Listen To This & We Expect Your Gratitude

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand: "Listen To This & We Expect Your Gratitude"

Release Date: May 20, 2025 | Host: Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty | Produced by iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the "Listen To This & We Expect Your Gratitude" episode of the Armstrong & Getty On Demand podcast, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty delve into a range of pressing political and societal issues. From dissecting Jake Tapper's controversial book on President Biden to exploring China's expanding espionage efforts in the United States, and scrutinizing the complexities of the American healthcare system, Armstrong and Getty provide their insightful takes on matters shaping the nation.

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Dissecting Jake Tapper's "Original Sin"

Timestamp: 01:10

The episode kicks off with a critical discussion of Jake Tapper's forthcoming book, "Original Sin," which examines President Joe Biden's decline. Armstrong and Getty question the necessity and timing of the book's release, suggesting that the information Tapper presents should have been openly discussed earlier.

Joe Getty [02:25]: "Don’t news people have to tell you what they know when they find it out? Isn't that the difference between news and a 'you won't believe what we found out'?"

The hosts express frustration over Tapper's approach, highlighting the use of heavy literary quotes to introduce the book's themes, which they find unnecessarily grandiose.

Joe Getty [04:05]: "They told me everything. They told me I was everything. Tis a lie. I am not."

Armstrong and Getty argue that the book reflects a smugness in expecting gratitude from the public for unveiling truths about Biden's cognitive abilities and the administration's handling of information.

Jack Armstrong [05:34]: "The tone of this is 'Listen to this, and we expect your gratitude.' You should be grateful to us for exposing these truths."

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China's Expanding Espionage Efforts at Stanford

Timestamp: 14:33

The conversation shifts to national security, focusing on a 60 Minutes report about China's intelligence operations targeting Stanford University. Armstrong provides a detailed account of how Chinese agents, masquerading as researchers and students, infiltrate academic institutions to gather intelligence.

Jack Armstrong [15:03]: "And they have a massive, massive effort to spy on the United States."

They discuss the tactics used by Chinese operatives, including the use of social media to recruit and manipulate students involved in sensitive research areas related to the Chinese economy and military.

Journalist Clip [14:07]: "With the help of experts familiar with espionage tactics, Anna contacted the FBI. It revealed Charles Chen had posed as a Stanford student for years."

Armstrong and Getty express concern over the pervasive nature of these espionage activities and the challenges in mitigating such threats within prestigious academic settings.

Joe Getty [18:25]: "Don't ever throw around KGB or something like that. That's the past. MSS is what is going to ruin your life. That's the modern KGB of China."

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Healthcare System Under Scrutiny: Medicaid and Obamacare

Timestamp: 20:00

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to examining the American healthcare system, specifically the expansion and implications of Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Joined by healthcare expert Craig Gotwells, Armstrong and Getty critique the exponential growth of Medicaid coverage and its impact on taxpayers and the efficiency of healthcare delivery.

Podcast Host [21:03]: "Originally designed to cover 2% of Americans, Medicaid today covers about 1 in 3 Americans."

The discussion highlights the disparity in federal funding between traditionally disadvantaged groups and the newly covered able-bodied adults, questioning the sustainability and intent behind these expansions.

Jack Armstrong [22:38]: "If you are a 28-year-old dude smoking pot in your mom and dad’s basement right now, Medicaid’s paying 90%."

Gotwells elaborates on the financial inefficiencies introduced by Obamacare, emphasizing the ballooning costs and the government's role in perpetuating entitlement programs.

Podcast Host [25:53]: "They projected Medicaid would cost less, but by 1992, it was 17 times higher than expected."

The hosts advocate for alternative healthcare models, such as direct primary care, to circumvent the convoluted and costly government-run systems.

Podcast Host [31:27]: "Buy as little insurance as you can. Buy the highest deductible, go ahead, don't get sick."

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Breaking News: Jail Protocol Breakdown in Louisiana

Timestamp: 34:07

Amidst their discussions, Armstrong and Getty report breaking news about a security breach at a Louisiana jail, where seven inmates escaped due to a protocol failure. They scrutinize the potential internal collusion and the repercussions of such negligence.

Joe Getty [34:07]: "Any family member who was scared or frustrated, they have every right to be."

The hosts highlight the suspension of staff members and the investigation into whether the escape was an inside job, reflecting on the broader implications for prison safety and administrative accountability.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Armstrong and Getty maintain a critical lens on political narratives and institutional practices, urging listeners to question official accounts and seek transparency. Their discussions on Jake Tapper's book, China's espionage tactics, and the flaws within the American healthcare system underscore a consistent theme of skepticism towards established authority and a call for more responsible governance.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Getty [04:05]: "They told me everything. They told me I was everything. Tis a lie. I am not."

• Jack Armstrong [05:34]: "The tone of this is 'Listen to this, and we expect your gratitude.' You should be grateful to us for exposing these truths."

• Joe Getty [18:25]: "Don’t ever throw around KGB or something like that. That's the past. MSS is what is going to ruin your life. That's the modern KGB of China."

• Podcast Host [21:03]: "Originally designed to cover 2% of Americans, Medicaid today covers about 1 in 3 Americans."

• Jack Armstrong [22:38]: "If you are a 28-year-old dude smoking pot in your mom and dad’s basement right now, Medicaid’s paying 90%."

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and perspectives presented in the podcast episode. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Jack Armstrong]

The Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. Armstrong and Getty. And now, here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Alex Thompson]

We're back with breaking news and our politics lead and a brand new excerpt from my upcoming book with Axios. Alex Thompson. It's called Original Sin. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. It's on Biden's decline. It's called Original Sin. I'm sure you've heard on May 20th.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's Tuesday.

[Alex Thompson]

Original sin that's coming out in three weeks. Comes out Tuesday. You will not believe what we found out.

[Joe Getty]

Don't news people have to tell you what they know when they find it out? Isn't that the difference between news and a you won't believe what we found out? No, that's why I'm watching breaking news in a week. John Stewart always been good at cutting through to the obvious with things like that. Like one of his quotes from John Stewart last night on the Daily Show. He does it once a week. And we're about to talk about the Jake Tapper book, which I don't know the title of and it doesn't matter. I'm not looking it up and I refuse to mention it. Um, but Jon Stewart says, forget about the fact of how effing weird it is that the news is selling you a book about news they should have told you was news a year ago for free. He's selling you a book full of information he should have told you last year for free. Which is a pretty good point, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, that's what you do for a living.

[Joe Getty]

Well, tape Tapper is claiming that these people weren't willing to say this stuff out loud, a lot of them, until after the election, which is true. But the, the ultimate point of Biden's brain didn't work. Everybody already knew, so whatever. So as I mentioned, it's unintentionally hilarious, this book. I bought it like a month or so ago.

[Podcast Host]

I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

I wasn't drunk. I don't know what made me do it, but I bought it. And so it showed up in my, my Kindle last night and I started reading it and I'm kind of angry that I put money in their pocket because of all the stuff we've said. And it's, it's, it's. It's hard to believe it even exists. I mean, like, like John Stewart said, it's effing weird.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

That it even exists as a thing. But. So they took themselves so seriously. I believe they would, they would do this differently if they knew how it was going to land after all the criticism and Mark Halperin last week taking apart his explanations of how tough he was and all that sort of stuff, because they go way over the top with the seriousness this, the whatever page it is before the book starts. I don't know what you call that page. It has a couple of quotes. One from Ulysses, a poem by Alfred, Lord Tennyson. Though much is taken, much abides. And though we are not. No, I won't read the whole thing. It's very long. But some long, complicated poems. And then also a quote from King Lear, William Shakespeare. They told me everything. They told me I was everything. Tis a lie. I am not. Aug. Proof which I had to look up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Aug.

[Joe Getty]

It was some disease back in the day. But to. To. To have these, like, heavy literary quotes before you start to tell us something we already knew is weird.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. And you were nearly the only class of people on earth who were either blind to it or pretending otherwise.

[Joe Getty]

I'll read some more from the. Like the, the intro before they get to the book. The lessons from this book go beyond one man and one political party. They speak to more universal questions about cognitive dissonance, group think, courage, cowardice and patriotism. Yeah. Toward you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

With you being like the main. You and your friends.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

Not us, you. We knew. We knew and we're reacting that way. That's what drove him out of office. The polls showing you couldn't win because we knew you're the one. This paragraph is about you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, exactly. It's funny, you were talking about John Stewart cutting through the clutter to get to the simple truth of it. This sim. It just occurred to me, the simple truth of this is. The tone of this is. Listen to this, and we expect your gratitude. You should be grateful to us for exposing these truths. Hilarious smugness of it. No, Jake, no. You're the one group of people on earth who can't be smug about this and can't lecture anybody.

[Joe Getty]

He does go with this long Orwell quote, which we usually read part of, but not the whole thing, and I will, just because it's so damn interesting. And he, he puts this in there also. Georgia Orwell once wrote that we are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue. And then when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time. The only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield. He was writing about World War II, but he could have been writing about anytime, any era. The Germans and the. Back to the quote from Orwell. The Germans and the Japanese lost the war quite largely because their rulers were unable to see facts which were plain to any dispassionate eye. To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle.

[Podcast Host]

Which.

[Joe Getty]

Is very, very interesting. And I doubt that Jake, when he put that quote in there, was thinking about himself. The, the. The be being able to believe something we know to be untrue. And then when we are proved wrong, twisting facts to show we were right. That is exactly the Jake Tapper story of the last week. 100%.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And then Jake writes. Jake and Alex. We should throw in Alex Thompson's name, who gets a lot of credit from a bunch of people for actually being kind of tough on the Biden people. But he was not as big a star, so didn't get mentioned as much. Here was what is in front of our noses. Yeah, your nose. You're the one with the sources.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. This is one of the most stunning examples of a lack of self awareness I've ever observed.

[Joe Getty]

As I mentioned earlier in the show, one thing that did come out of the book that I didn't know was just how much they were lying to their own people. Not just the public or Fox or whoever, or even the media, but like their own friends, the tightest circle was lying to people that they are friends with and have known forever. And that's part of why those people believed it. I mean, you wouldn't expect, like your own colleagues that you have a personal relationship with. When you go to him and say, I saw the President on the TV last Night. What is going on? Oh, he's fine. He is fine. Trust me. Behind closed doors, he's fine.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, he'd had a long day, he didn't sleep well the night before, but he's sharp as tack.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I'll just read a little bit from the book. Publicly and privately defending the president and his acuity, I spoke with the White House and campaign officials regularly and received constant reassurance. He's fine, he's fine, he's fine. They all said, you know, I'm not giving Jake Tapper a pass because again, the public figured it out without any sources. But if Jake Tapper is going to people he trusts and is friends with and goes out for drinks with and saying, what's up? And they're saying, trust me, he's fine. You gotta trust me on this. I'm with him every day. He's okay. I don't know, what do you do? This was the experience of dozens of officials, from politicians to donors to left leaning pundits. In the spring of 2024, this Democrat called top White House officials every day. I'm defending this guy. The top Democrat told him, someone tell me he's okay. Like it doesn't look great. The press conferences don't look great. He was reassured every time the top Democrat told us, I'd love to know which top Democrat this was. Anita Dunn told me he was fine. That's one of the inner, inner circle. Jeff told me he's fine. Jeff Zion's chief of staff told me he was fine. Donlin said, I promise he's okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

To their face, yeah. To wallow a little longer in Orwell, though, it sounds like Jake Tapper and these people are being told by the friends and associates, ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears.

[Joe Getty]

The President was fond of using the formal family motto of giving my word as a Biden. But they had another, more private saying in the Biden family. Never call a fat person fat. It wasn't about politics. It was about ignoring ugly facts. Don't say mean truths is how someone close to the family put it. The Biden's greatest strength is living in their own reality. This person told us. And Biden himself is gifted at creating it. Bo isn't going to die, Hunter. Sobriety is stable. Joe always tells the truth. Joe cares more about his family than his own ambition. They stick to the narrative and repeat it over and over, inside and outside the family.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow, that rings true. From 2020 to what I've been able to observe of their family.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, from 2020 until 2024. All this resulted in an almost spiritual refusal to admit that Biden was declining. I thought that was interesting, for instance, about lying about health situations. Beau Biden, who died, the son that he referenced all the time of cancer, was the sitting Attorney General of Delaware. He had a important public position in the state. He lied about his cancer the way his dad has been lying about his cancer currently. In the summer of 2013, Bo collapsed during a family vacation and underwent brain surgery to remove a tumor. Bose term it was definitely stage four. Biden later wrote about the post operative findings. It was a death sentence, Hunter wrote. Beau began limiting his public appearances. His fall, he stopped doing media interviews. He appeared gaunt. But Biden and Bose team internally debated not to disclose about VO Beau, the vice president's son and state's top law enforcement officer, but ultimately said nothing. In November, Beau told the local reporter that he'd been given a clean bill of health. This was not that many months before he died. So he was lying in his own state in a position where the voters should know you're dying and not capable. And they were flying him all over the country doing these experimental cancer treatments and everything like that. I mean, on one hand you got like you brought up last hour, you've got your own personal health and how much do you need to share with people? But on the other hand, you're not able to do your job that the people put you in office for at all. And you're, you know, you're looking at people in the face and light. But the point I think from Jake Tapper and Alec Thompson in the book by laying that out is the Biden family just created their own reality about whatever story they wanted to and always did to the media. They didn't, they didn't think the telling people honestly what was happening was necessary at all.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. Clearly.

[Joe Getty]

Which fits.

[Jack Armstrong]

Interesting. More on this to come, including some great audio we want to play for you. But first, a word from our friends at Trust and Will. And speaking of building, you know, throughout your life and protecting your family and that sort of thing, those things we build our future around are things worth protecting. And making an estate plan now means gaining security of your assets and peace of mind for you and your loved ones. And with Trust and Will, you can create and manage a custom estate plan starting at just 199 bucks.

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[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Judy and I have. It's so important and it's so comforting. It seriously is website again, very easy to use. It's very, very informative. To secure your assets and protect your loved ones with trust and will, visit trustandwill.com Armstrong they have a nice discount for you because you are our friends. That's trustandwill.com all sorts of options too, depending on your budget and your reality. It is not one size fits all. Trust and will.com/armstrong.

[Joe Getty]

So I got another example from the book, maybe I'll get to next hour of how early and how bad Joe Biden's brain was and how people, how worried the inner circle was about him. He, he was, he was, he shouldn't have run in 2020. Absolutely shouldn't have run in 2020, let alone 24.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's been my position for a while. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Which is pretty cool.

[Jack Armstrong]

Cover up was in full force. Early, early, early.

[Joe Getty]

Yep. We are going to talk to our favorite healthcare expert Craig Gotwell's this hour to tell you about Medicaid and how you're getting ripped off, among other things.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. How a program designed to cover a tiny few unfortunate Americans is now covering about a third of us or more.

[Joe Getty]

And the reason we're gonna be talking about it is a lot of whether we cut this back or not is part of the big beautiful bill that the Republicans are trying to push through. So you should know more about it. Among other things we've got coming up today.

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[News Anchor]

This is in scale and in scope and in brazenness the biggest espionage operation against the US in its history at.

[Jack Armstrong]

60 Minutes talking about the Chinese intelligence efforts against the US going on right now as we spe break. Let's hear one more clip, Michael. And we'll discuss why do China's espionage efforts appear to be growing so big so fast under Xi Jinping?

[News Anchor]

Xi Jinping thinks it's China's time to move to the center of the world stage. Xi Jinping looks at the west and at the US and says these people are feeble minded and I'm going to be able to beat them.

[Joe Getty]

Hey, hey, I'm standing right here. I can hear you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hey, look at the president for the last four years. He thinks we're feeble minded. Where'd he get that impression?

[Joe Getty]

Says the United States as a whole. Hey, we can hear you calling us feeble minded. Yeah. See, the problem is I'm afraid they're gonna pull it off. Replacing the United States as being the center of the world. The only, the only thing stopping them are, are their own, like, internal problems. We're not doing a good job of stopping them. No.

[Jack Armstrong]

And they have a massive, massive effort to spy on the United States. Both the conventional spying, industrial espionage, and the rest of it. And I've told this story many times before, but I was acquainted with some folks from the FBI, counterterrorism, I'm sorry, counterintelligence, you know, efforts who went to a prominent college campus and told them, hey, you've got a bunch of Chinese agents on your campus masquerading as researchers and students and the rest of it, and were told by the university president, get off my campus, you racists. We are just coming through that part of the woke mindset, the rejection. It's xenophilia. If they're foreigners, they must be good because I hate my own country. And how dare you suggest that these nice Chinese people might be agents. Well, this is so interesting. From the Free Press, a story about specifically, and it's not unique to Stanford University, but there's a hell of a lot of it. The story is how China turns Stanford students into spies. And again, this is solid journalism. It would take me half an hour to read this whole thing to you, but it is old school. Many months spent journalism. Last summer, a man calling himself Charles Chen approached several Stanford University students unsolicited, using social media. They were almost all women and they were invariably researching China related topics. One of them was Anna, Stanford undergrad student, working on sensitive subjects linked to Chinese economy and military developments. At first, Chen's outreach seemed benign. He asked about networking opportunities. But soon his messages took a strange turn. He and he requested anonymity. He spoke Mandarin. He sent videos of Americans who had gained fame in China. He encouraged Hannah to visit Beijing, even offered to cover travel expenses. On and on. Told her how long to stay in China, short enough to avoid scrutiny by the government. Then he urged her to communicate exclusively via the Chinese version of WeChat, a platform heavily monitored by the Chinese Communist Party. Mentioned things he knew about her that she had never told him. And he asked her to delete screenshots after commenting on one of her social media posts. And on and on it went. With the help of experts familiar with espionage tactics, Anna contacted the FBI. It revealed Charles Chen had posed as Stanford student for years, slightly altering his name and online Persona. He was actually an agent of the Chinese Ministry of State Security, the MSS, who the 60 Minutes folks were talking about whose job it was to target Stanford students sympathetic to China who could be used to gather intelligence. And for years, concerns about Chinese espionage have quietly persisted at Stanford. Yet until now, no attempt has ever been made to gauge how pervasive it is. The answer we discovered after a year long investigation is very pervasive, everyone. Overwhelming evidence that the CCP is orchestrating a widespread spying operation at Stanford.

[Joe Getty]

Dang it. There's so much more to say about this. We have to bring it back up because we're out of time. Everyone should know the letter to mss. Don't ever throw around KGB or something like that. That's, that's in the past. MSS is what is going to ruin your life. That's the modern KGB of China.

[Jack Armstrong]

I would be delighted to go big on this anytime you want. We'll do it soon.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, we've got a lot. If you miss a segment, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand. Armstrong and Getty, they literally are trying to take health care away from millions of Americans at this very moment, in the dead of night. Oh my God.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God. It's a party of monsters.

[Joe Getty]

That's why they're having Republicans.

[Jack Armstrong]

They're monsters.

[Joe Getty]

That's why they're having the 1am vote tonight on the big beautiful bill to try to slide through in the dark of night. The cutting back on Medicaid.

[Jack Armstrong]

And so the Republicans, who are actual vampires can come out to vote too, because, you know, the sun is down. So Craig got walls originally. Craig the Obamacare lawyer. Because when Obamacare was in the works and passed, Craig would talk to us about it, longtime friend of the show and, and everything he said was true and virtually everything he predicted happened. In contrast to most of the coverage of it, which was garbage. Well, Craig is now Craig the healthcare guru. And we're going to talk a little bit about Medicaid, among other things. Craig Gotwells. How are you, Craig?

[Podcast Host]

I'm good. How are you, gentlemen?

[Jack Armstrong]

Terrific. Thank you very much. So what do you make of Hakeem Jeffreys quote there? And what is the reality of Medicaid?

[Podcast Host]

Well, it, it underscores just how we can never give anything to the government. This is why we can't have nice things, right? So in 1965, the federal government passed Medicare and Medicaid. And specifically with respect to Medicaid, the whole idea was, man, we need a safety net for like single moms with disabled children who are falling through the cracks. We need, we need this, this mechanism to Just capture the most disadvantaged among us to help them out and to give them, to give them a list. Right. So we did. And back when this was passed in 1965, it was designed to cover 2% of Americans. 2%. Today it covers 1 in 3Americans. And 41% of all babies burst in our country.

[Jack Armstrong]

Whoa.

[Joe Getty]

41% of babies born.

[Jack Armstrong]

So originally for the blind, the disabled, the utterly unable to help themselves, and now it is approaching half of us.

[Joe Getty]

Is that because we have so many more single moms with blind babies or what has happened?

[Podcast Host]

Well, you know, you get, you, you know better than I, Jack. This is entitlement creep. Government creep at its finest. I mean you, you, when we, when, when this really took took off and became insane was with Obamacare in the early, you know, Obamacare came into play. Obamacare was bribing the states because you know, the way this thing works, it's an agreement between the state and the federal government and there's shared financing, right. So the federal government couldn't just say to the states, you shall expand Medicaid. But what the federal government did is said, hey look, if you expand Medicaid to basically able bodied, working age people now, because we'd already, you know, had Medicaid for all the other categories you just mentioned, Joe, the government said, look, if you do that, will we, the federal government will pay 100% of it for some time and then we'll pay 90% of it. So all but 10 states went ahead and said, heck yeah, we'll take that deal. And so now with that Medicaid expansion that occurred with Obamacare, it's 90% paid for by federal taxpayers and it covers anywhere from 8 million to 14 million abled bodied working adults, or I should say able bodied adults, some of which are working, some of which aren't.

[Jack Armstrong]

And in a bizarre twist, correct me if I'm wrong, the federal government compensates the states at a much higher percentage for able bodied dudes smoking pot on their parents basement couch than they do for actual like disabled people and blind babies.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, no, that's exactly right. So that was the, that was the Obamacare bride. Because, because Medicaid already covered all those people we were trying to protect, you know, when we started this thing in the sixt. So it covered all those people that had disabilities, single moms, et cetera, the blind, the disabled. But it didn't cover just underemployed or unemployed able bodied adults. And so in order to get the states to agree to do that, the federal government had to Say, look, we know that we're only paying you an average of 50 to 65 cents on the dollar for your existing Medicaid and we know that's not enough to get you, the states to agree to go ahead and cover the adults. So we'll pay 90 to 100%, starting at 100%, dropping down to 90%. So yes, that's exactly right. If you are a 28 year old dude smoking pot in your mom and dad's basement right Now, Medicaid's paying 90%. The federal government's paying 90% of your Medicaid where it's only paying an average of $0.60 on the dollar in a state like California for a disabled mother with the child.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I'm thinking somebody I know specifically who has like a regular person with a job and is doing it the normal way and their incredible medical bills they got right now because they've had some health problems. That's very galling that they have these high medical bills with insurance and everything as opposed to if you got on some sort of government plan, it would all be covered.

[Jack Armstrong]

And Craig, I'm going to leave it up to your judgment how much you want to get into this, but there are all sorts of other perverse incentives that this law has caused states, you know, taxing hospitals to raise the amount spent. But then they get it back from the federal government, then they give it back to the hospitals. I mean, it's byzantine. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Let me just give you a couple nuggets on the cost of it. Just because what's happened is employers pay two to three times the cost of a hospital visit as Medicare and Medicaid dollar. So when you are on Medicare and Medicaid, you go to the hospital, you pay X. If you're on an employer sponsored plan, you pay two to three times X. Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Thus the bills. I was just talking about.

[Podcast Host]

Thus the bills. But even with that reality, gentlemen, if you're on Medicare, that cost per taxpayer is about 11,000 per year. If you're on Medicaid, it's 9,400 per year and for employer sponsored people, it's 8,700 per year. So even with that, now granted, employer sponsored coverage, generally younger, generally healthier, we get that. But even with this tremendous cost shift to the hospitals, it just, it underscores how inefficient these government programs are. When they passed Medicare. Now this is Medicare, not Medicaid, but they did all the financials together when they passed it in 1967. Actually two years in when they when they did an analysis on it, they said, hey, we think this is going to cost 12 billion by 1990, when in fact it cost 100 billion, they were off by a factor of eight.

[Joe Getty]

With Medicare, the bullet train of medicine.

[Podcast Host]

Yes, the bullet train of medicine. And now that there are some people making noises that gee, we ought to trim back the edges a little bit and get these able bodied adults off of it, you of course get the grandstanding of politicians, even those on the right screaming that it's murder in the streets.

[Joe Getty]

So Medicare is the one we all.

[Podcast Host]

Get when we cynical, it will.

[Joe Getty]

Medicare is the one we all get when we turn 65. But Medicaid is the one that the downtrodden poor folks allegedly.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah. Hey Craig, I want to do the numbers you did for Medicaid too. So in 1987, Congress projected that Medicaid would make special relief payments to hospitals of less than a billion dollars. By 1992, under a billion dollars, the actual cost was 17 billion. So there's 17 times as high. I mean if that doesn't tell you what you need to know about government entitlement programs and what they do, inevitably, well, you're too stupid to understand it. And I, you.

[Podcast Host]

And that one was in a five year span, Joe. That was their 87 projection for 92.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God, you're right.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that wasn't.

[Joe Getty]

Well and one of the problems, one of the problems is, you know, all government programs grow and you know, the high cost of good intentions and all that sort of stuff. But in this case you've got the added part that there's a bunch of people that want the government to run all of healthcare. So they're, they, they loved it. They're pushing the expansion. It's not just like normal bureaucratic creep there, they're pushing it. The more people covered, the more you can make the argument of, or already government health care anyway. Let's just flip the switch and go full on single payer.

[Podcast Host]

No, you're absolutely right. And the single payer, I'm just here to tell you the single payer path is a good 30 to 50% more expensive. Now those costs are hidden because of the way the money sloshes around. But you've, you've only got one payer of health care in America that actually cares what it costs and that's employers. That's it. The insurance companies don't care because the way Obamacare is written, they need more claims to make more money. The government doesn't care because the more healthcare costs the more budget they get to address the issue. The only, the only policyholder, the only tax, the only moneyed interest in this that actually cares is an employer. And it's dramatically shrinking. Those of us that get healthcare at work is shrinking every year.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know how we ever get this fixed. Cause like I, you've probably been listening thing, you know, I got whooping cough. So I've been to the doctor like yeah, four or five times, eight different medications. All these different bills, most of them tiny. I don't have the slightest idea what anything cost or I'll get a bill, I know I'll get a bill in a month for 180 bucks or 580 bucks, I don't know. And then I'll just pay it and nobody has any idea. And the randomness of those of us who have employee, you know, insurance, we don't, we don't know if we're getting ripped off or good price or whatever. So it's, it's complicated.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, it certainly is discouraging. Go ahead, Craig.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, and it's, it's not health Jack. By the, you know, a lot of people think that, hey, I have purple cross as my insurance. And so whether I go to Stanford or El Camino or Good Sam for this particular shoulder surgery should be about the same price because I have a Purple Cross PPO contract. Right. It's not. You can pay 10,000 for that shoulder surgery or 50,000 for that shoulder surgery with the same exact insurance card. It's utterly insane what's happening in the commercial market because government has crept into this unholy alliance with the commercial payers. And so you have this, you have this situation where it's crony capitalism at its absolute worst. You know, we're talking about, and we can tease for a future visit, but there are ways to get around this. But that relying on the government or this large commercial sector is going to kill us. And when I say the commercial sector, I mean the fully insured carriers, employer sponsored plans, self funded employer sponsored plans are the way to go. It's the only way to beat this and beat it back.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, we're talking to Craig Gotwell's Craig, the healthcare guru. Craig, I feel like at this point in the interview we ought to give people the local suicide hotline number. I mean, because it's so discouraging. So we've, you know, described this incredible, mountainous, wasteful, enormously expensive government program out of control. And if you as say a Republican, a Chip Roy, for instance, say, hey, can we have 35 year old guy smoking pond on his parents couch. Please pay a $35 copay when he goes to the doctor. You have Hakeem Jeffries screaming. You're literally taking health care away from millions of Americans.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that's, that's one problem though. The other problem is that's a Democrat. You got Josh Hawley, a Republican writing an op ed.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hawley has lost his soul. I hope he gets hit by a car. I abhor violence.

[Joe Getty]

Josh Hawley writes, I think in the New York Times last week. You know Republicans, hey, do not cut any of this. It's a bad political move. So where does that leave you?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, at this point gentlemen, I put my head down. I don't even listen to the big, the big picture anymore. And I just try and help one employer at a time. And I get individuals that contact me and they ask me what I do and I say buy as little insurance as you can. Buy the highest deductible, go ahead, don't.

[Joe Getty]

Get sick is your recommendation.

[Podcast Host]

Don't get sick. But, but find a doctor. Find a doctor who's left the system and engage in something called direct primary care where you give them anywhere from 75 to $200 a month, you treat, you work with them and then God forbid you have something giant happen, you have the highest deductible you can stomach to go deal with that, that issue. But you've got to cut insurance and government payments out as much as you can and work directly with doctors. And the good news is that system is growing, gentlemen. I talk to doctors every week that are leaving the system and going direct pay with individuals and not, not the $350 concierge model but like doing this for $100 a month, literally.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I love the idea of starting at that point in our next conversation with you Craig, and talking about that because one of the things I was going to bring up if we have time and we don't unfort some of the unholy vertical integration of the giant healthcare companies where they own the doctor, they own the hospital, they own the pharmacy, they own the pharmacy benefit manager which is an unholy murky cesspool of God knows where the money goes. And so yeah, the idea of checking out of that system, I love it. Let's talk off the air. We'll schedule you to come back because I think it'd be great for the good folks.

[Podcast Host]

Sounds great gentlemen, have a wonderful day.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, thanks Craig.

[Joe Getty]

Appreciate the time he has to come on all the time and bear bad News. I mean, it's okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I just, you know, as a realist, you've. Unlike the Biden family, the one thing you must do is understand reality. Or. Or you're. You're hopeless.

[Joe Getty]

I've been saying to Craig, and he usually agrees for years, I think the realist view is we're going to end up single payer health care. It's just when. When does it finally happen?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I suppose so. But in every single health, single payer healthcare system, people who can afford it go outside.

[Joe Getty]

Right? Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Gotta learn those ropes. Yeah. Dang it. Don't, folks. It'll be okay. Don't get sick.

[Joe Getty]

Just don't get sick. Or break anything. That's the answer. Stay here.

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[News Reporter]

Seven inmates tonight are still at large. These are dangerous inmates. They have serious charges. At least four are charged with murder or attempted murder. The sheriff's office says there was no guard assigned to the pod, only a technician who officials say stepped away to get food when this happened. Authorities now investigating whether this was an inside job. So far, three staff members have been suspended without pay. The district attorney says there was a complete breakdown in jail protocol.

[Joe Getty]

Any family member who was scared or frustrated, they have every right to be. So, breakdown in jail protocol, if it turns out as the breaking news is that one dude there helped him get out. Somebody worked there. Is that a breakdown in protocol? The people who work there aren't supposed to help people escape.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, the protocol is keep them in. Yes, there was a breakdown in that protocol.

[Joe Getty]

The maintenance guy helped them escape.

[Jack Armstrong]

Louisiana. So corrupt. Unbelievable. Hey, before we move on, after the conversation with Craig Gottwald's in the last segment about Medicaid and how bloated and horrible it is and how Obama care exploded it. Here's your breaking news. Trump moved to end the quarreling among various GOP factions. Quote, tell them don't f around with Medicaid. So the orders came from Trump to the gop. Don't do anything to reform Medicaid.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, I give up.

[Joe Getty]

So I just got a text from a friend of mine who, he's on the older end, but he said just got the Medicare statement for a cardiac ablation. $188,000 for an over at night stay, and he's gonna pay $52. But that $188,000, nobody has the slightest idea if that's anywhere close to reasonable. Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

No. Who gets it? I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

How'd you come up with that?

[Jack Armstrong]

Where's it coming from?

[Joe Getty]

Exactly. Yeah, that is no system. Anyway, the other breaking news we've got around the conference that's going on right now with Trump meeting with Republicans trying to get the big beautiful bill thing is he is completely flipped on salt for whatever reason. That is the whole getting deduct your state taxes in the blue states.

[Jack Armstrong]

State and local tax. Right, exactly. Deduction.

[Joe Getty]

Trump has flipped. He says raising the cap benefits. Raising the cap would benefit Democratic governors. We don't want to benefit Democrats. So he is against the salt thing now, having been for it pretty strongly for the last week. I don't know. I don't know what was going on there. And this just in, he just said to one congressperson, I know your district better than you do if you lose, because assault, you were going to lose anyway. So there you go. But anyway, that's the right thing happening. Assaults, the crime against nature, I mean, it's just horrible. Even though it would benefit me personally.

[Jack Armstrong]

What cap are they going with? 30 grand or.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know, I don't know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Or because the, the blue state guys were trying to raise it like 50 or unlimited.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, so that all the red states could pay for the blue states, you know, income taxes.

[Joe Getty]

Trump's actually at a microphone now, so maybe we'll hear that. And they have a meeting 1am for some reason tonight. I don't know what's going on.

[Jack Armstrong]

La getting tough on immigration. You're not going to believe it. Stay with us and Getty.

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Wow, thanks, dad.

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[Podcast Host]

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