The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Four

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand: The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Four
Release Date: November 28, 2024
Host: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Parenting Styles and Intergenerational Communication

Timestamp: [01:07]

The episode kicks off with Michael recounting an unsettling experience at a restaurant where he overheard a heated argument between a mother and her 13-year-old daughter. The daughter boldly told her mother to "shut up," leaving Michael both shocked and reflective.

Michael:
"And the mom didn't react, and they continued to argue, and my jaw dropped. Because when I was raised telling my parents to shut up, I mean, I've never done that. I have never in my life told my mom or dad to shut up in a serious manner."
[00:48]

This incident sparked a broader discussion among the hosts about whether telling parents to "shut up" is becoming normalized in modern parenting. Katie shares her perspective on how some individuals can easily tune out others' conversations, while others, like herself, find it challenging.

Katie:
"I easily can turn out conversations with me, but... you're either built that way or you're not."
[02:34]

Joe Getty adds to the conversation by emphasizing the generational shift in parenting dynamics, highlighting that while such behavior might rarely occur in his household, it represents a broader societal change.

2. "Gardener vs. Carpenter" in Parenting

Timestamp: [03:35]

Joe Getty introduces an insightful analogy from Alison Gropnik's book, "The Gardener and the Carpenter," contrasting two distinct approaches to parenting:

• Carpenter Approach:
  Parents see their role as builders, imposing structure and specific outcomes on their children. This method emphasizes precision, control, and adherence to predefined standards.

  Joe Getty:
  "Parents began to think like carpenters who have a clear idea in mind of what they're trying to achieve... Precision and control are her allies."
  [05:35]

• Gardener Approach:
  Parents adopt a nurturing role, creating an environment where children can organically grow and develop. This method values flexibility, allowing for unpredictability and encouraging children's unique paths.

  Joe Getty:
  "There's a better way to think about childrearing as a gardener... you don't have to be a perfectionist. Weed the garden, water it, step back."
  [06:55]

The hosts discuss the implications of these approaches, with Michael reflecting on how rigid, carpentry-like parenting can be detrimental, especially when dealing with children who have special needs.

3. Arguing with the Unyielding: The Donkey and the Tiger Parable

Timestamp: [11:27]

A thought-provoking parable is presented, involving a donkey, a tiger, and a lion—the king of the jungle. The donkey insists that "the grass is blue," leading to a heated argument with the tiger, who contends that "the grass is green." Unable to resolve their differences, they seek arbitration from the lion.

Joe Getty:
"The lion replied, if you believe it is true, the grass is blue... The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass."
[12:23]

The parable serves as a metaphor for engaging with individuals who are steadfast in their beliefs despite contradictory evidence. The hosts explore the futility of arguing with such "donkeys," emphasizing the importance of recognizing when a discussion is unproductive.

Katie:
"Do not... argue with some people about some topics. There's no point."
[15:58]

4. Reflections on Aging: John Cougar Mellencamp vs. John Prine

Timestamp: [24:00]

The conversation shifts to personal reflections on aging, prompted by recent appearances of musicians John Cougar Mellencamp and John Prine. Katie contrasts Mellencamp's apparent bitterness about getting older with Prine's serene acceptance.

Katie:
"John Prine had what I hope I can have when I'm old... but John Mellencamp was clearly bitter. It went by too fast, sad."
[25:18]

Joe Getty and the other hosts delve into whether such attitudes toward aging are innate or can be shaped over time. They discuss the role of genetics and personal experiences in fostering either a cheerful or a resentful outlook on growing older.

Joe Getty:
"All of us attribute our good qualities to choice and our bad qualities to genetics."
[26:37]

5. Stories of Fathers Teaching Through Sports

Timestamp: [32:28]

Heartwarming stories emerge as Tristan Cass shares his father's unconventional yet impactful coaching methods from his youth sports days. His father emphasized responsibility and resilience, even going so far as physically removing him from the dugout to teach a lesson in accountability.

Tristan Cass:
"My dad taught me a super valuable lesson that not a lot of people know. I had a responsibility to my teammates... give my best effort, no matter how I was feeling on the bench."
[32:28]

Joe Getty and Michael contribute their own anecdotes, highlighting how their fathers pushed them to perform and overcome challenges without offering easy reassurances.

Joe Getty:
"Parenting is a lot like coaching. If you think it's as mathematical and cut and dried as carpentry, you're going to do it wrong."
[09:26]

6. Satirical Clip: Future of Parenting

Timestamp: [36:52]

A satirical audio clip humorously depicts a future scenario where parents use overly cautious and politically correct language, leading to communication breakdowns between parent and child.

Clip Dialogue:
"Hey, non-binary offspring. Hey, non-gender specific parent. Just wanted to let you know that dinner is ready. If you consent to it, of course."
[36:52]

The hosts react with amusement and slight bewilderment, using the clip to underscore their skepticism about excessive political correctness in parenting.

Katie:
"I don't know if I'm triggered or offended. I don't know what I'm feeling anymore."
[37:55]

Joe Getty:
"It's a parable, you numbskulls. Come on over my head."
[16:21]

7. Recurring Themes and Key Insights

Throughout the episode, several recurring themes emerge:

• Adaptability in Parenting: Emphasizing the need for flexibility and understanding individual children's needs rather than adhering rigidly to predetermined methods.

• Importance of Responsible Communication: Recognizing when discussions are unproductive and choosing not to engage with individuals who are unwilling to consider alternative viewpoints.

• Acceptance vs. Resentment in Aging: Highlighting how personal outlooks on aging can significantly impact one's happiness and fulfillment in later years.

• Role of Fathers in Shaping Character: Celebrating the influential role fathers play in teaching resilience, responsibility, and perseverance through life lessons embedded in everyday activities like sports.

Notable Quotes

• Jordan Peterson:
  "To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful."
  [00:05 & 18:11 & 38:40]

• Joe Getty on Parenting as a Gardener vs. Carpenter:
  "If you think it's as mathematical and cut and dried as carpentry, you're going to do it wrong."
  [09:26]

• Katie on Arguing with the Unyielding:
  "There's no place in time or space where donkeys and lions have been in the same orbit, is there?"
  [16:03]

• Michael on Overhearing the Argument:
  "Nuts."
  [01:22]

Conclusion

In "The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Four," Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty navigate through complex topics surrounding parenting, communication, and personal growth. Through engaging conversations and relatable anecdotes, they offer listeners thoughtful insights into fostering healthier relationships and embracing the inevitable changes that come with aging. The episode underscores the importance of adaptability, empathy, and self-awareness in both parenting and personal development.

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Listen to the full episode of The Armstrong & Getty Show on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform to gain deeper insights and join the conversation.

Transcript

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, it's Jay Shetty with On Purpose. My newest episode is out now with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. And now he.

[Jordan Peterson]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Katie]

Okay, we're Armstrong and Getty. We're featuring our podcast One More Thing. Find it wherever you find all your podcasts.

[Michael]

This blew my mind the other day. My husband and I went to a restaurant, and we're sitting there eating, and I could just overhear the conversation happening next to me. It's a mom and her daughter who's maybe 13.

[Katie]

Are you maybe. Are you a person that can tune out people next to you or can't.

[Michael]

Tune out people I cannot see? Nuts.

[Katie]

I easily can turn out conversations with me, but, like, I have friends and family members who. Who can't. And you can't talk to them if there's someone else talking over there because they can't stop listening to them. It's. I guess you're either built that way or you're not.

[Joe Getty]

I have a very hard time tuning out extraneous audio.

[Michael]

Yeah, same here. So. And I couldn't tune this out at all. And again, she was maybe 13, and they were talking about something and they weren't agreeing. And this little girl goes, shut up, mom. And the mom didn't react, and they continued to argue, and my jaw dropped. Because when I was raised telling my parents to shut up, I mean, I've never done that. I have never in my life told my mom or dad to shut up in a serious manner. There was one time my dad and I were joking around and I accidentally went, shut up. And I stopped dead in my tracks in fear because I was like, I know those words aren't uttered, right? Yeah, but I know parenting is changing. Generate generationally. Is that okay? Now? Is telling your parents to shut up like a normal thing? Jack, have your kids ever dared?

[Katie]

One kid did once, but. Yeah. No, that was not okay. It did not go well.

[Michael]

Okay. Because.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Michael]

I just. I don't know if there's if that's a shift that's happening where the way you talk to your parents is changing, but the way that the mom didn't react, I'm sitting there going, what?

[Katie]

I wouldn't take it in any tone, but was the tone kind of like the Valley girl? Oh, shut up.

[Michael]

No, they were. They were having a serious conversation.

[Katie]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Shut your pie hole. Yeah. Yeah. So that certainly would not have washed in my house. I think one of. One of the kids may have tried it at one point, and it went very poorly. But how long's a generation?

[Katie]

They usually say 20 years.

[Michael]

Yeah, I think.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, well, all right, then. Well, at least my oldest kid and your youngest kid. I raised my kids during the previous generation, which is kind of funny, but.

[Katie]

Shut up still does not fly with anybody. I know.

[Joe Getty]

I don't think if it does, you need to take a parent in class.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Katie]

Like, Kevin Hart's got a bit where he's talking about how it turns out he was mistaken, but he thought his kid. He was yelling down to his kid to do something. He thought his kid yelled f. You said the words to him. And he just like, gets like, what. What just happened here? And the crowd just goes berserk about the idea of a kid saying that to their parent, which I was happy to hear that that was just, like, roundly seen as, oh, my God, a nuclear bomb just went off. That is not okay. How is he going to react to this? It turns out he misheard his kid over something like that. But. Yeah. No, shut up. Is. Is not. Not okay in, but any world I know of.

[Michael]

Okay. That brings me some comfort because the kid. The girl was similar to your kid's age, and I was. But the fact that the mom, I mean, she just took it.

[Katie]

Oh, boy. That I feel bad for both of them because almost guaranteed that's a bad situation either happening or going to happen.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. I remember back when I was raising my kids and would talk about it on the air and people would call in, you know, write in with questions and that sort of thing. What I thought. And a number of times I thought my first piece of advice is get a time machine, because you're asking me, how do I undo 14 years of getting it wrong? And, yeah, you know, it's like after your fifth heart attack, saying to your doctor, you know, well, it's. You know what I'm saying? I came across a great thing on parenting that I was going to edit for the show because it's long, but I wish, wish, wish I'd read It when my kids were young. Jonah Goldberg actually wrote it. He's quoting a bunch of other people, but he's talking about how there's a new book by a developmental psychologist who I'd never heard of before, Alison Gropnik. But the name of the book is the Gardener and the Carpenter. And she points out that the very word parenting really only emerged in the 50s and didn't become popular until the 70s. Because until the 50s people generally lived in their hometown near all their relatives and they would just observe and everybody was there to help. And you didn't have to learn about parenting. It was self evident, you saw it all the time and your mentors were around you anyway. But then in the 70s, people got more isolated, more mobile, they moved away and that sort of thing. And you had these parenting experts pop.

[Katie]

Up and often with no kids or bad kids.

[Unknown]

That's right, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, there's plenty of that too. But Ms. Gropnik says that parents began to think like carpenters who have a clear idea in mind of what they're trying to achieve. They look carefully at the materials they have to work with and it's their job to assemble those materials into a finished project or product that can be judged by everyone against clear standards. Are the right angles perfect? Is the door work? Grop Nick notes that the messiness and variability are a carpenter's enemies. Precision and control are her allies. Measure twice, cut once, et cetera. And her thing. And I've got to admit, I don't want to get too deep into this because it's incredibly serious and will make me very sad. But I had. I was influenced by a columnist who is a so called parenting expert and he was very much of the carpenter school. And when I ran into a kid with special needs, specifically on the autism spectrum, that was the last thing I needed. The last thing I needed was a carpenter's point of view about parenting. And Ms. Gropnik's thing here, and I haven't read the book, is a better way to think about childrearing is as a gardener, your job is to create a protected and nurturing space for plants to flourish. It takes work, but you don't have to be a perfectionist. Weed the garden, water it, step back, and the plants will do their things unpredictably and often with delightful surprises. And it's not like a hippie dippy, anything goes. She's talking about weeding the garden and doing what needs to be done. But you're not a carpenter, you're a gardener.

[Unknown]

What exactly is the carpenter's way. I don't know what you're talking about. As far as the carpenter's view, would.

[Katie]

It be fair to say it's just like. There is one way to do it, one size fits all, to get this to come out right?

[Joe Getty]

Essentially, yeah. It's cut and dried. There are a list of rules. You follow them, it'll be fine. As opposed to a garden where it's much more about nurturing than forcing that it's absolutely inevitably going to go sideways at times. If you're a good carpenter, it doesn't go sideways. You can make cabinet after cabinet after cabinet. And if a mistake is. Or if something goes wrong, that's utterly unacceptable. Whereas as a gardener, something's always going to go wrong. That's what the job is.

[Michael]

And you have to adapt.

[Katie]

Yeah. The only thing I could say to your situation, you overheard Katie, because I've kind of lived this myself, is I've got one kid that's got all kinds of diagnosed things and on all kinds of medication and all kinds of things. He has said and done things that if his brother did them, it would be the end of the world. But the kid that's got all these various situations, he's not always in control of everything he does. And also, if you react a certain way, you're about. I mean, she might have a kid that. If she had said anything to that kid at that moment about that, the table's getting flipped over. I mean, the police are coming, that sort of thing.

[Joe Getty]

Possibly.

[Katie]

I don't know that that's.

[Michael]

I don't even think of that possible circumstance that there could have, you know, that that girl could have had that problem.

[Joe Getty]

Final bit of wisdom learned too late, at least partially, is when I first became a youth sports coach. I think I went. I can't remember where this came from, but it was pointed out to me that you don't coach all of your players the same. You coach all of your players the way they need to be coached. Some kids respond well to, like, the old school discipline, to bark at them. Some, because some kids shut down and you're not going to make them a better player, a better person doing that. You got to figure out how to pick their locks. And parenting is a lot like that, too. If you think it's as mathematical and cut and dried as carpentry, you're going to do it wrong.

[Katie]

So how did the things turn out with the woman and the kid who said shut up? Did they just eventually, did they stop talking or did they eventually get up.

[Michael]

And leave, or they went back and forth for like, maybe another 30 seconds, and then their food came. And I. I checked out of that conversation pretty much. But, yeah, it shocked me. But I like that gardening analogy because that. That makes more sense that you're going to have more room to kind of wiggle when things go awry.

[Katie]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about that mom dealing with her kid, but, like, I only think about my parenting roughly 80% of the time all day long. So.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, that's not to say there are no rules in gardening. For instance, if you feed Gatorade to plants, they will die, as outlined hilariously in the classic movie slash documentary Idiocracy.

[Katie]

All right.

[Joe Getty]

Of course, that, that. It wasn't Gatorade. It was called. What? Brauno Brondo.

[Katie]

Electrolytes.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, it's got electrolytes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, the Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Katie]

Hey, we're Armstrong and Getty. We're featuring our podcast. One more thing. Find it wherever you find all your podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

I came across this parable, and I'm not exactly sure what to think about it. I think I know what to think, but I thought it was entertaining. The donkey told the tiger, the grass is blue. The tiger replied, no, the grass is green. The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration. So they approached the lion, who apparently is in charge, course, King of the jungle, king of the beasts.

[Katie]

Sure, donkey. Donkeys and lions cohabitating, all right.

[Joe Getty]

And getting in arguments with tigers. Anyway, as they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming, your Highness. Your Highness, isn't it true that grass is blue? The lion replied, if you believe it is true, the grass is blue. The donkey rushed forward and continued, the tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. They should have thrown it. It's a microaggression. Please, please punish him.

[Michael]

He's triggering me.

[Joe Getty]

Exactly. Yeah, I gotta rewrite this to make it even more sickening. Let's see. The king then declares speech. The tiger will be punished with three days of silence. Gotta keep his giant batoothed mouth shut. That's the punishment. The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating, the grass is blue. The grass is blue. The tiger asks the lion, you, Majesty, why have you punished me? After all, the grass is green. The lion replied, you've known and seen that the grass is green. The tiger asked, so why do you punish me? The lion replied, that has Nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass. And on top of that you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true. The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about the truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on discussions that make no sense. There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand others who are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment. And the only thing that they want is to be right, even if they aren't. So arguing with the actual donkey, the donktivist, if you will, I can see why it.

[Katie]

I won't.

[Joe Getty]

I can say I like. A great example of this is when you have the two activist groups screaming at each other in the street over the barricades and the poor cops are rolling their eyes thinking, oh my God, I hope I go home without getting hit over the head with something that's stupid. But if the donkeys of the world have like taken over your public school, don't you have to, as the lion point out, that they're teaching the lion cubs perverse things?

[Katie]

Does it ever do any good? I'm not sure it ever does any good.

[Joe Getty]

Like you just. Of course it does.

[Katie]

Well, you have to. Well, you're not going to convince them. You just have more people. I guess. I guess the thing would be if you got other people like witnessing this and you've got to convince them, but convincing the one, the one person, they're not going to change their mind.

[Joe Getty]

Well, right. And that's what bothers me a little bit about this parable, and it's thought provoking anyway, is if you go, if you as the tiger, for instance, saying confused adolescent girls should not be told they're actually little boys because puberty is scary, especially for girls. If you are the tiger advocating that and you go to the lion of the electorate, that's what you have to do. I mean, if it's just a story about animals in the forest at each other, then it's not a parable, it's just a mildly amusing story. But if it's a parable, it obviously has something to do with humankind. And if you've got the donkey pitching that the grass is blue and it's like infected the public schools and your kids come home with a dad, you're Wrong. The grass is blue. And my teacher says you're a hater and a racist for saying that. You gotta go to the lion, don't you?

[Katie]

Well, yeah, I suppose, but I think the parable works for just individuals, which I was picturing. I wasn't picturing. The public square is just if I recognize the guy at the end of the bar is like the donkey about some topic, I'm not gonna engage them. What's the freaking point?

[Joe Getty]

Oh, I agree with that 100%. Katie, thoughts on the donkeys?

[Katie]

There's no place in time or space where donkeys and lions have been in the same orbit, is there?

[Joe Getty]

Unless the lion's already full, let alone.

[Katie]

Talking donkeys and talking lions.

[Michael]

Yeah, that's what I was stuck on.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Donkey and lion having a conversation. This is baffling.

[Katie]

Exactly.

[Joe Getty]

It's a parable, you numbskulls. Come on over my head.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, you're right. It's an individual thing. And fair enough. Yeah.

[Katie]

And very, very true. Do not. Well, I know some people feel. It seems like they enjoy it. There's no point in arguing with some people about some topics.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Well, and the fact that a lot of people just want to be quote unquote, they want to win the argument. They don't care if they're right.

[Katie]

It works both ways, too. I mean, sometimes I've been. I don't think I've ever said this, but I've been in conversation before where I could say, look, I've thought and read about this a lot.

[Joe Getty]

I.

[Katie]

Nothing's gonna change my mind. I mean, you can say it louder and slower if you like your opinion, but it's not gonna change my mind, so.

[Joe Getty]

Or you can hint that I'm an idiot for not agreeing with you. Right, but you're really wasting your time and mine, you donkey. Interestingly enough, Kentucky bluegrass is not blue either. It's slightly bluer.

[Katie]

I was disappointed in that. By a kid. As a kid, not by a kid. As a kid, when I heard about bluegrass, I thought, this is gonna be awesome. My dad got bluegrass for the yard. He didn't inform me that it's all.

[Joe Getty]

The other kids are going to be so jealous.

[Katie]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Grass is blue as merge Simpson's hair. This is gonna be great.

[Michael]

You guys just ruined my day. I didn't know this.

[Katie]

You didn't? All right.

[Michael]

No.

[Joe Getty]

Never been to Kentucky then, huh?

[Michael]

No, I have not. And I had all these dreams. I just pictured blue lawns everywhere. Ruined.

[Katie]

I pictured that, too. Yeah, I pictured that And I just had it in my mind. It looks so fantastic. Turned out not to be true.

[Joe Getty]

Blue birds are blue. Blueberries are blue. Those grass is green. It's wtf.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and.

[Jay Shetty]

Our hot [e-mail] My latest episode is with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to let go of? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from one of the.

[Joe Getty]

Most articulate men of our time, clinical.

[Katie]

Psychologist turned culture warrior, Dr. Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

The men who prefer short term mating opportunities are psychopathic, narcissistic, acubelian and sadistic. So one of the unintended consequences of the sexual revolution is that the freed up women have been delivered to the psychopathic men. Most people who have post Traumatic stress disorder don't have it because they were hurt. They have it because they encountered someone who wanted to hurt them.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Joe Getty]

This is the Armstrong and Getty show featuring our podcast One More Thing. Get it wherever you like to get podcasts.

[Katie]

So we're about to play a clip of John Cougar Mellencamp talking at a concert. Is this one of the concerts that he's doing with Willie Nelson and Bob Dylan, or is he on his own here?

[Unknown]

He's on his own here.

[Katie]

Okay, so he's touring with. I know he's going to be, I think, at the Hollywood bowl in la, which I'd like to see. Melon Head, Willie Nelson and the ancient Bob Dylan. Of course, Bob Dylan's not ancient compared to Willie Nelson, who just turned 90.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Katie]

It's got to be something when he sings. I was just reading a set list on these concerts and Willie sings among these classics. Funny how time slips away. Did it slip away? You've been 90 years. I don't think it slipped away. Something happened to you when you were 30. It was 60 years ago. It didn't just slip away, but I thought the set list would be interesting. It's not really. It's pretty much the songs you expect. Melon Head sings Pink Houses and, you know, that sort of stuff.

[Joe Getty]

I wonder why he's touring. A couple years ago he said he had no interest in being a jukebox. If People didn't particularly want to hear new music or new versions, old songs. That's fine. He had no interest in being a jukebox.

[Katie]

He did get a tooth knocked out by his kid like a year or so ago. Did that cause him any financial difficulties? He and his son got in a fistfight.

[Joe Getty]

I'd imagine he can afford basic dentistry, but I don't know. I have no idea of his financial wherewithal.

[Katie]

Why is Willie doing it?

[Joe Getty]

That's just what he does. I don't think he can imagine any other life.

[Katie]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

And like Keith Richards, the Rolling Stones. Why in the world would they play more shows, much less launch a giant tour?

[Unknown]

Well, I think Willie.

[Joe Getty]

That's what they do.

[Unknown]

Willie's paying off his tax debts, right?

[Katie]

I don't know if he still has.

[Joe Getty]

That, but that story was 30 years ago, Michael.

[Katie]

But he also. He travels with his sons. I've watched some of the videos from the bus, and his kids are like 60, so. But he travels with his sons who are in the band, too. So it's probably. Probably a pretty good time. I mean, what would be better than that, really? Actually, I can't think of anything that would be better than that. So. And then Bob Dylan. I don't know what Bob Dylan's doing. Yeah, he doesn't need the money or the acclaim or the. Maybe he likes hotels. I. I don't know. But John Cougar is on stage for a while and. Do we need to know anything else about that? This than that?

[Joe Getty]

No, he.

[Unknown]

He start. He's just talking to the crowd.

[Katie]

Okay, here we go.

[Unknown]

And she went. It's just like, he put it to his margot, like when I'm talking to Jesus. And then it got real.

[Katie]

No.

[Unknown]

What do you think? I mean, hey, Joe, find this guy and let me see him after the show anyway, before I was so rudely interrupted. Guys, I can stop this show right now and just go home. Since you've been so wonderful, I'm going to cut about 10 songs out of the show. Here we go. A little bit.

[Joe Getty]

So that's a tape of.

[Unknown]

Shows over.

[Katie]

Did he actually leave?

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Katie]

And he actually left.

[Joe Getty]

That's not cool. Don't let an a hole end the show. You heard that? The crowd was entirely on your side.

[Katie]

One guy, so he's into a story. Some guy yells, play some music, which is hurtful if you're telling a story that you think is either funny or important or something like that.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Katie]

And. But yeah, I think the rest of the crowd was at least willing to listen to your story, if not enthusiastic about it.

[Michael]

Yeah, that was weeks.

[Joe Getty]

No, it sounded like they were with them. They laughed at the joke and everything. It was just fine.

[Michael]

And some of them even went, ah, hey. At the guy who interrupted him. So.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, a lot of people did. Yeah.

[Katie]

So then he plays like six bars of Jack and Diane leaves. Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. He's old and bitter.

[Michael]

I didn't have time for that.

[Katie]

I have thought about this a lot. I. So on Charlie Rose, which I miss a lot. The TV show he had in the same week. I think John Mellencamp and John Prine, if you don't know Joan Prine, he was a very old singer songwriter who never had commercial success like John Mellencamp, but was hugely adored by people who like music. Anyway, he died Covid but had them on both that week. So they're both super old and at the end of their careers. And it struck me how John Prine had what I hope I can have when I'm old, but I don't think I can because I don't even have it now. He just had. He just had like a rye. This is kind of funny, isn't it? View of getting older. I mean, this is almost amusing what this is like the health problems and then this and the that and the kids and the marriage and just the way songs were like that too. But John Mellencamp was clearly a bitter. It went by too fast sad. And I relate to those feelings. But I just, you know, I wish. I wish I were still 30, you know, that sort of thing. And I thought those are. There's two really good examples. Has nothing to do with being famous. Of how you approach getting older. You either just accept it and kind of enjoy it and marvel at its everything that's involved or be really bitter that you're not 30 and cool anymore like Mellencamp was. And I just thought that was interesting. And I think you heard a little of it there.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I think. Well, let me start with this. Was playing golf the other day and we saw some distance away. A mutual friend talked about him a little bit. One of the most cheerful guys you've ever met. This guy wakes up in the morning cheerful. He goes to bed cheerful. He's just made like that. And it's. It's an amazing blessing.

[Katie]

And.

[Joe Getty]

And I commented to my buddy who also has more than one kid, I said, anybody who's raised multiple kids knows you come out of the womb like that or you don't. I've always said then. And this number is pulled out of my imagination that you got maybe about 15, 20% around the edges. You can push yourself in this way or push yourself in that way, but you are who you are. And I just. I don't know. Could John Mellencamp have ever been John Prine in his old age? Maybe. I don't know.

[Katie]

I don't know either.

[Joe Getty]

You're. You're.

[Katie]

I think you're right about that.

[Joe Getty]

And that 15 and 20%. You could either go 15% more bitter and awful.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Or 15% more cheerful and optimistic. And that. That makes a big difference in your life. I'm not saying it's insignificant. I'm just saying my buddy's name is Daniel. I was born annoyed. I'm never going to be Dan.

[Katie]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

And I love the guy and we're good friends, actually. I think my acerbic eye rolling view of the world is amusing to him and blah, blah, whatever, it works. But the one thing I know, and I try. I try to be honest about this with myself. All of us want. All of us attribute our good qualities to choice and our bad qualities to genetics.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

I got to admit, strength of character. Yeah. All the good things about me are because I chose to be that way and I worked hard to be that way.

[Katie]

I got to admit, when I was taking in the two different attitudes about growing older and your best days being behind you, I related the emotions of John Mellencamp a lot more than John. I'd like to be like John Pryne, but feel in my head, in my heart, more like John Mellencamp for whatever reason, because I think I'm born that way. I was just way I am.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. And then there's the question of epigenetics, which is one of my favorite things I ever learned. You have your genetics, but then you've got a bunch of things in your genes.

[Katie]

Try to end up with a half cat, half dog sort of situation. Is that what that is?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that's. That's right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's. There are, like, triggers that you have genetically, and if certain things happen to you or you run into them, that those switches might be flipped. But if you don't go through those things, they won't be. If your environment is. You have good nutrition or whatever, it'll never manifest itself. It's not like the entirety of who you are is determined by your genetics. Your experience in your life plays a role, too, in various ways. But, you know, we're at. In the early days of really understanding that stuff.

[Katie]

I just read. So they Both sang songs that week and John Prine's song at that time, this is the last album before he died, I think was When I get to Heaven and there's a line in there, something about I'm gonna kiss that pretty girl on the tilter whirl. I'm gonna smoke a cigarette that's nine miles long. It's, it's like looking back on the best parts of your life and wanting to relive them or getting to smoke cigarette again. And John, John Cougar had a line in his song and all your best efforts don't amount to anything anymore. And I thought, wow, that's just such two different views of where you are at the end of your career and one of you is happy and one of you is miserable. But like you said, maybe you can't control that. I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I don't know. That's interesting. Acceptance. Is that how much of that is inborn? Your capacity to just accept your life and it's reality.

[Katie]

I'm going to be a really bitter old person. I think I'm a pretty bitter young person.

[Joe Getty]

Believe that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

I can see that.

[Katie]

I will be quite self deprecating, but a bitter old person.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and.

[Jay Shetty]

Our hot [e-mail] My latest episode is with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to let go of? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from one of the.

[Joe Getty]

Most articulate men of our time, clinical.

[Katie]

Psychologist turned culture warrior, Dr. Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

The men who prefer short term mating opportunities are psychopathic, narcissistic, acuvalian and sadistic. So one of the unintended consequences of the sexual revolution is that the freed up women have been delivered to the psychopathic men. Most people who have post traumatic stress disorder don't have it because they were hurt. They have it because they encountered someone who wanted to hurt them.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast costs.

[Katie]

Hey, we're Armstrong and Getty. We're featuring our podcast One more thing. Find it wherever you find all your podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

Fathers get a day, but we get a month of Alphabet soup. I like to the alternate people what.

[Katie]

I don't think that's.

[Joe Getty]

What kind of society is this?

[Katie]

I don't think that's the point of Pride Month.

[Joe Getty]

And that's, with all due respect to my, my gay friends who are uniformly with the meme I saw the other day. LGB is all we need. The rest is not us.

[Katie]

Well, and it's not just a month. As you know, there are a whole bunch of other weeks and days around the same theme throughout the years. So it's not just a month, 240 days a year.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, but fathers get a day. And the reason that popped into my mind is we have some kind of Father's Day related stuff. And, you know, maybe it would have been better then, because fathers only get one day. Then you ought to shut up about the importance of fathers.

[Katie]

Hey, you weren't here on Friday when Katie and I and Michael had the discussion that we've had for many years of looking for a Father's Day card and trying to find one that's not a joke about flatulence or drinking beer or watching tv. Mother's Day cards are all, you know, there, there, there are some joke Mother's Day cards, but there's tons of how important and valued and crucial mothers are. Dad's Day cards are all jokes about. Yeah, what I just said.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah, very annoying. So anyway, why would be we be in the least hesitant to continue Father's Day thoughts or respect or that sort of thing? Let's begin with Clip Tenets, Tristan Cass, Cassis Casas. He's a Boston Red Sox player telling a story about his dad.

[Unknown]

So I'm in coach pitch. And you know, I'm so young, I don't really know what's going on at this point still. I'm still just playing baseball just to burn calories and get out there and get some sun. Right, right. And, you know, I get out one day and I come back to the dugout crying, pissed. And, you know, that's, that's what a six year old does. He sits on the bench and he cries and he doesn't want to go out there when, you know, his team's playing defense. So my dad, you know, being the dad that he is, trying to teach me the lessons that he did in his own special way, came into the dugout, he actually grabbed me by my shirt, dragged me to the line and Looney Tunes style kicked me out onto the field and actually had one of my best friends that I went to high school with. Later, he ended up playing pro ball. His mom actually called child services on my dad at the field. No, no, no. For real. This is no joke at the field. I see my dad go away in the cop car, gets arrested, send the night to jail. But that day. That day, my dad taught me a super valuable lesson that not a lot of people know. And it's that I had a responsibility to my teammates. I had a responsibility to my coaches, to the parents that showed up that day, all the fans who were at that Little League game, whatever it may be, to go out there and give my best effort, no matter how I was feeling on the bench, no matter what I was going through that day or whatever little hardship that I was feeling when I got out, that I still apply every single time. Because sometimes I just want to sit down on this bench after I get out.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I want to weave and I want to cry, but that's. That's not how baseball is. So, yeah, I love my dad to death. I wouldn't have this opportunity without him. But, yeah. Funny little excerpt. That's about. That's the type of guy my dad is. So.

[Katie]

That's true that.

[Joe Getty]

I like the Looney Tunes reference.

[Michael]

That is an amazing story that took a turn, though. She called cps and they actually spent.

[Katie]

The night in jail.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah. Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Did not see that coming. Wow. Yeah.

[Katie]

That is a good story. I also like the fact that he's six and he said the reason he was playing was to burn calories and to get some sun. I never thought about that when I was six. I better work off this Pop Tart.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. That second chocolate chip cookie was totally unnecessary. I'm gonna go play some baseball. Yeah, that's. That's funny. It reminds me of a conversation we've had before that, you know, the. And it's a cliche, and certainly the roles overlap, but when little Johnny skins his knee, mom is, oh, honey, oh, no. And Dad's like, you'll be fine. You'll be great. And that whole. And I remember my dad was my baseball coach a lot, too. And he would come out to the mound when I was pitching, and he. I've said this. Told this story before, too. He'd say, get this guy out or I'm going to Polya. And it wasn't cruelty. It was a way to focus me and to say, you know, you have a job to do here is what it is. I'm not out of here. I'm not out here to tell you everything's going to be okay. Because telling you go do it. Is telling you everything's going to be okay telling you you're fine, go run and play is it's empowering message to look at me, a man to man, even as like a 15 year old and say focus, get this guy out. That's it. That's a compliment.

[Katie]

Shift.

[Michael]

We've, we've experienced.

[Katie]

Yeah, I'd say, oh yeah, I can't.

[Joe Getty]

Plus you know, as I've said before, I was like, you damn right I'm getting this guy out. You're not pulling me. And it was just, it's. That's what coaching is. That's what man to man coaching is. Now it can cross the line into being an a hole if you're a bad coach. But I think it was a very good coach.

[Katie]

I don't know. Anxiety, it's going to cause anxiety.

[Michael]

My, this is reminding me of a story my dad told me. He played football in high school and my grandfather, his dad was a surgeon. And my dad took a cleat to the shin during a game and my granddad sewed him up in the, in the team, team locker room and then said get your ass back out there.

[Katie]

And this was during the civil war?

[Unknown]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Michael]

Might as well be mid-60s.

[Joe Getty]

On the other hand. Katie, do we need any Setup for clip 12?

[Michael]

No, this is just where we're headed if this woke crap continues.

[Unknown]

Hey, non binary offspring. Hey, non gender specific parent. Just wanted to let you know that dinner is ready. If you consent to it, of course. Um, I don't, I don't consent. Well, I was thinking maybe in an hour or so, if you're up to it, me and your other non gender specific parent can sit in the living room and breathe for a little bit. If it doesn't trigger you, of course. You know, I'm not sure if I'm triggered by that or offended. I quite honestly, I don't know what to feel anymore. Trust me, I don't know either, honey. Oh my God. Did you just call me honey? Oh my God, I am so sorry. That's harassment. Please don't tweet about this. I already did. Well, it looks like my career is over. Well, maybe think 20 times before you talk. We'll have to live on the streets. Well, that doesn't matter to me because my feelings are more important than all of our physical, well, beings. Okay, well, I'm going to go into the living room and cry.

[Joe Getty]

I love you.

[Unknown]

You don't have to say it back. I'm not going to.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. Parent and child in the year 2060.

[Katie]

That's pretty good.

[Michael]

I don't know if I'm triggered or offended. I don't know what I'm feeling anymore.

[Katie]

I can't believe that dude's dad spent the night in jail.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. All right, I gotta ask. How hard did he kick him? I don't know. The boy, looking back is. He's full of love and he did.

[Katie]

The right thing and laughing about it, so. Yeah, he does.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know.

[Katie]

That's crazy.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's quite a story.

[Unknown]

You know, they kicked each other pretty hard in those Looney Tunes cartoons.

[Joe Getty]

Occasionally. It was borderline brutality. Michael. You're quite right.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, it's Jay Shetty with On Purpose. My newest episode is out now with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from it.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.