This Cult Sucks!

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand: "This Cult Sucks!"

Podcast by iHeartPodcasts • September 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty dive deep into the psychological underpinnings of cult-like thinking—both in literal cults and in today's ideological echo chambers. Using the notorious "Seekers" UFO cult of the 1950s as a jumping-off point, the hosts explore why people cling to debunked beliefs, drawing connections between historical cults, conspiracy theories, cognitive dissonance, and radical political subcultures. The conversation is anchored in the recent assassination of controversial conservative figure Charlie Kirk and the surrounding political and cultural fallout, including the role of online communities, social identity, and reactions to the event across the media and social platforms.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Cult Mindset and Cognitive Dissonance

[06:01 – 14:36]

• The "Seekers" UFO Cult:
  Jack recounts the story of the Seekers, a 1950s cult convinced aliens would save them from a world-ending flood on a specific date. When the flood failed to materialize, most upped their commitment instead of abandoning the belief—rationalizing that their faith had saved the world.
  • Classic example of cognitive dissonance: holding contradictory beliefs (faith vs. reality) and the psychological need to resolve the discomfort, often by doubling down on belief.
• Rationalization vs. Repentance:
  Jack summarizes Festinger’s findings:

  "Over and over again the majority of people go with the rationalization. And one of the key aspects of that is that the new explanation is non-falsifiable, but it’s just less painful." (09:47)

• Analogy to Modern Conspiracy Theories:
  • Jack draws a parallel to QAnon and political enthusiasts of all stripes—moving goal posts and elaborate rationalizations when prophecies fail.
• Social Lock-In and Identity:
  • Being socially tied to the group is often stronger than the ideology itself; over time, the group’s beliefs become core to personal identity, making exit emotionally and interpersonally costly.
  • Jack:

    "At the point when the cult defines your identity and your sense of virtue and self worth, you’re deep in and it’s hard to escape." (11:08)

• Punishment for Defection:
  • Defying the group leads to social and psychological punishment, sometimes administered by the person who is now defecting.

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2. Frameworks of Rationalization in Extremist Groups

[14:36 – 16:38]

• From Harmless Beliefs to Harmful Actions:

  • The hosts discuss why the more personally invested or culpable (i.e., the more you’ve done “in service” of a belief), the more people are motivated to rationalize further, even in the face of harm.
  • Jack notes:

    "When being in the cult or being convinced of its truth causes you to do terrible things, that makes your need to rationalize even stronger." (14:36)

• Contemporary Examples:

  • The discussion veers into fraught terrain: for example, parents approving medical procedures for their children based on certain ideological beliefs and how unbearably difficult it would be to later admit fault.

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3. The Charlie Kirk Assassination & Online/Media Fallout

[20:34 – 43:15]

• The Crime & Suspect:

  • Breakdown of law enforcement’s pursuit of the alleged perpetrator, including how the father recognized his son from news images and urged him to turn himself in.

• Transgender & Ideological Connections:

  • Hosts discuss conjecture over the suspect’s roommate and romantic links to trans communities and whether this had any direct role in the killing, noting the surge of speculation on social media.
    • Jack:

      "I think it absolutely might play a role in the reason for killing the guy." (24:13)

• Online Radicalization:

  • Hosts examine the role of online ideological subcultures, echo chambers, and celebratory responses to the murder found on platforms like Blue Sky and Facebook.
  • Cites journalist Nellie Bowles’ critique of polarized media coverage and the New York Times obituary:

    “A man is murdered in public... and the paper of record decides that this must be the perfect moment to do some fact checking about hydroxychloroquine.” (31:22)

• Media Framing & Double Standards:

  • Differences in how right/left-wing activism and violence are described in mainstream outlets.
  • Observations about the New York Times' obituary labeling Kirk a "right wing provocateur" instead of activist (29:23).

• Social Media and Threats Against Journalists:

  • Mention of prominent journalists and opinion writers receiving threats; increased hostility deterring good people from public service (37:25).
  • Michael:

    "She gets death threats all the time. People send her pictures of her house with a bullseye over it. ... I could not get used to that." (37:47)

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4. Societal Impact and The Cycle of Vilification

[34:59 – 43:15]

• Polarization & Political Violence:

  • Discussion of increasing political violence, normalization of vilification, and concerns that this trend will make politics and journalism even less attractive to well-intentioned people.
    • Jack:

      "This is going to accelerate that trend of good people not wanting to get into politics, which was already way down the road." (36:45)

  • Remarks on "the assassin's veto" replacing the "heckler's veto."
    • Michael:

      "It's the assassin's veto. Not good." (36:33)

• Comparative Reaction to Political Violence:

  • Jack shares a social media quote comparing leftist and rightist responses to violence:

    "When George Floyd died, they burned down cities. When Charlie Kirk died, we pray and host vigils. We are not the same." (42:43)

• Haters, Threats, and Social Media’s Role:

  • The panel reflects (both seriously and in jest) on the culture of online hate, the necessity of thick skin, and generational adaptation to online hostility.
    • Jack:

      "That person who posts something just horrible online, that's entirely about them. It's not about me at all. It's a pathetic, sad, angry person. I hope they get help." (40:38)

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5. Light-hearted Closers & Crew Banter

[47:06 – 51:09]

• A palate cleanser with lighter anecdotes about neighborly gestures (Jack giving donuts), awkwardly charitable moments ("here, have my used tennis balls"), and dreams of opening a taco stand, providing a tonal shift from the heavy discussion.

• Classic Armstrong & Getty ironic wit in the "Final Thoughts" segment:

  • Jack:

    "It's Final Thoughts. Armstrong & Getty. Get ready with Katie Green and Michael Angelo. It's Final Thoughts. Armstrong & Getty." (48:44)

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Notable Quotes

• On Rationalization

  • Jack Armstrong:

    "Over and over again the majority of people go with the rationalization. And one of the key aspects of that is that the new explanation is non-falsifiable, but it's just less painful." (09:47)

• On Social Identity and Cults

  • Jack Armstrong:

    "At the point when the cult defines your identity and your sense of virtue and self worth, you're deep in and it's hard to escape." (11:08)

• On Political Violence & Cultural Effects

  • Michael Angelo:

    "It's the assassin's veto. Not good." (36:33)

• On Media Double Standards

  • Jack Armstrong (citing Nellie Bowles):

    "A man is murdered in public in the middle of the day while practicing his First Amendment rights, and the paper of record decides that this must be the perfect moment to do some fact checking about hydroxychloroquine." (31:22)

• On Online Hate

  • Jack Armstrong:

    "That person who posts something just horrible online, that's entirely about them. It's not about me at all." (40:38)

• On Generational Perspective

  • Jack Armstrong:

    "It was my son who first said to me, dad, haters are going to hate. Don't worry about it. And I thought, oh, that's a bit of wisdom there." (40:38)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Why cult beliefs persist after being disproved: 06:01 – 14:36
• The role of identity and rationalization in cults and ideologies: 11:15 – 16:38
• Charlie Kirk shooting: suspect and socio-political context: 20:34 – 24:39
• Media and social reaction to assassination: 29:17 – 34:59
• Online hate and threat culture: 37:25 – 41:13
• Societal consequences, polarization, and final thoughts: 41:13 – 43:15
• Final banter and closing: 47:06 – 51:09

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Tone and Style

• Candid, unsparing, and often wryly humorous—even when covering sensitive and controversial topics.
• Balances analysis of grim topics (political violence, cult thinking) with trademark irreverent humor and lighter off-topic asides.

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Summary

Armstrong & Getty use the story of an infamous UFO cult to illuminate why people double down on debunked beliefs, with comparisons to modern political fanaticism and conspiracy movements. They connect these psychological tendencies to current events—the assassination of Charlie Kirk—discussing the interwoven dynamics of online echo chambers, identity, and media response. The hosts argue that partisans on all sides increasingly rationalize and escalate, making compromise rare and public life more fraught and dangerous. The episode closes with signature banter, offering listeners both incisive commentary and moments of levity amidst the cultural gloom.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Joe Getty]

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[Producer/Engineer]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here. Here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Michael Angelo]

Fired from my job.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was just fired from my job. I was just fired from my job.

[Michael Angelo]

I was just fired from my job.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was just fired from my job. Now I have nothing but this. I have nothing but this website. I have nothing anymore. I have nothing. I have nothing anymore. I have nothing anymore. I have nothing anymore. I have nothing anymore.

[Michael Angelo]

Other than that.

[Jack Armstrong]

How's it going, Jim?

[Michael Angelo]

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[Jack Armstrong]

Always amusing. That is a transgender looking guy who lost his job for posting online his glee over Charlie Cook being murdered in cold blood. More on that multifaceted discussion, including the whole transgender thing.

[Michael Angelo]

We gotta. We got a text. Somebody said, my man and I went to a Viagra Boys concert last night. They're a Swedish punk band. I don't know their work. Do you?

[Jack Armstrong]

I do not. Katie, I love. They are awesome. I love them. I saw them when they were a small band and now they've just blown up. They're fantastic. We've actually, we've played them before on here. That song that goes sports.

[Michael Angelo]

Okay, you're right.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Viagra boys have grown. Have they?

[Michael Angelo]

Anyway, as musicians tend to be, you know how this would be. About an hour into the concert, the lead singer started with, we live in strange times. I looked at my guy and I said, let's go. I knew it was coming. The crowd was cheering we were walking out. As he continued. If we live in strange times when our world leaders mourn the death of a fascist.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, there you go ruining one of my.

[Michael Angelo]

I mean, I go to concerts knowing that's gonna happen. It's just whatever.

[Jack Armstrong]

So on a similar topic, I found this interesting is a piece by James Lindsay about what, excuse me, why cult beliefs don't stop when they're proved wrong. And you know, this applies to all sorts of different cults or cultish political, you know, subcultures and that sort of thing. But he's, he starts, he's talking about, in the 1950s, there was this UFO cult called the Seekers, and they believed there was an impending catastrophe that would strike the world on December 21, 1954. On that date, there would be a gigantic global flood right out of the Book of Genesis. As a cult, they engaged in lots of rituals, rituals and awareness raising activities about the pending disaster. They believed it was aliens. UFO cult. The aliens would save the faithful Seekers from the coming disaster. In particular, the aliens would rescue the faithful Seekers for trying to warn people about the coming catastrophe. So they're pretty public about this. And the scientist by the name of Leon Festinger wanted to understand how cult beliefs operated, how they worked. And so he infiltrated the cult posing as a faithful Seeker, and he observed it through the lead up to the fateful day. Additionally, he was positioned to observe and interview subjects when it turned out that that date, nothing of the sort had happened. And that day came and went and nothing happened.

[Michael Angelo]

It didn't. The world was not drowned by a flood in 1954.

[Jack Armstrong]

So this failed prediction marked a crisis of faith for the Seekers. So what'd they do? Did they abandon their beliefs? No, they did not abandon their beliefs, except in a few individual cases who were like, ah, right, you had me go in there for a minute, but no flood, no dice. I am out. But most this cult sucked. The vast majority of Seekers experienced some form of emotional crisis and emerged from it with a powerfully increased commitment to the Seekers beliefs. Festinger, the scientist, was really intrigued. Most of the Seekers emerged firm in a new belief. They believed that their faith and devotion had saved humanity because the aliens saw it and intervened to prevent the flood, thus saving not just the Seekers, but also humanity at large. Yay, Seekers. Now anybody who's ever watched, for instance, the Q Anon phenomenon from a safe distance, is familiar with this phenomenon. Trump is going to come in and save us all. All right, Trump comes in and he, you know, says there's really no dirt in the Epstein files, worth saying, blah blah, blah, and you, well, no, see what happened was they got to him and they blah blah, blah. You just adapt the beliefs. As Lindsay writes, it's obviously nonsense getting back to the seekers, but it served as the foundation for the psychology not just around cults, but around conspiracy theories. What Festinger observed is that under certain conditions people do not abandon their conspiracy theories or cult beliefs. When prevented with solid irrefutable evidence, those beliefs are wrong. Instead they modify and repackage their beliefs in even more tenuous ways so they can keep believing them. With the Seekers, the aliens magically intervened, blah blah, blah. Who could check this claim? Well, nobody. And that's the point he explained. What happened with the seekers is formulating what's called the theory theory of cognitive dissonant dissonance, which a lot of people have heard of but name may not fully understand. This the guy who came up with this. When our minds are occupied with two contradictory but strong beliefs, cult doctrine versus hard evidence, for instance, a state of great psychological discomfort and unrest called cognitive dissonance arises and you have two choices essentially. One is to double down on the cult belief or conspiracy theory, which is called rationalization. And the other is to accept the hard facts of reality and repent of your error, which is also psychologically painful. And you know, long story short, over and over again the majority of people go with the rationalization. And one of the key aspects of that is that the new explanation is non falsifiable, but it's just less painful.

[Michael Angelo]

Is that just the main reason that we do it? It's not painful to slightly alter my belief and stick with it as opposed to I was wrong this whole time. Kind of embarrassed. That's painful. That's interesting.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right. And actually Lindsay does a great job of explaining that. The question here is why that commitment is so deep that you stick with the group and go with an unfalsifiable claim. I mean, for instance, you can't verify or deny that the aliens appreciated the Seekers efforts and saved the world. How are you going to stress test that assertion? That's the point.

[Michael Angelo]

Some of you atheists in the audience are applying this to religion.

[Jack Armstrong]

Feel free however you want and we can all still be friends and talk about it. But. So Lindsay, here's where he applies it more to the modern day. Being socially locked into a cult is, is usually its primary hold over people, particularly at first socially locked in. Eventually the social lock will creep into one's own sense of identity through the processes of psychosocial valuation on the self, meaning how do I fit in as a valued member of the community I esteem? Who am I in relation to this community, and just who am I in general? And at the point when the cult defines your identity and your sense of virtue and self worth, you're deep in and it's hard to escape. This gets worse. He writes, in ideological, political and religious cult circumstances, especially rigid and militant ones like communism, fascism, the woke left, the woke right Part of this is psychosocial with a particularly vicious twist. You'll be heavily punished both socially and psychologically for any defection both while inside the cult and while attempting to leave it and you know it. In fact, you've probably participated in that punishment ritual against others by the point of being fully ensconced in such a cult. So in other words, not only do you have to abandon your sense of self, but all of your friends are gonna beat the crap out of you for saying, for instance, look, maybe Charlie Kirk was a bit of a jerk, but political violence is sickening. They'll turn on you.

[Michael Angelo]

So one of the things that's interesting to me about that is.

[Jack Armstrong]

You often.

[Michael Angelo]

Assume there's some sort of profit motive in somebody pushing you crap, but this person or group that they just needed something to believe in or that happens a lot, I guess, with cults.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. You have a purpose for your life. You feel like you're doing something important, you know. Two more points he makes framework to.

[Michael Angelo]

Explain the world which is unexplainable.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? Right. Frequently, yeah. Lindsay writes, because the conditions of an ideological totalizing cult can be so vicious to defectors. Rationalization is much easier road in case of doubt or encountering contradictory evidence. And most don't take it. Millions of people died in communism. Property was destroyed. Everything fell apart in a horrible war. The last time we attempted a mass movement based on your new world beliefs, Mr. Mumdani, that's because the people back then did it wrong and didn't believe in it sincerely enough. Obviously. Of course, this belief cannot be falsified. You can't prove it's wrong. And then where's the part I really want to see?

[Michael Angelo]

The governor of New York endorsed Mum Dami.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I did.

[Michael Angelo]

See, that's a big deal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Unbelievable. All right, this is long. I'm skipping.

[Michael Angelo]

I need a cult. I need the warm embrace of a cult. That might be just the way to finish out my life.

[Jack Armstrong]

You got any? Help me out with the search a little bit. It's like a chatgpt search. What aspects of the Cult.

[Michael Angelo]

We're not going to go communism or something like it. Maybe flat earth, something, something, something. Not that big a deal. Not going to harm anybody. Just something to believe.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Oh, and he points out, where the heck is that? When being in the cult or being convinced of its truth causes you to do terrible things, that makes your need to rationalize even stronger.

[Michael Angelo]

Of course.

[Jack Armstrong]

For instance, if you got convinced that a teenage girl who just fears puberty and sex is actually transgender and should get their body mutilated and they should be fed powerful hormones and you approved that for your child.

[Michael Angelo]

That's the most extreme example I can think of. Because it'd be hard to back down from that one. It's not just embarrassing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh yeah. Imagine how difficult it is to swallow that truth and say, I was wrong and I did these things and I have caused this damage.

[Michael Angelo]

That would be tough.

[Jack Armstrong]

That takes enormous emotional strength.

[Michael Angelo]

About Tupperware, is that a culture?

[Jack Armstrong]

It's cultish, certainly. I don't think it exists anymore, does it?

[Michael Angelo]

That's right. They went out of business.

[Jack Armstrong]

But I mean, if the vast majority of people who thought the space aliens were gonna save us from the flood couldn't deal with, you know what, I got defrauded here. They couldn't even like blame other people for duping them. The vast majority stuck with it and invented a new rationalization. Imagine if they had like sacrificed a child to that belief. How hard is it to say I was wrong? And that's one of the great challenges sanity has up against with some of these. Up against some of these, you know, neo Marxist extremist radical theory beliefs. People have done terrible, terrible harm.

[Michael Angelo]

Speaking of the whole trans thing, does it play an important role and the death assassination of Charlie Kirk, or is it just kind of coincidentally tangentially related or is it like the thing we got more on that coming up. Stay here.

[Producer/Engineer]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat, or a luxuriously large sectional. Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

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[Michael Angelo]

Come on.

[Producer/Engineer]

Why is this taking so long?

[Jack Armstrong]

This thing is ancient.

[Tech Advertiser]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Whoa.

[Producer/Engineer]

This thing moves.

[Tech Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[Producer/Engineer]

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[Michael Angelo]

Saying the suspect turned himself in after.

[Jack Armstrong]

His father recognized him in these surveillance.

[Tech Advertiser]

Images and urged his son to come forward.

[Jack Armstrong]

Law enforcement sources say the suspect initially said no, but later changed his mind.

[Michael Angelo]

Man. So those same pictures that we saw when they came out last week, dad saw those and saw, holy crap, that's my son.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. His friends online were like, dude, and he was joking. My doppelganger did it. So it was obvious to everyone but dad.

[Michael Angelo]

Dad knew it was him. And that's a conservative family, as a lot of families are in Utah. Some of my guess is dad knew his son was off the rails.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

Politically. So saw the picture, knew had been worried about his son, guaranteed, and his politics for a while. That's rough, by the way, and I haven't heard anybody bring this up, and maybe this is not worth even mentioning, but the whole we got him and the FBI with their dragnet and everything, dad recognized the son, turned him in. I mean, that doesn't mean you're not good FBI, but you didn't go out and catch a guy hiding somewhere. He turned himself in. I just don't quite understand the whole, though, that. That narrative. But anyway, there's more to the story you've probably heard.

[Jack Armstrong]

First of all, as the weekend began, they executed a search warrant on the family home in Washington County, Utah. It's about three or four hours from the site of the shooting. The governor, though, says multiple people are talking here, including the roommate of the suspect, who he describes as incredibly cooperative. The roommate, he says, had no idea this was happening. And he also says the roommate may have been in a romantic relationship with Tyler Robinson, may have been gender transitioning. But the governor says there's no indication or no idea yet if that's at all relevant to this case.

[Michael Angelo]

And it might not be relevant at all. We don't know yet. But is it a coincidence? Just like the craziest coincidence ever that he's in a romantic relationship with somebody who's doing the whole transgender thing, and then the moment a question is asked about transgender to Charlie Kirk, he gets a bullet in the neck. Seems like a heck of a coincidence.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, it's a crazy, crazy thing to do. What he did the murder. So could he gone have gone about it in a crazy, crazy way, waiting for the question that he found particularly objectionable or knowing it was practically inevitable that that would come up at a Charlie Kirk event and waiting for that moment? Again, that's crazy.

[Michael Angelo]

But it would be crazy because that's not going to make any difference in terms of what you're trying to accomplish. It's going to make it more likely you get caught before you accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Michael Angelo]

If you wait until the right question comes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Although it happened to happen very early in the process, like the first question. But somebody that sucked into an online ideological culture. Yeah, they might do something that strange and difficult to explain, I suppose.

[Michael Angelo]

Do you think the transgender thing plays a role in this at all?

[Jack Armstrong]

I do, I do, yeah. Yeah. Especially judging by the FBI's investigations. Some other like transgender up with transgender social media accounts that were all cheering this guy or knew him or they were online together and Charlie was well known as rejecting radical gender theory. So yeah, I think it absolutely might.

[Michael Angelo]

Play a role in the reason for killing the guy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Michael Angelo]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and it might have affected the timing too. I don't know.

[Michael Angelo]

And then you gotta wonder if it is if he is connected to any other group of people like minded that had a role in this.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Michael Angelo]

Which would be who? That'd be a big story. If that turns out to be true, we'll be following it.

[Producer/Engineer]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Time for a sofa upgrade. Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces. Anime is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk. Returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza Available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

As a parent, you wear many hats. At dinner, you're the chef. When your kids play, you're the ref. And let's face it, you're basically a full time chauffeur. Fortunately, when it's time to wear your teacher hat, abeka makes things easy. Our proven flexible homeschool curriculum is designed to let your kids retain and build on the knowledge they acquire, setting them up for success later in life. Abeka Learning for life begins with the right homeschool education. Learn [e-mail] Ah come on.

[Producer/Engineer]

Why is this taking so long?

[Jack Armstrong]

This thing is ancient.

[Tech Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 carbon ultralight, ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[Producer/Engineer]

Whoa, this thing moves.

[Tech Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[Producer/Engineer]

Running a business online look legit and own your own brand with professional tools from GoDaddy instantly build trust with your customers and boost your credibility with an email that matches your domain so people know you mean business. There's never been a better time. Just go to GoDaddy.com GDnow and choose from a wide variety of popular domains to find one that's right for you. Pair that with a professional email that works for all your business needs, from daily communications to email marketing and everything in between. That's a little price for a lot of credibility. For a limited time, get a domain and matching professional email for just 99 cents a month for one year. Go to GoDaddy.comGdNow and look legit with GoDaddy. That's GoDaddy.comGdNow again. GoDaddy.comGdNow there's never been a better time to to choose the domain and email that's right for you. New customer purchases only products auto renew separately. See terms on site godaddy.com gdnow road time leading up to this moment as Extreme gardener Alex Babish from Fort Wayne, Indiana goes for the record for the world's tallest sunflower.

[Jack Armstrong]

Clover stands nearly 36ft tall.

[Producer/Engineer]

Over the course of three months, clover grew 10 inches a day. As clover reaches up to the sun.

[Jack Armstrong]

Alex is mindful of his own roots.

[Michael Angelo]

Born and raised in Ukraine, sunflower is.

[Jack Armstrong]

A national flower of Ukraine, so it's special to me.

[Michael Angelo]

There you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's, that's, that's nice.

[Michael Angelo]

That's what we needed today. Story about the world's tallest sunflower named Clover. It has a name. It's a, it's a plant with a.

[Jack Armstrong]

Name, and the name is the name of a different plant.

[Michael Angelo]

World's tallest sunflower, huh? There you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

World's tallest shock of weed. I call it corn. The hell. 36ft is pretty dull. That's a tall sunflower. All in tribute to the the poor people of Ukraine.

[Michael Angelo]

There you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

Love it. Confused, but love it.

[Michael Angelo]

Now back to how the we're at Civil War and death.

[Jack Armstrong]

Exactly. We mentioned earlier in the show that the FBI is investigating seven. I think it was social media accounts that appeared to predict what was going to happen to poor Charlie Kirk and when at least one of those was directly tied to or followed. Charlie Kirk's allegedly trans. I'm sorry, the murderer's allegedly trans romantic interest and roommate. And there seems to be a circle of young radicals who really are into the trans thing that wanted Charlie Kirk dead and seemed to know when it was going to happen. Who knows? There's a lot of crap on the Internet. Stop clock is right twice a day, et cetera. So that's what we were referring to last segment. I thought this was great. As always, from Nellie Bowles of the Free Press, talking about the aftermath and discussions online. The rest of it, a couple of things, she writes. And then came the New York Times obituary, a classic. The headline, charlie Kirk, right wing provocateur and close ally of Trump, dies at 31. Right wing provocateur. A person trying to provoke. If you think about it as though there's no belief system behind it, just a provocateur for the sake of it. In the mainstream media worldview, there are two kinds of people, those fighting for left wing causes who are described as people of conviction, activists for justice, deep believers in equality. And then there are those fighting for right wing causes who are described as provocateurs, cynics, racists and shills, arch conservatives. They eventually changed the headline. But here's the New York Times obituary. Quote, he was so vocal in his willingness to spread unsupported claims and outright lies. He said that the drug hydroxychloroquine was 100% effective in treating the virus, which it is not that Twitter temporarily banned him in early March 2020, but that move only added to his notoriety and seemed to support his claim that he was being muzzled by a liberal elite. Nelly writes. Fascinating. A man is murdered in public in the middle of the day while practicing his First Amendment rights, and the paper of record decides that this must be the perfect moment to do some fact checking about hydrohoxychloroquine.

[Michael Angelo]

That's an excellent point. What role does that play in the story whatsoever?

[Jack Armstrong]

Right? What you need to know from this if your politics are that of a standard normie conservative man, your New York Times obituary will find the various things you said that weren't exactly right. He got into hydrochloric oxychloroquine in 2020. Can you believe that? And they'll paint them in the sky. My politics, she writes, are lib centrist and these people would certainly celebrate my death, highlight my many errors, and refer to my defense of the SAT test as my repeated advocacy for a return to slavery or something. What I'm saying is just try to stay alive because when you die, a New York Times reporter gets to juice your corpse for likes on Blue Sky. MSNBC will invite on Talking Heads to suggest that the shooter could have been your mom who forgot to put the safety on. We simp don't know. Then she talks about clicking onto Blue sky to see what was happening. I was served hundreds of posts with people celebrating. I don't follow anyone. So this is just what the standard Blue sky algorithm wanted to show me. Also dropping this right here. 34% of college students think political violence is acceptable, according to Nurse new survey on Facebook. The first thing I saw was an old journalist buddy mocking Charlie and cheering his death. We were talking early, early in the show about how widespread that sort of thing is and how it's difficult to know because of the volume and algorithms of the Internet.

[Michael Angelo]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Can we do a snap poll on.

[Michael Angelo]

It to try to figure that out?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's sick.

[Michael Angelo]

I know that Mark Halperin tweeted over the weekend. For the first day, I refused to believe that anyone was actually going on social media to celebrate Charlie's murder. Then I realized there was in fact some of it, but I assumed it was a very small amount. Now I see how naive I was. What is wrong with someone who would do that? Then he tweeted, CNN and MSNBC are not taking the remarks of Erica Kirk live. She spoke for the first time and gave a speech MSNBC and CNN did not carry. It takes a lot to surprise me. Mark Halperin wrote, this is shocking. The BBC is taking it live.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

I guess internally they thought they'd get too much blowback on MSNBC if they let her speak or.

[Jack Armstrong]

The thing that surprises me over and over again, maybe I'm a dope. Is that a lot of people who are in a media bubble, social media bubble, they believe the worst of what's being said. They actually think it's true. They've never seen an alternative point of view. And so maybe the person in charge of it at NBC actually believed. I mean, I mentioned a friend told me from the pulpit their minister in church Sunday said, now, Charlie Kirk spread division and hate. That was his career, but his murder is wrong and we pray for his family. So they just repeated as fact that that's what dude did. Man.

[Michael Angelo]

I'd have got up out of church and walked out.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes. This friend is not going to return. I believe.

[Michael Angelo]

That's unbelievable.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

What a thing to say.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

And again, even if it were true, you don't want them to get shot. That's not the way we do things.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and to spreads division. Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

In politics. What?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Well, it's just like Nellie Bowles was saying about the New York Times. If you energetically advocate for your point of view from the left, you're an energetic advocate. If you. If I then stand up and say, look, I think you're wrong and here's why I'm spreading division.

[Michael Angelo]

So Mark Halpern ended on his newsletter yesterday this morning with significant time to reflect. For the first time since the murder, I am now deeply, deeply worried about the country. We're gonna go one of two directions. It's not going to stay neutral. I don't think this is a pretty big event. It's either going to bring.

[Jack Armstrong]

More people.

[Michael Angelo]

Into the tent of we need to calm down, we need to stop vilifying the other side, need to stop calling people Hitler or saying this is going to be the last election if we lose, blah, blah, blah, or both sides are going to double down on the we have to fight as dirty as they fight because they fight dirty. And we, we've been too nice. We got to fight dirty. Now both sides are going to do that and it's going to get worse and more ugly.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Michael Angelo]

And we're going to end up with.

[Jack Armstrong]

Worse people in Politics.

[Michael Angelo]

Because normal people won't get into politics because it's too dangerous. Which obviously it's the. Beyond the heckler's veto. It's the assassin's veto. Not good.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I think this is going to accelerate that trend of good people not wanting to get into politics, which was already way down the road. I mean, you had. And I won't bother name checking them because everybody's so fired up and divided these days. But some of the best people in Congress, in the Senate, have checked out. They've left. They've resigned or not run for reelection because they're like, this is ugly and stupid. We don't accomplish anything. It's all just fundraising and hate. And if you add to that a little. And now it's really dangerous. What sort of people are going to.

[Michael Angelo]

Run for office or our journalism? So I was listening to the Dispatch podcast and Megan McCardell, who writes for the Washington Post, was on there. I don't know what you'd call her politics. She's a conservative, but I don't know, a lot of you people would disagree with her. I think she's brilliant. But any who she said, oh, she gets death threats all the time. She gets. People send her pictures of her house with a bullseye over it.

[Jack Armstrong]

It.

[Michael Angelo]

Gee, many as a, as an opinion writer for the Washington Post, yikes. She said, you just have to get used to it. I could not get used to that. I mean, we get more hate and, and veiled and sometimes not veiled threats ourselves. That I don't like it. But a picture of my house with a bullseye over it would be.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I, you know, my first thought is I'd be sorely tempted to open up a taco stand. But there is definitely a bit of. I'm not going to back down to you. Depends on your life, your circumstances. Right.

[Michael Angelo]

Well. And almost always it's somebody is not going to do anything. Almost always? Yeah, like very close to always. It's something. It's not going to do anything. It somehow makes them feel powerful or cool or whatever it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, they just want to cause pain or discomfort.

[Michael Angelo]

Because we've dealt with this a lot from threats and we immediately turn them over to police friends and then they get in contact with you. If you want to send threats, you're going to get contacted by the police and they almost always will. Always in our case. Thank God. Or. Oh, I didn't mean that. I was just, you know, I was.

[Jack Armstrong]

Pissed off and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Geez.

[Michael Angelo]

Have some Restraint.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I know, I know. Part of it, obviously, and this is obvious, it's been said many times the. The very culture of online communication and anonymity and be being behind the screen. And the rest of it is you get further and further down the really letting your ID run wild road because over and over again there are no repercussions.

[Michael Angelo]

Well, didn't you deal with that a lot over the weekend, Katie?

[Jack Armstrong]

And I don't know if we want.

[Michael Angelo]

To get into that or not because we don't want to egg that on, but you had a lot of hate coming your. For something you said. I don't know what, but.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, no, and I. It was merely correcting someone who posted misinformation. And then the next thing I know, I was a bigot. I was a racist. I should go f myself. I should go kill myself. You name it. Yeah. From people. People that I know and people that I've never seen before in my life. Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

So that's not going to go away. I don't see that ever changing. So are we just gonna get thicker skin to it, like everybody and then I don't know what's gonna happen.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, get offline. I don't know. Well, man, I've been visually sure.

[Michael Angelo]

But I mean, as a, as a culture.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, we're doomed. As a culture.

[Michael Angelo]

I was just hoping that the next generation, we're old. This is all new to us. You know, we didn't grow up this way, but I'm hoping the next generation that's lived this way their whole lives are going to figure out a way to adapt to it.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, I have told the story many times that it was my son who first said to me, dad, haters are going to hate. Don't worry about it. And I thought, oh, that's a bit of wisdom there. It reminds me of the road rage thing where, you know, at some point in my life I realized, oh, that person has a lot of anger and they're looking for a target. And if we all learn, all right, that person who posts something just horrible online, that's entirely about them. It's not about me at all. It's a pathetic, sad, angry person. I hope they get help.

[Michael Angelo]

Yeah, well, yeah, that works for a very vast majority of people. The haters are going to hate, but there's a certain chunk who their haters going to kill, haters going to attack, haters going to blow up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, my final note on this, and we are doomed, is that you can't look back to any prior spasm of violence or you know, the early 70s or whatever.

[Michael Angelo]

No, I was just about to say that. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Because the mechanism for exchanging ideas has changed so completely.

[Michael Angelo]

Right. Yeah. We had like a bombing a week through the 70s. Do you realize that? Across the country. But yeah, with they didn't have social media.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Michael Angelo]

Dang it. Where one.

[Jack Armstrong]

Boy.

[Michael Angelo]

I was going to say I was going to pick a side but I'm not sure it makes any difference. You have some sort of right wing. I'm using my finger quotes because their politics could be all over the place and they could be crazy. Kill somebody on the left, high profile. Roughly now we got a big problem. But same as the other side, you get another conservative killed by a left wing loon. Oh my God.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, there's gonna be no calling off many, many dogs. My final self serving note on this, he says having already issued his final note, came across this. When George Floyd died, they burned down cities. When Charlie Kirk died, we pray and host vigils. We are not the same.

[Michael Angelo]

There's a lot of truth to that.

[Jack Armstrong]

There is a lot of truth to that.

[Michael Angelo]

We will finish strong.

[Producer/Engineer]

Next Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This this unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Separately As a parent, you wear many hats. At dinner, you're the chef. When your kids play, you're the ref. And let's face it, you're basically a full time chauffeur. Fortunately, when it's time to wear your teacher hat, Abeka makes things easy. Our proven, flexible homeschool curriculum is designed to let your kids retain and build on the knowledge they acquire, setting them up for success later in life. Abeka Learning for life begins with the right homeschool education. Learn [e-mail] Ah, come on.

[Producer/Engineer]

Why is this taking so long?

[Jack Armstrong]

This thing is ancient.

[Tech Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultra Light Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance. It keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[Producer/Engineer]

Whoa, this thing moves.

[Tech Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[Producer/Engineer]

Running a business online look legit and own your own brand with professional tools from GoDaddy instantly build trust with your customers and boost your credibility with an email that matches your domain so people know you mean business. There's never been a better time. Just go to GoDaddy.com GDnow and choose from a wide variety of popular domains to find one that's right for you. Pair that with a professional email that works for all your business, business needs from daily communications to email marketing and everything in between. That's a little price for a lot of credibility. For a limited time, get a domain and matching professional email for just 99 cents a month for one year. Go to GoDaddy.comGdNow and look legit with GoDaddy. That's GoDaddy.comGdNow again. GoDaddy.comGdNow there's never been a better time to choose the domain and email that's right for you. New customer purchases only products Auto renew separately. See terms on site GoDaddy.com GD now 45 seconds.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's what you got to start the show. I am going to donate $100,000 to the boys and Girls Club of America. So if you stay 45 seconds it stays at $100,000. Every second you go over 45 seconds we will adduct $1,000 away from the.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Boys and Girls club.

[Jack Armstrong]

I know, I know. Can't change it this is a game I made up and these are the rules. So.

[Michael Angelo]

That'S a good idea. From the Emmys last night. Deep Barati, the comedian, a charity for a good cause. And if you go over the speech time, it ducks money. I can't change it. That's a pretty funny idea, huh? So we got some texts earlier. If you didn't hear my story about giving donuts to my neighbors, that was an hour two on the podcast. Armstrong, you getty on demand. I found myself with a whole bunch of donuts because the donut shop gave us extras. When we went there at closing time and they were sitting around the house and I was worried about eating them. I got a brand new neighbor and I thought, I'm going to take this over to the neighbors. I'm going to say, hey, here's a little neighborhood welcome gift. I felt bad about it though, as I walked away and heard him say to his wife, oh, God, our next door neighbor's really a nice guy. Look, he brought donuts when all I was doing was trying to get rid of the donuts in my house.

[Jack Armstrong]

He thought it would be a nice. Oh, hey, wait a minute. So that you weren't completely not thinking anything. Nice and kind. It was there.

[Michael Angelo]

It's like Michael said, I could say, hey, I got an extra pork chop. You want this? But. So you have to be a long time listener to get this one. We got this text, jack, give your neighbor your used tennis balls.

[Jack Armstrong]

Remember that story? Well, I don't.

[Michael Angelo]

Oh, my God. I'll have to tell that again on the the podcast than if you don't remember it.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's Final Thoughts.

[Michael Angelo]

I'm strong Again. It's Final Thoughts.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's Final Thoughts. I'm strong to get it. Get ready with Katie Green and Michael Angelo. It's Final Thoughts. I'm strong.

[Michael Angelo]

Here's your host for Final Thoughts, Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hey, let's get a final thought from everybody on the crew to wrap things up for the day. There he is in the control room. Michelangelo, pressing the buttons. Michael, what's your final final thought? You kind of stole mine, Jack. I. I was going to suggest giving all your leftovers to your next door neighbors.

[Michael Angelo]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

The other thing too is Joe, I'm.

[Michael Angelo]

Really looking forward to this taco stand.

[Jack Armstrong]

You've mentioned it several times that you're going to open one of these things, so. I'm hungry for tacos. Yeah, a buddy of mine and I have been discussing this very long time. Joe and Brian's California Tacos. Yeah, we're gonna have the, the chicken, the fish, the, the beef.

[Michael Angelo]

Sounds like a good idea.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tacos. In short, Katie Greener, esteemed newswoman has a final thought. Katie thought on the donuts, Jack. You could have thrown them away. And there are starving children all over the world, so you did the right thing. And did they eat some donuts or. I've never understood that rationale. Jack, final thought for us.

[Michael Angelo]

Can I do a quick version of the tennis ball story? I was playing tennis with my son at the country club place where we are. I was dressed particularly poorly that day. A couple of guys who are playing tennis gave me their used tennis balls, said, I thought you and your son could use.

[Jack Armstrong]

The poor and downtrodden are attempting to learn this honored, time honored game. Isn't that sweet? Here, have my fuzzy ball. Oh.

[Michael Angelo]

Armstrong and Yeti wrapping up another grueling four hour workday.

[Jack Armstrong]

So people, thanks. So little time. Go To Armstrong and getty.com for the hotlinks for the swag for Katie's corner. Drop us a Note [e-mail] you have an opinion, you want to share it, be happy to read it.

[Michael Angelo]

Look at that poor downtrodden man. Probably gets to see his son once a week from the home he's in. Let's give him our used tennis balls. See you tomorrow. God bless America. Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

There have been so many magnificent moments. Oh. On today's Armstrong and Getty show.

[Michael Angelo]

But perhaps none finer than this. I can't believe you still want a pony so bad.

[Jack Armstrong]

I really do. A beautiful little pony I can call my own and feed you live in town.

[Michael Angelo]

You can't. You can't just have a pony.

[Jack Armstrong]

Let's not, let's not give up over small obstacles. Bye bye Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Time for a sofa upgrade. Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699. Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas. Com. Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Jack Armstrong]

Ah, come on.

[Producer/Engineer]

Why is this taking so long?

[Jack Armstrong]

This thing is ancient.

[Tech Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultra Light Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[Producer/Engineer]

Whoa, this thing moves.

[Tech Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lino lenovo.com Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

As a parent, you wear many hats. At dinner, you're the chef. When your kids play, you're the ref. And let's face it, you're basically a full time chauffeur. Fortunately, when it's time to wear your teacher hat, Abeka makes things easy. Our proven flexible homeschool curriculum is designed to let your kids retain and build on the knowledge they acquire, setting them up for success later in life. Abeka Learning for life begins with the right homeschool education.

[Jack Armstrong]

Learn more at abekahomeschool.com the 2025 NFL season is underway. Don't miss your chance to be a part of the action. Tickets to all regular season games are on sale now. Be there live to support your favorite team. See every epic showdown, every classic rivalry, and Every primetime game. 17 games for all 32 teams. Visit NFL.com tickets to purchase tickets today. Verified tickets are available through the NFL Ticket network, including Ticketmaster, Seatgeek and Sports Illustrated tickets. This is an iHeart podcast.