Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (2:33)

Armstrong and Getty.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (2:34)

One more thing. We're talking about the hypnagogic state, Jack, which is, of course, Idaho. No, I kid. So state of mind, a state of being. I don't know why I'm talking in this voice.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (2:51)

Say the word again.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (2:53)

I think it's pronounced hypnagogic or gogic.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (2:57)

Okay, hypna.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (2:59)

And then G, O, G, I, C. What do you think? It's Greek, right? Hypnagogic. I don't know. Anyway, it's the twilight zone between sleep and wakefulness. And there is ample evidence that. That it's like the most creative space your brain can be in.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (3:18)

Usually. We're talking about usually when you're waking up, I guess.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (3:22)

Well, yeah, yeah. Falling asleep. Waking up, or in drifting between sleep and wakefulness. They give a couple of examples. Famously, Paul McCartney came up for the entire melody. He woke up with the entire melody for Yesterday in his head.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (3:39)

And he.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (3:39)

I had not realized this. He jumped straight out of bed, sat down at his piano, picked out the melody on the keys, found the chords to go with the melody, and created some holding phrases, famously scrambled eggs, I think, instead of Yesterday, because he knew he wanted three syllables as holding phrases, as songwriters called them. It's funny, I'd never heard that phrase anyway before he wrote proper lyrics to fit the melody. But he was so weirded out by it, and I'd never heard this before. He recalled, and I quote, Macca himself. For about a month, I went around to people in the music business and asked them whether they had ever heard it before. I thought if no one claimed it after a few weeks, then I could have it. But he was kind of surprised that it sprang from his mind and not memory.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (4:24)

Yeah, yeah. I could see how you'd think I must have heard this somewhere.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (4:28)

Yeah. And it's funny, this guy either doesn't know or he doesn't mention it. And he's a British. He's like the head of the psychology department at a British university, a lecturer. And he didn't mention that Keith Richards wrote Satisfaction, the Riff and everything. When he woke up in the middle of the night. He woke up in the morning to see that his entire tape from his cassette recorder was all the way toward the plate end or recorded end, like it had run out of tape. And he's like, what the hell? Why was my. Why does my tape look like that? He rewound it and listened to it. And he had zero memory of playing that riff in the middle of the night.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (5:10)

That song would have never existed if he hadn't decided to record it. I have definitely learned that if you have, you know, those kind of moments, whether you're waking up or anytime, man, you gotta write them down or they're gone.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (5:22)

That is one of the points they make. Jack, you're 100% right. I know you're done it myself thought, yeah, I'll wake up. I'll remember this because it's so good.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (5:29)

Yeah, I know your only point isn't about songwriting, but I know most of the great songwriters talk about this idea that like the songs are in, you know, in the universe and they show themselves and you gotta grab them when you get a chance to grab them. Or that's your only option, which is a weird concept.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (5:45)

But yeah, I. I was awake in the middle of the night when I wrote Sweet Home Alabama. They stole it from me, those long haired bastards.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (5:54)

Hippies.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (5:54)

Yeah, but that's okay. I know in my heart I wrote it. But anyway, so this hypnagogic state where you're like almost asleep and half awake, they think it uncouples your conscious mind from concerns and, you know, worrying through the things you have to do and just your worries and cares and that sort of thing. And your creative mind is able to just process more openly. They did this study in 2021 where participants in a hypnagogic state were three times more likely to discover the hidden rule that could solve a mathematical problem. Now, I've never participated in that sort of mathematical riddle before. I can't really relate to it. But again, the people in that sleepy headed state were three times more likely to discover the hidden rule. Have it occur to them psychologists associate creativity with qualities such as openness to experience and cognitive flexibility. Others have suggested that creativity arises from coordination between the cognitive control network of the brain, which deals with planning and problem solving, and the default mode network, which is associated with daydreaming and mind wandering.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (7:03)

I think it's got to have something to do with it. These thoughts about math or music or whatever ideas you have aren't being blocked out by the, you know, the problems of the moment that you're dealing with all day long, obscuring them.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (7:20)

Sure, yeah.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (7:21)

Before you wake up enough to think, oh God, it's Thursday, that's right, I have a test and I got to pick up my kid and all these different things for a brief period.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (7:29)

Our mental boundaries are permeable and There is chance, a chance creative insights and ideals will flow through from the subliminal mind. Here's where I get even more militant just for myself. I'm not talking about you people. I'm just talking about myself and kind of the people I care about, who I will lecture. This is why creativity is often associated with relaxation and idleness. When we relax, our conscious minds are usually less active. Often when we are busy or looking at a screen, our minds are full of chattering thoughts. So there is no space for creative insights to flow through. That is why meditation is strongly associated also with creativity. Perhaps more importantly, meditation quiets and softens the conscious mind, so we're more liable to receive inspiration from beyond it. That is so interesting. I have become an absolute advocate for boredom every single day. Make yourself bored. Done. If I'm standing. Wow.

Morton Buildings Advertiser (8:31)

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Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (8:31)

That is scathing and hilarious, Michael. That is my highest grade for sarcastic hilarity. Every day, if. If I'm waiting for the doctor to come into the waiting room, I do not look at my phone. I look around at the posters trying to sell me on Botox or a new knee or whatever the hell, and I intentionally don't occupy my mind. I'm trying to do that every single day. And you know, you do it if you want, don't do it if you don't want to. But I really. I've become a believer that you've got to let your mind unwind, and it takes a minute.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (9:06)

Yeah.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (9:07)

I mean, you're an advocate for meditation, Jack.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (9:09)

I meditate every single day for 20 minutes.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (9:12)

Yeah.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (9:12)

I rarely miss. And if I do miss at this point, it's almost intolerable. So I don't know what happened there, but if I miss a day, it is so freaking noticeable.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (9:27)

Yeah.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (9:27)

So I do it every day. Usually right when we get off, off the air, I go plug in my Tesla and sit there and I meditate for 20 minutes. I actually do this thing where I write down. It's a suggestion from some people, write down my fears and resentments on a piece of paper, handwritten, then meditate for 20 minutes. And huge part of my life at this point.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (9:47)

I remember one year, your Christmas present to me was you wrote, Joe's an asshole 500 times in a row. And you put it in a nice frame, and he gave it to me. And that was really. That was nice. That was nice. You took the time. Special Christmas. Yeah, it was a very special Christmas, Michael.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (10:04)

So I do the kind of meditation where you have a mantra. You go back to that's the only meditation that's ever worked for me and I've tried every other kind that exists and I just couldn't do it. But the mantra kind I can Is it one mantra or do you have does it change? It's one they give it to you. You have to keep it secret. Okay. It's the whole thing sounds like a scam. Like I've talked about before. You have to pay to get your mantra, which just sounds scam olicious. All I know is it it's the only meditation that's ever worked and I it's made my life better, so it was worth it.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (10:34)

Mine is in a Goddard David very old classic rock reference. The other thing I do is when I and this is an ironic thing to say, and I probably shouldn't, but there are a lot of podcasts that I absolutely love. I know I always claim there's just one arse, but but usually I try once a day when I'm walking Baxter just to look at the trees, look at the leaves, look at the sky, look at the grass. Just take in the world. It calms me. Do you find it so does a great podcast.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (11:09)

Do you find it at all hard to do? Sometimes, yes. Yeah.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (11:14)

So I have to remind myself, this is why you do this. And it's a good idea.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (11:18)

My example of that I use I've told this story many times, and this is way before podcast stuff like that, when my mind was much slower, when I used to do a lot of motorcycle trips and I on the motorcycle, I didn't have any sort of mechanism for listening to music or podcasts or anything. It was just, it was just my own brain. And I've done a lot of Katie this was years ago, 1998. I rode to Sturgis. So I rode my Harley all the way out. I went through Kansas, went up to Sturgis, came back in South Carolina. I did 4,500 miles total. That's a lot of miles. And when I would first start out on a trip, it was just painful to be there just with my thoughts, just like, how am I going to do this all day long, just staring at the roads, my own thoughts.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (12:07)

But once I'd get in the groove, I could go for hours.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (12:12)

Easily, without effort. And then I would go to sleep in the next day, do another eight, 10 hours in the saddle effortlessly. But then like a couple days of normal life next trip, first hour. So just painful. Getting your mind to slow down to where you can do that is not easy. But once you do Once you get in that zone, you can do it. Farmers probably, you know, back in the day, behind a mule for 15 hours. Probably easy for him.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (12:41)

Start thinking, man, this mules got a nice ass. So you got to be careful. It cuts both ways. And for people who would think that.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (12:47)

Would be, you know, there was nothing to do. Life was so boring. How many of them needed anxiety medicine or want to hang themselves at the end of the day or whatever? Very few.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (12:56)

Katie's missing the really beautiful point you're making here. My fault, because I'm a child.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (13:02)

All right, that was funny. I have never ended a day of alone with my own thoughts. Like on those motorcycle trips or camping or whatever, where I'm, like, anxious and wish I were dead.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (13:13)

No. Ever? No. Well said.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (13:16)

My. My mom has been recommending meditation to me since. I don't even remember how long it's been. But I have a real problem with the whole shutting it down. Well, that's why. Yeah, I. Me too. Like, it was big time.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (13:29)

I'm surprised because you seem so placid.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (13:33)

It was awful until I came across this. You know, I'm not. I don't make any money off of pitching TM as a meditation. They charge you for it. It's weird. You have to bring a fresh fruit, a white piece of cloth, and a flower. I know you're giving me that look. You're losing me now. It sounds insane. Sounds like a picnic.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (13:56)

One of those white elephant gift exchanges.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (13:58)

For Christmas, and they charge you based on how much money you make.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (14:03)

Wow.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (14:03)

Okay. And so I paid over a thousand bucks for this class. Well, I mean, it sounds like it's doing a lot of good, though. It's one of the best things I've ever done in my life. Okay.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (14:13)

Wow. Well, got your money's worth. That's what I always tell people.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (14:16)

I say it's got scam written all over it. And the whole, you got to keep it secret to me, it's like, if you care about people, like being placid, why don't you give this away for free? Why are you charging money?

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (14:28)

But whatever, Whatever.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (14:30)

I'm not worried about that. It just. It works for me. Kind of fruit did you bring?

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (14:35)

Is it a whole watermelon or.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (14:37)

That's what I was thinking. I think I brought an apple, a white handkerchief, and then some flowers.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (14:47)

Final note from this article, because it's pretty good. We can also use the technique of conscious napping to generate ideas. Whenever the great inventor Thomas Edison was stuck for a solution or new idea, he would allow himself to drift into unconsciousness while holding a metal ball. As he fell asleep, the ball would clatter to the ground and awake him when he would often find that a new insight had emerged.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (15:10)

Wow. Now that's an interesting one.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (15:12)

I actually heard Michael Savage talk about that once, years ago. More generally, we should use idleness as a way of cultivating creativity. Don't think of napping or relaxing as a waste of time. To Jack's point, far from being unproductive, this may lead to the most inspired ideas and insights of our lives. That's what I'm going to do on our vacation. A whole lot of just thinking, that's my plan.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (15:35)

And I don't really need inspired, creative insights to invent something new or write a melody or whatever. But being, you know, happy is a worthwhile goal. Content, better word.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (15:50)

Yeah, yeah. You're here.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (15:56)

I mean, I got, like, I know the kind of guy you are, similar to the kind of guy I am. If somebody tells. Tells you, okay, I'll teach you how to meditate, but I need you to bring a clean white piece of cloth, a piece of fruit, and a flower, and I'm gonna charge you based on your income. Doesn't that just immediately make you think, what the hell?

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (16:19)

Yes.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (16:21)

Yeah.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (16:21)

Yes. Yes, it does.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (16:24)

Sounds like a cult. That's. That's what my son calls it, because I've been trying to get him to meditate because he. His mind just tortures him. And I'm not going to do your cult voodoo because he knows about the cloth and the fruit.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (16:38)

I remember there was a great deal of concern about TM in the 70s, probably, or 80s, early 80s in my church community, which I grew up.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (16:48)

What were they afraid it was doing?

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (16:51)

Taking you in a different direction than Christianity.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (16:54)

In short, as a substitute. I could see how that could happen.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (17:00)

Yeah, if you're. I guess if you're.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (17:03)

If. If you're. You know, if you're going to church to be, like, content and the meditation works, maybe you stop going to church. That. That could be their concern, I suppose.

Joe (Armstrong and Getty) (17:12)

Yeah. My recollection was at that point in my life, I was only interested in getting a girlfriend and winning baseball games. So I didn't. I wasn't personally very concerned about it.

Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (17:21)

And one final pitch is, watch any of Jerry Seinfeld's long videos about tm. They're pretty damned interesting. Or Jennifer Aniston, who says she'd. She'd rather saw for arm than give up her mantra. She does the TMO.

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Jack (Armstrong and Getty) (19:27)

This week on Point Game with me, CJ Toledano and Isaiah Thomas, it had a great take on the warriors and whether they need to make big changes at the trade deadline. Check it out.

CJ Toledano (19:37)

Something has to happen. Your team's just not good enough or whatever's happening is just not good enough. So I think they got a lot of decisions to make because obviously you don't want to waste any more of Steph's years. You got to get all those years out of him. But the roster, I just don't think is is good enough. No, it's tough. It's not good enough to compete in the west for a championship right now. Obviously, when you have Steph Curry on the team, you feel like you have a chance, but you need a little more.

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