Like the UAW, But the "A" Doesn't Stand for Auto

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand Episode Title: Like the UAW, But the "A" Doesn't Stand for Auto
Release Date: December 5, 2024
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In this episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand, the hosts delve into the recent legislative changes in Belgium that grant full employment rights to sex workers. The discussion navigates the intricacies of the new law, its implications for sex workers, and the broader societal impacts. Alongside their primary discussion, the hosts share personal anecdotes and engage in light-hearted banter, providing a balanced and engaging listening experience.

---

1. The Evolution of Plastic Packaging

Timestamp: 03:12 – 07:54

Before transitioning to the main topic, Armstrong and Getty engage in a spirited conversation about the frustrations surrounding modern plastic packaging. They highlight the increasing difficulty in opening plastic sacks and containers, attributing these changes to efforts aimed at reducing carbon footprints.

• Getty:
  "The modern plastic sacks are so sucky. ... the effort toward having a smaller carbon footprint has led to these kinds of plastics for, like, chip bags."
  (04:48)

• Armstrong:
  "I had a hell of a time with one of those milk cartons that has the little screw top..."
  (04:58)

• Getty:
  "The old style milk carton caps were 21 millimeters tall, while the new ones are 17 millimeters tall. That seems to be enough to make it impossible to grip by most people."
  (06:06)

Their discussion underscores a common frustration with everyday products, setting a relatable tone before moving into more complex societal issues.

---

2. Legalization of Prostitution in Belgium

Timestamp: 07:54 – 14:31

The conversation pivots to the heart of the episode: Belgium's groundbreaking legislation that grants sex workers full employment rights. This includes access to Social Security, pensions, regulated working hours, and formal employment contracts.

• Armstrong:
  "This is one of Michael's pet causes. ... Belgian prostitutes have been given full employment rights as sex workers under a new law."
  (07:54)

• Getty:
  "Don Bowens, director of the Belgian Union for Prostitutes, said, 'We could have never dreamt that we would be here now. I think the most important thing is that we now make access to Social Security possible.'"
  (08:22)

Key Points Discussed:

• Employment Protections:
  Sex workers can now refuse clients or specific sexual acts without fear of losing their jobs. The law provides a six-month protection period during which sex workers are safeguarded from retaliation.
  (11:17 – 11:40)

• Workplace Safety and Hygiene:
  Employers must comply with workplace safety standards, including installing emergency panic buttons and maintaining strict hygiene protocols. Rooms must meet specific size requirements and be equipped with clean bedding, toiletries, condoms, and access to showers.
  (11:56 – 12:12)

• Challenges and Criticisms:
  While the legislation is a significant step forward, Armstrong and Getty express concerns about potential secondary consequences. They draw parallels to the legalization of marijuana in California, suggesting that illegal markets and exploitation may persist despite formal regulations.
  (09:23 – 10:11)

  • Getty:
    "Even if you legalize prostitution, there is absolutely still going to be exploitation, sexual slavery, underaged girls being raped for money because they can't give consent."
    (09:45)

  • Armstrong:
    "It's like the young junkies in all the cities of blue America who got saved over and over again by getting arrested and having some compassionate cop saying, 'Hey, you don't have to do this.'"
    (10:11)

• Comparative Perspectives:
  The hosts compare Belgium's approach to other regions, noting that Belgium was the second country globally to decriminalize prostitution after New Zealand in 2003. They also mention the legal status of brothels in Nevada, albeit with some reservations.
  (14:19 – 14:31)

---

3. Personal Anecdotes and Humor

Timestamp: 05:12 – 14:31

Throughout the discussion, Armstrong and Getty intersperse their analysis with personal stories and humor, making the conversation engaging and relatable.

• Eggnog Anecdote:
  Getty reminisces about homemade eggnog made with Haagen Dazs ice cream, highlighting the indulgent and sometimes over-the-top aspects of holiday celebrations.
  (05:27 – 06:06)

• "Hulk Grip" Story:
  Armstrong shares an embarrassing moment of struggling to open a water bottle, humorously attributing it to having an overly strong grip.
  (06:44 – 07:01)

These lighter segments provide a break from the serious topic, showcasing the hosts' chemistry and ability to balance humor with informative discussion.

---

4. Implications and Future Outlook

Timestamp: 14:31 – 17:07

As the episode progresses, Armstrong and Getty reflect on the long-term implications of Belgium's legislation.

• Getty:
  "The exercise of the right of refusal opens a protection period of six months during which the sex workers are protected."
  (11:23 – 11:40)

• Armstrong:
  "It's a rough line of work."
  (14:02)

They discuss the potential for similar legislation in other countries, the importance of worker protections, and the ongoing challenges in eradicating exploitation and trafficking. The hosts emphasize the need for continued vigilance and robust enforcement to ensure that the rights of sex workers are genuinely upheld.

---

Conclusion

Timestamp: 17:07 – End

Wrapping up the episode, Armstrong and Getty reiterate the complexities surrounding the legalization of prostitution. They acknowledge the positive strides made in Belgium while cautioning about the persistent issues that require ongoing attention.

• Armstrong:
  "It's difficult to quantify. Is this job a little demeaning? Yes. Yes, it is."
  (13:15)

The hosts encourage listeners to consider the multifaceted nature of such legislation, highlighting the balance between providing rights and addressing underlying societal problems.

---

Notable Quotes

1. Getty on Employment Rights:
   "We could have never dreamt that we would be here now. I think the most important thing is that we now make access to Social Security possible."
   (08:22)

2. Armstrong on Secondary Consequences:
   "It's like the young junkies in all the cities of blue America who got saved over and over again by getting arrested and having some compassionate cop saying, 'Hey, you don't have to do this.'"
   (10:11)

3. Getty on Exploitation:
   "Even if you legalize prostitution, there is absolutely still going to be exploitation, sexual slavery, underaged girls being raped for money because they can't give consent."
   (09:45)

4. Getty on Workplace Protections:
   "Employers will have to meet workplace safety requirements such as an emergency panic button."
   (11:17)

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand offers a comprehensive exploration of Belgium's progressive stance on sex workers' rights. Through thoughtful discussion and engaging dialogue, the hosts shed light on the benefits and potential pitfalls of such legislation, encouraging listeners to reflect on the broader implications for society and worker protections.

For those interested in understanding the complexities of labor rights beyond traditional industries, this episode provides valuable insights and a platform for further conversation.

---

Transcript

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ATV plus Terms hey, it's Jay Shetty with On Purpose. My newest episode is out now with Jordan Peterson. To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform?

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[Host 2]

Whatever that is.

[Host 3]

I've been so naughty. I've been meaning very naughty. I'm warning you.

[Host 2]

I'd been meaning to complain about. Geez, we've been talking about micro. Was it called super processed foods? Ultra processed foods. So I shouldn't be eating anything. And that comes in a plastic sack anyway. But I've been meaning to complain about the plastic sacks. The modern plastic sacks are so sucky. The kind of material they are, they don't rip like they used to. Like, you can't open the plastic inside a cereal anymore and then have it be together in such a way that you can pour cereal out. It shreds into different pieces and you just got a mess on your hands. And it's funny, there's an article in USA Today Today about that. The the effort toward having a smaller carbon footprint has led to these kinds of plastics for, like, chip bags. You know, if you ever open it, it just rips all the way down the side and all your pretzels fall out on the floor. It's not like the old days where you could just open the top and it's cheaper and greener. I'm guessing it has more to do with cheaper than greener, but the main one is it's not your imagination. Beverage containers are harder to open than they used to be, which is good news. I'm not just getting weaker and losing my grip strength because of the caps on so many things getting smaller and not as deep. You can't get much of a grip on it anymore. And it's just. It's just factually much more difficult to open things than it used to be.

[Host 1]

Huh.

[Host 2]

So if you've come across that, it's.

[Host 3]

Like, why can't I get products Like.

[Host 1]

I had a hell of a time with one of those milk cartons that has the little screw top in the.

[Host 3]

Middle of it the other day.

[Host 2]

Yeah, they use. They use that as an example.

[Host 3]

Those are super shallow. Yeah, you're right.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You can't get a grip on it. And they. They use that as an example Also.

[Host 3]

That reminds me, I have not yet eggnogged.

[Host 2]

What's holding you back?

[Host 3]

I gotta put that off as long as possible. The fact that I'm doing okay weight wise right now.

[Host 2]

Katie, do you know Joe's eggnog game?

[Host 1]

I don't.

[Host 3]

Well, I used to say back in my younger and wilder days when you should have known me that.

[Host 2]

Back when you were hanging out with Pete Hegseth.

[Host 3]

Oh, yeah. Mo the times we had. If you can't read the newspaper through your eggnog, it's too weak.

[Host 1]

Got it.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Got an. Our old boss used to have a party at his house where he'd make eggnog with a big block of Haagen Dazs ice cream in the homemade from scratch eggnog. It was so freaking good.

[Host 3]

I was unbelievable.

[Host 2]

And you'd be knee walking drunk by the end too, which was really great.

[Host 3]

Yeah, yeah. Goes down like a. Well, like a milkshake.

[Host 2]

Knee walking drunk.

[Host 3]

I haven't heard that one either. I like it.

[Host 2]

That's a George bus. And he knew. So drunk. The old style milk Carton caps were 21 millimeters tall, while the new ones are 17 millimeters tall. That's a difference of 19%. That seems to be enough to make it impossible to grip by most people. And so you just can't get a grip on it to open the dang thing. And I've had that experience and thought, am I just weaker? What is the problem here? So people are having that. And the other thing, I haven't had this experience yet. They've made the plastic so thin on a lot of bottles, when you twist the lid, the whole bottle twists so you can't get any resistance to open the dang thing up.

[Host 1]

Yes, I. I had a really embarrassing moment the other day where I took the cap off of my water bottle and apparently I have a hulk grip because the hand I was holding it.

[Host 2]

With the water just sprayed everywhere and.

[Host 3]

I was like, okay, Wow.

[Host 2]

I don't know my own strength.

[Host 3]

Yeah, squeezing too hard.

[Host 2]

That is interesting. Well, they got to find a sweet spot, obviously, and make the lids a little taller.

[Host 3]

Speaking of squeezing too hard and finding the sweet spot, here's good news. This is one of Michael's pet causes. He's marched, he's Twitter hashtag, he's written letters to congress. And that's the rights of prostitutes in Belgium. And good news. Belgian prostitutes have been given full employment rights as sex workers under a new law that entitles them to Social Security and pensions. Finally, the law is creating a new category of employment. I would try the French, but I haven't studied French in many years. Essentially, sex workers, which requires an official employment contract. This will cover and regulate working hours and pay, including prostitutes working part time as gig workers or while studying in higher education.

[Host 2]

I'm a part time prostitute, I'm a.

[Host 3]

Student and I do sex work on the side to cover my tuition.

[Host 1]

I'd be racking up overtime.

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly. Time and a half.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And putting more toward your retirement.

[Host 3]

Exactly right. I can't wait till I get off my back and can take a rest or something.

[Host 2]

And you're going to retire when you're like 30, probably from that gig, says.

[Host 3]

Don Bowens, director of the Belgian Union for Prostitutes. What do we want? What do we want it quote, we could have never dreamt that we would be here now. I think the most important thing is that we now make access to Social Security possible.

[Host 2]

We did a whole panel with sex workers once years ago. Do you remember that?

[Host 3]

Yeah, I do.

[Host 2]

In studio. Yeah. It was very, very interesting. And I know I've gone back and forth on this on whether it should be legalized so then you'd have some rights and police protection and stuff that you don't have now. But then the experience with legalized marijuana in California is that you have as active an illegal market as you ever did in just a different way. Because I have a feeling that, you know, the cartels or Chinese massage slaves are still going to exist even if you legalize prostitution.

[Host 3]

Exactly. This is one of my favorite. Not that it's good, but it's, it's, it is clear one of my favorite illustrations of secondary consequences. And on down the line, you legalize prostitution, there is absolutely still going to be exploit, exploitation, sexual slavery, underaged girls being raped for money because they can't give consent, they're underage, it's rape. The most horrifying parts of sex trafficking will continue to exist and the cops will no longer have the ability to investigate it and intercede in it in the same way.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 3]

Because it all exists barely behind the scenes of the not as horrifying stuff.

[Host 2]

Interesting.

[Host 3]

It's like the young junkies in, you know, all the cities of blue America who Got saved over and over again by getting arrested and having some compassionate cop saying, hey, you don't have to do this. Here's this program. Whatever, it just, it makes all of it too easy, including the really, really unpleasant stuff. And you got that. And then there's this. I can't remember. There's probably a clever name for it. It's the principle. The speed limit is 60. They don't expect you to go 60, but you sure as hell aren't going to go 90. And that, I don't know if there's a Latin phrase for that legal philosophy, but to keep the really ugly stuff going from happening, we're going to have a law that's not super strictly enforced just so when we see the super ugly stuff, we can jump in and do something about it. And I realize it's kind of wishy washy and I wish the world didn't work like that, but it does. Getting back to the hoes of Belgium.

[Host 2]

I assume the johns would dig this because it's legal. And oh yeah, you don't have to worry about blowing up your.

[Host 3]

Unless you're a real sicko. Yeah, yeah. One important, important employment, right, is that sex workers are able to refuse a client or sexual act without fear of being sacked by their brothel. Say the Belgian sex workers.

[Host 2]

Sacked by a brothel is a good phrase.

[Host 3]

That's a phrase, yeah, yeah. Isn't it? The exercise of the right of refusal opens a protection period of six months during which the sex workers protected. Okay, that's just the legalese. It gets a little troubling here.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 3]

Employers will have to meet workplace safety requirements such as an emergency panic button. And hygiene rules require that rooms must be a certain size, equipped with clean bedding and bath linen as well as condoms and access to shower and toiletries.

[Host 2]

Yeah, bedding requirements. Ew. Like how often are you changing those?

[Host 3]

As often as possible. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Ew.

[Host 3]

Yeah. Where's the. Did I skip over that somehow some of the gals talking about how since they don't get time off. And where is that? I sort of caught. I read that in this article. That's funny, I'm probably skimming over it. But this one gals talking about because we have no vacation or anything like that. I had to work till I was eight months pregnant.

[Host 2]

Oh my God. Okay, see, that's awful.

[Host 3]

That's a kink of somebody to be doing that.

[Host 2]

Oh my God.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Ew.

[Host 3]

I mean, look, there are many examples of a couple continuing their amorous activities while into pregnancy.

[Host 2]

Sure, that's Fine.

[Host 3]

Safe, healthy and fine. And fun.

[Host 2]

Okay, that's not what we're talking about.

[Host 3]

No, right, exactly. But paying for it. And she's got to show up to work and do it just because she's got to put food on the table. It's just. And she's about to pop. No.

[Host 2]

Hey, son. Brandon, funny story. Now that you're 12, I feel like you're old enough to tell you right before you were born, you're getting poked in the eye. Yeah. God dang it.

[Host 3]

Yeah, I know. It's just. It's so demeaning. Yeah. Don't demean yourself, folks. It's. There's a cost to your soul. It's difficult to quantify. Mean, is this job a little demeaning? Yes. Yes, it is.

[Host 2]

As demeaning as being eight months pregnant and taking the high hard one for somebody for cash. No, not that demeaning.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

God, that's rough.

[Host 3]

It's a rough line of work.

[Host 2]

Yeah, true. I don't know. We should try. Well, I guess we have it kind of in Nevada at the brothels. It's kind of legal.

[Host 3]

True. Ish. Yeah.

[Host 2]

I ain't been so. I don't know what it's like.

[Host 3]

Belgium was the second country in the world to decriminalize prostitution after New Zealand in 2003.

[Host 2]

There you go. It's a little Hygiene requirements, you say? I'm all for that.

[Host 3]

Oh, please. Yeah. As many as you. As many as you want. All of them. I'm in favor of all of them. Exactly. Well, which Tupperware lids do you find hard to open? Just email us.

[Host 2]

Okay. Well, I guess that's it.

[Host 1]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Host 3]

Partisan?

[Host 1]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Host 2]

I'm thirsty. Watch.

[Host 1]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and.

[Host 2]

Wow, it's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already.

[Host 1]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Host 2]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Host 3]

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartisia. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay.

[Host 1]

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[Host 3]

Jay Shetty with On Purpose. My newest episode is out now with Jordan Peterson. To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform?

[Host 2]

That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can.

[Host 3]

Do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.