Shark Eyes

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand – "Shark Eyes" Episode Summary

Release Date: July 24, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Podcast Title: Armstrong & Getty On Demand
Episode Title: Shark Eyes

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1. Opening Discussions: Fertility and Demographic Shifts [02:25 – 04:37]

The episode kicks off with a deep dive into the alarming decline in the United States' fertility rate. The hosts, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, highlight a significant societal shift:

• Co-host: “The US Fertility rate slumped to a new low last year. We dipped below 2.1 kids per woman to a new low of 1.6… That is a major change in the structure of society.” [02:25]

Jack extrapolates the implications, linking immigration to demographic stability:

• Jack Armstrong: “Politics are waves. Demographics are the tide, as they say. It strikes me that my little joke about baseball was really, really appropriate because a lot of our great baseball players are immigrants.” [03:10]

The discussion underscores how falling birth rates mirror trends in countries like South Korea, raising concerns about the future workforce and economic growth.

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2. Economic Sentiments and the "NUTS Ratio" [06:14 – 10:48]

Transitioning to economic perceptions, the hosts examine a Fox News poll detailing Americans' views on their financial well-being:

• Co-host: “As recently as 2004, 2/3 of Americans said their personal financial situation was excellent or good. Now it's 39%.” [07:17]

Jack attributes the decline to pervasive uncertainty:

• Jack Armstrong: “I think there's so much uncertainty in the air, whether it's the tariffs… that makes me feel less secure.” [09:30]

They introduce the concept of the "NUTS Ratio", a measure of how many people feel the world is chaotic or out of control:

• Co-host: “All polls are downstream of the NUTS question. Does the world seem nuts to you right now? And I'll bet it's in the 80s, maybe 90% of people would say yes.” [10:21]

This innovative metric aims to encapsulate the general sentiment of instability affecting various aspects of life, from politics to personal security.

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3. Sociocultural Tensions and Personal Security [11:44 – 12:36]

The conversation shifts to sociocultural issues contributing to the "NUTS Ratio." The hosts discuss the pressures of modern identity politics and the erosion of traditional norms:

• Jack Armstrong: “...you have to declare that that 6 foot 4 inch person... is a woman... fear of losing my job...” [11:44]

Their dialogue highlights how these tensions exacerbate feelings of instability and insecurity among the populace.

Additionally, they segue into a promotional segment for Simplisafe, emphasizing the growing concern over personal security in turbulent times.

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4. Personal Anecdote: A Son’s Nighttime Adventure [14:45 – 40:21]

In a more personal segment, the co-host shares a harrowing experience involving his teenage son and an electric dirt bike:

• Co-host: “...he was wearing only underwear... tried to pull it out and it's pitch dark...” [37:08]

This story underscores themes of parenting, responsibility, and the challenges of ensuring children's safety in an unpredictable world. The narrative concludes with reflections on resilience and problem-solving in crisis situations.

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5. In-Depth Analysis: The "Shark Eyes" Case [22:13 – 34:31]

The core of the episode centers on the sentencing hearing of a notorious criminal, dubbed "Shark Eyes," in Idaho. The hosts are joined by Judge Larry Goodman, a retired Superior Court judge from California, to dissect the proceedings and its implications.

Emotional Toll on the Courtroom:

• Judge Larry Goodman: “They're sociopaths. They're incapable of remorse. It's tough for everybody that's in that room.” [23:37]

Goodman discusses the emotional challenges judges face when dealing with heinous crimes and the importance of personal coping mechanisms, such as keeping family photos in the courtroom.

Critique of the Plea Bargain:

• Judge Larry Goodman: “It was outrageous the way that this plea bargain went down... you have to explain to the families why you're taking the death penalty off the table.” [25:53]

Goodman criticizes the handling of the plea bargain, arguing that it deprived families of closure by not allowing the victim's families to understand the perpetrator's motives.

Victims' Families' Perspective:

• Victim's Family Member: “We said what we needed to say. A faceless coward reached the tranquility of six beautiful young people and senselessly slaughtered them.” [21:35]

The family's impassioned statements highlight the profound loss and the need for accountability, which they feel was not adequately addressed in the plea deal.

Judicial Procedures and Oversight: Goodman emphasizes the necessity for transparency and thoroughness in high-stakes cases to maintain public trust and ensure justice is served comprehensively.

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6. Sociological Insights and Political Implications [16:00 – 27:20]

Jack and the co-host delve into sociological research linking millennials' perceptions of economic stagnation to political ideologies:

• Co-host: “Half seems pretty good to me. It. You can't expect that forever, can you?” [17:17]

They reference a study showing a decline in upward mobility, with only 50% of Americans born in 1984 earning more than their parents by age 30, compared to 92% of those born in 1940. This generational disparity fosters a zero-sum thinking mindset:

• Jack Armstrong: “...think it's so interesting. Drawing on decades of IRS data... half of those born in 1984 did not earn more than their parents by age 30.” [17:12]

This economic disenchantment contributes to the rise of socialist ideologies among millennials, as they perceive traditional avenues to success as inaccessible.

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7. Closing Remarks and Future Topics [35:16 – 40:21]

As the episode nears its end, the hosts tease upcoming segments, including:

• Future Discussion: “Gender bending madness. Dem on Dem. Violence Edition.” [40:21]

They also revisit lighter moments and personal stories, maintaining a balance between heavy topics and relatable anecdotes.

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Notable Quotes

• Co-host on Fertility Rates: “We're now what we used to look at with South Korea or various countries and think, oh my God, they are doomed. That's now us.” [03:38]

• Jack on Economic Uncertainty: “Does the world seem nuts to you? That would be a great poll.” [09:47]

• Judge Larry Goodman on Sociopaths: “They're sociopaths. They're incapable of remorse.” [23:37]

• Victim's Family Member: “A faceless coward reached the tranquility of six beautiful young people and senselessly slaughtered them.” [21:35]

• Co-host on Zero-Sum Thinking: “It's a profound misunderstanding of how economies work and a good way to end up miserable the rest of your life.” [17:43]

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Conclusion

In this episode of "Armstrong & Getty On Demand," the hosts navigate a broad spectrum of topics, from declining fertility rates and economic anxieties to intense discussions on a high-profile criminal case. Through engaging dialogue and expert insights, they shed light on the underlying forces shaping contemporary American society, blending hard-hitting analysis with personal narratives.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio.

[Joe Getty]

Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Announcer]

Starbucks this week announced that its pumpkin spice latte will return on August 26th. August. The only pumpkin spice anyone wants in August is pumpkin spice Gatorade.

[Co-host]

No kidding. That's what I thought when I heard that you're bringing back.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, that's no summer flavor, you monsters.

[Co-host]

What do we got coming up later this hour?

[Jack Armstrong]

It's pretty good Mum dummy for mum dummies. Plus Judge Larry Our, our good friend of the Armstrong and Getty show, talking about the Idaho monsters sentencing hearing, the victim impact statements, and the unanswered questions. Why are they unanswered? Stay with us.

[Co-host]

Okay, hold me on. I got a screen capture something that the top app on the App Store now is something new that I'd never heard of. So we'll talk about.

[Jack Armstrong]

Even as the show is being executed, it's still being formed. This is fascinating. Back to you.

[Co-host]

Here are two sets of statistics that are out that are interesting. We won't dwell on this one. We've talked about it a lot. The US Fertility rate slumped to a new low last year. The numbers are just out. Unbelievable. The United States was once among only a few developed countries where the rate ensured that we were having enough kids to like, you know, continue as a society, which is about 2.1 kids per woman. We're now we. We dipped below that. We're now way below it. New low. 1.6 kids per woman is our new. Where we are now. We're now what we used to look at with South Korea or various countries and think, oh my God, they are doomed. That's now us.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's just gonna say we're now South Korea with better baseball teams.

[Co-host]

In the 60s, by the way, when Joe and I were born, it was about 3.5. It's now 1.6. Wow, that is a major change in the structure of society. Like major. You can't even overstate how big a deal that is for them, for the way people, you know, put together their lives, spend their money, the things that you care about.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. Politics are waves. Demographics are the tide, as they say. It strikes me that my little joke about baseball was really, really appropriate because a lot of our great baseball players are immigrants. And that is how the United States population is not only stable, but growing. It's entirely immigration. And that's because that's the only way. If you assume we must have economic growth, which appears to be the assumption of the powerful. Yeah, you got to do it through immigration. And countries like Japan that are extremely uncomfortable with immigration are really. What's the expert? Well, they're doing poorly.

[Co-host]

One more stat on this before I move on to the other stuff. But birth rates are declining for women in all age groups. So it's just across the board. People ain't having kids, as you say, all the time. I don't think you can say this enough because it's so interesting. If this were happening to any other beast, we'd be highly concerned and universal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Science would be fixated on it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, if it were the, the, the vole or some sort of bird or whatever, they just stopped reproducing. We think, holy crap, that's got to be bad. Why animal would just all of a sudden stop reproducing? It's got to be horrible. We need to figure this out. But for humans we're just like, eh, there's a lot on TV and TikTok and what you. You know. Anyway. And having kids is kind of a pain in the ass. So I understand.

[Jack Armstrong]

This mating season we observed that the males were playing video games and stoned and watching pornography of antelopes breeding while the women were screaming angrily in the streets about to antelope rights.

[Co-host]

Or how about the. The male buffalo can no longer get an erection, which is a problem for.

[Jack Armstrong]

A lot of people. Well, in the female buffalo is out of her effing mind.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which we hear from our young male correspondence semi frequently. Dude, you have no idea how crazy it is out here. You talk to a girl for 20 minutes and it's like, holy cow, it's Che Guevara's daughter.

[Co-host]

Oh, somebody was explaining to me the other day about dating on one of your online websites. And. And that's where 60% of people meet now in the modern world. I think they were discussing bumble, the percentage of women who have pronouns in their little. The very top line bio, where you have, like, the most basic stuff, have their pronouns in there and how it's just, you know, for some people, that's an automatic no. So you just go through. No, no, no, no. It doesn't matter what else is on there if you got pronouns in there. So there you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I, I got through third grade, so I know which pronouns to use for you, so I don't need your help.

[Co-host]

Well, obviously it's not. It's an indicator of a lot more. That probably comes with the pronoun package.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, I know that.

[Co-host]

You know, this probably, probably comes with.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was being rye. Rye.

[Co-host]

God. The list of things that come with that package would be a lot.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's a pretty damn good indicator, as you say. I mean, it's like really helpful.

[Co-host]

Maybe not, though.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're one of those. I don't know.

[Co-host]

I was thinking about that. Maybe not, though. It could, it could be. I just thought you were supposed to do this, so I did. And it doesn't really include a deep belief in that sort of thing, but it might. And is it worth taking the chance?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I would say the lads plying those waters these days have decided to use that as an indicator so they would know better than me. But I don't know.

[Co-host]

So I want to get to this. This is so you can feel superior or inferior to others, which is really, you know, what, what, What a great H that is.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes.

[Co-host]

Fox new poll, News poll. Highly respected polling organization. Percentage of people rating their personal financial situation as excellent or good. So think for yourself. Do you feel like your financial situation is excellent or good? I feel like it's kind of interesting that the highest number they ever had and they. I don't know how many years they've been asking this question. Probably not that long. But the highest number was June of 2004, right before the crash. 62% of Americans describe their personal financial situation as excellent or good. Almost two thirds. That is something, isn't it?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I'm casting my memory back to those days. Yeah, that's. That's interesting.

[Co-host]

The low had been. The low came almost exactly 20 years later in May of 2023. 34%. So that had been Coming out of COVID all the inflation, everything else.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yes, right. Yeah.

[Co-host]

34. So half as many people saying excellent or good. Then in May of 2023, you may.

[Jack Armstrong]

Recall economist Joe Getty saying at the time, if inflation is high, nothing else matters.

[Co-host]

Yeah. We've crawled out of that to a certain extent. Not a lot. The most recent numbers are from March of 2025. It must take a while to compile these. At 39%, 39% of people say good or excellent. That's not very high. Not even good. You don't even consider your personal financial situation good. That's not that. That's not good.

[Jack Armstrong]

In the markets. And many Americans are invested, whether through 401ks or whatever in the markets. The markets are insanely high right now.

[Co-host]

All right. Records every day. Yeah. What did you have a. You know, this is all an emotion is not all, but a lot of it's an emotional reaction as opposed to a specific nuts and bolt, don't you think? Specific, documented. If you sat down with your numbers, you would say, I'm behind or ahead or whatever. Isn't it an emotional feeling? So why do you think it's so low currently?

[Jack Armstrong]

Uncertainty. I just think there's so much uncertainty in the air, whether it's the tariffs.

[Co-host]

Or the world seems nuts, that makes me feel less secure.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah. Just in general, that's the question they ought to ask. Does the world seem nuts to you? That would be a great poll.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And if the NUTS ratio is. Or the nuts, what we refer to as the NUTS curve, if it reaches a certain point, I think you have to interpret virtually every number through the NUTS filter.

[Co-host]

We have discovered something that we need to put a name on. This is so clearly true. All polls are downstream of the NUTS question. Does the world seem nuts to you right now? And I'll bet it's. I'll bet it's in the 80s, maybe 90% of people would say yes. All for different reasons.

[Jack Armstrong]

Some because this is momentous. We have actually come up with an idea that matters.

[Co-host]

Yeah. We got to get to somebody. We got to trademark this. We need to get some PhDs involved in crafting the question and the analysis.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't want any PhD, but. Oh, just for the technical stuff, I.

[Co-host]

Think this is absolutely true. It explains all the other numbers that sometimes you're like, like, why is that number that. It's because 90% of people think the world is nuts right now.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Which might actually be pretty accurate. Again, some people thinking because of Trump. Some people think because of the forces aligned against Trump. Some people think because maybe me, too many people are focused on Trump or whatever reason. The world is nuts right now.

[Jack Armstrong]

How about the sociological stuff though? All of a sudden I'm supposed to declare that that 6 foot 4 inch person right there with an intact penis and testicles is a woman. In fact, I'm ordered to say that at fear of losing my job in some quadrants of society that you don't walk out of a situation like that. And there are folks listening right now who have been in that situation. They have to take the knee and have to declare yes, that's a woman or their career is derailed. You're not coming away from a scenario like that and then saying on the other hand, my finances are great and I'm feeling good about everything. No, it's profoundly disturbing. Which factors into the nuts graph?

[Co-host]

Sure. Or the media landscape or the couple of wars that's going on. Or the fact that we now recognize China is such an enemy. Or all these different things factor into the youth feel like the world is nuts.

[Jack Armstrong]

So how about progressives turning criminals loose from prisons because of some bizarro notion that threatens your security? That's a little nuts. And simply save home security. Our good friends and sponsors are here to help you with that.

[Co-host]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Co-host]

I'll just say it one more time and then we can, we can take a break and get to your mom dummy for mum dummies.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is that what you're that's correct Jack, yes.

[Co-host]

As recently as 2004, 2/3 of Americans said their personal financial situation was excellent or Good. Now it's 39%. Your politics coming out of that will be powerful. No doubt about it. Here's our text line if you want to comment on any of that. 415295 kftc armstrong and getty time for a sofa upgrade.

[Joe Getty]

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[Co-host]

God Doesn't Want Me to Sleep. A text I got from my son as I was just about to drift off to sleep.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, he texted me.

[Co-host]

Hope you're not asleep yet, dad. And it all unfolded from there. And it was many hours before I laid back down in bed. More on that later.

[Jack Armstrong]

Coming up, we'll talk to Judge Larry Goodman about the sentencing hearing of the subhuman scum in Idaho. But first, it's Mom Dummy from Mum Dummies.

[Co-host]

I feel like you're too. I feel like you're too proud of this.

[Jack Armstrong]

I am enjoying it a little bit. Yes. I found this so interesting. It's some economic analysis by a fellow by the name of Ryan Salaam. But one of the most important things to understand about mum Dami, the 33 year old socialist who stunned the political establishment, blah blah blah, Democratic, mayoral, New York, blah blah blah. As he has spent his young adult life much worse off than his parents, he knows the sting of having grown up in bourgeois comfort only to find himself scrambling to pay the rent in a less fashionable neighborhood. That experience is a major reason why he's emerged as the darling of the millennial left, a movement defined by its sense of downward mobility.

[Co-host]

Was it a fact that he didn't have a job? The reason he was struggling because I haven't heard him about him having a job. Really?

[Jack Armstrong]

So his dad was a tenured professor, is at Columbia University and a prominent left wing intellectual. And his mom was a renowned Indian filmmaker. Indian or similar. I mean, her. Her directorial debut was Salam Bombay. Exclamation point.

[Co-host]

So mom's an artist.

[Jack Armstrong]

Released to global acclaim when she was 31 years old. So she is a monster talent in that, you know, area of cinema.

[Co-host]

But if mom's an artist and Dad's a Columbia professor, you're gonna end up with a certain kind of kid.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, no kidding. But anyway, that whole. Well, he's less successful than his parents, therefore. It sounds like an apparent opinion. But this is the interesting part. Drawing on decades of IRS data, researchers at Opportunity Insights and Economic Policy Institute found that among Americans born in 1940, 92% earned more than their parents at age 30. Wow. That is 92%. For those born in 1984, only 50% did. And that decline has political consequences.

[Co-host]

Half seems pretty good to me. It. You can't expect that forever, can you?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, if you've come from, you know, three, four consecutive generations, where, yes, absolutely you can. Sociologically, that's a huge change. But here's the data. A little more data before we get to analysis.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

Researchers at this economics lab found a strong correlation between perceiving yourself to be less well off than your parents and zero sum thinking. Or the belief that gains for some people come at the expense of others.

[Co-host]

Oh, right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which is a profound misunderstanding of how economies work and a good way to.

[Co-host]

End up miserable the rest of your life.

[Jack Armstrong]

And socialist or communist, which more often.

[Co-host]

You'Re miserable for the rest of your life.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes. Yeah, no kidding. Roughly 40% of the nation's 72 million millennials, that's folks born between 81 and 96, live in high cost, hyper competitive metropolitan areas where milestones such as owning a home or paying off student loan debt can loom as distant dreams. So they really perceive themselves to be worse off than their parents, who talked about buying their first house at 27 or whatever. Between millennials who are worse off than their parents and those who believe they're worse off and those who live in dysfunctional blue state metros where house hunting can feel like the Hunger Games. America has a critical mass of people whose expectations of intergener progress have Gone sour. And therefore they think it's a zero sum game. And if Mumdani promises he's gonna take from them, they're like, good, because that's the only way I can get ahead. I found that really interesting.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Well, yeah, the, the mindset of if I don't have much, it's somebody else's fault is God again. Talk about dooming yourself to misery for the rest of your life.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right in the extension that the only way that I can gain is if somebody else loses.

[Co-host]

And then the other part of if you have very successful parents or your dad's successful or whatever, do you have to surpass them? If you don't surpass them, you've failed. Somehow that seems unrealistic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, you're arguing with human psychology. I think you might be right and people would be wise to adopt that point of view. But I mean, that's just not the way people are. A couple more stories that we don't even have time for, but AOC and Mumdani and the like are raking in cash as the rest of the party flounders. The radical left is where the money is right now in terms of fundraising, which is the only reason politicians get up in the morning.

[Co-host]

Yeah, well, I got some easy analysis of that I think we'll get to later.

[Jack Armstrong]

And then the final thing that I really wanted to get to. Socialist Zoran Mamdani proposes government owned supermarkets for New York City. Kansas City has tried this and it is flopped. It is a miserable failure.

[Co-host]

I can't believe Kansas City tried it. I want to hear more about that.

[Jack Armstrong]

I got it for you anytime.

[Co-host]

Wow. Okay. We got a lot of really good stuff today. I don't know how that happened, but stick around. It's going to be fantastic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

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[Co-host]

I made eye contact with him, and he was enraged. He was just enraged. So, you know, mission accomplished. You know, we can move on now.

[Victim's Family Member]

We said what we needed to say. A faceless coward reached the tranquility of six beautiful young people and senselessly slaughtered them.

[Jack Armstrong]

Four of them.

[Victim's Family Member]

The person that slithered through that sliding glass door at 1122 King Road now stands before the world and this court unmasked. No parent should ever have to bury their child. In my view, the time has now come to end Mr. Coburger's 15 minutes of fame.

[Co-host]

So that's the judge in the hearing, the sentencing hearing yesterday from the scumbag up in Idaho, and that was a dad before that.

[Jack Armstrong]

So that the judge could barely get through that screed without breaking down the crimes. So horrific and needless and idiotic. To discuss the hearing in several different ways, we're joined by Larry Goodman, retired judge for the Superior Court in California. Larry, it's always great to talk to you. How are you?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.

[Jack Armstrong]

Of course. Yeah. Thanks for being here. So any general impressions from the hearing? What's it like to be in a courtroom with a monster like that? What's it like for the families to finally speak their piece? Any thoughts?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, it's. It's always emotional. Sometimes there's not a dry eye in the house. Judges have certain ways to deal with that. I used to keep a bunch of pictures on, on my bench that I could look at to try to get out of the emotions. But it's tough because you're in there with pure evil. And generally people like this guy, they have, we used to call shark eyes. There's no spirit, there's no soul. And, you know, they can say things to him and they may think that they're impacting him, but people like that are sociopaths. They're incapable of remorse. And it's. So it's good catharsis, catharsis for the family members to speak, but it's. It's just tough for everybody that's in that room.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I got some questions about that. But before we do, I think listeners probably had the same question I do. What do you mean by you had pictures sitting there in the courtroom you would look at to try to get over your emotions?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I would have family pictures. I would have pictures of Katie, my wife, places we've been, and I kept them on my blotter on my bench. And because most of the cases I did were homicide cases and a fair amount of death penalty cases. And sometimes you just need to go to your, what I guess to call your happy space where you're still listening, you're still there, but you need some emotional anchor to kind of hang on to while you're dealing with this stuff.

[Jack Armstrong]

That'S interesting because it's so incredibly heavy. Yeah. So it was cathartic for the families, no doubt. And honestly, anybody who is horrified by the crimes enjoyed hearing the sub human scumbags lectured and the rest of it. But I know we correspondent last night and you had some, you're kind of dissatisfied with how some of this played out. Tell us about that.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, first of all, I wrote notes when it happened, but it was outrageous the way that this plea bargain went down. I mean, when you deal a case of this magnitude and you're the prosecutor, you call each family member into the office or you arrange a place to meet with them and you sit down with them and you explain to them in detail why you're taking the four victim homicide case, it's a death penalty case, and pulling the death penalty off the table. And if you need to, you go talk to the judge and explain to the judge why you're doing it and you enlist the judge to be part of that meeting, with the defense attorney's approval, of course, to explain to this family, each family member, why you're doing this. Because this is like a monumental decision to make and to just send them a notice saying that you've made that decision. Not that they necessarily have veto power, but they certainly have a right to express their pleasure or displeasure in the decision making process.

[Jack Armstrong]

Interesting. So they are indeed part of the team that ought to at least have input on making that decision.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Right. I mean, by the way, we're not going to seek the death penalty for the guy that killed your daughter. End of, end of statement. I mean, why? Tell me why.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

And let them vent then. Let them start the cathartic process by venting their displeasure with that decision. But they need to be included from the very get go as to why. And you need to tell them why. Is there a weakness in the case that we're concerned about? Was there something that happened at the crime scene that leads us to think that maybe one juror might latch onto that? You know, they talk about, well, you waived all appeals. There's no such thing. As an appellate proof decision, you know, you can always say, I am appealing because the lawyer who gave me the advice to waive my appeal was incompetent. So down the road, there's always that issue. So you need to have a. You need to have a reason. And then the second part that was so disturbing is if you buy into the plea bargain. Part of the plea bargain. If you want us to take death off the table, then you stand up in open court and tell us why you did it. Tell us where the murder weapon is, and then we'll take the death penalty up. Almost every person I heard talk about this yesterday. Talked about, well, we'll never know why he did it. Well, you might have been able to find out why he did it if you made that part of the deal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Michael, play US clip number 74. One of the victim's sisters.

[Victim's Family Member]

Where is the murder weapon? The clothes you wore that night. What were Kaylee's last words? If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now? If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep, in the middle of the night, like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your ass. Thank you.

Thank you.

[Jack Armstrong]

So can you even guess, your honor, why they wouldn't have demanded that sort of. Those sort of answers? Was it that they had a weak bargaining position? Was it incompetence? I mean, we don't know. But what's your. What's your theory?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I don't have a theory. I mean, it's beyond. I don't understand why you. You have all the leverage. You've got the death penalty. Now, granted, people don't get executed for years after that's imposed, and there are appeals, but you've got that kind of leverage, and you got to try to use that leverage to find out, even though he pled. And people are going to move on. This family, every family member is always going to wonder, why did he kill my daughter? Why did he kill my son? Why did he do what he did? Where is the murder weapon? What happened to the knife? And those are things that people live with forever. And they had an opportunity to make that part of the deal. He says, well, I'm not going to stand up and tell you why I did it. You say, fine, then we're going to seek the death penalty. I mean, it's a bargaining. I hate to say it, but. The art of the deal. But sure, if that's what you do. Because now you. You have all the leverage. The minute you take the death Penalty off the table, you've lost all your leverage. He has no incentive whatsoever to ever tell you that. The other thing that's interesting is they waived the pre sentence report to have him sit for an interview with a probation officer. And maybe they find out something why he did it during that interview. But they both sides waived the pre sentencing report, so I don't understand that either.

[Co-host]

So, so I'm surprised that these scumbag murderers care about the death penalty that much. Do most of them want, want to push really hard to stay alive? I mean, he's gonna live the next 40 years in a, in a cell alone. I mean, I just don't get it.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, they're really, you know, depending on the state there, the death penalty, the actual punishment is so far removed from the crime sentencing that whatever effect it has on the defense is minimal. They used to be in California where at least they had death row and they were segregated. They had minimal privileges and they've done away with that. So now they're scattered all throughout the prison system and they get pretty much the same privileges as anybody else does. So.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

And then they changed the law too. I mean, every now and again you sentence somebody's death and then they change the criteria or do something else and then all of a sudden it's not death eligible.

[Co-host]

But is your, your sense that. Because you talked about the guy having shark eyes and being a sociopath or psychopath or whatever, and that's what he looks like to me. But most of those people want to stay alive though.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I think so. I mean, there's a self preservation. They, they're full of bravado when they're in the courtroom. And I've had defendants stand up and say, you can kill me, but you can't kill my soul and all that kind of stuff. And, but I, deep down inside, I think that they get a little bit of a pucker factor when they actually think about being put to death.

[Jack Armstrong]

Sure. Judge Larry Goodman is on the line, retired judge for the superior court in California. Speaking of this sub scumbag's future, what do you know about where he's going to be held and what his life in quotes is going to be like?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, I think it's, he'll pretty, I think he'll probably spend a lot of time in segregation because I think there's probably a fair number of inmates that are already serving life terms that would probably want to earn some creds in the prison by killing him and, or, and, or beating him to a pulpit four or five times. So he's not going to have a pleasant stay and he's not going to be able to intermingle with a whole lot of other inmates because what he did is kind of breaks the rules for even being a criminal or a murderer. So I know it won't be a pleasant stay, but. And I think he'll spend most of.

[Jack Armstrong]

His time by himself, so I think that's interesting. Just sociologically, if I get into a beef with a guy over drug territory or just a personal thing or whatever, and I gun him down and I'm in prison for life, I have a very different status than somebody who sneaks into a house at night and slaughters young people for giggles.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it sounds kind of weird, but there are rules in criminals, in crime and in the criminal elements. So if you commit what anybody would call a generic murder over drug territory or even a robbery for that matter, you have a whole different status in prison than if you're do what this guy did, or if you're a pedophile or a child rapist or something like that. There are consequences in the. If you ever should accidentally end up in general population.

[Co-host]

So I was wondering about. You said it was a cathartic experience for the family members to be able to, you know, say their piece to this loser. Is there any legal reason to do that? I mean, if they opted not to do that, would that, Would that hurt their. Hurt them in any way, legally?

[Judge Larry Goodman]

You mean the family members?

[Co-host]

Yeah, the family members. They said if I didn't want to do that.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

No, they don't have to. I. I've done cases where the family members choose not to, or maybe they assign one family member to speak for the whole family because the rest of them don't feel comfortable doing it or can't do it, so. Yeah, but there's no downside that they choose not to do it, except maybe internally and emotionally.

[Co-host]

It wouldn't affect the sentencing any.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

No, no. The set. In a deal like this, the sentence is already predetermined. I mean, there's a. There's no. There was no leeway for the judge to do anything other than what he did, because that was part of the deal.

[Co-host]

Interesting.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Actually, one of the families declined. They said, no, we're through with this. It's. This is the closure we need.

[Co-host]

So.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Well, Judge.

[Co-host]

Larry.

[Jack Armstrong]

Go ahead, Larry.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

Well, just being in the same room with his POS is maybe more than people, you know, some family members wanted to deal with, you know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it would be Very, very hard to contain my natural animal urges.

[Co-host]

There's all kinds of different people, different people to have different emotions. I'd feel to a certain extent like I'm giving him what he wants, that I'm upset. Just. I don't even care enough about you to show up, you loser.

[Jack Armstrong]

Judge Larry Goodman. Judge, it's always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for the insight.

[Judge Larry Goodman]

I appreciate the time. Thanks so much guys. Talk to you. So you got it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Sounds good sets though.

[Co-host]

There's a lot of interesting stuff there. Shark eyes. That's that he. That's what he had. Man, who knows what's going on in the head of a crazy person like that? We'll never figure that out.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think even a normal person, that circumstance is going to shut down emotionally and well.

[Co-host]

And he's clearly not a normal person.

[Jack Armstrong]

So no, I think honestly he might well be a sociopath. Psychopath. Whatever. The one thing he is is mind bogglingly selfish. Which probably makes him a sociopath, right? To decide to see if he could get away with something and it be the slaughter of four human beings. I mean, if you want to see if you can get away with a burglary because you're so damn clever, that's an idiotic idea. But all right.

[Co-host]

How about the pecking order thing though? I mean, some of it I get, but the. So you robbed me on the street and I ended up dying. That's justifiable or okay as part of our world, but the sneaking into the house, killing them is not. I mean, I don't find either one of them great.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, maybe we can get into that down the road.

[Co-host]

Wow, that is something else. Interesting stuff though. What a great guest. Stay here.

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[Announcer]

Authorities in Australia arrested a man last week for allegedly stealing 53 right shoes from a shoe store. The suspect was very cooperative in reportedly greeting the police, saying arrr.

[Co-host]

Ye got.

[Announcer]

What gave me away?

[Co-host]

Peg leg. Is that the joke? I get it.

[Jack Armstrong]

He had a peg leg is why. Wow.

[Co-host]

Boy. So I been running on a deficiency of sleep like I have been doing most of my adult life, which is probably going to cut my longevity by a decade or more. I will drop dead from not getting enough.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hell of an opening.

[Co-host]

But last night I was going to really, really, really, really, really strive to get to bed early. And I had accomplished it. I am in time. Did I send my text, my this text? 8:29. I mean that's two hours before I usually get to bed or more. I send my son. I knew where Henry was, my 13 year old, he was in the house and my 16 year old's out and about like 16 year olds. He's going to be 16 soon. So I text him, I said, I'm going to bed. He text back in all caps. No. Oh, I just got the Talaria very stuck. That. That is an electric dirt bike that he rides around. I almost crashed him in deep ass mud. I texted back, I'm sure you can get it out. He said, I've been trying for 30 minutes and it's getting dark. So I laid there for a little bit and I thought, okay. So I tried to figure out where he was. He's out in this field. It was completely dark. It was very hard to find him. He was wearing only underwear at this point because he was wearing some of his. Really is where he's wearing some of his good jeans and good shoes. And he was in so much money taking off his clothes to keep from ruining them. The motorcycle's completely buried. I mean like just the top of the seat and the handlebars sticking out in this mud.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my gosh.

[Co-host]

Right? And he'd been trying to pull it out and it's pitch dark and we got a flashlight and I'm, you know, waiting for the cops to show up because we're someplace we probably shouldn't be. Anyway. Anyway, so I'd spend a lot of time digging that thing out and pulling it out and getting it loaded up in my truck, pushing it like a half a mile and then getting it loaded in my truck. And then we went to car wash and I washed it off. I washed him off. I hosed him off with the car wash wand like a circus, like a circus elephant in the car wash as he stood there in his underwear. And then I went to bed two and a half hours later than I was expecting. But I did say to him, I said. He said, I can't believe this happened. This is one of the worst situations I've ever got into. And I said, you know how many times I've done something like this in my life? Roughly 100. I said, it's just a thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. And you know what? Kudos for giving the kid enough, you know, enough leash to get into trouble and figure out how to get out of it and the rest of it. Because you know, he will run into panic inducing situations down the road and think, you know, this reminds me of the whole motorcycle in the mud thing. All right, if I can deal with that, I can deal with this.

[Co-host]

As I was getting it out of there, I thought, how many times, Jack, have you done this sort of thing in your life? Although I was telling him about pre cell phone, when I got myself into messes like this, you were walking a long way because there was no getting a hold of anybody.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I'm reminded of myself walking a couple of miles on hockey skates with blood streaming down my face after a similar incident. Anyway, more to come. Next hour, Gender bending madness. Dem on Dem. Violence Edition. Armstrong and Getty. This is an Iheart podcast.