Nothing Matters and What If It Did???

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "Nothing Matters and What If It Did???"

Date: August 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Armstrong & Getty dive into existential themes and personal well-being, using the phrase "Nothing Matters and What If It Did???"—itself a nod to a John Cougar Mellencamp album—as a springboard for a wide-ranging conversation. The hosts explore topics spanning presidential fitness, the pursuit of excellence, philosophies like stoicism and Buddhism, mental health, psychedelics, and the art of living in the moment. The show maintains its characteristic blend of humor, cultural references, and candid introspection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Presidential Fitness Goals and Realistic Expectations

Timestamps: 03:32 – 05:47

• The conversation begins with a discussion about RFK Jr. and Pete Hegseth's recent fitness challenge: 50 pull-ups and 100 push-ups in under 5 minutes.
• Hosts marvel at RFK Jr.'s fitness at age 71, noting, “I was watching him crank out those pull ups. Oh my God.” (Joe Rogan, 04:55)
• They critique the idea of setting unattainable standards, relating it to presidential fitness tests from their youth:
  • “If you can't reach the goal, it's meaningless. You don't motivate anybody to do anything.” (Joe Rogan, 05:24)

2. The Pursuit of Perfection vs. Attainable Goals

Timestamps: 05:47 – 07:36

• Michael brings up the NFL documentary “Quarterback” and how athletes like Kirk Cousins chase perfection.
  • “I pursue perfection because pursuing perfection is the only way you get to excellence.” (Michael quoting the docuseries, 07:28)
• The hosts contrast this with the need for realistic, incremental goals (“sub-goals”) that build confidence and achievement.
• Candid admission: “I'd rather not say this out loud…but obviously, if you're doing a podcast, a radio show, you're trying to make it perfect so that it's excellent. It will never be perfect.” (Michael, 07:37–07:56)

3. Extracting Value and Letting Go—Stoicism, Buddhism, and Nihilism

Timestamps: 08:44 – 13:46

• Joe introduces a Jerry Seinfeld interview referencing Marcus Aurelius and the principles of stoicism (09:08):
  • “Marcus Aurelius says your only focus should be on getting better at what you're doing. Focus on what you're doing, get better at what you're doing. Everything else is a complete waste of time.” (Guest, 09:38)
• Michael and Joe discuss similarities between stoicism, Buddhism, and even nihilism—the idea that so much of what we stress over “doesn’t matter.”
• Joe reflects on young children’s ability to be fully present and wonders why adults lose this connection:
  • "Nobody lives in the moment like a 4-year-old or a 2-year-old. I mean they are 1000% invested in what they're doing at that moment." (Joe Rogan, 10:46)
  • They explore why it’s so hard to return to that “in-the-moment” mind as adults.
• Michael summarizes the three stages of life:
  • “You worry about what other people think of you, then you don't worry what other people are thinking of you, then you realize they weren't thinking of you.” (Michael, 12:09)

4. The Meaning of Achievement & Time’s Shortness

Timestamps: 13:02 – 13:46

• A philosophical volley emerges: Is even “getting better at what you’re doing” meaningful if all is ultimately impermanent?
  • “The obvious retort...is all that'll be gone too. So that's a waste of time and meaningless too. I think the answer to that is no. That's really the only true joy and satisfaction you can have.” (Michael, 13:02)
• Joe wisely replies, “It's not a waste of time to pursue something and get better at it. It's meaningless...over in the long run of history of time.” (13:29)
  Michael closes: “But we don’t get a long run. We get a short run. So talk to me about the short run.” (13:39)

5. Achieving “Living in the Moment”—Barriers, Meditation, and Psychedelics

Timestamps: 17:23 – 20:31

• Joe asks listeners for tips on “living in the moment,” noting that while meditation helps his mood, it doesn’t always bring true presence:
  • “If you've had any luck with getting better at living in the moment, please text or email…I would like to get better at that.” (Joe Rogan, 17:31)
• Michael jokingly suggests: “Take mushrooms.” (18:03)
• They discuss Rick Perry’s (former Texas Governor) advocacy for the psychedelic ibogaine in treating PTSD and the power of psychedelics to disrupt automatic thinking patterns:
  • “You can step outside of your own experience and think, huh, that's not a good way to think about that. And it's up to me to think about it differently.” (Michael, 19:10)
• Insights are offered on how ingrained mental habits can be gently disrupted to benefit mental health.

6. The Noise of Modern Minds

Timestamps: 20:31 – 21:31

• Joe references research suggesting that “98% of the thoughts you have are completely waste. Like, not needed at all. They're just random crap.” (Joe Rogan, 20:35)
• Humorous speculation: Were people 200 years ago (like oxen-plowing farmers) troubled by useless thoughts or simply too busy with physical labor?
• Michael quips: “Well, you both. I think you would focus on what you were doing, but as long as the ox was going straight, you would daydream a lot.” (Michael, 21:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Unattainable Goals:
  “If you can't reach the goal, it's meaningless. You don't motivate anybody…”
  — Joe Rogan, 05:24

• On Perfection:
  “I pursue perfection because pursuing perfection is the only way you get to excellence.”
  — (Quoted from NFL doc, 07:28)

• On Stoicism:
  “Your only focus should be on getting better at what you're doing. Everything else is a complete waste of time.”
  — Guest, 09:38

• On Living in the Moment:
  “Nobody lives in the moment like a 4-year-old...they are 1000% invested in what they're doing at that moment.”
  — Joe Rogan, 10:46

• On How Little Others Care:
  “You worry about what other people think of you, then you don't worry...then you realize they weren't thinking of you.”
  — Michael, 12:09

• On Meaning in the Short Run:
  “We don’t get a long run. We get a short run. So talk to me about the short run.”
  — Michael, 13:39

• On Disrupting Mental Habits:
  “Psychedelics can have a way of separating you from all of those assumptions that you make every day.”
  — Michael, 19:01

• On Mind Clutter:
  “98% of the thoughts you have are completely waste…just random crap.”
  — Joe Rogan, 20:35

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Flow & Tone

The conversational flow is fast, playful, and self-deprecating, moving quickly from politics to philosophy to personal anecdotes. Humor abounds, particularly as the hosts poke fun at their own foibles and aging bodies. Underneath the banter, there’s earnest curiosity about living better lives—both for themselves and for listeners.

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Key Timestamps

• 03:32 – RFK Jr. fitness challenge, presidential goals
• 05:24 – The pitfalls of unreachable objectives
• 07:28 – Insights from NFL docuseries on perfection
• 09:08 – Jerry Seinfeld, Marcus Aurelius, and stoicism
• 10:46 – Children as role models for living in the moment
• 12:09 – Three stages of worrying about others’ opinions
• 13:02 – Existential musings on meaning and satisfaction
• 17:31 – Struggles (and attempts) to live in the moment; meditation
• 18:03 – Role of psychedelics, Rick Perry’s advocacy
• 20:35 – The noise of unnecessary thoughts
• 21:02 – The daydreaming farmer and the modern mind

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This episode invites listeners to laugh, question their anxieties, and perhaps take one step closer to living meaningfully in the fleeting present.

Transcript

[Christina Quinn]

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[Lenovo/Washable Sofas Advertiser]

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[Christina Quinn]

If you eat too many ultra processed foods, you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course about the gut microbiome. You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening to Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig in with me on practical advice for life's common challenges. Follow. Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.

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[Christina Quinn]

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[Joe Rogan]

Nothing Matters and what if it Did? It's One More thing.

[Big Three Basketball Announcer]

Armstrong and Getty One more thing.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the name of a John Cougar Mellencamp album, isn't it? Is that the name of an album?

[Michael]

Yeah, it's absolutely an album.

[Joe Rogan]

Nothing Matters and what if it did?

[Michael]

And he's checking. Is that John Melonhead?

[Joe Rogan]

I think so, as we used to.

[Michael]

Call him back in the Midwest.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep, but it's Melon Head. But before we get to Nothing Matters and what if it did, RFK Jr. Our Secretary of Health and something or other and Pete Hegseth, the SEC def had a bit of a fitness challenge thing they were doing yesterday to try to get the whole presidential fitness thing off and running and emphasize fitness. Here's a little bit about that.

[Michael]

1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. Hi, I'm Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. You're AJ Secretary. I'm here with Secretary Hexit from the Department of Defense and we had our big, big deep body challenge today. 50 pull ups, 100 push ups. You try to get under five minutes.

[Big Three Basketball Announcer]

How'd you get? We got close.

[Michael]

That was about 5, 25. You were right behind me.

[Joe Rogan]

The numbers on that. If you didn't catch him, 50 pull ups, which would take me a month and 100 push ups, which I could do in, you know, in a half an hour, probably in under five minutes. He didn't quite get there. Now Pete Hegseth is 45 and in super shape and was doing pull ups and everything like that. Still, you know, impressive. But freaking RFK Jr 71 and I was watching him crank out those pull ups. Oh my God.

[Michael]

Well, he's a roid boy, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but still he's 71 and he was Wearing jeans and he's wearing jeans at the gym like I do.

[Michael]

I do at the gym. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Those of us who believe in wearing dungarees to the gymnasium.

[Michael]

Yes. Were you wearing cowboy boots as well to the gym?

[Joe Rogan]

I was not.

[Michael]

I was wearing gymnasium shoes and leather boots.

[Big Three Basketball Announcer]

He was at the beach.

[Michael]

Shoes, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

The problem with setting the standards too high, I feel like this is what the presidential fitness thing was like when we were kids. You set a standard that nobody can get. It's something you learn with goal setting business. If you can't reach the goal, it's meaningless. You don't motivate anybody to do anything. And like if you have a goal of 50 pull ups, I don't like work toward it. I just think, screw it, I'm never going to be able to do it. So you have to have a realistic goal, for crying out loud.

[Michael]

I would agree. Yes, certainly sub goals that you can reach. It was funny though. I mentioned during the end of the radio show that I'm watching Quarterback on Netflix there. Charming. Peyton Manning produced, you know, documentary on NFL quarterbacks. They like highlight three of them per season and follow them through the season. The ups and downs and injuries and stuff like that. It's really good and compelling.

[Joe Rogan]

Which season?

[Michael]

Oh, the most recent season. Joe Burrow of the Cincinnati Bengals. Handsome as can be.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm a Burrow fan.

[Michael]

Yeah, me too. Really interesting guy. You're putting me on the spot here. It was with the Rams, now with the, the Detroit Lions. Doing great. Got traded for Matthew Stafford. Michael, help me here. I can see the face. I can't remember. I know. Me too. Me too. It'll wait. They. They. Jared Goff. They changed his name all around the city. They chant whenever they see him. Jared Golf. We just needed Jared Golf.

[Joe Rogan]

That's interesting that you couldn't remember, but when you chanted you could remember. Yeah, well.

[Michael]

Yeah, well, that's why people, you can remember stuff set to music. And then the third one is Handsome fella, used to be quarterback from Minnesota. He's now Atlanta. Square jawed Christian father, Kirk Cousins. Cousins. Thank you very much, Michael. Anyway, I can't remember which it might have been. Cousins said I pursue perfection. Maybe it wasn't because it doesn't matter. I pursue perfection because pursuing perfection is the only way you get to excellence.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting.

[Michael]

But that's different than a number of push ups. It's just. I thought, I thought of that when you brought that up.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Michael]

Well, I, I think it's. And, and I'd rather not say this out Loud. Because of the derision it will and should bring. But obviously, if you're doing, I don't know, a podcast, a radio show, you're trying to make it perfect so that it's excellent. It will never be perfect.

[Joe Rogan]

That's clear.

[Michael]

Eliminate all mistakes and f ups and boring parts and the rest. That's the goal. Clearly.

[Joe Rogan]

Huh.

[Michael]

Where were we? I can't even do a pull up.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you believe that?

[Michael]

I'm doing a lot of assisted pull ups. You ever seen that machine? Yeah, yeah, the counterweight machine.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that thing is great. Same with. Yeah, because then you can at least do them.

[Michael]

Yeah, I use the.

[Joe Rogan]

The resistance bands attached to the bar. Yeah. I was going to a fancy gym that had those machines where you could do dips or pull ups with a little assistant. Yeah, that was great. The gym I go to now is pretty much just giant hunks of metal and bar, so it doesn't have the fancy stuff, but. Yeah.

[Michael]

Can you just go ahead and say you're. You're in prison? Let's just be honest about it, Jack. Right now he's broadcasting from cell block.

[Joe Rogan]

C. That's right from when I defrauded an innkeeper that one time I went to two movies for one price. A Dark Day. Okay, so that's that. And then this other thing I wanted to get on here, this is a little Instagram reel. I came across a Jerry Seinfeld that I thought was really interesting.

[Michael]

I've always had the skill of extracting.

[Joe Rogan]

The essence of any subject I study, be it Scientology, Judaism, Zen, yoga, meditation.

[Michael]

Right on the.

[Guest/Philosophy Enthusiast]

Marcus Aurelius is my new one.

[Joe Rogan]

How so?

[Guest/Philosophy Enthusiast]

The Roman emperor who wrote a book called Meditations, which was the beginning of stoicism, and that. That's my obsession now, is Marcus Aurelius. He had this fantastic philosophical observations on life.

[Michael]

And you've learned what from that?

[Guest/Philosophy Enthusiast]

That everything that you're worried about is going to be gone. Like that. The people that you. That are criticizing you, they're going to be gone. You're going to be gone. All this hand wringing, worry and concern over how are people viewing me and someone said something bad about me and you get so upset about it is wasted time and energy. Marcus Aurelius says your only focus should be on getting better at what you're doing. Focus on what you're doing, get better at what you're doing. Everything else is a complete waste of time.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought that was damned interesting.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, I. I agree. And I'm really interested in stoicism and Read a fair amount about it. It's interesting how stoicism or like Buddhism being, you know, completely at peace and very Zen. The rest of it is not far off of nihilism.

[Joe Rogan]

True.

[Michael]

It's a bit of a horseshoe theory thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Michael]

They all get to so much of what you worry about doesn't matter. So stop worrying.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it possible to get very far down the road though of letting go of worrying about crap you shouldn't worry about? And I think about it. I was thinking about this the other day. So I heard that Seinfeld thing two days ago and I've been, it's been on my mind a lot and I'd had in the last week I'd seen a couple of little kids between the ages of like 2 and 4 doing their little kid thing like in the park or at stores or whatever. Nobody lives in the moment like a 4 year old or a 2 year old. I mean they are 1000% invested in what they're doing at that moment. They're not thinking about, you know, what is the point of this or it's going to be hot this weekend or.

[Michael]

Whatever or what do people think of me making this mud piece?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Or I, I sure wish I had a new car.

[Michael]

How am I going to pay that bill?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. Or just, well, paying a bill at least there's something important there. A lot of the stuff you worry about just has no value whatsoever. It means zero value. Is there a reason we age out of that and can't get back into it at all as much as I'll get in the park? And I thought, God, it would be if I could do that for 10 minutes. How refreshing would it be to be completely in the moment without dwelling on stupid crap?

[Michael]

Yeah, I think some people do return to it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Indeed. In older age you realize it's, you know, the cliche, but it's a good one, is the three stages. You worry about what other people think of you, then you don't worry what other people are thinking of you. Then you realize they weren't thinking of you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, Michael.

[Michael]

No, I agree with what Joe said. When you get much older, you get to a point where you don't care what you say. Oh, and that is my favorite stage of people.

[Joe Rogan]

That's funny. I love that my 13 year old keeps talking about I can't wait till I'm old and I can just say whatever I want. We'll walk by a group of people. He said, you know what I would say if I was old?

[Michael]

I just love it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well there's that. But huh. Yeah, I suppose it doesn't. A lot of it doesn't matter anymore. So that's one way to let go of it. It never did matter is the thing. It never did matter.

[Michael]

That realization that it never mattered. Maybe that clicks. And if anybody else got hung up on this because I was thinking about it for a second or two, but Jerry Seinfeld saying the only thing that matters is to get better at what you are doing to do that. Well, the obvious retort to that is all that'll be gone too. So that's a waste of time and meaningless too. I think the answer to that is no. That's really the only true joy and satisfaction you can have.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's not a waste of time to pursue something and get better at it. It's meaningless. Over in the long run of history of time.

[Michael]

But we don't get a long run.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Michael]

You know, we get a short run.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Michael]

So talk to me about the short run.

[Lenovo/Washable Sofas Advertiser]

This Labor Day. Say goodbye to spills, stains and overpriced furniture with washablesofas.com featuring Anabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $6.99, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anibe's Pet Friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your life now through Labor Day. Get up to 60% off site [e-mail] Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees. Every penny back. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Big Three Basketball Announcer]

The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. And to cap off the season, iHeart presents the Big 3 Basketball Championship and 8th Annual Big 3 All Star Game this coming Sunday, August 24th. Live from Orlando, the remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 Championship Dr. Jake Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. Don't miss the wild conclusion of Big Three's eighth and most historic season ever. This is the game no one wants to lose and there's no crying in the Big three. The action starts with the Big Three eighth Annual All Star Game. Don't miss All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez Harrell, MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stevens, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nazir Kor and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Victory's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new big three champion. The no holds part action starts Sunday at 2pm Eastern, 11 Pacific only on CBS.

[Christina Quinn]

If you eat too many ultra processed foods, you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course about the gut microbiome. You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening to Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig in with me on practical advice for life's common challenges. Follow Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.

[Abeka Homeschool Advertiser]

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[Joe Rogan]

Come on.

[Christina Quinn]

Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

[Lenovo Tech Advertiser]

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[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Abeka Homeschool Advertiser]

This thing moves.

[Lenovo Tech Advertiser]

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[Michael]

With all due respect to those who are going to come in 650 years, I wish them well. But that ain't my problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I don't know that Living in the Moment if you if you've had any luck with getting better at living in the moment, please text or email. I would like. I would like to get better at that I meditate all the time. Like I've talked about on the air a lot and it's helped a lot with like even Keel and all that sort of stuff. But living in the moment, it hasn't improved any. I don't think I want to be like a three year old at the park. And all I'm thinking about is how green the grass is. Not they, they, they, they over watered it is probably my tax money and you know, just wherever else my mind goes.

[Michael]

Take mushrooms.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the answer. Take mushrooms.

[Michael]

There you go. That's an, that's an answer. You know, it's funny. I've been sitting on this article for a while. Of all people, Rick Perry, the former governor of Texas, has become this big time forceful advocate for. It's, it's not mushrooms. I think it's ibogaine, one of your hallucinogenic drugs.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what Joe Rogan's talking about all the time.

[Michael]

Yeah, to treat PTSD in particular among service people. And, and, and it's really interesting. It's funny because I saw the headline, the Long Strange Trip of Rick Perry, the former Texas and Trump Energy Secretary. Oops, Oopsie. Has now dedicated his life to promoting the powerful psychedelic ibogaine. And I thought, wow, that's wacky. That's crazy. Is he a lobbyist or whatever? But no, as it turns out, it's really, really interesting. And he is seriously concerned about people because he's had some psychological problems that he never talked about, kept it quiet like you do in politics, but he's seriously concerned about veterans especially. And I will tell you, from talking to others who have experimented with psychedelic drugs through the years, the way human beings look at life and experiences what we're talking about being in the moment, that sort of thing, is a long set of interconnected assumptions that you never think about anymore. They come to you automatically, and then you think the only choice is, all right, what do I do? Now? Psychedelics can have a way of separating you from all of those assumptions that you make every day. And you realize, wow, a lot of what my mind has been doing has been a choice. It just doesn't feel like a choice anymore. And it's really helped folks with PTSD and that sort of thing, and, and not just from battle, but, you know, victims of crime and that sort of thing. You can step outside of your own experience and think, huh, that's not a good way to think about that. And it's up to me to think about it differently. So anyway, Rick Perry's real advocate for that.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. I remember like a year or so.

[Michael]

Ago there was some addiction too. It can really help with addiction.

[Joe Rogan]

There's some sort of story about like 98 of the thoughts you have are completely waste. Like not needed at all. They're just random crap. Oh geez. There should be a way to stop that, shouldn't there? Did if you were a if you're behind on an oxen with a with a metal plow 200 years ago, did you have random useless thoughts or were you too busy toiling?

[Michael]

Well, you both. I think you would focus on what you were doing, but as long as the ox was going straight, you would daydream a lot.

[Joe Rogan]

Freaking crooked ox. Jesus.

[Michael]

Straighten up there oxy boy.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you gotta pay to get an ox that will walk straight? When I was a kid, oxes walk straight easy oxes. I don't know.

[Michael]

Well, I guess that's it.

[Big Three Basketball Announcer]

I heart presents the Big 3 Championship next Sunday, August 24th. The remaining two teams fight it out for the Big 3 Championship Dr. J Trophy in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big Three 8th annual All Star Game featuring All Stars Dwight Howard, Montrez Harrell, MVP Michael Beasley, Lance will make you Dan Stephenson, Jordan Crawford, Greg Monroe, Earl Clark, Nazia Kor and more show you why they are the best three on three basketball players in the world. Big three's exciting all star game plus the crowning of a new big three champion. The no holds barred action starts Sunday at 2pm Eastern 11 Pacific only on CBS.

[Lenovo/Washable Sofas Advertiser]

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[Christina Quinn]

If you eat too many ultra processed foods, you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course about the gut microbiome. You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening to Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig in with me on practical advice for life's common challenges. Follow Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.

[Abeka Homeschool Advertiser]

As a parent, you wear many hats. At dinner, you're the chef. When your kids play, you're the ref. And let's face it, you're basically a full time chauffeur. Fortunately, when it's time to wear your teacher hat, Abeka makes things easy. Our proven, flexible homeschool curriculum is designed to let your kids retain and build on the knowledge they acquire, setting them up for success later in life. Abeka Learning for life begins with the right homeschool education. Learn [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast.