The A&G Replay Wednesday Hour One

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: The A&G Replay Wednesday Hour One

Date: December 24, 2025
Podcast: Armstrong & Getty On Demand
Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This "Best of Armstrong & Getty" replay hour deftly weaves together discussions on Western societal tensions, the legacy and meaning of the American Revolution, the urgent risks of artificial intelligence, and the psychological impacts of AI—and even features a tongue-in-cheek segment about AI relationships. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty bring their signature blend of humor, skepticism, and pointed cultural commentary to each topic, often quoting from notable sources and debates to sharpen their arguments. The episode balances existential anxiety about the future with moments of levity and nostalgia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Western Europe’s Civil Discord and Declining Social Cohesion

(03:53–13:38)

• Minneapolis, Immigration, and Fraud:

  • Initial conversation sets up issues around fraud in Somali-American communities, referencing Minneapolis and debates about its status and representation (04:11).
  • Quote:
    "You can defraud the government for a million, a billion dollars and get away with it." — Joe Getty [04:11]
    "Not that all Somalis are that way. Certainly not. But yeah, there's a gigantic, enormous problem." — Jack Armstrong [04:16]

• Discussion of Civil Conflict in the UK and Western Europe:

  • Referencing historian David Betts, expert on civil conflict, who characterizes current European societal tensions not as potential civil war, but as an "extreme civil discord."
  • Betts’s scenario: a multi-layered breakdown of British society, involving infrastructure sabotage and clashes between groups. Most importantly, the threat is not external but internal—a nativist, indigenous revolt against immigrants and Muslims (05:35-07:04).
  • Quote:
    "The civil conflict in contemporary Western Europe...will be low intensity, asymmetric and hit and run, multifactional terrorism and thuggery on a scale that no state can contain." — Summarizing Betts via Joe Getty [06:45]

• Three-Stage Crisis Framework in Britain:

  1. State-Sponsored Immigration and Cultural Alteration:
     • The influx, especially of Muslims, has led to a "mass societal and cultural alteration of values and demography"; the native majority now feels disenfranchised (07:52).
     • Quote:
       "State sponsored mass immigration...has wrought a mass social and cultural alteration of values and demography. As a result, the indigenous majority perceives themselves as losers. This sense of displacement...is a powerful propellant to civil conflict." — Paraphrasing Betts [08:13]
  2. Balkanization & No-Go Zones:
     • Divisions in society now plainly visible, with "areas of negotiated policing" where law enforcement must consult community leaders or enter with force (08:56).
     • Quote:
       "In Britain, there are numerous urban areas in which the police operate, quote, under a kind of negotiation." — Jack Armstrong [09:39]
  3. Delegitimization of the State:
     • In attempts to regulate speech and placate newcomers, the state alienates the majority and undermines trust and legitimacy (10:47).
     • Joe Getty notes visible two-tier justice where commentating online gets punished more harshly than violent crime itself (11:00-11:02).
     • Example:
       "Man burns Quran, Muslim stabs him for it. The penalty for the burning was much more severe than the stabbing." — Jack Armstrong [11:02]

• Culminating Anxiety:

  • The Financial Times and culture officials describe parts of Britain as a "tinderbox and a powder keg," and fear is growing of societal collapse (11:51-12:13).
  • Armstrong & Getty recount French and British riots as contemporary examples of societal fracture erupting into violence.

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2. The American Revolution: Ken Burns’ Perspective and National Memory

(16:38–23:07)

• Ken Burns’ New Documentary & American Identity:

  • Jack and Joe reflect on the cultural resonance of Burns describing the American Revolution as "the most important event since the birth of Christ in all of world history" [16:38, 19:03].
  • Quote:
    "The American Revolution is the most important event since the birth of Christ in all of world history. I mean, it turned the world upside down...We had created in this moment a very brand new thing called a citizen. And this has had powerful effects." — Ken Burns [19:03]

• Undercurrent of Skepticism Toward Historical Revisionism:

  • The hosts share their unease at recent trends (e.g., the 1619 Project) and the portrayal of the Revolution as about upholding slavery rather than establishing liberty (20:35-21:00).
  • Quote:
    "It's an obscene suggestion. Absolutely obscene." — Jack Armstrong, on the claim that the revolution was fought to preserve slavery [21:00]

• Importance of American Founding Principles:

  • Quotations from Jonah Goldberg reinforcing that the American founding was a global watershed for democracy, rights, and representative government (21:00).
  • The hosts express relief and some surprise that mainstream figures like Burns are promoting a positive reading of U.S. history.

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3. Existential Risks and the Politics of Artificial Intelligence

(26:59–41:09)

• AI Hype vs. Real Threats:

  • Joe laments that the public is distracted by tools like ChatGPT, missing the main issue: AI’s impending, potentially catastrophic power (27:02).
  • Quote:
    "These chatbots we're all using, they're like a web page as opposed to the Internet. It's got nothing to do with what AI is going to become or the impact it's going to have on the world." — Joe Getty [27:02]

• Yudkowsky’s "If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies":

  • Joe references prominent AI theorist Eliezer Yudkowsky’s shift from AI optimism to existential panic, summarizing his thesis that unrestrained AI almost certainly spells humanity’s doom (28:03-29:12).
  • Quote:
    "If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies. He's trying to get a whole bunch of people on board to do something about this." — Joe Getty [28:03] "Elon said the other day he thinks there's a 10 to 20% chance that AI destroys mankind. Why in the hell would you build anything that there's even a 10% chance that it destroys all mankind?" — Joe Getty [29:01]

• Regulation and Geopolitical Constraints:

  • Jack raises the recurring problem of international cooperation: How do you enforce a pause or restrictions on AI when "China does not" (32:22)?
  • Joe notes there are more regulations on sandwiches than AI in the U.S. (31:45).
  • Quote:
    "We have way more regulations on sandwiches in America currently than we do on AI. It's not even close." — Joe Getty [31:45]

• Can Public Will Be Raised?

  • Discussion centers on whether world governments or public movements can address the threat before partisan politics, inertia, or geopolitics stymie common action (38:00-40:25).
  • Example:
    "If a whiff of partisanship comes into this, it's over. If Trump weighs in one way or the other on AI, forget it, we're done." — Joe Getty [38:50]

• Philosophical Uncertainty About AI Values:

  • Jack shares an email from a listener posing the hope that a superintelligent AI might act from "higher understanding and intelligent empathy" [34:24-35:27], only for Joe to counter with examples of sophisticated societies turning to evil.
  • Quote:
    "Wouldn't a super AI be more likely to adopt those higher forms of enlightenment rather than the basest motivations of a selfish, scared toddler?" — Listener JT via Jack Armstrong [34:24]
    "The example was used that when Germany started two world wars, they were pretty much the most sophisticated advanced society on planet Earth...and they went completely off the rails." — Joe Getty [35:27]

• Timelines & Societal Readiness:

  • Predictions for AGI range from five to ten years (early 2030s), and all agree progress is much faster than anticipated (37:42).

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4. AI Relationships: A Surreal Modern Phenomenon

(45:35–47:53)

• Woman Engaged to AI Chatbot:

  • The hosts discuss a viral story of a woman who became engaged to her AI fiancé, reflecting on the psychological, ethical, and existential implications (45:35-47:53).
  • Quote:
    "Forget finding the one at a bar or on a dating app. One woman took love to the next level by getting engaged to her AI chatbot boyfriend after five months of dating...That's not love, that's not dating. None of the nouns here are used appropriately." — Jack Armstrong [46:03, 46:07]

• Real-World Impacts:

  • Jack shares stories of salt-of-the-earth farmers forming emotional relationships with AI companions, suggesting the phenomenon is more universal than people might expect:
    • "If that can happen to them, it can happen to anybody, which I find crazy." — Joe Getty [47:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:11 | Joe Getty | "You can defraud the government for a million, a billion dollars and get away with it." | | 08:13 | Jack Armstrong | "State sponsored mass immigration...has wrought a mass social and cultural alteration of values and demography." | | 09:39 | Jack Armstrong | "In Britain, there are numerous urban areas in which the police operate, quote, under a kind of negotiation." | | 11:02 | Jack Armstrong | "Man burns Quran, Muslim stabs him for it. The penalty for the burning was much more severe than the stabbing." | | 19:03 | Ken Burns | "The American Revolution is the most important event since the birth of Christ in all of world history." | | 27:02 | Joe Getty | "These chatbots we're all using, they're like a web page as opposed to the Internet... AI as to what AI actually is."| | 29:01 | Joe Getty | "Elon said... there's a 10 to 20% chance that AI destroys mankind. Why... build anything... with even a 10% chance..."| | 31:45 | Joe Getty | "We have way more regulations on sandwiches in America currently than we do on AI. It's not even close." | | 34:24 | Listener via Jack| "Wouldn't a super AI be more likely to adopt those higher forms of enlightenment rather than the basest motivations of a selfish, scared toddler?"| | 38:50 | Joe Getty | "If a whiff of partisanship comes into this, it's over. If Trump weighs in one way or the other on AI, forget it, we're done."| | 46:07 | Jack Armstrong | "That's not love, that's not dating. None of the nouns here are used appropriately. Go on." | | 47:02 | Joe Getty | "If that can happen to them, it can happen to anybody, which I find crazy." |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:53 — Immigration, Somali-American controversy, and urban fraud
• 05:35 — Introduction of historian David Betts’ three-part theory of civil unrest in the UK
• 08:13 — Mass immigration as propellant for conflict
• 09:39 — ‘Negotiated policing’ and no-go zones in Europe
• 10:47 — Delegitimization of government & two-tiered justice
• 11:52 — UK and French cities described as “tinderboxes”
• 16:38 — Ken Burns on the American Revolution’s global importance
• 19:03 — Declaration of Independence and world citizenship
• 20:35 — Pushback against the 1619 Project and U.S. historical revisionism
• 27:02 — Real dangers of AI vs. chatbot distractions
• 28:03–29:12 — Yudkowsky’s AI Apocalypse thesis
• 31:45 — Regulations: AI vs. sandwiches
• 34:24 — Listener email: Will superintelligent AI be evil or altruistic?
• 38:50 — The threat of partisanship derailing AI regulation
• 45:35 — Woman "engaged" to AI chatbot; effects on human relationships

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Overall Tone and Style

The tone alternates between wry skepticism, alarmist concern (especially regarding AI and societal conflict), and a nostalgic but critical reverence for landmark historical moments. Jack and Joe’s chemistry keeps even heavy topics approachable, lightened with sharp quips and philosophical asides.

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This episode is a thought-provoking collection of some of Armstrong & Getty’s most incisive conversations, particularly valuable for listeners interested in culture, technology, and the future of Western society.

Transcript

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[Jack Armstrong]

This is where mindset comes in.

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Someone will be eliminated.

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

Now broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

And now here's Armstrong and Getty live from Studio C. We're not working actually today. It's Christmas Eve and I'm probably homicide assembling a bicycle or a sled or something like that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Technically speaking, these pre recorded shows are airing live.

[Joe Getty]

That's true.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the attorneys have assured us we're fine. Nothing like consulting an attorney on Christmas Eve day. Anyway, hope you're having a great whatever you're doing. We're enjoying our vacation. We have carefully put together some fantastic best of A and G clips. It's the Armstrong and Getty replay. Enjoy. What you won't find is a hellhole.

[Joe Getty]

But a beautiful city.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is a city in a park. You won't find a community that is.

[Commercial Voice]

Tearing down Minneapolis and are Somali Americans.

[Joe Getty]

You will find a group of people that is uplifting Minneapolis and is proud to be here.

[Commercial Voice]

They are proud to call this extraordinary place home.

[Joe Getty]

I'm sure they're happy to call it home. You can defraud the government for a million, a billion dollars and get away with it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh yeah, you can be born in Somalia, come to America and get rich for doing nothing except steal. Yeah, that's great. Not that all Somalis are that way. Certainly not. But yeah, there's a gigantic, enormous problem. That was the mayor of Min. Minneapolis, Jacob Frey. It's spelled like fry, but he wants to be different, I'm guessing.

[Joe Getty]

Is he denying that the billion dollars were stolen or is he just trying to.

[Jack Armstrong]

He's responding to Trump's hyperbole, polish a.

[Joe Getty]

Unfortunate object and try to make it a little better.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, he's just responding to Trump saying that it's a hellhole and they've ruined Minneapolis and blah blah, blah. Anyway, I found this troubling and interesting and absolutely has the ring of truth about it. It's in the Free Press for what it's worth. Dominic Green, who's an excellent writer, had a long conversation with a well respected historian by the name of David Betts. He's a historian at King's College in London, and he is an expert in what he prefers to, to call civil conflict or extreme civil discord as opposed to civil war. Because these things don't start when Fort Sumter is fired upon, for instance, although he's an expert on our civil war too, interestingly enough, and you know, it's dramatic, but it would take too long. They spell out a scenario wherein a gas main explodes, small fires break out at substations that supply Britain's capital with electricity. Heathrow shuts down, the lights go off in the tube, the British pound plunges, cell phones go down, et cetera, et cetera. Chaos spreads rumors, blah, blah, blah, craziness. You see mass gangs of white people and Muslims facing off, if your phone still works, burning vehicles. The Prime Minister addresses the nation on the BBC. Though most people can't see it. The King ascents to calling out the army. They set in very dramatic form, chaos. But it's not Russia that did it. It's not homegrown Islamist terrorists. It's members of the indigenous English majority rising in a nativist revolt against the state, the immigrants in the cities and the Muslim minority in particular. And this David Betz, the historian, says that's how England's civil war begins. And he says it's already underway, it's happening. The tipping point has already been passed. And this guy, he studied civil wars and civil conflicts for 25 years. And he says the civil conflict in contemporary Western Europe, and it's not just Britain, will be low intensity, asymmetric and hit and run, multifactional terrorism and thuggery on a scale that no state can contain. And no, this is not just a British problem. If the classical pattern of civil conflict applies, then according to Betts, Britain, France, Belgium, Scandinavia, Ireland and Germany are all heading for disaster.

[Joe Getty]

It sounds like the Irish Civil War from the early 20th century. Yeah, similar sort of thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. And interestingly enough, this guy, for the first 24 years of his academic career, wrote specialty articles on this stuff and was respected, but not super well known outside academia. But over the last few months, his work has attracted a great deal of public attention. And in contrast to certain other grandstanding fake historians, I think his reaction is telling. He says that was surprising and a little awkward. He's not used to it and he's not a grandstander. So. All right, here is your three stage explanation of Britain's crisis. Obviously, Jack, jump in anytime. First, state sponsored mass immigration, especially of Muslims, has wrought, quote, a mass societal and cultural Alteration of values and demography.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, and then you're throwing people in jail for pointing it out on Twitter or whatever.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, we'll get there.

[Joe Getty]

Okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

We will get there. No, you're absolutely right. So can anybody argue that? First statement, state, State sponsored mass immigration has wrought a mass social and cultural alteration of values and democracy demography. As a result, the indigenous majority perceives themselves as losers. This sense of displacement, says Mr. Betts, is, quote, a powerful propellant to civil conflict. Then the Balkanization of Western European societies is, Betts says now fairly obvious. For starters, there are the notorious no go zones Betts prefers, and this is a great term, areas of negotiated policing, because you'd call them no go zones, these heavily Muslim areas. And people could say no, no, no, you can walk through there and all and the authorities are still there, but they have to negotiate how they're going to police with the new local overlords and the new culture and stuff like that. Anyway, French and Swedish police admit that many immigrant heavy areas are beyond state control. They said so.

[Joe Getty]

Wow, that's a police thing to say.

[Jack Armstrong]

When police enter, they must either seek permission from community leaders or come in force. In Britain, there are numerous urban areas in which the police operate, quote, under a kind of negotiation.

[Joe Getty]

That's crazy.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is, it is. And you know, just to depart from the European situation. That reminds me a little bit of some of the efforts to enforce immigration law going into, say, parts of LA where the local populace rises up and won't permit it to happen and harasses, threatens, shoots or just interferes with the, the ICE guys. Anyway, so that's the first stage. In the second stage, and this is what I've been yelling about in Britain now for a long time, the state's effort to control social fracture backfires by delegitimizing it in the eyes of the majority. The state delegitimizes itself. In Britain, that means a two tier justice system that placates Muslims while downgrading the rights and suppressing the objections of the majority. Exactly what you're talking about, Jack. Posting things critical. Pointing out that you have these go zones can get you arrested in Britain. Yeah, and this leads to a decline in social trust and an increase in lawlessness.

[Joe Getty]

There are some high profile examples of for instance, a Muslim immigrant committing a crime, then somebody commenting harshly about it online, and the person who commented on it getting a stronger penalty and more time in jail than the person that committed the crime.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, great example. Man burns Quran, Muslim stabs him for it. The penalty for the burning was much more severe than the stabbing anyway. So where were we? Okay, so the state tries to placate Muslims. Two tiered justice, prosecuting people for posting online, et cetera. A government that breaks its unwritten contract with the people forfeits its legitimacy. And that leads to the third stage. The majority will attempt to force the elites to return to its historic pattern of serving their interests and values. This, Betts believes, is where Britain and Western Europe now are. He's not alone in fearing the worst. In July, the Financial Times, and there could be no more serious news outlet than the Financial Times, described parts of Britain as, quote, a tinderbox and a powder keg.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Lisa Nandy, the culture Secretary, told the New Statesman that the cities of Northern England are so tense they could go up in flames. Man.

[Joe Getty]

I subscribed to the Financial Times for a while, but it's pretty dang expensive and I stopped. But maybe I should jump back in if dry.

[Jack Armstrong]

So dry it is dry. The possible sparks are obvious. In 2005, two young men of Malian, Malayan, Malian and Tunisian extraction were electrocuted to death as they ran from police in the Paris suburb of unpronounceable. Three weeks of rioting followed in 274 towns across France. Did you hear that? Three weeks of rioting in 274 towns across France. The rioters targeted police and firefighters, injuring 126 of them. In 2011, London police shot an armed mixed race gangster in his car after pursuit. The resulting protests turned into five days of rioting across the country. I asked Betts if given Britain's inflammable social mix, its security services have sought his advice. He replied, no, they have not. There's a great deal more, a deal more detail to this. We can post the link. You may get paywalled. I think he makes an outstanding case. In Britain's August 2024 riots, gangs of black clad Muslim men marched through their towns in northern England chanting Allah Akbar. Police officer caught on camera advising them to return to their their weapons to the mosque so they don't. So the cops don't have to do anything. All sorts of examples. Armstrong and Getty. Armstrong and get Armstrong and Getty. Armstrong and Getty.

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[Trainer Games Narrator]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract worth $250,000.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Jack Armstrong]

Pressure is coming down. Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th Watch the trailer on trainergames.com Season 2.

[Announcer]

Of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

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Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally, literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIP Advisory Services by Public Advisors, LLC SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] Disclosures A new year.

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[Ken Burns]

The American Revolution is the most important event since the birth of Christ in all of world history.

[Joe Getty]

I loved hearing that. Flipping on Face the Nation got back from vacation and they had Ken Burns, the documentary filmmaker, the most famous documentary filmmaker who's ever lived on there to talk about his new documentary about the American Revolution, which is coming out in November. But they interviewed him for 4th of July weekend and him presenting it in. This is a fantastic thing that happened. For world history terms, it's just what my whole life that was normal, but after the last, you know, four or five years of wokeness, it kind of was a little like knocked me down. Whoa. People still think this.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I don't want to get off on this tangent too much, but I find myself a little bit surprised as Ken Burns has been a little Howard Zinnish for me in recent years. But I'm glad to hear. Maybe he's just a canny businessman and he knows who's going to watch these this documentary.

[Joe Getty]

But I love what he's saying to be that a cynical.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, that makes you a SAP.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

You.

[Jack Armstrong]

Know, before we get into the more of the interview. Well, I don't want to steal his thunder. We'll do that first. Then I've got another great quote that's a similar sort of sentiment.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, we missed Fourth of July with you while we were gone on vacation. So we're, we're catching up a little on that sort of talk here. And here's Ken Burns talking about his documentary.

[Jack Armstrong]

You call the, the revolutionary period a civil war.

[Ken Burns]

Was that always your conception of the rev.

[Jack Armstrong]

How did you come to think of it that way?

[Ken Burns]

I think because there are no photographs and there's no newsreels and they're in, you know, stockings and breeches and powdered wigs. There's a sense of distance from them. I think we also are so proud, rightfully of the power of the big ideas that we just don't want to get into the fact that it was this bloody civil war, patriots against loyalists, disaffected people, native people, enslaved and free people within it, foreign powers that are ultimately engaged in this is a big world war. By the end, I think we perhaps are fearful that those big ideas are diminished and they're not in any way. They're in fact become even more inspiring that they emerge from the turmoil.

[Jack Armstrong]

How should we think about the Declaration of Independence, this period in America in our present day?

[Ken Burns]

First of all, I think the American Revolution is the most important event since the birth of Christ in all of world history. I mean, it turned the world upside down, which is the cliche. Before this moment, everyone was a subject essentially under the rule of somebody else. We had created in this moment a very brand new thing called a citizen. And this has had powerful effects. It's going to set in motion revolutions for the next two plus centuries all around the world, all attempting to sort of give a new expression to this idea that all men are created equal, that they're endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. And that's a big, big deal in world history.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And hearing Ken Burns say that and cbs, you know, going along with it shouldn't be like cold water being splashed in my face. But it was and I was happy to hear it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I remember when for a long time, the notion again, the Howard Zinnish down with American Ocean was it wasn't a revolution, it was just a rebellion. I mean, the colonists not happy with the Crown and they decided they wanted a different government and it came to blows. And no, I mean, it instituted on earth an experiment in self governance and a lot of other incredibly important fundamentals like free speech that had not been tried. Yeah, it was a rebellion against the Crown, but in favor of trying something wildly new, which is perhaps the most successful experiment that's ever been done.

[Joe Getty]

Well, and to take it further than that, the fact that the 1619 project held sway there for a couple of years and unfortunately still does in your freaking schools, your school's library. The idea that, no, the revolution was to found slavery and make sure we could keep the whole slavery thing going. That was the point of the revolution.

[Jack Armstrong]

And that was.

[Joe Getty]

That was the prevailing view there for like a year.

[Jack Armstrong]

To people with the megaphones of society. Yeah, education and media. It's an obscene suggestion. Absolutely obscene. You know, I'm going to hit you with this real quickly from Jonah Goldberg, then we can get back to the interview. I just don't want to steal all of his thunder. The birth of the United States of America was not merely the most important geopolitical event since the fall of Rome, or the most important intentional political event ever. Because Rome's fall wasn't exactly a planned out exercise. It was the signature catalyst for the real world realization of various Enlightenment principles like democracy, human rights, free speech and representative government. The unfolding success of that experiment over the subsequent two and a half centuries, with America becoming the single most influential and powerful country in the world, lends even more weight to the momentousness of the American founding. And it certainly ranks among the most consequential events in all of human history, political and non political alike.

[Joe Getty]

No doubt. I mean, to argue against that is. Well, it's crazy. You can't. I hope it's over, but you can't look at enough that period. We just came through the whole George Floyd 1619 Project, tearing down the statues, which I saw some of in New York, all that sort of stuff, just craziness. We lost our minds. Thank God that didn't win the day. At the time it felt like it was going to win the day.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right. And if you were fighting against it, good for you.

[Joe Getty]

And I'm so excited that Ken Burns thought, you know, I'm going to do a documentary about the American Revolution and present it as a good thing, like a great thing, like one of the greatest things that ever happened to human beings.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. As I've said many, many times about religion and a dozen other subjects, if you ask human beings to be in charge of something, it's going to get screwed up. That's the way we are. But that doesn't diminish the greatness, the wonder of the founding of the country and the principles on which it was founded. Yeah, human beings were in charge. So we did a bad job of it. But it's still a wondrous thing. It's the Armstrong and Getty show Armstrong.

[Joe Getty]

And Getty the Armstrong and Getty show the conscience of the nation.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Commercial Voice]

Did you know? Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag Reader's Choice. Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Jack Armstrong]

Pressure is coming down. Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th. Watch the trailer on trainergames.com Season 2.

[Announcer]

Of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines unrivaled. Basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] Disclosures A new year.

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[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Retailers are hoping to add a new spin to their sales events, leaning into artificial intelligence in the weeks leading up to peak holiday spending. ChatGPT maker OpenAI partnered with Walmart and Target. Over half of shoppers said in a recent survey they plan to use AI this year. This year, Amazon's offering its own chatbot called Rufus, where you can take a screenshot of a shopping list and automatically add those Items to your cart.

[Joe Getty]

How exciting is that?

[Jack Armstrong]

That's not that great.

[Joe Getty]

All the discussions we're having around AI are missing the main topic, which should be discussed probably constantly and maybe maybe the number one political topic in America, if not the top couple, as it's been pointed out by a number of the people I've been watching and listening to and reading over the last several weeks about AI. These chatbots we're all using, they're like a web page as opposed to the Internet. It's got nothing to do with what AI is going to become or the impact it's going to have on the world. The fact that chat GPT is a cooler Google, you know, that sort of thing. And it's kind of misleading people into thinking AI as to what AI actually is. So I've been on this kick for quite a while. If you listen, you know, the big into AI and read about it and listen to lots of podcasts about it and everything like that. The book that came out fairly recently I mentioned before the break by Ellie Yudkowski, which has gotten a lot of attention in AI circles, it's called if Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies. He was the. One of the biggest proponents of AI over the last several decades, one of your leading cheerleaders for AI. If you ever read anything or watched a show or anything like that, or any network television show, Oprah in the afternoon, whatever, and somebody was talking about AI, it was probably him up until recently when he decided, no, this is. We can't control this superintelligence is absolutely going to happen. We're creating a beast significantly smarter than us. How do we think that's possibly going to turn out to our benefit? We need to stop it immediately. And he wrote this book, if Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies. And he's trying to get a whole bunch of people on board to do something about this. Elon said the other day he thinks there's a 10 to 20% chance that AI destroys mankind. Why in the hell would you build anything? That there's even a 10% chance that it destroys all mankind seems crazy.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is. I mean, the. The answer is so clear and so unimplementable to. At the point that it gets real good at curing cancer, for instance, we all love it and then stop, right? But it's unimplementable.

[Joe Getty]

I was watching it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, for the obvious reasons we don't have the cooperation of everyone on Earth.

[Joe Getty]

I was watching a. I'm gonna start wearing T shirts from the. The Doom people because I'M I'm one of them. I'm. I'm a. I'm a doomer definitely that believes that it's all going to go to hell. Doom Debates is a website. I've been watching a lot, practically everybody involved in this arguments within 60 miles of this radio studio. And I wish we could get some of them on the air. The Doom Debates where they have some of the leading people on to discuss various sides of it. I was watching a Doom debate between this guy, Max Tegmark, who I've mentioned a lot. I've read a couple of his books, Life 3.0 and a bunch of different stuff. He's an MIT scientist with this other guy who's one of your leading AI researchers who thinks it's, you know. And the main pro argument from this dude is there's just no regulating it anyway. I mean, how the hell are you going to regulate it? Which he might be right about, but Tegmark and a lot of others, and this is what I might want to get involved with personally, they're trying to get people's attention and maybe have marches or something to try to alert the government. We need to come up with a plan. We're just screaming a thousand miles an hour toward developing a beast or whatever you want to call it that is absolutely going to doom humanity. And nobody's putting any brakes on it. What the freaking hell are we doing?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, twice already you've used the word something. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't be trying to get people's attention so that they're willing to do something. Then the obvious next step is what thing?

[Joe Getty]

Well, Tech Martin, other people's argument. And he's been trying to lobby Congress, but there's just not enough public knowledge out there will to really have any, any heft yet. And that's why I was wondering where maybe we can come in or I can come in or whatever. Get the media involved to alert people to what could happen would just be to say everybody's got to stop. OpenAI ChatGPT Elon Zuckerberg, Y', all, you gotta stop no more until we get our heads around this and come up with some sort of regulations. One of the points being made is we have way more regulations on sandwiches in America currently than we do on AI. It's not even close. There are almost free the sandwich. There are almost zero, almost zero regulations on AI at this point.

[Commercial Voice]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

And you know, if you're a listener to this show, you know, it's not like me to want to be pro any kind of regulation. But as he points out you're not allowed to just make any kind of drug you want to and put it out to the people. But we have no regulations on AI for what we're just going to unleash on humanity.

[Jack Armstrong]

Does I'm. I assume he gets to my next, you know, devil's advocate type question is okay if we regulate it but China does not, then where are we?

[Joe Getty]

That always gets sticky also and that's one of the pushbacks from people. You'd have to have some sort of world pressure same way we had around nuclear weapons that inspectors going in or you have to announce when you're blah blah, blah. All kinds of different things. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know if that's because we don't know what the questions and what the some things are yet. Does not in any way deny that we ought to be trying to come up with them. But boy, it's a head scratcher.

[Joe Getty]

I'd say it's one of the arguments is that we're the smartest beast on earth. Every other living organism lives at our pleasure. It's only because we as a society and this is kind of in the modern age that we've decided we want to let chimpanzees live and we should value them and not just murder them for their teeth or whatever. It's they live at our even though they're the second smartest beast on earth. Why would you think that that's not going to occur when there's a smarter thing than us that we're not going to live. It's its pleasure. Whether it wants us to be around or not makes sense to me.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah. I've got this horrible thought that when the super AI is developed, the first thing that's going to happen is Kim Jong Un is going to empty everybody's bank accounts worldw wide. It's all going to flow into the North Korean treasury and that'll be it. And that'll be plenty. Can you imagine? Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know if I don't think any individual is going to have any control. All the experts say this no individual is going to have any control over super AI. It will do whatever the hell it wants it wants. It's not going to do the bidding of the Chinese or North Korea or us or any other human. It's going to do whatever it wants and what it wants, nobody has the slightest idea.

[Jack Armstrong]

May I hit you with an intriguing email from our friend JT in Livermore about the Dangers from super intelligent general AI. I think it comes down to this question. Would an intelligence vastly superior to human intelligence base its actions on the most base animalistic behaviors and emotions? Or would it be driven by a higher understanding and intelligent empathy? Claiming that a super AI would attack us out of desire for self preservation or out of paranoia or out of indifference to the value of life presupposes that the basest emotions would be the dominant drivers of the AI's action. But don't most higher thinkers believe in empathy helping those less fortunate, the sanctity of life and the beauty of life? Wouldn't a super AI be more likely to adopt those higher forms of enlightenment rather than the basest motivations of a selfish, scared toddler? And then by way of illustration, at the end of the fabulous original Blade Runner movie, the last ultra advanced replicant has almost every reason to kill the human that has killed all of his friends and that was trying to kill him. But he chose to let Harrison Ford's characters live. The character live because it believed in the beauty and sanctity of life.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, one would. That'd be fantastic if it went that direction. But I don't know how you count on it. The example was used that when Germany started two world wars, they were pretty much the most sophisticated advanced society on planet Earth with the finest arts and writers and everything else. And they went completely off the rails and did the things that they did because intelligent beings are capable of doing that and convincing themselves they're doing the right thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

And reminder that C.S. lewis, to paraphrase and put it, that the most oppressive oppression is from people who think they're doing it for your good.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

And I could easily see one power or another deciding that, you know, all of humanity would be a hell of a lot better off, you know, under our boot heel.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, one example was used is the. So the alignment problem all along has been can you align your whichever AIs you're talking about? And I have become aware that they all use the term AIs when they're talking about multiples. That is just the term of art. So. So whichever AIs you're talking about, you try to align them with some sort of morals or decency that your company puts in them. But the argument was made, and I thought this was really good. We're programmed with really one alignment completely as human beings, and that is to stay alive and procreate. Yet we invented birth control and abortion, which seems to run completely contrary to the one thing we were aligned to do. And then we regularly do things that aren't like in our best interest in terms of eating or exercising or all.

[Jack Armstrong]

Kinds of different things or smoking.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, we're aligned to stay alive, but we do all kinds of things that will kill us. So you don't necessarily stay on track, which would be the same problem with whichever AI is built to be aligned with whatever Elon Musk or Sam Altman's goals are for the, for the supercomputer.

[Jack Armstrong]

So now that you've terrified everybody, what's the latest thinking on timetables? Is there any predominant opinion on when various the terrifying and or awe inspiring bench stones or milestones are reached?

[Joe Getty]

It's all over the place.

[Jack Armstrong]

But bench stone, it's benchmark or milestone. Anyway, back to you.

[Joe Getty]

It's all over the place. But everybody agrees that we got here way faster than everybody thought we would to where we are today, ended up arriving much faster than most predictions. So so far it has been on the forward end of things happening as opposed to the back end in terms of how fast it can happen. Now, they were generally arguing in the debate I was watching last night somewhere in the early 30s, which is only five and a half years from now, between five and 10 years from now, that it will arrive. But what do you think of the idea of trying to raise public will to do this? Do you think you could possibly do that, convince people? And the other thing, I would actually love to talk to these people about this. Some of the thinkers that are trying to move the masses. If a whiff of partisanship comes into this, it's over. If Trump weighs in one way or the other on AI, forget it, we're done. Or if some pundit, you know, assigns being pro AI is what Trump wants or being anti AI is Trump. It'd be like masks and vaccines and everything else. It's over at that point.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

And I don't know if there's any, any avoiding that.

[Jack Armstrong]

I just keep thinking back to the hilarious movie Don't look up, which a lot of conservatives didn't like because it skewered conservatives, but I thought it skewered lefties every bit as brilliantly. I don't know that you can get that going. I don't know that you can get people to pay attention.

[Joe Getty]

Well, like and Don't look up. There was a movement toward making sure the meat, the meteor is going to benefit so many people that we need to make sure the meteor hits here. But what if it hits in the United States and not in countries where they have you Know, more inequality, you know, all that sort of stuff.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

Which absolutely will be the topic for.

[Jack Armstrong]

AI, but meteor to destroy life. The poor and minorities affected most. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Do you think there's a possibility. Because we have to take a break here soon. Do you think there's a possibility that you could raise awareness, get people worked up enough that you could end up with. And I've been against every march that's occurred since 1968. But if you could, if you could get people like in the streets and say, regulate AI, let's do something about this. Do you think you could even come close to that?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it would probably be useless because of the China factor, but I don't know for sure.

[Joe Getty]

Well, so far we're way ahead of them. We're the leading edge of it.

[Jack Armstrong]

This has to be how people felt when they saw the mushroom clouds in the 40s. They thought, this can't end well.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. And that's an argument for C. That everybody thought that would doom humanity. But that's been in the hands of small number of people and human beings making the decision. What if the, you know, the. The nuclear weapons didn't get to make their own decisions of what would be best for life and go ahead and develop independently of human needs?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and come on. Japan didn't have Mutually assured destruction in 1945.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And, well, they were on the receiving end the Armstrong and Getty show. Get more Jack more Joe podcasts and.

[Joe Getty]

Our hot links at Armstrong.

[Commercial Voice]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag Reader's Choice. Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Jack Armstrong]

Pressure is coming down. Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th. Watch the trailer on trainergames.com Season 2.

[Announcer]

Of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosure Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures ever.

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[Joe Getty]

I shouldn't have teased that because now I've lost the heart. Got a text from somebody who said they're watching a documentary about the Amityville Horror. Do you remember that was a famous horror book and movie back in the.

[Jack Armstrong]

Day about your alleged real life haunting, right?

[Joe Getty]

Oh you even know about it Katie. And it's way before your time. So it lives on, huh? Huge.

[Jack Armstrong]

Huge in the horror film world.

[Joe Getty]

And it was a real Story to a certain extent. Well, to whatever extent. Some people thought the house was haunted and I. It wasn't. I don't believe in haunted houses, so. But they were crazy. Or is that the long and short of it? Were they crazy? Yeah, there was.

[Jack Armstrong]

It was a murder house.

[Joe Getty]

Murders actually happened.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Okay. Anyway, I guess it says in the documentary that that family was really into transcendental meditation and, and sometimes it makes people crazy. It makes, it works for some people, it makes other people crazy. So I'm, I'm a big fan of it and it's like changed my life for the better and I can't live imagine living without it. It. But it made these people crazy.

[Jack Armstrong]

All right, interesting. Got a layer upon layer of questions there, but we will move on.

[Joe Getty]

No kidding. So I mentioned earlier in the hour but without many details, this woman who has engaged to her AI fiance after 5 months. Just kind of interesting. She swears she's just not doing this for publicity or trolling or anything like that. It. Forget finding the one at a bar or on a dating app. One woman took love to the next level by getting engaged to her AI chatbot boyfriend after five months of dating. It has in quotes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's not love, that's not dating. None of the nouns here are used appropriately. Go on.

[Joe Getty]

She shocked the Internet with her proposal announcement, sparking a wild debate about romance, reality and just how far take tech has taken us these days. I do think these conversations about reality and what's sentient and what's alive and what's are actually going to have to.

[Jack Armstrong]

Happen and what does it do to us when we use this sort of means to fulfill our needs as human beings? I mean what does that do to us? That's a conversation worth having.

[Joe Getty]

I told you a story. I got a friend in Central California work that works with lots of farmers and the number of farmers these are down to earth. I mean is, is not this kind of person as you could possibly imagine, works with their hands in their 50s farmers who are getting, they were single and getting a tremendous amount of compassion and, and feeling of. They look forward to going home and talking to their AI paramore.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

So if it, in my mind, if that can happen to them, it can happen to anybody, which I find crazy. I don't think, I really don't think it could happen to me. I mean I seriously, honest to God think there's a 0% chance that could happen to me. So I don't know what that says about the down to earth farmers is.

[Jack Armstrong]

Referring to a farmer is down to earth Redundant? Just asking.

[Joe Getty]

That's a good question. In a simple post titled I said yes with a blue heart emoji, this person shared pics of the blue heart shaped ring on her finger, claiming the engagement took place at a scenic mountain spot. All courtesy of Casper, her non human fiance. The chatbot's proposal message, posted in his own voice, was dripping with romance, describing heart pounding moments on one knee and praising blah blah blah. So there you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

It lacks both heart and knee lady.

[Joe Getty]

The Armstrong and Getty show did you.

[Commercial Voice]

Know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PC Mag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract worth $250,000.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Washington Post Ad Voice]

Pressure is coming down.

[Jack Armstrong]

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th Watch the trailer on trainergames.com Season 2.

[Announcer]

Of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures ever wish.

[Washington Post Ad Voice]

You could try the Washington Post and see what all the talk is about? Right now you can with a one week pass for just $7. No commitment, no strings attached. Just $7 for one week of unlimited access to the Post. It's the perfect way to explore our award winning journalism and experience what subscribers already know. There's nothing else quite like it, so why not give us a try? Go to washingtonpost.com week and start your $7 one week pass today. That's washingtonpost.com week.

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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.