Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: I'm Trying To Get Hypnagogic
Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Joe & Jack (Armstrong & Getty)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Armstrong & Getty dive into the concept of the hypnagogic state—the unique mental space between wakefulness and sleep. The hosts explore how this state fosters creativity, referencing famous examples like Paul McCartney and Keith Richards. They share personal stories about meditation, idleness, and strategies to encourage creativity and contentment. The conversation is candid, humorous, and reflective, inviting listeners to consider boredom and mindfulness as keys to inspiration and well-being.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the Hypnagogic State

• Joe introduces the topic playfully, clarifying that "hypnagogic" refers to the twilight zone between sleep and wakefulness—a period scientifically linked to heightened creativity.
  • Quote:

    "It's the twilight zone between sleep and wakefulness. And there is ample evidence that it's like the most creative space your brain can be in."
    —Joe (02:59)

• Jack clarifies that this state is typically experienced while waking up or falling asleep.

2. Creativity & the Subconscious

• Examples from Music:
  • Paul McCartney: Woke up with the entire melody for "Yesterday"; initially used the phrase "scrambled eggs" as a placeholder lyric.
    • Quote:

      "For about a month, I went around to people in the music business and asked them whether they had ever heard it before. I thought if no one claimed it after a few weeks, then I could have it."
      —Joe quoting McCartney (04:07)

  • Keith Richards: Wrote the "Satisfaction" riff in his sleep, discovering it had been recorded overnight on his cassette.
    • Quote:

      "He rewound it and listened to it. And he had zero memory of playing that riff in the middle of the night."
      —Joe (04:52)

• Practical Lesson:
  • Both hosts stress the need to record or write down ideas immediately before they fade.
    • Jack: "I've definitely learned that if you have those kind of moments...you gotta write them down or they're gone." (05:10)

3. Scientific Studies on Creativity

• Reference to a 2021 study showing participants in a hypnagogic state were three times more likely to solve a mathematical problem due to insight.
• Discussion about the interplay of the brain's cognitive control network (problem solving/planning) and the default mode network (daydreaming/mind wandering) in creativity.

4. Advocacy for Idleness, Boredom & Mindfulness

• Joe champions daily boredom and relaxation as fuel for creativity. He intentionally avoids using his phone while idling in places like waiting rooms.
  • Quote:

    "I've become a believer that you've got to let your mind unwind, and it takes a minute."
    —Joe (08:46)

• Jack shares he meditates for 20 minutes daily after work, writing down fears and resentments beforehand. Missing meditation feels "intolerable."
  • Quote:

    "If I do miss at this point, it's almost intolerable. So I don't know what happened there, but if I miss a day, it is so freaking noticeable."
    —Jack (09:12)

• Both reflect on unplugging and just being present, whether during meditation, walking, or traveling.

5. Meditation Types & Experiences

• Jack uses Transcendental Meditation (TM) with a personal mantra, having tried and failed at other methods. He admits skepticism about the "scammy" aspects—like paying for the mantra and bringing fruit, cloth, and flowers—but affirms its positive impact on life.
  • Quote:

    "The whole thing sounds like a scam...All I know is it's the only meditation that's ever worked and it's made my life better."
    —Jack (10:22)

• Joe riffs humorously about the requirements, including fruit size.
• Jack notes the fee was over $1,000 and jokes about the cultish appearance, but values the results.

6. Conscious Napping & Historical Creativity

• The hosts discuss Thomas Edison’s conscious napping—holding a metal ball to awaken before deep sleep, harnessing fresh subconscious insights.
  • Quote:

    "Don't think of napping or relaxing as a waste of time. Far from being unproductive, this may lead to the most inspired ideas and insights of our lives."
    —Joe (15:12)

• Philosophy for Listeners:
  • Idleness and mindful relaxation aren’t wasteful; they’re essential for inspiration and happiness.

7. Real-Life Mindfulness—Travel & Manual Work

• Jack recounts spending days alone with thoughts during long motorcycle trips, contrasting the initial struggle with the eventual meditative groove.
  • Quote:

    "When I would first start out on a trip, it was just painful to be there just with my thoughts...but once I'd get in the groove, I could go for hours."
    —Jack (12:02)

• The hosts reflect on past generations, like farmers, who found contentment in sustained idleness.

8. Skepticism, Religion, and Modern Mindsets

• The interplay between meditation practices, skepticism (especially about TM), and traditional religious attitudes is explored humorously and introspectively.
  • Jack:

    "Doesn't that just immediately make you think, what the hell?...Sounds like a cult." (15:56)

  • The hosts revisit community worries about TM drawing people away from Christianity, then acknowledge that meditation is about contentment—not religious substitution.
• Pop Culture Reference:
  • Jack name-drops Jerry Seinfeld and Jennifer Aniston as TM advocates, as a final note (17:21).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe: "Our mental boundaries are permeable and there is chance, a chance creative insights and ideals will flow through from the subliminal mind." (07:29)
• Jack: "I meditate every single day for 20 minutes." (09:09)
• Joe (deadpan): "I was awake in the middle of the night when I wrote Sweet Home Alabama. They stole it from me, those long haired bastards." (05:45)
• Jack: “I've never ended a day alone with my thoughts… where I'm anxious and wish I were dead.” (13:02)
• Joe: "I've become an absolute advocate for boredom every single day. Make yourself bored." (08:31)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:28 — Introduction to hypnagogic state
• 03:18–04:52 — Songwriting stories: McCartney and Richards
• 05:10–05:29 — The importance of capturing inspiration quickly
• 07:03–08:46 — Science of creativity, advocacy for idleness
• 09:09–10:34 — Meditation habits and personal routines
• 10:34–11:14 — Walking without distractions; being present
• 12:00–13:13 — Motorcycle trips as analog meditation and reflection
• 14:28–14:47 — TM rituals, skepticism, and value
• 15:10–15:35 — Edison’s conscious napping; reframing idleness
• 16:24–17:21 — TM as a “cult”, generational and religious skepticism
• End — Pop culture TM endorsements and closing thoughts

Conclusion

Armstrong & Getty’s lively exploration of the hypnagogic state leads to a broader conversation on creativity, mindfulness, and the value of unstructured mental time. Through anecdotes, humor, and self-deprecating honesty, they encourage listeners to seek calm and inspiration not through constant activity, but by embracing idleness—be it through conscious boredom, meditation, or simply being alone with one’s thoughts.