The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Three

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand – The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Three

Release Date: November 28, 2024
Host: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Podcast: The Armstrong & Getty Show
Duration: 39 minutes

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1. Introduction to Swedish Death Cleaning (00:56 – 03:12)

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty delve into the concept of Swedish Death Cleaning, a decluttering philosophy inspired by an 89-year-old Swedish woman’s best-selling book. The discussion begins with a real-life scenario from a Washington Post article about a woman’s struggle to declutter her late mother’s one-bedroom apartment. Despite the apartment appearing manageable, the accumulation of possessions—particularly unworn clothes and stocked kitchen cabinets—proved overwhelming for the family.

Notable Quote:
Jordan Peterson (00:05): "To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful."

2. Personal Challenges with Decluttering (03:12 – 06:00)

The hosts share their personal difficulties with decluttering. Joe admits to being somewhat of a hoarder, struggling to let go of unused clothes despite recognizing their lack of utility. Katie echoes similar sentiments, particularly highlighting the emotional difficulty of discarding children's belongings, which are laden with sentimental value.

Notable Quotes:
Katie (04:26): "The really tough ones are kid stuff... how do I get rid of this book that I read to my kids every night?"
Joe Getty (05:32): "I’m probably almost certainly not going to wear [unused clothes], but I don’t get rid of them. I feel this pain getting rid of them."

3. Emotional Attachment to Possessions (06:00 – 09:55)

Joe Getty discusses the psychological underpinnings of hoarding, explaining that possessions often serve as extensions of our identities. This attachment can lead to significant emotional distress when considering decluttering. The conversation touches on the concept that materialism, driven by the pursuit of status or approval, correlates with increased loneliness and decreased happiness.

Notable Quote:
Joe Getty (07:44): "They [possessions] become a fortress. Physical barriers to ward off feelings of insecurity and loneliness."

4. Psychological Insights and Research (09:55 – 12:22)

The hosts reference scientific research highlighting how people subconsciously perceive their possessions as integral to their self-identity. This perception can escalate into pathological hoarding, where individuals cannot differentiate between meaningful items and trivial ones.

Notable Quote:
Joe Getty (08:20): "Materialism is unequivocally associated with more loneliness and less happiness."

5. Practical Tips for Decluttering (12:22 – 16:00)

The conversation shifts to practical strategies for Swedish Death Cleaning. The hosts recommend starting with large or duplicate items before moving to smaller, more sentimental possessions. Clothes are identified as an excellent starting point due to their typically limited practical or sentimental value.

Notable Quote:
Joe Getty (08:48): "Moving on, how does death cleaning work? By clarifying what's important and what's not, you make room for your loved ones."

6. The Challenge of Letting Go (16:00 – 23:00)

Joe and Katie engage in a light-hearted yet insightful discussion about the emotional barriers to decluttering. They share anecdotes about excessive sock collections and the irrational attachments to seemingly insignificant items. The dialogue underscores the difficulty in balancing practicality with emotional ties.

Notable Quote:
Katie (04:08): "But throwing some of that stuff out seems just wrong. How do I get rid of this book that I read to my kids every night for years?"

7. Transition to Photography and Photo Editing (23:00 – 29:45)

The hosts transition to the topic of photo editing, debating the ethics and psychological impacts of altering personal photographs. They discuss tools like Facetune and features like Google Pixel's Best Take, questioning the balance between enhancing images and maintaining authenticity. The conversation highlights the tension between personal satisfaction and misleading representations, especially in the context of social media and dating apps.

Notable Quote:
Joe Getty (23:09): "I feel like it's divorcing reality from perception in a way that's unhealthy."

8. Personal Stories and Banter (29:45 – 37:57)

Jack, Joe, Katie, and Michael share humorous and relatable stories about photo editing mishaps and personal grooming habits. These anecdotes serve to humanize the hosts, showcasing their camaraderie and ability to relate to everyday struggles with self-presentation.

Notable Quote:
Katie (16:08): "I got a Gatorade bottle and I thought, 'I'm gonna pee in the Gatorade bottle while I'm driving.' It was horrible."

9. Final Thoughts on Authenticity and Self-Perception (37:57 – 39:01)

As the episode nears its conclusion, Joe Getty reflects on the importance of authenticity in the digital age. He expresses concern over the artificial enhancements prevalent in virtual interactions and emphasizes the necessity of embracing reality to maintain mental well-being.

Notable Quote:
Joe Getty (33:56): "I'm going to reject anything that departs from what is real more than just a little bit."

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Conclusion

In The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Three, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty explore the multifaceted challenges of decluttering through the lens of Swedish Death Cleaning. The episode intertwines practical advice with personal anecdotes, anchored by psychological insights into materialism and emotional attachment. The hosts adeptly balance serious discourse with humor, offering listeners both depth and entertainment. Additionally, the discussion on photo editing raises important questions about authenticity in the digital age, underscoring the podcast’s commitment to addressing relevant and thought-provoking topics.

Key Takeaways:

• Swedish Death Cleaning offers a structured approach to decluttering by prioritizing meaningful items and reducing the burden on loved ones.
• Emotional attachments to possessions can complicate the decluttering process, often tied to self-identity and past experiences.
• Psychological insights reveal that excessive materialism correlates with negative emotional states, emphasizing the importance of mindful consumption.
• Practical strategies include starting with less sentimental items to build momentum and gradually addressing more emotionally charged possessions.
• Authenticity in self-presentation, especially in digital media, is crucial for maintaining genuine self-perception and mental health.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Jordan Peterson (00:05): "To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful."

• Katie (04:26): "The really tough ones are kid stuff... how do I get rid of this book that I read to my kids every night?"

• Joe Getty (07:44): "They [possessions] become a fortress. Physical barriers to ward off feelings of insecurity and loneliness."

• Joe Getty (08:20): "Materialism is unequivocally associated with more loneliness and less happiness."

• Joe Getty (23:09): "I feel like it's divorcing reality from perception in a way that's unhealthy."

• Joe Getty (33:56): "I'm going to reject anything that departs from what is real more than just a little bit."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of The A&G Replay Thursday Hour Three, providing a clear and engaging overview for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, it's Jay Shetty with On Purpose. My newest episode is out now with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. And now he is Armstrong and Getty.

[Katie]

Hey, we're Armstrong and Getty. We're featuring our podcast One More thing. Find it wherever you find all your podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

So I came across this in the Washington Post about Swedish death cleaning. Kind of, sort of. It's a variation on this theme that we've heard from, like, what's her face? The Marie Kondo lady.

[Michael]

Remember her?

[Joe Getty]

That was all about, you know, hold everything in your hand and if you don't cherish it, get rid of it. Neatness, your home should be neat all the time, blah, blah. Then she had a kid and said, yeah, f this.

[Katie]

Yeah, that's the best part of that story, is she was anti clutter and how. And then she had kids and decided, yeah, you can't. You can't keep up with this. It's impossible.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, all that stuff I said before, forget it. Anyway, so the story opens up, as all stories must, with this lady whose mom passed away. One bedroom apartment, mostly clean and tidy. So we thought it'd be manageable. When she passed, we were wrong. And then they get into the racks and racks of clothes, many unworn in years. Kitchen cabinets stocked, stacked with pots and plastic storage containers, bulk orders of tissues and hot sauce. Each item on its own wasn't unreasonable, but the aggregate proved overwhelming. For several painful weeks, we gave things away, sometimes with labels still on them. During a garage sale, pill carted off thousands of dollars in goods. We piled the driveway high with stuff, then posted to buy nothing groups. So I didn't even know that was a thing.

[Michael]

Yeah, I understand.

[Joe Getty]

Like free stuff.

[Michael]

But yeah, that's what it is. It's social media. It's the buy nothing. It's just basically, this is for free, come pick it up, whatever.

[Katie]

Okay.

[Joe Getty]

Finally, we paid a crew and multiple trucks to pick up the rest. And then they go into this reality show that this chick does the Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning which is one of the worst titles I've ever heard for any piece of entertainment ever. But it was inspired by a best selling book by this 89 year old Swedish woman who talks about not getting caught up in material things. You are not your stuff. Letting go of the stuff, not letting it accumulate and how much, how much that helps you. Because clutter is linked to stress and anxiety and depression. All sorts of stuff.

[Katie]

I believe that I hope I am not my stuff. Looking at my garage, I'm a mess.

[Michael]

Any examples?

[Katie]

I have just so much crap. Just.

[Joe Getty]

Just crap. Yeah, I'm a bit of a hoarder and it's weird.

[Katie]

I don't think I am. You actually. You like hoard stuff?

[Joe Getty]

No, a bit of a hoarder. I have clothes I don't wear. I'm probably almost certainly not going to wear, but I don't get rid of them. I feel this. I feel this pain getting rid of them.

[Katie]

I don't. Yeah, I don't think I have that. I have a. There's probably in that big closet full of clothes, some I do want to keep. I'm not going to go through them all, so I just keep them. All those boxes in the garage. There's some stuff in there I don't want to throw out. So yeah, so I'm going to keep it all.

[Michael]

I'll do cleaning and I'll find myself almost feeling an emotional attachment to maybe the memory that that T shirt has like a band T shirt or something from a show or I'll get frustrated with myself with a certain item and going, kate, you don't need to keep this. It is, yeah, totally irrelevant. But it was attached to something I did.

[Katie]

I. This is probably universal. But the really tough ones are kid stuff. I mean you can't keep every clothing item, every kid ever had or book or toy. But God dang it, throwing some of that stuff out seems like just wrong. How do I get rid of this book that I read, read to my kids every night for years during the greatest moments. But I can't keep them all. I don't need 80 books. 80 books.

[Joe Getty]

We kept a bunch, you know, assuming nieces and nephews and grandkids or whatever would be in the picture eventually and have given some away to other parents because that feels good.

[Katie]

The clothes. I see a T shirt and I think, oh, I remember when Sam would wear this. But I can't keep all the shirts.

[Joe Getty]

Well, there are so many memories that they trigger. I get that but that's defensible to me. Some shirt that I'm just not. Not gonna wear. Probably. It's just weird. I think I've always thought it's probably because, you know, and I didn't grow up poor, but we were far from rich and you know, I was wearing hand me downs and stuff and the idea of a nice new shirt was like really, really cool. And so it's hard for me to. I don't know.

[Katie]

Anyway, there's a certain pain in knowing you paid 50 bucks for something and now it's worthless. That is also something going on in your brain.

[Joe Getty]

You know, it's funny, I don't really. That doesn't bother me as much.

[Katie]

I don't think I bought this shirt and I'm going to give it away. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

[Joe Getty]

I realize then they go into each product we buy on average accounts for roughly 6.3 times its weight in carbon emissions.

[Katie]

Whatever.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. I really don't give a crap.

[Michael]

They had to go there.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So on to Swedish death cleaning or Durstin. I don't even know what that letter is, much less how to say it. It isn't about clearing out closets. It's about rethinking your relationships with things rather than making do with less. It's about getting more from the things that make you happy.

[Katie]

I had a buddy who is so good at this with clothes. Like when we were in college, I had a closet full of clothes that I was never going to wear again that had been toting around. And he was good at like, these are the two pairs of pants I'm going to wear this summer. These are the three cool shirts I like. Is it. He got rid of everything else and he was, wow, I wish I could do that.

[Joe Getty]

So death cleaning happens to agree with scientists understanding of our relationship with things and why we're loath to part with them. Decades of research have shown that we subconsciously see our possessions as physical extensions of ourselves. Losing them feels like an amputation because in our minds it is. We attach, we're attached to our belongings because we identify them, says researcher in Dublin. This can veer into pathology such as hoarding belongings become so fused with a sense of self that people lose the ability to differentiate between, say, the value of a saved wedding ring, of saving a wedding ring or a candy wrapper. Wow. Now that's pathological. Instead of our possessions offering, quote, a vital receptacle for our memories and identities, researchers say they become a fortress. Physical barriers to Ward off feelings of insecurity and loneliness. Wow.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

This is crazy.

[Katie]

I. I don't doubt some of this. I think my problem is mostly laziness. It's. Well, or not laziness. Some laziness.

[Joe Getty]

You're crazy busy.

[Katie]

Yeah, I'm too busy to go through a bunch of boxes in my garage to see what I want to throw out or not. That's what's slowing me down.

[Michael]

Have you ever watched the show Hoarders?

[Katie]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a clear line between what we're talking about and them.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Michael]

But the. The way that they. Their emotions spike so much when they do try to get rid of things, it's.

[Katie]

It.

[Michael]

I mean, that's. That's absolutely mental.

[Katie]

My youngest kid has a little bit of that. He's definitely got more of that than is good. He just. Oh. His attachment to some things is. Is a little scary.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. Well, I'm glad you're all enjoying this as I psychoanalyze myself, because this is crazy. His research, this the guy we cited earlier, shows that materialism, a tendency to seek out possessions for status or approval, is unequivocally associated with more loneliness and less happiness. But not all possessions are equal. Things acquired for their beauty, utility, or their association with positive experiences and social relationships don't show the same correlation.

[Katie]

That's interesting.

[Joe Getty]

My grandmother's garden knife, for example. For example, every time I hold it, the smooth hickory handle polish over a half century resurrects blissful childhood hours spent in her Florida garden, et cetera, et cetera. It's a good thing to have a few reminders symbolic of meaning, etc. Etc. You know, I'm willing to bet many things in your home, as in mine, are neither useful, beautiful, nor sentimental. So, moving on, how does death cleaning work? Things that take up space in our minds as well as our attics and garages, blah, blah, blah. By clarifying what's important and what's not, you make room. Your loved ones can receive what you might like before you go relieving them of the burden of cleaning up once you're gone. This might seem hard. Who wants to give their stuff away right now? Description of what it is like to amass a bunch of stuff and not really appreciate it. Okay, so start with the easy stuff. Begin with large or duplicate items first, then finish with the small and sentimental. Clothes are an excellent place to start since many of them have little practical or sentimental use. Photographs, personal papers, and letters are the hardest to clear out.

[Katie]

I've got like my sock drawer has got. I don't know how many pairs of socks are in there. 30 pairs of socks. I wear the same 10 pair on top. The bottom 20 pair I never wear and I'm never going to wear because of the style or color or the worn out or whatever. Why don't I throw those out?

[Joe Getty]

I have enough socks. Including the other day I was asking Jack about what length socks somebody was wearing and you reacted as if I was some sort of sock connoisseur to have different lengths.

[Katie]

You're a sock sommelier?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, in a way, yeah. So I've got the no shows, I've got the ankle, I've got the mid calf, et cetera. I have enough socks that if our washing machine broke down, never mind that if it were outlawed, I would not have to wear a dirty pair of socks for three and a half months.

[Katie]

That's a lot of socks.

[Joe Getty]

Maybe more.

[Katie]

That'd be 100 pair of socks.

[Joe Getty]

Something like that.

[Katie]

Wow, that's a lot of socks. I thought I had more than I need.

[Joe Getty]

I have multiple drawers with socks. I got white socks. I got no shows like to play golf in to minimize my weird golf tan. What your son charmingly refers to as morgue feet.

[Katie]

It's a good term.

[Joe Getty]

Then I have a drawer full of black and like black and dark blue athletic socks. Then I've got my dress socks. Then I've got my woolly winter socks for when we had our mountain place being up in the snow a lot. We aren't anymore. Yeah, I have enough socks to wear for many months.

[Michael]

Gosh, getting those to match up when doing the laundry must just be infuriating. It's all socks.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Except as Jack indicates, in the space of two weeks, I wear two weeks worth of socks, so it's not that many. And again, it's inexplicable to have as many socks as I have. Since we have a functioning washer and dryer.

[Katie]

Are you emotionally attached to them?

[Joe Getty]

No. No. It's like, good, because that would be weird. That would be very weird. No, they're socks. I'm not crazy. But there is a weird. It's a difficult impulse to explain. It's like I might need this or I might wish I had this. And I don't know where it comes from. Again, I did not grow up in North Korea. I did not fight my brother to the death for a grain of rice.

[Katie]

Or one remaining sock.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I honestly don't understand it.

[Unknown]

Hey, when you Match up your socks. Do you do what I do, and if the colors are close enough, you know, if they're dark blue or black, you just put them together.

[Katie]

No, I'm not, because I'm not a psychopath.

[Joe Getty]

That's fair.

[Unknown]

No, I mean, usually I do the exact same color, but if they're, you know, they've been. One's been washed more than the other, one looks a little lighter than one.

[Katie]

Get washed more than the other.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, you're talking nonsense. What you're doing is putting mismatched socks together and calling them a match. They're not.

[Katie]

All right?

[Joe Getty]

It's like, I won't call a man a woman. I will not call a navy blue sock a black sock, because I'm not a liar.

[Katie]

How many bodies dissolving and how many barrels do you have in your garage? Because that's the work of a psychopath. Putting mismatched socks together, Boy.

[Jordan Peterson]

Hey, but.

[Katie]

So the. Whatever the weird name is of this thing you're talking about, the death cleaning or whatever, is it basically the idea that you got to be ruthless and just get rid of stuff you don't need?

[Joe Getty]

Hmm? It's not ruthless, exactly. They talk about, God, I would love to do that.

[Katie]

It's so relaxing for me to even think about doing that. Like getting rid of all the stuff in my closet I never wear, everything in the drawers I don't use anymore, everything in the closets that we never use. Oh, it just. Oh, it fills me with relaxation, happy chemicals. Yet I'm not.

[Joe Getty]

I would agree. I would agree. But I do do it, and it's an excuse to go buy new stuff. And they suggest it's not being ruthless, it's being thoughtful. Before bringing something into my home, I now think about its fate. This person writes, how will I feel living with it? Will someone else ever want it? Is it worth it? By recognizing the stories I tell about my stuff, it has made it easier to let go of old things or avoiding buying new ones without losing a bit of myself. I so need a shrink. Or wait a minute. No. You go to a shrink, all they do is give you drugs. So I so need drugs.

[Jack Armstrong]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Joe Getty]

It's the Armstrong and Getty show, featuring our podcast. One more thing. Download it, subscribe to it, wherever you like to get podcasts.

[Katie]

So is a big hippie festival in middle of nowhere, Nevada.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know that it's a hippie festival. It's a festival of living outside the rigors and Bounds of everyday society. A chance to cut loose a little bit and relax in the desert with like minded fellows and gals.

[Katie]

None of us have been. So you haven't been Katie.

[Michael]

I have not. I wanted to go, but I've never made it.

[Katie]

Michael, if I remember correctly, you'd never been to San Diego until fairly recently. So I don't think you've been Running Man's Got.

[Joe Getty]

Out of the question.

[Unknown]

I've been to the beach, but that's about it. The most band I've seen.

[Joe Getty]

I don't even like most camping because as a man who enjoys a cocktail before bed and buy a cocktail, well, I always have to get up and pee in the middle of the night and I'm afraid of being eaten by a bear.

[Katie]

Yeah, I didn't know where you're going with that. I was going to say you enjoy cocktails. You don't like camping? Camping is always super heavy on the drinking. You start like really early and go all that. That's like the whole camping thing. Based on most of my camping, I.

[Joe Getty]

Needed to do embrace the jug, but the pea jug. But most of my camping experience was with my wife and kids and that just didn't seem to be a good idea.

[Katie]

Peeing in a jug.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. But I remain uneaten by bears, so I guess it worked out all right.

[Michael]

Husband peed in a jug. Left it in my car. Found it this weekend. That was a lot of fun.

[Joe Getty]

Tmi. Really? Tmi.

[Katie]

Well, this is a perfect place to tell this story. I got two good stories around this. So one, I'm driving from Charlotte, North Carolina to Nashville to catch a concert. And I don't. And I'm running kind of late and I need to pee and there's. And I don't want to pull over and so I have a Gatorade bottle. And I thought, you know what? I'm gonna pee in the Gatorade bottle while I'm driving. And what I learned is the volume of urine that comes out of you is a lot more than you think it is because the Gatorade bottle filled up like that and then it was just pee going everywhere. It was horrible.

[Joe Getty]

Charming story. It's a shame it's over.

[Katie]

So then the other story is this. My poor son with his anxiety problems. He went through a boy a year or two period where he had to pee like every 30 seconds.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, poor lad.

[Katie]

It was horrible.

[Joe Getty]

I'm so glad that's not the case anymore because I remember how difficult that was. It was horrible.

[Katie]

We had pads all around the house. He was, he was a pretty little kid, had pads all over the house, could just from nervousness. He'd just essentially have to pee. And so it's just. Anyway, so he would, I'd carry a bottle, water bottles, just like you drink out of in the car. And he'd pee in the water bottle all the time because I can't pull over every time he needs a pee. Literally like every minute sometimes. So he can't go anywhere. So I had a, you know, I'm, I, I'm driving to work one morning and I grab my water bottle and take a swig and it's one of those bottles.

[Joe Getty]

No, I thought the first story was terrible.

[Katie]

And I took a big old gulp of old salty.

[Michael]

Oh, good morning.

[Katie]

Yeah, that was rough. When as soon as it took me like a half a second to realize, you know, you get hit with this isn't water, then, oh, I know what it is. And then just the revulsion at what it was.

[Joe Getty]

No, we're all feeling it right now.

[Katie]

God, it took me a long time to stop spitting and rinsing out my mouth after that.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and.

[Jay Shetty]

Our hot [e-mail] My latest episode is with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to let go of? What do I have to transform? That can be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from one of the.

[Joe Getty]

Most articulate men of our time, clinical.

[Katie]

Psychologist turned culture warrior, Dr. Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

The men who prefer short term mating opportunities are psychopathic, narcissistic, Machiavellian and sadistic. So one of the unintended consequences of the sexual revolution is that the freed up women have been delivered to the psychopathic men. Most people who have post traumatic stress disorder don't have it because they were hurt. They have it because they encountered someone who wanted to hurt them.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

This is the Armstrong and Getty show featuring our podcast One More Thing. Get it wherever you like to get podcasts.

[Katie]

By the way, Katie, I really like your T shirt. Yeah, no, yeah, no.

[Unknown]

No.

[Katie]

But we, so we got to talking on the radio show about the, the editing of photos just in general because so many people do it and it's so effortless. Now, I don't have the Google phone, but I was just reading. So the Wall Street Journal had an article. When is it okay to alter the family photo? Who doesn't alter big family photos? And, and if you didn't before the. I mean, like back in the old days when you'd go get a professional photo done and everything like that, they were altering them for you. They were all brightening them up or less them or whatever.

[Michael]

And every, Every group photo I take, I make sure everybody looks top notch because I don't want to hear it afterwards.

[Katie]

Oh, yeah, post that one.

[Michael]

I look bad in that one. Oh, what? No, I went through. I made my best effort to make all of you look good, so. Doing what, for instance, sometimes someone's eyes will be closed. You can open them, somebody's not smiling when they usually would. You can give them a smile.

[Katie]

What, what, what app or phone are you using to do that?

[Michael]

Facetune.

[Katie]

Facetune, yeah. So the Google Pixel thing, you've probably seen the ads. It looks fantastic. But they've got a thing called Best Take, where you do a blast of photos and then you. You can pick each individual face. This is the best one from this one. This is the best one in, you know, in a group photo. That's. Which sounds like was more or less what they did there at Kensington palace with the royal family. I'm surprised they don't have more sophisticated software than they did. Well, according to their statement, Prince Will. I don't even hardly know these people's names.

[Joe Getty]

Prince.

[Katie]

Prince Will took the picture last week.

[Joe Getty]

And Kate edited it.

[Katie]

Then she edited it, I guess, like a lot of wives probably do if their husband takes a bad photo. I don't know.

[Michael]

This whole thing is because there was a big conspiracy theory that she was dead after this abdominal surgery she had because she hadn't been seen in the public. And now they're trying to find any reason they can to keep that conspiracy alive. I. E. They edited this photo and she's not really around or something. That's what I've been reading.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Okay, that's, that's, that doesn't explain all of the coverage, but certainly some of it. Now, I'm willing to concede that I may be an outlier in this stuff. I. You know, to Katie's point, I don't hang out with people who'd give a single crap. I mean, unless they're like, I take a picture and in the background they're with their lover and their wife doesn't know about it, they might be worried about that. But that out they're lower certainly. Yeah, they'd ask me to, but I've just, I'm now if we're talking about bringing out a little contrast or something like that, a filter, because it was a little bright there or something. I mean, that's just, that's how you make decent looking photographs. But like slimming people and, you know, give them a better smile or whiten their teeth and stuff like that. I just, I. It makes me uncomfortable. I feel like it's divorcing reality from perception in a way that's unhealthy.

[Katie]

Do you ever. Do you ever slim people, Katie?

[Michael]

No, no, that's not, that's not cool. But I see your point, Joe, is you're drawing the line basically at contrast and lighting.

[Katie]

Well, Joe's drawing very bright lines between good people and bad people. So we got to figure out which end of the line we're all on.

[Joe Getty]

This must be what it's like to be in a hearing in Congress.

[Katie]

So we need to find out which side of Joe's good people, bad people line we're on. So you're okay with contrast and brightness, a format.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, great.

[Katie]

But yes, are, are you okay with the. You got a bunch of photos and you put the smile on everybody's best smile in the photo. Are you okay with that or not?

[Joe Getty]

It seems ridiculous to me. Although if each of those individual images existed, just not at the same time, I will allow it.

[Katie]

Like a fly lands in somebody's face and you make a weird face trying to get the fly off and you're just going to leave it like that for that guy?

[Joe Getty]

Or here's a question. What have you gained and what have you lost by not including that image?

[Katie]

I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

You are serving the idea of always looking unrealistically beautiful or great as opposed to capturing a moment where something really funny happened.

[Katie]

Speaking for myself, it's hard for me to wrap my head around this because I don't have the motivation because I don't have any social media that I post pictures on. So nobody ever sees them but me and other people in my family. Sometimes me and the kids go through my phone. But so I'm not posting these for any stuff. So maybe I would be more motivated to if I posted these where anybody would see them. But like, I know someone who clearly uses the thinning thing whenever they post pictures because I see them on a regular basis and I know that that's not what they look like. And that one I.

[Joe Getty]

That I wonder about, I just think that's fundamentally unhealthy. To thine own self be true is like my guiding principle for everything in life. Because. And it's not. I'm not coming off as high handed. I think I may be better than some people at least at recognizing my weaknesses and realizing you are really tempted to do that. That's one of the things you really need to be careful about. And one of them is, you know, self delusion or, you know, how would I put this? And I'm more than willing to concede that I may be an outlier and a little bit weird about this. And you live your own life. I honestly don't care. I don't care enough about the way you live your life to judge you unless you're hurting other people. So don't take anything I say as some sort of like, Jack tried to frame it as your best person. Exactly.

[Katie]

Yeah. It's probably.

[Joe Getty]

You know what? Honestly, that's probably a better way to frame this discussion. It's more entertaining.

[Michael]

This is called Joe's the Jerk.

[Joe Getty]

I just. What are you doing? Why are you doing that? So people think you're better looking than you are. Why?

[Unknown]

For dating apps.

[Katie]

For if you're single and you're dating. If I was doing that, and I've never done online dating and I'm never going to, but if I was, God, it'd be. I don't think I could stop myself from just slightly slimming your face. I mean, why not?

[Joe Getty]

Completely different question. I would post pictures of guys who weren't even me.

[Katie]

That is a completely different question, though. Although at a point, though, you're really misleading people. I mean, because I heard people talk about showing up to meet somebody and it's like, you're the same person from that photo. Come on. Yeah, I wouldn't want that. That'd be hurtful. I wouldn't want. I wouldn't want that myself. I don't want to meet somebody that I lured them in by making myself look different. They're like, whoa, dude, how much time did you spend editing that photo? But, man, you can. I messed around with Facetune a while just to see what it was like. Then I don't even have it anymore because I'm. I'm not going to spend that much time. But, man, just. It takes so little effort to like, slim your face just so you think, wow, I look so much better with just that much effort. All right, here's.

[Joe Getty]

Here's the standard. And Katie Cannot comment on this because she's super purdy. The, like, the best non retouched photo of you because we all have them. Wow. I look good in that pic. You know, that's as high as you can go. That's as handsome or pretty or whatever you can go.

[Katie]

If all you're doing is bringing the photo up to your best real photo.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Katie]

That's not bad. As a standard, if you are exceeding.

[Joe Getty]

The possibilities of a real photo of yourself, then you're doing things in your mind that are not healthy.

[Katie]

Yeah. If you change it to something, you've never actually looked that good. Now, that is a different category.

[Joe Getty]

Unless, again, you're trying to get laid, then anything goes, baby.

[Katie]

Here's a funny one. I was disappointed that my Costco card expired because I had a great picture on my Costco card. It was like one of my better pictures of me ever, for some reason.

[Joe Getty]

I had a driver's license once. I looked like an action star.

[Jordan Peterson]

Yes.

[Michael]

My first driver's license was money.

[Joe Getty]

It all came together. I had a really good beard at that point. I looked like a guy out of the movies who would, you know. He turned out to be, you know, some sort of master criminal. Oh, so good.

[Katie]

You know how when you end up. You know how if you end up in the news, the media grabs, like your driver's license photo, and that becomes the photo going everywhere. I've thought about that before. If something happened, and now the current driver's license photo I have is just awful. I wish I could get it changed. That would be the picture of what I look like for any story.

[Michael]

You want. You want it to be your Costco card photo?

[Katie]

Yes, yes, if you have to. If something happens where I end up with the news, good or bad, use my Costco card photo.

[Unknown]

You let your Costco card expire?

[Katie]

Yeah, somehow.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so why don't we go through a checklist of different. Go ahead, Michael. Did you have more criticism?

[Unknown]

No, I was just gonna say, you know, do you let your kids starve, too?

[Michael]

That was judging.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that's what I was looking for. That's what I was hoping for, Michael. All right, so throw out scenarios and I'll. I'll rule whether they're okay or not. For instance, family picture. Your kid has acne problems and is super sensitive about it.

[Katie]

They're super sensitive about it. That's different. The family picture, like the one that's going to go on the wall in the hallway.

[Joe Getty]

Maybe a Christmas card.

[Michael]

See, I'd be okay with it because that ACNE isn't forever. You're going to grow up. And if they want that picture up the way you know, then it is.

[Joe Getty]

Strictly speaking, a disease. Yeah. I realize that makes it sound more serious than it. But it can be very serious for people and the way they feel about themselves.

[Katie]

Certainly for my own personal use, the pictures, my phone. I've never altered my kids to make them look better. Ever. Not once.

[Joe Getty]

No, no. Yeah.

[Katie]

I want to know what they look like.

[Joe Getty]

Right? Yeah.

[Katie]

Me, on the other hand, what are.

[Joe Getty]

You gonna do with me ever using slimming software other than, like, for dating functions?

[Katie]

I never have for real. I don't think I ever would, except for dating situations. But so, you know, all of this is. There's lots of gray areas. You're. I guess men do this too, but women do it more. I think you're wearing some sort of slimming garment. How's that different? If you're wearing a slimming garment under your dress at the wedding, isn't that. How's that different than if you use the Photoshop to slim yourself a little bit? Why?

[Joe Getty]

Well, because it's. It's possible in the real world.

[Katie]

So that's your standard again, is if you could get yourself to look like that in the real world.

[Joe Getty]

You know, it's funny, between the radio show and recording this, I went and got some more ice water from the kitchen and just everybody's getting ready and. All right, let's go do the podcast. I've been thinking hard about all the things we've talked about today, and I've got to form it all into a unified philosophy. And it's going to be something like, I'm a realistarian or something like that. Because the only thing that's going to keep me from becoming like an angry nihilist, because I think the artificial world, the virtual world, is incredibly unhealthy and is drawing humanity and individual people into just terrible psychological places and addictions and self hatred and suicide and depression and anxiety. I think it is so effing unhealthy. We have not scratched the surface of it. But the only way I can, like, live in that world is if I have an alternative that I'm focused on. And it's going to be something about anything that departs from what is real more than just a little bit. I'm just going to reject.

[Katie]

Yeah, I wonder if that'll happen for anybody on the younger end, though, like Katie. You're younger, so wouldn't smartphones come out? You're a kid, probably when no I.

[Michael]

Was in high school. High school, graduating.

[Katie]

If you're a young person, especially women, but if you've never lived in a world where you couldn't easily manipulate your photos and make yourself better, look better, how would you ever not?

[Joe Getty]

To answer your question, which I think is a really interesting one, whether young people will go along with what I'm talking about or ever get a chance to, the answer is clearly yes, 100% yes. The question is how many? I read something interesting the other day. 20 somethings who've jettisoned TikTok and other social media and how happy they are now. That's not like 70 million in the United States, but it's thousands. And just like, you know, whether you want to cite Christianity or healthy eating or regular exercise or whatever, just because most people aren't is not a good reason to stop advocating for what's good and what's healthy. And if I'm on the losing side again, that's fine. I can live with that.

[Katie]

I was just singing for young people altering their photos. One, they will have always had that in their lives. And two, you kind of always are on a dating app when you're. It seems to me, from observing social media for young people, your life is a dating app.

[Joe Getty]

It's an interesting point. Yeah.

[Katie]

So of course you're going to be adjusting your phone. I mean, how you couldn't have stopped me and like, if I hit. Whereas in high school now. From altering my photos to make myself look better. Are you kidding? Not a chance. You couldn't stop me with a gun from altering my photos to make myself look better.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point.

[Katie]

Oh, wow.

[Unknown]

What if you had an uncle that had. Well, he was a pirate and he had a peg leg.

[Katie]

Would you airbrush out his peg?

[Unknown]

No. Or put a different type of leg.

[Michael]

On there like a parrot on his shoulder?

[Katie]

Well, of course it's an odd scenario.

[Joe Getty]

Michael, what's your pirate uncle's name? It's hard for me to go forward without a name, Art.

[Jay Shetty]

Oh, God.

[Katie]

Oh, boy.

[Unknown]

I'm really sorry about that.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Katie]

I was right. I need to airbrush this out of the podcast.

[Unknown]

I'm really sorry about that.

[Joe Getty]

Shiver me timbers.

[Katie]

You gave me scurvy without one.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Joe Getty]

All right.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and.

[Jay Shetty]

Our hot [e-mail] My latest episode is with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up what do I have to let go of? What do I have to transform? That can be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from one of the most.

[Joe Getty]

Articulate men of our time, clinical psychologist.

[Katie]

Turned culture warrior, Dr. Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

The men who prefer short term mating opportunities are psychopathic, narcissistic, akiabalian and sadistic. So one of the unintended consequences of the sexual revolution is that the freed up women have been delivered to the psyche. Psychopathic men. Most people who have post traumatic stress disorder don't have it because they were hurt. They have it because they encountered someone who wanted to hurt them.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katie]

Hey, it's the Armstrong and Getty show featuring our podcast One more thing. We do a new one every day. Find it wherever you find your podcast. Can I say this?

[Joe Getty]

Well, of course I can say this. A friend who I work with, his wife is an obstetrician. The stories she has heard amaze. And the tattoos she has seen.

[Katie]

Oh, what?

[Joe Getty]

Including one. One woman. I think I can tell this story.

[Unknown]

I'm sure you can.

[Joe Getty]

Should I though? Oh, man, I do not want to get him in trouble.

[Katie]

So we're talking about tattoos on the.

[Michael]

Yoohoo, oh my God.

[Joe Getty]

Or in the you who will region.

[Katie]

Right.

[Michael]

The sympathy pain I'm feeling right now.

[Katie]

Is, well, pain aside, even without the pain, just as a lifestyle choice.

[Joe Getty]

Right. And sometimes it's just in the suburbs, but. And not in the city center. But can I say this? You know what? I can't say it. I'm going to make this up completely. This is Joe Getty lying and creating fiction that is in no way based on any truth ever spoken by anybody. One gal who is well on in years had a boxing glove to either side and the caption, hit it like a champion.

[Katie]

Oh, no, she, oh my God.

[Joe Getty]

It's like a champ. Oh.

[Katie]

So then you have to think as a dude or a woman, I guess, if she's a lesbian. But your first, you know, you become intimate after months of dating and courting and then of course, marriage, you decide.

[Joe Getty]

You love each other very much.

[Katie]

You decide to become intimate. And this is the first time you become aware of your, the love of your life having a tattoo that says hit it like an champ.

[Joe Getty]

Unless that tattoo is like a week old. Yeah, I'm gonna have questions.

[Michael]

This just reeks of class, you know?

[Katie]

Yeah. What Do I do? Am I. How disturbed am I at that point? Am I thinking, maybe not, or you're not who I thought you were, or do you bring.

[Joe Getty]

And yes, Michael, do you bring a.

[Unknown]

Boxing belt to bed?

[Katie]

Let's get ready. Yeah, you do. That whole round one, was.

[Joe Getty]

Was that a statement of kind of general principle, or was that, like, a specific message to a lover of her past? I would have questions. So, baby, I can't help but notice you've.

[Katie]

I'm going.

[Joe Getty]

Got a whole set of tattoos.

[Katie]

That's my goal, regardless of your signage anyway.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Michael]

You didn't.

[Joe Getty]

I.

[Michael]

Don't tell me to do that.

[Joe Getty]

Right, right, exactly. It's extraneous motivation.

[Michael]

This is reminding me.

[Joe Getty]

That's my general practice. Right.

[Michael]

This is reminding me of one of the funniest things. So my mother got a Tattoo for her 50th birthday, and it is a dolphin that is jumping over a shamrock. And her big line was like, yeah, in 15 years, it'll be an eel stuck in a pine tree.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. The comedy stylings of Katie's mom.

[Michael]

Oh, she's fantastic.

[Katie]

So does this.

[Joe Getty]

Where were we?

[Katie]

So does this made up? Dr.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Katie]

Find a way to. I just need to check my messages real quick, and then you kind of lean your phone this way and quick.

[Jack Armstrong]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, it's Jay Shetty with On Purpose. My newest episode is out now with Jordan Peterson.

[Jordan Peterson]

To be open to learning does mean, at least to some degree, always asking, what am I doing wrong? What do I have to give up? What do I have to transform? That could be very painful. There isn't anything better that you can do with failure, no matter how unjust, than to learn from.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.