The Language of Leverage

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand — "The Language of Leverage"

Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Special Guests: Gordon Chang, Mike Lyons
Podcast Theme: U.S.-China Relations, Taiwan, Leverage in Diplomacy, and Global Hotspots

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the intensifying diplomatic standoff between the U.S. and China, with a focus on President Xi Jinping’s assertive push regarding Taiwan during a high-profile summit with President Trump. Armstrong & Getty analyze the implications for American policy, credibility, and global stability, bringing in China expert Gordon Chang and military analyst Mike Lyons for deeper insight. The conversation expands to U.S. military strategy, tech rivalry with China, AI's role in modern warfare, and tensions in the Middle East with Iran.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Xi Jinping’s Taiwan Obsession

• Xi's Position: President Xi expresses unwavering commitment to “reunification” with Taiwan, escalating rhetoric in talks with Trump.
  • "Xi wants reunification. He has said this time and time again. He’s claimed that it is unstoppable." — Gordon Chang (04:15)
• Diplomatic Threat: Xi explicitly warns Trump that mishandling Taiwan could result in conflict.
  • "If handled poorly, it could lead to conflict and an extremely dangerous situation." — Jack Armstrong summarizing Xi (04:38)
• White House Stance: Despite private assurances of no policy shift, the White House’s official response is vague, omitting the Taiwan issue from early readouts.

2. Why Taiwan Matters (Semiconductors & Credibility)

• Strategic & Economic Stakes:
  • "Taiwan makes 92% of the world’s most sophisticated semiconductors… Forget about a future with involving microchips." — Gordon Chang (09:12)
• Geopolitical Credibility: Taiwan is seen as a test of U.S. resolve in the wake of the Afghanistan withdrawal.
• Defense Perimeter: Loss of Taiwan would undermine U.S. strategic leverage and embolden authoritarian regimes.
  • "Taiwan has become the test of American credibility and resolve around the world." — Gordon Chang (09:12)
  • "We would not be a world power if we allowed China to take Taiwan... It would just be shameful." — Gordon Chang (09:12)

3. Summit Takeaways: Strait of Hormuz and Iran

• Positive Notes: Both U.S. and China publicly agree to keep the Strait of Hormuz open and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.
  • "It’s good that President Xi said that… Also made clear China’s opposition to the militarization of the strait…" — Jack Armstrong (05:12)
• Skepticism Remains: Chang points out China’s historic role in Iran’s nuclear advances.
  • "Iran has a nuclear weapons program because the Chinese transplanted theirs on Iranian soil." — Gordon Chang (11:20)

4. Historical Parallels & Propaganda

• Western Defense Lines: U.S. policy ambiguity resembles Cold War missteps (e.g., 1950 Dean Acheson’s omission of South Korea).
• Mao’s Legacy: The show presses on global discomfort with China’s continued idolization of Mao Zedong.
  • "Mao is responsible for more deaths than any other figure in history—more than Hitler, more than Stalin, more than Genghis Khan." — Gordon Chang (12:48)
  • "We can have Elon Musk and all these people in Trump… We’re all smiling, holding hands, and the kids are dancing around, and the most evil person in world history looking down on it." — Jack Armstrong (13:42)

5. The Language of Leverage (Title Segment)

• Diplomatic Posturing:
  • "I think President Xi is trying to understand Donald Trump’s language of leverage." — Mike Lyons (31:02)
  • Xi’s Taiwan push is described as a calculated bid for bargaining power in the broader U.S.-China relationship.

6. If China Invaded Taiwan: Military Realities

• U.S. Dilemma:
  • "If they decided to take Taiwan, it would be really hard for us to stop them." — Jack Armstrong (32:03)
  • "It would require U.S. forces firing missiles into mainland China, which would then… start this war." — Mike Lyons (32:20)
• Porcupine Strategy: U.S. arms Taiwan to raise invasion costs, but parallels to Ukraine show deterrence isn’t guaranteed.

7. AI & Military Escalation

• Analogy to Nuclear Arms:
  • "AI is a potential nuclear weapon that can destroy the Earth if we let it involve with targeting and if we let it make decisions." — Mike Lyons (34:07)
• Call for AI Arms Control: Advocates an international framework akin to the SALT treaties to limit military uses of AI, drawing distinction between defensive and offensive AI.
  • "It's one thing for the defense… But doing it in the offense is really where the red line has to be drawn." — Mike Lyons (35:48)

8. The Iran Stalemate

• Skepticism on Iranian Capabilities: Lyons doubts reports on Iran's continuing rocket arsenal and urges a firmer military response.
  • "I don’t believe any of that at all… They just can’t scale it on any level anymore." — Mike Lyons (37:07)
• Regional Flashpoints: Ongoing risks in the Middle East, Taiwan Strait, and the broader U.S.-China contest.

9. On Propaganda, Nonprofits, and Social Commentary

• Media Blind Spots: Frustration over U.S. media not highlighting China’s human rights legacy.
• Nonprofit Critique: Segment calling out bloated salaries and inefficiencies at certain high-profile nonprofits.
  • "When I hear nonprofit, my first thought is, okay, here we go… prove to me you’re actually a nonprofit and not a fraud scam." — Jack Armstrong (47:01)
• Controversial Reporting: Criticism of a New York Times columnist for running unsubstantiated, sensational claims about the Israel Defense Forces.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Xi’s Taiwan Stance:
  "He’s claimed that [reunification] is unstoppable." — Gordon Chang (04:17)
• Dangers of Ambiguity:
  "We also don’t know where we are as Americans… We don’t even know our own mind." — Gordon Chang (08:28)
• Importance of Taiwan:
  "The propaganda would be malicious that the United States was no longer a world power." — Gordon Chang (09:12)
• Xi’s Leverage:
  "President Xi is just trying to pivot that way… as this rising power." — Mike Lyons (31:02)
• AI Escalation:
  "You could have mutually automated destruction, where once it starts, both sides would be completely destroyed just based on automation alone." — Mike Lyons (34:07)

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Important Timestamps

• [04:15] — Gordon Chang outlines Xi Jinping’s fixation on Taiwan
• [06:25] — Was Xi’s Taiwan statement a direct threat?
• [09:12] — Chang explains why Taiwan is a linchpin for U.S. power and the global semiconductor supply
• [10:31] — Trump’s diplomatic initiative with Indonesia & defense relevance
• [12:48] — Mao Zedong’s legacy and Western leaders’ silence
• [31:02] — Mike Lyons: “Language of leverage” and Xi/Trump strategies
• [32:20] — Discussion of possible U.S. military action to defend Taiwan
• [34:07] — The urgent need for AI arms control treaties
• [37:07] — Lyons dismisses reports of massive Iranian rocket caches
• [39:02] — Mapping out other potential global flashpoints

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Tone & Flow

The episode is marked by straightforward, unfiltered dialogue with a skeptical and somewhat urgent undercurrent. The hosts balance humor and gravity, especially when discussing the weirdness of global realpolitik and the sometimes surreal optics of U.S.-China diplomacy. Frequent asides address domestic controversies, from university admissions to local governance and nonprofit accountability, demonstrating the show’s blend of headline analysis and cultural critique.

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Conclusion

“The Language of Leverage” presents a dynamic, multifaceted look at the crossroads of U.S. power, Chinese ambitions, and the shifting rules of global engagement. By bringing in expert voices and questioning official narratives, Armstrong & Getty provide listeners a rich briefing on the high-stakes chess game unfolding between Beijing, Washington, and the world.

Transcript

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[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center,

[Mike Lyons]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Gordon Chang]

Xi wants reunification.

[Jack Armstrong]

He has said this time and time again.

[Gordon Chang]

He's claimed that it is unstoppable.

[Jack Armstrong]

And look, this has been the position since the inception of the Chinese Communist Party. But it has become an obsession under Xi.

[Gordon Chang]

He wants the US to stop selling

[Jack Armstrong]

arms, to change its posture and to

[Gordon Chang]

reduce its support of Taiwan.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So the scary news so far in the big summit between Trump and President Xi, Xi, the leader of the two biggest economies in the world, the two leaders meeting, is that man Xi went there right away on Taiwan. And as you just heard in that report there from CBS News, it has become an obsession of his that Taiwan, the independent country off the coast of China, become part of China. President Xi believes it is part of China and should become a full on part of China. Our position is currently and no, no you ain't. But President Xi said to Trump yesterday, if handled poorly, it could lead to conflict and an extremely dangerous situation. I've seen no reporting on how Trump replied to that. Basically a threat from President Xi about don't get in our way if we decide to take Taiwan. So we got that On a little more the optimistic side, this is just out from the White House. The two sides agreed that the Strait of Hormuz in Iran must remain open to support the free flow of energy. That's good that President Xi said that also made clear that China's opposition to the militarization of the strait was. Or any effort to charge a toll or anything like that. And both countries agreed Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. And I hope President Xi means those things. Sometimes he doesn't. Joining us now to discuss all of this, Gordon Chang, who we've had on the show many times over the years, author and columnist, written a whole bunch of different great books that we've talked to him about. He's a columnist at the Daily Beast. You can follow him on Twitter at. Gordon G. Chang. Mr. Chang, welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Appreciate you being here.

[Gordon Chang]

Oh, well, thank you so much, Jack.

[Jack Armstrong]

So was that a threat from President Xi on the whole Taiwan thing?

[Gordon Chang]

Sure it was. And President Trump has responded. We've been told by a White House official, speaking off the record, that there'll be no change in US Policy, which is good. Now, I'd like President Trump to publicly say, look, we're not changing our policy. And actually, I'd like him to say we're defending Taiwan, because I think at some point we're going to need to do that. But Xi Jinping has just been huffing and puffing, and I think President Trump knows it, and he's just not feeling. And Trump is feeling, well, there's no point in actually opposing him publicly, but the US Will not change its position.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's damned interesting. I mean, because the readout after their first talks, the Communist Party's readout, was basically Xi's threat to Trump with no indication of how Trump responded. The White House initial White House readout didn't mention the Taiwan thing at all. It just talked about, you know, business relations. So that's interesting that you have an update on that.

[Gordon Chang]

Yeah, it's. And you can, you know, a lot of people, and there's a whole industry of people who will blame Trump for things he has not done. And this is one of them, where people are really worried that Trump will sell out Taiwan. Now, he hasn't done it yet, and I don't think he'll do it. And if he does it, we'll criticize him then for it. But until he does it, people should just sort of calm down a little bit. And I think it's important for us to give the president some credit here.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I don't. Yeah, I don't know what Trump's true thoughts on this, but I don't know that Kamala Harris would have defended Taiwan if she were president or Joe Biden or Barack Obama. I mean, so. So it's always been kind of an open question, would we actually go to war with China to defend Taiwan if it came down to it? So I don't know where we are.

[Gordon Chang]

Yeah. And we also don't know where we are as Americans because we have to go back to 1950, where Dean Acheson, who was Secretary of State at the time, publicly drew America's western defense perimeter that did not include South Korea. So that encouraged Kim Il Sung of North Korea to invade the South. And what did Truman do? President Truman immediately sent troops to defend South Korea. So we don't even know our own mind.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Gordon Chang]

But I believe that we would defend Taiwan, because if we didn't, it would be catastrophic.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's what I wanted to ask you about. Explain to people why that would be a big deal if China was able to make Taiwan part of China in the same way that they did Hong Kong.

[Gordon Chang]

Okay. First of all, Taiwan makes 92% of the world's most sophisticated semiconductors. So forget about a future with involving microchips. But also, after the catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan, Taiwan has become the test of American credibility and resolve around the world. China, which has been attacking democracies, we cannot allow them to absorb any democracy, especially one as important as Taiwan, because the propaganda would be malicious that the United States was no longer a world power. And Also, since the 1800s, we Americans have drawn our western defense perimeter off the coast of East Asia. Taiwan sits in the center of that critical line. It protects our allies, Philippines and Japan. We would not be a world power if we allowed China to take Taiwan. And this would be just shameful. Forget about the strategic implications. It would just be shameful if we allowed that to happen.

[Jack Armstrong]

I agree with all that. And we're all seeing what the Strait of Hormuz has done to the world economy. And China controlling all the shipping lanes in that part of the world would make that look like nothing.

[Gordon Chang]

Yes, and President Trump deserves a lot of credit because just on April 13, the Pentagon announced a defense pact with Indonesia. The Indonesian island of Sumatra is the southern end of the Strait of Malacca, which is far more important than the Strait of Hormuz to world commerce. So Trump is thinking about these things in a very determined way. So here again, give him credit.

[Jack Armstrong]

So this is new from the White House. As I mentioned a little bit ago, wondered what your take on this isn't, and this is good news, that President Xi agreed that the Strait of Hormuz. That's the strait with the war in Iran, we've been following must remain open. They don't get to charge tolls, all that sort of stuff. And he agreed. Iran can never have a nuke. That's all good news, right?

[Gordon Chang]

Well, mostly. And the reason is we need to keep the Strait of Hormuz closed until the Iranians actually give up their nuclear program and their ballistic missiles. And this puts a lot of pressure on China, which we need, not only for Iran, but for other things. And, you know, it's up to us. This is a fault not just of Trump, but of all his predecessors, going back to Clinton, actually, even before that. Iran has a nuclear weapons program because the Chinese transplanted theirs on Iranian soil. They did that by direct transfers of equipment, material and technology, but they also did it indirectly through the AQCON black market network of Pakistan. So, you know, a lot of people blame Trump for this war. Trump knows this. He needs to say it in public that there's a war because China made this war virtually inevitable.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's really interesting. I was struck yesterday watching the leaders meet and all the kids dance around and everything like that, under the watchful eye of a giant portrait of Chairman Mao that this there in the square. I can't believe that's not more remarked upon about the fact that you have this enormous poster painting, whatever it is, of Chairman Mao, the guy responsible for more deaths than maybe anyone in human history.

[Gordon Chang]

No, you're right about that. Mao is responsible for more deaths than any other figure in history. More than Hitler, more than Stalin, more than Genghis Khan. It's just Mao's death toll is enormous. We don't know exactly what it was, but from a number of events, especially the famine following the Great Leap Forward at the end of the 1950s and the beginning of the 1960s was horrific. Mao should have known or knew what was happening, but allowed the famine to continue. And this is something that the United States needs to talk about. You know, the Communist Party maliciously hits us every day with propaganda, except for the two weeks around a visit of an American leader to China or vice versa. But apart from that, you get malicious propaganda every day. And the United States needs to hit back.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I would like some sort of statement about that. There's the cognitive dissonance thing going on in my brain that we can have Elon Musk and all these people in Trump. Nevermind. We're all smiling, holding hands, and the kids are dancing around and you got the most evil person in world history looking down on it. Seems like somebody ought to throw out by the way that system is currently in place, and that's evil. But I guess nobody wants to upset the apple cart, right?

[Gordon Chang]

And that system has declared the United States to be its enemy. And we need to say that we ignored Osama bin Laden, we're ignoring the Chinese, both believe that they must destroy the United States. Fortunately, we killed Osama bin Laden, but China is still in a position to do that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Gordon Chang, thanks for joining us today on short notice. I know you're super busy. Everybody wants to hear from you. Find him on Twitter at least. Ordon G. Chang or writing his column for the Daily Beast. Thanks for your time today. Really appreciate it.

[Gordon Chang]

Oh, well, thank you, Jack.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I got another comment about that. But first I want to tell you about rough greens for your dog. Maybe I'll ask Katie, Katie, Katie, the news lady who's gonna call in a little later in the show with a special announcement. And she's got a cute little dog how her dog is liking the rough greens, which is something you sprinkle on top of your current dog's food to give your dog the very best life possible. Dog food is dead. Food has no live nutrition. Rough greens has live stuff in it, live probiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and over 20 vitamins and minerals. It's America's number one dog supplement, all natural, made in the United States. And you can try it for nothing. Just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com you can get a free Jump Start trial bag today. You just cover the shipping. Use the discount code Armstrong. That's ruffgreens.com discount code Armstrong rough greens.com discount code Armstrong. Make any dog food better with rough greens? Yeah, I we've never had so we could call out the Soviet Union for being bad, although we didn't always. When when Reagan back in the 80s said, you know, called the Soviet Union an evil empire, a lot of people, oh, you can't say that that's provocative or whatever. So we didn't even very often with the Soviet Union point out loud how awful they were and we weren't nearly as economically intertwined or dependent. I looked this up before the show today because I'm that sort of statistic geek. The Soviet Union had about a third of our economic power. We were the number one economy throughout the Cold War. They were had about a third of our economic power. China is about 75% of our economic power. And in some ways of measuring, they're equal to us. So it's a completely different ball game. So I guess that's why business leaders, including our president, aren't going to call them an evil empire. But when you got Chairman Mao staring down over everybody as the leading killer of humans in human history, that is really weird that nobody says anything out loud about that. I mean, why doesn't the CBS Evening News say that? By the way, there's, as you can see in the background, there's Chairman Mao responsible for the deaths of 30 to 50 million people. Why does nobody say that out loud? Isn't that weird? I've assumed that if you were in Munich and you had a giant Hitler poster, somebody would say something. I don't know. You got any thoughts that? Text line 415295 KFTC ARMSTRONG and GETTY I used to worry like crazy what would happen to my wife and kids if I wasn't there. It was such an enormous relief when I was properly insured and I knew that they would be okay if the worst happened. I want you to have that feeling too. Yeah, get peace of mind fast. Here you can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes and get same day coverage. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy and it's a hundred percent online. There's no medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions and you can get up to 3 million bucks in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. By the way, Ethos has a 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 4, 000 reviews. So you can trust them and you will get the best rate from their network of trusted carriers. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free', @ethos.com Armstrong that is E T H O S.com Armstrong Application times may vary, rates may vary. Ethos.com Armstrong Support for the show comes

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[Jack Armstrong]

oh, and people

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are talking about this.

[Jack Armstrong]

The President just started his latest renovation project. Painting the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting pool American

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Flag blue, doing the Rose Garden, remodeled

[Jack Armstrong]

the ballroom and a new pool. I'm pretty sure Trump's trying to flip the White House. That's a funny joke. It's a pretty funny joke. I don't remember. I was just in D.C. last summer with the kids. Was what color was the reflecting pool? I think it was just kind of cement colored on the bottom. Anyway, kind of a cool idea. What's your second favorite joke, Michael? What's the second funniest joke you got? We got a bunch of jokes. The Democrat mayor of an LA suburb admitted to being a Chinese agent and already Eric Swalwell is trying to roof. I like that joke. Uh, this just came across. I don't have much time. Maybe we'll get into details on it later. UCLA Medical School accused of racial discrimination in defiance of the Supreme Court. Supreme Court made a ruling a couple years ago. You can't choose people based on race. That's racism. That's racism. Well, UCLA Medical School, one of the most prestigious schools to learn how to be a doctor in the whole country, apparently is still Doing that and the Department of Justice is going after him. Look at this example. And they've got the data to back it up. And the DOJ's findings. Black and Hispanic students were admitted into medical school some years with their MCAT scores. The MCAT is the test you take to get into medical. You take the LSAT to get into lawyer school. You take the MCAT to get into medical school. I took the can you fog the mirror test to get into the colleges I went into. But anyway, they admitted black and Hispanic students, sometimes with scores in the 66th to 72nd percentile, while not letting in Asian and white students who had scores over 80%. So you're saying, sorry, Asian kid that's got a, you're in the 90th percentile, you can't graduate from UCLA medical school. But yes, you black or Hispanic kid with 66th percentile, that's getting way down there, you can get ignominical school. What kind of freaking crazy theory is that? You're one of the most prestigious medical schools in the world. Don't you want the best candidates regardless? I just, I don't. I can't get in the head of these people. You think you're righting the wrongs of history by sending less good doctors out there with your credentials attached to them. It just seems nuts to me. It's so incredibly unfair and just. It's shooting yourself in the foot in so many different ways. Anyway, that's still going on and I'm sure we'll get more details about that as the Justice Department pursues that. It's just so nuts. I do wanna get into the story of whether or not in California prisons they are giving prisoners iPads paid for by the taxpayer. In fact, they got em new iPads cause they were. These poor prisoners still had iPads from 2018. And you can't have some prisoner in there with a seven year old iPad. That'd be unfair. I have a seven year old iPad. Anywho, we bought him brand new iPads at a cost of like twice what you'd pay at Best Buy. But they have access to porn and all kinds of different stuff. Was the story Gavin Newsom pushing back on that story hard. And then the pushback on the pushback has been pretty hard. So if we have time to jam that in a little bit later, we will. Coming up, we're going to talk to Mike Lyons, our favorite military analyst, about where things are with the war in Iran kind of on the back burner a little as Trump is in China. Trump's not in China long, though. He flies back tomorrow and we'll still be stuck in the same spot we were before, where it looks like to Joe and I the only way to change the status quo is a serious military hit back to bombing. And that's what I want to ask Mike Lyons about. I also want to ask Mike about that report from the New York Times that came out. Iran's got a heck of a lot of rockets and a lot of rocket launchers left. A lot more than we thought. What's the deal with that? So all that stuff we will get to throughout the show and a special announcement from Katie Green. Katie Katie, the news lady in our four that you're going to want to stick around for if you miss it, get the Podcast Armstrong and Getty on

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[Bethenny Frankel]

Are you trying to get weight loss support through telehealth? But it feels overwhelming and rushed. Check out orderlymeds.com now orderlymeds.com was built to be different. Here you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility, and guide you through a plan that's right for you. Orderly Meds provides access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and Tirzepatide, including both name brand options and personalized compound versions when appropriate, so you have choices backed by clinical oversight, not guesswork. It's a simpler, more supportive telehealth experience designed around people who want clarity, care and confidence in their weight loss journey. And your mental health medication is delivered directly to your home in discreet packaging so your experience stays private from start to finish. Do your research, ask the right questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. Again, that's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice. Eligibility required. See Cite for details.

[Martha Stewart]

This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens Countertop prep Paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters. The food, the people and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know, it's Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.

[Jack Armstrong]

So there is a bit of a breaking big news story around Trump's visit to Beijing as President Xi of China has pushed this Taiwan thing more and harder than I think anybody was expecting. Like over and over again. Each time they sit down to meet or like, no matter whatever topic we bring up, she goes back to Taiwan being a really big deal and very important to him and Taiwan belongs to us and over and over again. And I think that's, that's interesting. We're getting more reporting on that. Give you this version from the New York Post before we get to Mike Lyons because I want to ask him about this and a bunch of other stuff. A very different story began to emerge behind closed doors After President Xi continually pressed the issue of Taiwan, the mid morning sit down ran long about 40 minutes over its scheduled time. Trump was notably quieter at the next stop. He ignored shouted questions. The body language of both presidents was noticeably stiffer than it was earlier. As in, there had been some, you know, confrontation and they had reached a point of things being uncomfortable around this issue and their people are putting out very strong language about it. And we're reiterating that Taiwan is a free nation and we support them anyway. It's kind of a surprise in the whole thing. We'd like to welcome to the show Mike Lyons. We love talking to Mike about anything militarily. You can follow him at MA J is in major M A J Mike Lyons on his Twitter feed. He just had an op ed in defense.com about AI and our relationship with China, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But hey, Mike, what do you think about this hardcore push from President Xi about how we're taking Taiwan someday and don't get in our way or there will be a war? That's basically what he said.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, no, I saw that report. That comes from kind of an old Greek model about rising powers and existing powers. And the bottom line is that could ruin everything between the US And China. That seems to be their hard line. I think President Xi is trying to understand Donald Trump language of leverage and I think that's what he's trying to use as leverage. Back to everything that the President wanted and wants to accomplish in the summit. He brought all the CEOs, he's bringing all this, his perceived leverage into the equation. And I think President Xi is just trying to pivot that way. And they see themselves as this rising power. And he recognizes the US As a ruling power. And to frame it the way he has means that potentially war could be inevitable if we decide to involve ourselves with it. We've just sold them billions of dollars, I think 10 or $12 billion worth of military equipment. But Xi is pretty serious about making this whole thing as a very hands off operation.

[Jack Armstrong]

Where's the reality on this? Just as an outside observer, it seems to me that China's way got the upper hand just because of the proximity. If they decided to take Taiwan, it would be really hard for us to stop them.

[Mike Lyons]

It would, it would require US forces firing missiles into mainland China, which would then, you know, start this war. That's the only way you could, you could possibly stop this and, you know, to keep them from taking it. And I think right now our mentality has Been, well, besides strategic ambiguity about it, it's this kind of porcupine effect. Just give Taiwan enough equipment that it would fix the cost of taking it militari really so high. Similar to what we thought would have happened in Ukraine. The cost of it was too high. It didn't stop the Russians there. Again, for China to be a global power, though, in this century, we're all convincing ourselves that China is the rising power and the US Is the falling power. I just don't buy that yet. We're a quarter of the way into the century and China has still yet flexed any kind of military muscle or any kind of military might in that regard. Now, this would be like anything else would be considered an easier military operation to your point, because of proximity. But it could start a very large conflict in the region that frankly, I'm not sure the US would give up potentially a West coast city for if they decide to fire a nuclear weapon at it. Based on what we're doing, man, it

[Jack Armstrong]

is the headlines everywhere that I'm looking that Taiwan emerges as key topic and all that sort of thing where we were kind of hoping to make it a back burner topic, but that is not the way things have turned out. Okay, well, I'm glad I got to ask you all about that. So you've got this [e-mail] about AI and how the next summit between China and the United States should be cooperation over AI. I could talk about AI all day long. I don't know if you've aware of this, but I read all the books, I listen to all the podcasts. I'm fascinated by the topic. What's your take on it from a military standpoint?

[Mike Lyons]

Well, I think I put my Cold War hat on again and look back and say, you know, AI is a potential nuclear weapon that can destroy the Earth if we let it involve with targeting and if we let it make decisions. Think of, you know, the Terminator, and it's not a joke anymore. I mean, we're operating a war right now at scale with AI in terms of our targeting and the closing the kill chain, the time in between we recognize a target and then can engage that target. And we've got to get with China to create somewhat of like another SALT treaty, a Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty. Treat it like it's a nuclear weapon, get them and us to agree to certain red lines about where AI is used and specifically the offense. You know, it's one thing to use AI techniques in the defense as Israel does with its Iron Dome. Iron Dome is fundamentally all AI driven. A rocket's coming at Israel. The computer decides whether or not to engage that rocket or not. It's not a human pulling the trigger. Well, if you had that on the offense, that just creates a whole different set of variables that you, that you might not be able to ever stop. So you can get what's. Instead of having mutually assured destruction, which is a strategic deterrence of nuclear weapons, you could have, you know, mutually automated destruction, where once it starts, both sides would be completely destroyed just based on automation alone. So we've got to sit down with them very quickly and get, get both sides to agree on certain red lines when it comes to the military use of artificial intelligence.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, of course, you know, the wild card is if it goes to artificial general intelligence or super general intelligence, that, you know, there might not be any controlling AI at all by anyone. So that's. Yeah, that's out there as a possibility. I'm glad you're taking it this seriously. I feel like it's that big a deal too, and it just isn't getting enough talk.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, I think, I think a lot of it just has to do with the decisions are being made in corporate America by the AI companies and what they're going to do and what they're not going to do. When it comes to giving our government. I think that the US or Congress has got to get involved. There's a uniform code similar to the way the President conducts covert operations. We need to put a US Code in place that says this is how we're going to use artificial intelligence and this is how the military will use it and codify it in law and then show that to the Chinese similar to what we did the Russians. Get them to agree on doing it in their side with their military. And again, at least we don't have it in the offense. It's one thing for the defense. I think in the defense, artificial intelligence is a game changer in some ways and it protects you. But doing it in the offense is really where the red line has to be drawn.

[Jack Armstrong]

If you're interested in this topic, Mike's got a [e-mail] so we got to talk about Iran. Obviously we're at war with that country and we seem to be stuck. They. They think they can wait us out. We think we can wait them out. And then there is that news story that came out. It was anonymous quotes from our intelligence, but it seemed pretty well sourced that Iran has way more rockets and missiles and rocket launchers left than we were led to believe first of all. Do you believe that?

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, I don't.

[Jack Armstrong]

You don't? Okay, good.

[Mike Lyons]

I hope you're right. I mean again, it's all, it's not even just the rockets themselves. It's all of the systems together and they just can't scale it on any level anymore. It's one thing, you know, to launch a rocket is not just pointing and shooting. At this point you have to have radars, you have to have fire direction. All the different components of it are destroyed. So it's like having empty weapons. If they have them, I'm sure they have 50 to 100 or so. Maybe if the fact that they started with 10,000, they started with a large amount but at scale they just can't deploy them is really what's going on here. So I don't believe any of that at all. I think the wait out period, you know, the President is trying to be as diplomatic as possible and those of us in the military are like, let's go, come on, let's finish this off. I mean every single analyst you see on television right now, that's what they're saying. And I think that would be the most, you know, viable, quickly, quick way to end this thing. But you know, the President wants to stick to diplomacy right now, so that's what we're going to do.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and I think MBS of Saudi Arabia would agree with you and MBZ at the U over there at the UAE would agree with, with you. So do you expect that to happen? That's what I expect to happen.

[Mike Lyons]

I do. I think they can't risk leaving Iran weak but still able to move forward. And that's, you know, it does mean regime change and never seen this historically happen, you know, from the air in that regard. But they're looking for the country to internally collapse economically. But we can't leave them in a situation where in 20 years they're back doing it to, you know, another different population and it's still threatening the Middle East. And this president again is taking care of all family business. I think that he's not finishing. He says it all the time. He says it's more important that we take care of the nuclear aspect here. And so I'm glad to see him do it. It's long overdue.

[Jack Armstrong]

Seems like there's a lot of flashpoints out there right now. Am I wrong?

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, no. In different spots they can still happen in the Pacific, in any of those straits that are there. Venezuela looks like that's going well. You know, Trump's talking about making them a 51st state. I think Cuba will get resolved once Iran does, but I think, again, the major one is in the Middle East. And, you know, there's no proxy force that's been out there for Iran right now. We haven't seen terrorist attacks. Could be the calm before the storm. We'll see. Maybe Trump's trying to get China to intervene. I don't think there's a lot of people that are not happy with Pakistan being the mediators. They're not Trump, they're not independents here. They're on the side of Iran. And I think you saw Lindsey Graham go, go kind of crazy over that at a Senate hearing the other day. Maybe China was gonna get involved. Trump's doing whatever he can, but I think he's very Machiavellian. He's treating China, he's flattering them, he's doing all he can, but he's also brought the hammer. He's not looking to be loved. He still wants to be feared by them.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's Mike Lyons. You can read his AI piece the next summit that Trump should have at defense.com you can follow him at ma jmikelance on Twitter. Thanks for your time today, Mike. Appreciate that.

[Mike Lyons]

Yep, thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Jack Armstrong]

Was it oh, real defense.com sorry is just under lend defense calm clear defense.com real clear defense.com. what is the actual title here, Michael? Okay. Why is it only [e-mail]? okay, it's real Clear, defense calm. Sorry about that. I got another comment about that. But first I got to tell you this about Incogni, which is just really, really a good idea. I hate the fact that every time I have to give somebody my name, address, phone number, whatever, then they have that information and they sell it to somebody. Then everybody has it or sometimes they steal it. And then I get all these texts and emails and sometimes they're people trying to steal from me and blah. I hate the whole thing. You need incog. That's what we do. Incog. They actually go to the data brokers because they know who they are and they use the laws that already exist and force these people to take your information off there. And you're going to notice a drop up in spam texts, emails and calls right away. Protecting you from all this stuff. Real digital threats. They can't scam you if they can't find you. Take your personal data back. With Incogni, that's I n C O G n I. That's how it's spelled get 60 off the regular price when you use the code Armstrong and incogni.com Armstrong that's 60 off when you use the code [e-mail] Armstrong incogni.com Armstrong so I hope Mike Lyons is right. He has a lot of sources himself in the pushback against that big story the New York Times had the other day saying that Iran still retains something like 70% of their rockets and 30 out of 35 I think they said of the rocket launchers right there along the Strait of Hormuz. Mike doesn't believe that. I hope he's right. Would the New York Times go with some analyst that wants to make Trump look bad? Hell yeah they would. So what's actually the truth? I don't know. But but in terms of hoping, I hope Mike's right. Gonna talk to Katie Katie the news lady who's got a major announcement in hour four. I hope you can stick around for that. If you can't get the podcast Armstrong

[Mike Lyons]

and Getty on Demand Armstrong and Getty.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

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[Public Investing Sponsor]

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[Mike Lyons]

Not medical advice.

[Jack Armstrong]

Eligibility required.

[Firestone Tires Sponsor]

See site for details.

[Martha Stewart]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the Mess with new Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep Paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know it's Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens Countertop prep paper. Available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was just reading about this is what I Do during the commercial breaks. I was just reading about Britney Spears bizarre behavior at a restaurant last night in Los Angeles, acting all drunk and crazy. This is like she just got out of rehab and then she's at a restaurant acting a that girl's not gonna she's not gonna have long to live, is she? She gonna make it out of her 40s? Of course I would. Never thought she'd make it out of her 20s. Reading through some of my newss I've got on here on my phone that I haven't had time to get to so far today. They had a debate. Was it a debate or just a statement? Anyway, current mayor of Los Angeles Karen Bass had a little speech about how we taxpayers need to pay for teeth for drug addicts who've rotted. The teeth are out of their heads, she said. How many people who are unhoused that you meet have no teeth at all. They don't have teeth because meth rots your teeth. You can't succeed without teeth. So there needs to be comprehensive health care provided to people. The idea that the meth addicts that have rotted the teeth out of their head by doing math, we taxpayers need to buy them teeth so they can go out and get a job. How they supposed to get a decent job and get off the streets if they don't have teeth? I will admit that that probably makes it more difficult to get a good job if you are toothless. But wasn't my fault, wasn't my problem. You kept, you did, you did meth to the point that you lost your teeth. And now I'm supposed to pay to put your teeth back in your head or fake teeth anyway. Spencer Pratt, the reality star with all the clever ads who might end up being the mayor of Los Angeles, said our city leaders are incompetent. Her response was, I propose free dentures for meth heads. That's not the way she said it, but that's what she was saying. That's hilarious. I hope those days are over. Where people go along with that. Ah, frustrating. I wanted to get to this. Wall Street Apes is a pretty good follow on Twitter if you ever do it. Anyway, breaking down the nonprofit scam, that happens a lot of places. This is a California nonprofit, but it can happen anywhere. And not all nonprofits are scams by any means. I mean, we've raised money for lots of non profits and you can go to the. There's a couple of different websites that, that talk about charities or nonprofits and get into their books because they have to be open and how, you know, if you give them money, how well it's going to be spent and that sort of thing. There's some great, great nonprofits out there, but there are a lot that aren't that are just scams. Here's an example. The non profit San Diego Humane Society, who's against the Humane Society they're trying to help puppies and kittens is sitting on over a hundred million dollars. Their total annual revenue last year, $72.9 million were paid out in salaries and compensation. The CEO makes about a half million dollars a year. Maybe you could make the argument that you need somebody at that of that quality to run the place. I don't know. I'll bet you could find some pretty good retired business people who would do it for nothing. Anyway, the nonprofit gets $10 million from taxpayers every year. So to recap, they take in 73 million, they spend 45 million of the 73 on salaries. And instead of services like spaying, neutering, rescuing and adopting, helping animals, all that sort of stuff, 45 million of the 73 million they take in is on salaries and, and compensation, which can include you. This is, this is what you do at a non profit. You start a nonprofit and you get a salary that is probably way too high. But in addition, I'd like to know the CEO that makes a half million dollars a year. I'll bet that CEO gets a car, which is worth a lot. I'll bet that CEO travels some and gets put and travels for free, maybe even first class. I'll bet that CEO and a whole bunch of other people around him at that Humane Society get. They stay in nice hotels and you gotta eat. Everybody has to eat. So you go out to a nice restaurant and why wouldn't the Humane Society pay for that? There's so many nonprofits that are scammed. When I hear nonprofit, my first thought is, okay, here we go. I, I, I start from a prove to me you're actually a nonprofit and not a fraud scam and everybody should feel that way. Not, and this is what Wall street ape says, nonprofits are a scam. It's money laundering and fraud. Abolish nonprofits. I would have no problem with that or at least have much, much stricter rules around it. How much time I got, Michael? A little less than a minute. Okay, man, I don't know if I want to get into this. There is a very prominent, well known writer at the New York Times. Maybe you know, maybe you don't. Nick Kristoff, who had a, a piece the other day about Israel, the IDF in specific, raping people. That included a bizarre story about German shepherds raping people. Turned out none of it was true, none of it could be backed up up source was fraudulent. And this is ballooning over the last 48 hours into a really big story. This is a major columnist that ran with a hard anti Israel damning story that turned out to not be true. And I think there are some heads that could roll on this story and it's going to be a big deal. It should be a big deal if, if you don't get everything. Get the podcast, Armstrong and Getty on demand.

[Mike Lyons]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

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[Bethenny Frankel]

Are you trying to get weight loss support through telehealth? But it feels overwhelming and rushed? Check out orderlymeds.com now. Orderlymeds.com was built to be different. Here you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility and guide you through a plan that's right for you. Orderly Meds provides access to proven GLP1 medication like semaglutide and Tirzepatide, including both name brand options and personalized compound versions when appropriate. So you have choices backed by clinical oversight, not guesswork. It's a simpler, more supportive telehealth experience designed around people who want clarity, care and confidence in their weight loss journey. And your medication is delivered directly to your home in discreet packaging so your experience stays private from start to finish. Do your research, ask the right questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. Again, that's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice, eligibility required. See Cite for details.

[Martha Stewart]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret. Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep Paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper Available now in the Reynolds scrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.

[Bethenny Frankel]

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