Ohhhhh...Are you E-N-M?

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Armstrong & Getty On Demand
Episode Title: Ohhhhh...Are you E-N-M?
Release Date: February 26, 2026
Main Theme:
This episode dives into trending topics on modern dating, with particular focus on the concept of "E-N-M" (Ethical Non-Monogamy) as encountered on dating apps. The hosts unpack related terms, trends like "ghost lighting," personal anecdotes, and broader reflections on why these trends are gaining attention, all with characteristic humor, skepticism, and candidness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ghost Lighting: A New Dating Trend

Timestamps: 01:40 – 03:16

• Definition & Discussion:
  Michael introduces “ghost lighting” – when someone you’re dating disappears with no explanation, only to reappear later and act as if nothing happened.

  • Quote (Michael, 02:01):
    "You’re dating somebody...Everything’s going well. They text you good morning, you’re feeling good about it, and then all of a sudden they disappear...and then...they pop back up again...They act like nothing happened."
  • Michael explains this is a combination of ghosting and gaslighting, but Getty dismisses the accuracy:
    • Quote (Getty, 02:31):
      “No, it’s not.”

• Host Reactions:

  • Armstrong shares a personal anecdote, naming narcissistic behavior as a cause.
  • Michael self-reflects, admitting he's unintentionally done this.
  • Getty wittily wrestles with his feelings towards the cleverness of the trend’s name vs. disdain for such internet phenomena:
    • Quote (Getty, 03:00):
      “I’m torn between conflicting impulses, admiring the cleverness of the term ghost lighting while despising Internet trends in general.”

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2. Online Trend Skepticism

Timestamps: 03:18 – 03:57

• China Maxing & ‘New Trends’:
  • Getty introduces “china maxing,” then quickly abandons it, questioning how long such clickbait trend stories will stay popular.
  • Quote (Getty, 03:36):
    “How much longer will people fall for the clickbait of ‘here’s the hottest new trend online?’...It’s five people who did something. It’s not a trend..."

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3. Ethical Non-Monogamy (E-N-M) & Polyfidelity

Timestamps: 03:57 – 06:59

• Introduction & Definitions:

  • Michael notes increased mentions of E-N-M in dating app profiles and brings up terms like polyfidelity.
  • Getty and Michael attempt to distinguish between polyfidelity (being "faithful" among a small group) and E-N-M (Ethical Non-Monogamy).
  • Quote (Michael, 04:38):
    “Ethical non-monogamy...where three or more people in a closed group agree to exclusively have sex with one another...you’re honest about it...which differentiates it from cheating or infidelity.”

• Personal Anecdotes:

  • Armstrong asks if anyone has been propositioned for non-monogamy.
    • Michael shares a story of a neighbor propositioning his wife and him after drinking—a laughable and awkward moment.
    • Katie Armstrong recalls being approached by a couple for a threesome, years before such proposals became common parlance online:
      • Quote (Armstrong, 06:11):
        “...he sends me a text...‘Hey, I showed my fiancé our photo and she would really like it if you would come over and join us.’...it freaked me the hell out.”

• Comparisons and Nuance:

  • Michael and Armstrong clarify: a one-off threesome isn’t the same as E-N-M, which is more about established arrangements rather than spontaneous encounters.
  • Getty colorfully compares these arrangements to sports leagues:
    • Quote (Getty, 07:16):
      “It’s like you’re in the same league...you each do your thing and you all know what’s going on.”
  • Michael expresses strong disinterest, seeing emotional and sexual complexity:
    • Quote (Michael, 07:36):
      “I have no interest in that. Like, zero.”

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4. Reflections on Feasibility & Emotional Realities

Timestamps: 08:01 – 09:47

• Group Dynamics & Inequalities:
  • Michael questions real-world challenges, like jealousy over unequal attention:
    • Quote (Michael, 08:01):
      “How do you avoid...‘You had a date with him three times last week, and you haven’t had a date with me in two weeks’?”
  • Getty suggests it’s rare not to run into issues of imbalance.
  • Michael speculates that the most attractive person sets the tone in these relationships.
  • Getty references published stories of people who tried open relationships—sometimes enthusiastically, but often with regrets.
  • Michael notes a generational/age aspect, observing such profiles are not rare among younger users.

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5. Light-Hearted Finale: Cats, Sexuality & Humor

Timestamps: 09:47 – 11:03

• Humorous Detour:

  • Armstrong jokes about Michael’s cats possibly being gay—a tongue-in-cheek digression.
  • They play a silly earworm song about “gay cats.”
    • Quote (Singing Voice, 10:10):
      “I want to know if my cats are gay, or if they are brothers. I want to know if they love each other, if they are lovers. Do I have gay cats?”

• E-N-M for Cats?:

  • Michael jokes about cats wanting an “ethical non-monogamy” arrangement by bringing another kitten into the mix.
  • Banter about feline age of consent and “cat perverts.”

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Memorable Quotes

• Michael (on ghost lighting, 02:01):
  “They disappear ... and then they pop back up again ... they act like nothing happened.”
• Getty (on internet trends, 03:36):
  “It’s five people who did something. It’s not a trend, it’s the way human beings behave.”
• Armstrong (on awkward proposition, 06:11):
  “’She would really like it if you would come over and join us.’ ... it freaked me the hell out.”
• Getty (on open relationships, 07:47):
  “I admire it in a way because they’re like, ‘I’m not monogamous. I don’t plan to be, but I’m not a liar and I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings.’”
• Michael (on relationship logistics, 08:01):
  “How do you avoid ... ‘you’ve had a date with him three times last week and you haven’t had a date with me in two weeks?’”
• Singing Voice (gay cats song, 10:10):
  “If they are gay, then that’s okay. Do I have gay cats. Gay cats. Gay cats.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ghost Lighting Definition & Discussion: 01:40 – 03:16
• Online Trend Skepticism: 03:18 – 03:57
• Ethical Non-Monogamy & Polyfidelity Discussion: 03:57 – 06:59
• Feasibility and Emotional Complexities: 08:01 – 09:47
• Humorous Cats Segment: 09:47 – 11:03

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Tone & Style

The episode is lively and conversational, blending skepticism, humor, and the hosts’ signature irreverence. The discussion moves fluidly between earnest attempts to understand evolving relationship norms, personal stories, playful banter, and satirical asides.

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Summary

This Armstrong & Getty episode spotlights how dating culture evolves—and sometimes baffles—through new terminology, shifting social norms, and internet-fueled trends. The hosts tackle “ghost lighting,” the nuances of “ethical non-monogamy,” and the realities versus perception of such lifestyles, all while peppering their talk with personal anecdotes and their trademark comedic touch. Listeners unfamiliar with modern dating terminology will come away entertained and more informed, even if (like the hosts) they remain plenty skeptical.

Transcript

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[Michael]

Sometimes AT T Business Wireless Connecting changes everything. Ooh, are you enm? I don't know. It's one more thing.

[Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Getty]

One more thing. Oh, wow. I have no idea where this is going. Enm, you say?

[Michael]

I'd say on. On your bumble dating profile thingy. The dating website 10% at least are E M. List themselves as E M. We'll get to that in a second. First, I wanted to hear the thing about the ghosting and that trend in dating. Can we hear that?

[Michael (continuing)]

Michael, you're dating somebody. You're talking. You haven't defined anything. Everything's going well. They text you good morning, you're feeling good about it, and then all of a sudden they disappear. There's no explanation. There's no why. Just crickets. And then some time passes and they pop back up again. And here's the catch. They act like nothing happened. They don't acknowledge the absence. They don't say, hey, sorry, I had a couple days that were really busy at work. It's just like, hey, what's up? What are you doing?

[Michael]

That's called ghost lighting. So I guess it's a combination of ghosting and gaslighting.

[Getty]

No, it's not.

[Armstrong]

I had someone do that to me and he was a narcissist. That was about it.

[Michael]

So you disappear and then you come back as if you didn't disappear.

[Armstrong]

Yeah. Just expecting everything was going to be just fine. And it's not.

[Michael]

I Think I've done that with people. Not on purpose though. But it is a good indication that you're not quite as into it as they were hoping.

[Armstrong]

Yeah,

[Getty]

yeah, yeah. I'm torn between conflicting impulses, admiring the cleverness of the term ghost lighting while despising Internet trends in general.

[Armstrong]

Say who are you? Usually it's the latter.

[Michael]

The whole thing is awful.

[Getty]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Just as a.

[Getty]

Again, as a wordsmith, I appreciate the trickery there. Yeah, I mentioned this during the show. Could pay it off now. China maxing is the hottest new online trend. Here's a question for you and I'm not even going to get into that. I don't want to dignify it, but

[Michael]

one, we got to find out what E and M means, so.

[Getty]

Oh, I can't wait. How much longer will people fall for the clickbait of here's the hottest new trend online? Because it's always stupid. It's five people who did something. It's not a trend, it's the way human beings behave. I think that's got maybe three, four more months in it. Then nobody will click on that stuff.

[Michael]

Well, this particular article I hold in my hand is trying to claim that open relationships are on the rise in the United States. And I don't know if it's actually true or not. All kinds of online surveyed data stuff the states where it's most likely to have an open relationship. Texas, California, Florida, Georgia, New York. Okay, maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But it does have a couple of things in here that I'm aware of their existence though I don't participate myself. Terms that I don't know what poly fidelity is that one I actually don't know.

[Getty]

But E M, yes, it means you got like two lovers and you're faithful to the two of them.

[Michael]

Well the why is that different than E M? Because that's what EM is. Ethical non monogamy. And I've seen that listed lots of places. I had to look that up and then I'm on. No, I don't quite get the thing there.

[Getty]

I've read about it. You come to an agreement about what the parameters are. They're non monogamous but you like say hey I'm thinking of sleeping with the barista down the street and you let each other know or whatever.

[Michael]

Yeah, ethical non monogamy is where three or more people in a closed group agree to exclusively have sex with one of the other. It's just the three of us or the four of us or whatever number you come up with. And then you're honest about it, it's. Which differentiates it from cheating or infidelity or whatever. I don't know.

[Armstrong]

Haven't either of you ever been propositioned into this ever?

[Michael]

My neighbor. Many, many, many, many years ago. Gladys. I mean, it was a long time ago.

[Armstrong]

Okay.

[Michael]

My neighbor asked my wife when they were both drunk if we wanted to bring him into our relationship, which we both howled in laughter at. The idea of DNM drunk. Non monogamy just seemed ridiculous for a number of reasons, but that's as far as I go. Yes. Katie, you're a young, attractive woman. I could see how this would be.

[Armstrong]

Yeah, I was at some. Well, this is my first mistake. I met some bartender at a club in San Francisco and we. But we were talking a majority of the night and we even took a picture together, blah, blah. Anyway, the next day he sends me a text message and it said something along the lines of, hey, I showed my fiance our photo and she would really like it if you would come over and join us. And this was, I mean, 15 years ago or so. So this was kind of before all this stuff came onto the Internet. And it freaked me the hell out.

[Michael]

Yeah. Well.

[Getty]

So how was it?

[Armstrong]

Very good.

[Getty]

Yeah.

[Armstrong]

I said, no, thanks, you know, so.

[Michael]

But that's the three of you together. That's a threesome.

[Armstrong]

Yeah. They wanted me.

[Michael]

Heard of this sort of thing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Armstrong]

They wanted me to join their relationship.

[Michael]

My sense of the ethical non monogamy thing is that the three of you aren't together in a bed ever. It's just you pair off the three or four of your. Whatever the number is.

[Getty]

It's like you're in the same league.

[Michael]

Yeah, exactly. You're all in the NBA West. Right, Exactly. And you each do your thing and you all know what's going on and you're okay with it. But no more go outside the circle

[Getty]

and get diseases or complicate things. Right.

[Michael]

I have no interest in that. Like, zero.

[Armstrong]

Sounds complicated.

[Michael]

Well, and I just. Emotionally.

[Getty]

Well, sexually.

[Michael]

Emotionally, everything, it just. It doesn't appeal to me. I guess it appeals to some people.

[Getty]

Yeah, clearly it does. I'm not made that way either. I admire it in a way because they're like, I'm not monogamous. I don't plan to be, but I'm not a liar and I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

[Michael]

Yeah, I guess that's. I guess a step in the right direction. But how do you avoid the. Anybody in the group thinking, boy, you had A date with him three times last week and you haven't had a date with me in two weeks. What? Seems like you date him more than you date me. I mean, how do you not end up with that at some point in one direction or the other?

[Getty]

I think it's very rare that you don't.

[Michael]

Right. Right. I think I'm guessing in a lot of these things, the most attractive person, male or female, often who can just pick and choose with who and whenever they want, feels like everybody's as comfortable with it as they are. They're kind of like setting the standard.

[Getty]

I've read a couple of long pieces of writing. I can't remember if it was like the Free Press or New York Times Magazine or something. I was in an open relationship. I was fine with it and grew to hate it. And I've come across a couple of things like that.

[Michael]

Well, right. I mean, if you're both equally attractive and have equal options, I suppose it possibly could work for. But if one of you is like, got all kinds of options and the other one doesn't, or is taking advantage of all kinds of. I just wouldn't think there'd be a chance of that. But I don't know. I've never done it and I have no interest in doing it. But I was surprised how often you see em on people's profiles in the dating app thing. More than. I mean, it's not like very rare. It's not. It's not the common. It's not the close to the majority. It's fairly common. Probably mostly younger people. I. I don't know. I don't actually know. Why did you bring me this article, Michael? What tripped your trigger about it? You seem to be really interested.

[Armstrong]

Yeah, you and your.

[Michael]

You and your wife and your cats.

[Armstrong]

No, no, I just. It was put in front of me. Yeah. By the way, I do think my cats may be gay. I was gonna ask. That was my next question.

[Michael]

Do we have that song from yesterday? Yeah, I'll grab it real quick.

[Getty]

My cats are gay.

[Michael]

Not to play that again.

[Armstrong]

That stupid song was in my head for it.

[Michael]

Genius.

[Getty]

It's an earworm. And you got to bring your cats to the vet to make sure they don't get that.

[Singing Voice]

I want to know if my cats are gay or if they are brothers. I want to know if they love each other, if they are lovers. Do I have gay cats?

[Armstrong]

That part.

[Singing Voice]

I want to know if my cats are gay. Do I have gay cats? If they are gay, then that's okay. Do I have gay cats. Gay cats. Gay cats.

[Michael]

The ending. Gay cat.

[Getty]

It's so perfect.

[Michael]

Maybe your cats are e m. They want to bring another kitten in or something. A tom?

[Getty]

Yeah, a kitten. Oh, that'd be sick.

[Michael]

I don't know.

[Getty]

What.

[Michael]

What if there are age limits on cats? I don't know what the ethics are for cats.

[Getty]

Age of consent. Meow means meow. You pervert. Cat pervert.

[Armstrong]

Anyway, well, I guess that's it.

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