The A&G Replay Tuesday Hour Four

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand
Episode: The A&G Replay Tuesday Hour Four
Release Date: November 26, 2024
Host: Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction and Overview

In this episode of The A&G Replay Tuesday Hour Four, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty delve deep into pressing societal issues, blending sharp political commentary with personal anecdotes. The conversation traverses topics from illegal immigration's impact on agriculture to the contentious debate surrounding assisted suicide, all while maintaining their signature blend of humor and candidness.

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2. Illegal Immigration and Agricultural Dependency

Timestamp: 02:01 – 12:46

Jack Armstrong opens the discussion by highlighting the dependency of California's Central Valley on undocumented workers. With over 300,000 undocumented workers contributing to $17 billion in crop production and providing 25% of the nation's food supply, the region faces a precarious situation if these workers were suddenly removed.

Jack Armstrong emphasizes the complexity of the issue:

"60% of America wants [undocumented workers] all booted out of the country... does that mean it's a good idea? You’ve got to have a system of some sort for having workers. And that's the job of Congress to come up with and implement."

Joe Getty underscores the logistical challenges:

"People go for their best alternative. They will do their best option. For Americans, working in a field in the heat and the dust bent over is not nearly their best option. For some Guatemalan it is."

The hosts critique the current system where American workers are labeled unwilling to perform hard agricultural labor, leading to increased reliance on undocumented immigrants. They argue that this scenario not only undermines American labor but also creates a dependency that is unsustainable and fraught with policy complications, especially with California's stance as a sanctuary state.

Notable Points:

• Economic Impact: Central Valley's reliance on undocumented labor is crucial for maintaining crop yields and food supply chains.
• Policy Failures: The lack of a robust, legal framework for agricultural workers leaves the system vulnerable.
• Societal Implications: Entrenched policies create a cycle where the removal of undocumented workers would lead to catastrophic effects on agriculture and the economy.

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3. Assisted Suicide: Lessons from Canada

Timestamp: 17:48 – 30:01

The conversation shifts to the controversial topic of assisted suicide, drawing parallels with Canada's implementation of Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD). Joe Getty references an opinion piece from the Wall Street Journal by Nicholas Tomeno, which critiques the real-world outcomes of policies initially sold as compassionate.

Joe Getty highlights the slippery slope concerns:

"Once you open this door, there will be pressure from insurance companies, relatives who might want to inherit your money, or those paying the bills deciding your fate."

Jack Armstrong, sharing a personal perspective, relates the policy to end-of-life decisions:

"If I'm headed down the road of misery... having family members who might want you to die because they're going to get your inheritance... That's a nightmare scenario."

Key Insights:

• Canadian Experience: MAiD has become the fifth leading cause of death in Canada, with over 13,000 deaths in 2022 resulting from assisted suicide.
• Policy Shortcomings: Initial safeguards in Canada’s MAiD legislation were insufficient, leading to broader eligibility and higher approval rates than anticipated.
• Ethical Dilemmas: Cases like Roger Foley's illustrate the potential for abuse and the moral complexities surrounding assisted suicide.
• Slippery Slope Argument: The hosts argue that once assisted suicide is legalized, it becomes challenging to regulate and prevent misuse, echoing Charles Krauthammer's concerns about societal implications.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Getty: "In a democracy, you need a little support from a lot of people. How do you do that? By handing out money, government benefits..."
• Jack Armstrong: "I don't understand the government's role in telling them they can't [end their lives]."

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4. The Decline of Political Discourse in Personal Relationships

Timestamp: 33:03 – 36:34

Armstrong and Getty explore how political discourse has infiltrated personal relationships, particularly romantic ones. Armstrong recounts a conversation with a college-age babysitter who highlighted the generational shift in discussing politics.

Jack Armstrong reflects on his experiences:

"None of my college friends, I don't have the slightest idea what their politics were. We never discussed it."

Joe Getty comments on the polarization:

"Recent polling shows Married men are 59 to 39 Republican... The Democratic Party has become the party of unmarried women."

Key Points:

• Generational Gap: Younger generations prioritize political alignment in dating, contrasting with older generations where politics were seldom discussed.
• Political Polarization: The increasing divide between political affiliations strains personal relationships and social interactions.
• Cultural Shift: The omnipresence of politics in daily life has marginalized non-political discourse, leading to potential isolation and reduced social cohesion.

Notable Statistics:

• Marital Politics:
  • Married Men: 59% Republican, 39% Democrat
  • Married Women: 56% Republican, 42% Democrat
  • Unmarried Men: 52% Republican, 45% Democrat
  • Unmarried Women: 68% Democrat, 31% Republican

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5. Concluding Reflections and Future Outlook

Timestamp: 36:34 – End

In their closing remarks, Armstrong and Getty ponder the future trajectory of societal structures and governance. They reflect on historical patterns that lead to societal decay and the role of current policies in potentially hastening such outcomes.

Joe Getty shares a somber reflection:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government... it always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

Jack Armstrong connects historical insights to present-day concerns:

"We've been talking about this very topic for decades now... You're not going to get a strong, functioning, successful society if you've decided certain jobs are off limits to your citizens."

Final Thoughts:

• Historical Cycles: The hosts draw parallels between current societal issues and historical events like the French Revolution and the fall of empires.
• Systemic Failures: They argue that without comprehensive policy reforms, particularly regarding immigration and labor, the U.S. risks economic instability and social fragmentation.
• Call to Action: Armstrong and Getty advocate for thoughtful, structured solutions over partisan rhetoric to address the country's most pressing challenges.

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Notable Quotes of the Day

At the end of the episode, Joe Getty shares a thought-provoking quote from Lord Woodhouselee (Alexander Fraser Tyler):

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. Then it progresses through stages: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to apathy, from apathy to dependence, and back into bondage.

Jack Armstrong adds poignantly:

"So where are we right now? Somewhere between apathy and dependence."

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Final Remarks

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty conclude the episode by reinforcing the importance of their discussions on ArmstrongandGetty.com, encouraging listeners to engage with their content and stay informed through their podcast series. Their candid dialogue offers listeners a comprehensive analysis of complex societal issues, urging thoughtful consideration and proactive engagement.

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Listen to the full episode on Armstrong and Getty On Demand and stay updated with insightful discussions that matter.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

Four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device credit service ported 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Michael]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. And now he's Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Welcome to a replay of the Armstrong and Getty Show. We're off. All week long we, we give a lot of thanks. We eat a lot, we watch a lot of football. We'll come back refreshed. But I hope you enjoyed this stuff. It's going to be really good.

[Joe Getty]

Some delicious leftovers if you will. The flavors have made friends overnight in the fridge. Plus drop by Armstrong and getty.com download podcasts or grab an Ang T shirt.

[Unknown]

California's Central Valley is without question one of the most vital agricultural regions In Americ, producing $17 billion worth of crops, 25% of the nation's food supply. And to help grow and harvest those crops, many farmers here rely on undocumented workers. The Department of Agriculture estimates that about half of the hired crop workers do not have legal status. That is estimated to be more than 330,000 workers in the Central Valley alone.

[Jack Armstrong]

300,000 workers in the Central Valley alone. That if you followed what recent polling says, 60% of America wants would all be booted out of the country. And that would be, obviously, if you did that all at once, would be quite the wrecking of the whole agricultural system. Doesn't mean it's not a good idea though, because you got to have a system of some sort for having workers. And that's the job of Congress to come up with and be implemented and follow through. I don't know if they're going to or not, but Joe and I have been talking about illegal immigration and farmworkers for, geez, 25 years or whatever, being on the air in this very part of the California and the country that they're talking about on ABC this week and we used to talk about it all the time when we were only on in the Sacramento area and people would always talk, do you want tomatoes to be $5? Well, then you know who's going to pick the lettuce. Yeah, exactly. It was always the conversation and our.

[Joe Getty]

Answer was always somebody or nobody or a machine.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, let's hear from a couple of farmers in the Central Valley and their theories on why you need to have illegals picking. Here's more from ABC this week.

[Unknown]

We can't afford a labor shortage. Back during Obama we had a labor shortage and there were times where we.

Actually, I think people will look and say, but wait a minute, there are Americans who are unemployed. Why can't you just hire them?

They don't want to come out here and work in this, in this extreme conditions, 100 plus degree temperatures, dust, hard work.

What if you paid them more?

It doesn't matter. You know, we, we pay some of the highest wages for farm workers in the nation right here in California and they won't come out.

[Jack Armstrong]

And just so before we have that conversation, here's a different farmer, same question, same topic there. I don't care what you pay them. I don't care if you pay them $26 an hour. It ain't gonna happen. They're not gonna get up at 4, 5 in the morning, drive to the field and pick fruit. So, and the question was, why don't you just hire Americans? They won't do it. I don't care what you pay them. They're not gonna get up that time of day and come out and do that job. So I don't understand why that isn't a. Hold on pause, let's have a conversation about that sort of revelation on ABC this week. They just move on to. And there you see, Americans won't do this work. So it makes sense to have illegal brown people do it. What, what, how do you craft a society like that? How about why would people who are unemployed or underemployed take the option of not doing a job even if it paid really well?

[Joe Getty]

Right, right.

[Jack Armstrong]

How could they do that? How does that work? How does that, how are they paying the rent? How are they eating?

[Joe Getty]

Can you imagine if you went to family counseling and, and you said, my children refuse to do their chores. And the counselor said, well, let's talk about how you can hire someone to do your children's chores.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right?

[Joe Getty]

No, that's not the right question. Right, yeah. Oh, that's funny.

[Jack Armstrong]

We've been talking about this very topic for decades now. How have we just accepted that people born in this country shouldn't have to do work that's not, I don't know, glamorous or kind of hard or it's outside or whatever the reason is, people don't want to do it. I did that kind of work when I was in high school. Lots of us did. You can't do it anymore.

[Joe Getty]

Many, many Americans did.

[Jack Armstrong]

But is everybody okay with that? Creating a welfare state so lavish that people can choose not to do jobs that they don't find like something they want to do, even. Even if it pays $29 an hour.

[Joe Getty]

And one more amusing irony, this has amused me for many, many years, is the more quote unquote progressive you are, the more in favor of white people won't do this work. Let's bring in some of those brown people. I mean, that's the further left you are, the more you're a hardcore. Open up the borders and let them in person, which I think is hilarious.

[Jack Armstrong]

There's also the unspoken unstated realization that if millions of people come here and do those jobs, they're getting by. They must be able to live somewhere and have a car and eat and, you know, do all the things you want to do with a job.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

By definition, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

It's just, it's. It boils down to a couple of very, very simple principles. Number one is the purpose of getting the reins of government is to be able to distribute money from the treasury. Doesn't matter what the system is, they vary in how they do that, but that's the point. And in our system, you've got to get a little support from a lot of people. Kim Jong Un just needs a hell of a lot of support from a fairly small group of people. But in a democracy, you need a little support from a hell of a lot of people. How do you do that? By handing out money, government benefits, three and a half dozen different social programs that make sure nobody's going to starve. And so the second very broad and easy to understand principle is people go for their best alternative. They will do their best option. And for Americans, working in a field in the heat and the dust bent over is not nearly their best option. For some Guatemalan it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

I just, I don't understand how we got to where we're okay with that or think that that's a workable plan going forward that doesn't end up with like, I've been taking in a lot of French Revolution stuff over the weekend. You know, that sort of society falling apart.

[Joe Getty]

I believe the French Revolution is your Roman Empire, although you are quite interested in the Roman Empire as well.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is.

[Joe Getty]

Well, so the answer of how we get there is because nobody asks the question, the moral question there, the one that we keep harping on, it's not part of the conversation at all.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, it wasn't. ABC this week did a long segment on this topic and not a word of. Doesn't seem a little weird to have a society where you've declared certain jobs off limits for your citizens. Like, no, that's too grungy a job. Even at 29 an hour, you just don't want to have to do. I mean, would you do that with your own kids? I'll, I'll keep supporting you, you know, until you're 30 or past, rather than you go do that job. What?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Who would live their lives like that?

[Joe Getty]

Democracies end when they realize they can vote themselves money from the treasury. Can you imagine running on the platform? I'm going to get you off of your couch and into the field. Good luck with that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right?

[Joe Getty]

We're a soft, decadent country. That's just, that's it.

[Jack Armstrong]

We really are. Which is what France was when they fell apart. Not to get back to the revolution, but. And then here they wrapped up the conversation with this portion.

[Unknown]

Deporting undocumented workers in California is complicated. The state enacted a measure in 2017 that prevents state resources from being used for federal immigration enforcement. And while that law varies by city and county, California is the sanctuary city capital of America with dozens of cities and counties protecting undocumented residents from arrest based solely on their immigration status.

[Jack Armstrong]

So that's a problem. I mean, it all fits together as part of a puzzle. I hate the whole thing, but if you're going to accept. I'm not, but apparently we have accepted that our American born people shouldn't have to do those jobs. Well, then you're gonna have to have illegals here. And then if you're gonna have illegals here, you can't have them being deported. So you gotta be a sanctuary county. I mean, it all fits together.

[Joe Getty]

Or you just admit all of the above and you design a temporary worker.

[Jack Armstrong]

Program, which is what Congress should do. Also not a part of the conversation where they said, well, if you want it to be this way, and apparently people do well, then Congress needs to sit down and come up with a very complex system for workers or making these people citizens or whatever it is you're going to do. But you got to come up with a plan. All the arguments I seem to see on the Sunday talk shows, nobody was offering anything other than continuing to just randomly let people come in by the millions, come and go by the millions. Not know who they are. Martha Raditz even admitted to whoever was pushing back on this story. There are 600,000 known criminals. Not the crime of being illegal, but like other crimes from Mexico or Venezuela. 600,000 criminals in the United States right now. We don't know where they are. What kind of. Who does that?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah, that's nuts. Yeah, it is. It's, it's self destructive. It's, it's horrible because we won't get to the root questions. And the final annoying reality I'd like to trot out there. This is why I don't get many invitations to dinner parties. Oh, you invited Mr. Annoying Reality. Oh, good. Is the left raises money from soft heads. In my opinion with their no human being is illegal. Build bridges, not walls. Nonsense. And the right raises money on boot them all out, seal the borders. And to say we're going to craft a guest worker program that's going to let 1.1 million people in temporarily. We'll keep track of them, blah, blah, blah. We're going to streamline the course. It's just, you can't raise money on that. It's too complicated. The devil is in the details and there's always plenty to anger, you know, virtually everybody in the discussion. So I don't know, I don't mean to be discouraging, but as long as small money donations rule politics, it's going to be hard to work out stuff like this.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm just appalled by the idea. I've always cringed when anybody says those are jobs Americans won't do. That makes me cringe. You cannot be a strong, functioning, successful society if you've decided certain jobs are off limits to your citizens. That's sickening as a notion.

[Joe Getty]

Well, that's how empires fall back to Rome. Or if you'd prefer, I assume with your French Revolution passion, you'd like to say see guillotines all over America cutting off the heads of the disloyal or immigrant. I don't know what in your your crazy world.

[Michael]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack more Joe podcasts and our hot links at Armstrong and getty.com Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty the Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Joe Getty]

Here's your freedom loving quote of the day. It's an absolute classic. Frank sent it along. He said it's probably a little long, but what the heck, we always have time for it. It's from Lord Woodhouselee, also known as Alexander Fraser Tyler from back in the 1700s. A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. Then he goes into a bit of history. These nations have progressed through the sequence from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

[Jack Armstrong]

So where are we right now? Somewhere between apathy and dependence.

[Joe Getty]

Yes. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah, we've certainly progressed past selfishness to apathy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Apathy to dependence. I think you nailed it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yep, Baby boomers were the selfish and we moved into the apathy. Now we're headed into the dependence. Yep, there you go. That sounds pretty accurate. I think that's absolutely right. And I was thinking about this last night when I went to bed for some reason about how there's a shelf life to these things and there just is. Always has been, probably always will be. And it's depressing. Really freaking depressing.

[Joe Getty]

Unless you consider the following. This is your cheer you up note during every one of those stages. Smart people, energetic people. Well, I'm not very energetic, so let's just go smart, smart and semi energetic people have found ways to craft happy, productive lives. It just gets a little tougher.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

What? In the words of the old bluesman, what is you going to do?

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? I understand if you're going to focus on you and yours, but kind of like the whole thing to last for a while.

[Joe Getty]

But I kind of wanted a pony for Christmas. All right, wake up. Grow up, mailbag.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, geez.

[Joe Getty]

Drop us mailbag at Armstrong and getty.com when convenient. I. I had a screed yesterday. I unleashed a screed about how the Internet fertilizes stupidity. I never would have thought thought of it again as long as I lived, except several emailers have brought it up.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is pretty good. I forgot it already myself.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, Rich says Joe's book about the Internet fertilizing stupidity. He says, true, but it's not fertilizing women. Whoa. Hence the low birth rates. That's. That could be an angle on my book. Rich, I'll give you full credit. Thanks, bud.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Internet fertilizer stupidity might be your best quote ever.

[Joe Getty]

And I forgot I said it. Anyway, Mark and Stanton writes, gents, regarding the MSNBC reporter and the Other media chuckleheads describing our Marjorie Taylor Greene is the most conservative Republican in the House, whatever. Which is an absurd description. I think a better description was inadvertently coined earlier in the show by Joe. You might say Marjorie Taylor Greene is a grandstanding moron, quote, fertilizing stupidity in her caucus. Judging by the Republican caucus actions lately, this is producing a bumper crop of dysfunction and asinity. The sun is a mighty powerful lead, Mark. Instant.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and one of the reasons I.

[Joe Getty]

Love that as a sign off, by the way, Mark, one of the reasons.

[Jack Armstrong]

I hate so much is portraying a variety of things as conservative is it comes from the liberal media. They want conservative to have a stench to it. But there's nothing conservative about Marjorie Taylor Greene or Matt Gaetz.

[Joe Getty]

That.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's not a. They're not extra cons conservative as they're portrayed in the media. That's not what they are.

[Joe Getty]

I would have to work for a while to come up with a term for exactly what they are. More like Trumpy is not bad.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I don't think you. I don't think you would turn to political science for a label for them though, correct?

[Joe Getty]

Oh, no, no, no. You would turn to Marshall McLuhan. Was that the name of the guy who coined the media as the message and just the modern, the postmodern media world whipping up interest and fervor and clicks and that sort of thing? We're out of time already. I've got a lot great stuff here, Michael.

[Jack Armstrong]

We got, I believe, a lot more show to watch. Quick question for you. What if you happen to miss this unbelievable radio program?

[Joe Getty]

The answer is easy, friends. Just download our podcast, Armstrong and Getty on Demand. It's the podcast version of the broadcast show available anytime, any day, every single podcast platform known to man.

[Jack Armstrong]

Download it now. Armstrong and Getty on Demand.

[Michael]

Armstrong and Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Joe Getty]

So, a quick aside before we get into the main thrust of the segment. I am a very, very lucky man in that in addition to the other aspects of our relationship, my wife and I are our best friends and she was walking our dog, apparently, and texted me. We'd surveyed yesterday whilst walking Baxter in our neighborhood, there was a dead possum.

[Jack Armstrong]

And how do you know it was not just playing its own name?

[Joe Getty]

I tell you what, it was a method actor because it. It had gone to the trouble of decaying, disarraying itself.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay?

[Joe Getty]

There was no bodily integrity there. I don't want to get too disgusting, right? But anyway, my. My best friend, my wife just texted me, keeping Me up to date. There is very little of that possum left. The vultures must have found it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Keeping an eye on the dp, right?

[Joe Getty]

Just bringing her man up to date. I'm thinking, how's that dead possum? I don't know. I'm at work.

[Jack Armstrong]

I had a similar thing going with my wife back in the day about what we called the jo the jug.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, okay, well, now I got it because I remember the story the jug.

[Jack Armstrong]

O urine, because there was a big giant jug of urine that some truck driver apparently had dropped off at a corner where you get on the interstate and it was there for days. I would get text saying the J O U is still there.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, that's so gross.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is. But truck drivers say they got needs. Damn it. They're filling our stores with of goods. It's important work.

[Joe Getty]

They needs to pull over and pee in a toilet, please. So on a much more serious topic, part of me wants to. I don't know. I don't want to. I'm looking at the clock. Yeah, we'll give it a try. Maybe we'll take a break. Midway through. I am not as hardcore, I think, as some view on the right to life, and I don't mean abortion, but as an individualist and a small libertarian, I actually think that if you are afflicted by a terrible, terrible dread disease and you decide, no, I'm going to end my days on earth on my terms as opposed to the diseases terms, I actually think you have that right.

[Jack Armstrong]

What if you're just bored with life?

[Joe Getty]

Well, see, that's the problem. And we're talking here about Canada, which. And just as an aside, our closest allies, Canada in particular and Great Britain are doing some crazy, crazy stuff in terms of constitutional rights and progressive policies and stuff like that. If you think they're like America but with funny accents, that's not true anymore. Anyway, more on that another time. Maybe I'll go through a list. But I have not been staunchly against some of the right to die discussions. But at the same time, if you look into it in a sober way, you realize there are many slippery slopes you can go down. And indeed, Canada, which has embraced the idea of assisted suicide. The sub headline of the Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Nicholas Tomeno, which I found extremely compelling, is assisted suicide was sold as compassionate. In practice, it has turned out to be monstrous.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's interesting because it's all. It's on my life. And it's always been a talk radio topic. It's always been Theoretical, but now somebody has tried it large scale, and we have some evidence of how it actually would turn out.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. And he quotes Charles Krauthammer, and that's underdone lately, as he was a brilliant man. He was looking at a Supreme Court case called Vaco v. Quill. The court was looking at physician assisted suicide, and the Supreme Court held unanimously that the Constitution does not create a right to that procedure. Krauthammer wrote, quote, we are being asked to become a society where when the tormented soul on the ledge asks us for our help in granting him relief, we oblige him with a push.

[Jack Armstrong]

Lawrence Tribe, I think the tormented soul would say, my relief is going to be not having to be alive anymore.

[Joe Getty]

Well, right, but Krauthammer is saying that we as a society should not put ourselves in the position of pushing them or. I don't know. It's difficult in a situation where you don't need any help to come up with the right metaphor. But anyway, Lawrence Tribe, who argued the case for the plaintiff, suggested that the slope would not be slippery. The procedure would be granted to the patient with end stage heart failure, not the man on the ledge. At the same time, Tribe posited that people at the threshold at the end of life enjoy the liberty to decide how they die. And I would agree.

[Jack Armstrong]

Sure, absolutely.

[Joe Getty]

In principle. In principle. But Krauthammer spotted the arguments whole. Why couldn't the chronically ill, who face a lifetime of agni. That's a quote from the case. Or the healthy but bereft, avail themselves of the same. Right. Where do you draw the line for who has that right?

[Jack Armstrong]

And why would the government ever draw a line about that?

[Joe Getty]

Right. And as a discussion, I think it's a really interesting and compelling one. What happens when someone tries it? But as Sowell said, you know, a lot of recent history is replacing what works with what sounds good. And you really have to think hard. It is so easy to get duped by what sounds good. You've got to think of, all right, what will be the second tier effects of this? What will be the effects of those effects? How will human beings actually act if we change the world in this way? So Canada's undergone a crash course in what the country calls medical assistance in dying, or maid, they call it, began in 2015 when the Supreme Court. Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Don't like giving this a kind of cutesy acronym to cover up what's going on there. That seems like an intentional thing right there.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. I was uncomfortable even saying it. Yeah. But The Supreme Court in Canada ruled in Carter vs. Canada that the law prohibiting physician assisted dying interfered with the liberty and security of people with grievous and irremediable medical conditions. And Parliament codified this decision the following year.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know what this reminds me of? Before you even go further to where I know you're going sure. Is the marijuana argument and how it happened in America, it was always the oh so people who have cancer and have no appetite can't have marijuana, when the intention of most of those people all along was to legalize recreational use of marijuana. But they had the COVID of the oh so cancer victims can't, patients can't have marijuana. That's what I wonder what's going on here, you know.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I think some of it may be premeditated. I think a lot of it's just naive in this case. But draw your own conclusion, certainly. So lawmakers thought that they were imposing limits. The Justice Minister at the time said, and I quote, we do not wish to promote premature death as a solution to all medical suffering. And the plaintiff's lead lawyer in that case said, quote, in almost every case, doctors will want to keep, help keep their patients staying alive, not die. We know physicians will be reluctant gatekeepers. But it turns out that the Supreme Court of Quebec ruled shortly after the original law was passed that it was unconstitutional because some of the wording said that an applicant's death from a, quote, grievous and irremediable medical condition must be reasonably foreseeable. And they said, well, that's a little vague or it just doesn't work in practice. So Parliament amended that, opening wider the door to facilitate a death. The new law dropped some of the safeguards, such as the minimum 10 day assessment period between request and provision. They say it also proposed mental illness as an eligible condition, the implementation of which the government delayed for a few years. But the message for everyone else remains that same. If you want to die, you needn't wait. And the numbers are astounding. Assisted suicide is now at least the fifth leading cause of death in Canada. Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Reported 13,000 plus lives in 2022.

[Jack Armstrong]

Fifth leading cause of death.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. Keeping in mind that I don't think I'm wrong, that Canada's population is less than that of California. Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's about the same. Yeah, it's 30 some million. Yeah, it's very, very small country for the, the geographic size of it.

[Joe Getty]

Now, the government believed doctors wouldn't merely rubber stamp applications. Yet in 2022, more than 81% of petitions resulted in deaths, including for vision slash, hearing loss and diabetes. He documents that the percentage of denied requests has been falling from years from 8% in 2019 to 3 and a half percent two years ago, even as the number of applications has increased.

[Jack Armstrong]

Maybe I'm just too much of a libertarian on this for some people, but if somebody goes blind and they say, I don't want to live the rest of my life blind, I'd rather be dead, I don't understand the government's role in telling them they can't.

[Joe Getty]

I would agree. Absolutely agree. Here's the part that really, really bothers me.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think that's a bad decision. I think there'd be plenty of ways to find a way to have a very rich, enjoyable life while blind, for instance, or a number of other things. And I think your kids would like to have you around. But I'm just saying, I don't know. The government gets to step in and say, no, we don't think so. We think you should keep going.

[Joe Getty]

I would agree. I think it's a perfect case of. I would argue vehemently or compassionately against that as your solution, but I recognize your right to do it nonetheless. But there's the case of this gentleman, Roger Foley, who suffers from a degenerative neurological disorder. And as his condition worsened, he resigned from his job after several years in home care in which he says he was mistreated. He was placed in a mental health ward. He said, I became extremely suicidal. After he shared those thoughts with staff, they began to float the idea of euthanasia. That alarmed him, so he began to record the conversation secretly. He later shared them with Canadian journalists. In one, a hospital ethicist threatens Mr. Foley with denial of insurance coverage and said it would cost him north of fifteen hundred dollars a day to stay in the hospital. When Mr. Foley protested, the ethicist retorted. Roger, this is not my show. My piece of this was to talk to you about if you had any interest in assisted dying. And he didn't. And the person tried to argue him into it. And then, what the hell. Yes, well, and then there's the. And I've been hearing this argument against it for a very, very long time. Once you open this door, there will be pressure from insurance companies, there will be pressure from relatives who might want to inherit your money or they might be paying the bill, and God bless them if you are being ruined financially providing end of life care to someone who is going to die. I don't think it makes you a.

[Jack Armstrong]

Monster to not Want it to happen today as opposed to next Wednesday if the difference is like $150,000.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Right. So the concern is, and it's borne out by the Canadian experience, when you open the door to this, the worst impulses of humanity run wild.

[Jack Armstrong]

That argument gets my attention definitely because that not only could happen, guaranteed to happen. Guaranteed to happen. And then you're in. And having been a guy. So I had cancer and was in treatment for nine months, chemotherapy and radiation. And I had to, I at least thought about this some, you know, geez, if it goes wrong, what's it going to be like at the end? How miserable do I want to be? I'm miserable right now. So I didn't think about it a lot, but I thought about it some. But if, if I'm, if I'm headed down the road of misery. First of all, you're on so many drugs, I couldn't even think that clearly as it was a lot of times, let alone end of life sort of drugs. You're in no situation to have presence of mind, even make a decision from a chemical standpoint, let alone the emotions. Then you got family members who might not like you, who want you to die because they're going to get. Sure would like to get that inheritance before summer so I can get my boat. You're going to tell me that's not going to happen? Of course that's going to happen.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. And there's an interesting principle. I'm sure there's a. Probably a Latin word for this. It's the reason prostitution is illegal. It's to keep it at a certain level. There is no real intention to stomp it out, stamp it out completely. It would take way too much time and money. But if something is illegal, it's like speed limits. Nobody expects you to actually go 65, but it keeps people from going 110. The reality, and I have this on fairly good authority in the United States, is that there are plenty of doctors who, convinced of your sincerity and sober mindedness at the end, might not stand in the way of certain things happening that would end your life, perhaps pharmaceutically, for instance. And maybe that's the way it ought to be.

[Jack Armstrong]

Man, this is a tough one then. So my stated thought is the government has no business whatsoever deciding whether or not I want to be alive or not. Zero. But you get just the other side of that and you're right into the insurance stuff and everything else.

[Joe Getty]

Right. And maybe the best situation is it's only done when it's clearly the right thing. And everybody keeps their mouth shut.

[Jack Armstrong]

I personally, and this is probably easy to say when I'm not in horrible pain. End of my life, but I personally would like to have the full human experience of having it happen naturally, whatever that.

[Joe Getty]

If I say, doc, I have a list of people I'd like to take with me. How does that factor out?

[Michael]

Armstrong and Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I was talking to a babysitter I was interviewing yesterday, and we got into this topic. This is not anything we haven't discussed before, we haven't thought about. She was a political science major. So we got into a little bit of a conversation about that. I, I just was asking, do you think things will ever go back to where this isn't everybody's life? All the time, following politics constantly and pendulum or continuum, that sort of stuff. Kind of interesting. But I said, you know, you're, you're, you're young, so you don't know this. But people didn't used to talk about politics all the time. In fact, we almost never talked about it. I said, you know, when I. None of my. And I hadn't thought about it because she's in college. All my friends in college, I don't have the slightest idea what their politics were. I. The slightest idea never came up. I couldn't. I couldn't tell you. Now, people that I hung out with all the time, what their politics.

[Joe Getty]

Beer were our politics.

[Jack Armstrong]

And she looked at me like I was crazy. She said, wow. I said, in girlfriends, I'm thinking of all the girlfriends I had in college. I don't have any idea what their politics were or their parents. And she said, that's crazy. She said, that's the first question you ask somebody when you meet them now, the first question.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

And we both couldn't believe each other's life experience around this. I have no idea what any of my girlfriend's political positions were because we never discussed it.

[Joe Getty]

And who cares?

[Jack Armstrong]

And who cares?

[Joe Getty]

I like it when you. When we spay and spend time together and talk, that one thing you do.

[Jack Armstrong]

I love when you do that, but I don't care whether you're a Republican or a Democrat.

[Joe Getty]

That's perverse. It's absolutely perverse. And it speaks to a couple of. A handful of.

[Jack Armstrong]

It can't be good.

[Joe Getty]

Well, there are books written about this stuff, but it's the omnipresence of government in our lives and the decay of our other social institutions that gave our lives meaning and a sense of belongingness.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? And I was thinking, okay, so that's fine if you're a lefty. And the first question is always, you know, what are you? Who do you vote for? What's your politics? Because you can, you know, be out and proud and whoever the girl you're talking to. I'm thinking about myself as a guy. The girl you're talking to is almost the same as you guaranteed. But what if you're not? You either have to lie or not date anybody or have any friends.

[Joe Getty]

Yes, I guess that is correct. Yes, absolutely correct. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

You know, to that end, we don't have much time, but I can squeeze this in. Recent polling shows Married men are 59 to 39 Republican. 59 to 39. Married women are 56 to 42 Republican. Unmarried men are 52, 45 Republican. Unmarried women are 68, 31 Democrat. The Democratic Party is. Has become the party of unmarried women. And to some extent, either low T males or those who are just so desperate to have a woman that they pretend to be Democrats. I don't know, but that's. That's shocking. So Taylor Swift's endorsement, for instance, how could that be a surprise to anyone? That's like, her entire constituency. Oh, and it's worth also mentioning the New York Post had an interesting piece the other day pointing that over the last eight years, especially the last eight years, women have become much, much more left wing than they were. So it's not just that they're left, they're way more left.

[Michael]

Armstrong and Getty.