It's Hard To Fight On Ice

Summary

Episode Summary: "It's Hard To Fight On Ice"

Armstrong & Getty On Demand | Released on February 21, 2025

In this compelling episode of the Armstrong & Getty On Demand podcast, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty navigate through the intricate landscapes of international conflict and domestic policy reform. Featuring expert insights from military analyst Mike Lyons and Lan He Chen from Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, the discussion delves deep into the ongoing Ukraine-Russia conflict, the evolution of NATO, and the Trump administration's efforts to streamline the U.S. administrative state.

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International Relations and Military Strategy

Understanding NATO's Evolution and Current Challenges

The episode kicks off at [03:10] when Joe Getty introduces Mike Lyons, a seasoned military analyst with extensive experience in both U.S. and European military organizations. The conversation begins with a historical overview of NATO's trajectory since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Mike Lyons [05:03]: "I'd start at 1989, 1990, when the Soviet Union falls as the west completely screws up. [...] The west decided to bring countries into NATO one at a time... because that's how the First World War started."

Lyons critiques the post-Cold War expansion of NATO, arguing that Western powers underestimated Russia's capacity for resurgence. He emphasizes that this miscalculation has contributed to the current instability in Europe.

European Domestic Politics and Its Impact on Global Standing

At [06:40], the discussion shifts to the state of European politics, highlighting internal policies that may be diminishing Europe’s global influence.

Mike Lyons [07:23]: "The politics, the freedom of speech policies in Germany right now is appalling. [...] You have to have a military presence and show leverage and capability of doing things."

Lyons asserts that Europe's focus on liberal policies, such as immigration and free speech, has led to a weakened stance on the international stage. He draws parallels to historical empires, suggesting that without a strong military and cohesive strategy, Europe risks further decline.

The Ukraine-Russia Conflict: Seeking a Resolution

Returning to the core topic at [09:27], Joe Getty and Mike Lyons dissect the ongoing Ukraine-Russia war, analyzing former President Trump's potential influence and the implications of current U.S. policies.

Mike Lyons [09:27]: "Russia will have the 20% that they've kept, they'll likely keep Crimea... NATO won't be bringing in Ukraine anytime soon. They'll be lucky to get some kind of money there going forward and to try to get the fighting to stop."

Lyons remains skeptical about the feasibility of a swift resolution, predicting a prolonged conflict with temporary armistices rather than a definitive end.

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Domestic Policy and Administrative State Reforms

Reducing Bureaucratic Inefficiencies

After a brief interlude of advertisements, the focus shifts at [26:13] to domestic policy, where Joe Getty engages with Lan He Chen to discuss the Trump administration's initiatives to cut down the federal bureaucracy.

Lan He Chen [27:20]: "The IRS has reached record levels of staffing... they are looking to trim about 6,800 probationary recent hires... which is less than 7% of the workforce."

Chen clarifies that the proposed cuts are part of a broader effort to enhance efficiency within federal agencies, debunking fears of significant service degradation.

The Impact of Government Size on the Economy

The conversation delves into the broader implications of an expanding government on the private sector and national debt.

Lan He Chen [42:32]: "If government gets bigger, taxes go up. We have to pay more to support the mechanism of government that's been created."

Joe Getty echoes this sentiment, highlighting the direct financial burden on individuals and the potential stifling of private enterprise.

Congressional Dysfunction as a Check on Executive Power

Chen addresses the pivotal role of Congress in balancing executive actions, lamenting its current inefficacy.

Lan He Chen [34:54]: "The incentive structure has changed... electing more extreme members... impacts Congress's ability to do its job."

She emphasizes that a non-functional Congress weakens the oversight necessary to prevent unchecked executive power, underscoring the need for a more responsive and responsible legislative branch.

Transparency and Accountability in Government Spending

The discussion underscores the critical need for transparency in government operations to foster accountability and public trust.

Lan He Chen [31:05]: "Why can't we, as the people who fund government, have a better idea of what government's spending our money on?"

Chen advocates for greater visibility into government expenditures to ensure that taxpayer money is utilized efficiently and ethically.

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Notable Quotes

• Mike Lyons [05:03]: "The west decided to bring countries into NATO one at a time... because that's how the First World War started."

• Mike Lyons [07:23]: "The politics, the freedom of speech policies in Germany right now is appalling."

• Mike Lyons [09:27]: "Russia will have the 20% that they've kept, they'll likely keep Crimea... NATO won't be bringing in Ukraine anytime soon."

• Lan He Chen [27:20]: "The IRS has reached record levels of staffing... they are looking to trim about 6,800 probationary recent hires..."

• Lan He Chen [42:32]: "If government gets bigger, taxes go up. We have to pay more to support the mechanism of government that's been created."

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Insights and Conclusions

This episode provides a nuanced examination of both international and domestic arenas:

• Internationally, the discussion highlights the strategic missteps in NATO's expansion and the enduring complexities of the Ukraine-Russia conflict. Lyons' historical insights shed light on the fragile balance of power in Europe and the critical need for cohesive and robust defense strategies.

• Domestically, the focus on reducing bureaucratic inefficiencies emphasizes the Trump administration's commitment to streamlining government operations. Chen's analysis underscores the economic ramifications of an oversized government and the imperative for greater transparency and accountability.

Final Takeaway: The episode underscores the interconnectedness of military strategy and domestic policy, positing that strategic foresight and administrative efficiency are paramount for national security and economic prosperity.

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Stay Tuned: For more insightful discussions and expert analyses on pressing national and international issues, subscribe to Armstrong & Getty On Demand.

Transcript

[Ashley Kinetic]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty. But he should have taken taken it serious and allowed the United States to engage. President Trump is the only one that could have prevented this war from taking place. And President Trump now is cleaning up the mess that Biden left behind.

[Mike Lyons]

And President Trump will get it done.

[Joe Getty]

He will negotiate an end to this war. He wants to see the war ended.

[Mike Lyons]

Regardless of how that takes place.

[Joe Getty]

He wants to see a win for Ukraine and a win for Russia at the same time because there's a lose lose going on for both countries right now. People are dying and the president said he wants people to stop dying. As Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, friend of the Armstrong and Getty show, we're in this stage of Trump communication where Trump says something outrageous and sometimes ridiculous, and then his allies reinterpret it for us in a more sane way. And I want to talk about, you know, some of the things Trump said and done lately as they try to move toward a solution of the Ukraine, Russia conflict specifically. But first, a general discussion with Mike Lyons, military analyst. Mike served with various military organizations in both the US And Europe throughout his career and joins us now. Mike, how are you?

[Mike Lyons]

Hey, Joe. Good, good. Thanks for having me back.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, it's always a pleasure. Thank you. So before we get into some of the specifics of the Ukraine, Russia thing, right now, you're a student of history as we know it is I think beyond question that there is a serious change in the chemistry, the magnetic fields, however you want to describe it, of post World War II NATO and the Western powers. Where would you start in telling a class about that?

[Mike Lyons]

I'd start at 1989, 1990, when the Soviet Union falls as the west completely screws up. What happened of the Russian empire back then. And you go back at that point, NATO wins the Cold War and Russia is bankrupt. Ronald Reagan, a lot of it has to do with what he wanted to do with Russia and decides and the Soviet Union breaks up. And instead of managing that properly and making sure that the Russian empire had zero chance of ever coming back again, the west decided to bring countries into NATO one at a time or so over the course of the next 30 years since then Thinking that that was going to be a stable way to go, as opposed to not recognizing that you can't have every member of NATO to be everybody except Russia, because that's how the First World War started. So we're seeing now the effects of lack of NATO Doing anything in 06 when Georgia gets invaded. We're definitely seeing the effects of 14 when Obama and Merkel does do nothing when Crimea is taken. And then very clearly, Joe Biden, when he was president, was the reason why Vladimir Putin decides to go after Ukraine. And now we're faced with a NATO that's disarmed on the continent, that if not before the United States nuclear umbrella, that the defenses don't happen. The last 12 years, historians are going to look back at the European countries and say they had multiple warnings to rearm and remobilize their forces to put some kind of leverage behind any kind of military operations, and they didn't. And I think that's where we're at right now, and that's why the mess is being cleaned up.

[Joe Getty]

Which leads me beautifully to the next topic I wanted to address, and that is I've been reading a lot about the domestic politics and economics. A lot of the European countries now, particularly because several of them are having important elections, virtually all of the biggies are. And it strikes me, whether you're talking about technology or the economy in general, the politics, the freedom of speech policies in Germany, which has been much discussed lately, it all feels like shrinking, not growth. Europe just feels like a diminished force that's continuing to be diminished with, with few signs of life.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah. And the thing is, we needed each of those individual countries to have their own individual leaders that had that same vision with regards to where they were going. But instead, each of them have been more aligned with, I'll just say more liberal tendencies of unlimited immigration. The free speech conversation that's taking place in Germany right now is appalling. I mean, that what happened over with the 60 Minutes interview and they're arresting people for putting memes on the Internet and then trying to equate that some reason, like because of free speech, that's why we had the Holocaust. I can't even connect these dots or whoever thought they were going to get connected is just virtually insane at this point. But what's happened is. And then go back to Germany, you know, they've, they've gotten rid of all their nuclear energy power plants. The world runs on, you know, energy. You have to. You can't have a country unless you have that. And so they rely on Russia. So you kind of bring all this together. I saw a good quote the other day that talked about when the Roman Empire fell. It's not because of the elites didn't improve their cost of living or didn't improve their lifestyles. It fell because the barbarians had hatchets. And that's still the same for today. You've got to have a military presence and show leverage and show capability of doing things. And all of those countries, to include England. England is no less guilty in any of these countries right now. And they really risk, Europe in particular, England, France, Germany, some of these countries really risk losing their cultures, losing everything that's about them.

[Joe Getty]

Well, and every sign is that they have no inclination whatsoever to do the things that need to be done to fix it. In fact, the minute somebody suggests, for instance, hey, our welfare state is draining our coffers and we don't have the money to defend themselves, they get voted out of office. So I don't. I don't have a lot of hope. So let's get a little more specific about Ukraine and Russia. You can either address some of the incendiary things Trump has said lately or not, not, it's up to you. But as the folks gather for various peace talks, how does the whole thing strike you overall?

[Mike Lyons]

Well, yeah, he said some outrageous things. Obviously, the dictator here is Putin and Russia did invade Ukraine. It's unjustifiable. And Russian aggression is something that has to be dealt with. The question is, what's the levers that we can apply back in order to have them not do it again. And Trump's transactional view of this whole thing is it has to stop. Once it does stop, we create an armistice. But he's afraid of the same thing over and over again. We land European troops there, we put American troops there, American troops will be forward on this. And they became really what'll be a tripwire. I mean, again, I appreciate what the British Prime Minister was talking about sending troops to Ukraine. I'd like to know exactly which troops. There's less than 100,000 active duty troops that are in the UK army right now, which is ridiculous for a country that size was once a great power. I mean, they might as well be Portugal. They might as well be some mid Atlantic Middle Eastern country right now. So, again, none of these countries have got really any capability to do this. But I think the question is, I think we're going to get to the spot that everybody is. Pete Hex had said the quiet part out loud. Russia will have the 20% that they've kept, they'll likely keep Crimea, they'll put up a border. NATO won't be, won't be bringing in Ukraine anytime soon. And they'll be lucky to get some, some eu, you know, kind of money there going forward and to try to get the fighting to stop. I think that's where it's going to go and that's, that's where it should have went back when the first thing started four years ago, three years ago at this point.

[Joe Getty]

And honestly, whatever's next is not going to play out in the next year. It's going to play out in the next 30 years. So we'll all find out together. Military analyst Mike Lyons on the line. Mike, we're really putting you through the paces today and we appreciated another topic. Speaking of Pete Hegseth and Trump's order to take a serious look at the Pentagon. Cut budgets, cut the fat. What do you think of that in general? And you as an experienced Pentagon hand, tell us about the efficiencies and inefficiencies of the Pentagon.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, they go through this every once in a while. They've tried a couple of different administrations. What you're seeing though is Pete Hegseth being very overly transparent. He put about an 8 minute video out last night with regard to what that was going to be about, specifically left certain things out of it, certain domains that won't be cut. But like anything else, there are things that are redundant within the Pentagon that it's an easy place for fiefdoms to be built and for kingdoms to kind of move forward as people try to stay in one location and don't change their jobs. So I think he's looking to knock down some of those silos. Some of those silos are calcified, I'll put it that way, in terms of where they don't talk. 911 did actually a pretty good job of knocking those silos down when it came to information communication. They still get rebuilt and they still get re established and I think that's what Pete wants to do. He's up against a very strong momentum on the other side because there's people that are going to dig in pretty deeply and they're going to want to keep their fiefdoms and keep their dollars. But when you think about it, the Pentagon is the most, the largest discretionary budget that we have right now. And so if we can get some savings out of there, 10%, then I think that'll be a win.

[Joe Getty]

Right. And we have always said around here at the A and G show that the kindest, best thing we can do for our actual fighting men and women is to. There's efficiency at the Pentagon. And the idea that scrutinizing the Pentagon or reordering budgets is somehow weakening defense, I think is foolish. Final question. Speaking of our military in these turbulent times, what do you see as our greatest strength right now, as our forces exist and what's your greatest concern or our greatest weakness?

[Mike Lyons]

I think our greatest strength remains this intangible, being an American. I think anytime you see American Americans in a situation where they have to rally and put themselves together, not just in the military, you see it in corporate America sometimes. But there's this thing about being an American, which is why everybody wants to come here, why everybody wants to be part of this thing when push comes to shove, when a mission has to get done. I remember my time in active duty that people would say, we're going to get this done. We're going to look left and look right and take care of each other. So I think our greatest strength is this tangible that runs in our DNA of being an American and what that means and being on the high. On the high ground and doing whatever it takes. I often think about, you know, I look at these videos and I watch the Russians leave their soldiers behind and things like that. And I remember being, when I was at combat thinking that, you know, you never see Americans surrender and things like that. So we have this intangible that's there. But then that greatest strength is a weakness. If we still don't have the technology and don't have the equipment, and if we come up with somebody that has better, better kind of things, we're not going to, no matter, no matter how great that intangible, not going to overcome that. So we still have to have military might. We have to have material might and be able to put our money where our mouth is. I think those are the two biggest things, right?

[Joe Getty]

And that's so perfect. I was just going to interject that in reading about Germany in the elections and that sort of thing, a German analyst was saying, what really weakens us and strengthens the Americans is that we have a culture of we better be careful, we better not. Here are the things that can be wrong, that could go wrong, rather, whereas the Americans have a spirit of, let's try it and see what happens, learn from it and go from there. And yeah, if we ever lose that, including technologically, as you're saying, then we're screwed. Military analyst Mike Lyons Mike, Great to talk to you. Thanks so much for the time.

[Mike Lyons]

Thanks for having me.

[Joe Getty]

Absolutely. Coming up in just a moment or two, a couple of interesting perspective studies I've come across in the last few days about the technical world, what it's doing to our brains and how to unplug from it. You'll find it interesting. Stay with us.

[Ashley Kinetic]

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[Mike Lyons]

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[Joe Getty]

@ Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the responsibility that comes with being a new parent, being there day and night and building a plan for tomorrow, today for the ones you'll always look out for. Trust Amica Life Insurance Ameca Empathy is our best policy. Centering Patrick McDavid scores. Connor McDavid wins it for Canada future historians. It has done it again inside the TD Garden. Well, look back on that moment and understand that's what started the great Canadian American war. Canada viciously and unprovokedly. Is that a word? Scoring against our poor goalie in overtime and, and. And brutally winning the hockey game, which did not start with a bunch of fights, by the way. I was hanging out with my buddy Gordy, who is a former elite hockey player, not quite NHL, but very, very good hockey player and still is part of the world of sports. And I said, hey, are they going to be a bunch of fights tonight? And he said, no, no, no, no. Too important a game. They'll come out, just win, scores have been settled, now let's play hockey. And he was absolutely right. He also pointed out that hockey is the only sport where there are absolutely rock solid rules unwritten but you cannot violate about fighting. You watch an NBA fight, guys are, are sucker punching each other and punching each other from behind and swinging wildly like lunatics. In hockey, you tell the guy we're fighting, he says, yes. You drop your gloves, you slug each other in the head if you can. Generally, you can't. It's very hard to fight on ice. If you've never tried it, don't. But trust me when I tell you it's very difficult, especially when somebody's grabbing your jersey and pulling it up and the rest of it. The minute anybody's getting hurt, the referees dive in and break it up. And the minute anybody goes to the ice, the other guy says it's over and they back off. You'll never see an NHL player like, pounding another guy who's down. They just don't. It's very honorable. It's like the dueling culture thing we were talking about yesterday. You don't have to be in favor of it. But it's, it's not like straight thugs beating each other to death on the pavement or anything like this. Very, very different than that. It's, it's a gentlemanly punching another man in the face. Anyway, I thought this was good. Interesting, thought provoking because I worry about this all the time. Not just for the younger generation, although I certainly do, but also about myself. And that is our addiction to the endorphin bursts of input after input after input from smartphones, particular technology in general. Here's a story about how popular these unplugged nights are among young Brits. Ofcom is the name of the organization. They unplug and they get together for offline nights. They call them and they do whatever, whether it's drinking or dancing or even playing games or whatever, just talking to each other. No tech allowed. Katie joins us. Yeah, I love this idea. Yeah, yeah, me too. And they, you know, anybody old enough to remember this doesn't need a description, but they mentioned one group that was playing games and scattered around the room table stacked with board games as an excited hum echoed around the walls. Here's this 25 year old engineer said he leaving his phone at the door. Freeing. I didn't realize the addiction then. Too often I feel the urge to look at my phone and scroll. He talked about fomo, but this is growing in popularity. I don't, I don't know if it will achieve any sort of critical mass, but it's, it's definitely a response to what we're all feeling, I think. And then this, which is of, of similar content obviously, but big study out multiple universities across the USA and Canada worked with hundreds and hundreds of iPhone users, average age 32 to test how removing constant Internet access would affect their daily lives. And I'll squeeze in the analysis real quickly as we look forward to a chat with Lan Hee Chen in just a moment or two about domestic policy. Blocking mobile Internet for two weeks led to mental health improvements with an effect size larger than typically seen in antidepressant studies. Improved sustained attention comparable to reversing 10 years of age related decline and increased well being in 91% of participants in at least one key area. There's more to it and we'll dip back into it, but it's like better for depression than drugs and better for memory than being 10 years younger. Holy cow. Stay with us. Lon He Chen Next, Armstrong and Getty.

[Ashley Kinetic]

This is Ashley Kineti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. It feels like everyone is talking about GLP1s these days. Those are Ozempic and Semaglutide. And with Future Health you can find out if they're right for you too. Maybe you feel like you've been struggling with your weight for years and no matter how much you diet and exercise, you just don't feel healthy. Just go to try fh.com to find out if weight loss meds are right for you. Future Health is not a healthc care services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Lan He Chen]

Results may vary.

[Ashley Kinetic]

Sponsored by Future Health Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melonleaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All of that available at Meaningful.

[Lan He Chen]

At.

[Joe Getty]

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[Ashley Kinetic]

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[Joe Getty]

Cut jobs Save the government money. Send Americans a check for the difference. That's the Trump plan being floated at least.

[Mike Lyons]

But is it realistic, is it feasible.

[Joe Getty]

And might it hurt your wallet more than it would help where he's gone too far?

[Lan He Chen]

A slim majority using presidential power, 52% say he's gone too far there. Cutting federal programs, 51% of Americans say gone too far.

[Joe Getty]

This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. Chainsaw, chainsaw. A variety of opinions and thoughts there having to do with domestic policy, budget cutting, bureaucracy taming, et cetera, which is one of the major initiatives going on in the Trump administration right now. Who better to discuss this with than Lan He, Chen David and Diane Steffey, Fellow in American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution and the Director of Domestic Policy Studies Studies at Stanford University. Lonhi, how are you?

[Lan He Chen]

Great to be with you. How are you?

[Joe Getty]

Just terrific. Thank you. Earlier in the show, we were comparing and contrasting the Democratic reaction to a lot of the cutting and restructuring and examining the giant bureaucracy which has been essentially, any cuts are a horror in a constitutional crisis. With Lincoln's statement that we absolutely have the right to amend, reconstruct, you know, he didn't say this explicitly, but cut or grow government in the way we the people see fit. It's quite a contrast.

[Lan He Chen]

It is. And I would just say this. I mean, I think there is a fair amount of hysteria over some of the activity that we're seeing, and the effort, I think, that's underway by some of the media is to try and define some of these cuts as existential or deeply problematic. So let's just step back and take a look at one of them that they talk about. For example, the irs. This is one of my favorite ones. The IRS has reached record levels of staffing in the last couple years, and they have significantly expanded their workforce. So they went from about 70,000 employees to 100,000 employees over the course of a couple of years. Now, the cuts that Doge is talking about 6,800 employees, we're talking about 6,800 probationary recent hires that they're looking to essentially trim from the IRS bureaucracy. We're Talking about between 6 to 7% of the workforce, and it doesn't even account for the significant, as I said, increase in the workforce we've seen recently. So people just need to look at the facts and try to figure out exactly what's going on here, because fundamentally, there is this notion that, well, no, we can't cut anything. This is going to cause a degradation of service. Look, the service at the IRS wasn't all that great before. So the notion that we have this challenge that's being created because of the things that government is doing and things that Doge is doing in particular, it's just not true.

[Joe Getty]

Well, and the idea that to even audit something is improper or threatening is just. It's. It's obscenely backward. One of the things Kim Strassel's writing about is how the Trump administration is taking a serious look at the agencies that Congress created to perform executive functions. Like. Well, they administer laws, but they're free from the executive branch's control. It's like Congress created its own executive branch. Any thoughts on where we are as a country with that, and what are the chances of doing something about it?

[Lan He Chen]

Yeah, that's another great question, because you've got a whole host of agencies that are. They're called independent agencies. Right. They're created, usually end in a B or a C. So commissioner, board, and these are the organizations that essentially are part of the executive branch, but they have some independent authority. So they've got, for example, board members or commission members who are appointed by a president for a set amount of time, confirmed by the Senate, and they're supposed to sit for that set amount of time. And the idea was, well, you've got some of these institutions that are supposed to create some separation from the rest of the executive branch. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, though, at some level. And so what this administration, what the Trump administration is now trying to do is to say, for example, hey, if you, as a commission, a supposedly independent commission, issue a new regulation, something that you're saying people can or cannot do, you need to take that regulation and you've got to run it through the White House. We've got to know what it is that you're doing. Even as a, quote, independent agency, I don't think that's unreasonable. Right. Because the independent agency has elements of independence. We understand that because they're regulating, let's say, for example, whether a merger can go through or not. But at core, what the White House is saying is, if you're gonna regulate, we have to know about it. And again, this is one of those things where there's been a lot of writing in the media, a lot of misunderstanding, this notion of Trump's trying to take over the entire bureaucracy, when the reality is, is there's certain things here that independent agencies, for example, have been doing for a long time where we probably do need a little more political oversight. And so, you know, people, again, just gotta understand what the real story is versus what the media is reporting.

[Joe Getty]

Sure. And we've been plenty harsh about the unchecked growth of executive power and how the gigantic executive branch has come to be. In many ways, it mimics all Three branches. It writes rules and laws like Congress, then it enforces them, like the executive branch, I guess, and then decides on your fines, and here's the appeals and everything, like the judicial branch. And so obviously it needs to be looked at. And the other aspect of this that is never talked about in the media is that the president, as, for instance, they're howling that Elon Musk is unelected. You know, like the president's virtually the only person in the executive branch who is elected. But the idea that a huge chunk of the executive branch wouldn't be answerable to the voters at all except, like, you know, three steps down the line. While I fear unchecked executive power, if the executive is in charge, they can do good things and be rewarded with reelection or their party reelection. But if they do bad things, they can be voted out. Right? Now, if the giant, sprawling executive branch does bad things, what the hell do I do about it?

[Lan He Chen]

Well, this is the most important thing that people don't realize, which is that there is actually a check on what the executive branch can do. And that's Congress, right? If Congress actually did its job and was functional, as opposed to just being a bunch of people running around yelling all the time. If Congress actually. Yeah, if Congress actually functioned the way Congress is supposed to function. That's your check on the executive branch, right? That's your check on what the executive is doing. They have the oversight power. They can have hearings, they can run legislation. They can do all sorts of stuff to constrain. If they're really worried about. If Chuck Schumer and Democrats in the House, Hakeem Jeffries and all the rest, if they're really worried about what the executive branch is doing, if they're worried about what Doge is doing, they have the ability in Congress to try and work together with Republicans there to figure out a way to conduct oversight. They can conduct oversight on their own, by the way. They don't need Republicans to do it necessarily. So the idea that there's no check on the executive, first of all, you're right. The voters can send a check, but more importantly, Congress needs to do its job. And Congress has completely seeded the playing field in a lot of ways. The executive. And this is not a Trump problem. This happened during the Biden administration, this happened during Obama, that the Congress has just gotten less and less willing to do its job. And that's probably.

[Joe Getty]

Is it just that if they're not on the record having done anything, they can't be blamed for anything going wrong? Where does this cowardice, laziness, whatever it is, come from?

[Lan He Chen]

Well, part of it's that the incentives for members of Congress are really different now than they were before. You know, now it's all about how many likes can I get on social media, how can I generate a following on social media, how can I do all of that as opposed to, you know, where I think there, there were members of Congress that did the hard work of actually trying to get things done. You know, I think it's been a few decades since we've, we've really seen a lot of that activity. But I think part of it is the, the incentive structure has changed and then part of it is, you know, unfortunately I do think we're electing in a lot of places more extreme members of Congress who are really more interested in advancing ideology than actually passing legislation and getting things done. Now, now some of that's a reflection of us as the American people becoming more polarized and more ideological in some ways. But overall I do think that the composition of Congress, the nature of Congress, who we're sending to Congress, all of these things have impacted quite frankly Congress's ability to do its job and Congress, members of Congress's willingness to do their job.

[Joe Getty]

Wow, that's a big one. That's a big one. We don't really have time to talk about how to reform our entire primary process and the rest of it. Actually, you know what I was gonna ask, and I'm debating. Can you hang on for a few minutes through a break?

[Lan He Chen]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Getty]

Okay. Because what I was gonna ask because folks like me and perhaps you are more than willing to geek out on the, you know, the inside baseball structural stuff of government and then forget to explain what a success reigning in the giant bureaucratic state would look like like to real human beings in their lives. So why don't we take a break, catch our breath and, and let's talk about what it would look on, look like on Main Street. If that sounds good to you.

[Lan He Chen]

I'll be here.

[Joe Getty]

Beautiful. Lon Hee Chen of the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. More to come, Armstrong and Getty.

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[Joe Getty]

Thank you for tuning in. Armstrong and Getty here. Jack is off for today, but we're pleased to have terrific guests like Lonhi Chen of the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. Lonhi, thanks for hanging around. We really appreciate it.

[Lan He Chen]

Sure Joe.

[Joe Getty]

And so for folks just tuning in, especially we've been talking about and a lot of this has gone on unnoticed or untalked about by many people in the media in the midst of Trump cutting, you know, transgender polo matches for Dubai or whatever the heck, a lot of the serious looking at and rejiggering the administrative state, all these commissions and boards and making everybody go through all the rules and see if any of the rules violate the Constitution, exceed legislative power, go beyond the clear words of the Congressional statute, harm the national interest, a strip down of the gigantic administrative state. And those of us who've been praying for that sort of thing are super excited. But as I said before the break, Lonhi, can we help understand. Help people understand rather how that helps their lives, you know, in everywhere America? Well, look, we.

[Lan He Chen]

We want an effective and efficient government, right? And obviously everyone wants government to do the things it's supposed to do. But when you have, I think there's a couple of issues. One is when you have government that's grown so big and particularly has so many people that it becomes kind of a constituency in and of itself. Right. That it becomes about defending the institution, which really means making sure that nothing ever changes. What you end up with, unfortunately, is a situation where government doesn't have to improve. I mean, let's just compare that to minute. Let's just think about a business, right? If you think about a business, the reason why businesses improve, really the only reason why they improve is because of competition. And you've got a marketplace where you've got different businesses competing for. For people's support and for people's business. And, and that ends up forcing them to improve and to change and to evolve. Think about government for a minute. What forces government to change and evolve and get better? The answer is no. On a regular basis, unless you apply some sort of pressure, there is no competition. There's no other government out there that's going to do national security, that's going to do processing to make sure that we have clean air and clean water. You don't have that unless you apply some political pressure on government to do better. And that is fundamentally why we need to think about some of these changes that are going on. You know, are some of them unorthodox? Are some of them going to raise eyebrows? Sure. But fundamentally, the only way government gets better is if you apply some pressure on it to be more efficient and more effective. And by the way, here's another thing, Joe, that really drives me nuts is transparency. If you look at, for example, in California where I'm sitting, the lack of transparency we have into what government is doing and spending money on is remarkable. And at the federal level, we've got some similar issues. It's not as bad as it is in California. But why can't we, as the people who fund government, have a better idea of what government's spending our money on? This is something that's always drove me. This is why I ran for controller several years ago. It's why I continue to believe we've got to push this transparency message because if we don't know what government is doing, it can ever get better. We can't ever make it do the things it's supposed to do and instead it ends up doing things that after the fact we read about it, we're like, what our money's been going to what? Because no one was able to see along the way where all that money was going. So anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now, but I really think transparency is hugely important.

[Joe Getty]

Well, so how that lands on Main street though is, number one, we're not being stolen from and our tax money merely distributed cronies. That is what I would like very much. But secondly, wouldn't we see less regulation, therefore more efficient economic growth and change and that sort of thing and rising wages? I just think, I think scaling back the administrative state would have a specific material benefit to average Americans wherever they are.

[Lan He Chen]

Well, yeah, I mean, look, aside from people getting better service and having a government that's more responsive.

[Joe Getty]

You're right.

[Lan He Chen]

I mean, not to get too wonky about this, but there is always this worry about government crowding out the private sector. And what that means is that the government becomes so big that it starts to make it difficult for, know, private entrepreneurs and small business owners to do what they're doing. And the more debt we take on, the more people are going to have to pay in taxes to pay off that debt. And why we, why do we carry debt? We carry debt to have a bigger government. And so, yeah, there is a real impact for people on Main street and that is that if government gets bigger, taxes go up and people pay more because we have to, we have to pay more to support the mechanism of government that's been created. So there is a direct effect on our pocketbook books and something that people need to be aware of.

[Joe Getty]

And just, you know, a personal example. I've been very fortunate. Jack and I have done well in this business. I'm reasonably financially comfortable, but my taxes are breathtaking. And if I were not paying those taxes like that, it's not like I would go out and buy a yacht. I would love to invest in smart people with great ideas. That's what I would do if I was not spending X amount of money on taxes and help them grow their businesses and hire a bunch of people and start an insurance plan and the rest of it. So yeah, the idea that government crowds out free enterprise and private enterprises is absolutely true. So Lanahy, we appreciate the time and thoughts. Anything else on what the Trump administration's doing domestically that's got you excited or you're feeling really good about?

[Lan He Chen]

Well, Joe, I mean, look, I think some of the stuff that the Doge is doing in terms of, right. Sizing government, I think that's long overdue, quite frankly. But what I would also say is we've got a president. Whether you like what he's doing or not, he's doing something. Okay. And I think that that is fundamentally what, in many ways in our, in our country, we feel like we've been lacking this, we've been lacking this kind of leadership and direction. And we can have a real debate about whether all of these things are right or wrong, whether we like everything that's happening, whether we think the direction that's, that the US Is taking around the world is the right one. But, but fundamentally, we have an action oriented executive branch and an action oriented government and maybe we can kind of wake everyone up and sort of say, listen, there's some things that have to get done here and there's some ways in which we need to push forward to improve our country. And I just think that we can have a real debate over these things and this level of activity and action that is truly exciting to me. And, you know, let's see where it goes.

[Joe Getty]

Lanhi Chen of the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. Lanhi, it's always a pleasure. Thanks so much for the time.

[Lan He Chen]

Yep. Great to be with you. Thank you.

[Joe Getty]

Likewise. Thanks. And to Chuck Schumer and those who have been denigrating the Supreme Court and talking about how it's illegitimate and the rest of it, the plan is all the stuff we've been talking about to really look at the foundations of the giant obese Washington colossus and drag to the Supreme Court, questions like these commissions and boards and departments of, since they're no longer doing what Congress told them to do and they're not accountable to the executive agent, the executive branch, can we end them or how can we trim them and restructure them? And if it runs afoul of any constitutional principles we have, thank God in Trump, frankly, we have, have a lot of constitutionalist judges who are very, very protective of the bones of the Constitution, the original intent of the Constitution. So I think it's the perfect circumstance. We've got an agent of change and agents of stability that are going to work together to make the government better for all of us. Hey la, hey la. I love it. Stay with us.

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