So She Could Use Them As A Footstool

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand Episode: So She Could Use Them As A Footstool
Release Date: April 17, 2025
Host: Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this engaging episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty delve into pressing issues surrounding higher education, academic freedom, and the political landscape influencing these domains. Joined by Congressman Kevin Kiley, the discussion navigates through the infiltration of neo-Marxist ideologies in universities, the Trump administration's stance on academic policies, and the broader implications for American society. The episode culminates with a thought-provoking interview featuring Senator Bernie Sanders, providing diverse perspectives on the current state and future of American education and politics.

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Academic Freedom and Higher Education Under Scrutiny

Timestamp: [04:12]
Speaker: Kevin Kiley

The episode opens with Kevin Kiley addressing the ongoing battle between the Trump administration and prestigious institutions like Harvard University. He highlights the administration's efforts to combat what they perceive as the spread of neo-Marxism within the education system. Kiley emphasizes the need to restore principles of free idea exchange and academic freedom, questioning how to dismantle problematic policies without infringing upon foundational freedoms.

Kevin Kiley [04:12]: “How do we get back to the principles of the free exchange of ideas and academic freedom and end the horrible, like, DEI statements and that sort of thing? How do we, how do we clean that out?”

Timestamp: [07:02]
Speaker: Jack Armstrong

Jack Armstrong echoes Kiley's sentiments, expressing frustration over universities receiving substantial federal funding despite disagreements over their educational agendas. He raises a critical point about the financial dependence of these institutions on taxpayer money, questioning the justification for continued funding.

Jack Armstrong [07:02]: “There wasn't any pushback from the universities. When you're jamming, you know, Marxist philosophy in there with the government funding, there was no pushback because the universities were happy to teach it.”

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Listener Engagement: Emails and Community Input

Throughout the episode, Armstrong and Getty engage with listener emails, presenting diverse viewpoints and strategies for addressing the issues within higher education.

Timestamp: [05:25]
Speaker: Kevin Kiley

Responding to an email from Sarah, Kiley discusses the shift in campus culture exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, highlighting the mandated incorporation of social justice into class curricula in California. He critiques the government's overreach in educational content control, labeling it as an extension of neo-Marxist influence.

Kevin Kiley [05:25]: “They’re controlling it like crazy right now, reinforcing the neo Marxism. You’re absolutely right.”

Timestamp: [10:13]
Speaker: Jack Armstrong

Jack Armstrong reflects on another listener suggestion advocating for withholding federal support from institutions perpetuating a "leftist agenda." He underscores the irony of taxpayer money funding research that aligns with specific political ideologies, thereby stifling diverse viewpoints.

Jack Armstrong [10:13]: “There’s only one point of view that’s allowed, including research. So I don’t want my taxpayer money going to universities that only allow research that fits in with their politics.”

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Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders

Timestamp: [25:55]
Speaker: Bernie Sanders

The highlight of the episode is an in-depth interview with Senator Bernie Sanders. Addressing the criticisms from Armstrong and Getty, Sanders defends his stance against the policies promoted by figures like AOC and explores the tangible impacts of socialist policies in states like California.

Bernie Sanders [26:34]: “They have a socialist vision for America. They believe in open borders. They believe in defunding the police... These ideas have actually been implemented in the very state that they visited in California.”

Sanders elaborates on the socioeconomic challenges exacerbated by what he terms "radical socialism," including rising inequality and poverty rates. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining quality of life through sensible policies rather than ideological extremes.

Bernie Sanders [27:48]: “California has the highest poverty rate in the United States when you factor in the cost of living. So that is sort of the verdict for what these policies give you is they give you precisely the opposite of what Bernie and AOC are promising.”

He also touches upon the necessity of fundamental reforms in academia to protect free speech and academic freedom, criticizing institutions like Harvard for their poor rankings in these areas.

Bernie Sanders [33:35]: “Harvard was dead last [in free speech protections]. That's unbelievable.”

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Political Dynamics and Future Implications

Timestamp: [41:13]
Speaker: Jack Armstrong

The conversation shifts towards international politics, specifically the potential military actions against Iran. Armstrong references reports from the New York Times about Israel's plans to strike Iranian nuclear sites and Trump's preference for negotiation.

Jack Armstrong [41:13]: “Mr. Trump made his decision after months of internal debate over whether to pursue diplomacy or support Israel... It’s going to be a big deal.”

Timestamp: [44:12]
Speaker: Jack Armstrong

Armstrong speculates on the Trump administration's strategy, suggesting that failed diplomacy might pave the way for military intervention, potentially leading to significant geopolitical shifts.

Jack Armstrong [44:12]: “Secretary of State... And I don’t know. I suppose it comes down to whether or not Iran believes Trump would actually do it.”

Kiley adds to the discussion, contemplating the complexities of diplomatic relations and the potential fallout from aggressive foreign policies.

Kevin Kiley [44:18]: “If you knew Kevin, a former high school teacher...”

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Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

As the episode winds down, Armstrong and Getty reflect on the day's discussions, emphasizing the importance of active participation in political processes to counteract undesirable policies. They encourage listeners to engage locally, particularly in education, to effect meaningful change.

Jack Armstrong [45:07]: “If you don’t get every segment or every hour, you should get our podcast, Armstrong and Getty on Demand.”

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Notable Quotes

• Kevin Kiley [04:12]: “Nothing is guaranteed. AT&T is bringing something new to the table... [e-mail] guarantee@&t connecting changes everything.”

• Bernie Sanders [33:35]: “Harvard was dead last [in free speech protections]. That’s unbelievable.”

• Jack Armstrong [36:55]: “That's what I was driving at. And there's actually some great pop music about this sort of thing, whether it's Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall, Part Two, or Bloody Well Right, the Supertramp classic about the British schooling system and how utterly dehumanizing it was intentionally.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand offers a robust discussion on the intersection of politics and education, scrutinizing the influence of ideological agendas in higher learning institutions. Through listener interactions and a compelling interview with Senator Sanders, the hosts present a critical examination of current trends and their implications for the future of American society. The episode serves as a call to action for listeners to engage actively in shaping educational policies and preserving academic freedom.

Transcript

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[Kevin Kiley]

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[Joe Getty]

And now here.

[Kevin Kiley]

Here's Armstrong and Giddy. Easter Sunday happens to fall on the same day as the marijuana holiday 420. Which means no matter what your religion, this Sunday you're probably gonna see a giant bunny.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why was Conan O'Brien doing a joke? Is that old?

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah, as an old class.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, gotcha.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah, Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. Love Conan 4. 20 in Eastern Time. Made a really serious point. But why would I?

[Jack Armstrong]

I got an article from the Oregonian about disappearing church going in Oregon. Maybe I'll hit that later. Makes me sad. Might just be nostalgia. Is it because I think religion is so important, or is it just nostalgia? Sometimes it's hard to separate. In my head, it might be a.

[Kevin Kiley]

Little of both, but I think it's an instinctive reaction. Honestly, I do. So, coming up, AOC and Bernard Sanders are on their Fighting Oligarchy tour. Yeah, good. And they hit one of the delightfully red parts of California. Folsom, California, site of the famous Johnny Cash prison. And. And we're calling out Congressman Kevin Kiley, badmouthing him in front of the hordes. Well, Kevin is going to answer later this hour on the Armstrong and Getty Show. Looking forward to that.

[Jack Armstrong]

They should open Folsom Prison to oligarchs.

[Kevin Kiley]

They should turn loose the inmates who are victims of white supremacy and capitalism. So yesterday we talked at length about the battle between the Trump administration and Harvard and the bigger issue of how to clean up the infection that is neo Marxism in our education system in general, but especially in our colleges and universities. How do we get back to the principles of the free exchange of ideas and academic freedom and end the horrible, like, DEI statements and that sort of thing? How do we, how do we clean that out? How do we fix that without violating our own principles? The Trump administration will very short summary. Then I want to get into some folks ideas that they emailed to us. But we were saying if Trump uses the powers of the federal government to control what's taught in colleges, the next lunatic lefty to get in office is going to do the same thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? Right.

[Kevin Kiley]

Too many executive orders, not enough Congress, not enough. The culture demands it.

[Jack Armstrong]

But at the same time, why would any administration be in favor of gazillions of dollars of taxpayer money going to a college that you feel like is teaching things opposite everything you believe?

[Kevin Kiley]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why?

[Kevin Kiley]

Antithetical to the principles of the country. Never mind what I believe.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why would taxpayers fund that?

[Kevin Kiley]

Okay, so a bunch of emails, I said, all right, how do we do this? What, what techniques should we use? Does anybody have any thoughts? And as always, you guys, you folks responded with, with the brilliance and creativity. Let's see, this is and there's a bunch here, Jack. We'll just sort through them and discuss as necessary. Sarah with a nice note about going back to grad school. The first time in 2010, 2011, the second time in 2019 through 21 in California, and how the viewpoint diversity on campus in that first stint was challenging but not impossible. But by 2019 through 21 and exacerbated by Covid, she writes, I noticed social justice in every class rubric incorporated into instruction in every class, which seemed to be legally required and actually is in California, which is sick. So, you know, and some people said, dudes, all of a sudden you're concerned about, we don't want the government to control what's being taught.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Kevin Kiley]

They're controlling it like crazy right now, reinforcing the neo Marxism. You're absolutely right. So that was more about her experience. Now onto ideas.

[Jack Armstrong]

There just, there wasn't any pushback from the universities. When you're jamming, you know, Marxist philosophy in there with the government funding, there was no pushback because the universities were happy to teach it. So it didn't really make the news.

[Kevin Kiley]

Right. Yeah. So Jennifer writes a nice note. Love hearing your thoughts on academic freedom today. I'm glad, as always, that you don't just follow along with the latest Trump caper or caprice. Note to self use the term caprice more. I was pleased to hear the discomfort in your voice as you pondered. As directives to Harvard, academic and freedom and tenure have a long entangled origin. And she goes into some of the history of it. But academic freedom and tenure have their roots in protecting institutions and individuals from incoming rulers and administrations. Protecting the scientists whose theories went against the teachings of the church, for example. Academic freedom meant no more burning heretical academics at the stake. Intention was a very, very wise and benign one. There cannot be scientific progress or controversial literature, new forms of artistic expression, or questioning the king without academic freedom. Removing academic freedom, which is what Trump is trying to do. You know, I would interject, there's no academic freedom.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right now. We know you cannot be a scientist at Harvard and not believe in climate change. You, you couldn't. Or publish a paper. You couldn't do that. So that's not academic freedom.

[Kevin Kiley]

Well, right, and I'm, I'm going to interject here, Jennifer, because I think she has semi, unintentionally stated exactly the problem. I'm going to rephrase her sentence. Removing academic freedom, which is what Trump is trying to do, to restore any semblance of academic freedom would basically reverse A thousand years progress. Well, that would, that would be true if it were not already snuffed out on college camp High to. To, you know, in the vast majority of them. But now. Okay, to solutions. I liked your leaning toward a reasonable stance of actually enforcing existing civil rights laws and then working to change culture within institutions. What Trump is trying to do would bring on predictable chaos. Honestly, with the vitriol coming from the far left, I truly believe that if they ever gained real power, conservatives of any stripe would be in literal danger. I'd hate to see Trump setting them up for that and that much power.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, one of the questions I was asking is why are they getting federal money anyway? Harvard is sitting on $53 billion. And the wall Street Journal actually has an article today. Is Harvard's $53 billion endowment big enough to offset the funding cuts? I haven't read it yet, but I'm kind of interested in that.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah, that's Harvard.

[Jack Armstrong]

I would just pull back and say, fine, well, we'll fund it ourselves.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah. We also had an emailer staunchly defending taxpayer paid for research at universities.

[Jack Armstrong]

I get it.

[Kevin Kiley]

Very, very good defense.

[Jack Armstrong]

I get, I get why it would work.

[Kevin Kiley]

But.

[Jack Armstrong]

But I get the theory. Kind of like that person was talking about. But the reality is, the reality is there's only one point of view that's allowed, including research. So I don't want my taxpayer money going to universities that only allow research that fits in with their politics.

[Kevin Kiley]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Kevin Kiley]

More strictly spent to research money more reasonably spent would be fine. Here's a note from Tim here. I liked your thoughts on reigning in Harvard and other and their DEI programs. Among other things. Here's my ideas for doing that to them and other colleges that poke that push WOKE ideology. The government should sue them for any violations of any law. Recruit plaintiffs who have been aggrieved by the WOKE policies and represent them in lawsuits. I love that. Withhold every diamond support. Ask alumni to withhold their financial support. Expose them for the leftist agenda they're pushing on the students. Make it clear that a degree from Harvard has become a liability and not an asset. Yeah. Okay, so combination of, you know, attention on the progress the problem and enforcing law strictly and consistently.

[Jack Armstrong]

This reminds me a little bit of the problem with the. From the left and we didn't agree with this. Their idea of fixing racism with more racism. Yeah, this has got a little bit of the fixing lack of academic freedom with more of a lack of academic freedom.

[Kevin Kiley]

Right. That's what troubles me about it. And it's a Conundrum. It's a hard nut to crack, which is why we asked for input from the folks. Couple more. Our friend Frank. Thanks, Frank. It's an honor to be your friend. Writes the real culprit. The original sin, if you will, is the Higher Education act of 1965, which is the legislation that allows the federal government to influence a private college's policies and operations. If it or its students receives any federal money, this must be rescinded. Hillsdale College is famous for not taking federal money and is therefore immune from federal meddling. This is just one of the lefty strategies that's caused the left to expand their power.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is the if you still live with your parents, you're going to have to follow their rules principle.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yes. Yeah, it's. And it's notable that this was, you know, during the reign of the benevolent Great Society lbj, who decimated the American family, particularly the black family, by subsidizing families, breaking up kids out of wedlock. The rest of it, if you ever have any time, look at the comparison of employment rates, imprisonment rates, education rates, et cetera, among Black Americans between 1950 and 1970. You'll read some stuff that will open your eyes. Let's see. This is kind of neither here nor there, but I liked it, Kim. Writing about how do school districts enforce equity in Oregon? Because the problem goes all the way down to K through 12. In one case, in the town of Independence, they couldn't find replacements for special needs teachers who were absent for a very short period, so they closed down the entire school because it would be inequitable to give the vast majority of students instructional time that the special needs students didn't get crazy.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's crazy.

[Kevin Kiley]

Again, that's not exactly. But it's just more of the insanity we're trying to fight. Couple more. We got a great note from Mary, who is the chairman and CEO of Independent Institute that works on this stuff a lot, and she recommended a couple of books that they are part of, including one they just released two days ago, Let Colleges Fail the Power of Creative Destruction in Higher Education. And, Mary, we will absolutely be in touch about the book and about what you all are trying to do. Sounds just terrific. Yeah, there needs to be a little more of that.

[Jack Armstrong]

No doubt.

[Kevin Kiley]

You know, what's interesting is colleges and universities have become so much like all the other giant, bloated, stupid bureaucracies we talk about all the time. They are so in bed with the government at this point. Exactly. The same dynamics are at play. There's no responsiveness to taxpayers. They just get bigger and bigger no matter how bad they are at their jobs. So yeah, I'm really intrigued by that. How about Randy in Pennsylvania, listening to your comments, blah blah blah. Intentionally or not, Trump is doing what needs to be done by getting this out in the open for people to see what's going on. Especially to hear the progressive responses which would shock many of us. Hopefully this will encourage people to get involved locally by getting onto school boards to make a change at local levels. I attended a day long program last Thursday by the Institute of Faith and Freedom at Grove City College. Again, Pennsylvania can only say that I was hugely encouraged by the dialogue provided by four recent grads. Very refreshing. I like that. Attack it at the elementary and high school levels. Local school boards, this is Tom. Believe you touched on it a little bit yesterday. You were mentioning letting the free market side. I think that's one part of it. The other part of it is doing what we're doing now. Simply stated, federal funding of discriminatory policies or violation of civil rights laws. Yeah, that's true. That's absolutely true. Ideological bigotry, so much harder to root out.

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, right.

[Jack Armstrong]

How. How would you have any sort of rule where you force Harvard to fund research that doesn't believe in climate change?

[Kevin Kiley]

Right. Final note, we're going to squeeze it in Burbank. Luke. Guys, I hope this problem takes care of itself. You touched on it yesterday. A degree from Harvard and others carries baggage. Now the job applicant is not only possibly a leftist activist, but you now have to wonder how smart they are. I'm an engineer and we only care about experience. I know dozens of solid engineers who went to quote unquote lesser schools who've done astounding stuff. Frankly, the elite engineering schools, two of which are my now woke alma maters, been overrated for a long time and aren't worth the tuition.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's interesting. Wow. Wow. Sucks if you sent your kid there and paid for it.

[Kevin Kiley]

We got a lot of thanks for your thoughts everybody. We appreciate it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that was good stuff.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kevin Kiley]

The country, the rush to beat the tariffs is on. Even customers who really don't need a car are buying now before prices could rise by as much as 25%. And used car inventory is also shrinking with buyers shopping for cheaper options than new cars with price is shorter Rise used car sales up 12% compared to a year ago.

[Jack Armstrong]

What was your takeaway from that? You looked shocked.

[Kevin Kiley]

Well, if you don't need a car, why are you buying one at all? I mean, your car will last until things change again. Unless you think there's some sort of permanent actual long term protectionist plan, which I don't.

[Jack Armstrong]

No no, I'll tell you what a guy told me the other day. I was talking to this guy who was doing some work for me. He's asking about my cyberbeast and I said, yeah, my oldest son got too tall for the back seat of my car, so I needed something bigger. He said, yeah, that seems like a good excuse. People want an excuse to buy a different car. Yeah, that's what they're doing. That percentage of people, that was all it needed. Said, well, honey, I suppose we better.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah, as soon as you reach a level of financial comfort that buying a car is not because the last one won't run anymore and you desperately need. Yeah, there's excuse making.

[Jack Armstrong]

So tomorrow's Good Friday. I say with guilt in that. And I don't, I don't even know where this comes from. Being completely open and honest about this. I don't even know where the guilt comes from that I'm not, I don't do anything for Good Friday. I'm not planning to go to church on Sunday. And more importantly, my guilt is about the fact that I don't have my kids going to church on Sunday. And I don't know, I went to church on Sunday for Easter when I was a kid and did all the Easter stuff and I enjoyed it actually. So I feel guilty about that. But I was looking these statistics. The decline in people who call themselves Christians has leveled off since 2019. Had been declining for quite a few years. Now it's leveled off and it's not declining anymore. Here are the latest numbers, which I thought was kind of interesting nationally. Well, let me just do these Oregon numbers because I thought it was interesting. This is from the, an Oregon newspaper and they're just talking about Oregon, which is less churchy than the rest of the country. But it's kind of an interesting glimpse into your non churchy states like Oregon and California. I'm sure in 2000, as recently as 2007, 2/3 of adults in Oregon identified themselves as Christians. By the most recent survey last year, it's down to 43. So it dropped from 67 to 43, from 2/3 to less than half. God, that's quite a drop in a pretty short amount of time. Astonishing, isn't it?

[Kevin Kiley]

I'd love to hear an explanation of that. Is it has there been mass migration.

[Jack Armstrong]

And for the whole country it went from 78. So damn near 80% in 2007 called themselves Christians and it's still 62%. But that's a, that's a healthy drop. Yeah, but it is leveled off. It hasn't dropped over the last three years. I don't know what that means, just throwing it out there.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah, I would never want anything close to a theocracy, but to deny that the foundation of English common law in the Constitution has a lot to do with Judeo Christian principles just being ignorant. They are intertwined. What do we got coming up, Kevin Kiley, Congressman from a conservative part of California, claps back against AOC and Bernie, who called him out the other day?

[Cindy Crawford]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kevin Kiley]

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[Kevin Kiley]

This is not what you want. He knows. He knows that it is deeply Unpopular. He knows that it hurts the people of Folsom. But he is not there to serve working families. He is there to serve himself and the billionaire class that put him there. Well, Mr. Kiley, I think some of your constituents have a message for you. Don't vote to give tax breaks to billionaires and cut programs that the working class of this country desperately needs.

[Jack Armstrong]

Man, I wish we could talk to this Kevin Kiley person, but he's probably busy giving a foot rub to some oligarch right now.

[Kevin Kiley]

Oh, I tell you what. Typical of former English high school teachers, Kevin Kiley has become an unrecognizable monster, apparently, according to AOC And Bernie. And we'll talk to the monster now, Congressman Kevin Cowley of California's third District. Kevin, how are you, sir?

[Bernie Sanders]

I'm doing well. So nice of you to welcome me to your program. Despite, you know, what you've heard from our friends Bernie and AOC there, you're.

[Jack Armstrong]

Currently on your hands and knees serving as a footstool for an oligarch.

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, my gosh. Did you see? She flies first class for this fight Oligarchy tour.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah, right, right. Seriously. And, Kevin, you're not going to blow your own horn, but if you. If you knew Kevin, a former high school teacher, son of a teacher who believes in fiscal responsibility, educational choice, you know, American values. To call him some sort of lackey for oligarchs is hilarious. But how would you respond to the screeds that you've heard?

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, my gosh, where do I even begin? Well, for one thing, you know, I actually told both of them, I said, look, I'll debate you while you're in town if you want, but, no, they'd much prefer to just stand up behind a teleprompter and attack me from there than actually try to defend their ideas. But it's like when you look at what they advocate for, okay, they want their socialists. They have a socialist vision for America. They believe in open borders. They believe in defunding the police. They believe in essentially attacking and effectively abolishing small businesses or at least making life miserable for them. These ideas have actually been implemented in the very state that they visited in California. No more so than in places like San Francisco or in Oakland or some extent Los Angeles. So we don't have to theorize about what the consequences are. We can see it in the real world that many Californians have had to live with. And what are the consequences. We have out of control crime and homelessness and poverty and, ironically enough, inequality. California has one of the most, is one of the most highest inequality states in the entire country. So I'd say just look at the reality that we have. Fortunately, I happen to represent an area where we do things differently, and precisely because of that, we've managed to maintain a much higher quality of life than the rest of California.

[Jack Armstrong]

What a crowd they drew, though. Enthusiastic crowd, as Bernie always does. There's just enough chunk of people that buy that whole socialist vision that show up and cheer like crazy, and I can't. So they're trying to do what Trump did, where he would go into blue areas and draw a big crowd of excited conservatives that don't feel represented in that area and then call out the local person and then make a lot of news that way. So I guess that's the whole point, is to get you to respond. I don't see how it benefits them. Exactly, though.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Bernie Sanders]

You don't know how many people come from, you know, the local area and how far people come from. So, you know, but look, I feel like, you know, people want to go and participate in that. I think it's fine. I think that people, whatever viewpoint they are, as whether you're far left, communist or wherever you are on the spectrum, I think it's a healthy thing to be an active participant in the political process. It just so happens that the ideas that Ms. Ocasio Cortez and Senator Sanders are espousing are completely disastrous.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. So, you know, the, the Trump example is he's going around the country touting something that is major, mostly things that were majority popular or close to. Go ahead and nominate Bernie and Ocasio Cortez. The lose 48 states. So go, you know, get as much attention as you want.

[Kevin Kiley]

Exactly.

[Bernie Sanders]

So, I mean, honestly, I think it's a great thing in the sense that they're providing a very clear contrast that we have a choice between radical socialism, which has failed disastrously everywhere it's been tried, including in places like San Francisco, or a return to common sense that is sweeping the country right now and that is desperately needed in California.

[Kevin Kiley]

Congressman Kevin Kiley on the line serves California's third District, a very sane quadrant of California not far from the Radio Ranch at all. So, Kevin, I love the point you made about the income inequality in California. And it brought to mind a couple of stories I've heard from friends who are small business people and, or would be small business people who tried to get something started that would employ people and thereby feed and clothe them and educate Their children. And the bureaucrats extorted them for either just exorbitant amounts of money and permit fees and that sort of thing, or the paperwork was so dizzying it just discouraged them from doing it at all.

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, that's right, exactly. And it's terrible at the state level in California. And then you go to places like Los Angeles or San Francisco or Oakland and then you pile on the bureaucracy there. And it's why so many small businesses are. I mean, people in every community in California can tell you their favorite restaurant had to shut down or their favorite small business had to shut down. It's why you look at San Francisco, they've been leaving in droves. And you know, California also has the highest level of real poverty in every state in the country. Think about that. We've had one party rule for a long, long time. Gavin Newsom and the super majority legislature, and they've produced the highest poverty rate in the United States.

[Jack Armstrong]

I didn't know that. That's quite a stat. Say that again. So I fully understand it.

[Bernie Sanders]

California has the highest poverty rate in the United States when you factor in the cost of living. So that is sort of the verdict for what these policies give you is they give you precisely the opposite of what Bernie and AOC are promising.

[Kevin Kiley]

Newsom 2028, who's with me? So, Kevin, we've had an extended discussion over the last couple of days about the situation in American education, K through PhD and it's our belief that it's a huge challenge for the United States that so many of our educational institutions are teaching our kids to despise their country and Western civilization and that sort of thing. It's awful. You come from an education background. I know it's near and dear to your heart. Do you have any thoughts on how do we restore some semblance, excuse me, of academic freedom without taking away academic freedom by, you know, heavy handed mandates on college? Is that something you think about much?

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And you know, of course this is all coming to a head with this showdown between the administration and Harvard. But, you know, we need to think about what exactly happened on that campus and a number of other campuses across this country. You had this absolutely abhorrent explosion anti Semitism. This isn't like some small thing that went wrong. It's one of the world's most abhorrent, retrograde, ancient prejudices that suddenly sprang to life and in this horrifying way that threatened the safety of students that took over buildings they shut down campuses, essentially. People didn't feel safe on campus. And so I think that that has led many people to ask what has gone so incredibly wrong on these campuses? And it's not the sort of thing that the administration is saying where you can just have some, whatever, some focus group, some task force, some committee that says, okay, well, we'll try to do a little bit better. No, this has exposed something that is fundamentally wrong. Problems that are deeply rooted in the culture of academia, that frankly have in some cases been incubated at our universities and then spread throughout the country. And so I think that this is a time where we need to demand fundamental reforms precisely to assure things like academic freedom. Because, remember, even before the horrifying scenes we've seen over the last year and a half, Harvard, just to take that as an example, again, was the very worst college in the entire country when it came to protecting free speech. There was a survey, 251 colleges, they ranked them. How good are you at actually allowing free speech? Protecting the First Amendment? Harvard was dead last.

[Jack Armstrong]

I forgot.

[Bernie Sanders]

251.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's unbelievable.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah. You know, we'll have to schedule a time to talk at greater length about this because again, I think it may be the most important problem facing the United States. But you're right, we need to call it out, raise awareness, enforce the laws as they stand, and just chip away at the deal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Go back to making coffee for the oligarchs and we'll let you go.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah. There's the monster described by AOC and Bernie. I hope your children weren't frightened by rhetoric. Yeah. Kevin Kiley, Always, always to talk. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Bernie Sanders]

You bet. Thanks for having me on.

[Jack Armstrong]

So my joke about he was on his hands and knees as a footstool for an oligarch. The reason, the reason that popped into my head, I was reading this book yesterday, and I won't get bogged down on what it is, but it was about the elite private schools in England in the early 20th century. We've talked about this before. Christopher Hitchens writes about how brutal they were. I mean, it's just. It's amazing. I mean, if you were rich, you sent your kid to the hardest to get in school, they were going to be raped or fondled, beaten, with no repercussions from bullies. All kinds of horrible things. Anyway, at length, I was talking about the. He went to one of your super fancy private schools. I mean, he was like your upper crust of England. And the headmaster, the guy who ran the school there his wife would make two of the kids get on their hands and knees as a footstool for. In the. Even the school.

[Kevin Kiley]

Good work. If you can get.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow. Isn't that crazy?

[Kevin Kiley]

Wow. That, you know. Oh, boy, I would love to talk to some. Some Brits about how that fits into the overall British vibe, you know, the culture and because that's so abhorrent.

[Jack Armstrong]

Rich. If you were rich, you sent your kids off to be abused and everybody knew it because most of them went to the same school. You went to the school and were abused and then you'd send your kid to the same school to be abused.

[Kevin Kiley]

Right. To become an obedient cog who repressed his feelings and behaved in a very British way. That's Was how. That's what I was driving at. And there's actually some great pop music about this sort of thing, whether it's Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall, Part two, or bloody well right, the Supertramp classic about the British schooling system and how utter dehumanizing it was intentionally. Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

So they didn't come out of those schools and think, God, one thing I'm never going to do is have my kid go to someplace like that. No, they did the opposite.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah. It's interesting and it's remarkably different than the American spirit.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I'd say she would make a couple of kids get on their hands and knees. So she'd use them for a footstool in her evenings. That is.

[Kevin Kiley]

That'd just be weird. I'm not sure I want a human footstool. I mean, even if one were offered to me, I'm not sure I would take you up on the offer. I agree.

[Jack Armstrong]

I wouldn't feel right about it. It takes. It takes a certain personality to be okay with that.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, I will use you as furniture.

[Kevin Kiley]

Sure.

[Bernie Sanders]

Don't get any ideas, Jack.

[Kevin Kiley]

I'm not coming. In the studio.

[Jack Armstrong]

We got more in the ways there.

[Kevin Kiley]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kevin Kiley]

Okay, we could be here all day. Try Clorox Scentiva for a trusted clean.

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[Kevin Kiley]

News as directed Do I believe that people would have a conversation with me and get my perspective on things? Sure. Do I believe they would ever really, really support me, meaning those that have been entrenched within the Democratic Party now and for the last several years?

[Jack Armstrong]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Kiley]

Positively not. Look at what happened. I mean, you can look at Andrew Cuom, you can look at Al Franken, you can look at a lot of different things. And at least on the left what they say is that they eat their own, especially when they don't like you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Stephen A. Smith, he's known as a sportscaster dabbling in politics, is actually looking into running for president in 2028. He was on Hannity last night, perfectly aware that the left eats its own. But he's prepared for that. A lot of young men, I mean his name recognition among young males is sky high.

[Kevin Kiley]

And I might disagree with him on everything, but I would never poo poo him running for office because he's a sportscaster, He's a very bright guy. He chose that profession. He's a, he's a citizen of the country. He has ideas. Run for office.

[Jack Armstrong]

You got two Trump related things that I think are interesting in these final Minutes. So a lot of talk yesterday. Judge came out and said he's going to hold various people in contempt in the Trump administration if because they did something rather. We got this text on Brett Bear last night. A Republican on the panel explained how the judge saying the White House being held in criminal contempt to court is serious because they were. And how about. And this person says, how about when they held Eric Holder in contempt? Remember, he was the attorney general. The sitting attorney general was held in contempt by Congress. I can hear America yelling. And what. I've not seen him in jail. He still makes speeches and runs in circles of power. Nobody ever gets punished for being in contempt. Who cares?

[Kevin Kiley]

Well, being in contempt of Congress is different than being held in contempt by a court. Okay, I have contempt for Congress. I should be held in contempt of Congress. I have practically nothing but contempt for Congress. So legally, it's a different thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

And this, which I think is interesting from the New York Times, been expecting an attack on Iran any day. New York Times says Israel had planned to strike Iranian nuclear sites as soon as next month, but has been waved off by President Trump in recent weeks in favor of negotiating a deal with Tehran to limit its nuclear program. That's according to administration officials and others briefed on the discussions. Why they're telling New York Times, I don't know. Might be on purpose.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Mr. Trump made his decision after months of internal debate over whether to pursue diplomacy or support Israel in seeking to set back Iran's ability to build a bomb at a time when Iran has been weakened military, militarily and economically. I think they gotta go now. But he's trying diplomacy first, which I suppose is a good thing. And Mark Halperin's take on it is that the buzz in D.C. continues to escalate, that there will, in fact be some sort of US Israeli strike before too long on Iran.

[Kevin Kiley]

Yeah. You said you think they've got to go now. What do you mean by now?

[Jack Armstrong]

Before they have a chance to rebuild their. I mean, not like now, like today. I mean like this year.

[Kevin Kiley]

Right. Which is what I'm driving at is, I suspect, very strongly. Trump's team said, look, we've got to have the political cover of. We tried diplomacy, and I know they've been trying diplomacy for years and years, but let's take our shot at it now. It's going to go down in flames, and then we and Bibi bring the thunder. I suspect that's the strategy.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's going to be a big deal. I know you weren't Here on Friday. I talked to Mike Lyons about this and he confirmed what?

[Kevin Kiley]

I wasn't available. I was watching golf.

[Jack Armstrong]

He confirmed what I've been saying this would be the biggest military action by the United States of America since shocking on 2003. It's a big deal. Clearly, it's not going to be just one of those things where you read in the paper, you know, we launched a couple of airstrikes and killed an Al Qaeda member or something like that. It's going to be a big deal.

[Kevin Kiley]

And the resulting diplomacy with some of our friends in the Arab world is going to be a little complicated. For a minute there, it'll be just full of posturing and. And them shouting about, oh, the American monster, blah, blah, blah, and then calling the White House and saying, hey, nice job. Love it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Every country in the Middle east would be thrilled to see Iran knock down a peg and not get a bomb.

[Kevin Kiley]

Oh, yeah, absolutely true.

[Jack Armstrong]

But it's going to happen.

[Kevin Kiley]

And that you think the diplomacy is going to fail and the bombs are going to fall because Iran, Tehran is going to try as hard as they can to pretend to negotiate and come up with some sort of lukewarm deal that buys them time.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? The Secretary of State. Sure. Hawk on this.

[Kevin Kiley]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I don't know. I suppose it comes down to whether or not Iran believes Trump would actually do it. And maybe they believe enough that he'll do it that they think, you know what? There's no point in having our city destroyed. Me. Oh, that's the other thing. Mike Lyon said this would be regime change. This would be. Have to be regime change. That's what the goal would be here.

[Kevin Kiley]

How intriguing. I may grab that and listen to it via podcast. Armstrong and Getty on Demand, Friday's show. If I missed that, and I did, I was watching golf. So.

[Jack Armstrong]

Launching a regime change in a Middle Eastern country often leads to being around for a while.

[Kevin Kiley]

Oh, my. Oh, wait, now, hold. Hold on. Give me a minute. Yeah, Golly. Well, it's a complicated world, isn't it? Spicy times.

[Jack Armstrong]

So here's the deal. We do 20 hours a week. We do four hours a day. If you don't get every segment or every hour, you should get our podcast, Armstrong and Getty on Demand. Subscribe so it automatically shows up in your phone or your computer or wherever you list.

[Kevin Kiley]

A podcast.

[Cindy Crawford]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Joe Getty]

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to have supervision, enhanced hearing, extraordinary reflexes, to be, dare we say, superhuman? Well, Roku's new pro series TV can't do any of that for you. But with a 4K screen, side firing speakers and a blazing fast refresh rate, it'll sure feel like it. Elevate your entertainment using all your favorite apps like iHeart and Play all your music, radio and podcasts with the new Roku Pro series. Your senses aren't better. Your TV is Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances. So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, certified financial Planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's got to be a CFP. Find your CFP [e-mail] so you want.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Kevin Kiley]

Com.