People Need to Calm Down!

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "People Need to Call Down!" (May 15, 2026)

Host: Armstrong & Getty, iHeartPodcasts
Guest: Gordon Chang, columnist at the Daily Beast

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Episode Overview

This lively episode dives into the U.S.-China relationship, focusing on the high-stakes summit between Donald Trump and President Xi Jinping. The hosts discuss the escalating issue of Taiwan, China’s global ambitions, and America’s strategic responses with guest expert Gordon Chang. The conversation ranges from military alliances and nuclear threats to China's historical context and the unnerving legacy of Chairman Mao.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Xi Jinping’s Obsession with Taiwan

[00:33 - 02:43]

• Xi's Fixed Stance: Armstrong highlights how reunification with Taiwan is a deep-rooted objective of the Chinese Communist Party, but it’s become an “obsession” under Xi Jinping.
• Summit Recap: Getty notes that Xi immediately addressed Taiwan with Trump, warning that mishandling the issue “could lead to conflict and an extremely dangerous situation.”
  • “Basically a threat from President Xi about don't get in our way if we decide to take Taiwan.” – Getty [01:27]
• White House Readouts: The official U.S. account doesn’t mention Taiwan, only discussing “business relations.” The Chinese version focuses on the Taiwan threat.

2. U.S. Policy on Taiwan

[02:45 - 04:26]

• Gordon Chang on U.S. Stance: Chang confirms Xi's comment was “certainly a threat” and says, “there’ll be no change in US Policy, which is good.” He prefers a more explicit U.S. commitment to Taiwan’s defense.
• Speculation About Presidential Responses: Getty and Armstrong question if, in reality, any U.S. president—Trump, Harris, Biden, or Obama—would actually commit to defending Taiwan in a conflict.
  • “It's always been kind of an open question, would we actually go to war with China to defend Taiwan if it came down to it?” – Getty [04:27]
• Historical Perspective: Armstrong draws parallels to past U.S. defense postures, referencing the Korean War and the unpredictable nature of U.S. military commitments.

3. Why Defending Taiwan Matters

[05:18 - 06:34]

• Semiconductor Chokepoint: Chang emphasizes Taiwan produces 92% of the world’s most advanced chips, making control over it vital to global technology.
  • “Forget about a future… involving microchips. After the catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan, Taiwan has become the test of American credibility and resolve around the world.” – Chang [05:30]
• Geostrategic Implications: Losing Taiwan would devastate U.S. global standing, threaten allies like Japan and the Philippines, and would be “shameful” for America.

4. Strait of Hormuz, Iran, and China’s Role

[06:49 - 08:36]

• Straits & Alliances: The hosts discuss U.S.-Indonesia security deals to control the critical Strait of Malacca and stress the importance of keeping the Strait of Hormuz open for world commerce.
  • “Trump is thinking about these things in a very determined way. So here again, give him credit.” – Chang [06:49]
• China & Iran’s Nuclear Program: Chang points out that China played a foundational role in Iran’s nuclear development, directly and through Pakistan’s AQ Khan network. He argues this legacy underpins current Middle East volatility.

5. The Mao Zedong Paradox & America’s Rhetoric

[08:36 - 10:57]

• Chairman Mao’s Legacy: Getty and Armstrong note the surrealness of U.S.-China summits taking place under a giant portrait of Mao, whom they call "the most evil person in world history."
  • “Mao is responsible for more deaths than any other figure in history... Mao's death toll is enormous.” – Chang [09:05]
• Cognitive Dissonance: Getty highlights the hypocrisy and silence towards Mao’s legacy during diplomatic events, contrasting to how open criticism was leveled at the Soviet Union.
  • “We can have Elon Musk and all these people and Trump... and you got the most evil person in world history looking down on it. Seems like somebody ought to throw out, by the way, that system is currently in place and that's evil.” – Getty [10:00]
• China as an Adversary: Armstrong stresses the CCP's propaganda and declares China views the U.S. as an enemy.
  • “That system has declared the United States to be its enemy... both [Osama bin Laden and China] believe that they must destroy the United States.” – Armstrong [10:24]

6. Economic Realities of U.S.-China Rivalry

[11:57 - 13:31]

• Economic Ties vs. Moral Clarity: Getty acknowledges why the U.S. is muzzled on calling out evil: economic interdependence with China is much deeper than it ever was with the Soviet Union.
  • The Soviet Union’s GDP was only “a third of our economic power,” whereas China’s is now “about 75%,” sometimes reckoned as equal.
• Media Critique: Getty is baffled no U.S. network points out Mao’s atrocities on air, comparing the situation to hypothetically ignoring a Hitler image in Germany.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Gordon Chang:
  • “Xi Jinping has just been huffing and puffing, and I think President Trump knows it.” [03:17]
  • “If we didn’t [defend Taiwan], it would be catastrophic.” [04:46]
• Getty:
  • "Seems like somebody ought to throw out, by the way, that system is currently in place and that's evil." [10:00]
  • “Why does nobody say that out loud? Isn't that weird?... If you were in Munich and you had a giant Hitler poster, somebody would say something.” [13:21]
• Armstrong:
  • “Mao is responsible for more deaths than any other figure in history. More than Hitler, more than Stalin, more than Genghis Khan.” [09:05]
  • “That system has declared the United States to be its enemy. ... China is still in a position to do that [destroy the U.S.].” [10:24]

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• 00:33 – 02:43 | Xi’s fixation on Taiwan & U.S.-China summit details
• 02:45 – 04:26 | Gordon Chang on the reality and optics of U.S. Taiwan policy
• 05:18 – 06:34 | Why Taiwan matters: semiconductors, credibility, defense lines
• 06:49 – 08:36 | Strait of Malacca/Hormuz: vital shipping lanes and Iran’s nuclear risk via China
• 08:36 – 10:57 | Mao’s legacy, ceremony in Beijing, and America’s muted response
• 11:57 – 13:31 | Economic ties, muted criticism, and the lack of open discourse about China’s past

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Conclusion

Armstrong & Getty, with expert insight from Gordon Chang, provide a sharp, provocative, and historically informed analysis of U.S.-China relations, with particular attention to the danger points of Taiwan and Iran. The episode stands out for its blunt rhetoric, clear-eyed skepticism toward both U.S. and Chinese official statements, and calls for greater honesty and backbone in confronting the uncomfortable realities of global politics and history.

Transcript

[Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Getty]

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[Armstrong]

She wants reunification. He has said this time and time again. He's claimed that it is unstoppable. And look, this has been the position since the inception of the Chinese Communist Party, but it has become an obsession under Xi. He wants the US to stop selling arms, to change its posture and to reduce its support of Taiwan.

[Getty]

Yes. So the scary news so far in the big summit between Trump and President Xi, Xi, the leader of the two biggest economies in the world, the two leaders meeting is that man Xi went there right away on Taiwan. And as you just heard in that report there from CBS News, it has become an obsession of his that Taiwan, the independent country off the coast of China, become part of China. President Xi believes it is part of China and should become a full on part of China. Our position is currently and no, you ain't. But President Xi said to Trump yesterday, if handled poorly, it could lead to conflict and an extremely dangerous situation. I've seen no reporting on how Trump replied to that. Basically a threat from President Xi about don't get in our way if we decide to take Taiwan. So we got that. On a little more the optimistic side, this is just out from the White House. The two sides agreed that the Strait of Hormuz in Iran must remain open to support the free flow of energy. That's good that President Xi said that. Also made clear that China's opposition to the militarization of the strait or any effort to charge a toll or anything like that. And both countries agreed Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. And I hope President Xi means those things. Sometimes he doesn't. Joining us now to discuss all of this, Gordon Chang we've had on the show many times over the years, author and columnist, written a whole bunch of different great books that we've talked to him about. He's a columnist at the Daily Beast. You can follow him on Twitter at Gordon G. Chang. Mr. Chang, welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Appreciate you being here.

[Armstrong]

Oh, well, thank you so much, Jack.

[Getty]

So was that a threat from President Xi on the whole Taiwan thing?

[Armstrong]

Sure it was. And President Trump has responded. We've been told by a White House official, speaking off the record, that there'll be no change in US Policy, which is good. Now, I'd like President Trump to publicly say, look, we're not changing our policy. And actually, I'd like him to say, we're defending Taiwan, because I think at some point we're going to need to do that. But Xi Jinping has just been huffing and puffing, and I think President Trump knows it, and he's just not feeling. And Trump is feeling, well, there's no point in actually opposing him publicly, but the US Will not change its position.

[Getty]

Yeah, that's damned interesting. I mean, because the readout after their first talks, the Communist Party's readout, was basically Xi's threat to Trump, with no indication of how Trump responded. The White House initial White House readout didn't mention the Taiwan thing at all. It just talked about, you know, business relations. So that's interesting that you have an update on that.

[Armstrong]

Yeah, it's. And you can, you know, a lot of people, and there's a whole industry of people who will blame Trump for things he has not done. And. And this is one of them where people are really worried that Trump will sell out Taiwan. Now, he hasn't done it yet, and I don't think he'll do it. And if he does it, we'll criticize him then for it. But until he does it, people should just sort of calm down a little bit. And I think it's important for us to give the president some credit here.

[Getty]

Well, I don't.

[Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Getty]

I don't know what Trump's true thoughts on this, but I don't know that Kamala Harris would have defended Taiwan if she were president or Joe Biden or Barack Obama. I mean, so it's. It's always been kind of an open question, would we actually go to war with China to defend Taiwan if it came down to it? So I don't know where we are.

[Armstrong]

Yeah. And we also don't know where we are as Americans because we have to go back to 1950, where Dean Atchison, who was Secretary of State at the time, publicly drew America's Western defense perimeter that did not include South Korea. So that encouraged Kim Il Sung of North Korea to invade the South. And what did Truman do? President Truman immediately sent troops to defend South Korea. So we don't even know our own mind. Right. But I believe that we would defend Taiwan, because if we didn't, it would be catastrophic.

[Getty]

That's what I wanted to ask you about. Explain to people why that would be a big deal if China was able to make Taiwan part of China in the same way that they did Hong Kong.

[Armstrong]

Okay, first of all, Taiwan makes 92% of the world's most sophisticated semiconductors. So forget about a future with involving microchips. But also, after the catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan, Taiwan has become the test of American credibility and resolve around the world. China, which has been attacking democracies, we cannot allow them to absorb any democracy, especially one as important as Taiwan, because the propaganda would be malicious that the United States was no longer a world power. And Also, since the 1800s, we Americans have drawn our Western defense perimeter off the coast of East Asia. Taiwan sits in the center of that critical line. It protects our allies, Philippines and Japan. We would not be a world power if we allowed China to take Taiwan. And this would be just shameful. Forget about the strategic implications. It would just be shameful if we allowed that to happen.

[Getty]

I agree with all that. And we're all seeing what the Strait of Hormuz has done to the world economy. And China controlling all the shipping lanes in that part of the world would make that look like nothing.

[Armstrong]

Yes, and President Trump deserves a lot of credit because just on April 13, the Pentagon announced a defense pact with Indonesia. The Indonesian island of Sumatra is the southern end of the Strait of Malacca, which is far more important than the Strait of Hormuz to world commerce. So Trump is thinking about these things in a very determined way. So here again, give him credit.

[Getty]

So this is new from the White House, as I mentioned a little bit ago, wondered what your take on this isn't, and this is good news, that President Xi agreed that the Strait of Hormuz, that's the strait with the war in Iran we've been following, must remain open. They don't get to charge tolls, all that sort of stuff. And he agreed. Iran can never have a nuke. That's all good news, right?

[Armstrong]

Well, mostly. And the reason is we need to keep the Strait of Hormuz closed until the Iranians actually give up their nuclear program and their ballistic missiles. And this puts a lot of pressure on China, which we need, not only for Iran, but for other things. And, you know, it's up to us. This is a fault, not just of Trump, but of all his predecessors, going back to Clinton, actually, even before that. Iran has a nuclear weapons program because the Chinese transplanted theirs on Iranian soil. They did that by direct transfers of equipment, material, and technology. But they Also did it indirectly through the AQCON black market network of Pakistan. So, you know, a lot of people blame Trump for this war. Trump knows this. He needs to say it in public that there's a war because China made this war virtually inevitable.

[Getty]

That's really interesting. I was struck yesterday watching the leaders meet and all the kids dance around and everything like that, under the watchful eye of a giant portrait of Chairman Mao that this there in the square. I can't believe that's not more remarked upon about the fact that you have this enormous poster painting, whatever it is, of Chairman Mao, the guy responsible for more deaths than maybe anyone in human history.

[Armstrong]

You're right about that. Mao is responsible for more deaths than any other figure in history. More than Hitler, more than Stalin, more than Genghis Khan. It's just Mao's death toll is enormous. We don't know exactly what it was, but from a number of events, especially the famine following the Great Leap Forward at the end of the 1950s and the beginning of the 1960s was horrific. Mao should have known or knew what was happening, but allowed the famine to continue. And this is something that the United States needs to talk about. You know, the Communist Party maliciously hits us every day with propaganda, except for the two weeks around a visit of an American leader to China or vice versa. But apart from that, you get malicious propaganda every day and the United States needs to hit back.

[Getty]

Yeah, I would like some sort of statement about that. There's the cognitive dissonance thing going on in my brain that we can have Elon Musk and all these people in Trump. Nevermind. We're all smiling, holding hands and the kids are dancing around and. And you got the most evil person in world history looking down on it. Seems like somebody ought to throw out, by the way, that system is currently in place and that's evil. But I guess nobody wants to upset the apple cart, right?

[Armstrong]

And that system has declared the United States to be its enemy. And we need to say that we ignored Osama bin Laden, we're ignoring the Chinese, both believe that they must destroy the United States. Fortunately, we killed Osama bin Laden, but China is still in a position to do that.

[Getty]

Gordon Chang, thanks for joining us today on short notice. I know you're super busy. Everybody wants to hear from you. Find him on Twitter at least at Gordon G. Chang or writing his column for the Daily Beast. Thanks for your time today, really appreciate it.

[Armstrong]

Oh, well, thank you, Jack.

[Getty]

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[Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty

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