That Toy Is Childish

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand – "That Toy Is Childish"

Date: November 7, 2025
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty, with Katie Green
Guest: Anastasia Bowden (Pacific Legal Foundation)

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Overview

In this lively episode, Armstrong & Getty wade into the world of modern dating trends, toy nostalgia, and the serious constitutional questions swirling around presidential emergency powers—much of which is sparked by a current Supreme Court case. Along the way, sharp commentary, biting humor, and a few characteristically cantankerous exchanges fuel the conversation. Legal expert Anastasia Bowden joins to analyze the Supreme Court’s considerations regarding presidential authority to implement tariffs. The team also waxes nostalgic about classic toys, and as always, lampoons modern culture and politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Hot Modern Dating “Trends” (03:08 – 12:07)

The Trends:

• Shreking: (03:36) Intentionally dating someone you don't find attractive (like “Shrek”) because you think they’ll treat you better.

  • Jack Armstrong (04:05): “The fact that you are lowering your standards because you think he'll be... feel so lucky to have you that he treats you better... is about as disgusting a philosophy as I can imagine.”
  • Joe Getty (03:58): “That’ll go great for a healthy relationship.”

• Throning: (04:29) Dating someone to boost your own social status.

  • Katie Green (04:29): “Throning is when you date someone to raise your own social status. So the goal is to land a partner with clout.”
  • Jack Armstrong (05:18): “Where that crosses into throning? I don’t know.”
  • Katie Green (05:23): “If a person seems overly focused on your status or your social circle and changes their behavior depending upon whether you're in public or private, this can indicate throning.”

• Banksying: (06:03) Withdrawing emotionally from a partner without explanation, like an elusive artist.

  • Joe Getty (06:22): “All right, this is ridiculous. Everything doesn't need a name. Everything isn't a trend.”
  • Jack Armstrong (06:53): “What Joe is doing is called rage talking.”

• Zip Coding: (09:23) Focusing your dating app search either only within or only outside your own zip code, sometimes to avoid being recognized (09:26).

  • Jack Armstrong (09:50): “That might fit in with the stat we had a while back of the percentage of people, particularly men, on online dating sites who are freaking married.”

• Monkey Barring: (11:22) Not letting go of one relationship until another is secured.

  • Katie Green (11:40): “People move from one partner to the next, only letting go of the previous once they've sealed the deal with their next one.”
  • Jack Armstrong (11:47): “Not a good idea according to any therapist. But Monkey Barring—yes.”

Hosts’ Take on Trends:

• Joe Getty (07:04): “When someone trains people inhaling, then exhaling when they’re done inhaling, it’s a new trend on TikTok.”
• The hosts mock the labeling of common behaviors as “trends” and express discomfort with the shallowness that current social media culture perpetuates.

Notable Moment:

• Katie Green (08:25): Jokes that Joe is heated while wearing his "cut the crap" T-shirt.
• Joe Getty (08:07): “We're too tolerant as a society. We've got to be less tolerant. That's ugly. It's stupid, it's shallow.”

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2. Infidelity and Dating Apps (10:00 – 11:14)

• The hosts discuss the surprisingly high number of married people on dating sites.
• Jack Armstrong (10:48): “Going onto a dating website with your picture and everything, while you're married, claiming you're single—how do you think that's going to end, you moron?”

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3. Where Relationship Culture is Heading (09:02 – 09:06)

• Jack Armstrong (09:02): “If our politics has gotten dominated by the worst among us, why wouldn't relationship trends get dominated by the worst among us?”
• Reflection on how both politics and relationships appear to be influenced by “the shallowest among us.”

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4. Political News, Redistricting, and Voting Structure (15:15 – 21:06)

• Pelosi’s retirement at age 86 is announced (15:17).
• Discussion on the flaws in redistricting and districting criteria (“the big six”—16:10).
• Math-oriented approaches to redistricting and proportional ranked-choice voting (STV) are explored.
  • Joe Getty (17:12): “Not to be confused with STD...”
  • Praise of Portland’s council elections using this system.
• Hosts critique the unchanged size of the House of Representatives since 1913, suggesting it's outdated considering the population (18:11, 20:36).

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5. Supreme Court Focus: Presidential Emergency Powers & Tariffs

Main Segment with Anastasia Bowden (25:26 – 33:16)

Background:

• The Supreme Court is hearing arguments about whether the President (specifically Trump, in this example) can unilaterally impose tariffs as an "emergency" measure via the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.

Key Takeaways:

• Three Justices likely to side with executive power: Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh.

• Three against: Jackson, Kagan, Sotomayor.

• Three toss-ups: Gorsuch, Barrett, Roberts.

• Jack Armstrong (27:00): “If you buy [Trump’s] reasoning, a Democratic president could declare a climate emergency and put all kinds of penalties on all kinds of things in the same way. … Nobody—no conservative—should want that.”

• Anastasia Bowden (29:31): “What's to stop a President from going even further? ... This would effectively be a blank check to the President.”

Concern Over Precedent:

• Joe Getty (30:09): “Just the phrase ‘emergency powers’ should send every American to grab their Gadsden flag and wave it around.”
• Anastasia Bowden (32:25): “One of the most famous statements from constitutional law… is that emergency powers beget emergencies. The more you hand this power over, it will be used not just during the administration you favor, but the next.”

Unwinding Illegal Tariffs:

• Jack Armstrong (31:25): “Who gets it? The guy who bought the truck that cost $1,000 more or the Ford dealer…? I mean, I can’t imagine how you would unwind that.”
• Anastasia Bowden (31:53): “It’s a logistical nightmare. But the answer... ‘Hey, Congress can fix this later.’ That should not be a reason to rule against this.”

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6. Toy Hall of Fame: Battleship, Slime, Trivial Pursuit

(36:36 – 37:36)

• This year’s inductees: Battleship, Slime, Trivial Pursuit.
• Joe Getty (36:48): “Sold 100 million of these.”
• Jack Armstrong (37:26): “That's probably why I got absolutely childish. Yeah, that toy is childish.”
• The hosts riff on political over-analysis of toys, e.g., “I don't think they should sell Battleship because it teaches militarism to children.” (37:39)

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7. Listener Feedback, Trump, and Tariffs (37:50 – 38:59)

• Responding to a listener who feels tariffs are crucial for U.S. business revival.
• Jack Armstrong (38:36): “What if you’re a company that’s already, you know, bought the land… because you decided the only way to compete is to bring [production] back to the U.S. … and then it turns out the tariffs are illegal and your competitor didn’t do that?”
• Joe Getty (38:59): “You just excused a Democratic far left president from doing anything they want, exceeding their constitutional powers if their goal is noble. That’s not the way it works, brother or sister or neither or both. It's a thing these days.”

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8. Comic Relief & Edgy Humor (39:12 – 40:53)

• Sharing a daring joke by Greg Gutfeld about New York City and 9/11.
  • Jack Armstrong (39:32): “Oh, it’s a joke.”
  • Joe Getty (40:04): “Yeah, that’s a joke, but not a funny one. It’s a surprising one and a shocking one. It’s making a statement.”
  • Reflections on how time affects whether tragedies become acceptable joke material.

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9. Tesla Shareholder News & Political Satire (40:53 – 41:34)

• Tesla shareholders approve a massive pay package for Elon Musk; hosts mock “commies” who object, and discuss Tesla’s shift toward robotics and AI.
  • Joe Getty (41:17): “Shut up, commies.”

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On shallow dating trends:
  Joe Getty (06:34): “Slowly withdrawing because the fire is gone. That's called a relationship ending. I'm going to speak for our listeners. This is ridiculous. Everything doesn't need a name. Everything isn't a trend.”

• On social media’s effect:
  Jack Armstrong (09:02): “If our politics has gotten dominated by the worst among us, why wouldn't relationship trends get dominated by the worst among us?”

• On emergency powers and the Supreme Court:
  Anastasia Bowden (32:25): “One of the most famous statements from constitutional law… is that emergency powers beget emergencies.”
  Joe Getty (30:09): “Just the phrase ‘emergency powers’ should send every American to grab their Gadsden flag.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:08 — Modern dating trends breakdown
• 06:03 — “Banksying” and reactions; Joe’s “rage talking”
• 09:23 — “Zip coding”, infidelity, dating app dynamics
• 15:17 — Pelosi retirement and political news
• 16:40 — Redistricting and voting reform discussion
• 25:26 — Start of Supreme Court/tariff powers segment
• 27:28 — The “mic drop” moment on presidential powers
• 29:53 — Who’s likely to side with government/executive
• 31:25 — Tangled issues in unwinding tariffs
• 32:25 — “Emergency powers beget emergencies”
• 36:36 — Toy Hall of Fame segment
• 37:50 — Listener feedback and tariffs debate
• 39:12 — Greg Gutfeld’s edgy joke and discussion
• 40:53 — Tesla shareholder news, AI direction

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Tone & Style

In trademark Armstrong & Getty fashion, the episode blends quick-witted sarcasm, skeptical humor, and a deep libertarian streak—especially suspicious of trends, overreaches of power, and self-important narratives. Guest Anastasia Bowden’s appearance brings sharp legal insight and a more measured, analytical tone during the Supreme Court segment.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is as much cultural commentary as current affairs. It covers how society labels common behaviors as “trends,” questions the wisdom of unchecked executive power, and indulges in nostalgia with the Toy Hall of Fame. The Supreme Court segment is particularly informative for those interested in separation of powers and economic policy. Armstrong & Getty’s irreverent take ensures a lively, engaging listen peppered with pointed jabs, laugh-out-loud moments, and legal substance.

Transcript

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty. If there is no deal to reopen the government, the FAA is mand airlines reduce flights by up to 10% at 40 of the country's busiest airports. Multiple airline officials now tell me the Trump administration will start this off at about a 4% cut, then ramp this up to 10% through next week. So yeah, it's 4% today, a couple hundred flights. If the shutdown continues, it'll go up, up, up and by next Friday it'll be 4,500 flights. And so it started today and we'll keep our eye on that and have more on that later. The Armstrong and Yeti store is open for Christmas season. I get uncomfortable talking about this. I don't know why. Something about having my name on something you buy for Christmas makes me uncomfortable. Even though I know, a lot of you want it and you get. People are fans of the show and they would like it, but we now have Armstrong and Getty pickleball paddles, among things.

[Joe Getty]

Wait a minute.

[Jack Armstrong]

Among other things in our store, you go to Armstrong and getty.com on one of those coffee mugs, water bottles.

[Joe Getty]

I'm telling you, the Effyolican party T shirts.

[Jack Armstrong]

I want a hoodie that says starve the lazy. That's what I want.

[Joe Getty]

Yes. Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

So it's Friday. I don't know if that means you're more likely to date or wish you had a date probably. But it seems like a good time to check in on hot dating trends with Katie Green. Katie. Oh, geez.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, boy.

[Jack Armstrong]

I set it up like a cable news segment.

[Katie Green]

Yeah, that was great. This is from the USA Today talking about. Dating trends have reached new lows this year. One of the new ones that we haven't talked about is called throning.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, let's, let's start with Shreking, the one we have talked about just to get it out of the way.

[Katie Green]

Okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is you intentionally date. It's usually women dating guys. You intentionally date a guy you don't find attractive, like he's a Shrek looking character because you think he'll treat you better.

[Katie Green]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which is one of the worst things I've ever heard in my. Because he's so. He, he, he's feels like he's so lucky to have you, he will treat.

[Joe Getty]

You to hang on to you. Yes, yes, that's great basis for a healthy relationship. Yes, that'll. That'll go great.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the fact that you are God, every bit of every phrase that comes to mind, I'm horrified by the fact that you are lowering your standards because you think he'll be. Feel so lucky to have you that he treats you better than someone else is about as disgusting a philosophy as I can imagine. But that's Shreking. Okay, so now what the hell is throning?

[Katie Green]

So throning is when you date someone to raise your own social status. So the goal is to land a partner with clout so that your own image gets a boost.

[Joe Getty]

I think that every celebrity in the world knows what that's about, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

That's probably. Well, it depends on how much if that's your main motivation. Obviously that's an odd way to go about getting relationships. But I think in general, people want to be in a relationship with somebody that is, you know, a good example of society. Right? I mean, isn't that just in general, you're hoping you date somebody, that if your friends or family met them, they think, well, they are very. They're very, you know, contributing member of society.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Where's more calculating than that?

[Jack Armstrong]

Where that crosses into throning? I don't know.

[Katie Green]

Yeah, this. This came from some tiktoker who talks about dating. Says if a person seems overly focused on your status or your social circle and changes their behaviors towards you depending upon whether you're in public or private, this can indicate throning.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Many years ago, I was driving a really nice car at the time, and I had a girl on, like, the second date or whatever say something to me. I picked her up in a different vehicle than my really nice car, and she said, I'd kind of prefer to be seen in your other car when you picked me up. And I thought, okay.

[Announcer]

Whoa.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, this isn't a good idea.

[Katie Green]

The next one they have here is Banksying, which derives its name from the elusive street artist Banksy. Like a baffling Banksy art piece, Banksying in a relationship involves slowly withdrawing emotionally from your partner without telling them what you're doing.

[Joe Getty]

All right, this is ridiculous.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why are you doing this? Is this to make them want you more or are you just trying to get out of the relationship?

[Katie Green]

This seems like a really elusive way to get out of a relationship. Is what they're calling Banksying now.

[Joe Getty]

Slowly withdrawing because the fire is gone. That's called a relationship ending. I'm going to speak for our listeners. This is ridiculous. Everything doesn't need a name. Everything isn't a trend. Slowly deciding this isn't for me is not a trend. It's been a trend since we crawled from the primordial ooze. I'll not have this foolishness.

[Jack Armstrong]

What Joe is doing is called rage talking.

[Katie Green]

Right?

[Joe Getty]

Popular thing now with trend on TikTok. Middle aged. Right. Cold warrior to do with the Cold War.

[Jack Armstrong]

When middle aged men get fed up with modern trends, they do something called rage talking. It's not a trend. Self claiming it's a trend.

[Joe Getty]

When someone trains people inhaling, then exhaling when they're done inhaling, it's a new train on TikTok.

[Katie Green]

Only our listeners can see how red you're getting. This is incredible.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Just in time for the Christmas.

[Katie Green]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

This was supposed to be fun.

[Katie Green]

Yeah, right. You're supposed to lighten things up here. When someone employs the Banksying technique, it says they start destroying the relationship before the other person even sees it coming. Because Banksy selfish again.

[Joe Getty]

No, I'm sorry, this, this is dumb.

[Katie Green]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

All right. I had great promise. Like so many of my schemes in life, it had great promise at the.

[Jack Armstrong]

Beginning, I think, I think, I hope Shreking is not a very popular thing.

[Katie Green]

But it's the only one that stuck around for a while is Shreking. I haven't heard of any of these until this stupid article.

[Jack Armstrong]

You are such a.

[Joe Getty]

Can we just. Awful. All of these things under the heading, here's what shallow, stupid people do.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know what?

[Joe Getty]

We're too tolerant as a society. We've got to be less tolerant. That's ugly. It's stupid, it's shallow. I, I, I weep for you that you didn't have a healthy relationship that you can use to model what your relationships are going to be like. If you're any of those things. Stop being it, Michael. Stop calling it a trend.

[Katie Green]

Michael or Jack, Are you guys both getting joy out of the fact that all of this is happening while Joe is wearing his cut the crap T shirt?

[Joe Getty]

Because that is. Yeah. Precisely.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, man.

[Announcer]

So.

[Jack Armstrong]

Everything being online and social media and people communicating with each other. I suppose, I suppose it would make sense. I hadn't thought about this before. This is just off the top of my head. But if our politics has gotten dominated by the worst among us, why wouldn't relationship trends get dominated by the worst among us? For exactly the same reasons.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. The worst or dopiest or shallowest among us. Yeah.

[Katie Green]

So there are, There are two more on this list. But I don't want Joe to explode, so I'm just gonna take one extra.

[Jack Armstrong]

Blood pressure pill and then Katie will finish this off.

[Joe Getty]

Very. Go ahead. Quickly. They're dumb like a medical procedure. The sooner we start it, the sooner it's over.

[Katie Green]

Zip coding.

[Joe Getty]

All right, what is. I can't even take it.

[Katie Green]

Yeah, brief version of that where people on dating apps will either stick only to their zip codes or stick only outside of their zip codes.

[Joe Getty]

What the hell I can say?

[Jack Armstrong]

See? Sticking to your zip code just because you want somebody near you.

[Katie Green]

But there are other people that look. Yeah, but there are other people that look specifically away from their own zip code, which would make more sense to.

[Jack Armstrong]

Men that might fit in with the stat we had a while back of the percentage of people, particularly men on online dating sites who are freaking married.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, I was told by a woman.

[Jack Armstrong]

The other day, she said you would not believe how many married men are on the dating website she's on. She meets them and they talk and they're gonna meet. Forgot about whatever it Is. And she does a little research on him and turns out they're married. Where she comes across husbands of her friends. Oh, gosh. And has to go tell their friends. Hey, you know, I hate to tell you this, but your husband's on match.com looking for dates, claiming he's single. I mean, that is so crazy.

[Katie Green]

There is an entire dating service dedicated to affairs.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Katie Green]

This. I mean, it came. This came out years ago, but. Ashley Madison.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, but the. Well, the idea is gross. You know, life is short.

[Katie Green]

Have an affair is their tagline.

[Jack Armstrong]

Practically the oldest thing in the world is the idea of an affair. But the idea that you're going onto a dating website with your picture and everything while you're married, claiming you're single, how do you think that's going to end, you moron? Not to mention the fact that it's an awful thing to do.

[Katie Green]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Embarrass your spouse horribly, publicly. I just. I can't even believe that. I mean, so if that's true, and like I said, I know somebody who's had this specific experience multiple times. If that's going on. Well, maybe these other stupid things are happening too. Zeppelining or whatever we were talking about.

[Katie Green]

Here's the last one. Deep breath. Okay. Monkey barring. It alludes to how in dating, people move from one partner to the next partner, only letting go of the previous once they've. Once they've sealed the deal with their next one.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think that's a common emotional technique.

[Katie Green]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Unfortunate.

[Katie Green]

Unfortunate also, but it's called monkey barring. Now, that's the trend.

[Jack Armstrong]

Not a good idea according to any therapist. But Monkey barring. Yes.

[Joe Getty]

Not everything needs a name. It's not a trend. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

I promise. An hour.

[Joe Getty]

Quit your job until you got another one lined up. Okay. All right. Okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, job's okay. I don't know about the relationships that. That. No. If you know you're done, you gotta tell them.

[Joe Getty]

You got it.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's true. You got it. That's. That's not cool.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

I promise. An hour. Three, to get to this New York Times article about people that are in relationships with their AHI chatbots. This is a serious piece of journalism. It's highly troubling, and I think it's going to be a huge topic for the next several decades. As long as mankind can survive it. And that might be just like 10 years. 15. So we got about 15 years, maybe.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong the Secretary of War announced another boat got blowed up down there by Venezuela. I think that's number 15 or something like that over the last several weeks.

[Joe Getty]

Yikes. They're serious about it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Got a few details on that. A lot of other stuff on the way. Stay here.

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[Joe Getty]

Some more news from Washington today.

[Jack Armstrong]

Nancy Pelosi announced that she won't seek.

[Joe Getty]

Reelection and plans on retiring in two years at the age of 86.

[Jack Armstrong]

Or as it's known in congressional terms, your tweens. And no kidding. 86. Damn near 90.

[Joe Getty]

That's wild. Wasn't paying attention. Was it wild?

[Jack Armstrong]

Nancy Pelosi. She'll be 86 when she's done. All right.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, 86. Yeah, yeah. So speaking of elections and that sort of thing, I've been reading about redistricting lately and how difficult it can be even if people are of good conscience. And they're not Gavinism, it's, you know, shameless partisan gerrymandering. And I've been reading about this mathematician whose gig is her field is trying to figure out how the heck to do redistricting in a fair and logical way. And she mentioned something that I found really intriguing. There are rules that vary by state, but they have what they refer to as the big six population balance, compactness, contiguity, meaning your neighbors, more or less respect for existing civic boundaries like counties, cities, towns, respect for communities of interest, racial fairness, etc. So there are a lot of layers to this. And obviously we don't do any of.

[Jack Armstrong]

Those things in most states.

[Joe Getty]

No, we certainly don't do them honestly or in a good way. And I thought this was really intriguing. I'm not sure it'll happen. I think it would take a, a constitutional amendment. But they're studying what they call proportional ranked voice ranked choice voting. Proportional ranked choice voting, also known as single transferable vote method or stv. In this scenario you have multi member districts using ranked choice. For example, because we talked earlier about California, it's 60, 40 Democrat to Republican. Well, if every district is 6040 Democrat to Republican, Republicans will have zero representatives in the House and that's a problem. So this stv, for example, not to be confused with std, something completely different. But rather than one representative per each of nine districts in Massachusetts, reduce the number of districts to three and have each elect three representatives by a ranking method. That way Massachusetts would probably get two or three rather than zero Republicans. In Washington, it's not common. The biggest American city that uses STV is Portland, Oregon. It was a great success in last November city council election. I'm told all kinds of groups were able to elect their preferred candidates in proportion to their voting numbers. Even though in a single neighborhood, they might be outnumbered. I thought that was intriguing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, if you. Yeah, but you start here. We've had 435 members of the House since 1913. That makes no sense. What was the population in the United States then? I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

I remember. I've seen those numbers that each representative went from representing, you know, 2500 people to now 450,000 or whatever it is. Those numbers are not right, but you get the idea.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, It's. It's a completely different situation. So in 1913, the population of the country was 97 million people.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now it's 340. So that makes no sense. What. You start there.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

We need. If we wanted to do it, if we thought that proportion was correct before, we need to have. And somebody figured this out. I heard it the other day. It might be this person you're quoting right here, because there's a book out about it. But we should have something like 590 House members, right?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And we're not even close. And so that. I think that's the place to start. Every. Every. Every member would have a much smaller population, and it'd be a lot easier, to be fair.

[Joe Getty]

Have to have Donald Trump blow out a wall of the Capitol and expand it, though. I mean, because you're not gonna fit all those people, plus paying all those damn salaries. Although, you know, as a fraction of the federal government that plays nothing but the.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, the original intent or the way it would have been a hundred years ago, you could have easily gotten a hold of your House member, had some sort of relationship with them if you wanted to get actual politics. That's impossible now. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Getting back to the STV thing, I really like the idea because the two states I'm most familiar with politically would be Illinois, my home state, and California, where the show is based and has been for decades now. And in both of those cases, you have populous cities that so dominate the state politics, they can do more or less whatever they want. And you've got these enormous swaths of conservatism in both states that. That go more or less unrepresented. Unrepresented. And I think if you added just a. Well, he'd have to draw those districts, too, and that would probably become every bit as corrupt and disgusting. But I like the idea anyway. Coming up, our friend from the Pacific Legal foundation on the big week at the Supreme Court. That's next segment. Stay tuned. If you can't grab the podcast, Armstrong, you get on demand later.

[Jack Armstrong]

On it's almost exactly 10 times since we first had 435 House members back in 1913. Back then each House member represented about 55000 people. Now each House member represents about 550000 people.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's a completely different structure.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

That's the first place to go to fix it as far as I'm concerned.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah. We got a lot of work to do.

[Jack Armstrong]

Supreme Court heard some important arguments this week. We talked about it a lot with the whole tariff thing. Is the President got the power to do that or not? If it turns out he doesn't, well, that's going to be a big change.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. Big doings at the scotus. We'll talk about it next. Stay with us.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Jack Armstrong]

I think she's an evil woman. I'm glad she's retiring. I think she did the country a great service by retiring. I think she was a tremendous liability for the country.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

And on Dick Shane.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think she was an evil woman who did a poor job who cost the country a lot in damages and in reputation. I thought she was terrible. That's not the way our politics used to be.

[Joe Getty]

When elders graciousness is a leader retires. I love to hear that.

[Jack Armstrong]

When elder statesmen used to step down on the other side you would, you know, the dedication to public service, blah blah blah. You'd say all this stuff even if you hated him. But we don't do that anymore for better or worse. And I go back and forth on Whether it's better or worse. I don't know. Maybe we're just saying the quiet power up part out loud now, but everybody was always thinking. She called him the other day vile and the worst thing on Earth. So right, there you go. That's where we are. That pretty much sums up where we are this week. You had from Nancy and Donald Trump, oh, he's vile. He's the worst thing on planet Earth. The worst thing on planet Earth. He said she's evil and corrupt.

[Joe Getty]

Fair enough. So we're trying to connect with Anastasia Bowdoin of the Pacific Legal foundation to talk about the Supreme Court this week, and we'll track her down quickly. But I saw this and was just amused by it on a couple of different levels. On election night, or I guess it was late Monday night, Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, tweeted when it was starting to look like mum Donnie was indeed going to win the election for mayor of New York. Abbott tweeted he would impose a 100% tariff on new Yorkers moving to Texas. After the polls close tomorrow night, I will impose 100% tariff on anyone moving to Texas from New York City, which. Jack, you're, you're smiling. Obviously. It's a joke. It's, it's funny. But here's why it matters. According to one publication, tariffs are taxes on goods, not people. And US States are not permitted to impose tariffs on imports from other states, let alone people who, furthermore, the Supreme Court has recognized the constitutional right to travel, et cetera, et cetera. And then they go into a bunch of people breathlessly angry online, both, you know, your, your unwashed masses and New York Governor Kathy Hochul, her press office. Well, that's actually kind of a funny response. Political commentator Ed Krassenstein. This is illegal. MAGA has become the party of violating the Constitution. Oh, boy.

[Jack Armstrong]

So there weren't a ton of people just reacted with, you can't put a tariff on a person, so that's not a thing.

[Joe Getty]

Right. It was a joke anyway. Oh, man.

[Jack Armstrong]

Speaking of terrorists.

[Joe Getty]

Outrage, real and manufactured. Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Speaking of tariffs, the oral arguments were this week before the Supreme Court to whether or not the President has the right to by himself upend the world economy the way it is. And now we're going to get an expert view on how that went based.

[Joe Getty]

On an emergency measure for executive power. Yes, indeed. Anastasia Bowden is a civil rights attorney at the fabulous Pacific Legal foundation, where she focuses on economic opportunity and equality before the law. Anastasia, great to talk to you again.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

How are you likewise. I'm doing well live from D.C. oh, excellent.

[Joe Getty]

Terrific. Don't let them steal your soul while you're there. So the oral arguments before the Supreme Court, lengthy and really interesting on the tariff case. What was your takeaway?

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Yeah, well, it's hard to get a read on the justices. They had really hard questions for Solicitor General John Sauer and, and his position on Trump's tariffs. Trump, of course, contends that he can pass these wide reaching tariffs that have been crippling American businesses under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. The challengers say there's no emergency because what's going on here is Trump has cited the longstanding trade deficit, which has of course been in effect for years and economically is irrelevant anyway. And he's also cited the opioid crisis, which again, longstanding for years. So it's not some new emergency to say that he can now pass these tariffs. So the challengers say, hey, no emerg in any way. This statute does not give you that broad of authority you can do. You can pass certain regulations, but you can't slap tariffs, on which tariffs are usually Congress's job. And so it was just really surprising that a lot of the justices had very tough questions for John Sauer. And it looks like, you know, I think there's three justices comfortably with the government, three justices comfortably with the challengers, and then three who are toss ups at the moment.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, to me, and I just read this yesterday, to me, the, the slam dunk was getting the lawyer arguing for Trump's side to admit the way he's looking at it, a Democratic president could declare a climate emergency and put all kinds of penalties on all kinds of things in the same way. If you're gonna buy his reasoning and nobody, no conservative should want that.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

That's exactly right. That was a mic drop moment. And questions came both from Justice Sotomayor and from Justice Gorsuch. So Justice Gorsuc, you know, who was a right appointed justice, had the same question, like, hey, didn't we just hear a case a couple terms ago where Biden declared a national emergency and then tried to alleviate magically with his pen student loan debt? And didn't we say that's too much? And now basically a president could do the exact same thing under your theory of the case. And so I think that's going to give many justices a tough time ruling for the president when that's now the consequence.

[Joe Getty]

And we also heard Elena Kagan tag teaming with Amy Coney Barrett on a different topic. I mean, trade, do you Think there are three justices that are comfortably with the government at this point. Who are they?

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

I think it's Justice Thomas, Justice Alito and Justice Kavanaugh. You know, they are traditionally in favor of broad executive power and deference to the executive. Even when there's declared emergencies that might not really be emergencies, but you kind of have to defer to the President's assessment that there's an emergency. And they had the easiest questions, I think, for. For the government.

[Joe Getty]

Well, if you're right, I mean, I.

[Jack Armstrong]

General, I generally agree with those guys, but that that'd be the end of the country if you could just declare practically anything an emergency and start.

[Joe Getty]

And levy taxes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Yeah, right. And that's, you know, that is a difficult thing. I mean, what's, what's to stop a President from going even further. And, and especially because, you know, this was one of the things the challenger said was, hey, tariffs raise revenue. So what's the difference between even tariffs and taxes at this point? Can the government just raise revenue? Can the President, I mean, just raise revenue? And the attorney for the government said, no, raising revenue is different. This actually isn't intended to raise revenue. It's intended to stimulate the economy. We don't care about revenue coming in. We care about stopping trade. So our purpose is different. And usually justices don't want to get in the business of making, you know, drawing that type of line. They're never going to come in and say, well, this one's different. This time you're not actually raising revenue, or this time you didn't mean to raise revenue. So it would effectively be a blank check to the President. And yet I think it's true those justices would rule for the President at this point. And then you have Justice Jackson, Justice Kagan, Justice Sotomayor comfortably against the government, and the other three are toss ups.

[Jack Armstrong]

I can come up with so many horrible examples of the way this could be used. Big school shooting gets lots of national attention. The Democratic President declares school shootings an emergency and puts a 500% tariff or tax or whatever on guns, for instance.

[Joe Getty]

Right, right. You know, I just. I believe Americans of good conscience should hear the term emergency powers and react as if their child had proposed getting a pet chimpanzee. It's an automatic no unless the case is made with brilliant clarity and bitter necessity, if you know what I mean. Just the phrase emergency powers should send every American to grab their Gadsden flag and wave it around. Anyway, Anastasia coming off of COVID Yeah, right. Oh, my God. Yeah. Or 9 11, you have overreach. It doesn't matter if it's your guy or the other guy, resist it.

[Jack Armstrong]

9, 11. All the things that got passed in the Patriot act after that that we didn't even know about. I mean, yeah, emergency powers are scary.

[Joe Getty]

Anastasia Bowden is with the Pacific Legal Foundation. Hey, one question that's been asked a lot about this case and Anastasia, if you have no idea, feel free to say so. Is if the court rules against those tariffs, what happens to all the money that collected?

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Yeah. And that, you know, that is a thing that the statute says it should be repaid. And that's something that the challengers are really worried about. Right. Because. Because that is gonna weigh on the justices mind. Are we really gonna put the government on the hook for, you know, millions, if not billions of dollars in taxes that now have to be paid?

[Jack Armstrong]

That's one problem. The amount is one problem. Who gets it? The guy who bought the truck that cost $1,000 more or the Ford dealer who. I mean, I can't even imagine how you would unwind that.

[Joe Getty]

Well, given the fact that we just discussed this, Anastasia, then I'll get out of your way. But we just discussed this the other day, that the tariffs, the cost of the tariffs are being picked up by a variety of actors in a variety of levels depending on what product you're talking about. So it's unbelievably complicated.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

It's a logistical nightmare. But the answer from the government or from the challenger oral argument was, hey, Congress can fix this later. Kick the cam. Let Congress kind of, you know, sweep that up later. We can all fix that. That should not be a reason to rule against this. And of course it shouldn't. If the law says that Trump and do this, it doesn't matter what the consequences are. You gotta, gotta invalidate the act.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I keep forgetting we have a Congress. They don't do much, so you don't notice them. Anastasia Bowdoin, anything else of note at the Supreme Court this week? This case kind of grabbed all the spotlights.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

That absolutely overshadowed everything. It was, it was anything. It was everything anybody was watching. I couldn't even get in. People had lined up the day before for oral arguments, but as you said, these emergency powers, they're on everybody's mind. It's one of the most famous statements from constitutional law, from a Supreme Court opinion that emergency powers beget emergencies. The more that you hand this power over, it will be used not just during the administration you favor, but the next administration. So it kind of dominated the headlines this week.

[Joe Getty]

Wow, that's great. And I think one of the justices actually said that during the oral arguments that emergency powers beget emergencies. You got a hammer, you start looking around for something. A hammer. It's just human nature. Anastasia Bowden of the Pacific Legal Foundation. Hey, thanks for the analysis. We really appreciate it and safe travels.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Joe Getty]

Of course. Love the Pacific Legal Foundation. They do great work.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is a problem. So in my mind, it's absolutely 100% clear we can't be giving in these emergency powers to Donald Trump because it'll come back. Oh, my God. If you're, if you're a Trump, the biggest Trump fan in the world, this will come back to haunt you in so many different ways.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

With the next Democratic president, you could so see a Joe Biden or a Barack Obama, especially when climate change was a lot hotter, if you'll pardon the expression, than it is now of like the prevailing wisdom. Oh my God, the taxes and tariffs and penalties you could have levied across the country with that as an emergency.

[Joe Getty]

To reward your cronies in the fake green energy world. I mean, not that all of green energy is fake. It's certainly not, but yeah, I mean, it could be just, oh my God, less power. Less power. Not more, but a little disturbed to hear the Cav rame go that way, but we'll see.

[Jack Armstrong]

But the other side of it being, well, then you gotta unwind this to the tune of billions of dollars. And there's no fair way you can do that because how about businesses who decided, well, I just ate it, you know, I just made less profits because I thought I needed to be more competitive with my prices than my opponent who raised the prices. So what do I get back?

[Joe Getty]

Right, right. And in most of these supply chains, there are two to five different entities that absorbed some or all of the cost from the exporter and the fur and land to the domestic consumer. So anyway, on the other hand, that's just that. What are you going to do? Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we decide to apply illegal tariffs, in my opinion.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I think I still don't quite have the answer on this. Why didn't the Supreme Court jump on this like the day after Liberation Day?

[Joe Getty]

I, I, we should ask Anastasia. She didn't know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Tim would know.

[Joe Getty]

You gotta, you gotta go through the motions. You gotta get standing and have a lawsuit filed and work its way up.

[Jack Armstrong]

You need a writ or a, oh.

[Joe Getty]

You need multiple, two or three briefs at the least.

[Jack Armstrong]

Everybody knows that okay, people are falling in love with their chat bots. They actually the New York Times had a serious article about that. I can't wait to get into that now. Or three. What a Weir story. Among other things on the way.

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[Joe Getty]

This one is the first one and it's a big deal because Battleship has been around for a long time. This was actually originally played with paper and pencil back for a long time ago and then slowly came along. This came along.

[Jack Armstrong]

Sold 100 million of these.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. So very, very popular and became one of the first electronic games.

[Jack Armstrong]

Here's another one inducted this year. Slime.

[Joe Getty]

Now this is post our childhood slime.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is made by a lot of people. So this is a general toy that.

[Joe Getty]

Got in the third one in the Tapper household growing up right there. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Trivial Pursuit.

[Joe Getty]

Trivial Pursuit.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the three toys going into the toy hall of Fame. I'm always surprised the ones that haven't already made it in there. But Battleship. You sunk my Battleship. Trivial Pursuit and slime. God did I love slime when it came out. Oh, we had so much fun with that in our house. What a great toy. They still make that? Or did they just.

[Joe Getty]

That's probably why I got absolutely childish. Yeah, that toy is childish.

[Jack Armstrong]

That toy that kid is playing with is childish.

[Joe Getty]

I don't think they should sell Battleship because it teaches militarism to children.

[Jack Armstrong]

Say we gotta. You suck.

[Joe Getty]

Colonial oppressor ideology. We gotta.

[Jack Armstrong]

We got a joke I want to get to but we got a you suck text that I want to address and we get. We get lots of them. So I can't get through them all. But you guys suck. Trump is building our economy and returning businesses to America through tariffs. That is the other example that forgot to mention that's one of the biggest problems. What if you're a company that has already, you know, bought the land or broken ground or dedicated $40 million to building a plant because you just decided, well, the only way I'm going to be able to compete is bring the plant here back to the United States here in Indiana instead of in Mexico or whatever with the new terrorists, blah, blah, blah. Like, like was the point of the tariffs for Trump. And then they, it turns out they're illegal and your competitor didn't do that.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, that's, I would say, friend, that we're not the ones that suck certainly at making arguments. You just excused a Democratic far left president from doing anything they want. Exceeding their constitutional powers if their goal is noble. That's not the way it works. Brother or sister or neither or both. So the thing these days.

[Jack Armstrong]

Got a joke to play for you from Greg Gutfeld last night. This is a pretty damned edgy joke. I, I guess it took a quarter of a century before you can make this sort of joke. You'll get it when you go ahead.

[Joe Getty]

True. Since Zoran won, there have already been a few minor changes to the city. And get this, and get this. LaGuardia Airport will now be offering direct flights into the Freedom Tower.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, it's a joke.

[Joe Getty]

It's a joke.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's an edgy joke.

[Joe Getty]

That's an edgy joke in New York. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And that's something though. It's like, other than that, how did he like to play Mrs. Lincoln? I mean, after a certain amount of time, a gruesome tragedy becomes something you can joke about out, but it takes a certain amount of time. I'd say with 911 it took like two decades.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that, that's a joke, but not a funny one. It's a surprising one and a shocking one. It's making a statement that that joke was a statement that many of us are highly concerned that someone who appears to be an out and out Islamist is sympathetic to the people who did what they did on 9 11.

[Katie Green]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Almost impossible to believe that he wasn't happy about that.

[Joe Getty]

What, 9 11?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

It was a tiny child. He would that his household felt like mom. Oh yeah. If he felt like he was safe, he would explain to you how the colonial oppressor us got what it deserved. Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

So he'd mentioned this during the week. Tesla shareholders did approve that record setting pay package for Elon Musk, granting him $1 trillion in additional stock if he hit certain milestones. The biggest package anybody's ever had out there is a bonus package. And I heard a bunch of communists yesterday arguing about it. Then, you know. And yet people are hungry in the streets. You know that.

[Joe Getty]

Shut up, commies. I think that honestly, that amazing amount of money obscures the more development, which is they have embraced Elon, turning Tesla into a robotics company. An AI. Shut up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Connie.

[Guest (Anastasia Bowdoin)]

Armstrong and Getty.

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This is an iHeart podcast.