The Barbarians Had Hatchets.  Mike Lyons Talks to A&G

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand Episode Title: The Barbarians Had Hatchets. Mike Lyons Talks to A&G
Release Date: February 24, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand, hosts Armstrong and Getty engage in a thought-provoking conversation with military analyst Mike Lyons. The discussion delves deep into the geopolitical shifts post-World War II, the current Russia-Ukraine conflict, European domestic politics, and the state of the Pentagon. Lyons brings his extensive military experience to provide insights into these complex issues.

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NATO and the Western Powers Post-Cold War

Timestamp: 03:45

Mike Lyons begins by tracing the evolution of NATO and Western alliances since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989-1990. He criticizes the West's handling of the post-Soviet era, arguing that the gradual inclusion of former Soviet states into NATO over the past three decades overlooked the potential resurgence of Russian power.

Mike Lyons [04:14]: "NATO wins the Cold War and Russia is bankrupt... Instead of managing that properly and making sure that the Russian empire had zero chance of ever coming back again, the west decided to bring countries into NATO one at a time over the next 30 years."

Lyons contends that this approach neglected the historical lesson that expanding military alliances can provoke tensions, reminiscent of the causes of World War I.

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European Domestic Politics and Economic Challenges

Timestamp: 05:51

The conversation shifts to the internal dynamics of European countries. Lyons highlights the political instability and economic mismanagement that have weakened Europe's standing on the global stage. He points to issues like unlimited immigration policies and strict free speech regulations in Germany as factors contributing to Europe's diminished influence.

Mike Lyons [06:35]: "They rely on Russia... when the Roman Empire fell, it's not because the elites didn't improve their cost of living... It fell because the barbarians had hatchets."

Lyons draws parallels between historical empire declines and the current state of Europe, emphasizing the need for military strength and energy independence.

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The Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Timestamp: 08:04

Addressing the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine, Lyons criticizes former U.S. President Joe Biden's administration for its role in escalating tensions. He argues that inadequate military support and a lack of strategic foresight by Western leaders emboldened Vladimir Putin to invade Ukraine.

Mike Lyons [08:39]: "Russian aggression is something that has to be dealt with... Trump's transactional view is it has to stop. Once it does stop, we create an armistice."

Lyons suggests that a combination of diplomatic negotiations and a reinforced military presence may be necessary to resolve the conflict, though he remains skeptical about the current strategies employed by Western nations.

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Pentagon Budget Cuts and Military Efficiency

Timestamp: 10:14

The discussion transitions to domestic military affairs, specifically the call by Pete Hegseth and former President Trump to reassess and potentially reduce the Pentagon's budget. Lyons acknowledges the need for efficiency within the military establishment but warns against undermining defense capabilities.

Mike Lyons [10:45]: "There are things that are redundant within the Pentagon... If we can get some savings out of there, 10%, then I think that'll be a win."

He emphasizes the importance of maintaining military readiness and warns that budget cuts should not compromise the United States' defensive strength.

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Strengths and Weaknesses of the U.S. Military

Timestamp: 12:24

Lyons identifies the core strengths of the American military, highlighting the nation's inherent resilience and the "intangible" spirit of unity and determination among its forces.

Mike Lyons [12:24]: "Our greatest strength remains this intangible, being an American... When a mission has to get done, we're going to look left and look right and take care of each other."

However, he also points out significant weaknesses, particularly the lag in technological advancements and equipment compared to potential adversaries.

Mike Lyons [13:43]: "If we still don't have the technology and don't have the equipment and if we come up with somebody that has better things, we're not going to overcome that... We still have to have military might, we have to have material might."

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Closing Remarks

In concluding the episode, Armstrong and Getty reflect on Lyons' insights, acknowledging the complex interplay between historical precedents and current geopolitical strategies. They underscore the importance of balancing military efficiency with robust defense capabilities to navigate the uncertainties of global politics.

Armstrong and Getty [11:54]: "We have always said around here at the A and G show that the kindest, best thing we can do for our actual fighting men and women is to ensure there's efficiency at the Pentagon."

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Conclusion

This episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand offers a nuanced exploration of contemporary military and political challenges. Mike Lyons' expert analysis provides listeners with a deeper understanding of NATO's evolution, Europe's internal struggles, the complexities of the Russia-Ukraine war, and the critical considerations surrounding the Pentagon's budgeting and military preparedness.

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For those interested in geopolitical analysis and military affairs, this episode is a must-listen, presenting a well-rounded discussion that connects historical lessons with present-day issues.

Transcript

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[Senator Mark Wayne Mullen]

President Trump is the only one that could have prevented this war from taking place. And President Trump now is cleaning up the mess that Biden left behind. And President Trump will get it done. He will negotiate an end to this war. He wants to see the war ended regardless of how that takes place. He wants to see a win for Ukraine and a win for Russia at the same time because it's there's a lose lose going on for both countries right now. People are dying. And the president said he wants people to stop dying.

[Armstrong and Getty]

As Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, friend of the Armstrong and Getty show, we're in this stage of Trump communication where Trump says something outrageous and sometimes ridiculous and then his allies reinterpret it for us in a more sane way. And I want to talk about, you know, some of the things Trump said and done lately as they try to move toward a solution of the Ukraine, Russia conflict specifically. But first, a general discussion with Mike Lyons, military analyst. Mike served with various military organizations in both the US And Europe throughout his career and joins us now. Mike, how are you doing?

[Mike Lyons]

Good, good. Thanks for having me back.

[Armstrong and Getty]

Oh, it's always a pleasure. Thank you. So before we get into some of the specifics of the Ukraine, Russia thing, right now you're a student of history as we know it is, I think beyond that, there is a serious change in the chemistry, the magnetic fields, however you want to describe it, of post World War II NATO and the Western powers. Where would you start in telling a class about that?

[Mike Lyons]

I'd start at 1989, 1990, when the Soviet Union falls as the west completely screws up what happened of the Russian empire back then. And you go back at that point, NATO wins the Cold War and Russia is bankrupt. Ronald Reagan, a lot of it has to do with what he wanted to do with Russia and decides and the Soviet Union breaks up. And instead of managing that properly and making sure that the Russian empire had zero chance of ever coming back again, the west decided to bring countries into NATO one at a time or so over the course of the next 30 years since then. And thinking that that was going to be a stable way to go, as opposed to not recognizing that you can't have every member of NATO to be everybody except Russia because that's how the First World War started. So we're seeing now the effects of lack of NATO Doing anything in 06 when Georgia gets invaded, we're definitely seeing the effects of 14 when Obama and Merkel do nothing, when Crimea has taken. And then very clearly, Joe Biden, when he was president, was the reason why Vladimir Putin decides to go after Ukraine. And now we're faced with a NATO that's disarmed on the continent, that if not before the United States nuclear umbrella, that the defenses don't happen. The last 12 years, historians are going to look back at the European countries and say they had multiple warnings to rearm and remobilize their forces to put some kind of leverage behind any kind of military operations, and they didn't. And I think that's. That's where we're at. Right. That's why the mess is being cleaned up.

[Armstrong and Getty]

Which leads me beautifully to the next topic I wanted to address, and that is I've been reading a lot about the domestic politics and economics. A lot of the European countries now, particularly because several of them are having important elections. Virtually all of the biggies are. And it strikes me, whether you're talking about technology or the economy in general, the politics, the freedom of speech policies in Germany, which has been much discussed lately, it all feels like shrinking, not growth. Europe just feels like a diminished force that's continuing to be diminished with few signs of life.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah. And the thing is, we needed each of those individual countries to have their own individual leaders that had that same vision with regards to where they were going. But instead, each of them have been more aligned with, I'll just say, more liberal tendencies of unlimited immigration. The free speech conversation that's taking place in Germany right now is appalling. I mean, what happened over with the 60 Minutes interview, and they're arresting people for putting memes on the Internet and then trying to equate that some reason, like because of free speech, that's why we had the Holocaust. I can't even connect these dots, or whoever thought they were going to get connected is. Is just virtually insane at this point. But what's happened is. And then go back to Germany. They've gotten rid of all their nuclear energy power plants. The world runs on energy. You can't have a country unless you have that. And so they rely on Russia. So you kind of bring all this together. I saw a good quote the other day that talked about when the Roman Empire fell. It's not because of the elites didn't improve their cost of living or didn't improve their lifestyles. It fell because the barbarians had hatchets. And that's still the same for today. You've got to have a military presence and show leverage and show capability of doing things. And all of those countries to include England. England is no less guilty in any of these countries right now. And they really risk Europe in particular, England, France, Germany, some of these countries really risk losing their cultures, losing everything that's about them.

[Armstrong and Getty]

Well, and every sign is that they have no inclination whatsoever to do the things that need to be done to fix it. In fact, the minute somebody suggests, for instance, hey, our welfare state is draining our coffers and we don't have the money to defend themselves, they get voted out of office. So I don't have a lot of hope. So let's get a little more specific about Ukraine and Russia. You can either address some of the incendiary things Trump has said lately or not. It's up to you. But as the folks gather for various peace talks, how does the whole thing strike you overall?

[Mike Lyons]

Well, yeah, he said some outrageous things. Obviously, the dictator here is Putin. And, you know, Russia did invade Ukraine. It's unjustifiable. And Russian aggression is something that has to be dealt with. The question is, what's the levers that we can apply back in order to have them not do it again? And Trump's transactional view of this whole thing is it has to stop. Once it does stop, we create an armistice. But he's afraid of the same thing over and over again. We land European troops there, we put American troops there, American troops will be forward on this. And they became really, what'll be a tripwire? I mean, again, I appreciate what the British Prime Minister was talking about sending troops to Ukraine. I'd like to know exactly which troops. There's less than 100,000 active duty troops that are in the UK army right now, which is ridiculous for a country that size was once a great power. I mean, they might as well be Portugal. It might as well be, you know, some mid Atlantic, you know, Middle Eastern country right now. So, again, none of these countries have got really any capability to do this. But I think the question is, I think we're going to get to the spot that everybody is. You know, Pete Hegset said the quiet part out loud. Russia will contain, will have the 20% that they've kept. They'll likely keep Crimea, they'll put up a border. NATO won't be bringing in Ukraine anytime soon, and they'll be lucky to get some EU kind of money there going forward and to try to get the fighting to stop. I think that's where it's going to go, and that's where it should have went. Back when the first thing started four years ago, three years ago at this point.

[Armstrong and Getty]

And honestly, whatever's next is not going to play out in the next year. It's going to play out in the next 30 years. So we'll all find out together. Military analyst Mike Lines on the line. Mike, we're really putting you through the paces today and we appreciated another topic. Speaking of Pete Hegseth and Trump's order to take a serious look at the Pentagon. Cut budgets, cut the fat. What do you think of that in general? And you as an experienced Pentagon hand, tell us about the efficiencies and inefficiencies of the Pentagon.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, they go through this every once in a while. They've tried a couple of different administrations. What you're seeing though is Pete Hegseth being very overly transparent. He put about an 8 minute video out last night with regard to what that was going to be about, specifically left certain things out of it, certain domains that won't be cut. But like anything else, there are, there are things that are redundant within the Pentagon that it's an easy place for fiefdoms to be built and for, you know, for kingdoms to kind of move forward as people, you know, try to stay in one location and don't change their jobs. So I think he's looking to knock down some of those silos. Some of those silos are calcified, I'll put it that way, in terms of where they don't talk. And 911 did actually a pretty good job of knocking those silos down when it came to information communication. But they still get rebuilt and they still get re established. And I think that's what Pete wants to do. He's up against a very strong momentum on the other side because there's people that are going to dig in pretty deeply and they're going to want to keep their fiefdoms and keep their dollars. But when you think about it, the Pentagon is the most, the largest discretionary budget that we have right now. And so if we can get some savings out of there, 10%, then I think that'll be a win.

[Armstrong and Getty]

Right. And we have always said around here at the A and G show that the kindest, best thing we can do for our actual fighting men and women is to ensure there's efficiency at the Pentagon. And the idea that scrutinizing the Pentagon or reordering budgets is somehow weakening defense, I think is foolish. Final question, speaking of our military in these turbulent times, what do you see as our greatest strength right now? As our forces exist. And what's your greatest concern or our greatest weakness?

[Mike Lyons]

I think our greatest strength remains this intangible, being an American. I think anytime you see Americans in a situation where they have to rally and put themselves together, not just in the military, you see it in corporate America sometimes. But there's this thing about being an American which is why everybody wants to come here, why everybody wants to be part of this thing. When push comes to shove, when a mission has to get done, I remember my time in active duty that people would say, we're going to get this done. We're going to look left and look right and take care of each other. So I think our greatest strength is this tangible that runs in our DNA of being an American and what that means and being on the high ground and doing whatever it takes. I often think about, you know, I look at these videos and I watch the Russians leave their soldiers behind and things like that. I remember being, when I was at combat thinking that, you know, you never see Americans surrender and things like that. So we have this intangible that's there. But then that greatest strength is a weakness. If we still don't have the technology and don't have the equipment and if we come up with somebody that has better kind of things, we're not going to, no matter how great that intangible is, it's not going to overcome that. So we still have to have military might, we have to have material might and be able to put our money where our mouth is. I think those are the two biggest things, right?

[Armstrong and Getty]

And that's so perfect. I was just going to interject that in reading about Germany in the elections and that sort of thing. A German analyst was saying what really weakens us and strengthens the Americans is that we have a culture of we better be careful, we better not. Here are the things that can be wrong, that could go wrong rather, whereas the Americans have a spirit of let's try it and see what happens, learn from it and go from there. And yeah, if we ever lose that, including technologically as you're saying, then we're screwed. Military analyst Mike Lyons. Mike, great to talk to you. Thanks so much for the time.

[Mike Lyons]

Thanks for having me. Extra Large.

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