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- [00:00]
Ad Read Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Public Investing Ad Voice
Guaranteed Human support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com when people turn to
- [01:06]
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telehealth for weight loss, they're looking for real support. That's why more people are choosing orderlymeds.com orderly meds connects you with real doctors and access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and Tirzeptatide. No guessing, just a more supportive experience and all shipped directly to your door in discreet packaging. Do your research, ask questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. That's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice, eligibility required. See site for details.
- [01:36]
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- [02:09]
Martha Stewart
This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret. Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. So drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters. The food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Available now in the Reynolds wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.
- [03:25]
Jack Armstrong
So our next guest started calling into the radio show when he was practically a child. And we called him Tim the Lawyer. And he was a lawyer, and he would call in and correct us when we were wrong or help us out when we didn't understand something like that. And he was a fan favorite. And that was many, many years ago. And his more grown up name, his full name is Tim Sandifer. He's actually vice President of Legal affairs at the Goldwater Institute. He's an adjunct scholar, whatever that is, with the Cato Institute. And he writes books, including this new book proclaiming Liberty, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and the Declaration of Independence by Timothy Sandifer. I hold a signed copy in my hand. I started listening to it last week. I got the audio version. Tim, welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show.
- [04:10]
Tim Sandifer
Thanks for having this old, worn out old man on your show.
- [04:14]
Jack Armstrong
Jack, how old were you when you started calling in? You had to be young.
- [04:17]
Tim Sandifer
Well, yeah. Well, it must have been 20 or 25 years ago, something like that. So I was in my mid to late 20s.
- [04:24]
Jack Armstrong
Wow, cool. I'm listening to your book. Do you consider listening to books counting as reading it?
- [04:30]
Tim Sandifer
Oh, yes, definitely. Otherwise I would have to say that I'd read half as many books as I actually have.
- [04:35]
Jack Armstrong
Yeah, I know some people don't count it that way. I actually feel like I retain information better hearing it than reading it. I know different people's brains are different on that, but I started listening different
- [04:46]
Tim Sandifer
kinds of books too. You know, long, long fiction books like, like the, the great classics like Victor Hugo or Charles Dickens. I would probably never get through those on paper. I'd much prefer. And they were actually written with the intention to be read out loud when they were originally published in the 19th century. So I think there's Nothing wrong. However, if you listen to the audio of my book, you're missing out on 100 pages of some of the finest footnotes.
- [05:09]
Jack Armstrong
Not to get distracted, but I'm halfway through Ulysses for the second time.
- [05:14]
Tim Sandifer
Oh, poor thing.
- [05:16]
Jack Armstrong
It's awesome. It's my favorite thing I ever read.
- [05:18]
Tim Sandifer
Why would you. Why would you do that to yourself?
- [05:20]
Jack Armstrong
It took my whole life to get to where I could read it, though. I started it, like, 10 times throughout my life and got, like, a chapter in and thought, this is ridiculous and a waste of time. Somehow. Somehow I reached the point by, like, training my brain through harder and harder literature that I now can fully enjoy it. And it's the greatest thing ever. Anyway, I don't want to get off on that. So. Coming up, on July 4th, it will be the 250th anniversary of, you know, the signing of the Declaration. No, not the. We signed it on January. We voted for it on July 2, because I know John Adams thought that would be the date that would be remembered throughout history. They voted for independence on July 2, 1776. They signed it on the 4th of July. You've got this book out this year in this year where we're all taking a look at the Founding, proclaiming liberty. What's it all about, Tim?
- [06:09]
Tim Sandifer
I wanted to tell the story of the origins of the Declaration of Independence. And that includes a lot of things that are frequently left out. For example, in the 17th century, in colonial America, there was a rebellion against Great Britain that a lot of people don't talk about. 100 years before the Declaration of Independence, Britain went through, or England at the time, went through civil war. And that civil war had effects in colonial America. And in fact, the King of England created a dictatorship in the New England states and put a single dictator named Edmund Andros in charge of what he called the Dominion of New England, who imposed taxes without legislative consent and all this sort of thing. And Massachusetts settlers rose up and overthrew him. And people don't know about that story. I also wanted to talk about.
- [06:56]
Jack Armstrong
I don't know that story, and I've read a lot of Founding stuff, so that's really interesting.
- [07:00]
Tim Sandifer
And I wanted to talk about what specific things Parliament was doing to the Americans that ticked them off. I wanted to go through the Declaration, clause by clause, and say what each of these grievances specifically refers to, because I think a lot of people don't know when they read the Declaration, what exactly is being discussed when the Declaration says, like, he has refused his assent to laws that are Wholesome and necessary. What laws were they? So I go through each of them and talk about that, and I want to put the whole story in. In a narrative story and in telling it not like facts and dates, but telling, like, about Jefferson and Adams and their friendship and how they grew together through the summer of 1776.
- [07:38]
Jack Armstrong
So that's fantastic. I wish I said earlier on, if you heard me say this, I wish I'd have had you as my 8th grade history teacher or any of my grades. It's amazing how many teachers, you know, and, you know you're doing your best, can take such an exciting story and make it so dry. Yeah, because. Because the whole founding story, it's. It's really a miracle that it turned out the way it did.
- [08:02]
Tim Sandifer
Isn't really is. There are so many moments when things could have all gone wrong and just almost by accident or by. Because, you know, the slowness of communications back then was a big factor. So, for example, you know, by the time the British finally got around to sending a commission to negotiate with the American colonists did not arrive until 10 days after independence had already been declared. And so all these little things that could have changed the outcome that just didn't. It's really remarkable when you go through that list. Yeah. It is unfortunate that history teachers sometimes make the story boring, which is really remarkable because it's such an exciting story. And I was very lucky that I. My history teachers, for the most part, really were good about talking about these things in a way that really made you think, what would I have done if I had lived back then? And I think that's really the key to understanding and appreciating this history.
- [08:56]
Jack Armstrong
Ah, that's a good way to look at it. Man, there's so many different directions I could go with this. I know you're such a big fan of the Declaration of Independence. Where does it rank as our founding documents?
- [09:09]
Tim Sandifer
Well, that is one of the arguments I make in the book. So if you ask most lawyers today, unfortunately, most lawyers would say that the Declaration of Independence really isn't a law. In fact, Justice Barrett, when she was going through her confirmation hearings, was directly asked about this, and she said, the Declaration of Independence is not law. And that's completely wrong. Of course the Declaration of Independence is law. It's part of our constitutional documents. There are four of what they call organic laws of the United States. That's the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, the Northwest Ordinance, which organized the territories in the Northwest United States, and the Declaration of Independence. And I think it's important for lawyers particularly, and judges to appreciate that the Declaration isn't just a statement of rhetoric. It creates a rule about how American government ought to operate, and that is to respect the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and the classical liberal political philosophy that informed the writing of the Constitution. And unfortunately, lots of lawyers and judges today shrug at that. And they don't care about those principles or they don't think that they're binding, or they think that they're just matters of opinion. It's not a matter of opinion. It is a fact, fact of the world. That all men are created equal, that they are endowed with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are not just statements. These are as true as the idea that two molecules of hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen, I mean, atom makes a molecule of water, absolutely a verifiable fact about existence.
- [10:44]
Jack Armstrong
I don't want to get off on why some of those scholars or teachers might want to downgrade the Declaration of Independence because they want to. Because they're neo Marxists who want to destroy the country. We won't get off on that. What did the Founders mean by pursuit of happiness?
- [11:02]
Tim Sandifer
Well, they meant a lot, a lot of different things. But the most important thing that's often neglected today is economic freedom. The Founders, by pursuit of happiness, they meant your right to put your skills and knowledge to work, to provide for yourself and your family and to build up as fortune if you want to, to care for your economic circumstances. They understood that a lot of people came to America with nothing to their name. A lot of colonists had arrived here with nothing, and they had put their. Their skills to work and built up businesses to provide for themselves and their families or farms or whatever. That's the foremost thing that Thomas Jefferson means when he uses that phrase, pursuit of happiness. A month before the Declaration of Independence, the Virginia Declaration of Rights had been published. The very first Bill of Rights in the world. And it says every person has a right to pursue and obtain happiness and safety to acquire property for that purpose. And that's what they're referring to. Unfortunately, a lot of pseudo scholars say, well, the Founders didn't believe in property. That's why they took out the word property and said pursuit of happiness instead. That's nonsense, of course. The Founders believed in the essential importance of property rights. But the pursuit of happiness is how people who don't have property acquire it. Right. It's freedom of opportunity. That's what they meant by pursuit of happiness.
- [12:23]
Jack Armstrong
That's. I want to talk about that specifically. First, I got to tell you about Simply Safe. We'll be back with Tim. Simply Safe is. It's right there in the name SimpliSafe. It's simple to set up. It's a, it's a. It's a home protection system. It's a security system. It's simple to order, it's simple to set up and it's simple to use. And all those things need to happen for you to actually have a security system that you're going to use at your home. Because I don't know if you've had one or seen them before, that they're so complicated, you just never go around to. Or they always went off accidentally because of this or that. SimpliSafe is fantastic. You go to the website, you set it up, you customize it for your home, you ordered it gets there fast. Could take 30 minutes to set up like it did for me. The sensors and the cameras and all the different sort of stuff. If you need help, they've got help available to set the thing up, but you can set it up on your own. And then you've got this amazing protection that 5 million people like me use. And there are no contracts or anything like that. It's not that expensive. They earn your business every single day and you'll keep using it like I do. We trust SimpliSafe. Our listeners will get 50% off a new system right now when you sign up for professional monitoring. And your first month is free, by the way, by visiting simplisafe.com Armstrong that's half off@simplisafe.com Armstrong there's no safe like Simplisafe. The whole pursuit of happiness thing and equal opportunity. What. Where were the founders on equal outcomes, which seems to be such, you know, a big thing in modern America that there are. If there are people that have more than others, then clearly we've got some sort of systemic problem.
- [14:04]
Tim Sandifer
They were very firmly against that idea. You know, it's funny that this idea gets floated around today as if it's some new modern idea that nobody's ever thought of before. But the founders are very familiar with this idea. Plato had written about it thousands of years before. And the founders founding fathers found it disgusting and very dangerous. You know, if you, if you redistribute property rights because you think that you're going to make everybody everybody else's friend, the result is actually going to be disaster. Nobody's going to care for their property. People are not going to put their efforts, their best efforts into into their work, and they're going to resort to politics, which is to say coercion, instead of negotiation and bargaining and exchange. So Jefferson believed that there were certain existing laws about private property at the time that were obstructions to economic freedom, and he wanted to get rid of those. And so sometimes you'll read things that they write about, how it's important to create better opportunity for the poor and things. But that was how they wanted to do it. They wanted to get the roadblocks out of the way. But the idea of equal outcomes, they were very familiar with it, and they rejected it as contrary to the fundamental rights they were fighting for. The right to pursue happiness means that if I go out and I work hard and I develop a fortune, or if my father goes out and works hard and leaves me a fortune, then I have the right to those things. Nobody has the right to take them away. You know, the other day, what's her name, that socialist congresswoman from New York? His name I can never remember. Aoc she was saying. Yeah. She was like, well, you can't earn a billion dollars. It's impossible to earn a billion dollars with. Well, I didn't earn my lungs and my liver and my heart either, but they belong to me. And you sure as hell better not think that you have a right to them because you need them or something. Absolutely not. Of course not. They're mine because I didn't hurt anybody to acquire them. And so that was the view of the founding fathers. As long as you didn't commit a crime or something, then that property is yours and nobod the right to take it from you. And if they try to, you're setting the rules up for violent civil war.
- [16:07]
Jack Armstrong
The book is Proclaiming Liberty. If you want to learn more about this from Tim Sandifer. Tim, can you stick around for a while?
- [16:13]
Tim Sandifer
Yeah.
- [16:14]
Jack Armstrong
Because I got a question. I've been wanting to ask you about this. All this kind of stuff and a few other things that will fit in with the news of the day around this issue and our founding Fathers all on the way. Stay right here.
- [16:26]
Tim Sandifer
Armstrong and Gettysburg.
- [16:32]
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- [16:47]
Jack Armstrong
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Jack Armstrong
By the way, Ethos has a 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 4, 000 reviews. So you can trust them and you
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- [18:01]
Public Investing Ad Voice
shop@take5.com support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available at public.com disclosure
- [19:02]
Ad Read Host
disclosures when people turn to healthcare for weight loss, they're looking for real support. That's why more people are choosing orderlymeds.com orderly meds connects you with real doctors and access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and tirzepatide. No guessing, just a more supportive experience. And all shipped directly to your door in discreet packaging. Do your research, ask questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. That's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice, eligibility required. See Cite for details.
- [19:35]
Jack Armstrong
I downloaded the audio version of Proclaiming Liberty. Maybe you want to get the paper version if that's what you're into,
- [19:43]
Tim Sandifer
or
- [19:44]
Jack Armstrong
you read on Kindle or whatever you do. Proclaiming Liberty by our friend Timothy Sandifer, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and the Declaration of Independence. Tim is joining us today. So, Tim, I was talking to a super smart friend of mine years ago and all this sort of stuff like we are, and I remember we were having the classic conversation of if the founders were, you know, if you dug them up and could reanimate them or something, and they were alive today, what would they have to say? And his thought was, he thinks the first thing they would say, oh my God, it worked. What do you think?
- [20:18]
Tim Sandifer
Yeah, well, that's not a bad answer. Jefferson, I don't think would have said that. Jefferson was confident that it would work and he believed in, he had confidence in change. He thought people would go wrong and make a lot of mistakes, but that eventually they would realize their errors and that there was really no better option than to trust the people of the country to run the country themselves because you can't come up with a system that is going to protect the people from themselves. That's a futile undertaking. John Adams, he was a little bit more cynical about things and he was very worried that, that certain forces would undermine the American constitutional system. And, you know, it's, it's so impossible to really compare their vision with ours because there's been so much change that it's like there's an old saying, the past is another country. And so that's really the way to think about it. However, I do think they would be. The one thing that they feared most of all is that Americans would get so rich and so comfortable that they would care to care about the principles that underlie the system and that they would care more about their next fried chicken meal than about whether or not Iran gets a nuclear weapon. That sort of thing was really concerned because that's what had destroyed Rome, and they were afraid that something like that would happen here.
- [21:48]
Jack Armstrong
Well, that seems to ring true, doesn't it? Their next Netflix special or whatever. I was watching, watching the president meeting with Chi yesterday in Tiananmen Square. There in front of the Great hall and they got giant portrait of Mao up there. I mean, the fact that doesn't get more remarked upon to me is amazing. If. If our experiment doesn't continue to work, the whole world could end up like communist China so easily.
- [22:15]
Tim Sandifer
Yeah, there's no. There's nothing. We have been given no guarantees that the civilizations of Egypt and Rome were not also given.
- [22:24]
Jack Armstrong
Right. Yeah. It's absolutely amazing. And that's why I think books like yours, Proclaiming Liberty are so important. I know 4th of July is one of your favorite holidays. Are you enjoying taking in all the stuff leading up to it?
- [22:37]
Tim Sandifer
Oh, yes, absolutely. So my wife and I have this little tradition where we spend July 4th in a different state every year. And so this state, we're gonna spend the whole week in Charlottesville in Thomas Jolsen's hometown.
- [22:49]
Jack Armstrong
Awesome.
- [22:49]
Tim Sandifer
And hang out. Hang out with Mr. Jefferson himself.
- [22:51]
Jack Armstrong
Jefferson, your favorite founding father.
- [22:54]
Tim Sandifer
Oh, yes. Jefferson is, with all due respect to my wife, my favorite person who has ever lived in history. And I told. I said this in front of her a while back, and she smiled and nodded and said, me too. So.
- [23:07]
Ad Read Host
Wow.
- [23:08]
Tim Sandifer
Wow.
- [23:09]
Jack Armstrong
That's why you two are together, right? Of course. The. Me too. I like him better than you also. So we're even. That is fantastic. That is a funny note and a great way to end. That's really great. Tim Sandifer. The book is Proclaiming Liberty. You can listen to it, you can read it in paper, you can read it on Kindle or however you do it. Thanks, Tim. Appreciate your time today.
- [23:32]
Tim Sandifer
Thank you, Jack.
- [23:33]
Jack Armstrong
That's really funny. You get two lawyers who are super into personal freedom and property rights and all that sort of stuff, and they each look in each other's eyes and say, my favorite person who's ever lived is Thomas Jefferson. Me too. That is great.
- [23:55]
Tim Sandifer
Armstrong and Getty.
- [23:58]
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- [24:15]
Tim Sandifer
Do your research.
- [24:15]
Orderly Meds Ad Voice
Research, ask questions. Then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. That's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice. Eligibility required. C site for details.
- [24:29]
Martha Stewart
This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Costco.
- [25:45]
Ad Read Host
Wasn't that delicious? So good.
- [25:47]
Tim Sandifer
Your bill, ladies.
- [25:48]
Ad Read Host
I got it.
- [25:48]
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- [25:49]
Tim Sandifer
No, I got it.
- [25:51]
Jack Armstrong
Seriously, I insist. I insisted first. Oh, don't be silly. You know, be silly.
- [25:56]
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Jack Armstrong
credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay.
- [26:03]
Ad Read Host
Rock, paper, scissors for it.
- [26:05]
Tim Sandifer
Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No.
- [26:08]
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