Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: If Both Sides Stop Keeping Score... David Drucker Talks to A&G
Date: September 17, 2025
Guests: David Drucker (The Dispatch, author of "In Trump’s Shadow")
Theme: Political polarization, the incentives shaping political civility, and whether politicians like Governor Cox can change the national tone.

Main Theme / Episode Overview

This episode centers on the aftermath of the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk and uses it as a lens to examine the escalating polarization in American politics. The hosts are joined by David Drucker—a senior writer for The Dispatch and author of "In Trump’s Shadow"—to discuss why efforts for civility (like those of Utah Governor Cox) rarely transcend state boundaries, the roots of the "fighter" mentality in partisan politics, and whether there is any path away from the growing "race to the bottom" in political tactics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Context: Polarization after Political Violence

[01:04 - 01:27]

• Governor Cox of Utah’s statement following Charlie Kirk’s assassination was highlighted as a call to unity and defense of American civic values.
• Drucker and the hosts recognize that while such statements are praised, skepticism remains about their practical impact nationally.

2. The Dispatch’s Editorial Philosophy

[02:00 - 02:56]

• Drucker praises The Dispatch for its trust in reporters and its commitment to context and accuracy—prioritizing thoughtful analysis over clickbait and hot takes.
  • "They give me the freedom to report news, to report good stories... And the fact that we just don't do clickbait." — David Drucker [02:14]
• The Dispatch purposely waits for factual clarity before commenting on breaking events, valuing context above speed.

3. Governor Cox and Utah’s Unique Political Culture

[03:36 - 07:49]

• Drucker explains that Cox’s civility works because Utah Republicans have a "Reagan-era" sense of decency, even when critical of Trump.
  • "The incentive structure that he gets from Utah Republican voters is different than Republican voters in other states." — David Drucker [04:10]
• Utah’s GOP electorate allows criticism of Trump without political reprisal, a dynamic absent elsewhere.
• Cox and Romney’s ability to win as principled critics of Trump is peculiar to Utah’s distinctive blend of values and voter expectations.

4. Could Cox’s Tone Work Nationally?

[07:49 - 08:43]

• Drucker doubts whether a less-combative, conciliatory Republican like Cox could win a national primary, especially against combative populists.
  • "I don't know that a Republican like Governor Cox can win a Republican primary against a combative populist like J.D. Vance..." — David Drucker [07:55-08:00]
• Republican primary voters now prefer "fighters" over conciliators.

5. The 'Fighter' Mentality and Political Imitation

[08:43 - 11:37]

• The demand for a “fighter” is why voters accept Trump’s provocative tone, feeling he’s an effective bulwark against the perceived dirty tricks of Democrats.
  • "He's a fighter. He's fighting for us. He is not allowing the Democrats to do... unfair things..." — David Drucker [08:43]
• Republicans, seeing Democrats succeed using hardball tactics in the past, now imitate those strategies (e.g., boycotts, executive overreach).
  • "Republicans in a sense said, well, if you can't beat them, join them." — David Drucker [11:36]
• Both parties claim the other plays dirtier, fueling a cycle where each escalation justifies another.

6. The Race to the Bottom: Can It End?

[12:39 - 14:59]

• The hosts ask how the political "race to the bottom" can stop when both sides feel justified retaliating against perceived wrongs.
  • "Each side thinks the other side fights dirtier than them, so we need to adopt their tactics. Both sides think that." — Armstrong or Getty [12:39]
• Drucker shares a personal anecdote: lasting marriages and, by analogy, healthy democracy require "sometimes you have to know when to punt"—to let go of keeping score and not always retaliate.
  • "The only way that any of this stops is if... both sides stop keeping score and just stop." — David Drucker [13:20]
  • "If you look at the United States of America like an extended big family, we never punt." — David Drucker [14:21]
• They conclude grimly that, without such restraint, the current pattern can only end badly.

Memorable Quotes

• “The incentive structure that [Cox] gets from Utah Republican voters is different than Republican voters in other states.” — David Drucker [04:10]
• "You can be critical of Donald Trump in Utah and win a Republican primary." — David Drucker [06:16]
• “I don't know that a Republican like Governor Cox can win a Republican primary against a combative populist like J.D. Vance...” — David Drucker [07:55-08:00]
• “He's fighting for us. He is not allowing the Democrats to do the sort of unfair things that we believe for years they were doing...” — David Drucker [08:43]
• "Republicans in a sense said, well, if you can't beat them, join them." — David Drucker [11:36]
• "The only way that any of this stops is if somebody or both sides stop keeping score and just stop." — David Drucker [13:20]
• "If you look at the United States of America like an extended big family, we never punt." — David Drucker [14:21]

Important Timestamps

• [01:04] – Reflections on the Charlie Kirk assassination and national impact
• [02:00] – What sets The Dispatch apart in the media
• [04:05] – Why Cox’s tone works in Utah, but likely not nationwide
• [07:55] – The national Republican preference for "fighters"
• [08:43] – Explaining the ‘fighter’ mentality among voters
• [11:36] – The cycle of mimicking the other side’s tactics
• [13:20] – The "keeping score" metaphor and the need to punt
• [14:21] – “If you look at the USA like a family, we never punt.”

Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode is thoughtful and somber, with candid acknowledgment of the deep divides in American politics. Drucker and the hosts share a slight nostalgia for a less combative era, but also a pragmatic skepticism about the likelihood of a return to civility without fundamental changes in political incentives.

Final note: The significance of political restraint and ending the cycle of escalation is underscored, but no one on the panel holds out much hope it will happen soon.