Tim Clark (3:35)

Hey, guys. Great to be back.

Mike Lyons (3:36)

I guess we gotta start with J.D. vance saying in the Wall Street Journal that all options are on the table, including US Troops in Ukraine.

Tim Clark (3:47)

Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do with kind of clean up on aisle five for what the secretary of Defense has said. Pete Hegseth, you know, watching him closely, trying to see if he's getting off to a good start or not. He's not really, frankly, had a very good week. He's trying to implement the intent of this president very clearly. But I think he got out over skis when he talked to those European leaders, to the NATO leaders with regard to Ukraine's borders and all the things that you normally don't see Defense secretary doing. The last guy, basically, Lloyd Austin read quotes off of the DoD website and he never really said anything. I think. I think Pete Hexeth, unfortunately, got out in front of himself a little bit. So now JD Vance comes in behind him and a little bit of a cleanup here to make sure that if we're going to start this negotiation with Russia, that it starts a little different than what Pete said.

Mike Lyons (4:41)

Okay. So we don't usually try to drag you into the politics of things. You're a military expert. But so from an lots of people were saying, including us this week, of why would you take anything off the table immediately in a negotiation? And the secretary of defense did that.

Tim Clark (4:57)

Yeah. And again, I want him to succeed. I think there's lots of positive aspects of what he's done so far. But Defense secretaries usually don't make policy. Those are the things for secretary of State. I'm concerned, actually, that the president is deep in this as well, because he seems to kind of go into these negotiations on one hand, and then if they start going south, he'll figure out a way to separate himself from it. But this is a serious, serious next few days coming on here with what's going on in Ukraine and Russia, and I just hope that we're ready for it. I'm a little bit concerned, for example, that General Kellogg has been somewhat sidelined. They left him on the tarmac or on the Delta Sky Club someplace. I mean, he was supposed to be the one that was involved with this, and he doesn't seem to be involved. You heard the President talk yesterday that he'd spoken to Vladimir Putin. So we're just not sure where this is all going to go and what's exactly going to look like. But again, go back to Secretary of Defense I him to succeed. But I think he's been a little bit adamant over skis the last last few days.

Mike Lyons (5:59)

Well, as far as bringing the war between Ukraine and Russia to a close, even President Zelensky said at some point last year they may not be able to get back all the territory they lost. So he, he's, he's willing to concede that. So say we come up with some sort of deal where you, you and Russia has taken like 20% of the country. Yeah, but, but say, say you call it good here and everything like that. What sort of guarantees can the world offer Ukraine that if you lay down your arms and Russia attacks again, you know, we got your back.

Tim Clark (6:34)

How could that work exactly in 93. We gave them security back then under President Clinton when they gave up their nuclear weapons. And when Russia first went in in 2014, we didn't back it up then. It only works when there are US Troops there on the ground actually working side by side with Ukrainian for. And there should never been any expectation that Ukraine on itself could defeat Russia based on four times its side, its military capability that it has. So it's going to need some kind of NATO alliance, which, again, I don't think we've talked about this before. I still don't believe that Ukraine will ever become part of NATO just because it becomes this tripwire that will exist there. So it's a precarious situation. And then you heard Secretary Hexaf said, well, if you guys do want to get together and Europe should support Ukraine, United States won't be part of that. And, oh, by the way, it won't be covered under Article 5. So. So he kind of muddied the waters with regard to any future security situation that really didn't have to happen. Well, before the negotiation of this potential peace treaty.

Mike Lyons (7:42)

Well, I guess I should flat out ask the question. I haven't yet the news of the day. Is there any chance US Troops end up in Ukraine fighting Russians?

Tim Clark (7:52)

Probably not. Low probability of that. The only way that happens is if somehow there's an attack on a NATO country. I think where Secretary Hegseth is right is Poland being this incredible ally. Poland is amazing NATO ally right now in terms of what they spend money on. And I think you're going to see a brigade U.S. army brigade rotate there. Kind of like what we saw, what we see in Korea. They're going to see a large number of a bigger US Presence inside of Poland that's going to act as that deterrence there. There are some people who believe that Russia won't stop. If they get more of Ukraine and they get more of that landmass, they'll eventually go into the Baltics. But now you're into NATO countries itself. So you see Finland now has joined NATO and so the ring is around them at this point. There's no place else they can go. The narcation line now is clear to the country of Ukraine.

Mike Lyons (8:44)

And for some positive news that has happened with SecDef Pete or because it's Trump. I don't know who gets the credit on this. I remember when we had you on a while back because the army recruiting had hit all time lows. Well in December it hit a 12 year high and in January it hit a 15 year high. And I saw some ads out today that were really, really cool and some video of Pete Hegseth doing push ups with troops and everything like that. You got to be feeling good about the direction that's going.

Tim Clark (9:10)

Yeah, absolutely. And again and Secretary Hexa, Pete Hex said is a real politic guy. He's like whatever the situation is in the world on the ground. He's not an ideologue. He talked about that yesterday when it came down to we need weapons and values in terms of defeating our enemies. But recruiting numbers are lag indicators. And so that tells me that this thing actually started back in November, 60 days ago when the president got elected. So that's the key there. It's not just that people started going to enlistment centers here in January when Trump took over. That's a lag indicator of stuff that happened a few months ago. And I think that's going to be positive going forward. No question he knows President Trump's intent. Lethality, a better fit military, a better fit army in particular. And DEI is being taken out of the military by branch, by root. I could tell you that from experience as I watch These military installations get rid of any aspects of that. Meritocracy has returned. I'm glad to see it and I think you'll see a better military for it.

Mike Lyons (10:11)

Well, I know the Doge guys, Elon and his crew are going to turn their attention toward the Pentagon here soon. Do you think there's plenty of places to look for cutting money in the Pentagon?

Tim Clark (10:24)

Well, likely at the macro level and it's really the defense industrial complex is where that's, that's likely coming from. The question I'm going to have for this administration is looking over the horizon. I don't think, for example, that Trump's idea of an iron dome for the United States makes sense. I do think we, you know, we've got to, we've got to put these in different buckets of land, of sea and space and air. These, these different domains is where focus has got to be with more focus towards probably space and air at this point, as that drone technology becomes. But we're never going to be able to create an iron dome system to protect us. You go back to the 80s, it feels very 1980 right about now too, guys, the military is a good time to be in the military. I think for the next ten years that's going to happen. Well, Reagan had that SDI initiative back then. It was designed really to bankrupt the Soviet Union at the time because we didn't really have that technology either. Well, it would be an unrealistic expectation to think that we're going to protect our homeland from missile defense because the Iron dome technology in and above itself is more or less a tactical close in defense system. And that's something that's going to protect our whole coastline.

Mike Lyons (11:29)

So anyway, interesting, back to Russia, Ukraine, because I'm just looking up on the TV screens and it's a big thing in the news right now. First of all, some of the numbers you look at as we next week will be the three year anniversary of the beginning of this nightmare. Some of the numbers of how many people have died or been injured, whether civilians are from a strictly military standpoint, the number of soldiers taken off the battlefield, particularly on the Russian side, it's just insane.

Tim Clark (12:01)

Yeah. And the fact that they've had to bring mercenaries in from North Korea and they're being killed, it's just, you know, Russia though, because it has the population, it has the resources, they can continue to throw bodies at it and Ukraine can't do that. Which is again, look in history. This is why countries that have greater industrial capabilities win these wars of Attrition, which is why, from Trump's perspective, he just wants it to be over, which is why he'll do anything and concede anything in order for that to happen. But that security, you know, those security agreements have got to go forward or Russia will clearly do this again inside of Ukraine. They'll try to take all of Ukraine at some point, at least while Vladimir Putin is alive.

Mike Lyons (12:43)

So you think Putin hasn't learned a lesson? Damn it, I'm not doing that again. We come to some sort of conclusion here. We draw some lines. You think he would try to take more?

Tim Clark (12:53)

Yeah. And that's because he's not just looking at the US he's looking at Donald Trump's behavior and his willing to negotiate. And he looks at the rest of Europe and says they're still not in the game. Right. The UK, the Germans. The Germans are moving towards deindustrializing. The Germans and the French and the traditional countries that should be stepping up and doing more with regard to defense are not doing it. And the reason why they're not doing it is because they can't afford it either. What are they gonna do? They're gonna go their populations for more money. Part of the reasons that they don't have the military, they can't get to 5% of their GDP is because they don't have the money to do it, the industrial base to do it. And so they're in a real pickle themselves. So I think Putin looks at that. Putin looks at the fact that the United States doesn't want to have any part of it anymore, which is why I think deep down over the horizon, he still would likely, if this agreement is not strong enough, that he'll rearm and refit in the next few years and try it again. He still is on a war footing somewhat inside of Russia, and he has more capability and we haven't pulled all the economic levers. And he still has China, North Korea, Iran, and other countries on his side. So that's why he gets the power he gets from.

Mike Lyons (14:03)

Interesting. Glad we had you on today. It was a perfect day to talk to you. Mike Lyons. You can follow him on Twitter. I do have some big news story breaks at MajMike Lyons. Thanks for your time today, Mike.

Tim Clark (14:14)

Great, guys. Thanks for having me.

Mike Lyons (14:16)

That is interesting that it was the vice president coming out and saying, hey, what Pete Hegseth said the other day. No, let's. Let's start over again. Nothing is off the table. Well, that explains it. Joe was going on about, why would you take these things. Why would you take away any bargaining position before you even start? And I hadn't heard anybody come up with an explanation really for that. Well, it turns out he shouldn't have. And now we're starting at square one, including JD Vance saying it's not off the it's not out of the question to have U.S. troops in Ukraine. I don't think that'll happen, save some real craziness of an attack on a NATO country or something like that. I'm going to tell that Valentine's Day story and we got some other stuff we need to get to, so stick around, please.

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Tim Clark (17:52)

Taco Bell has announced it will offer a wedding package at its Las Vegas Boulevard location that includes an Elvis impersonator. Okay, but is it a real Elvis.

Mike Lyons (18:00)

Impersonator or just a Taco Bell customer.

Lenovo Ad (18:02)

Who died on the toilet?

Mike Lyons (18:07)

Oh, my God. Valentine's Day gets way too much attention, just all the way through. And it's all con conceived by people trying to figure out how to make a doll off of you. It's not actually about romance and love and commitment and all the things that, you know, matter and we care about. Anyway, so to this story, which I've teased a whole bunch of times, and I heard this first time long ago, and I got permission to. To tell the story, but I will be vague. So here we go. Katie, picture all this. This is a cute fourth grade girl, all right, gets a call at home night before Valentine's Day. And dad answers the phone and little boy says, is I need a name? Madison. There's a very generic girl name. Is Madison home? Sure. Who's this? This is Tucker. Madison, Tucker's on the phone for you. For some reason, Madison talks to Tucker and Tucker just says, are you going to be at school tomorrow? It's the night before Valentine's Day. And. And Madison says, yeah. And then they hang up. And then. But dad is not happy that a boy called the house.

Katie (19:18)

Right?

Mike Lyons (19:19)

And. And why is a boy calling the house? And like some real questioning on that. And stay away from boys.

Katie (19:24)

And you're in fourth grade.

Mike Lyons (19:26)

Yeah, and I don't know if I like this and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, she get that plays into the story. You got to keep that in mind. Next day, Valentine's Day, in front of the whole class when they're doing the Valentine's Day, like handing out cards and stuff like that. But Tucker walks up to Madison with bouquet of flowers, a little bear, and a card like full on, I got a crush on You. You're my thing, you know, Child version of I love you.

Katie (19:54)

Okay.

Mike Lyons (19:55)

She takes them, walks over to the trash can in front of the whole class and throws them in the trash can.

Katie (20:02)

Oh, boy.

Mike Lyons (20:05)

He turns red, goes, sits down at his desk, head in hands, and starts sobbing in front of the whole classroom, the teacher, and eventually then all the kids get back in their desks and they're getting back to school. Kid is still sobbing. Everybody knows he's sobbing. Teacher has to go grab the kid, pull him aside and try to talk him down and saying it'll be okay and everything like that. The. The bear, the flowers, and the card stay in the trash can next to the teacher's desk the rest of the day for everyone to see. Gosh. While the kid continues to sob all day long.

Katie (20:41)

Oh, my gosh.

Mike Lyons (20:43)

Oh, this is so bad. I know.

Katie (20:46)

That poor little boy.

Mike Lyons (20:47)

I know it. And you know, being first of all, the first time in your life you ever have the guts to, like, declare, I like you, then you get rejected in public, and then you're crying because you can't control it, and then crying in front of your classmates. Fourth grade is an age where you're, you know, you're really, really self conscious, so you'd be horrified by that and what everybody's thinking of you anyway.

Katie (21:09)

And the debris in the trash can all day in front of the.

Mike Lyons (21:12)

Right. I mentioned this earlier. She. And she had a long, bad, failed marriage. She. If she could change anything in her life, it wouldn't be not marrying that guy. It would be going back to fourth grade and not throwing that little boy's stuff in the trash can because she's been tortured by it her whole life. Partially because the kid goes on to a life of crime and spends 15 years in prison.

Katie (21:34)

15 years.

Mike Lyons (21:35)

15 years in prison. Life a crime. And she's certain that that rejection is what set him off on his life of crime.

Katie (21:42)

Oh, it's totally her fault. Oh, she. She damaged that boy.

Mike Lyons (21:47)

This is a hundred percent true story, by the way. 100% true. When I first heard it, I was like, mouth open as I heard this story.

Katie (21:54)

That's what I am right now. I can't believe this.

Mike Lyons (21:57)

Oh, you threw it in the trash right in front of him. And it was all because she was horrified. Like, if he's not supposed to call my house, I'm not supposed to receive stuff from a boy at school. That's what drove it. Not.

Katie (22:07)

It sounded like a mean girl thing.

Mike Lyons (22:09)

Right? But. Well, that's. But he didn't know any of the backstory.

Katie (22:12)

Either way, it was mean.

Mike Lyons (22:14)

Oh my God.

Katie (22:15)

Oh, she created a criminal on Valentine's Day.

Mike Lyons (22:21)

Oh, so your Valentine's Day is gonna be better than that one. Almost guaranteed.

Katie (22:26)

Giving everybody hope.

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Go to selectquote.com to get your free quote today. That's selectquote.com selectquote.com details on example record@selectquote.com jobs are going to go up and prices could go up somewhat short term.

Tim Clark (25:13)

But prices will also go down.

Mike Lyons (25:14)

See what happens. Nobody really knows what's going to happen other than we know that jobs are.

Tim Clark (25:20)

Going to be produced at levels that.

Mike Lyons (25:21)

We haven't seen before. There's President Trump talking about the whole tariff situation, the economy and ask about inflation and whatever. I was just reading Mark Halpern's newsletter for today, and there are so many big moving pieces happening at the same time. It's impossible for the media to keep up with them. To like, even if you're just trying to be like an honest, fair arbiter of what's happening, it's really hard to wrap your hand around all these different pieces. The, you know, we're gonna take over Gaza, we're gonna, we're gonna force a peace in Ukraine, tariffs on all these different countries, some of our friends, some of our enemies, all the different stuff, the firings, lots of people, lots of people in government getting letters, finding out they're fired today and which I have no problem with. But all this and it's just anyway, trying to wrap your head around it is amazing. Let's bring onto the show Tim Clark. Tim Clark, you might remember we talked to him years ago. Tim Clark was a guy who's an expert in strategic communications and public affairs and government relations. Stuff like that got brought into the Trump campaign back in 2016 when Trump got elected for his first term. Knows a lot about the way Trump operates and the way government operates because he was involved in hhs, was White House liaison to the US Department of Health and Human Services back in the day. Anyway, Tim Clark, welcome back to the Armstrong and Getty Show.

Lenovo Ad (26:45)

Hey, thanks for having me on.

Mike Lyons (26:46)

You bet. You sent me a text yesterday saying, hey, would you like me to come on to talk about RFK jr's confirmation? But before we get to that, just, just in general, your old boss in the way, he's just got so many plates spinning at the same time. What's your observation of everything that's going on in the first, we're not even at a month yet. No.

Lenovo Ad (27:10)

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Tim Clark (27:22)

Quick.

Lenovo Ad (27:23)

It wasn't a, I'll give You this plan in 30 days. It was a. I'll give you this plan in two days. That's just who he is. He demands excellence. And that's going to be a really healthy process for the thing that we call the US Government, which is bloated and costs too much and takes too long to do things and waste a lot of money. And you've got a CEO now that says, I'm going to clean this thing up. And you partner that up with Elon Musk and great things are happening back there right now.

Mike Lyons (27:51)

Yeah. It's interesting to have the expectation of speed. If you've spent your whole life in government, you wouldn't have that expectation because you expect everything to play out over months or many years.

Lenovo Ad (28:04)

That's correct. So I said I was part of the Domestic Policy Council in the executive office of the President. And one day, the head of the Domestic Policy Council, Joe Rogan, or Joe Grogan, pardon me, not Rogan. Grogan, came in and said, the president wants a western lands policy. Okay, good. Well, we'll get the research done. We'll get something done in 30 days. Said, no, no, no, no, no, it's Friday. The president wants him on his desk on Tuesday. Okay, all right, we'll just do it. That's who this president is. He is a no delay. Get it done. Show me the results. Show me excellence. And he honors that. You know, he absolutely honors excellence.

Mike Lyons (28:39)

I remember seeing Newt Gingrich, this was his first term, being interviewed about something. I think it was when Trump had declared that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel. Now, lots of presidents had promised it and talked about it, but nobody ever had the guts to do it. And Newt Gingrich is talking about. But regular president comes in, talks about having Jerusalem be the capital. Capital. A whole bunch of think tanks put together proposals over six months. They make their way through the State Department. The president sees it two years from now, then forms a committee that, no, Trump just announces Jerusalem's capital now.

Lenovo Ad (29:14)

Right?

Mike Lyons (29:14)

Yeah.

Tim Clark (29:15)

He said.

Lenovo Ad (29:18)

Yeah, yes, we have a building there. Okay. That's going to be the embassy next month. Okay.

Mike Lyons (29:23)

Yeah. The move fast and break things, you know, Silicon Valley view of handling things doesn't really bother me that much. But just in general, a lot of people laughed when he actually named RFK Jr. As his nominee. And then a lot of the mainstream media assumed this would get shot down before we'd ever get to a vote or certainly if he got to a vote, he wouldn't get to convert. Confirmed. He is now the Secretary of health. And Human Services. That has happened. What do you think about that?

Lenovo Ad (29:52)

Well, so, first of all, HHS is the biggest agency of government on the planet. It spends 27 cents of every federal dollar 85,000 employees. It's got some of the most storied agencies within it, like National Institutes of Health, nih, cdc, fda. Huge, huge monolith. And as we saw during COVID it just runs at its own, at its own speed. And like a stampede in the case of COVID things came out of it that not a lot of people agreed with, but it just happened. And so I think RFK coming in now, RFK, 71 years old, very healthy guy, believes in health, wants to restore the value of natural immunity and living a healthy lifestyle and things like that. I think it's going to be really, really good medicine for this health agency. I just do.

Mike Lyons (30:45)

Let's get back to just the size of it. Joe and I didn't know this. I remember when we had the. I think you helped us. You probably made it happen for us. We had the Secretary of Health and Human Services on Trump's first term, and I remember Joe saying something we kind of wanted to Secretary of Defense, but we got you. And his response was, well, my budget's a lot bigger than his. And we were like, whoa. Not realizing Health and Human Services is, as you said, the biggest government agency on planet Earth.

Lenovo Ad (31:12)

Just flat out, yeah, $1.7 trillion budget. It's just huge. And, and again, 27 cents of every federal dollar spent goes through HHS.

Mike Lyons (31:24)

What is going to be the main priority of RFK Jr. Do you think?

Lenovo Ad (31:28)

Well, he's got a lot to do. He's, he's already got DOGE on the ground. DOGE is going through Medicaid, Medicare, which are huge programs. And so he's got to figure that out. He's got a staff. Staff is probably wondering what's going to happen. He's got 85,000 staff plus a number of contractors, almost double that when you, when you add in the contractors. Got to figure that out. So on the operational level itself, he's got a big job to do, and then he's got a job to do in restoring the transparency. HHS used to be the gold standard in the world for research and for transparency. And here's what's going on. And again, during COVID a lot of doctors woke up and said, hey, wait a minute, what's happening here? I'm working with a group of doctors right now, the Independent Medical alliance, the IMA, and these are 15,000 doctors who on the front lines during COVID had a sea change in how they felt about HHS and how it operates. And so they've been one of the primary drivers behind RFK and getting them into hhs. Because we need to open the books. We need to see everything. We need to see the VAERS data at CDC and see what's happening with these vaccines.

Mike Lyons (32:33)

Explain that a little more. Why was there a sea change in the way all these doctors saw hhs?

Lenovo Ad (32:38)

Well, so, for example, the head of this group, a guy named Joe Verone, has a hospital down in Houston, and he was administering the COVID vaccine, and he was seeing these side effects. He says, wait a minute, maybe we should slow down a little bit. And HHS came in and just hammered on him and said, no, you either follow the plan or we're going to hurt your practice. And he actually started dispensing Ivermectin and became one of the biggest ivermectin guys in the country during COVID And I talked to Joe, Dr. Verone, who's super accomplished. Look, I was 100% pro vaccine prior to Covid, and now, based on what happened there, I'm still pro vaccine, but I'm pro. Let's find the data and make sure that all these vaccines that we're giving, we give 72 vaccines to infants. Whatever happened when they were only getting 10, how do they ever survive? But now infants get 72 vaccines, and these doctors are saying, wait a minute, let's make sure everything we're doing is healthy and safe. Let's just not run like a stampede off the cliff with some of these things that are taking place.

Mike Lyons (33:37)

That's really interesting. That's really interesting. I'm glad we had you on. Thanks for reaching out. And if we ever are talking about something you know about and you want to weigh in, feel free to text or give us a call. Okay.

Tim Clark (33:49)

Glad to do it.

Lenovo Ad (33:49)

Thank you.

Mike Lyons (33:50)

That's Tim Clark. He was the liaison to the Department of Health and Human Services in Trump's first term and worked on the campaign back in 16. I don't know that a lot of people realize that, that RFK Jr. Is now running the biggest government agency in the entire world. 80,000 employees and just an insanely large budget. But I think everybody's view of HHS changed through Covid. Okay. You're just. Or can be. You can be just as political as anything else, obviously. I guess in retrospect, you can be just as political of every. As everything else around. What we shouldn't shouldn't do or the the pressures to support this or deny that. And more transparency is always the best answer on that, in my opinion. So the story of the little girl breaking the little boy's heart. We're getting a lot of texts about that. I will go through the texts and and bring you the best ones coming up. This little girl is now an adult woman and a very nice person, but she's coming in for a decent kicking on the text line. I don't know whooping. I don't know how this is going to play out. So anywho, we've got that on the way.

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Mike Lyons (37:44)

That's selectquote.com selectquote.com details on example rate@selectquote.com It's Valentine's Day. The day after Galentine's Day. I sent a radio colleague a text saying, are you and your friends celebrating Galentine's Day? And the person said, I am so horrified that I now have that phrase in my phone gonna say, did she.

Katie (38:10)

Reach through the phone and smack you?

Mike Lyons (38:14)

But it's Valentine's Day today, and I told a story earlier this hour. It's funny, it got several texts saying, that's obviously exaggerated or this sounds made up. It is 100% true.

Katie (38:29)

I believe it.

Mike Lyons (38:30)

It's awful. Very quick version. Boy, like, really goes all out fourth grade for their Valentine's Day card exchanges, the way we used to do them back in the old days when they were allowing people to hurt each other's feelings. Anyway, boy shows up with a little teddy bear, flowers card, the whole thing for girl. She throws him in the trash in front of the whole class because her dad had told her to stay away from boys. So. But anyway, he's crushed and cries the rest of the day. He ends up going to prison as a lifelong criminal. She believes that that's the reason, which, I don't know, you can connect those two dots, but it probably didn't.

Katie (39:07)

Yes, you can.

Mike Lyons (39:10)

Okay, we got some texts about that. I was one of those unpopular, not cute girls that got hardly any Valentine's or skunk cards. You probably are too young for this, Katie. I can't believe this is true, but when I was a kid, if you bought a pack of Valentine's Day cards, it came with two skunk cards that everybody gave to the. Using my finger quotes, ugly girls, which is just horrible. But you know how kids are.

Katie (39:38)

And I am too young for that. That's unbelievable.

Mike Lyons (39:41)

It's. It's beyond I believing that it actually went on and teachers didn't intervene. And so the girls that were either awkward or not cute or shy or whatever. Would get 50 skunk cards like. Like the day was designed to have. Oh, by the way, in case you're feeling awkward, here's a written document to show that all the boys in this class feel this way about you. Have a nice life. I mean, it is as cruel as anything could possibly be. I can't believe it existed.

Katie (40:11)

My jaw is on the floor.

Mike Lyons (40:13)

Really? You didn't know about this?

Katie (40:15)

I've never heard of this in my life.

Mike Lyons (40:16)

I did this first through whenever we stopped sixth grade or something like that every year. And we thought it was so funny. The girls that got the skunk cartoon cards. Anyway, here. This person's texting. I was one of those unpopular, not cute girls that got hardly any Valentine's or I got the skunk cards. I still. She writes in all caps. Remember the feeling of disappointment and embarrassment when my family was excited for me when opening them at home and I got skunk cards. That is as heartbreaking as anything could be.

Katie (40:44)

That's evil.

Mike Lyons (40:45)

I might have kept my kid home from school. Of course, I might have made it worse, but geez, that it is evil. What the hell? Some of the things that we come up with. Why are we introducing love and romance to second graders in the first place?

Katie (40:59)

Let's start there.

Mike Lyons (41:00)

Yeah, let it. Let it unfold naturally on its own because it's. It happens at different ages for different people, different levels of maturity. And then forcing the whole, you need to declare who you like. Let's declare who's popular and who's unpopular. Everybody. Let's make it even. It's.

Katie (41:16)

I can't believe it's already awkward and out of place. Let's give him a skunk card.

Mike Lyons (41:21)

I was a boy and I dreaded Valentine's Day every year. I can't imagine being in, you know, anybody but the, like, three most popular girls. Everybody else in the class had to hate it. Awful. Yep.

Katie (41:35)

And we had the same thing in our class where we made the little mailbox and people would put stuff in there, and it. It was a four. It gave me a form of anxiety sitting there because you go, you know, am I gonna get anything? I don't know. Because I was an awkward kid, man.

Mike Lyons (41:50)

My son gave a girl and I like you note in the fourth grade, and the girl read it in front of the whole class and laughed at him.

Katie (41:58)

Dude, kids are brutal.

Mike Lyons (41:59)

I hate this girl to that day, says this parent. I think the person that actually is involved in this story might be listening. But I'm reading this text. That fourth grade girl no Doubt turned out to be a horrible grown up. That is behavior that is innate, not learned.

Tim Clark (42:18)

So sad.

Mike Lyons (42:19)

Oh, boy. Yes. Michael, do you think she panicked?

Katie (42:24)

I'm picturing a little girl that maybe was afraid. So afraid of her dad that she threw it.

Mike Lyons (42:29)

Absolutely. And he's a good dad. It's just emotionally, just new. I'm not supposed to do this. I'm not supposed to be interacting with boys. And that's exactly what happened. She panicked and threw the stuff in the trash can. Fan. Yeah.

Katie (42:38)

It just played out in the worst scenario possible.

Mike Lyons (42:41)

Oh, God. When I picture that little fourth grade boy sitting there crying in front of the class.

Katie (42:46)

Oh, it crushes me.

Mike Lyons (42:47)

It is rough. This text. A different opinion. His parents should never have allowed him to put that little girl on the spot.

Katie (42:54)

Yeah, actually that's a great because, I mean, he didn't buy that stuff himself.

Mike Lyons (42:58)

No, that's a tough one because my son laid it all on the line. And it's about fourth grade. It wasn't for Valentine's Day, but it was just a. He had a crush on a girl and he decided he was going to write her a note about how much he liked her and everything like that. And he talked to me about it and I just, you know, I told him, you know, you always have to realize the possibility that she might not like you too, to try to, you know, prepare for what eventually happened. But I thought it's just, you know, it's part of the growing up experience. You're going to do it at some point. But he did that and got fairly rejected and other kids found out about it and it was embarrassing and he hasn't done it since. And I, I don't know.

Katie (43:38)

Yeah, I, I, I had a situation when I was in. Oh, gosh, my mom's gonna correct me on this. I think it was first grade where on Valentine's Day, a kid in our class gave me a very small picture frame with his picture in it. And I didn't know what, I didn't know what to do with it. So I, you know, thank you and took it home. And like the next day, I guess I didn't talk to him at all or whatever. And.

Tim Clark (44:01)

Right.

Katie (44:02)

He's gay now. So.

Mike Lyons (44:07)

Life is hard. Childhood is so hard. Adulthood is hard without all this crap. Yeah, it'd be nice if the Hallmark company or See's Candy didn't add to the pretending that all you care about is love and people coming together and not just you. Make a lot more money this time. I'll get to some more of those texts a little bit later on that topic. It's just. It's rough. We got this text, kind of funny. Funniest Valentine's Day ad I heard on the radio the other day was a line of floral bouquets. I haven't heard this called the How Mad is she? Floral bouquet. And you can choose different kinds. There's the silent treatment mad, which is daffodils and daisies passive aggressive mad, which is two dozen roses slam the door mad, which is which is a different kind of flowers peel out of the driveway mad. You never help with housework mad different flowers for the different scenario.

Katie (45:06)

Oh, that's nice.

Mike Lyons (45:07)

There you go. It is nice. Whenever Joe is gone or I am gone, we almost always bring on Tim Sandifer. Tim the lawyer, who's fan favorite. If you've never heard him before, stick around because everybody always likes Tim and wishes he'd come on more often. He had a heck of an interesting text today, or a tweet rather, that I want to ask him about, among other things in hour three. If you missed that, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand.

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