Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "Most Of Them Were Idiots"

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Guests: Judge Larry Goodman (retired), Lanhee Chen (Hoover Institution, Stanford)

Overview

This episode tackles the fallout and legal implications surrounding the high-profile political assassination of Charlie Kirk, featuring expert commentary from retired judge Larry Goodman. The hosts also dive into broader political topics with policy expert Lanhee Chen, including political violence, the U.S. justice system, California redistricting, Gavin Newsom’s prospects, and the evolving role of technology such as self-driving cars. The show mixes serious examination with candid, sometimes sardonic banter, peppered by asides on internet scams and American cultural quirks.

Key Discussions & Insights

1. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk & Legal Ramifications

Starts 03:00

• Case Details:
  Joe Getty summarizes the assassination—a young man used his grandfather’s rifle; confessed to his family and lover; charged with aggravated murder (for Kirk's political beliefs, crime in front of children).

  “They’re likely to go for the death penalty in this case. And in Utah, they shoot you, so I got no problem with that.” (Joe Getty, 03:40)

• Judge Larry Goodman’s Perspective
  Goodman, with 33 years of judiciary experience, provides these insights:

  • The overwhelming evidence makes the case a “slow plea” (defendant insists on trial despite inevitable guilt). (05:27)

    “We used to call it a slow plea. You’re gonna be found guilty. We all know it. But we have to go through the process.” (Judge Goodman, 05:27)

  • Defense strategies will likely focus on avoiding the death penalty, not acquittal.

    “They might raise issues about his mental health, his competency type of thing. But when you’re talking about the same jury ... you don’t want them mad at you by the time you start the penalty drop.” (05:54)

• Jury Oddities & Systemic Weaknesses
  Judge Goodman recalls a murder trial where he believed the defendant was guilty, but procedural errors and a swift jury verdict resulted in an acquittal.

  “It was my O.J. Simpson trial… jury found him not guilty … two hours later, they met him across the street for margaritas.” (07:30)
  He underscores the legal principle favoring error on the side of freeing the guilty over executing the innocent:
  “I think it’s better to have a guilty person go free than have an innocent person be executed…” (09:04)

• Limitations of Justice and Cops’ Accountability Goodman reflects on painful rulings to exclude crucial evidence due to procedural errors, reinforcing the need for higher police standards.

  "It was a crucial piece of evidence that the police messed up...there just was no legal way to let it in." (09:54)
  He describes a victim statement being inadmissible as hearsay due to her death before testimony (10:59).

• Media in the Courtroom
  Cameras alter trial dynamics and encourage grandstanding.

  “When cameras are in the courtroom ... lawyers play to the cameras, get a little more outrageous. …It changes the whole dynamics.” (11:49)
  Transparency is a theoretical benefit, but public access remains via physical attendance.

• Utah Death Penalty Specifics
  Utah’s aggravating circumstances for death penalty differ from California’s, focusing on risk to others during the crime.

  “They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he put other people’s lives at risk… and that the aggravating circumstances outweigh mitigating.” (13:11)

• Nature of Criminals: Idiocy vs. Evil
  Most defendants are “idiots,” some are “too smart,” and a distinct group are “pure evil.”

  “Most of them are idiots. …And I would have a third category. Some of them are just pure evil.” (14:26)

  • The "shark eyes" metaphor for emotionless, sociopathic criminals is referenced. (15:22)

2. Technology & Self-Driving Cars

Starts 20:18

• Tesla Auto-Driving Flaws
  Joe Getty shares concerns about Tesla’s “Full Self Driving” failures at railroad crossings and contrasts this to Waymo’s more limited but safer, pre-mapped urban deployment.

  “I just don’t know if we’ll ever have completely self-driving cars all over the country.” (21:38)

  • Waymo maps exact city layouts, Tesla relies on real-time sensing—a key safety gap.

• Public Acceptance & Safety

  • Waymo’s safety record could significantly improve U.S. life expectancy.
  • Armstrong admits to unease about being “forced into automated cars.”

    “I just afraid we’re going to be forced into them and I don’t want to be forced into automated cars.” (23:13)

3. Political Climate: Division, Redistricting & Newsom’s National Ambitions

Lanhee Chen interview begins 28:08

• Assassination’s Cultural Impact
  The murder of a political figure increases paranoia and fear even among average citizens.

  “People shouldn’t have to feel and think that way in a place like America.” (28:55, Lanhee Chen)

• Sources of Division: Echo Chambers, Social Media, & Redistricting
  California and Texas trends: redistricting draws like-minded groups together, reducing civil discourse and increasing division.

  “It’s good for us to have opportunities to interact with people with whom we disagree, and I think we need more of that in our society, not less.” (31:32, Chen)

• California Proposition 50 & Gerrymandering

  • Media frame the ballot measure as a proxy for Trump, not on its merits.

    “They’ve painted it as: do you like Donald Trump or not.” (32:52, Chen)

  • Arnold Schwarzenegger’s defense of citizen-led redistricting is cited.
  • Concerns that politicians, not citizens, would regain control under Newsom’s proposition.

• Gavin Newsom as National Figure

  • National party vacuum allows Newsom to step forward, especially appealing to Democratic primary voters.

    “Politics abhors a vacuum, and Newsom has stepped into that in a very real way.” (36:13, Chen)

  • Getty: “How can you run for president with the homeless situation, and the fact people are leaving your state?” (37:00)
  • Chen: Recency bias in politics helps, but a campaign should remind voters of Newsom’s full record.

• The Epstein Files: Media Obsession
  Both show little interest, calling attention to media’s fixation on the scandal’s lowest common denominator appeal.

  “It just keeps coming back… like a bad infection.” (38:27, Armstrong)

• Economic Concerns
  Outlook remains uncertain due to division in Washington and persistent inflation, though optimism lingers for improvement next year.

4. Internet Scams: Romance & Phishing

Starts 45:03, picks up again around 46:20

• Armstrong shares a running gag about a romance scam.

  “To my lovely and wonderful angel, Jack…” (47:11, reading scam letter)

  • ChatGPT is suggested for crafting a fake reply, highlighting the surreal and comic aspect of such scams.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It’s going to be more like a slow plea. What we used to call when the evidence is so overwhelming of guilt that the person insists upon having a trial.”
  — Judge Larry Goodman (05:27)

• “Most of them are idiots. But I had … cases where the guy just thought he was smarter than everybody else… A third category is, some of them are just pure evil.”
  — Judge Larry Goodman (14:26)

• “When cameras are in the courtroom, lawyers play to the cameras, get a little more outrageous… It changes the whole dynamics.”
  — Judge Larry Goodman (11:49)

• “People shouldn’t have to feel and think that way in a place like America…”
  — Lanhee Chen (28:55)

• “They’ve painted it as: do you like Donald Trump or not... this is probably the fourth or fifth election cycle in a row where they're gonna run this playbook. And to date, they've been pretty successful with this.”
  — Lanhee Chen (32:52)

• “Politics abhors a vacuum, and Newsom has stepped into that in a very real way.”
  — Lanhee Chen (36:13)

Segment Timestamps

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | News Brief, Case Background, Start of Judge Goodman Interview | 03:00 | | Legal Analysis: Evidence, Trials, Jury Dynamics, “Slow Plea” | 05:27 | | Jury Oddities, Cops & Evidence, Systemic Challenges | 07:30 | | Cameras in Court, Media Effects | 11:42 | | Death Penalty Standards in Utah, Criminal Typology | 13:11 | | Self-Driving Car Safety, Waymo vs. Tesla, Future Tech Implications | 20:18 | | Lanhee Chen Interview: Political Violence, Civil Discourse, Redistricting, National Politics | 28:08 | | California Prop 50, Gerrymandering, Media Framing | 32:47 | | Gavin Newsom’s National Prospects, Voter Memory, Campaigns | 35:57 | | Disinterest in Epstein Scandal, American Media Obsessions | 38:19 | | Economic Outlook, Federal Reserve, Voters’ Concerns | 40:12 | | Romance Spam & Email Scams, ChatGPT Gag | 45:03, 46:20 |

Memorable Moments

• Goodman’s deadpan breakdown of criminal strategy and courtroom theater.
• “Shark eyes” as a descriptor for sociopathic criminals.
• Armstrong reading, with delight, a comically bad scam love letter, illustrating the wild side of modern internet crime.
• Chen’s nuanced analysis of how redistricting, media, and party leadership battles shape actual voting outcomes.
• Armstrong and Getty’s struggle to imagine Newsom’s appeal from “inside California” versus national Democratic punditry.

Summary

This episode delivers a blend of true crime and legal analysis (anchored by Judge Goodman’s unflinching realism), a sharp critique of political manipulation and polarization (Lanhee Chen’s specialty), a skeptical look at technology’s promise and hype (self-driving cars), and classic Armstrong & Getty humor about the absurdities of American life—from spam scams to presidential etiquette. The tone oscillates between grave and irreverent, never losing its knack for quotable bluntness and wry cultural commentary on the state of the nation.