She's The Queen Of A Dumb Person Trying To Sound Smart

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "She's The Queen Of A Dumb Person Trying To Sound Smart"
Date: April 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand dives into two principal themes:

1. A sharp, detailed critique of how Western media and politics refuse to acknowledge the religious roots of current Middle East conflicts—particularly Iran and its proxies—arguing these are fundamentally holy wars misunderstood or misreported in the West.
2. A lively interview with Tim Sandifer about his new book, Proclaiming Liberty: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and the Declaration of Independence, unpacking the founding era, the roles of Adams and Jefferson, and the enduring legal and philosophical significance of the Declaration.

Throughout, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty bring their trademark candor, skepticism, and humor, plus the show’s signature willingness to challenge mainstream narratives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current Middle East Conflict Is a “Holy War”—and Western Media Won’t Admit It

[03:08–16:19]

• Jack delivers a pointed summary of a Yardena Schwartz article, positing that the conflict with Iran and its proxies is a decades-long religious war, not just geopolitics, oil, or regional squabbling.
• The West’s reluctance to frame the struggle as a “holy war” is called out, with Jack arguing that honest discussion about the religious ideology fueling Islamist aggression is urgently needed.

Notable Quotes & Analysis

• "[The American left] likes to bellow about theocracies and then criticizes the US when we try to take an evil, evil theocracy down." (Jack Armstrong, 03:26)
• Schwartz: Fundamentalist Islamists will “never, ever, ever rest while Israel exists... The existence of Israel is, is an insult. It’s a refutation of the trueness of Muhammad's words.” (Paraphrased by Jack, 08:49)
• Description of Iranian regime goals: “Iran has never hid its ambitions. It has openly and proudly established, funded, armed and trained Islamist proxies throughout the mid for decades.” (Jack, 09:56)
• On media censorship: “During those years, I experienced firsthand the voluntary censorship of stories and even elements of stories that illuminated the religious nature of this conflict.” (Schwartz via Jack, 13:34)
• “They don’t want good, nice Muslims who just want to make a living and raise their families to be put on the other side of some sort of global conflict. I understand that impulse, but it’s gone way too far. Way too far. Beware hiding the truth...” (Jack Armstrong, 15:13)

Key Insights

• Media bias and omission: The hosts argue that deliberate omission and “voluntary censorship” by major Western news outlets (including removing explicit religious motivations from coverage) have distorted public understanding of the conflict.
• Clarity on ideology: The struggle is not merely regional or national, but is rooted in fundamentalist Islamic ideology seeking to “export Islamist ideals, weaken the west and eliminate Israel.”
• Long historical arc: The conflict’s roots go back to Iran’s 1979 Islamic Revolution, and it is maintained via groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Houthis, who are all explicitly religious in their aims.
• The dangers of euphemism: Watering down the religious motivation and framing these groups simply as “terrorists” underplays the centrality of ideology.

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2. Political Rant: Kamala Harris as “Queen of a Dumb Person Trying to Sound Smart”

[19:03–20:35]

The episode’s title comes from a segment satirizing recent remarks by Vice President Kamala Harris in conversation with Al Sharpton. Jack critiques her communication style and substance.

• Quote:

  • “She is one of the most annoying people I have ever encountered. For real. Class A moron. She may be the queen of a dumb person trying to sound smart and intellectual.” (Jack Armstrong, 20:04)
  • “In the context of the globe and the world... Both the globe and the world.” (Mocking Harris, 20:27)

• Joe Getty quips: “If you’re ever feeling like a dumbass, just listen to something she said and you’re like, okay, I’m not that bad.” (20:25)

• The segment acts as comic relief but also offers a critique about the superficiality of certain political rhetoric.

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3. Continuation: Western Media’s Framing of Middle East Events

[20:35–22:41]

• Jack points to “strangely fawning obituaries” for Iran’s supreme leader in Western outlets like The New York Times and Washington Post, chiding them for whitewashing his pursuit of Islamic domination.
• Coverage of Israeli strikes on Hezbollah is criticized for missing the “continuation of the same war” driven by religious motives.
• Jack previews an interview on the Declaration of Independence, drawing a parallel between America’s foundational principles and their rejection by radical Islamist groups.

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4. In-Depth Interview: Tim Sandifer on the Declaration of Independence

[25:55–47:32]

With guest Tim Sandifer (Goldwater Institute), the hosts explore the legal, philosophical, and personal history behind America’s founding document.

Major Segments

"Biography" of the Declaration

• Sandifer’s book tells the story of the Declaration through the friendship and political work of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
• Quote:
  “I tried to tell the story of the Declaration of Independence...in the context of the...controversies that were going on at the time, which I think a lot of people don’t know about.” (Tim Sandifer, 26:41)

Misunderstandings About the Revolution

• Rebuts the myth the Revolution was about “a little three penny tax on tea.”
• Real issue was Parliament’s overreach and refusal to respect colonial self-governance.
• Adams and Jefferson’s collaboration, and willingness to argue and compromise, is highlighted.

Declaration as Legal Foundation (Not Just Rhetoric)

• Sandifer cites Jefferson: “The Declaration was the fundamental act of the union of these states.” (33:11)
• Criticizes the view (even among some conservative justices) that the Declaration is not law.
• Quote:
  “The Declaration of Independence is the cement of our union... it is the basic law. It’s the frame in which the Constitution exists.” (Tim Sandifer, 34:40)

Jefferson, Adams & Drafting the Declaration

• Jefferson chosen for his skillful writing and deep legal knowledge—was, according to Sandifer, more of an “appellate lawyer," while Adams was a “trial lawyer” (loved to argue in person).
• Adams contributed specifically to passages about colonial legislatures’ rights.

Slavery and the Declaration

• Jefferson included a forceful condemnation of slavery in his draft, later removed by southern and some northern delegates.
• Quote:
  “Jefferson had written this long denunciation of the king [over slavery]... Adams loved it...but the other delegates...would not allow that in there.” (Joe Getty/Tim Sandifer, 45:09)
  “Jefferson was very much against slavery. The problem was later in life he just gave up on the issue when he really shouldn’t have.” (Tim Sandifer, 46:23)

On Teaching the Founders and Slavery

• Armstrong decries modern distortions about Jefferson’s stance:
  “Did you hear that? Products of America’s beleaguered, perverted public schools? Jefferson hated the institution of slavery.” (Jack Armstrong, 44:56)

• Mention of resources for further reading (Arguing About Slavery by William Lee Miller recommended).

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5. Tease for Next Hour

[47:32]

• Next episode will feature Gordon Chang on China, perceived U.S. softness, and China’s activities during Middle East upheaval.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:08 — Opening news and context: Iran and the Strait of Hormuz.
• 05:25 — Yardena Schwartz piece begins: conflict as holy war.
• 12:32 — Schwartz’s personal experience with media censorship.
• 15:13 — Armstrong’s broader warning: dangers of hiding truth about religious extremism.
• 19:03 — Kamala Harris/Al Sharpton segment and title reference.
• 20:35 — Critique of Western media coverage of Iran, Hezbollah, and Israel.
• 25:55 — Tim Sandifer interview: context, philosophy, and law surrounding Declaration of Independence.
• 44:31 — Slavery in the Declaration; why Jefferson’s condemnation was cut.
• 47:32 — Wrap-up; tease of next hour ("hour four") with Gordon Chang on China.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jack Armstrong:

  • On media: “The media is unforgivably terrible and biased and stupid and I hate them.” (About El-Sayed coverage, 03:46)
  • “If I hide the truth, that always leads to a bad place, including a situation where only radicals are willing to speak the truth.” (15:44)

• Joe Getty:

  • Satirizing Harris, echoes: “In the context of the globe and the world. The world. Both the globe and the world.” (20:27)

• Tim Sandifer:

  • “Jefferson was very much against slavery. The problem was later in life he just gave up on the issue when he really shouldn't have.” (46:23)

• Jack Armstrong:

  • “Everything is downstream of culture. Everything.” (32:30)

• On the Declaration as Law:

  • “Justice Barrett...said, no, [the Declaration is not law] and that's completely wrong. Of course it's part of our law...” (33:37–34:40)

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Tone & Style

• Direct, irreverent, opinionated: Hosts don’t shy away from sharp criticism, whether about politicians, the media, or received wisdom on history/politics.
• Conversational & humorous: Even during serious topics, frequent asides, sarcasm, and self-deprecating humor (especially in the Kamala Harris segment).
• Deep-dive educational: The Sandifer interview is rich in historical detail, philosophy, and law, but remains engaging and non-academic, making the founding era accessible.

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Summary

This Armstrong & Getty episode combines sharp, unapologetic commentary on geopolitical realities in the Middle East (emphasizing the religious dimensions of the conflict), a satirical take on current U.S. political leadership, and a substantial, instructive conversation with historian Tim Sandifer about the roots and meaning of the Declaration of Independence. The hosts’ irreverence, skepticism toward mainstream media, and enthusiasm for American founding values thread throughout, making for an episode both provocative and illuminating.

Transcript

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Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center,

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Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

With just eight vessels reportedly passing through the strait in the first 48 hours of the ceasefire, a statement was released via state media from Iran's new Supreme leader saying, quote, and certainly we are entering a new era with the management of the Strait of Hormuz. We did not and do not seek war, but we will not give up our rightful rights in any way. And for this we consider all the fronts of resistance as one. I find it hilarious but intentional that the American left likes to bellow about theocracies and then criticizes the US when we try to take an evil, evil theocracy down. Speaking of which. Oh, interesting, huh? Weird. My wife is telling me we were preempted in certain quadrants by a severe storm thing. Great. Okay. Because nobody has a smartphone these days anyway. So I want to get to a great piece of writing about how the conflict with Iran is truly a holy war, but nobody wants to say it. One of the delights of this job is I and Jack get to say things that nobody wants to say that need to be said. I love it. Anyway, we have mentioned. I've mentioned this guy a couple of times before we get to that. This Abdul El Sayed who is leading the Democratic primary in Michigan for the United States Senate. This guy is a dedicated Islamist and his. This made a bit of news. It should have made huge news. Huge news. But the media is unforgivably terrible and biased and stupid and I hate them. A former Marine and top security official for Abdul El Sayed's campaign, Jordan Domingue is breaking the political code of silence to warn voters about the candidate's character and profoundly concerning foreign policy positions. He says he's unfit for office. This comes in the aftermath of that campaign call leak to the Washington Free Beacon, during which El Sayed made it clear he didn't want to comment on Ayatollah Khamenei being killed because of support for the regime in Dearborn, Michigan, stating that there are a lot of people in Dearborn who are sad There are a lot of hardcore Islamists in Michigan who are rooting for the ayatollahs in all of this. Domingue, who's the only veteran on El Said staff details, conversations and observations he has that says, quote, give credibility to the claims of El Sayed's anti Semitism and pro Islamist regimes and factions painting a picture of a candidate unfit for the United States Senate. This guy consorts with Muslim America haters all the time, including that insane Hasan Piker who's the anti American podcaster who's super hot on the radical left. Anyway, they are absolutely among us. So back to the piece why the West Won't Call this a Holy War. It's written by Yardina Schwartz, who's a writer, thinker, commentator, and she writes the conflict with Iran didn't begin three weeks ago. This was obviously written a week and a half ago. I've been holding onto it. It's a continuation of a decades long religious war to weaken the west and eliminate Israel, she says. When I'm reading the news and listening to debates, it's nearly impossible to understand what this conflict is truly about. If you ask most of its supporters, this is a campaign to halt the Islamic Republic's march toward a nuclear weapon and end its violent repression of a population that overwhelmingly rejects its extremist ideology. Through the lens of its critics, it's a war of choice over oil and power, one that the United States was dragged into by Israel, and in certain circles it's framed as an effort to punish Iran for supporting the Palestinian cause. Okay, that's pretty good description of the various people yelling their various things. Yet zoom out in a very different picture comes into focus. At its core, this is not a geopolitical conflict launched by the US or Israel just over three weeks ago or five weeks ago. Rather, it is the continuation of a holy war to export Islamist ideals, weaken the west and eliminate Israel. A war that has been waged by the Islamic Republic and its proxies for decades. That war began in 1979 when the Islamic Republic came screaming into existence. From its inception, the regime has made the destruction of Israel a core objective, viewing the existence of a Jewish state on what it considers holy Muslim land as an affront to Islam. This is another thing your big time commentators and press will never talk about Islamists. That's fundamentalist Muslims view the very existence of Israel as an insult to Islam and they can never, ever, ever rest while Israel exists. Because part of the principles of fundamentalist Islam is that Islam's expansion is proof of its rightness and it conquering the world. And to some extent it has and it's trying to. Hello Dearborn. That's proof of its rightness. And so the existence of Israel is, is an insult. It's a refutation of the trueness of Muhammad's words. Okay, so they can never ever, ever come to peace with Israel. Now your Saudis and your UAE types and all who are much more practical and believe in a reformed version of Islam. That's a lot like religion as you understand it, they're fine with it. But the hard chorists in Tehran never, never, never, never. Going on with the piece. Iran has never hid its ambitions. It has openly and proudly established funded, armed and trained terrorist proxies throughout the Middle East. For I prefer the term Islamist to terrorist. Terrorist is too imprecise. Everybody uses it. It's practically lost its meanings. Its meaning. So I'm going to say they have openly and proudly established funded, armed and trained Islamist proxies. Throughout the mid for decades its rallies have featured chants against the Great Satan, the US and the little Satan, Israel. There is literally a clock in the central square in Tehran counting down the days to Israel's destruction, which the now deceased supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei predicted would occur by the year 2040. It's a large electronic billboard right in the middle of the main square in Tehran. It was bombed by Israel last year. Appropriately, even the most cursory look at the forces aligned with the Islamic Republic reveals the ideological nature of this Hezbollah, funded by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Right there in the name is a self described jihadist organization whose name means Party of God. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are likewise backed by Iran. So are the Houthis, who triggered a civil war in Yemen that's killed an estimated 400,000 people, led to the displacement of more than 4 million others and produced one of the world's most acute humanitarian disasters. The Houthis official slogan is God is great. Death to America. Death to Israel. Curse the Jews. Victory to Islam. When people tell you over and over and over again who they are and what they are, it would take an American intellectual to deny it. Moving along, they are also. There are also Iran backed Shiite militias in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq where tens of thousands of militants operate under the umbrella of quot the Islamic Resistance in Iraq. These militias, like Hezbollah, also chose to join the war with Iran. Meanwhile, the IRGC's Quds Force is explicitly dedicated to, quote, the liberation of Muslim land. Its primary focus is Jerusalem, whose Arabic name is Al Quds, hence the name the Quds Force, because Jerusalem was conquered by Islam, ruled by Muslim leaders for nearly a thousand years, and is now the capital of the Jewish state, a reality that is sacrilegious to Islamists everywhere. This is why Al Quds Day is one of the most important dates on the regime's calendar. Jerusalem Day is one of the holiest holidays in Tehran. Established by Khamenei in Khomeini, I think, in 1979, it falls on the last Friday of Ramadan and is dedicated to asserting Islamic claims over Jerusalem. Two weeks ago, regime officials risked their lives to commemorate this day in Tehran. That's how important it is. It would be the last public appearance for Ali Lari Johni, the former secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, who is widely considered the most powerful man in Iran. After Khamenei was blown apart, he was killed in the Israeli airstrike three days later. Blah, blah, blah. So yes, according to the Iranian regime and every single one of its proxies, this is a holy war, and the reality is nothing new, she writes. The problem is that most Western outlets have hidden it for years, which has made me insane. I spent a decade reporting from Israel and the west bank for some of the world's leading news organizations. During those years, I experienced firsthand the voluntary censorship of stories and even elements of stories that illuminated the religious nature of this conflict. When I asked why, parts of my story that crystallized these driving forces were removed by my editors, including direct quotes from Palestinians I interviewed saying, for example, that Jerusalem is purely Muslim land to which Jews have no right. I was typically told that the story should focus on the news at hand, or that those details amounted to unnecessary context. In many of my stories, I included details about how Israel's war of independence began with the Arab leaders of Palestine and every Arab state rejecting, rejecting the UN partition plan that would have created the first ever independent state of Palestine, they rejected it. Then their immediate declaration of jihad against the Jews. This context was always removed, leaving leading readers to think that the war of 1948 began with the establishment of the state of Israel. It didn't. It began with the Muslim rejection of the plan and what she just described. And she describes how through the years she had repeatedly pitched stories about the various clashes at Al Aqsa Mosque, the religious drive behind those clashes. These ideas were rejected by editors who normally accepted my pitches, stories that included inconvenient facts like Palestinians stockpiling weapons inside Al Aqsa Mosque and Attacking Israeli police were spiked. She was there. She interviewed the people. She saw it. But editors were like, no, we're not printing that. In the articles that were published, when I noted that only Muslims are permitted to pray at Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism, it was almost always removed. And during the current war, she writes, these distortions have continued. This month, the Al Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount was closed to protect worshippers from Iranian missiles which have struck Jerusalem several times in the last few weeks. Last week, the fragments of one of those intercepted missiles fell just 400ft from Al Aqsa. And yet the closure of the site was misleading and predictably depicted by various news outlets as some sort of cruel Israeli scheme. Oh, man, there's. There's so much more to this. I'll just hit you with a little bit more. It should not need to be said that the Middle east is not the West. We are not dealing with an opponent who views victory and defeat through the short term lens of lives lost or territory won. What we are up against is something far more menacing and far more difficult to confront. A fanatical drive to fulfill a vision of the world that is inherently contrary to liberal values and to do so by any means necessary. We might come back with a little more of this. It's so important, and it's one of the things that frustrates me so much as I watch the news being presented the way it is, including a lot of people who ought to know better. And I think in a lot of cases their intentions are good, but they're misguided. They don't want moderate Muslims, people who just grew up with Islam and like I grew up with Protestantism, I became a Protestant. Okay, I've thought a lot about religion and I've kind of changed my course. But most people on earth just fall into whatever their parents say is the right religion. And they worship devoutly or kind of sorta, or they're entirely secular and people are afraid. They don't want good, nice Muslims who just want to make a living and raise their families to be put on the other side of some sort of global conflict. I understand that impulse, but it's gone way too far. Way too far. Beware hiding the truth, because we're all better off. If I hide the truth, that always leads to a bad place, including a situation where only radicals are willing to speak the truth. And so people tend to go over there and not, you know, the. Where they're. They're better served by more mainstream politics anyway. More on this to come. It is a holy war. It's absolutely a war against Islamic fundamentalism and jihad and Sharia law. And the more people who know it, the better. More to come.

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the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures I want

[Jack Armstrong]

to get back to this very, very smart article about how the current war is actually a holy war. But speaking of very, very smart, ladies and gentlemen, I give you Kamala Harris talking to Al Sharpton.

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[Jack Armstrong]

a participant with other democracies around holding

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up international rules and norms such as human rights, such as the importance of respecting relationships. Foreign policy is a lot like your friendships in your personal life.

[Jack Armstrong]

She is one of the most annoying people I have ever encountered. For real. Class A moron. She may be the queen of a dumb person trying to sound smart and intellectual. I will say she is good for if you're ever feeling like a dumbass, just listen to something she said and

[Joe Getty]

you're like, okay, I'm not that bad.

[Jack Armstrong]

In the context of the globe and the world. The world. Both the globe and the world.

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Cause they're two things.

[Jack Armstrong]

Interesting. Yeah. Wow. Wow. My God. And she ran for president. Okay, that's enough of that. That it's just I feel like I've been hit by a blow. A body blow. I need to recover my. I think I lost an IQ point or two right there. And Al Sharpton nodding along. You couldn't see him, but oh boy. So getting back to this terrific piece about this is all a holy war cause I want to finish the thought and this the writer goes into the fact that there were strangely fawning obituaries about the Ayatollah in the New York Times and the Washington Post, which waxed poetic about the Supreme Leader's literary affinities and easy smile, while fail to mention his undeniable quest for global Islamic domination. You'd think that might have been the headline. Or consider the recent Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon. Those targeting Hezbollah have been portrayed by much of the Western media as an opportunistic expansion or unprovoked acts of aggression under the COVID of the war with Iran. But this is not a separate conflict. It is the same war. It's a continuation of the war that started on October 7, 2023, when the militants launched what they called the Al Aqsa. Remember, we were talking about the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, Muslim holy ground. It's all the same war. It is a holy war. It is extremely, coincidentally appropriate that we're going to next segment, talk to Tim Sandifer about his book on the Declaration of Independence. And I can't wait to talk to Tim about that. Because this holy war, the other side of it, rejects every single one of the sacred founding principles of the United States of America. They want to end them by force, all of it. And that's why it's so important that people understand who the opponent is and what they believe and what's at stake here and not get caught up and worried about worrying about offending somebody. All right, stay tuned. We've got Tim Sandifer from the Goldwater Institute next. If you can't stick around, just grab it later via podcast. Armstrong and Getty on demand.

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[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lennox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars. Perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain or enjoy the little details that make everyday life special. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure. And once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage so you're

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[Jack Armstrong]

friend of the show, Tim Sandifer Tim, the lawyer who is a big wheel these days at the Goldwater Institute. We'll talk about that in a minute. Also an adjunct scholar with the Cato Institute, among other things, and the author of a number of fine books which I recommend recommend heartily one and all, including a brand new book proclaiming Liberty, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence. Can't wait to read it. Tim Sandifer joins us now. Tim, how are you?

[Joe Getty]

I'm just great. Been too long.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it really has been. I hope you and your beautiful, brilliant bride are both doing well. I'm looking at what you wrote about your new book, Proclaiming Liberty, and you describe it as a biography of the Declaration of Independence. I love that. What do you mean by mean?

[Joe Getty]

Well, I tried to tell the story of the Declaration of Independence in order to cover the legal and philosophical background of the Declaration, but to tell it in sort of a story format about the friendship between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and the issues that they were facing in 1776. So I wanted to make it not just a boring recitation of philosophical or legal issues, but to try and tell it in the context of the. Of all the controversies that were going on at the time, which I think a lot of people don't know about. I mean, I think today people read the Declaration of Independence and they get to that long list of complaints about what Britain was doing and they don't really know what those things are all referring to. And so I wanted to go clause by clause through the Declaration and say exactly what it was that Parliament was doing that bothered the Americans and how that connected to the lives of the people who wrote the Declaration.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, two points. Number one, I have always been inspired by, for instance, Adams, Jefferson, there are plenty of other examples of guys who disagreed with each other vehemently. I mean, like red faced, spit flying. But they stuck together and they said, we will work this out, we will figure out a compromise. Which I think is a lesson all of us could follow. And the second thing is, I love the idea of going through the various clauses and helping people understand what they mean and why they were so serious. They merited launching a new country. Because I'm certain people will say, wait a minute, I can relate to that in my, my business, my family, my town.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, definitely. And you know, one of the reasons I wrote the book is because it annoys me so much when you hear people say, well, the American Revolution was just about a little three penny tax on tea. And you know, people were saying that back in 1776 too. And it really annoyed people like Jefferson and Adams when people would make that claim because it just was not true. The issue was, how much power, if any, does Parliament have over, over the colonies of North America? And the answer was no, it was the King who governed them, but the laws were made by their own local legislatures and Parliament would not accept that. So really the rebellion was a rebellion against Parliament. At first, not against the King. It was only when King George made clear that he was not going to do anything about it and that he sided with Parliament that the Americans said, well, then we can't even be loyal to the King either. And that's why the Declaration is aimed at the King and doesn't even mention Parliament by name. They couldn't even bring themselves to mention the name Parliament in the Declaration because just that angry.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

But you're right about. You're right about compromise and negotiation with people who disagree with each other, because, you know, we have this idea that all the patriots reunited, but they really weren't. They had a lot of internal disagreements, and it took a lot of patient negotiation and argument. And sometimes they got very angry at each other. My favorite example is Thomas Jefferson. Later in life, Thomas Jefferson said about Patrick Henry, we must devoutly pray for his death.

[Jack Armstrong]

I've always wondered whether that was cool or not in the eyes of whatever concept of the Almighty. So why did you go with Jefferson and Adams in particular, since there are many fine founding papas that you could have focused on?

[Joe Getty]

Well, I've always been a big Jefferson fanatic, ever since I was a kid. But you can't really write about the Declaration and just about Jefferson. He was very young. He was one of the youngest members of the Continental Congress. He was 33 years old at the time that he wrote the Declaration. And he showed up at the Continental Congress pretty late in the day. John Adams had been there the entire time, and he was really the champion of independence from an early day. And their friendship, you know, everybody knows that they ended up having a lot of very serious disagreements. But that wasn't until later on in 1776. They were both very radical, and they were really good friends at the time. And so it became. It started out as a book about Jefferson, and then as I wrote it, it turned into a buddy picture, you know. And from that point, I had to tell the story about what happened the century before that, because people don't know much about the English Civil wars of the 17th century, 100 years before the Revolution, that the Americans were already demanding a certain degree of autonomy at that time. And it was those wars that set the background for the American Revolution. This isn't something that just, you know, everybody woke up in 1775, and we're like, hey, we're tired of being British. You know, this was something that had been simmering for 150 years before the Declaration.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was gonna say steeping in honor of the Tea Party, but yes, well, that's. And that's one thing that I don't want to get off on the tangent about Jeffersonian democracies in Middle Eastern countries, but we were steeped in the principles that gave birth to this country for a hell of a long time. I mean, it was truly in our DNA.

[Joe Getty]

Yes. And that was a point that John Adams particularly was very emphatic about. You know, when the French Revolution broke out, you know, more than a decade after American independence, Adams was very cynical about the possibilities of the French Revolution because he said, you need this long cultural development of the ideas of freedom before you can have political freedom. And he thought the French were acting too quickly because they didn't have that tradition. And there's a funny thing. Adams was one of these guys who liked to write in the margins of his books, like I do. And so he had a copy of a book about the French Revolution, and he wrote all these angry comments in the margins. And there's one part where he says, how could anybody expect for millions of Frenchmen who had known nothing but absolute tyranny and absolute monarchy for centuries to go overnight into a modern democracy is totally insane. And, I mean, it's amazing how that lesson is something we could still learn a lot about today.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it's half a cliche, but, man, I spend a lot of time thinking about the fact that everything is downstream of culture. Everything. And people, whether they're attractive half wits serving in Congress who declare there's no such thing as Western culture, or just people who fail to even notice that it exists. It makes me insane. But that's part of the reason I get up and do this job. So when you. I'm sure you occasionally run into somebody who clearly has either no understanding of the Declaration of Independence or tends to think it's like, not one of the important founding documents. It's the Constitutions are founding document. What do you lead with? What's the most. What's your lead pitch? That. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you need to wake up and understand.

[Joe Getty]

You are absolutely right. I have encountered this for decades. Ever since I was a teenager, this issue has bothered me especially. There's a lot of conservatives who like to downplay the importance of the Declaration, say, oh, no, the war was really about the traditional rights of Englishmen. All that stuff about equality and liberty that was just put in there to interest the French. The Americans didn't really care about those abstract principles. And that's total nonsense. The Declaration of Independence is the cement of our union. In fact, even Jefferson said When he was an old man, he said that the Declaration was the fundamental act of the union of these states. And Jefferson was a states rights guy, and he still said that. So the Declaration is part of our Constitution. And that actually, that's another reason I wrote the book, is I was really bothered. When Justice Barrett was going through her confirmation hearings for the Supreme Court, one of the senators asked her, is the Declaration part of our law? And she said, no, and that's completely wrong. Of course it's part of our law. It was passed by what was the legislature of the country at the time. It had legal consequences by separating us from Great Britain. It still has legal consequences. It's in the statute books. If you pull down volume one, page one of the Statutes at Large of the United States or the United States Code, there it is. What else is necessary to make it a law? It is the basic law. It's the frame in which the Constitution exists.

[Jack Armstrong]

See, I didn't even know that last part about it actually being in the codes. It's bizarre and troubling to me that she would say that. I don't think I fully appreciated it at the time.

[Joe Getty]

She's not the only one either. Justice Scalia said the same thing. In fact, when he was on the Supreme Court, Justice Scalia would frequently refuse to join opinions that cited the Declaration of Independence because he says it wasn't law. Of course it's law. And the reason that it's important that it's law is because. Because it's like the 9th and 10th Amendments. If those are law, then the Declaration is law. And the role of the 9th and 10th Amendments of the Constitution plays. They teach us how to read the Constitution, and that's what the Declaration does.

[Jack Armstrong]

Also, we're talking to Tim Sandifer of the Goldwater Institute. His new book is Proclaiming Liberty. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence. I meant to ask you, when we were talking about this, Jefferson Young showed up late to the party. How did he get the gig of being the head of the writing the Declaration Committee?

[Joe Getty]

Well, he had written two documents that really impressed people at the time. He wrote a response to Lord North's conciliatory proposal. So what that was was Lord north was the prime minister, and he had sent what he claimed was an offer of compromise to the American colonies. But if you actually read it, it turns out it was just an illusion. There was no actual offer to compromise at all. And so Jefferson in Virginia, he was given the opportunity to write a response to that and did such a Good job of it that he later went to Philadelphia and they asked him to write a second response to Lord North. And then the second thing was he had written a pamphlet called the Summary View of the Rights of British America. And that also was so impressive to people. So well written. Jefferson was a really gifted writer and they liked it so much that in fact, Jefferson used whole phrases from that pamphlet in the Declaration of Independence itself. So he was a young gifted scholar. And that was the other thing was he was really knowledgeable about the history of law. He was really good at looking up old law and explaining what the old laws meant because he was a very scholarly guy. I mean, there are these legends about him as a college student staying up late in the night, reading to the point where his friends got annoyed. And at one point they wanted to go out and have fun and they came and they overturned the desk he was trying, he was working on in order to get him to go out and have a good time with them. And, you know, it's funny to read stories like that and be like, Jefferson was a guy like everybody else. He, you know, he, he flirted with the girls when he was in college and he went out with his and had a good time. But he also wrote the Declaration of Independence. It's just incredible.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah. Tim Sandifer. Tim, can you hang around for a little bit?

[Joe Getty]

Absolutely.

[Jack Armstrong]

We'll do a short break and then continue the conversation. Would absolutely love to do that. I want to talk about Adams and how he was such a wonderful balance to Jefferson. After a word from our friends at Simplisafe. Apropos in that in a lot of parts of the country, the executive branch, specifically law enforcement, DAs, whatever, whatever, mayors, city councils are not taking care to execute the laws. They're not putting criminals behind bars. They're not keeping you safe. So SimpliSafe is a great way to enhance your personal safety and that of the people you love and the stuff you treasure. It's significant that Simplisafe has no lock ins, no hidden cancellation fees, no long term contracts. They earn your business every single day. And people love it. Because Simplisafe is not just a camera that'll text you an alert. It's a comprehensive ecosystem of sensors, cameras for inside and out and 24, seven professionals monitoring in the event of a break in or a fire or a flood, SimpliSafe's agents are ready to take action for you right now. You can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system at simplisafe.com Armstrong that's simplisafe.com Armstrong 50% off won't last forever. Simplisafe.com Armstrong there's no safe like Simplisafe. Back with more with Tim Sandifer in seconds.

[Joe Getty]

Don't quote Armstrong and Gettysburg when your

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[Public Investing Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from public the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not so much someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures what a

[Jack Armstrong]

pleasure as we near the 250th anniversary of our founding to be talking about about Tim Sandifer's brand new book proclaiming John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence with the author. Tim, thanks for hanging around.

[Joe Getty]

Thank you.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I think a lot of people who are at least history nuts are familiar with John Adams as a balancing guy against your Thomas Paines and Thomas Jefferson's believed more in federal power as opposed to, you know, pure state rights, blah blah blah. But what was Adams effect on the drafting the Declaration?

[Joe Getty]

Well, so Adams tells this story when he was an old man. He told this story about how he had chosen Jefferson to write the Declaration because he was so busy and because he says, I was very much disliked at the time and I was afraid that everybody would pick on it if I tried to write it, so I gave it to Jefferson to write instead. And that probably is not true because at the time actually Adams was not disliked. John Adams was very much admired and respected at the time. It was only later that he became unpopular and so that's why he had had that misremembered what had happened. But he was the older and more experienced guy and he was really a trial lawyer. I think since I'm a lawyer, this is how I think of it. John Adams was a trial lawyer and Jefferson was an appellate lawyer. Meaning that John Adams loved to get in there and argue with people and he Gave the speeches and he persuaded people. And Jefferson liked to get behind the books and start looking into the history and writing stuff, but he didn't like to talk and he hated public speaking. All his life, hated public speaking. So he wrote and then let John Adams go and defend the thing. And as for the contents, most of it was stuff that Jefferson already knew or that had already been circulating for many years. But there were some things that Adams added to the Declaration, and particularly there's a complaint in there that says that the King has moved our legislatures around and made it difficult for our legislatures to meet. And that happened to Adams, specifically the Governor of Massachusetts. Massachusetts had gotten annoyed at the Patriots, and so he ordered the Massachusetts legislature to meet in Cambridge instead of in Boston, which was a real hassle. But most of all, it upset the Patriots because it was like, well, the King can just ignore the legislature and boss us around, tell us what to do, violate separation of powers, and that's not right. And so Adams got Jefferson to include that in the Declaration of Independence. And then once the thing was finished, Adams stood up and defended it against its critics, line after line after line. And it took two days for them to finally decide on the final wording of the Declaration after Jefferson had written the first draft.

[Jack Armstrong]

Were there any real sticking points, serious points of contention between, say, Adams and Jefferson or other folks? I mean, real bare knuckle brawls over what the Declaration should say.

[Joe Getty]

Not between Adams and Jefferson, but definitely between them and the other delegates. And the most obvious example is the one about slavery. So Jefferson had included this long, impassioned attack on slavery at the end of the Declaration. It was the longest passage in the Declaration and it was the most emphatic. Jefferson was using all caps and underlining words and things because he was so angry about slavery.

[Jack Armstrong]

I want to stop you. I want to stop you right there. Did you hear that? Products of America's beleaguered, perverted public schools. Jefferson hated the institution of slavery. Anyway, back to you, Tim.

[Joe Getty]

All his life, he hated the institution of slavery. And the idea that Jefferson was somehow pro slavery slavery or something like that is just a ludicrous lie that has been foisted on a lot of American school kids, I'm afraid. Jefferson had written this long denunciation of the King so that when you read his version of the Declaration, it sort of like rose to this rhetorical climax where it starts out with, well, he did this and he did that, and then he did these worse things and then these even worse things and then these even worse things. And then worst of all is he prohibited the colonies from limiting the importation of slaves. And slavery is this horrible thing, and that's how it end it. And Adams loved it. And years later, he said, I loved every word, especially the attack on slavery, but the other delegates at the Congress would not allow that in there. And Jefferson later said that it was South Carolina and Georgia in particular that were such heavy employers of slaves, but also the northern states, which were heavy transporters of slaves, also had qualms with it. And so they ended up taking that entire paragraph out. And Jefferson was so upset about that that he went back to his apartment and wrote out his vers of the Declaration and sent it to a bunch of friends and said, don't you think my version is better? And then 50 years later, in his memoirs, he did the same thing, copied out his version of the Declaration in order to make sure that everybody knew that he had tried to do this thing. Jefferson was very much against slavery. The problem was later in life he just gave up on the issue when he really shouldn't have. And I think he does deserve blame for that. But in 1776, he was an emphatic enemy of slavery.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, Tim, someday we'll have to impose on your time a little more and bring you back and talk about the founding fathers in slavery and the truth about that. Now, I have, to my credit, I have not read the whole thing, but I have a copy of the book Arguing About Slavery, which is wonderful, but are there any other books on the topic you'd recommend? We've barely got a minute, by the way.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, yeah, I do love Arguing About Slavery by William Lee Miller. Absolutely marvelous book. There are some really good books by. Oh, gosh, there's what's his name? I'm forgetting the name.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, drop me a note. We'll post it at the website at Armstrong&getty.com Tim Sandifer, the Goldwater Institute. The new book is Proclaiming Liberty. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration of Independence. I truly can't wait to read it, Tim. Always enjoy it so much. Great to talk to you.

[Joe Getty]

Thanks, Joe.

[Jack Armstrong]

All right, thanks. We will talk again soon. Next hour if you are privileged. If you have fourth hour privilege. We've got a great conversation coming up with Gordon Chang about China, not only in the wake of the conflict in the Gulf, but just what they are up to, because everybody's kind of been looking away, including the shocking fact that the Trump administration seems to have gone a little soft on China and why that might be so that's our four. If you don't get hour four, you got to go somewhere. That's fine. Just grab it via podcast later. Subscribe to Armstrong and Getty on Demand. It downloads automatically and you get the One More Thing podcast as well. Thanks for being here. More to come

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