My Eyes Are Glazin'

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: My Eyes Are Glazin'
Date: February 19, 2026
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty

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Episode Overview

In "My Eyes Are Glazin'," Armstrong & Getty unpack the latest news on the Prince Andrew/Epstein files, the rapid evolution and social upheaval posed by artificial intelligence, the high-stakes trials facing social media giants, and poke fun at the quirks of modern society—lawsuits over chicken wings, Olympic dogs, and the ever-declining influence of cable news. With their trademark sharp wit, skepticism, and relatable banter, Jack and Joe weave expert commentary and on-the-ground reporting into a lively episode rich with both headline insight and cultural commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Prince Andrew & the Epstein Fallout

• [02:00 - 03:15]
  The episode opens with news of Prince Andrew's alleged arrest on his birthday, stemming from the latest Jeffrey Epstein files. Armstrong compares it to nailing Al Capone on lesser charges when the real crimes are harder to prosecute.

  • Quote [02:26 | Jack]:
    "I've heard it described as like they got Al Capone for tax evasion... Everybody assumes that he was sexing up underage girls, but proving it enough to actually charge it with something... they are able to prove that he was giving away information he shouldn't share, which by definition is a state secret to an American billionaire, which ain't cool."

  • Getty suggests it feels like a "we'll get you for something" charge, noting the severe penalties facing Andrew but asserts they won't linger on the topic.

• [03:15 - 04:10]
  The hosts reflect on the ongoing fascination with the Epstein saga, calling it a glimpse into elite circles and their lack of accountability. They segue into pondering the dullness of traditional economics education and their personal experiences with it.

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2. The Head-Spinning Pace of AI Change

• [06:20 - 12:00]
  Armstrong & Getty analyze Matt Schumer's viral essay "Something Big is Happening" about the disruptive rise of AI, sharing reactions from key thinkers:

  • Noah Smith: Praises the essay for alerting people to rapidly accelerating AI capabilities.

  • Gary Marcus: Warns against AI "hype," noting coding is a uniquely automatable task and it's misleading to generalize from it.

  • Tyler Cowen: Compares the current AI hysteria to the early COVID-19 days—change will take longer than many expect due to regulatory bottlenecks (e.g., new drugs still need years of FDA trials).

  • Andrew Yang: Doubles down on his "doomer" view—arguing the social contract is about to "be vaporized" and upward mobility will vanish for most.

    • Quote [09:28 | Joe Getty, citing Yang]: "The social contract of study hard, go to school, get a good job, live a decent life is about to be vaporized. Upward mobility for most will be a thing of the past."

  • London School of Economics Professor: AI will change the world, but most white-collar jobs are too "messy" to be fully automated. Automating tasks isn't the same as automating entire jobs.

  • Jack questions whether a future of universal basic income, endless leisure, and video games is utopian or tragic ("What percentage of people would say, 'sign me the hell up?'"), to which Joe admits many would actually welcome that tradeoff, despite the risk of societal malaise and lack of purpose.

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3. Social Media & Society: The Great Trial

• [21:19 - 32:00]

  Key Focus: Mark Zuckerberg on the Stand

  • The episode features CBS tech expert Ian Chernis, reporting on Zuckerberg's trial (Facebook/Instagram defending itself from accusations of harming kids through addictive design).

    • Age Verification Issues [21:19 | Jack]:
      "There is no way to currently really verify age... Does parenting play a role at all?"

    • Zuckerberg's Defense [22:07 | Ian Chernis]:
      "His angle was very much about trying to look reasonable... trying to show that there's a good faith effort happening here."

    • Internal Contradictions [25:57 | Jack]:
      "Zuckerberg got up there yesterday and... saying that they 'are not trying to maximize the amount of time people spend every month on Instagram.' That just seems like an obvious lie to me."

    • Addiction Argument [24:27 | Joe Getty]:
      "Did they get into at all the very murky question of what is addiction versus what is, 'this is really fun, I want to do it some more'?"

    • Chernis stresses the critical nature of internal company documents in these trials, as these often reveal more than prepared executive testimony.

  Larger Themes

  • Armstrong & Getty express skepticism at class action lawsuits blaming social media for kids' woes, parrying the blame between corporate responsibility and parenting.
    • [29:55 | Jack Armstrong]:
      "I feel like everybody intuitively knows that this is just bad. We're spending too much time on it. This isn't doing my life any good, but I keep doing it anyway, and I can't stop, which is the definition of an addiction, really."
    • They worry a not-guilty verdict could send the wrong public message about the known harms of compulsive social media use.

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4. Society's Oddities: Lawsuits, Markets & More

• Bizarre Lawsuits [15:23 - 16:16]:

  • A frivolous Illinois lawsuit against Buffalo Wild Wings for "misleading" boneless wings triggers jokes about America's lawsuit culture.
    • Quote [15:55 | Joe Getty]: "That guy seriously ought to be jailed or something. Or I don't — the lawyers, everybody involved should be jailed."

• Stock Market Puzzles [16:48 - 18:30]:

  • Joe comments on the oddity of only half of market sectors surging while the rest lag, yet the market overall looks stable—remarking that this is historically rare and reminiscent of prior financial shocks.

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5. Royal Trivia & Public Perception

• [18:46 - 19:49]
  • The hosts joke about Prince Andrew's jail location ("Tower of London"), then try (and mostly fail) to trace the royal family lineage, with both hosts' "eyes glazing" at the complexity—a callback to the episode title.

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6. Cable News Ratings: Fox Dominates

• [37:50 - 39:58]
  • Breaking down the latest cable news ratings:
    • Fox News clinches all top 17 slots, with MSNBC's highest show at #18 and CNN at a distant #34.
    • The hosts reflect on the shrinking viewership and relevance of cable news, observing the general public's disinterest, especially in CNN.
      • Quote [39:42 | Joe Getty]: "They are the 78 rpm record of cable news. I'm aware of its existence and it was a quaint old thing, but yeah, who'd watch that?"

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I've heard it described as like they got Al Capone for tax evasion..."
  — Jack Armstrong, [02:26], on how Prince Andrew was finally nailed for a lesser, but provable, crime.

• "The social contract... is about to be vaporized. Upward mobility for most will be a thing of the past."
  — Joe Getty (paraphrasing Andrew Yang), [09:28]

• "I want those people to be right. I want to be hilariously wrong and embarrassed about it for the rest of my life, but that's not the direction I actually lean."
  — Jack Armstrong, [07:57], on hoping AI skeptics are correct.

• "We are not trying to maximize the amount of time people spend every month on Instagram. That just seems like an obvious lie to me."
  — Jack Armstrong, [25:57]

• "That guy seriously ought to be jailed or something... Or the lawyers, everybody involved should be jailed."
  — Joe Getty, [15:55], on the boneless wings lawsuit.

• "They are the 78 rpm record of cable news. I'm aware of its existence and it was a quaint old thing, but..."
  — Joe Getty, [39:42]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:00: Prince Andrew arrested; parallels to Al Capone.
• 06:20: AI’s rapid impact—summary and expert takes.
• 09:28: Andrew Yang’s "The social contract will be vaporized" warning.
• 21:19 - 32:00: Zuckerberg's trial, parent responsibility vs. corporate accountability, and the meaning of addiction.
• 15:23: Boneless wings lawsuit segment.
• 16:48: Discussion of a confounding stock market divide.
• 37:50: Breakdown of latest cable news ratings and public relevance.

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Tone & Style

Playfully skeptical, conversational, and analytical, the hosts keep things lively and irreverent, mixing cultural critique with genuine concern about societal trends. Expert guests and real reporting are blended seamlessly with humor, personal anecdotes, and candid hot takes.

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Summary Takeaway

Armstrong & Getty serve up a brisk, sometimes sardonic survey of the week's oddest headlines—where royalty, robots, and relentless algorithms collide with the realities of human behavior. Despite the eye-glazing complexity and absurdity of modern life, the duo keep it accessible, questioning, and fun for their dedicated audience.

Transcript

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Joe Getty]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio

[Jack Armstrong]

Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center,

[Announcer]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Ian Chernis]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Announcer]

The latest Epstein files released by the Justice Department appeared to show the former prince sending sensitive information to Epstein. Misconduct in a public office refers to, quote, serious willful abuse or neglect of powers relating to the role. The former prince has denied any wrongdoing involving his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted sex offender and and right now he has not been charged with a crime.

[Jack Armstrong]

I heard it described as if you haven't heard the headline, Prince Andrew was actually arrested. He's under arrest and it's his 60th birthday. Happy birthday. Here's some shiny handcuffs for you. I've heard it described as like they got Al Capone for tax evasion. It was hard to nail him. All kinds of crimes they knew he was committing that they got him for tax evasion is hard to nail. Prince Andrew. Everybody assumes that he was sexing up underage girls, but proven it enough to actually charge it with something. But they are able to prove that he was giving away information he shouldn't share, which by definition is a state Secret to an American billionaire which ain't cool.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. I've got to admit that charge sounds a little like. Yeah, we don't know what you've done, but we'll figure something out.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Malfeasance in office. Yeah. Severe penalties too. Old Prince Andy might be. Well, former Prince Andy might be going to the clink, but we're not going to dwell on this. There are much more important stories to talk about, but yeah, it's shocking. There are a couple other Epstein fallout things. In spite of myself, I can't help but be at least somewhat interested in them because it is a glimpse into the high flying, utterly unaccountable elite and their lifestyle. Anyway, a couple of somewhat economic related stories and one of the people I'm going to be quoting is a professor from the London School of Economics, where I wish I had gone for a couple of reasons, mostly that Mick Jagger went there. But it's funny, I was thinking back to my education and I had the equivalent of my minor in economics and it was just dreadful. It was horrifyingly dull and tedious and just the memorizing of formulas and that sort of thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is that why they call it the dismal science?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that and just nobody can prove anything.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's all. Yeah. I remember asking a graduate student economics once, I said, how's it going? He said, it's all theory, Jack. It's all theory.

[Joe Getty]

Anyway, I wish I'd run into behavioral economics.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that is some of the modern stuff. I didn't even know that existed. I didn't even know that was in under the umbrella of economics until like the Freakonomics people came along and that sort of stuff. All of that is fascinating.

[Joe Getty]

It might be my favorite thing to think about and read about and just there wasn't a sniff at, by the way, the University of Illinois. And I'm not donating a cent to you idiots anyway, so quit bugging me.

[Jack Armstrong]

You sound like John Mulaney. He always does that routine about college wanting more money. We had an agreement. I gave you money, you gave me an education and it's over. Right?

[Joe Getty]

Right. You know what? It's funny, a tangent on a tangent, but I've often said making history dull is an astounding achievement. I mean, you've got to work hard and show real creativity to make history dull. And yet teachers and professors do constant. And economics, I think, is the same. It reminds me my sister, God bless her, and my dad are on a cruise of some of the beautiful parts of the southeastern United States. And it's nice that my sister's going along with my dad.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Joe Getty]

There are a lot of pirates piracy in that area.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God.

[Joe Getty]

And they went to a talk on pirates and the guy was dull as me trying to memorize economics equations. How can you make pirates dull?

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow, that's a talent.

[Joe Getty]

God. Yeah. I haven't walked the plank. Literally say, hey, look, this is crazy, but we're gonna do this. Hahaha. No, we're not kidding. Anyway, where was I? Ah, yes. So the piece in the Free Press is responding to the viral essay that Jack, you brought us from Matt Schumer titled Something Big is Happening that got

[Jack Armstrong]

a lot of attention.

[Joe Getty]

You want to characterize it real briefly.

[Jack Armstrong]

The way he wrote it is he is a, he's an entrepreneur that has been in the world of AI for quite a few years, a bunch of different startups. And he said he was writing this to alert his friends and family who are asking him about AI. You know, this is a big a deal, as everybody says it is. He was saying it is. Trust us, those of us on the inside, it is a big deal. We're losing our jobs like left and right, and it's coming to you next.

[Joe Getty]

And the point that really grabbed me was he said not only are this year's systems make last year's systems look hilarious, this month's systems make last month's look primitive.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oof.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, oof is right. So anyway, this is all. They talked to a bunch of thinkers for their reaction to this. And I'm just gonna hit you with the very broad outlines. Noah Smith, who is a writer about technology and thinker and stuff like that, his response is people needed to hear this warning. It alerted a lot of people to the incredibly rapid progress being made in AI enabled coding, and it's here, the fear is valid. Okay, next person. Gary Marcus, similar background. AI is big. So is the hype. Schumer's essay is a masterpiece of hype, written in the style of the old direct marketing campaigns with bold faced callouts like, I know this is real because it happened to me first and I am no longer needed for the actual technical work of my job. It's chock full of singularity vibes. Schumer just says, he just tells an AI I want to build this app and it writes thousands of lines of code, allegedly near perfect. What's missing from the discussion is data, blah, blah, blah. He's a skeptic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I, I'm a doomer. I want those People to be right. I want to be hilariously wrong and embarrassed about it for the rest of my life, but that's not the direction I actually lean.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. His take is that coding is such a narrow question and so obviously suited to a computer that it's. You can't extrapolate from there. Anyway. He's a professor in neural, professor of psychology and neuroscience. Founder of a couple companies.

[Jack Armstrong]

Tyler Cowen, the piece we're talking about, he opened with comparing it to the beginning of COVID when everybody's like, is this really gonna happen? All this stuff they're talking about? And I remember the first time I heard Scott Gottlieb on one of the Sunday shows say, somebody's got to have the guts to shut down a city and say everything is shut down. I thought, what? Shut down a city? What are you talking about? That's impossible. And like, a week later, every city in America was shut down.

[Joe Getty]

Well, you were right. And it should have been impossible, but we won't re litigate that. Tyler Cowan says progress will be slower than people think. Strong artificial intelligence is going to change all of our lives and also our jobs. But progress, Some would say regress would be much slower than many people think. Artificial intelligence can invent all sorts of new drugs or at least come up with a new drug idea. True, but FDA approval can take 10 years. And furthermore, a system of clinical trials is expensive and time consuming. You think lawyers are going out of business? No, not top quality ones. White collar employment not going away anytime soon. So he's a skeptic, too. Andrew Yang, Remember him? The social contract will be vaporized.

[Jack Armstrong]

Whoa.

[Joe Getty]

Back to the doomers.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I don't.

[Joe Getty]

AI is coming. It's going to wipe out millions of jobs. He said three years ago, running for office. What do you call the people that are the opposite?

[Jack Armstrong]

The doomers. There's a name for that. But that saying, top quality lawyers will still be needed. Okay, that's a bit of a hedge to me. Okay, there's gazillions of lawyers. What percentage are going to continue to be employed?

[Joe Getty]

That's. That's a.

[Jack Armstrong]

Not a minor deal.

[Joe Getty]

The Yanger says things. These changes are happening faster than we thought. Do you sit at a desk and look at a computer much of the day? Take this very seriously. The social contract of study hard, go to school, get a good job, live a decent life is about to be vaporized. Upward mobility for most will be a thing of the past.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, my.

[Joe Getty]

People are not going to take it well.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, my God, I hope he's wrong.

[Joe Getty]

And finally, not finally, Eric Markowitz. We must be more than our tools. He gets a very human about it and blah, blah, blah. And then the professor I mentioned, London School of Economics. I believe AI is a huge deal and will radically change the world. But the world, and by extension many white collar jobs is messy. Automating the automatable tasks within them is not near to automating the job. And he goes into an example with housing and all the challenges of housing in London. And I won't bore you with the details, but does anyone think AI will fix this?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, so I think a life of leisure and lack of purpose is, is tragic, but that's just me. What if the average person, especially young people, you tell them, look universal beyond basic income. You're gonna have, you're not gonna have a giant house, but you're gonna have a decent sized place. You're gonna have food and health care and you can smoke pot, drink beer, play video games all day the rest of your life. What percentage of people would say, sign me the hell up?

[Joe Getty]

A lot. A lot. Probably the majority. A lot.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think it's tragic, but that's what the, you know, a little distance from my youth. And even in my youth I wouldn't have wanted that. But.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, but then they will find themselves miserable.

[Jack Armstrong]

But I agree, I agree.

[Joe Getty]

You know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I don't think that sounds. My point is, I don't think that sounds like a horror to a large, large portion of society.

[Joe Getty]

No.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I'm gonna play golf every day and not have to go into work and listen to my boss. Okay. Why am I upset about this? Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Except you won't be able to get a tea time.

[Jack Armstrong]

We'll have to. The AI will have to build more

[Joe Getty]

golf courses, get busy. What was I gonna say? Final thought. Oh, lately when a question like you opposed comes up, I think what is the percentage of Americans who went out of nowhere were told, see that man? That's a woman. Say it's a woman. And they said it's a woman. That's the percentage. The percentage who don't have the confidence to think for themselves, to call out lies when they hear them. They just want to go along to get along. That's a pretty high percentage.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't think that's one of the

[Joe Getty]

reasons the founding fathers designed the system the way they did, because the majority of people don't yearn for freedom.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't think I've seen any polling on this, but I'd love to present it as you're not going to have

[Ian Chernis]

to work

[Joe Getty]

at all.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know how you would lay it out as a question. I got to believe it's a majority of people would say, sign me the hell up.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

A lot of people going to a job today they don't like would love to be able to say, the hell with you. I'm gonna do whatever I want today. It's a nice day. I'm gonna play golf. It's a rainy day. I'm gonna stay inside and, you know, on Xbox One.

[Joe Getty]

More caveat. Those of you who, especially in a place like California, where if you'd have said anything about that man is a man, you'd have lost your career or, or, you know, whatever, I give you a pass. I wish you'd have spoken out, but I get why you didn't. Because if you don't live in a very, very blue place, you have no idea how totalitarian the progressive point of view is in a lot of workplaces, especially schools and government offices.

[Jack Armstrong]

And social pressure isn't something to be scoffed at. You don't want to be a pariah in your neighborhood, your school, your workplace.

[Joe Getty]

Right. See, I am so I don't have as much sympathy. But most people. You're right. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're going to talk to a report about the social media trial yesterday. Zuckerberg was on the stand. Find out where that is and a lot of other news on the way. Stay here.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Ian Chernis]

A man in Illinois had sued Buffalo Wild Wings claiming that his order of boneless chicken wings were not actually deboned wings but were instead chicken breasts assembled to look like a wing. Buffalo Wild Wings admitted it's true, posting our boneless wings are all white meat chicken adding the hamburgers contain no ham and the buffalo wings are 0% buffalo. So was this man deceived? The judge ruled and he said no it need not. In that 10 page ruling he said the man's claim had quote, no meat on its bones.

[Joe Getty]

Wow, kudos to the judge.

[Jack Armstrong]

And went on to say that you can shape cauliflower like wings and call that vegetarian buffalo wings.

[Joe Getty]

Right. They're neither wings or nor buffalo, which I understand is a reference to the city.

[Jack Armstrong]

How did that get far enough to even have a judge look at it?

[Joe Getty]

I it's a measure of how crazy we've gotten as a society with the the you know, lawsuit mania. Oh we need tort reform so bad. That guy seriously ought to be jailed or something. Or I don't the lawyers, everybody involved should be jailed.

[Jack Armstrong]

Speaking of lawsuits, multi billion dollar lawsuits possibly with many many cases across the country against the big social media platforms, Mark Zuckerberg was on the stand yesterday defending Facebook and Instagram specifically. And we'll have a reporter on that coming up next segment.

[Joe Getty]

So we were talking about AI last segment and I was going to say in a related story but we ran out of time. So now in a related story, what to make of this weird stock market. And the long and short of this is it's extremely unusual that you have three of the big six or so sectors way up and three of them pretty down. But the market itself is stable. It doesn't happen.

[Jack Armstrong]

Have you looked at your 401k lately?

[Joe Getty]

I almost don't wanna.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's really high.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, it is, it is. But so you've got energy, materials and construction staples and I won't bother describing what's in them. Who cares. Way, way, way, way up. But technology, consumer discretionary goods and financials are all down. And yet the market has been just growing slowly to record heights but is pretty stable right now. And there have only been a couple other times you've seen that sort of diverg and a fairly stable market. And that was would you like to guess, you know, right after the or just at the beginning of COVID or the mid-90s just before the Silicon Valley banks collapse that prompted a global banking federal rescues before that was during the global financial crisis of 2008, 2009, et cetera. So the market is very, very strange. Well don't get me started about options.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't suppose there's a lot I can do about it. Buy the dip.

[Joe Getty]

You could buy the dip. Coming up, AOC calls reporters and tries to cover up her embarrassing performance in Munich. Continuing live coverage of Prince Andrew in jail.

[Jack Armstrong]

Nobody knows where he is, where they're holding him. I don't know why they're keeping that a secret today.

[Joe Getty]

Tower of London. I'm telling you, I was just there. Yeah, probably down in the basement. Got him on the rack.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the Windsor Mountbatten's, are they blood relatives to any of the famous royal families of the past? Like is Henry VIII his great great grandpa or anything like that? Or is that because he had your tutors, you had your. Yeah, Stewart's. I don't know where the Windsor Mountbatten came in.

[Joe Getty]

I don't, I don't know. I don't remember. I think probably somebody told me in Britain, but man, tour guides are crazy into the, the whole line of kings and stuff. And I got to admit, once you get past James V and Elizabeth the 14th, my eyes are glazing like I'm not going to remember any of this.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't feel like Zuckerberg and did himself any favors on the stand yesterday. I'm surprised by their legal angle. They're taking in their defense. But, but we'll bring you up to speed on that whole case because it could be a big, big deal for everything.

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[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, we're going to have to come up with something for that. I mean, and that's not Mark Zuckerberg's fault. There is no way to currently really verify age. And then you got the whole parent angle of. We talked about this yesterday, this particular plaintiff who was spending many, many hours looking at a screen at a very young age. And does parenting play a role at all?

[Joe Getty]

However this all comes out, it's of enormous significance, I think, to modern society. And Ian Scher, who's CBS News radio tech expert these days, has spent his career writing for all sorts of great publications about tech and social media and that sort of thing. He's covering the trial as well and joins us now. Ian, how are you?

[Ian Chernis]

I'm doing all right. How are you?

[Jack Armstrong]

Terrific, thanks. How was Zuckerberg on the stand yesterday defending himself, and what was his angle?

[Ian Chernis]

You know, his angle was very much about trying to look reasonable. Right. A lot of what he said was to, you know, and remember he's in front of a jury was that, you know, he constantly is trying to make sure that he does right by people. He was talking about how it used to be that they had metrics for engagement inside the company, and he's backed off a lot of that and even stuff like, you know, that they've tried to keep younger kids off the platform and, you know, essentially trying to show that there's good faith effort happening here. Of course, there's a lot of criticism in the other direction about that, including the fact that his own company has done a lot of research over the years that's come out through whistleblowers and others that shows that they were aware that its apps and its services were having a negative impact on children and teenagers in particular, and yet they continued to release those apps and they continued to build features that were popular with young people.

[Jack Armstrong]

First of all, was that it for Zuckerberg or is he on the stand again today or for more days?

[Ian Chernis]

So he should be on the stand again today? The. I think the big question will be exactly of what else he says. It's, you know, compare him to one of his lieutenants, who Adam Mosri, who runs Instagram. He was on the stand earlier this week, and he made a little bit of a headline because he said, you know, he believes he does not believe that Instagram can create a clinical addiction. And when the. When the. When the lawyers asked him, what do you mean by that? He said, well, I'm not actually a doctor. I can't say it's clinical. And of course, he's the one who. Who makes money when Instagram does well. So I think on some level, Zuckerberg is trying to avoid saying anything that's going to upset anyone, which is kind of his M.O. he's been very clear about the fact that he doesn't handle public situations very well.

[Joe Getty]

I didn't know that. I was just about to ask, did they get into at all the very murky question of what is addiction versus what is. This is really fun. I want to do it some more with Zuckerberg.

[Ian Chernis]

You know, I think it'll be interesting to see. So one of the unfortunate parts of the way that a lot of these trials happen is that there is not a live audio feed that's public. And it's, you know, often a lot of. A lot of courts still have rules against recording what's said inside the courtroom, even though it's public record. So it's really frustrating because we don't know everything. But one of the kind of interesting aspect of this conversation has been, what does addiction mean? And if you think about the tobacco industry and what they went through several decades ago, part of the key there was not just what is addiction like, There is a physical element to that that we can talk about, brain chemistry and all that, but there's also the responsibility of knowing the impact your product has, and then what do you do about it afterward. And we do know that Zuckerberg knew the impact that his product was having. The question is, did he do and act responsibly? And I think that is more what the lawyers are after.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I think the most important thing you've said in this report was, like, your first sentence, that this is in front of a jury, because it's about what a jury thinks, not what is necessarily accurately right or wrong. And I thought it was interesting that Zuckerberg got up there yesterday, and I'm reading for some of the reporting of what he said. And like you just said, there's not an actual transcript, but Zuckerberg saying that they, quote, not are not trying to maximize the amount of time people spend every month on Instagram. That just seems like an obvious lie to me.

[Ian Chernis]

So, you know, I think that the way that he avoids, you know, perjury and getting in trouble over that is that, you know, the argument he makes, and this came out with some of the other reporting around that sentence. Right. Is that the context of that statement was that he believes that if people find it useful, then they will keep coming back. And so, you know, whether or not you, you can say, well, cynically, you know, he's just trying to make himself sleep better at night. He believes that if you're enjoying it, then you're going to come back versus trying to trick you into always coming back as much as possible.

[Joe Getty]

Ian Share CBS News Radio Tech expert is online. Ian, any other witnesses in particular we ought to be looking forward to hearing from?

[Ian Chernis]

Well, we're definitely going to be seeing more from all these companies. The witnesses themselves are interesting. And of course, getting Zuckerberg on the stand is enough to get us all talking about it. I think what's going to be very meaningful is the data and the documents that come out of these companies. Having followed Apple and Samsung and some of the other major trials, you know, what the, what the executives say on the stand is kind of rehearsed. Right. And it's often very polished. But their internal communications is really where we get a lot of the meat of conversation and where honestly where a lot of lawmakers end up making choices about what they want to do in terms of regulation. So, you know, I'm going to be really keeping an eye on what these exhibits and evidence are coming out over the next couple of weeks.

[Joe Getty]

Well, can't wait to check in with you again, Ian Chernis of CBS News. Ian, great job. Good to talk to you. Thanks.

[Ian Chernis]

Absolutely.

[Jack Armstrong]

And my point also, though, is I think it's ridiculous for Mark Zuckerberg to stand up there and, or sit there and say, we are not trying to maximize the amount of time people spend every month on Instagram. That's hilariously.

[Joe Getty]

It really is.

[Jack Armstrong]

But that's not a crime. The restaurant's trying to get you to come back. We're trying to get you to stay tuned to the next segment. I mean, just every Ford hopes you'll buy Fords for the rest of your life. Pepsi wants you to stay a Pepsi person. I mean, it's just come on again.

[Joe Getty]

I wish this weren't being tried in the court of court. It's not about criminal liability. It's about, oh, these companies are insidious and their products do bad things to your brain and your life. That just that people need to know that. And then, you know, they have agency, they can guide their own lives because it's going to be extremely difficult to make the case I think that it's. It's what the plaintiffs say it is. That this young woman who had terrible parenting and it was just streaming videos 12 hours a day till her eyes went googly from age 6 on. Are you kidding me? Of course she screwed up.

[Jack Armstrong]

And they've got documents that she had mental, emotional problems prior to getting online. So she's a troubled kid.

[Joe Getty]

Anyway, I'm afraid for the drive by media and the drive by news consumer that when the plaintiffs fail, the defendants prevail. People say, oh, okay, so I guess it isn't addictive and it's actually good for me. And I'm gonna do scroll for the rest of my miserable life.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think we all. Well, maybe. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about this. I was about to say. And then you can contradict me. I was about to say, we all intuitively know that this stuff is bad for us. Maybe, maybe everybody doesn't. But I feel like everybody intuitively knows that this is just bad. We're spending too much time on it. This isn't doing my life any good, but I keep doing it anyway, and I can't stop, which is the definition of an addiction, really. But how the hell would you outlaw it and not get into all kinds of other things like potato chips or booze or whatever?

[Joe Getty]

I will not contradict you. I think you're. You're right. Except that I think a lot of people are lacking in that intuition. You would need to know it intuitively.

[Jack Armstrong]

But it's a jury. Like, if you have a bunch of parents on there, they could get into a discussion of, can you believe she let her kid watch her iPad all day long when she was 6? But, man, I wouldn't be shocked to have a jury think Facebook and Google got $8,000,000,000,000, right? And they knew this was addictive. I charged them $4 billion in fines. Wouldn't shock me.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, it's terrifying being on a jury. Anybody who's been on a jury, well, at least a lot of us know that. Yeah, who knows where they go? I'm picturing special warnings being put on this stuff, like Instagram. Like, when you click on it, there's a warning. You click ok, and then you can just scroll down.

[Jack Armstrong]

So that's almost the worst case scenario. These companies get dinged for ridiculous amounts of money for basically doing what every consumer product does, trying to get you to use it as much as possible. And the only thing that comes out of it that makes society any better is some warning that you have to click on before you scroll all day long on Instagram.

[Joe Getty]

Right? Right. The only reason every other product in the world isn't trying to rearrange your brain chemistry for their profit is they don't know how.

[Announcer]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. Exactly. Oh, man. I can't believe Zuckerberg got up there and his lawyers thought the best angle was to claim they're not trying to maximize engagement though.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

I would have laughed out loud if I was in the jury. What? Please.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Finally on this for now. Yesterday, Zuckerberg said he. He does know, as our reporter said, that underage people are using their product when they're not supposed to. They're lying about their age, and whenever. But whenever they can identify somebody underage, they boot them off. But the lawyer for the plaintiff shot back. You expect a nine year old to read all of that fine print, which I'm not exactly sure I.

[Joe Getty]

It's a score. Is it? Is that a score?

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, I don't know what it is on Instagram. I don't think I have one, but I've seen sites where it says, are you 18?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes.

[Joe Getty]

I mean, that's not a lot of fun. You got me. Damn it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I gotta check.

[Joe Getty]

No.

[Ian Chernis]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

So, coming up, America's favorite Islamianist, Zoran Mumdani is trying to take New York hostage. And how far has CNN fallen? Why did I even mention them just now?

[Jack Armstrong]

Good one. That's good stuff all the way. And the dog that got loose at the Olympics. Oh my God, how many people were bitten?

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[Ian Chernis]

And a late entry at the Olympics. Not chasing gold, just chasing skiers. A family dog got loose and joined a women's cross country club of fire. He didn't win a medal, but he did cross the finish line and get some scratches behind the ear.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it was euthanized as a lesson to other dogs, don't be running around in the course.

[Joe Getty]

Everybody in the Olympic spirit.

[Jack Armstrong]

Everybody was cheering like crazy. The dog crossed the finish line. Everybody's whoo.

[Joe Getty]

Was cute as can be.

[Jack Armstrong]

It was.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh. So, a couple of stories. We'll do our best to cram in. First of all, America's favorite little Islamist, Zoran Mandami, according to the Wall Street Journal, is taking New York hostage. His first big move is threatening to raise property taxes unless Democrats in the Capitol raise taxes on top earners in business. What an ultimatum. Fleece the rich for him or he'll fleece them and the middle class. Then they go into what you brought us yesterday, Jack. New York City's budget is $10 billion more than the state of Florida. Though it has only 40% of the population of the Sunshine State. It's amazing. It's also an enormous city, but. And then this from the invaluable JT in Livermore. New York City's mayor is on record for advocating advocating freezing rents for four years. Presumably this is to help keep housing costs down. However, at the same time he's talking threatening a nine and a half percent increase in property taxes. Presumably this is going to raise housing costs. So on the one hand he thinks keeping housing costs down is good by rent freezes, while on the other hand raising proposed blah, blah, blah is good. In both cases he's hurting the property owners. But I don't want to hear a single yip from Democrats about the double whammy attack on property ownership. Mamdani and those he appointed warned the New Yorkers they would have very different relationship with property going forward. To say nothing about the fact that homeownership is white supremacy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Do you think, Mom? Donnie, that's the first time I've ever said it correctly.

[Joe Getty]

Well done. Probably the last.

[Jack Armstrong]

Do you think he. If he had a magic wand, he'd do away with private homeownership?

[Joe Getty]

Yes, I think so too.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think so too.

[Joe Getty]

And an Islamist, which is crazy, which is rare, usually they tolerate each other just to overthrow Western civilization, liberal democracy, Islamists and communists. And then they are at each other's throats immediately. He's the rare hybrid, I think, although it is hard. I don't know, he might think socialism is hot. I ride this to get Islamism into the United States. I actually believe that's a strategy. Could get into aoc. Calling a New York Times reporter from Berlin in an effort to clean up the coverage of her cringe worthy missteps. But I want to pay this off for sure. Maybe we'll get to that next hour. I don't know. New numbers are out. The ratings for cable news. Viewing the top shows.

[Jack Armstrong]

I love to hate this because it always reminds me, why do I ever. Why do we ever talk about cable news shows?

[Joe Getty]

Nobody's watching those things. Well, your number one show is the five. Interestingly enough. It's okay. Number two, Jesse Waters prime time. Number three, Gutfeld with an exclamation point. Number four, Special Report with Brett Pear. Number five, the Ingram Ingram angle. No, you didn't lose track. The top. Hang on now. 17 shows are all on Fox News,

[Jack Armstrong]

which is, you know, because there's like one outlet for that point of view and 50 outlets for the other point of view.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, virtually all of them. Yeah, all of the rest of them. Then you finally get an Ms. Now show. Msnbc, the execrable horrible show for. Or channel for stupid progressives.

[Jack Armstrong]

What's their top show? Morning Joe,

[Joe Getty]

Deadline, White House with Nicole Wallace.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God, I can't stand her.

[Joe Getty]

Morning, Joseph. Oh, doesn't appear till number 27. But so once you get into like the 18 and on it's MSNBC and Fox News. A few of those, few of those. Blah blah, blah blah blah. Notably absent until you get to number freaking 34. CNN.

[Jack Armstrong]

And do we have a. How many people are actually watching the show?

[Joe Getty]

807,000 average viewer.

[Jack Armstrong]

And that'd be all people, but in the money demo would be significantly smaller than that.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, they're mostly 90 plus. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Where people standing at airports waiting for

[Joe Getty]

the connection they still remember. Oh, who was the. Who was the scud stud?

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow, that's going way back.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, that would have been a great poll if I could have come up with that. But I couldn't. So anyway. Yeah, the best show on CNN is the 34 most watched cable news show. They are nothing. They don't exist. Yeah. Good for clips.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yet they'll probably land a presidential debate.

[Joe Getty]

Good lord, you're right. Or at least yeah, they'll host it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, Jake Tapper and Dana what's her name will be the moderators.

[Joe Getty]

They are the 78 rpm record of cable news. I'm aware of its existence and it was a quaint old thing, but yeah, who'd watch that? I was gonna say great insights from one of our beloved listeners about possible conflict with Iran.

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[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.