We're not. Not really. We'll see you tomorrow.

[Joe Getty]

God bless America.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michelangelo (Technical Director)]

Get out of here.

[Jack Armstrong]

Audio. So it's a hustle. Yeah, it's kind of bogus.

[Joe Getty]

It's a wild animal, Joey, baby.

[Guest or Caller]

Yes, we drank beer.

[Jack Armstrong]

I tell you what. You got a a tiger and two monkeys. Get a case of beer, you got a party. Experts tell me all bloody hell is going to break loose.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, then we'll bring this fool. Man, Your name's not butt 3000. You yo ho. On that high note, thank you all very much.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty want to score when.

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[Anastasia Bowden]

What's next?

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But if you've forgotten to get that.

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So here's the idea. You get it now.

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What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time.

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[Jack Armstrong]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of.

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[Jack Armstrong]

Guaranteed human.