Ratchet It Down

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand – "Ratchet It Down" (September 11, 2025)

Overview

This episode of the Armstrong & Getty On Demand podcast, titled "Ratchet It Down," is a somber and deeply reflective discussion focused on the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty guide listeners through coverage of Kirk's life, the reactions to his murder, and the disturbing climate of political extremism and violence in the U.S.

The episode features candid exchanges, commentary on media and political reactions, reflections on free speech, and detailed tributes to Kirk’s legacy as a political organizer, debater, and youth leader. Armstrong & Getty also highlight rising concerns about security, the breakdown of civil discourse, and the influence of online radicalization.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charlie Kirk’s Assassination and Legacy

• Opening Tribute: Jack Armstrong opens the show with a moving tribute to Charlie Kirk, recognizing him as a “martyr for truth and freedom” who represented open debate, liberty, and respect for youth ([00:14]).
• Kirk’s Approach: Kirk is celebrated for welcoming open discussions, especially with those who disagreed with him. Multiple segments feature his debating style—making an effort to clarify his opponents’ views and invite disagreement ([02:57], [14:39]).
• Political Legacy: Praise for Kirk’s rapid success as a political entrepreneur: "Imagine being 31, running a $100 million enterprise… and not becoming brittle, vain or cruel. He didn’t." – Reading from Mark Halperin's tribute ([15:49]).

“He carried success the way a good waiter studiously carries a tray. Steady, attentive and unselfconscious.”
– Mark Halperin via Jack Armstrong ([16:35])

2. Reflections on Political Violence and Radicalization

• Assault on Democracy: Both hosts and guests strongly condemn the violence, warning that Kirk’s death is a dire attack on democratic debate.
• Roots of Radical Violence: Discussion of extremist groups, primarily from the left (e.g., antifa, certain factions of the trans activist movement), as perpetrators or justifiers of violence, supported by current news about slogans found on the shooter’s ammunition ([01:40], [11:33]).
• Rising Rhetoric and Social Media: The show highlights how “the temperature in our country has been steadily rising,” citing Ben Shapiro’s warning about online radicalization and meme-driven anger fueling real-world violence ([27:10]).

"It has already destroyed Charlie Kirk’s family and ended his life at the age of 31. But it feels like a tsunami is coming. The water has already receded from the shoreline, and what comes next could be far more devastating even than what we have seen so far."
– Ben Shapiro, quoted by Joe Getty ([28:43])

3. Media & Political Reactions

• Bipartisan Condemnation: Praise for officials from both parties, including Gavin Newsom’s commendation and broad, serious coverage by major networks ([03:51], [21:22]).
• Unusual Compliments: Even traditionally criticized CNN hosts are acknowledged for their even-handed response.

"It's a reminder... in America, in a democracy, we only have a democracy if we settle our disagreements with words, not with violence."
– Brian Stelter, CNN ([22:12])

4. Free Speech, Debate, and Civic Virtue

• Kirk’s Debate Clips: The show features audio from debates where Kirk pressed opponents to define terms (e.g., “what is a woman?”) and invited disagreement ([07:32]).
• Cultivating Civic Culture: Worry that without a shared commitment to debate without violence, “we are 100% doomed… If you can’t do this on either side, then we’re doomed” ([14:39], [15:49]).

“If we can't have these kind of discussions, then we're doomed. We got no shot.”
– Jack Armstrong ([01:26])

5. Security & the Impossibility of Protecting Political Figures

• Limits of Protection: Dialogue with a security expert acknowledges that full protection (as for the President) is impossible for high-profile activists like Kirk, Ben Shapiro, or AOC ([38:12]).
• Necessity of Cultural Change: “It’s got to be a cultural fix. That’s our only hope.” – Jack Armstrong ([38:16])

6. Gatekeepers, Online Radicalization, and Social Fragmentation

• Past vs. Present: Reflection on the loss of societal “gatekeepers” with the rise of the internet. While decentralized communication seemed promising, it also enabled fringe radicals to organize and amplify their voices ([32:08]).
• PJ O’Rourke Quote:

“Whose idea was it to put every idiot in the world in touch with every other idiot in the world?”
– Cited approvingly by Armstrong & Getty ([33:19])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ezra Klein Praise: "Charlie Kirk was practicing politics the right way." – Paraphrased by Jack Armstrong ([01:26])
• On Radicalization: "There is a systematic attempt on America's campuses from K through grad school to radicalize people in leftist ideology." – Co-host ([24:58])
• On Security: "You can’t have a metal detector for every dang fairground that Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk or AOC… it’s just not doable…" – Jack Armstrong ([38:16])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:14–01:26: Opening tribute to Charlie Kirk; context about the assassination and national reaction.
• 03:51: Praise for Gavin Newsom’s response.
• 05:13–06:34: Sample of Kirk-style political debate with Gavin Newsom (on immigration, youth vote, and sanctuary state debate).
• 07:32–08:23: On-campus debate clips, “what is a woman?”; highlights Kirk’s Socratic method.
• 14:39–15:28: Reflection on Kirk’s debate style and the moral outrage over his murder.
• 15:49–18:50: Mark Halperin’s tribute; personal qualities and achievements of Charlie Kirk.
• 20:25–22:12: Statements from Scott Jennings and Brian Stelter (CNN) on the meaning and fallout of Kirk’s assassination.
• 23:01–24:50: Discussion of radicalization and boundaries between political disagreement, sane activism, and violence.
• 27:10–29:45: Ben Shapiro’s warning: a rising tide of violence and a “tsunami” of political extremism.
• 32:08–33:34: Reflections on the collapse of gatekeeping and the amplification of fringe radicalism online.
• 38:12–39:06: Limits of security measures for public figures; necessity for cultural change.

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Flow & Tone

The episode balances heartfelt tribute, sober analysis, and candid criticism. The hosts are frank about their ideological leanings but emphasize shared values—free speech, civility, and the rejection of violence—as absolutely paramount for American democracy to survive.

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Conclusion

"Ratchet It Down" is an urgent call for Americans—across the political spectrum—to recognize the dangers of escalating rhetoric and violence, and to reaffirm the tradition of open debate and civil engagement embodied by Charlie Kirk. The tragedy is placed in broader context: as a warning against allowing extremism (online or offline) to undermine the foundation of self-government, and as a testament to the irreplaceable role of principled, courageous public voices.

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For more content and coverage, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to Armstrong & Getty On Demand.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at.

[Joe Getty]

The George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty. Charlie was a patriot who devoted his life to the cause of open debate and the country that he loved so much, the United States of America. He fought for liberty, democracy, justice and the American people. He's a martyr for truth and freedom. And there's never been anyone who was so respected by youth. The news is broken that Trump is going to give Charlie Kirk pots to the after he died, the Medal of Freedom, which is the highest civilian honor we can give to anyone. I think it's interesting that the New York Times today, their opinion pieces, they got their conservative. One of their conservatives, David French says if we keep this up, Charlie Kirk will not be the last to die. An assassin took aim at the American experiment itself. That's what Trump said last night. That was an assault on our democracy. That's absolutely true.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah, agreed.

[Jack Armstrong]

And then even the lefty Ezra Klein writes, Charlie Kirk was practicing politics the right way. And basically if we can't have these kind of discussions, then we're doomed. We got no shot.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

And there are extremists on the left who believe merely contradicting their beliefs is reason enough to perpetrate violence or kill somebody. Included in that group is the antifa types, some of the radical, you know, transgender theory people. We've been calling out antifa for years and years because we've been on in Portland for years and years which is kind of the wellspring of antifa. And I remember whether it was Nancy Pelosi or other commentators years ago when Portland was torn apart by violence night after night after night in the wake of George Floyd saying antifa doesn't really exist, it's loosely affiliated, they're not really organized. It's a. And I hope people realize it's real. Now the breaking news is, according to law enforcement sources, the unused ammunition in the gun of the murderer was engraved with various antifa and transgender words, slogans, that sort of thing, where this goes, nobody's quite sure. I, but the fact that Charlie Kirk was who he was and did what he did in the way he did and which was open hearted discussion in the light of day with people who disagreed with him, the fact that he was branded as a hater and perpetrating violence and, and, and justifying his killing for that, I mean, that needs to horrify everyone.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, your, your statement that a lot of the fringe Left thinks anybody who disagrees with them is worthy of violence. This is not a new thought, but I think that is partially because if you lean right, you're, you have the opposing view in your face your whole life, every day. You can't get away from it. If you flip on our National Public Radio or any newscast or watch any movie or TV show or go to any concert, you have to listen to an opinion. You don't agree with the left, you can escape it pretty easily because especially.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

If you're young, unless you're seeking out.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, Rush Limbaugh style radio or Fox News, you're never going to run into the opposing view. So it's probably a lot more shocking to that crowd when you come across somebody that doesn't agree with you.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

I'd like to think I may be in the top five critics of Gavin Newsom on Earth, and I will continue to be that. But he issued a statement about the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk that was unequivocal and well done. And well done, Gavin. Here's a good example of Charlie Kirk and the way he did what he did. Talking to Gavin Newsom on the podcast. We'll start with 110.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Michael, go from there right around, I'd say 20, 21. We had a goal. Could we move the youth vote 10 points over 10 years? And it was literally.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

You sat down and put that numerical together.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Yeah, like, can we move it 10 points over 10 years? Ish. You know, approximate. Because our whole hypothesis was, and we, you know, we did this alongside President Trump and his great team was that this demographic is disproportionately to the Democrat side. We believe Democrats were taking them for granted. We think that your side had no message whatsoever and an ideological monopoly. We saw some of the fault lines there. And to President Trump's credit, he also harmonized with the strategy by going on podcasting and using TikTok. But yeah, I mean, we did it in four years, not 10 large. In part thanks to you guys.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

We'll get to that and sincerely get to that because I want, you know, I want to stress test as some of those fault lines as it relates to the reality of our party and where we are today.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Let'S, let's, that's a sort of hateful conversation though, that should be, you know, snuffed out.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

And here's where they went at it a little bit in clip 113. Michael, let's come on.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

But anyway, if I were to give you somebody advice level stuff, which is you have to go to war with your own party on three major things. You got to say. We are not going to do this illegal immigration thing anymore, which includes, like, are you going to work with ice?

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

We do work with. Okay, so let me, by the way, just.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

I want to show people this.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

We.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

We have been. I, in fact, directly, we actually put out the data. I was. I actually reached out to the administration saying, are you not aware that California coordinates and cooperates with all CDCR releases Over.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Explain the sanctuary state thing. Then what does it do?

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

You get the statewide sanctuary state and.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

You, Governor Brown, not you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

Which in the statewide framework allows us to work as it relates to issues of crim and coordinating the release of criminals from our federal. From our state prison populate prison system. We coordinate with ICE on the deportation. We've done that over 10,000 times since I've been governor. We're not denying access. No, no.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Majority of Americans want mass deportations. It's just the thing.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

Until. Until they don't.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Well, okay.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

That's my humble opinion. Until they don't.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Okay. Someone who's been here 10 years, you might be wrong.

[Governor (likely Governor Gavin Newsom)]

I'm not paying taxes. I don't buy it. But at the moment, you're right.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

You might be right.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

And then he goes on to. To talk about, you know, the transgender thing with children and another issue. Transgender people in sport, boys and girls, sports. Listen to me. Using the language to the left. But that sort of rhetoric, you know, you might be right. That's the hate speech you keep hearing about. Speaking of the whole radical gender theory thing, here's Charlie in one of his feistier debates on campus, in which, if you're not familiar this. He said, if you disagree with me, you go to the front of the line. Let's talk about these things. 100. Michael. He is grabbing it. Is there an issue or are you okay?

[Jack Armstrong]

Michael? Should we call the doctor? Oh, I had to go to the second page. Sorry, guys.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Here we go.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Is an adult female of XX chromosomes. You tell me, what is a woman?

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

I think a woman is somebody who identifies as a woman.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Got it. So that's not a definition. That's like saying a table is something that identifies as a table. Give me an objective definition of a.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, it's not.

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

A table is an object. Well, a table can't identify as anything.

[Jack Armstrong]

It doesn't have a choice.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

You have to give me an objective definition of what a woman is.

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

If I decided right now that I wanted to identify as a woman, I would be a woman.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Okay. But that's not. That doesn't answer the question.

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

I know, but right now I'm a man. Right? So if that happened right now, it would be woman. Once a person makes the decision to identify as a woman or a woman.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

That'S a separate issue. What is a woman?

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

That's the definition.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

No, I know, but you have to.

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

Tell me what a person who identifies themself as a woman.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

But how do you know that they are that thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, you know what?

[Debate Participant (unknown name)]

I don't need to know.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

That's fine. It was funny because they're talking past each other a little bit there, but yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Did Charlie actually not understand the guy was saying? No. The definition is when somebody says they're a woman, then they are a woman.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right. Which is one of his great techniques. Just drawing out the other side and having them explain.

[Jack Armstrong]

I like that. Because what percentage of people agree with that anyway?

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah, here's a little more feistiness 102.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

What's your name?

[Jack Armstrong]

None of your business, unfortunately, but okay.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Hello, nice to meet you. Know your business.

[Jack Armstrong]

Thank you. I appreciate it. So, do you love America?

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Yes, I do.

[Jack Armstrong]

I hate America. I. Every state in the USA should be an independent country. What do you think of this off the mic, dude.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Well, I just first have to ask, since you hate the country, do you plan to leave that?

[Jack Armstrong]

What do you mean by that?

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Do you plan to go live in another country?

[Jack Armstrong]

No, I do not.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Oh, you're an idiot.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

Let me tell you something.

[Jack Armstrong]

Your face is an idiot.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

America is the only country where even those who hate it refuse to leave. That's how you know you live in a great country.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that guy was wearing a mask, by the way. Whoever yelled like a, you're an idiot. Your face is an idiot. I don't know if that helps anything. Oh, boy, man, I heard a clip this morning. I'm sure we've got clips like this, but I heard a clip this morning where somebody was challenging Charlie Kirk on the founding of the country, and he went through a list off the top of his head of, like, the main tenants of the Constitution that was just stunning in terms of memorization and doing it off the top of your head in front of a hostile crowd. I mean, guy was brilliant.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Be true that there was some pro trans extremist stuff and antifa stuff scrawled on the ammunition because that's being reported right now by the Wall Street Journal. If that turns out to be true, where does that take our political discussion? Do you think? How is this reacted to in the, in the main toward.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Well, gosh, the mainstream media is going to have to get dragged along, I hope. Certainly it'll move toward people recognizing who's a violent extremist who is way outside the American tradition in the way they argue their points and the way they describe people who disagree with them. And the activist trans crowd and the antifa crowd are violent extremists and always have been. They're unhinged. Which is not to say every person who identifies as transgender is unhinged. Far from it. But those activist types are dangerous people. I think we have the fabulous clip of Charlie Kirk you were talking about. We can hit that next segment.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, we can get to that. Also, I want to read what Mark Halperin, who is a friend of Charlie Kirk's wrote today is really good. We'll get to that later this hour too.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

I guess that's kind of my question.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

What advice do you have for me.

[Jack Armstrong]

As a Republican aspiring social worker? What would conflict?

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

I don't know, like how to say, say it properly.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

I think I can help. The social work industry is very much about a perspective generally of that people in poverty are there permanently and not trying to break people out of poverty into the middle class or higher levels.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

And that's why the Democrat party and social work are very intertwined.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Exactly.

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

They view poverty not as a series of choices, but as a, as a station in life that is immovable, largely. Is that fair to say?

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

That is fair to say, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's the way he talked to people. He did the what you should do in a charitable debate is try to state the other position, the other person's position in a way that they agree with. And that was one of his techniques. You know, that's what he was doing yesterday. He goes to a college campus. If you disagree with, we move to the front and then we'll have a discussion about whatever your topic is. And then somebody shot him in the throat and killed him. But like I said from the opening moments of the show, it is the most basic bottom level example of what self government is. And if we can't do that, we are 100% doomed. I mean, we just, we. If you, if we can't do this on either side, then we're doomed.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

And that those who would even contemplate or actually murder someone for having an open discussion that they disagreed with, they are the most evil people among us. They are irredeemably evil. And everyone should condemn that very thought, much less the act.

[Jack Armstrong]

So Mark Halpern, I took in his newscast live yesterday. It was after the news had broken, before Charlie Kirk had died. Mark Halpern had had Charlie Kirk on his show the day before. So I mean, it just been hours before he had been with Charlie Kirk and his wife and kids. So he was pretty emotional about it. Anyway, he wrote today in his newsletter some really good stuff and I'll read part of it. Charlie Kirk wore many titles and humbly managed to make each sound plain. Political strategist, public speaker, video podcaster, fundraiser, organizer, lobbyist, builder. When I asked him his profession a few months ago, he said he preferred the unadorned word entrepreneur, as if he were describing a shop on Main street that just happened to scale across a nation and around the world. That was part of his charm. The grand project presented with a straight face and hard working hands. Big undertakings explained in the tone you used to order coffee. What mattered most in the end was his spirit. He was not a hater. Quite the opposite. I have met no one shrewder in politics at any age, and no one better liked in the movement he helped shape. Power so often makes people small, it did not shrink him or make him arrogant. Imagine being 31, running a $100 million enterprise, a Lord in your party's citadel, friends with the President and the Vice President of the United States and a directory of leaders in business and politics, and not becoming brittle, vain or cruel. He didn't. He carried success the way a good waiter studiously carries a tray. Steady, attentive and unselfconscious. If you think you don't know someone under 25 who followed Charlie was connecting with him vividly, you are mistaken. Mistaken. His current ran beneath dorm rooms and group chats, in church basements and county auditoriums, through comment threads and long car rides home. He believed in the old disciplines. Hard work, early mornings, no drugs, no alcohol, very little sleep. He believed populism should be an accelerator, not a wildfire. The spark that moves an engine, not the blaze that consumes the forest. That's very impressive.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And it goes on and on. It's quite long, it's quite good. Maybe I can post that somewhere. Yeah. The fact that he could get the president or the vice president on the phone any time of day he wanted to at age 31, and actually younger than that, when he. When he could, and was still so incredibly, even, even keeled and level headed and committed to his goal, he didn't seem to have a bit of the I want to be the focus, the celebrity in him.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right. Well, we opened the show with a clip that I don't see. We have so much. He was asked how he wanted to be remembered, and he said, for the courage of my faith, My faith is the most important thing to me. And, you know, go ahead, Michael.

[Jack Armstrong]

If you could be associated with one thing. How would you want to be remembered?

[Michael (Guest or Interviewee)]

I want to be. I want to be remembered for courage, for my faith. That would be the most important thing. Most important thing is my faith in my life.

[Jack Armstrong]

So yeah, again on multiple levels this is awful. You've got the young dad with kids who is a nice guy who gets shot to death. That's awful. But on a political level he is not going to be replaced. You can't replace somebody like that. He's a once in a many generation sort of talent and he was taken off the stage by an assassin.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

I like to think that thousands and thousands of young people will try though.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, that's all you can do. We got a lot more on the way. Stay with us.

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[Scott Jennings]

I don't know what's going to happen other than to tell you that this nation is in desperate need of prayer and some kind of an intervention. Because the when you can't, I mean, what was Charlie doing making a speech, engaging in rhetoric, having a debate. That's the bedrock of our nation. And now you can't go out in public and engage in speech. That's the opposite of violence. Speech is the opposite. And so I don't know what's going to happen to Charlie. All I can really think about is his poor wife and those two babies. And so I think the best thing any of us can do right now is just pray for his recovery and pray for their comfort because God help us, we're in a bad place.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Scott Jennings on cnn.

[Jack Armstrong]

I Don't get sidetracked with this. I'll do it after this. So that's cnn. Brian Stelter is a guy on CNN who I often have hated. Hate the things he says against him. Yeah, absolutely hated. But I've been talking a lot about how happy I was about mainstream coverage of this mostly, I mean, like way more than I could remember in a long time where the mainstream media handled this, I think the right way. Like when I flipped on the ABC evening News last night and they took it as seriously as they did and without a lot of the, like, prejudicial winks and nods that, that he had it coming or any of that sort of stuff. And the anchors talking about, yeah, I personally knew him and he was a great guy and just stuff like that. I just thought this was. This is fantastic. And here's Brian Stelter, who I hate on cnn. This is what he said yesterday.

[Brian Stelter]

The prayers are so all consuming right now and bipartisan. Everyone from President Trump and Vice President J.D. vance, the members of the Cabinet, to Democratic leaders like Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, bipartisan condemnation of this act of political violence. It's a reminder, Brianna, that in a country like America, in a democracy, we only have a democracy if we settle our disagreements with words, not with violence. You know, for the liberals, for the anti Trump voices, for the anti Kirk voices out there who feel despair about the direction of the country's politics, the way to address that is through words, not through violence. And so whenever we see one of these appalling crimes, it is disturbing because it cuts to the core of how the American Democracy functions.

[Jack Armstrong]

Means 100%, right?

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah. Well done, Brian. Well done. Well said.

[Jack Armstrong]

And came across this quote yesterday. This is the interesting, complicated thing that nobody's ever quite understood. I just saw Tim Tebow, former NFL player, well known outspoken Christian, who said evil is real and we need to recognize that. And then there's this quote. I don't remember who gets credit for it originally, but Satan does not have to overpower us in order to win the war. He just has to get us to adopt his way of fighting it, which is a good quote.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Sounds CS Lewis ish to me if.

[Jack Armstrong]

It does, doesn't it? If this guy turns out to be completely crazy, which there's a chance of, he could be pretty crazy like the guy the trial is going on this week, the jury selection, the second guy that tried to kill Trump with his gun in the bushes at the golf course. He's nuts.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah, but.

[Jack Armstrong]

We all know that Our rhetoric is hotter than it's ever been. Polls show a higher percentage of people think political violence is okay than have in my lifetime. So how does that whole work with the rhetoric gets out of control, we get further apart politically and then the crazies take that in somehow and act violently.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right, that. That's a tough one. It remains to be seen where this guy was on the scale of completely sane to completely psychotic and. Or if he was just. And this is absolutely a possibility, he was made evil by his ideology.

[Jack Armstrong]

Radicalized.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Radicalized, in short. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's funny, people act as if that sort of thing doesn't happen.

[Jack Armstrong]

It happens all the time.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

It's happened throughout human history over and over again. Yeah. And there is a systematic attempt on America's campuses from K through grad school to radicalize people in leftist ideology.

[Jack Armstrong]

The dude that shot the couple of the Jewish couple in Washington, D.C. that guy wasn't crazy.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

No, he was a pro Palestinian activist.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. And I don't think the guy who shot the United Healthcare CEO, he wasn't crazy. Doesn't seem to be crazy.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

No, he was twisted, no doubt, but he seemed to have a grasp of reality. I'd like to know. I'd like to see a psychological assessment of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people who consider him a hero and have raised money for his defense in spite of his incoherence, his scattered ideology and his murder of a young man who. And a young dad who just happened to be, you know, in a job at a company.

[Jack Armstrong]

But then you got the guy who shot Gabby Giffords, remember that whole story in Arizona, Psychotic. He thought that, what, the government was pushing math on us or something? I don't even remember what his crazy thing was. The guy on the train the other day, that awful, awful story. That person's completely out of their mind. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah, there's not one phenomenon here. Although the one phenomenon, you know, if I was to jump in and interview our discussion or intervene in our discussion, it would be to say, yeah, the completely psycho people. Let's talk about that another time because that one's going to be really tough. But radicalized people who are perfectly rational yet convinced that it is justified that they commit acts of violence, that one we can deal with and we need to start yesterday. Or Ben Shapiro, go ahead.

[Jack Armstrong]

Or even if they still exist, if they don't hear the leaders saying things like, if we lose this election, it's the last election. We'll ever have in this country.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Which is absurd, it's crazy, but both.

[Jack Armstrong]

Sides were saying it leading up to the presidential election. We gotta stop saying stuff like that.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

So, Ben Shapiro writing about the death of his friend Charlie Kirk. Here's one thing we do know. This all has to stop. It's an ugly picture picture that we've seen before. The 60s and 70s were a time of tremendous change in American history and tremendous violence. Political assassinations became commonplace. Bombings and terror attacks were excused by a variety of supposedly great intellectuals, and eventually, America rejected all of it. Now we're watching the same ugly picture reappear as Jack and I were discussing earlier. The difference is that the mechanisms by which ideas spread have changed completely because of the Internet and social media. Now, I don't know that the flowchart looks anything like it did when America said, that's enough violence. We hate it all.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, no, it's a.

[Eyewitness or Event Attendee]

We're.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're in a. Yeah, we're in a completely different spot.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Anyway, he writes, a wave of violence is building. From the assassination of Charlie Kirk to the attempted shooting of President Trump, from murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson to the slaying of two Israeli embassy staffers, all of these acts of extreme violence have found support in the dark precincts of political radicals. The temperature in our country has been steadily rising. And it's been rising because many people have determined their political opponents aren't just opponents, but enemies, threats to their very existence. That determination by fringe actors is often reinforced in the online spaces that prize virality and mirror emotional excess. And then it breaks free from the world of the online into real life with bloody and horrific concepts, consequences. Yes, that phenomenon crosses the political aisle, but to pretend that the phenomenon is distributed equally would be a mistake. The rising tide of violence on the left has become more and more virulent over the course of the last several years. The argument that speech is violence to be met with violence, the argument that opposition to contention amounts to a form of genocide or erasure. The argument that political opponents are moments away from ending our republic outright. These views all trend toward revolutionary violence. And the wave of violence, a wave already breaking on the shore appears as though it is only beginning. It has already destroyed Charlie Kirk's family and ended his life at the age of 31. But it feels like a tsunami is coming. The water has already receded from the shoreline, and what comes next could be far more devastating even than what we have seen so far. That tsunami, if left unchecked, will wash away this entire republic. Then he mentions the heavy, heavy security he's had to have speaking on college campuses, including bulletproof vests and metal detectors and the rest of it because he is threatened so much.

[Jack Armstrong]

I want to talk about security. I talked to a security expert last night about this a little bit. So I was saying earlier about gatekeepers, how we didn't used to have. We used to have gatekeepers in all levels of society and we don't anymore. And I originally thought that was good, but it has turned out not to be. More on that right after this word.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, they can access two way audio to confront the person, trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them off, request rapid police dispatch when needed. All helping to stop the intruder while they're still outside. That is really something.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

There's Charlie Kirk up on the TV speaking at the Republican National Convention. I was in the crowd to see part of that. He spoke at the last three Republican National Conventions. That doesn't seem possible when you're 31 years old, man. It was just from a building an organization standpoint. Even if you left all the politics out of it. Absolutely rock star, stunning, one in a million sort of guy.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

One more quote from Ben Shapiro. It's short. Our America is a robust place of discussion and debate of liberty and rights. But all of that must be undergirded by basic virtue, basic decency, respect for others and yes, reverence for the uniqueness of an America that values speech and deplores violence. Charlie had that reverence and for that he was murdered.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the whole gatekeepers thing. It used to keep the crazies at bay. And obviously it was a lot easier before the Internet. Now I think it's impossible. And that's why I think we might be doomed. I mean, like, actually doomed. Like there's just no way to fix this.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

I wish I disagreed.

[Jack Armstrong]

I remember hearing the story from some people who are old enough to know how media used to work back in the day. Like the guy who ran started National Review. William F. Buckley Jr. Was a big enough voice in the world of Republicans that he could keep anybody from the John Birch Society from ending up on Meet the Press because Meet the Press would take his, like, lead. You don't want them on their crazies. Okay, we won't yet. Gatekeepers that decided what was within the bounds of conversation we should be having in this country. And you had it at all kinds of different levels.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah. And they were imperfect.

[Jack Armstrong]

Absolutely. And they were imperfect enough that I thought when the Internet came along and the gatekeeper started to fall, like, this is fantastic. Except for what has happened is the super crazies on the outside have infiltrated everything. Often become the loudest voices. They're the ones that are willing to shoot you for what you believe. And I don't know how to put them back in their cages.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Yeah, exactly. As PJ o' Rourke put it so brilliantly on our show. Whose idea was it to put every idiot in the world in touch with every other idiot in the world?

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. And make them feel so empowered or make them look so powerful to others.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

And reinforce each other over and over again? Even though, as I was discussing earlier, there might be one person who thinks they're twisted ugly thoughts in a 500 square mile area. But in a country this big, a world that. This big, that could be tens of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people reinforcing each other's evil. I don't know how we bounce back from a bushel full of fruit from the tree of knowledge. I really don't.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I had an interesting discussion about security at these kind of events with an expert that I think you'll find troubling. I wish I had any news that wasn't the fact that most mainstream media, as you just heard from Brian Selter on cnn, including a lot of people that I don't like. Handled this well. Is the only good news I got for you today. That was a good sign. But anyway, JB Pritzker blamed Trump.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

That wasn't great. But he's. He's a bad person.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Right. And fat as Trump would point out. Okay, we got more on the way. Stay here.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jesse (Guest or Contributor)]

Yeah, I know that it's somewhat object of mockery to say thoughts and prayers, but thoughts and prayers for his family. They need it from all of us. And Jesse's right. If they could do this, they are capable of anything. I think that was the message. I believe that was the message. It's really hard to radicalize Republicans. Yeah, you know, it's like we're not the radical type, but if you thought that you were going to shut a movement down, you're going to get a rude awakening. You woke us up.

[Jack Armstrong]

So as is often pointed out, there is a certain truth to fact that we have jobs. So we don't have time to go to all these protests and do all these different things. I mean, there's a.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Certainly families.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, part of that is just age. You get older, you got responsibilities and kids and jobs and. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what he means by woke us the f up. Fighting fire with fire is not the answer. I don't know how we ratchet down. I don't, I'm not sure it's possible. So we'll see on the. Well, I want to play this. So this, this is, this, this sort of clip is making the rounds a lot.

[Eyewitness or Event Attendee]

I was about 20 yards away on Charlie's left. I had gotten there probably just a few minutes before noon. It was, there was thousands of people there. Unfortunately, there was no metal detectors. There was no, I mean there was security by Charlie, but you know, anybody could have shown up with whatever unfortunately. And I, I happen to kind of maneuver my way down close on the side.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So that sort of thing was mentioned like on every newscast that I watched over the last. Since it happened yesterday with the implication or sometimes the state that is just stating that there needed to be more security. It's. And I was talking to a security expert front of mine. It's just not doable. I mean we can, you can do it for the pre. Well, first of all, the President got shot in the head and it's just luck that he didn't die with the most expensive best way of going about it you can come up with. There's no way you can afford 1% of that for every single damn pundit and lower level politician or media person in the country. It just obviously it's just not doable.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right. So the fact that you need it is horrifying. But.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, but any implication that there was no metal detecting. You can't have a metal detector for every dang fairground that Ben Shapiro or Charlie Cook or AOC or whoever maybe aoc, She's a high profile enough congressperson. She probably does have Secret Service protection, I don't know. But, but obviously it just can't happen. So it's, it's got to be a cultural fix. It's our only hope. Now my security expert friend said he noticed from watching the videos and we saw this with our own eyes when we were at the conventions, I think with Ben Shapiro and maybe actually Charlie Kirk, where they got muscle around them, they got big guys that if there's a physical confrontation, these big guys can, you know, protect them and push the people back. But you're not prepared for high power rifles from 600ft away. You can't be.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

No, no. Not on a college campus in the middle of the day. Just a guy saying, hey, let's talk about issues, which is what Charlie did. But it goes back to the theme that there are those who think that speech is violence and violence should be met with violence and it's okay to kill Charlie Kirk, for instance. And that is a disease we must stamp out no matter how long it takes. I mean, we just have to. And we may not be able to, but we have to try.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was looking at some of the worst of social media last night. The fringe weirdos and, and realizing these are probably Chinese bots or Russian bots or Iranian bots. Half of these comments aren't even real Americans.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

Right, True, true. Speaking of real Americans. And I wish we had time to squeeze this in right now, but we don't. We'll do it in hour four. If you don't get hour four, you ought to subscribe to our podcast, Armstrong and Getty on Demand. That way you won't miss anything. But in the aftermath of the horror, forgive me, they interviewed a couple of college kids, and if these had been third graders, I would suggest they should have been held back.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, boy.

[Co-host or Contributor (possibly Joe Getty or another regular commentator)]

It's amazing. It's a bit of a lighter note. We will also get back into the incredibly eloquent words of the governor of Utah, Governor Cox, who delivered a humdinger.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. His political star is rising to take a course. Look at it. If you missed a segment, if you missed a segment, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.