Sick, Angry F's

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Sick, Angry F's — September 12, 2025

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Brief Overview

In this somber and reflective episode, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty respond to the shocking assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk at a Utah college event. The hosts analyze the immediate aftermath, the suspect’s confession and motives, the broader implications for American political discourse, and the younger generation’s shifting values. They thread listener reactions, press conference updates, and personal reflections throughout, maintaining an urgent yet introspective tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News: The Charlie Kirk Assassination

• [00:27-01:33] The episode leads with the breaking news that Charlie Kirk’s suspected assassin has turned himself in after confessing to his father, influenced by guilt. The hosts touch on J.D. Vance’s personal involvement with Kirk’s family and lament the senselessness of the event.
  • Jack Armstrong: “You have a friend gunned down like that.”
  • Joe Getty: “Horrifying. Yeah, on virtually every level.”

2. Media & Social Media Reaction

• [01:33-03:16] The hosts relay commentary from public figures, especially Peggy Noonan, highlighting national anxiety and the sense of a turning point.
  • Joe Getty [01:51]: “The assassination of Charlie Kirk feels different as an event, like a hinge point, like something that is going to reverberate in new, dark ways.”
• The volatile and extreme reactions on platforms like Twitter and Bluesky are discussed, emphasizing the dangers of mistaking online noise for broad public sentiment.
  • Jack Armstrong [03:16]: “A very low percentage of people are on Twitter or Blue sky. Very low. So how much should you look to that for what the nation thinks?”

3. Political Violence & Its Fallout

• [03:35-06:40] Armstrong and Getty cite positive gestures on college campuses as students gather for vigils, underscoring the tragedy of political violence silencing peaceful discourse.

  • Joe Getty, quoting Kim Strassel: “[Charlie Kirk’s] message was never violence. Let’s talk...for a man advocating that to be gunned down at 31 years old is a measure of the perversity of our political discussion.” [04:45]

• The hosts reject any attempt to justify or rationalize the killing based on Kirk’s political views:

  • Jack Armstrong [05:49]: “If it was somebody that was a real flamethrower, you still don't shoot them.”

4. The Danger of Social Media & ‘Nut Picking’

• [06:46-09:33] Extended reflection on the corrosive effects of social media. Armstrong and Getty caution against letting the worst, most extreme voices online represent an entire movement or society (“nut picking”).
  • Joe Getty [08:17]: “Practically unrestricted exposure to the sickest, angriest minds on earth...I don't think it's a beast we're designed to endure that.”
  • Jack Armstrong [08:25]: “Nut picking is so dangerous. You…let that seep into your brain that they represent the other side. They don't.”

5. Details from the Press Conference

• [10:45-12:40] Utah officials confirm details about the rifle used (a common Mauser Model 98 hunting rifle) and reveal the bizarre inscriptions found on the bullet casings, like “hey fascist! catch!” and “oh bella ciao bella ciao,” referencing a revolutionary song.
  • Jack Armstrong [12:01]: "‘Bella Ciao’ is a song favored by resistance movements and revolutionary anti-capitalist partisans.”
• The assailant’s confession and the role of family and online communications (Discord messages) are summarized.
  • Utah Official [13:38]: “A family member referenced a recent incident…They talked about why they didn’t like [Kirk] and the viewpoints he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate.”

6. Reflection on Political Messaging and Disconnection

• [16:06-17:44] They discuss the murderer’s background, the banality of violence, and the lack of anything “exotic” about the weapon, despite media attempts to hype it.

• [17:30-18:21] Armstrong questions how anyone could think political violence is ever justified or beneficial:

  • Jack Armstrong [18:01]: “How you could possibly convince yourself that this is going to make America a safer, better place in any way when you have political violence? You are crazy.”

7. Generational Change & Shifting Values

• [19:18-24:49] The conversation pivots to broader generational trends:

  • The decline in traditional milestones among young adults (moving out, working, marrying, having children):
    • Jack Armstrong [20:44]: “That percentage is 8%.” (down from nearly half in 1975)
  • Armstrong and Getty dispute the narrative that young people are waiting due to financial caution, arguing instead that priorities and values have shifted.
    • Jack Armstrong [22:04]: “Why are people just not willing to admit that [they just don’t want kids]?”

• They reflect on how becoming a parent helped them feel fully adult and connected, expressing concern about the diminishing role of family responsibilities.

  • Joe Getty [24:03]: “If you remove that from the culture entirely, that is absolutely going to affect people's behavior.”

8. Devaluation of College Degrees

• [25:43-27:24] The declining public confidence in higher education is highlighted:
  • Jack Armstrong [26:22]: “In 2010, three quarters of Americans thought a college education was very important. 3/4. It is now down to a third.”
  • They question the rigor and value of many degrees, especially in the liberal arts, and mock the disconnect between woke academic trends and practical job skills.

9. Disconnection, Community, and Social Pressure

• [34:56-37:18] The hosts link the assassin’s isolation to the wider cultural drift away from community institutions (marriage, parenting, church, even scouting), suggesting that social ties and responsibilities are key deterrents to extreme behavior.
  • Joe Getty [36:45]: “You're gonna tell me that doesn't keep you in line. Of course it does. Relationships, connection to other human beings.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe Getty [01:51]: “The assassination of Charlie Kirk feels different as an event...something that is going to reverberate in new, dark ways.”
• Jack Armstrong [05:49]: “You still don't shoot them.”
• Joe Getty [08:17]: “I don't think it's a beast we're designed to endure [social media exposure].”
• Utah Official [13:38]: “A family member referenced a recent incident…they talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate.”
• Jack Armstrong [18:01]: “How you could possibly convince yourself that this is going to make America a safer, better place in any way when you have political violence? You are crazy.”
• Jack Armstrong [20:44]: “[50 years ago] nearly half had reached all four milestones…Now [it’s] 8%.”
• Jack Armstrong [26:22]: “In 2010, three quarters of Americans thought a college education was very important...It is now down to a third.”
• Joe Getty [36:49]: “Relationships, connection to other human beings...I bet he was a fairly disconnected person.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Assassination News, J.D. Vance Involvement — [00:27-01:33]
• National Anxiety & Commentary — [01:33-03:16]
• Violence & College Vigils — [03:35-05:49]
• Rejecting Excuses for Violence — [05:49-06:40]
• Social Media's Distortion — [06:46-09:33]
• Press Conference/Rifle & Casings Details — [10:45-12:40]
• Suspect Confession & Discord Messages — [13:38-15:42]
• Banality of Violence/Weapon Discussion — [16:06-17:44]
• Why Political Violence Never ‘Works’ — [18:01-18:21]
• Young People & Adult Milestones — [19:18-24:49]
• Devaluing College Degrees — [25:43-27:24]
• Isolation vs. Community — [34:56-37:18]

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Overall Tone & Conclusion

Armstrong and Getty balance urgency and lamentation, lamenting both the loss of Charlie Kirk and the dangerous climate of political hyperbole. They scrutinize media, political culture, and generational change, urging listeners to remain grounded in real-world relationships and not lose perspective to online anger or division. The episode is ultimately a plea for sanity, connection, and reflection amid a time of sorrow and upheaval.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Unidentified Intro Speaker]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Unidentified Contributor]

He was actually scheduled to do some 911 events that the vice President's team canceled that because obviously they felt that this took priority just in terms of being able to go there and to meet with Charlie Kirk's family in Utah. And not only that, but to take the family and his remains and the casket back to Arizona where he lived with his family. It's just a sign of reverence for Charlie Kirk and also just signifies the impact of the relationship that J.D. vance and Charlie Kirk had.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, maybe you've seen the video. JD Vance actually walking with the casket as it was transferred to a plane. He was close friends with the dude and, you know, I'd be something. You have a friend gunned down like that.

[Joe Getty]

Horrifying. Yeah, on virtually every level.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the. Every level, the big news that is out and the FBI is having a press conference right now, and we'll get more information, is that the. The. The shooter turned himself in, told, apparently confessed to his dad, Guilt got to him or something, Told his dad, his dad convinced him to turn himself in, and he's in custody. And we're going to learn more about it here in the next hour. So that is quite a story.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how that shades and changes the discussion. I'm not sure how much it should, honestly, but it will certainly at least some. A couple of my favorite thinkers weighing in on the whole thing. Just want to quote them briefly. A couple of the great women of journalism and commentary. Peggy Noonan says, pray now for America. We are in big trouble. We all know this. We don't even know what to do with what we know. But the assassination of Charlie Kirk feels different as an event, like a hinge point, like something that is going to reverberate in new, dark ways.

[Jack Armstrong]

It does.

[Joe Getty]

It isn't just another dreadful thing. It carries the ominous sense that we're at the beginning of something bad.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I. You know, I hope that's not true, obviously, but it does feel like a turning point. It could be a turning point of, okay, we've gone too far and we ratchet down, but I don't like our chances.

[Joe Getty]

She quotes one commentator saying yesterday afternoon that normally after such events, the temperature goes down a little, but not in this case. And he's right. There are the heartbroken, the indifferent, and the irreconcilable. Blah, blah, blah, acts formerly. Twitter was from the moment of the shooting, overrun with anguish and rage. It's on now. And Blue sky, or supposedly gentler folk fled, was gleefully violent. Too bad. Live by the gun, die by the gun. But what a disaster all this is for the young, she writes. How was a presence in the life? The example he got, he set was a template for how to discuss politics with good cheer and confidence, with sincerity and conversation, never violence.

[Jack Armstrong]

I forget what the percentages are, but a very low percentage of people are on Twitter or Blue sky. Very low. So how much should you look to that for what the nation thinks, since it's a tiny percentage of not the most normal people that are on those platforms and post.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I would agree. I think in virtually every day, in every way, it's much more healthy to look at the people you are with and around work, your community, your place of worship, if you have one, whatever. The Internet is not your world. Your world is your world. It's a good point. Kim Strassel. Oh, I'm sorry. No, this is. We'll get to her in a second. Somebody else is writing about, oh, the editorial board of the journal talking about the various rage and glee and just sickness. And then they say, for a better example, look to America's college campuses where Charlie spent so much of his time building his movement with Turning Point USA. And they go through a bunch. University, Alabama, about 100 students gathered to cry, pray, remember and light candles. Political violence has no place in America, they said. The country was founded on the idea of freedom of speech, and we should all honor that. Similar crowd at Duke. Big crowd. University of Oklahoma came together. Missouri, where he was going to appear later this month at Mizzou. What Charlie did was give people the ability to speak, even if they disagreed with him, said one student. We need to remember in the aftermath of this that if there was ever a goal or a reason that someone would want to kill him, it is to stop us from talking to each other. The Citadel, the list goes on and on. So I found that positive. And then finally, this is Kim Strassel, who makes the point, as we made the other day, that the utter, undiluted horror of this is that Charlie Kirk's message was never violence. Let's talk. And for a man advocating that to be gunned down at 31 years old is a measure of the perversity of our political discussion and how even as earnest and peaceful a message as that gets portrayed as hate speech that hurts people and needs to be ended well by some.

[Jack Armstrong]

Like I said multiple times yesterday, though, if it was somebody that was a real flamethrower, you still don't shoot them.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And you can't make an argument while they brought it on themselves with all the words that they said.

[Joe Getty]

What? Yeah, I, I know what you're, you're driving at it. It seems almost unnecessary or even counterproductive to strongly make the case that he of all people didn't deserve political violence because nobody does. I get your point, and it's a good one. At the same time, what I'm talking about is the diseased hyperbolic political messaging of our time that could turn someone as peaceful and earnest as Charlie Kirk into a Satan who must be slayed.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? Yeah, that is troubling. So if you lean right, you're of the belief that one of the reasons Democrats can't win national elections right now is they believe Twitter is the world.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And that, that tiny, and that tiny loud group of people on social media, they have to react to. But when big stories happen, we turn to the reactions on Twitter's and Twitter and Blue sky and act like that's the world. I mean, we know it's not. I don't, I don't, I don't know if we can survive social media. We're not smart enough to like fully embrace the fact that that's a tiny percent of not normal people.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Commenting on there.

[Joe Getty]

Well, when for 99.999 percentage of the time human beings have had a frontal lobe and the ability to reason, the entirety of the inputs we took in were personally experienced. But in your own life, your eyes, your ears, your nose, et cetera. And then the printing press came on a blip ago and people were exposed to ideas and events that happened far from us. And then cable news, 24 hours of the most horrible things that can happen. And now social media, practically unrestricted exposure to the sickest, angriest minds on earth reacting to the most terrible events that have taken place on Earth. I don't think it's a beast we're designed to endure that.

[Jack Armstrong]

In fact, I know we're not.

[Joe Getty]

I know with certainty we're not. Whether we can adapt and, and, and deal with it somehow is the question mark.

[Jack Armstrong]

Man, nut picking is so dangerous. You, you, you pick out the most vile person on the other side and let that seep into your brain that they represent the other side. They don't.

[Joe Getty]

No. Here's the equation we need though, or a formula that we all memorize. If Three people on Blue sky say horrific things about Charlie Kirk that's of no significance. Everybody knows there are sick Fs in the world and there always will be. But what if 30,000 say it? What is that does that? Then you divide it by 10 over the power of something and you then deduce that. Okay, 5% of the third of people who identify as progressive are sick, angry Fs, as I put it charmingly ago. Because it's not of no significance.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

Just hard to know how much significance to attribute to it. And I wish I could help you all with that, but I'm still trying to figure out myself.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the governor just announced what was written on the bullet casing. Have that for you right after this.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

The governor of Utah finally confirming what was written on the bullet casings of the scumbag shooter.

[Utah Governor or Law Enforcement Official]

So the area north of Campus Drive Road where the suspect crossed over, you saw some of that in the video that we released last night. Consists of a grassy area with trees on the edge of the UVU campus. Investigators discovered a bolt action rifle wrapped in a dark colored towel. The rifle was determined to be a Mauser Model 98. 3006 caliber. 3006 caliber bolt action rifle. The rifle had a scope mounted on top of it. Investigators noted inscriptions that had Been engraved on casings found with the rifle. Inscriptions on a fired casing read notices bulges, capital O wo. What's this? Question mark. Inscriptions on the three unfired casings read hey fascist. Exclamation point, catch. Exclamation point. Up arrow symbol, right arrow and symbol and three down arrow symbols. A second unfired casing read, oh bella chow, bella chow, bella chow chow chow. And a third unfired casing read, if you read this, you are gay. Lmao.

[Jack Armstrong]

The bella Chow is a song favored by resistance movements and revolutionary anti capitalist partisans. I am told by Noah Rothman, who happens to be writing a book right now about liberal violence or left wing violence.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. Sure he'll be updating that book.

[Jack Armstrong]

So writing on the casings, which has happened now a couple of times. Who came up with that idea? Do you. You assume people are going to find the casings and then does it seem extra clever? I don't. What are you doing there?

[Joe Getty]

You want your purpose known even if you get away with it?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't.

[Joe Getty]

There's report that it was a family friend. The governor said, I guess in the press conference it was a family friend who turned in the shooter or urged him to turn himself in.

[Jack Armstrong]

We'll.

[Joe Getty]

We'll find out.

[Jack Armstrong]

Don't like the direction all this is going. All right, we got more on the way. You could comment on anything. Text line 415295 KFTC.

[Unidentified Contributor]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Unidentified Official]

And just last night the suspect was taken into custody at 10pm local time in less than 36 hours. 33 to be precise. Thanks to the full weight of the federal government and leading out with the partners here in the state of Utah and Governor Cox, the suspect was apprehended in historic time period.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, he turned himself in, so I don't. Okay.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. The governor himself took over at the press conference and gave us all sorts of the information that we have been looking for. We'll start here.

[Utah Governor or Law Enforcement Official]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We got him. On the evening of September 11, a family member of Tyler Robinson reached out to a family friend who contacted the Washington County Sheriff's Office with information that Robinson had confessed to them or implied that he had committed the incident. Investigators interviewed a family member of Robinson who stated that Robinson had become more political in recent years. The family member referenced a recent incident in which Robinson came to dinner prior to September 10th. And in the conversation with another family member, Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was coming to uvu. They talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints that he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate.

[Joe Getty]

Go on, Mr. Governor.

[Utah Governor or Law Enforcement Official]

Roommate who stated that his roommate, referring to Robinson, made a joke on Discord. Investigators asked if he would show them the messages on Discord. He opened it and showed several messages to investigators and allowed investigators to take photos of the screen as each message was shown by Robinson's roommate. These photos consisted of various messages including content of messages between the phone contact named Tyler with an emoji icon and Robinson's roommate's device. The content of these messages included messages affiliated with the contact Tyler stating a need to retrieve a rifle from a drop point, leaving the rifle in a bush. Messages related to to visually watching the area where a rifle was left, and a message referring to having left the rifle wrapped in a towel. The messages also refer to engraving bullets and a mention of a scope and the rifle being unique messages from the contact. Tyler also mentioned that he had changed outfits.

[Joe Getty]

The next clip, I think is what we've heard about the odd messages on the. The bullets which need to be decoded for a lot of us, but. So it appears to be precisely what it seemed to be. A person who hated Charlie Kirk killed him over his ideas and the whole.

[Jack Armstrong]

High powered rifle thing. Well, that's true enough, but it's like one of the most common guns in the. In America. Every kid I knew when I was like a junior high, high school kid living in deer hunting country had a 30 06. I mean, it's like super, super common and, and not difficult to use. So I don't. I feel like they're tarting it up is making it seem very exotic, but it's not.

[Joe Getty]

It's the opposite exotic. It's like the standard hunting rifle.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And. And it's. And if you're a hunter with a scope, it's not that difficult to make that kind of shot from that distance.

[Joe Getty]

Right, Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

To do it when you know you're about to kill somebody and, and, and be on the run, that. That's a different question. But if you're kind of nuts, maybe that keeps you calm. I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

So I don't know what to say other than everything we've said over the last 48 hours turns out to be more or less the case.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

I'll be interested to hear the decoding of some of the messages on the. The shell casings.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I don't. I don't know. I don't. I'm at this point thinking there's nothing to nothing to change the conversation whatsoever. I'm glad they caught the person that did it so they're not on the run to hurt anybody else. But other than that, the conversation is exactly the same as yesterday.

[Joe Getty]

And the stupidity and futility of it is one of the hardest things to take.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it is.

[Joe Getty]

Along with obviously the loss of a young father's life, but just the stupidity of it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

All right. Well, as the press conference goes on, we'll certainly mine it for anything that you need to know and, and we'll bring it to you and share some commentary as well, a bunch of other stories we need to get to today. And we will get to them in due course as we can.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, there's plenty of videos out there var nut jobs cheering this when they got the news and everything like that. How you could possibly convince yourself that this is going to make America a safer, better place in any way when you have political violence? You are crazy. Armstrong and Getty According to a new.

[Unidentified Announcer]

Survey, 40% of adults consult their partner before making a large purchase, while others clearly don't. The lightsaber used by Darth vader in the first Star wars trilogy recently sold at auction for nearly $4 million. So guessing that's one of the adults who don't consult their partner on big purchases. It was used by Darth Vader. That's not a real person.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the number was 40%. So that means 60% don't consult their partner before large purchases. Wow. Okay.

[Joe Getty]

Depends how you intermingle your finances, I guess. I guess to each their own. Coming up, more of the the press conference over the capture of the assassin to Charlie Kirk. It was as mundane, straightforward and horrifying as we thought. A young man, Utahn, 22 years old, who hated Charlie Kirk's ideas, assassinated him.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I've got a couple of things around kids today, or I guess society today, more likely they didn't raise themselves. A phrase we like around here for young people and the way they look at the world, either our parenting or the education we put them in is how they came to their ideas. And then culture changes over time. Like for instance, USA Today. This was yesterday. Path to adulthood takes new detours. And they've got a graph of the path to adulthood in 1975, which is a long time ago. That is 50 years ago and now. And the biggest bulk of young people. By young people, we're talking about 25 to 34 year olds. 25 to 34 year olds, which weren't really as you'll see from the stats, you wouldn't even have called them young people back then in the same way that you do now because nearly half of that age group 50 years ago, nearly half had reached all four milestones of moved away from their parents in the labor force, married with children. Almost half of 25 to 34 year olds.

[Joe Getty]

Right now.

[Jack Armstrong]

That percentage is 8%.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, my.

[Jack Armstrong]

That I've done all four of those adult milestones.

[Joe Getty]

And I have a feeling you're going to break down those who have achieved one or two or three.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So the.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so if you're.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, if you're usa, I'll tell you the way USA Today presents it. And I don't think that's really the thing. I think it's more cultural than this. So young adults are prior. I'll read the first paragraph. Young adults are prioritizing economic security over marriage and having children. You know, I've been arguing against this for years now. I don't believe that people are. I really want to get married and have kids, but it's just not financially prudent. So I'm going to save my money until I can. That is not what is happening, okay? And quit pretending it is.

[Joe Getty]

Well, and if you are, stop. It'll be fine. You'll figure it out.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm sure there are unicorns out there who are. But I don't think that's what's going on. None of the young people I know. And you know, it's. That's anecdotal, of course, but it's. You're going to concerts and traveling that you're not saving your money so you can have a kid as soon as possible. You don't want to have kids. Why are people, why are people so unwilling to just say out loud, I don't have kids. I think it would get in the way of my life. I want to do other stuff.

[Joe Getty]

Why.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why are people just not willing to admit that.

[Joe Getty]

I do know of a couple of kids of friends, adults, kids who say that, that I want to make sure I'm financially blah, blah, blah, before we do this or blah, blah, blah. They actually say it. I don't know whether they actually mean it. It's a good excuse if you're not sure you want to get married.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. Or not sure if you want to have kids. For whatever reason, people in successful countries with good economies have decided they don't want. They don't have the urge to have kids.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

People weren't making financial decisions about children all these Millennia. It just, it was like the biggest urge in your, your life.

[Joe Getty]

I think in all of our years of babbling. I've never exactly articulated this before. I got married pretty young and, and Judy and I had kids, you know, I was, gosh, 27 when Kate was born, our first and 34 when our third kid was born and there was in getting married first of all. And then when we had a child, I definitely felt like I was fully a member of the adult club.

[Jack Armstrong]

True. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And got the respect and I'm looking at you, you're looking at me. We both understand something about life from other husbands and fathers.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, I know and I like it.

[Joe Getty]

Was, it was being at a certain level or it's hard to describe.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah. I, I didn't do that till I was 45, till I had kids. But yes, the same experience. And then when you meet another parent, you don't need to say anything. You just both know. We know when we know what we're doing here. We, we are in, we are in it, we are in the real world of adulthood.

[Joe Getty]

And that felt good. I was proud of that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Absolutely.

[Joe Getty]

And if you remove that from the culture entirely, that is absolutely going to affect people's behavior. If I'm a 21 year old kid right now and I don't feel the slightest idea that one of the things my life ought to include is X, well then you're not going to tend to do it. And I don't feel by the way that I was pressured or duped or pulled or seduced or anything like that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Roofied.

[Utah Governor or Law Enforcement Official]

It's.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, quite the opposite. No, I went with my in with my eyes open and I found it to be a hundred times more satisfying than I'd imagined it would be.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

So if anything it was undersold. Yeah, well, now it's hardly being sold at all.

[Jack Armstrong]

I, this is not to, meant to be hurtful to people who don't have kids or have decided not to have kids or whatever.

[Joe Getty]

But I can't imagine wonderful, wonderful people.

[Jack Armstrong]

I can't even remember the point of getting up in the morning before I had children. I don't even know how there is a point.

[Joe Getty]

Just don't you get bed sores if you don't. So get up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Not to make everything about Charlie Kirk, but that was one of his things he said at every college gathering pretty much from what I read is don't talk about you can't afford it. Do it anyway. You'll figure it out. Get married, have kids. Yeah, different topic. But Also about young people. Unless you got more to say on that one.

[Joe Getty]

I was just going to say it reminds me of a lot of the things Jordan Peterson has said about take on some responsibility. You're going to love it because it'll make a man of you or a woman. It'll make a human being of you.

[Jack Armstrong]

And another change in the way we look at the world and the way people are behaving. This one was earned by you. Colleges across America value Americans place on college education and has cratered in 15 years. You wouldn't think it could change this much this fast. But you did earn at colleges.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Between the price and the fact that there's all kinds of studies that show that kids don't actually learn anything. And we look around us at college kids and think, what are you doing? What are these classes we are taking? What do you. What is this?

[Joe Getty]

Well, hit us with the numbers then.

[Jack Armstrong]

I will. Okay. In 2010, three quarters of Americans thought a college education was very important. 3/4. It is now down to a third.

[Joe Getty]

Good gracious.

[Jack Armstrong]

It dropped from three quarters to a third.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. I think people see it of as of less value because it's of a lot less value.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is why. Yeah, that is exactly being taught anything.

[Joe Getty]

And half of that is crap.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. And so the not important went from damn near zero to a quarter. Just flat out not important. Then fairly important is, is, is, is climbed and is now the bulk at 40%. But not important went from like zero. Like there's practically nobody in America thought, well, it's not important whether you get a college degree or not. Now a quarter of people do.

[Joe Getty]

And.

[Jack Armstrong]

They don't cry the numbers. The way the chart looks. I would like to see what this looks like five years from now.

[Joe Getty]

Thank you for applying for this accounting job at Jones and Jones Accounting. What do you believe is the most important part of reconciling credits and debits? Colonialism. Speaking of which.

[Jack Armstrong]

Gender studies. Is that an answer?

[Joe Getty]

Transgenderism. Speaking of which, we played this late in the show yesterday because we needed to lighten up. It's a dark moment, but in the wake of the shooting of poor Charlie Kirk, Fox News broke into their coverage because their reporter told them she had a couple of college students there at Utah Valley to, to talk to and this is how it went.

[College Student Interviewee]

Well, from what I'm hearing, if, if it's true, the guy who got shot, he was a pretty big influence in whatever was going on, like the. Their agenda. Right. So if I don't know, I hope I Hope it all like gets figured out. And I really don't. I really don't want this to happen again.

[Unidentified Intro Speaker]

Yeah, I don't know. I. I don't know. I just. I. From what I heard, it was. It was a sniper from. From a long ways away. So I don't know. I think the focus of this should probably be on probably some sort of. Some sort of gun control or something like that so that things like this can't happen again.

[Unidentified Contributor]

Thank you guys so much for doing that.

[Joe Getty]

When those two scholars come to my office and show me their diploma, what do you think that makes me think about? That diploma? Did you print this yourself? Do they give it to anyone? Does this mean anything?

[Jack Armstrong]

No, it doesn't. It doesn't mean anything. It honestly doesn't.

[Joe Getty]

Right. Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

I. I should take no information from you telling me you graduated from college.

[Joe Getty]

Other than that you showed up long enough, you remembered where the campus was for a few consecutive years.

[Jack Armstrong]

You've hit us with the statistics that spend less time in class than ever before.

[Joe Getty]

Right? So you barely studying.

[Jack Armstrong]

You stayed in robe. Congratulations. Your parents probably figured filled out the paperwork each semester until you graduated.

[Joe Getty]

So you remembered where the campus was four consecutive years. I. I guess we can assume you'll be able to find your way to work if we hire you. Beyond that though, this diploma means nothing.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I've talked about this. The turning point for me, or recognizing the turning point for me was. Well, several years ago now in my university town, major university town, we're doing trick or treating. And I was talking to some of the dads and I threw out thinking I was being controversial. I don't even know if college education is what I want my kids to get. And all the dads were like, yeah, I know. Me too. Unless it's something specific, I'm not pushing my kid. And I was like, wow, in this town, the parents have decided unless it's some specific like medical thing or something, engineering, my kids not going to college. I thought that is a big deal.

[Joe Getty]

I want to tell you what thoughts just ping pong through my heads. At my head, I just have the one from.

[Jack Armstrong]

If you had two that or more, that should be the lead.

[Joe Getty]

Well, I had the second one removed because people kept looking at me funny. Anyway, the good folks at Webroot want to remind you that TransUnion was breached. 4 million people's info I. And it's happening way too often. And that's why you got to trust webroot. Total protection. It's not just antivirus and Its identity protection for up to 10 people. Dark Web monitoring, up to a million bucks in fraud, expense reimbursement and more.

[Jack Armstrong]

Includes VPN, cloud backup, 24. 7 US based support. You call to somebody in the United States for support. They, they even, they even have an elder fraud hotline which is huge for families.

[Joe Getty]

Of course if your ID does get stolen, it can take hundreds of hours to fix it yourself. But with Webroot, you've got a team behind you. It's like insurance for your digital life.

[Jack Armstrong]

Protects everyone, toddlers, students, seniors. Webroot Total Protection is built for real households.

[Joe Getty]

You can get 50 off Webroot Total Protection or Webroot Essentials on webroot.comarmstrong that's webroot.comarmstrong Again, big discount, great protection. Webroot.comarmstrong so here's what ping pong through my head. I was talking about how worthless diplomas were and I was about to say, as I've often said, the exception being the technical degrees. If you're a chemical engineer, you know, computer science, whatever, I completely respect your degrees. But then it, I was reminded that the postmodernist, the Marxists insist, remember this, on every single field being centered around decolonializing, anti racism, in other words, neo Marxism, the whole slew of radical this theory, radical that theory, gender. They want math class to be focused on anti colonialism. They want to tear all of it down. So can I trust your engineering degree? Depends where you went went. I guess.

[Jack Armstrong]

They got the shooter and we know who it is. And it's very mundane and yeah, that's, I don't know what to expect and horrible. But we got more details on that and a bunch of other stuff on the way. Stay here. Armstrong and Getty.

[Unidentified Announcer]

We want to start off tonight by saying that, as I'm sure you've heard by now, conservative activist Charlie Kirk was murdered yesterday at a college event in Utah. We're horrified by this grotesque tragedy and our condolences go out to his family and loved ones. Political violence is abhorrent.

[Jack Armstrong]

I like that. Seth Meyers said that. Stephen Colbert said that, Jimmy Fallon said that. Practically everybody is saying that, which is good because it is abhorrent. Did you see that? Patrick Mahomes, the very Christian, very rich Patrick Mahomes announced yesterday that he would pledge to pay all of Charlie Kirk's two children's living in education expenses.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know how wealthy Charlie Kirk was. I know he was running a hundred million dollar enterprise. I assumed he's pretty wealthy himself. But anyway, that was a very, very nice gesture.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. And interesting. We mentioned earlier that the Yankees had a moment of silence almost certainly because they're players and a hell of a lot of their employees are young men who really respected Charlie Kirk and appreciated.

[Jack Armstrong]

His message as well possible that Patrick Mahomes, as a a guy still in his 20s and a Christian, wasn't like super into aware of at least Charlie Kirk.

[Joe Getty]

Right, Right. If you're not up to date, perhaps you're just tuning in. The authorities have the assassin of Charlie Kirk in custody. He is predictably but horrifyingly a 22 year old who became more and more political, expressed strong dislike of Charlie Kirk and clearly is the shooter. He was between family and friends. The authorities were alerted that it was him. You know, and the messages scratch on the shell casings were as they were described in the law enforcement memo we brought you yesterday.

[Jack Armstrong]

This has got to fit in some to the graph we were just talking about where in 1975 you had dang near half of people under the age of 34 who had reached all four adult milestones of moved away from their parents in the labor force, married, had kids. Now it's 8%. As Joe was talking about how it changes your life when you have kids and you become a grown. You're just too busy and plugged into everyday life to get all worked up about some of these political things. Everybody tweets about all day long. You don't have time to scroll Twitter and you know, fume about some nuts comment when you're raising kids.

[Joe Getty]

Right, right. Or we're just working a demanding job or trying to build a career. The other aspect of this, because I agree with you 100% and it reminds me in an odd way of our conversation with Topo Padilla about bail bonds and these cash free bails where you just turn the person loose with a signature that says they'll come back to court and they often don't. What he emphasized was that it was family and friend connections that got people to show up in court. The people in their lives had chipped in to get them out, pre trial, et cetera. And it was those connections that people value that brought them back to court. You have to a large extent a generation or two of people who are not directly connected to people much. They have Internet relationships. But this guy had no long time girlfriend or fiance or whatever, I suspect who he knew he would betray. He would betray all of her hopes and dreams.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? Right.

[Joe Getty]

By doing what he did.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're gonna tell me that doesn't keep you in line. Of course it does.

[Joe Getty]

Relationships, connection to other human beings. How about a scout troop? What would a scout troop think of him? I doubt he had a scout troop. What about the members of his church? Forget it. How about, you know, the. The place he volunteered for, you know, extra credit in high school? What would they think of it? No, I bet he was a fairly disconnected person.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's a good point. When you're connected, you got. You got a lot more social pressure to not do the crazy stuff in a healthy way. In a healthy way.

[Joe Getty]

I don't want to let down the people who respect me.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that is a good point. That should be discussed more often. You missed the segment. Get the podcast. We got a lot more to come. Armstrong and Getty. This is an iHeart podcast.