Most Of Them Were Idiots

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "Most Of Them Were Idiots"

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Guests: Judge Larry Goodman (retired), Lanhee Chen (Hoover Institution, Stanford)

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Overview

This episode tackles the fallout and legal implications surrounding the high-profile political assassination of Charlie Kirk, featuring expert commentary from retired judge Larry Goodman. The hosts also dive into broader political topics with policy expert Lanhee Chen, including political violence, the U.S. justice system, California redistricting, Gavin Newsom’s prospects, and the evolving role of technology such as self-driving cars. The show mixes serious examination with candid, sometimes sardonic banter, peppered by asides on internet scams and American cultural quirks.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk & Legal Ramifications

Starts 03:00

• Case Details:
  Joe Getty summarizes the assassination—a young man used his grandfather’s rifle; confessed to his family and lover; charged with aggravated murder (for Kirk's political beliefs, crime in front of children).

  “They’re likely to go for the death penalty in this case. And in Utah, they shoot you, so I got no problem with that.” (Joe Getty, 03:40)

• Judge Larry Goodman’s Perspective
  Goodman, with 33 years of judiciary experience, provides these insights:

  • The overwhelming evidence makes the case a “slow plea” (defendant insists on trial despite inevitable guilt). (05:27)

    “We used to call it a slow plea. You’re gonna be found guilty. We all know it. But we have to go through the process.” (Judge Goodman, 05:27)

  • Defense strategies will likely focus on avoiding the death penalty, not acquittal.

    “They might raise issues about his mental health, his competency type of thing. But when you’re talking about the same jury ... you don’t want them mad at you by the time you start the penalty drop.” (05:54)

• Jury Oddities & Systemic Weaknesses
  Judge Goodman recalls a murder trial where he believed the defendant was guilty, but procedural errors and a swift jury verdict resulted in an acquittal.

  “It was my O.J. Simpson trial… jury found him not guilty … two hours later, they met him across the street for margaritas.” (07:30)
  He underscores the legal principle favoring error on the side of freeing the guilty over executing the innocent:
  “I think it’s better to have a guilty person go free than have an innocent person be executed…” (09:04)

• Limitations of Justice and Cops’ Accountability Goodman reflects on painful rulings to exclude crucial evidence due to procedural errors, reinforcing the need for higher police standards.

  "It was a crucial piece of evidence that the police messed up...there just was no legal way to let it in." (09:54)
  He describes a victim statement being inadmissible as hearsay due to her death before testimony (10:59).

• Media in the Courtroom
  Cameras alter trial dynamics and encourage grandstanding.

  “When cameras are in the courtroom ... lawyers play to the cameras, get a little more outrageous. …It changes the whole dynamics.” (11:49)
  Transparency is a theoretical benefit, but public access remains via physical attendance.

• Utah Death Penalty Specifics
  Utah’s aggravating circumstances for death penalty differ from California’s, focusing on risk to others during the crime.

  “They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he put other people’s lives at risk… and that the aggravating circumstances outweigh mitigating.” (13:11)

• Nature of Criminals: Idiocy vs. Evil
  Most defendants are “idiots,” some are “too smart,” and a distinct group are “pure evil.”

  “Most of them are idiots. …And I would have a third category. Some of them are just pure evil.” (14:26)

  • The "shark eyes" metaphor for emotionless, sociopathic criminals is referenced. (15:22)

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2. Technology & Self-Driving Cars

Starts 20:18

• Tesla Auto-Driving Flaws
  Joe Getty shares concerns about Tesla’s “Full Self Driving” failures at railroad crossings and contrasts this to Waymo’s more limited but safer, pre-mapped urban deployment.

  “I just don’t know if we’ll ever have completely self-driving cars all over the country.” (21:38)

  • Waymo maps exact city layouts, Tesla relies on real-time sensing—a key safety gap.

• Public Acceptance & Safety

  • Waymo’s safety record could significantly improve U.S. life expectancy.
  • Armstrong admits to unease about being “forced into automated cars.”

    “I just afraid we’re going to be forced into them and I don’t want to be forced into automated cars.” (23:13)

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3. Political Climate: Division, Redistricting & Newsom’s National Ambitions

Lanhee Chen interview begins 28:08

• Assassination’s Cultural Impact
  The murder of a political figure increases paranoia and fear even among average citizens.

  “People shouldn’t have to feel and think that way in a place like America.” (28:55, Lanhee Chen)

• Sources of Division: Echo Chambers, Social Media, & Redistricting
  California and Texas trends: redistricting draws like-minded groups together, reducing civil discourse and increasing division.

  “It’s good for us to have opportunities to interact with people with whom we disagree, and I think we need more of that in our society, not less.” (31:32, Chen)

• California Proposition 50 & Gerrymandering

  • Media frame the ballot measure as a proxy for Trump, not on its merits.

    “They’ve painted it as: do you like Donald Trump or not.” (32:52, Chen)

  • Arnold Schwarzenegger’s defense of citizen-led redistricting is cited.
  • Concerns that politicians, not citizens, would regain control under Newsom’s proposition.

• Gavin Newsom as National Figure

  • National party vacuum allows Newsom to step forward, especially appealing to Democratic primary voters.

    “Politics abhors a vacuum, and Newsom has stepped into that in a very real way.” (36:13, Chen)

  • Getty: “How can you run for president with the homeless situation, and the fact people are leaving your state?” (37:00)
  • Chen: Recency bias in politics helps, but a campaign should remind voters of Newsom’s full record.

• The Epstein Files: Media Obsession
  Both show little interest, calling attention to media’s fixation on the scandal’s lowest common denominator appeal.

  “It just keeps coming back… like a bad infection.” (38:27, Armstrong)

• Economic Concerns
  Outlook remains uncertain due to division in Washington and persistent inflation, though optimism lingers for improvement next year.

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4. Internet Scams: Romance & Phishing

Starts 45:03, picks up again around 46:20

• Armstrong shares a running gag about a romance scam.

  “To my lovely and wonderful angel, Jack…” (47:11, reading scam letter)

  • ChatGPT is suggested for crafting a fake reply, highlighting the surreal and comic aspect of such scams.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It’s going to be more like a slow plea. What we used to call when the evidence is so overwhelming of guilt that the person insists upon having a trial.”
  — Judge Larry Goodman (05:27)

• “Most of them are idiots. But I had … cases where the guy just thought he was smarter than everybody else… A third category is, some of them are just pure evil.”
  — Judge Larry Goodman (14:26)

• “When cameras are in the courtroom, lawyers play to the cameras, get a little more outrageous… It changes the whole dynamics.”
  — Judge Larry Goodman (11:49)

• “People shouldn’t have to feel and think that way in a place like America…”
  — Lanhee Chen (28:55)

• “They’ve painted it as: do you like Donald Trump or not... this is probably the fourth or fifth election cycle in a row where they're gonna run this playbook. And to date, they've been pretty successful with this.”
  — Lanhee Chen (32:52)

• “Politics abhors a vacuum, and Newsom has stepped into that in a very real way.”
  — Lanhee Chen (36:13)

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | News Brief, Case Background, Start of Judge Goodman Interview | 03:00 | | Legal Analysis: Evidence, Trials, Jury Dynamics, “Slow Plea” | 05:27 | | Jury Oddities, Cops & Evidence, Systemic Challenges | 07:30 | | Cameras in Court, Media Effects | 11:42 | | Death Penalty Standards in Utah, Criminal Typology | 13:11 | | Self-Driving Car Safety, Waymo vs. Tesla, Future Tech Implications | 20:18 | | Lanhee Chen Interview: Political Violence, Civil Discourse, Redistricting, National Politics | 28:08 | | California Prop 50, Gerrymandering, Media Framing | 32:47 | | Gavin Newsom’s National Prospects, Voter Memory, Campaigns | 35:57 | | Disinterest in Epstein Scandal, American Media Obsessions | 38:19 | | Economic Outlook, Federal Reserve, Voters’ Concerns | 40:12 | | Romance Spam & Email Scams, ChatGPT Gag | 45:03, 46:20 |

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Memorable Moments

• Goodman’s deadpan breakdown of criminal strategy and courtroom theater.
• “Shark eyes” as a descriptor for sociopathic criminals.
• Armstrong reading, with delight, a comically bad scam love letter, illustrating the wild side of modern internet crime.
• Chen’s nuanced analysis of how redistricting, media, and party leadership battles shape actual voting outcomes.
• Armstrong and Getty’s struggle to imagine Newsom’s appeal from “inside California” versus national Democratic punditry.

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Summary

This episode delivers a blend of true crime and legal analysis (anchored by Judge Goodman’s unflinching realism), a sharp critique of political manipulation and polarization (Lanhee Chen’s specialty), a skeptical look at technology’s promise and hype (self-driving cars), and classic Armstrong & Getty humor about the absurdities of American life—from spam scams to presidential etiquette. The tone oscillates between grave and irreverent, never losing its knack for quotable bluntness and wry cultural commentary on the state of the nation.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Judge Larry Goodman]

Broadcasting live from.

[Joe Getty]

The Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the.

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George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and G. The Utah county attorney says Charlie Kirk's alleged assassin used his grandfather's rifle to kill Kirk and afterwards praised that gun. Just one of the deeply disturbing details authorities revealed this afternoon. A short While ago, the 22 year old suspect appeared remotely from the Utah county jail for his first court appearance since the assassination of Kirk Robinson, wore a suicide prevention smock and did not show any emotion as the charges were read. He did clearly speak his name. The Utah county attorney says the alleged assassin confessed to his family and his lover. Seven charges against Robinson were announced, including aggravated murder. Prosecutors say aggravated murder because Kirk was murdered for his political beliefs and because the assassination happened in front of children. Is there more to that sentence that sounded like that was the beginning of a sentence? Anyway, I know they're going for the, they're likely to go for the death penalty in this case. And in Utah, they shoot you, so I got no problem with that. Shoot this scumbag after a trial. Doesn't sound like it's gonna be too complicated. Well, actually, we could ask a judge about that. Larry Goodman joins us. This is Katie's dad, who was a judge for the Superior court of Alameda County. For those of you across the country don't know, that's where Oakland is, Alameda county, for a very long time. How long were you a judge? Judge Larry?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I was a judge a little over 33 years.

[Joe Getty]

33 years, wow. So you got a bachelor's degree at Stanford. What'd you get your bachelor's degree in?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Political science.

[Joe Getty]

Okay. And did, were you planning to become a judge?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

No, I. With a political science degree, there's not a lot you can do except teach political science or go to law schools.

[Joe Getty]

Okay.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Went to law school.

[Joe Getty]

And then you went to law school. Do, do, do you have to go to law school to become a judge?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Yes, you do.

[Joe Getty]

You have to be a lawyer to be a judge. That makes sense.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Yes.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so I just want to get that out of the way. So, any thoughts? First of all, just as you've been following this as a, you know, as a citizen of the country who just happens to have a hell of a lot of background knowledge on the way court procedures go and whether or not people are found guilty or not, is he looking pretty dead, right?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I would say so. I mean, it sounds like from the news reports and what little bit I've read That he's pretty much confessed, and they can use all those text messages as statements against his own interests with his roommate that he said that he did it. So, yeah, I think it's going to be more like a slow plea. What we used to call when the evidence is so overwhelming of guilt that the person insists upon having a trial. We used to call it a slow plea. You're going to be found guilty. We all know it. But we have to go through the process.

[Joe Getty]

What will the defense attorneys even try, do you suppose?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

You know, in a case like this, it's going to. If they, the jury, they probably won't do a lot because it'll be the same jury that tries the case that will decide the penalty. And so they probably don't want to irritate the jury too much. So I think, though, they won't be trying any Hail Mary type passes. They might raise issues about his mental health, his competency type of thing. But when you're talking about the same jury deciding that your client state is the client decides your client's guilt or innocence, you don't want to mad at you by the time you start the penalty drop.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so there's a chance that the lawyers are thinking the best thing we could do for this guy is keep him from getting the death penalty.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Exactly, exactly.

[Joe Getty]

And if he's found guilty, he's never getting out, right?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I can't imagine. I mean, crazy things happen. I mean, even during the trial itself, you may have a. Every time you put a case in front of a jury, there's always the danger of having a lawless juror or a juror that has their own agenda that throws everything off track. But I would say that he's going to be found guilty and that if he is, he'll either get the death penalty or life without parole.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, we'll get back to him. And I got some questions about that. But have you been a judge in cases with a scumbag that you like, you fully believe they're guilty, but they ended up walking?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Absolutely. One of my big death penalty cases were the charge was he killed both his sisters and tried to kill his parents. And it was my O.J. simpson trial. It lasted four months. The jury found him not guilty of two counts of murder and two counts of attempted murder. And then about two hours later, they met him across the street from Margaritas.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. And when they. When the foreman read out we find, you know, so and so not guilty, were you just like, what?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I was. And I used to get the verdicts before they were read. Okay, I wanted to make filled out properly. And the jury came back after a four month trial. They came back with a verdict in less than two and a half hours. And the defense was so sure that there was going to be a guilty verdict that they, as soon as we found out there was a verdict, they asked if I would put their client on suicide watch before we started the penalty trial. And that wasn't necessary because the jury found him not guilty.

[Joe Getty]

So where does that leave you after years of doing this? A couple of different things. One, where do you rank our justice system compared to others in other countries or throughout history? Are we doing it better than anybody ever has? That's always been my belief, but maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm wrong about that. And where are you on the whole better to have a hundred men go free than an innocent man found guilty?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I think we do have probably the best system. The problem with our system now has become subject to a lot of politics. Jurors come sometimes come in with their own agendas. I've seen judges that get appointed to the bench that have their own agendas and do things that probably they shouldn't do if they were upholding their oath and not being partially trying to be impartial. And I think it's better to have a guilty person go free than have an innocent person be executed or spend 30 years in prison. The consequences are. It's shocking when you know somebody's guilty like I did in this case and they walked out. But you have to do. I had to actually make a call in that case that probably led to him being found not guilty because it was a crucial piece of evidence that the police messed up. And I spent three days trying to find out a way to let it in so the jury could hear it. And there just was no legal way to do that. So I had to make the ruling in favor of the defense. And I think that played a big part.

[Jack Armstrong]

I still live with that one.

[Joe Getty]

Well, big picture though, the way we're supposed to look at it is that forces cops to just be better, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I mean it wasn't just the cops fault. It was just the circumstances of a key witness that was going to testify. Matter of fact, it was one of the victims who eventually died. But she targeted her brother and said he did it. And I saw his face in the shotgun blast. And this was after she'd been in the hospital for two months. And the day before she was supposed to testify, she threw an Air embolism and died. And the statements that she made were not admissible because they weren't excited utterances or statements made in anticipation of death. So it was hearsay and wasn't admitted.

[Joe Getty]

So back to Utah. Scumbag. There's gonna be a tremendous amount of attention paid to this trial, obviously every aspect of it. This story is now what going on a week old and still leads everywhere all the time. So it's. It's had. You know, it's really gotten a lot of people's attention. I don't know if Utah has any specific rules around cameras in the courtroom or if it's a case by case circumstance, but what are. What's your opinion of cameras in the courtroom? It seems, while I'm as interested in anybody is watching these sorts of things, and obviously transparency is a good thing for our justice system. I just feel like it distorts things so much, I'm mostly against it.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I tried a lot of high publicity cases. Excuse me. And I never let cameras in the courtroom.

[Joe Getty]

That would have been your decision.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Yeah. When the cameras are in, yell. Generally, it's up to the judge to make the decision. And when cameras are in the courtroom, just try as hard as they may, lawyers play to the cameras, they get a little more outrageous. They get a little more flamboyant, a little more aggressive. Sometimes makes the jury feel uncomfortable because they don't want to have a camera person slip up and show their face. It changes the whole dynamics of a courtroom. So I never let them in.

[Joe Getty]

That's really interesting. You had friends, I assume judges that did that would. Would allow cameras in, though. What was their argument? Transparency.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Yeah, transparency. I mean, and sometimes the judges will play to the camera.

[Joe Getty]

Right? You become. You can become famous.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Think of Lance Ito.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

So if there's a camera there and you're feeling all judicial and everything, then you act a little differently if the camera pans on the bench. So there's just not a good. I get the transparency thing, but there's really not a good upside to having that kind of transparency. If people want to see the trial, they can come down and sit in the audience.

[Joe Getty]

Anything before we let you go, anything surprised you over the last several days since they got him arrested? Him. You know, he showed up in the courtroom first time. Anything we should be on the watch out for?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

No, I. It's interesting. Utah has a very strict death penalty. I was doing a little research on it, and the aggravation factor is that he exposed others to the risk of death. Or injury when he killed Charlie Kirk. And that's what they're going to hang the whole aggravating circumstance on to try to get the death penalty in California, there was a lot wider area of aggravation circumstances that you can use. But this is. They have to put prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he put other people's lives at risk and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the aggravating circumstances outweigh mitigating and that the death penalty is justified and appropriate. And that's a pretty good standard, so it'll be interesting to see plays out.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. I got another question before we let you go. All these years of watching people come before you, the ones that are guilty, how often are they idiots and how often are they. And how often are they too smart for their own good? I think that's what this kid's deal is. He's too smart for his own good. He thinks he, you know, can fix the world and get away with it and all that.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I had my share of. Well, I'd say most of them are idiots.

[Joe Getty]

Most of them are idiots.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Most of them are idiots. But I had a little high publicity cases where the guy was just thought he was smarter than everybody else in the courtroom.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

And it turned out.

[Joe Getty]

But yeah, yeah, that's. That's got to be something. When you. When you're looking at an idiot who committed a crime, you know, let's not talk about really hurting somebody because there's no excusing that, regardless of your. Your intelligence. But, you know, you try to pull off a rob in a bank or whatever, you must look at some of these people and think, God dang it, you had no shot in life. You're a moron.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, yeah, I mean, most of them are like that, particularly in Oakland. I mean, that's. That's just kind of a way of life. I would, I would have. A third category is some of them are just pure evil.

[Joe Getty]

Ah, that's a good one.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

In the room, you can have the idiot. Then you've got the ones that are just pure evil.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. And that. That might be what this. This shooter in Utah is also. He might just be evil.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

We talked about it before, the shark eyes, you know, and if you look at his booking photo, he's got those shark eyes again.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. Yeah. That is something you've talked to us about before. Hey, Judge Larry. Larry Goodman. Thanks for coming on the air today. Appreciate it.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Sure, Jack. Thanks for having me.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. If you. If you didn't hear us talking about that before, there are some people you look the judge said and cops will tell you this too. You do look at them or they look at you and you can just see there's there's no soul in there for whatever reason, you know, whatever's gone wrong. You can make your life a lot easier if you got a trust and or will, you know, something unexpected happens and then your family's fighting over the money and all this sort of stuff and even if they don't end up fighting for it, often the state gets involved and makes all kinds of decisions you would really hate and costs lots of money. You can avoid that with Trust and will create and manage a custom estate plan starting at $199. Trust based plans start at $499 but starting at just $199 and you can manage your trust your will online with their easy to use website that's set up state specific for various laws and all that have all your important documents in one place. How great would that be? With bank level encryption I've got all kinds of customer support customer support through chat, phone and email start to finish to help you with that. So secure your assets and protect your loved ones with Trust and will get 20% off on your estate plan documents by visiting Trust and Willcom slash Armstrong. That's Trust and Willcom slash Armstrong. Death penalty for this idiot almost certainly I think and he's going to be found guilty and he is going to get shot because in Utah, unlike California, the death penalty means you actually die. This is going to be quite the drama to follow over the next months and years. A lot more on the way. Stay here.

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[Joe Getty]

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Check us [e-mail] America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Tristan Redman]

Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Joe Getty]

Nationwide, a constant fear for train operators that a car or truck won't stop in time. In Texas, Italo Fregoli was sure his Tesla Y's full self driving mode would stop his car before the crossing arms. But he says it didn't. It just seemed like it didn't see it at all. And other Tesla drivers have similar complaints. Drivers reporting Tesla's full self driving software failed to recognize rail crossing since 2023. Tesla itself warns drivers not to rely on the auto driving software. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what to make of this yet. I have a Tesla with the latest self driving software in it and cameras and sensors and all the stuff that, and everything like that. And it's way, way better than it was a couple of years ago. It's pretty dang good. In fact, the other day we boys and I were coming home from a restaurant. I said let's see how it does. And I just pressed home and had it drive me all the way to the driveway. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. As good as I would drive her better the whole way. But every once in a while it does screw up. I don't know if we'll ever have completely self driving cars all over the country. Now you have Waymos in cities but they do a different thing where they map a small area. I mean they've got the, every tiny bit of San Francisco for instance mapped and that's in the car's computer. So you would have the railroad crossing in there. You know, a Tesla is coming along and it would just, would have to sense this. It doesn't know it's there. A Waymo knows where every crosswalk, railroad crossing, everything is in the whole city. Unless they come up with enough technology or map the whole country, every road and stop.

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I wonder why, why Tesla can't do that. I mean, why does, I mean it's, it's simple as in a software update. Why can't they do something?

[Joe Getty]

Because Waymo for years sent cars around San Francisco for instance with cameras mapping every curb crosswalk. I mean just every tiny detail. And it's so, it's not sensing these things, it's in the computer already. It would take a lot to map the whole country because you know when somebody buys a car where they're going to be driving.

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Well, let's go Elon. Spaceman.

[Joe Getty]

But I don't know. Elon the other day said that he thinks Tesla is going to be completely self driving in 26. You won't have to pay attention at all. I don't think that's going to happen and I just don't, I just don't think we're there yet. There's a, interesting study out today though, I'll have to get into it later because it's, it's kind of in the weeds but. So there's a gap in life expectancy between the United States and other countries. We're a little behind. Most of it could be made up if we all started riding in Waymos. I mean if you had the safety record of a Waymo or because of the car crash, car crashes, you eliminate the 30 some thousand deaths from automobile accidents every year. And our life expectancy gets right with everybody else's.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

Interesting.

[Joe Getty]

I know. So I don't know. I just afraid we're going to be forced into them and I don't want to be forced into automated cars.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

But I'm yet to ride in a Waymo. I want to though.

[Joe Getty]

You gotta.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

It seems cool. I just, I saw that video. It was during. I can't remember what name the riot. You know but a Waymo got stuck in one of those and like got the. Got the car surrounded and.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

You know so that. That scares me a little bit.

[Joe Getty]

But yeah. Well if you're not so I'm used to a self driving car so it's not weird. But if you've never done it before, getting in the back seat of a Waymo with no driver and having it drive off would feel pretty weird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean because you're sitting in the back seat and you're looking at the steering wheel and it's turning and it's doing its thing. I guess they're eliminating the steering wheel, everything. They're just gonna have benches in the front and the back waymos and so it's just like a little train car practically or something that just shows up and you get in.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Asma Khalid]

Check us [e-mail] America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Tristan Redman]

Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NFL Shop Advertiser]

A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all. Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else. And show up ready for every kickoff. And big play fan like a pro. And Shop [e-mail] Quake getting his race down, I guess.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Who knows? You never know. We're too late. But he's done a lousy job.

[Joe Getty]

Rates.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

The rate should be much lower. Much, much lower.

[Joe Getty]

That's Donald Trump referring to Federal Reserve Chairman Powell is too late. Hope he lowers rates. Well, that's what's expected to happen today. And we'll have more on that coming up. A little bit later. Trump headed over to England where I'm watching live on TV right now. You got people in funny outfits marching around playing bagpipes. Well, Trump and his model wife in a fancy hat sit there and watch. We'd like to welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show Lon He Chen to talk a little bit of politics. Lonhi is the David and Diane Steffey Fellow in American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, the director of domestic policy studies at Stanford University and a super smart guy about politics. How are you, Lonhi?

[Lon He Chen]

I am doing well, thanks, Jack.

[Joe Getty]

How, how are you feeling in terms of optimism or pessimism for the country after the last week.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, boy. Well, I'm.

[Lon He Chen]

Look, I think there are always reasons to be optimistic about America, but we're in a really challenging political moment right now, and we're in a very challenging time. I think, as we look at how people are reacting and responding to politics and obviously the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, which I know folks have talked about a lot. But what I continue to reflect is the way in which this kind of violence impacts people who, you know, aren't even elected officials. You know, just. Just people who are speaking up and expressing their points of view.

[Joe Getty]

I noticed myself when I've been pulling into the parking lots, like, is that car always there? I mean, just that sort of thing. And.

[Lon He Chen]

And, you know, people shouldn't have to feel and think that way in a place like America, where I think we've always valued our. Our ability to disagree civilly, but. But vociferously.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Lon He Chen]

And. I don't know.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I'm. Jack.

[Lon He Chen]

I'm a little concerned about where we are, but obviously, you know, there are a lot of bright spots. I mean, if you look at just. I think a lot of people have been truly compassionate in the wake of what happened. I think you've seen a lot of people who have decided that they want to be more involved in our political system and not less. And I think that's all good. But, you know, I do worry a little bit about how various things are making us more and more divided. You know, whether it's social media or, you know, the other thing I look at, I mean, not to tie a current event to all of this, but if you look at redistricting and all the battles over redistricting that are happening. What redistricting that. The way that politicians want to change the system here in California and elsewhere, by the way, Texas and other places, too, is to draw lines so that we are living next to more people and voting next to more people who we agree with rather than who we disagree with. And I think what that does is it creates a tendency for us to only be in an echo where we're hearing things we agree with, never getting. Actually have a civil debate about we disagree about.

[Joe Getty]

Hey, Long Ham. Unfortunately, we're having a problem with our connection. Can we drop you real quick? And then you guys do something. See if you can get that fixed. Maybe hang up on him and call him back in or whatever, because I have a couple of questions. Lonnie is actually one of the smartest people about politics we've ever talked to, certainly about California politics. And we want to talk about the redistricting measure that Gavin Newsom is trying to get going in November, which is almost certainly to fail. I was going to mention from an optimistic standpoint, I mean, I thought that all of those, all of those football stadiums that had a moment of silence, I mean, that. That was. Surprised me. I didn't think that that would happen about a divisive political figure getting gunned down. I mean, so there was a lot of that that made me somewhat hopeful. But then as Joe pointed out a little bit earlier in the show. Yeah, there's a lot of videos going around of people at gatherings cheering the. The death of Charlie Kirk. So that's the disheartening part. Anyway, we got Lonhill Chen back. The point you were making, Lonnie.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, sorry about that. I mean, sometimes technology fails us. What I was saying was that, you know, when you look at the redistricting and measures that are out there, whether it's California particularly, or Texas, what they do is that they draw these district lines to put more people who think alike together, as opposed to putting us in conversation and next to people with whom, you know, maybe we have some, some political disagreements. I actually think it's good for us to have opportunities to interact with people with whom we disagree, and I think we need more of that in our society, not less.

[Joe Getty]

So Texas decides to redistrict in the, in the middle of the decade, and it's their state allows them to do that legally. It's not unheard of. It's not common. The media studiously avoided mentioning to viewers who don't already know that lots and lots of states have been gerrymandered throughout our country's history. And a lot of blue states are already gerrymandered to death, including Illinois, where they all ran to anyway. So that's an old story. So now California is going to try to do it, or at least put it on the ballot for November 4th and change the rules here in California so that we could redistrict. Also, the polling shows that it's going to go down in flames. Are you standing? You think that's true?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I think it's going to be close, actually.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, really? Okay. You know more about it than I do.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, because I think the challenge is that anytime what you've seen with what Newsom and his allies have done on this initiative is they have painted it as not the issue that you framed it as, which are the right issues they framed it as. Do you like Donald Trump or not. And this will be the. Gosh, let's think about this now. This is probably the fourth or fifth election cycle in a row where they're going to run this playbook. And to date, they've been pretty successful with this.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And so I think that the worry for those of us who oppose this proposition and who don't believe it's the right course for California, I think the concern is that voters are not going to be choosing whether they like.

[Joe Getty]

Of course. Of course. You're right. You are so right.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's gonna be about, do you like Trump or not?

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I think in California, you know, and some, Some. Some of your listeners might not like hearing this, but the reality is that Donald Trump is not the most popular guy in California. And so I think that the dynamic they're setting up Here with Prop 50 is a dynamic that could end up moving in their favor. Now, there's a lot more information that's got to be distributed over the next couple weeks, and we've got, you know, a little over a month until Election Day. So I have some measure of hope that people will see through what this is. But I don't know, Jack. I think it's gonna be pretty close.

[Joe Getty]

You're absolutely right. I can't believe. Silly me, I thought it would be about the issue itself, but people wore masks or didn't wear masks because it demonstrated, are you for Trump or not? Not because of the disease. I mean, there's all kinds of examples of that. You're for or against climate change because everything you can mention is Trump for it or not. So, yeah, of course this is gonna be that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. And I mean, it's interesting, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who was actually the governor who originally led California's effort to turn our redistricting away from the politicians and to independent citizens, he actually spoke up sort of really significantly about this the other day for the first time. And, you know, even, you know, he's no great supporter of Donald Trump. But he said, listen, the effort that Gavin Newsom and his allies are undertaking with this proposition, that effort is really an effort to give the power to redistrict back to politicians and away from kind of an independent, more independent process, which we've had in California since 2008 and 2010 for congressional seats, we've had this process in place. And by the way, the process we've had has drawn complaints from both Republicans and Democrats, which is how, you know, it's working. Okay, probably. Right. And so, I mean, it was interesting to See Schwarzenegger get involved. I think a few other people may get involved who are not your usual suspects on this sort of thing. So I hope that voters are able to at least understand what the basic question is, which is, do we believe that district lines in California should be drawn by politicians or by citizens? And that's the fundamental question.

[Joe Getty]

So I see a lot of national pundits who aren't from California that are really high, and I mean, people that lean right who are really high on Gavin Newsom's chances of becoming president. I feel like being closer to him. I'm not as high. Where are you on that?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, look, I think there's two things here, Jack. First of all, there's just an absence of strong leadership on the Democratic side of the aisle. I'd say people who are perceived to be out there. And whatever you think of what Newsom's doing, he's out there. So I think that's the first thing is just politics abhors a vacuum, and Newsom has stepped into that in a very real way. I think the other reason that people sort of see him positively in particularly given what he's been doing with this redistricting proposition, is you gotta think about the composition of the Democratic primary electorate. And it's going to, on average, be more activist, more left of center. And Newsom's politics are a good match for that. So I think that's probably why people feel at the national level.

[Joe Getty]

I agree 100%. I could see him getting the nomination. That wouldn't surprise me. How can you run for president with. I just feel like the homeless situation, the people. The fact that people are leaving your state for the first time ever, a lot of those things. How do you overcome that?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I think that's what a campaign is for. Right? I think people need to be reminded. It's very easy. We have in politics recency bias. And so we look at, you know, what has someone done in the last 60 days or last minute, and we. And we forget about the French Laundry. We forget about, you know, his record. We forget about his record in San Francisco. We forget about his extremely progressive past, which I think is out of step with the vast majority of the American people. So that's what a campaign is for. A campaign is there to remind people of someone's record and who they are. And by the way, people can say, we know that. We're comfortable with it. I don't know that that's where they'll come out on someone like Gavin Newsom. But let's see. Let's see. I mean, like you, Jack, I think being. Being in or near California and seeing him in action up close for the last eight years, I think we have a point of view that might be very different from a point of view if you, if it hasn't been in your face for the last eight years.

[Joe Getty]

Just curious, since you're a smart guy and, you know, policy guy and all that, you spend a moment of your life thinking about the Epstein files.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, no, I don't. And I, and I find it interesting how, how much carry the story has no it in the sense that, I mean, I. It just keeps coming back. It's like, you know, it's like a bad infection coming back. Like I said, I can't think of. I mean, that is the sort of analogy I think of because I just. Every time I hear about the Epstein files are Epstein, I just cringe because I know there's nothing redeeming about this at all. This discussion about. About Epstein. There's nothing redeeming about it. It doesn't make us better as a country to have a conversation about the Epstein files. But, you know, whatever. People are interested in what they're interested and I don't want it to mean that, but for me personally, I have no interest in it.

[Joe Getty]

Me neither. What is. What is on your radar?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I mean, we've talked a little bit about the redistricting thing. I think that's a big deal. And then I am thinking a lot about as we go into this fall and into next year, you mentioned the whole thing with the Federal Reserve and with rate cuts and what might happen there. I do think the economy. We've got to kind of see what's happening because the message that I keep getting when I talk to, you know, everyday Californians that, you know, when I'm around and out. Yeah. I think there are a lot of people who are. Who are still having a tough time given the economy and they're looking at prices still being probably a little higher than they like. And you kind of wonder how the economy is going to perform. I'm optimistic about it. I think as we go into next year, things are going to pick up. But that is one thing that I'm concerned about. What the collective impact of all of the different policies we've seen in all of the division in Washington, what that will mean going into next year. I think that's going to be an issue worth watching as well.

[Joe Getty]

He is the Director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University and all around, good and smart guy, Lan Hee Chen. Thanks for your time today.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hey Jack. Always great to be with you. Thanks.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if Gavin can pull off running away from what he has been in California for all these years. But anyway, we'll have plenty of time to talk about that. It's pretty. I was talking earlier about this Ukrainian chick who keeps emailing me she doesn't exist. I mean, this is a scam. Obviously I'll have to talk more about that because it's kind of funny. But there are all kinds of scams out there that can catch you if you click on the wrong link or whatever. And to avoid that problem, you need Webroot. We, we trust Webroot Total protection. It's not just antivirus, it's anti identity protection for up to 10 people. By the way. You get, you know, you sign up and you get 10 people covered. So everybody in your family dark web monitoring up to a million dollars in fraud expense reimbursement to you get a VPN cloud backup, 24.7us based support, which matters to me. They have an elder fraud hotline which is huge for families. You get your identity stolen, you're looking at 200 hours probably of nightmare to try to get that fixed. Right now you can get 50% off Webroot total protection or Webroot [e-mail] Armstrong that's webroot.com Armstrong again. 50% off webroot.com/armstrong. Yeah, I have to read a little more from these emails that the, the, the hot young Ukrainian woman keeps sending me. It's not, it's a bot or, or, or, or, or a group of, of of drug cartel members from Mexico or whatever. But the emails are kind of funny and I just wonder, does anybody actually fall for these things? But that and other stuff on the way. Stay tuned.

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[Joe Getty]

Free.

[TiVo Advertiser]

No signups, no fees, just press play. That's TiVo plus free binge worthy and always on.

[Asma Khalid]

Check us [e-mail] America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, dc.

[Tristan Redman]

Hi, I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NFL Shop Advertiser]

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[Joe Getty]

What is that historic castle thing that Trump and King Charles are at? That's where Trump is spending the night, he and Melania. It's some country. It looks kind of like Buckingham palace, but it's out in the country. I guess that's where one of the many homes the royal family has. Why they allow this? But anyway, so Trump and King Charles are walking up the stairs and they're headed a direction, and Trump kind of puts his hand on King Charles back, like, you know, let's go now, or this way. Or like, you know, kind of like somebody who's directing you where to go. And he started to put his hand there and put his hand down. And I think he. I think he realized, I can't be directing the king where he should go in his own country. Probably oughta good move, follow him as opposed to direct him where to go. But that was a good move. So I mentioned this a couple of times just because I think it's hilarious. And I. I get how a lot of us fall for various Internet scams because there's a lot of, you know, looks exactly like it's from PayPal and it says, were you overcharged? And you see, you click on the link and now it was fishing. It wasn't real. I see how that happens. I fell for that once with an ebay thing. But I understand how you fall for these romance ones. So somebody had emailed me the other.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Day.

[Joe Getty]

Hey, I saw your picture somewhere. And there was a picture of a young woman and said, hi, I saw you. Her name is Tetty T E T I Z. And she said, hi, I saw your picture somewhere the other day, and I immediately fell for you. And I wondered if we could become pen pals and maybe more. And. And I thought, wow, what? It's. What kind of scam is this? There was no link, no ask for money. So I just replied, sure, why not? And that's all I've done so far. Okay. And now she has started sending me all these emails, and I get them almost every day. And like, for instance, I got this one yesterday to my lovely and wonderful angel, Jack. Oh, and there's a picture of her laying on a beach. Hello, my beloved baby Jack. I am back to you, sweetie, happy as always because weekends are over and I can write a letter. To my precious diamond, to my love and my destiny. To you, honey.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

Oh, boy, sounds legit.

[Joe Getty]

She really cares about you and. And. And the only interaction we've had so far is me saying, sure, why not? Jack, my sweetheart, I am a bit sad today because I came to the Internet cafe and haven't found your beautiful letter for me. It's always such a pleasure to see and read your beautiful letters. I have not said her any right, honey. And your warm words and thoughtful feelings, it makes me feel like we were meant to be together, that fate or destiny has given us a chance. My feelings for you have only grown into a giant rose of love. True beauty, sweet smells, positive thoughts and feelings, and bright lights at the end of the tunnel.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

What website did you go to for them to find you to send you this?

[Joe Getty]

Jack well, I think it could be anything really, but my feelings for you have grown into a giant rose of love. Okay, and she's told her parents about me. Oh, so she was with her mom and dad over the weekend, told her, told her parents all about me. All about me. Including yeah, he replied to me in one email. Sure, why not?

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

You have to respond to this.

[Joe Getty]

Well, I probably should. I think I'm maybe somebody smarter than can be. I don't think I'm doing any damage because this bot or criminal organization has my email. As long as I don't click on a link or send them money, I think I can't do any more damage. At this point.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

I'm no professional, but that's my thought process.

[Joe Getty]

Hanson says have ChatGPT write a loving response.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

Brilliant. Brilliant.

[Joe Getty]

You think I should go into a whole bunch of giant blossoming rows of love and all that sort of stuff?

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

Oh please go on to chat GPT give them a couple of prompts, get this letter going, fire it off during the show and see how fast they get back.

[Joe Getty]

One of the thing about our pictures that I like is there's a whole bunch of different pictures of attractive women, but they're clearly not all the same person. If you missed a segment or an hour, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[LG X Boom Advertiser]

Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time save 25% at LG.com with code fall25 bring the boom X Boom.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa with a modular design and changeable slipcovers. You can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[TiVo Advertiser]

Looking for entertainment everyone will love? TiVo plus has you covered with over 300 free channels. From movies for family night to kids shows, live news, sports and your favorite TV series all in one place. No signups, no credit card required. Just turn on and enjoy. And with new channels and fresh content added all the time, there's always something to watch. TiVo plus free, binge worthy and always on.

[Asma Khalid]

Check us [e-mail] America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America is isn't just a cause of global upheaval, it's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, DC.

[Tristan Redman]

I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NFL Shop Advertiser]

A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else and show up ready for every kickoff and big play fan like a pro and shop [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast.