Trains & Deterence

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Trains & Deterrence
Release Date: May 29, 2025

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Introduction

In the "Trains & Deterrence" episode of the Armstrong & Getty On Demand podcast, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty engage in a multifaceted discussion addressing pivotal geopolitical issues, particularly focusing on the Russia-Ukraine conflict and the broader concept of deterrence in international relations. The episode also features an insightful interview with Tim Sandifer from the Goldwater Institute, who delves into legal matters concerning privacy and nonprofit donations. Throughout the conversation, listeners' perspectives are explored, offering a diverse range of viewpoints on these critical topics.

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1. Understanding Deterrence in the Russia-Ukraine Conflict

The episode opens with a deep dive into the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war, emphasizing the importance of deterrence as a strategy to prevent further Russian expansionism.

• Support for Ukraine: Jack Armstrong asserts the necessity of backing Ukraine to curb Russian aggression. At [05:17], he states, "We need to back Ukraine to halt Russian aggression lest they become emboldened and try to gobble up even more territory." This highlights the hosts' stance on the importance of sustained support to maintain geopolitical stability.

• Preventing Escalation: The conversation touches upon the delicate balance required in supporting Ukraine without provoking a direct military confrontation with Russia. At [09:01], Armstrong emphasizes, "Anything we do to support Ukraine in a way that would truly threaten Russia will be viewed by Russia as an attack on Russia."

• Listener Perspectives: The hosts engage with listener emails presenting varied viewpoints. For instance, Justin, a semi-regular correspondent, challenges the hosts' analysis by stating, "Your analysis of what's happening with foreign policy and tariffs are very surface level," urging a deeper examination of the motivations behind political rhetoric.

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2. Interview with Tim Sandifer: Legal Insights on Privacy and Donations

Tim Sandifer, Vice President for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, joins the conversation to shed light on the legal challenges surrounding privacy and political donations.

• Transparency vs. Privacy: Sandifer discusses the progressive push to make donor information to nonprofits publicly accessible. He argues that such measures lead to harassment and intimidation of conservative donors. At [34:40], he explains, "Once you put people's names and addresses out there, they are targeted for harassment and intimidation and violence."

• State vs. Federal Protections: Highlighting the role of state constitutions, Sandifer points out that they often provide broader protections than the federal constitution. At [37:23], he states, "People tend to forget that the state constitutions protect your rights more broadly than the federal constitution does."

• Legal Precedents: The discussion references the Supreme Court case AFP vs. Bonta, where California was compelled to release private IRS documents of nonprofits, underscoring the implications for donor privacy and freedom of association.

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3. Critique of California's Bullet Train Project

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing California's ambitious bullet train initiative, critiquing its economic viability and governmental decision-making.

• Economic Implications: Joe Getty criticizes the project by highlighting inefficiencies and the phenomenon of rent-seeking. At [39:14], he remarks, "The people who receive funding have a huge incentive to lobby the government for more," illustrating the challenges of governmental overreach and misallocation of funds.

• Historical Context: Getty draws parallels between current government projects and historical instances of inefficient spending in California. He notes, "We have the same story as 1850, in 1890, in 1910...being screwed by railroads all over again," emphasizing recurring patterns of fiscal mismanagement.

• Alternative Solutions: Armstrong and Getty discuss potential strategies to address such large-scale projects, including enhancing domestic manufacturing capabilities to meet defense and infrastructural needs more efficiently.

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4. Personal Anecdotes and Community Engagement

Interspersed with serious discussions, Armstrong and Getty share personal stories and interact with community topics, adding a relatable dimension to the episode.

• Home Remodeling: Armstrong shares his experiences with home remodeling, humorously comparing the process to navigating marital dynamics. This segment provides a lighter break from the intense geopolitical discourse.

• Mental Health Awareness: A segment on panic attacks features Tim Sandifer opening up about the unpredictable nature of such experiences, fostering awareness and empathy among listeners. At [47:37], he mentions, "It happens. It can happen out of nowhere."

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5. Legal Frameworks and Governmental Oversight

Continuing the conversation with Tim Sandifer, the episode delves deeper into the interplay between state and federal laws, especially concerning government transparency and individual privacy.

• Government Oversight: Sandifer discusses Arizona's legal battles against mandatory disclosure of nonprofit donors, emphasizing the state's constitutional protections. He states, "We're going to argue that this violates the state constitution's free speech and privacy rights guarantees," at [37:16].

• Federalism's Role: The discussion underscores the importance of federalism in providing higher levels of protection for individual rights, with Sandifer noting, "That's a whole reason for federalism, is to ensure that the government can't deprive you of your federal Bill of Rights protections," at [37:16].

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Conclusion

The "Trains & Deterrence" episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand offers a comprehensive exploration of critical issues ranging from international conflict and deterrence strategies to intricate legal battles over privacy and political donations. Through engaging dialogue and expert insights from Tim Sandifer, the hosts provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the complexities shaping today's geopolitical and legal landscapes.

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Notable Quotes

1. Jack Armstrong [05:17]: "We need to back Ukraine to halt Russian aggression lest they become emboldened and try to gobble up even more territory."

2. Jack Armstrong [09:01]: "Anything we do to support Ukraine in a way that would truly threaten Russia will be viewed by Russia as an attack on Russia."

3. Tim Sandifer [34:40]: "Once you put people's names and addresses out there, they are targeted for harassment and intimidation and violence."

4. Joe Getty [39:14]: "The people who receive funding have a huge incentive to lobby the government for more."

5. Joe Getty [37:23]: "People tend to forget that the state constitutions protect your rights more broadly than the federal constitution does."

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Resources Mentioned:

• Goldwater Institute: goldwaterinstitute.org
• AFP vs. Bonta Case: Supreme Court Documentation (Placeholder link)

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the core discussions and insights presented in the episode.

Transcript

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[Unknown]

Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here, here's Armstrong and Yeti.

[Tim Sandifer]

So this is, this is an open question and we'll, you know, you decide for yourself after we play it. Did Trump drop an ultimatum on Putin yesterday in his little mini press conference when he was asked about the Russia, Ukraine, ceasefire, etc. Here we go.

[Joe Getty]

Do you believe the Russians are being.

[Tim Sandifer]

Disrespectful when they say that your criticisms.

[Joe Getty]

Of Putin are simply an emotional response? And do you still believe that Putin actually wants to end the war?

[Unknown]

I can't tell you that, but I'll.

[Joe Getty]

Let you know in about two weeks.

[Tim Sandifer]

Within two weeks we're going to find.

[Unknown]

Out very soon we're going to find out whether or not he's tapping us along or not. And if he is, we'll respond a little bit differently.

[Tim Sandifer]

But it'll take about a week and a half, two weeks.

[Unknown]

We have Mr. Witkoff is here who's.

[Tim Sandifer]

Doing a phenomenal job, is dealing with.

[Jack Armstrong]

Them very strongly right now. They, they seem to want to do.

[Unknown]

Something, but until the document is signed, I can't tell you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Nobody can. As usual.

[Tim Sandifer]

Little difficult to figure out exactly what he's saying or not saying. There. Is he saying there's a ceasefire agreement to sign in two weeks and if they don't, then sanctions or continuing to arm Ukraine? Is that what he's saying?

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know. The idea that in two weeks he'll know whether Putin wants peace, that's insane, that's loopy. Putin doesn't want peace. There's not a chance. He, I don't, I really don't get his thinking.

[Tim Sandifer]

Just to remind you, in case you don't remember, he did tell Iran, for instance, if you don't this or that, like in the next week, all hellfire is going to come down on you. And it they didn't do whatever he asked and all hellfire has not come down on them.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

There have been some as yet unfulfilled threats.

[Tim Sandifer]

Oh, how about Hamas? Hamas, all the hostages back by Monday or the likes of which you've never seen, etc. Etc.

[Jack Armstrong]

Did not bothers me.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah. Hell yeah. Obviously, if you've ever parented a child, yeah. You, you do that threat without any follow through and you get a result. As in they don't listen to you next time.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. So we asked yesterday, Jack and I are both of the mind with some subtle differences, but of the mind that we, the west need to back Ukraine to halt Russian aggression lest they become emboldened and try to gobble up even more territory. Also to send the message to China and others that we are not a fair weather friend. If we say we're gon back you, we're going to back you. And you can't just string us along for a year or two. We get bored, move on, then you get whatever you want, no matter how evil you are and how bent on the conquest of the world you are. There are those who disagree somewhat or completely. Call them isolationists, which I think is probably a little unfair. Or what do they call them?

[Tim Sandifer]

Non interventionists.

[Jack Armstrong]

Non interventionists or restrainers. Less America being the world's policeman type people. And, and we said, all right, what are we getting wrong? What are we missing? Drop us an email. And so we're gonna hit you with a couple of those. We'll see how strong you think the arguments are. Let's see. Justin, Truck drivers, a semi regular correspondent writes, I'm not gonna go into a long detailed argument because in the past you have straw man to my arguments and taking them out of context, well, there's the victim card right up front. Typical of your sort. Anyway. But then I read on Tucker and others use Christianity as a euphemism for white Europeans. We're talking about how absurd it is to look at Vladimir Putin as the protector of or savior of Christianity as he's posturing himself to be, having formed an alliance with the Russian Orthodox Church, which is corrupt and evil. But I want to go ahead and give Justin's argument.

[Tim Sandifer]

And if the whatever they call the leader of the Russian Orthodox bishop or whatever he is, if he didn't go along with Putin, he'd fall out of a window until they got somebody who would go along with him.

[Jack Armstrong]

All right, so anyway, here's Justin the truck driver's whole argument. Tucker and other others used Christianity as a euphemism for white Europeans. They do this to win over boomers who are snowflakes when it comes to the idea of race realism. Your analysis of what's happening with foreign policy and tariffs are very surface level. And because all of your sources are mainstream media, that's not even close to true, Justin. But I will read on. The dissident right isn't happy with most of what Trump is doing, but the good he is doing against the military industrial complex and globalism outweighs the bad. The soft right is fine with Israel's ethno state and their Greater Israel expansion, but apoplectic at the idea of strong men in Europe defending white European ethnostates.

[Tim Sandifer]

How is, how is Putin defending his country? He attacked Ukraine, Ukraine didn't attack him.

[Jack Armstrong]

He would say NATO got too close and they were warned over and over again not to do that. I think. Let's see, here's another point of view. Good morning gentlemen. Regarding Putin's advances in your premise that he's not going to stop invading Ukraine, a very simple question. Yes. And what do you propose we do about it? Seriously, what is the alternative scenario other than a full blown kinetic war with Russia? Are you proposing that we should deploy men and material to stop him? If not, what else can we do? Listeners since day one, you guys should be household names across our great land. Well, I certainly agree with you with that last point, Chris. A very, very short answer to your question is deterrence.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah, I would say men definitely not. But material support of Ukraine. Absolutely. And again, my thinking is it makes it more likely that we end up in a full kinetic war against Russia if we let them take Ukraine, not less likely.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, although he's asking about advances into NATO countries, are you saying no men for that? If, well that's, that is the start marching on Warsaw, that that's where we.

[Tim Sandifer]

End up in a real tough situation. That's why you gotta push him out of Ukraine or make it clear that you don't get to take all of Ukraine. Because if he does take Ukraine, and I think if he, if he gets to keep what he's got now even he's going to make that minor incursion like we, as Joe Biden called it that we talked about yesterday into Estonia or one of those NATO countries. And that is going to be the big decision point for NATO. Is Article 5 for real or not? Is an attack on one an attack on all and we all come to their support? And if that's the case, then yeah, we would have to send troops because.

[Jack Armstrong]

That'S our obligation which would prevent a full on kinetic war with Russia. In my opinion. You let him take bite after bite after bite. As the old saying goes, his hunger grows with the eating. Moving along in the Ukraine war, Chris writes, all we need to do is give Ukraine their nukes back. Yeah, that's right. Under the Clinton administration we persuaded, persuaded Ukraine in the name of non nuclear proliferation to give up their nukes without giving them any real specific security guarantees. And they have suffered, suffered for trusting the United States of America, which makes me sick.

[Tim Sandifer]

You know, I am constantly referencing Menachem beginning because I've read way too much about him in the peace process. I just finished the Lawrence Wright book thirteen Days. If you have any interest in the Middle east or any peace process. I think I learned a lot from that book about what they're going to try to do here with Russia and Ukraine. These peace process talks are. Can be crazy and you got wild human emotions involved. It's not all high level college PhD foreign policy, this and that. It's just like people being butt hurt or feeling wounded or it's like a fight between a husband and a wife as much as anything else. But anyway, my point being Menachem Begin why he did a lot of crazy s over the years as a prime minister was the world says never again. Bull. They'll let it happen again if it'd be inconvenient for him. Only we can protect ourselves and we gotta do whatever we have to do to protect ourselves. And when I was reading that, I mean that is his ultimate philosophy. He didn't say that specifically, that was his ultimate philosophy. When I was reading that, I was thinking Ukraine. Ukraine giving up their nukes because the world will protect us. Never again. Yeah, not so much.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right. Let's see. Paolo writes. This really isn't an answer to your why is it wrong to back you in Crane question. Just the thoughts about a few things I need. I think we need to keep in mind we aren't the dominant military power we were post wwii. We no longer have the ability to police the world and impose our will to whatever extent we deem necessary.

[Tim Sandifer]

True.

[Jack Armstrong]

Uh, that. Yeah, that's true. There are nuances there. I tell you this and maybe we'll get to it on another day. Just read some unbelievable stuff about the state of our manufacturing capabilities and our stockpiles of weapons, which is something we've talked about before and others have too. But we in some of our key weapons systems, our stockpiles would run out in days and to replenish them would take years. How the hell are you gonna fight a war with that situation? You spend all of your artillery shells in say 10 days and then say can y' all hang on till 2028 cuz we gotta work on getting some more shells. We're in a terrible state. But more on that another time. How we might deal with that crazy. Interesting. I'll give you the 5 second version. We figure out every manufacturer in the United States and what they're good at and code them and understand how they could be tweaked and then scaled up to manufacture weaponry. And then we can immediately say all two Cs. We're going to call them and give them incentives to stop manufacturing, you know, bicycle spokes and start manufacturing bullets or whatever. Anyway, we have a huge, huge challenge with that. It's a good point. Anything we do to support Ukraine in a way that would truly threaten Russia will be viewed by Russia as an attack on Russia.

[Tim Sandifer]

Well, that's like his problem. Sounds like a him problem.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. What are you gonna do?

[Tim Sandifer]

You're gonna fight the, you're gonna fight NATO in the United States?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. You don't want to be reckless or an idiot, but the whole. Well, we don't want them to escalate, make them afraid. We're going to escalate.

[Tim Sandifer]

Correct.

[Jack Armstrong]

That kept the world at peace for your generation and five others. And we've forgotten. Let's see. And there's more on that topic. It's good stuff. But I want to hit a couple more very briefly. Let's see. Jeff says Putin's a terrible scum of a human who's hell bent on being bullied to the world. My issue, as an American who was born in the early 80s and seen and heard firsthand about the issues and mostly unsuccessful large scale military interventions we've been in the last 65 years, I don't think it's worth one single American soldier's life to be involved in this conflict, war, tragedy. I'm not even happy with hundreds of billions of dollars tax being money, taxpayer money being used either. The unwillingness to engage in large scale military action is what brings on large scale military action.

[Tim Sandifer]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And the problem is an oversimplification. Absolutely true.

[Tim Sandifer]

I understand how having lived through the wars you've lived through, but you would have that point of view. But us getting involved in Iraq has nothing to do with whether or not you can let Russia start gobbling up countries nearby and sending the message to China that you can take Taiwan unopposed.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. The problem with Iraq and the problem with all mistakes is the danger of over learning lessons. You can do the right thing in the wrong way. You can do the right thing in the right way. You can do the wrong thing in the right way. You can do the wrong thing in the wrong way. And you got to figure out which of all of those are and then, or each one of those might be and then drill down on the particulars and learn the correct lessons. But thanks for the thoughts. Keep them coming. Mailbagarmstrongandgetti.com we are absolutely not about having one viewpoint here. And it's the only one. And we're cultists in one way or another. No, this stuff is hard. We like gnawing on the problems. Thanks for your assistance.

[Tim Sandifer]

We'll leave it alone from now. But, man, as I kept saying yesterday, the ball is in Trump's court. What is he going to do? Going to do? Is he going to throw up his hands and say, that's it. You guys don't want peace figured out yourselves, which is a win for Putin? Or is he going to back the sanctions that Europe has already come with and we continue to arm Ukraine?

[Jack Armstrong]

And next, next segment, one very short email, extremely controversial, but powerful.

[Tim Sandifer]

Okay. And Tim the lawyer this hour, which everybody loves.

[Jack Armstrong]

Stay here.

[Unknown]

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[Jack Armstrong]

So what is Odoo?

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

Prices will be going up. The CEO announcing the hikes will offset tariffs and competition. Macy's not yet revealing which items will cost more. The retailer saying the tariffs are damp.

[Tim Sandifer]

Their earnings forecast as well, so remember Walmart a couple of weeks ago said they're going to raise prices on a whole bunch of different stuff. Obviously that story was before the court came out yesterday and said Trump doesn't have the power to do that. One guy can't do that. And so most of the tariffs are off. So where does that leave us on raising prices, I wonder? Who knows?

[Jack Armstrong]

This is the Court of International Trade. Few people understood it existed. We talked about it a couple of weeks ago, warning you that this might happen. It now goes to the Court of Appeals and then the Supreme Court. But yeah, they've said no, the President doesn't have unilateral emergency powers to do what he's doing.

[Tim Sandifer]

But will Walmart still raise prices and Macy's and everybody else or.

[Jack Armstrong]

Don't know. It's all up in the air now. Well, it's, it's still up in the air, I should say. One more email on the Russia, Ukraine thing. Different perspectives. Kevin writes on a couple of different topics, but he says finally, and this is where I put my tinfoil hat on. I'm not sure that's true, Kevin. He says, is Europe so far gone that it doesn't make sense for us to sink blood and treasure into helping them? If I play out the demographic reality of the UK for instance, in 50 to 75 years there'll be a nuclear armed Islamic power. Oh, maybe that's tomorrow's problem, but I don't know that we can bank on our European allies being around in the coming generations unless they course correct. Good, good point, Kevin. That's uncomfortably close to the truth.

[Tim Sandifer]

I, yeah, I told the story, although.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think there is course correction going on immigration wise. Go ahead.

[Tim Sandifer]

Sorry. I told this story many years ago. I actually met a tinfoil hat guy, if you're familiar with that phrase. How did it even get started or become kind of a common term?

[Jack Armstrong]

People who used like aluminum foil to reflect various government rays they thought were being trained upon them or space aliens.

[Tim Sandifer]

In the case of this dude, I know he was a PhD at the university, super smart guy. But he would wear a tin foil on his head and on the tops of his shoes. He would ride his bike to my house with tinfoil on tops of his shoes on top of his head to reflect. I think it was extraterrestrial stuff. And he also had it on the seat of his bike. And he talked about it endlessly in very serious tones.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wouldn't the foil on the seat of his bike reflect the rays back up into his grundle area.

[Tim Sandifer]

And taint that a problem. I don't know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Taint that a shame. Coming up, Tim Sandifer. The Goldwater Foundation. By the way, just an aside on a lighter note, my wife and I are having a bit of a remodel done. Expanding our back patio, pushing out a wall, redoing the kitchen, that sort of thing. Really outdated footprint in the swing.

[Tim Sandifer]

Whatever you guys do.

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know. Whatever we do. Yeah. But although it's funny, when they were just building things like expanding the patio. Oh, look, they're pouring the footing. They're building up the cinder blocks, the bricks they're building. That's n. It was all fine and good, but now that they're dismantling my house and tearing it apart, it's getting real in here. I feel like, you know, like a bride who was saving yourself for the wedding. And the courtship was wonderful, and the wedding ceremony was beautiful, and the reception was so much fun. But now we're in the marital bed and it's like, oh, that's right. Yeah, this is real. This is actually happening. Hello, plastic walls.

[Tim Sandifer]

Oh, man. Tim the lawyer, which, if you haven't heard him, you're gonna love it. Fan favorite. Coming up to talk about a whole bunch of different things, law wise.

[Unknown]

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[Joe Getty]

Talk.

[Tim Sandifer]

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[Unknown]

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[Jack Armstrong]

So good. Your bill, ladies.

[Tim Sandifer]

I got it.

[Unknown]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Seriously, This.

[Tim Sandifer]

I assisted first. Don't be silly.

[Unknown]

You don't be silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Shoot. No.

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[Unknown]

Sonesta Travel Pass is the most rewarding way to travel. Sign [e-mail] for instant savings and bonus points and perks like early check in and late checkout, room upgrades and free stays. Choose from 1100 hotels across 13 brands and unlock their best rates when you book with Sonesta TravelPass. Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] that's sinesta.com Terms and conditions apply. Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple, and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types. And it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of Melonleaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful meaningful beauty.com.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hey everybody. So when you get asked, what is Odoo? What comes to mind? Well, I'll tell you. Odoo is a bit of everything. Odoo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth. But you know, some people also say that Odoo is like a magic beanstalk because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, but then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks. Whatever your business needs, manufacturing, accounting, HR programs, you can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company.

[Jack Armstrong]

So what does Odoo?

[Joe Getty]

Well, Odoo is a bit of everything. Odoo is a fertilizer, magic beanstalk. Building blocks for business. Yeah, that's it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which means that Odoo is exactly what every business needs. Learn more and sign up [e-mail]. that's O D oo.com at Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car or a house. It's the four wheels that get you where you're going and the four walls that welcome you home. When you combine auto and home insurance with Amica, we'll help protect it all.

[Tim Sandifer]

And the more you cover, the more you can save.

[Jack Armstrong]

Amica Empathy is our best policy.

[Tim Sandifer]

Too much news. We've been saying that for a while. Government needs to step in. There's too much news every day and.

[Jack Armstrong]

Too many good books. I was thinking that too. Maybe one. One or two a week. Yeah. All the government should permit to discuss a number of important constitutional issues before various courts these days. Please welcome Tim the lawyer Sandifer. Tim's the vice president for legal affairs with the Goldwater Institute, also an adjunct scholar with the Cato Institute. Always a pleasure, Tim. How are you?

[Joe Getty]

I'm just great. You know, you joke about limiting the number of books to be published every year. France actually does do that.

[Tim Sandifer]

Really? What's the theory behind that?

[Joe Getty]

It forces people to read better books.

[Tim Sandifer]

Well, if, you know, it's classic censorship. If I could trust who was making the list, that would be fine. But you can't.

[Joe Getty]

It's totally ridiculous.

[Jack Armstrong]

Freaking French. Am I wrong? I'm not wrong.

[Tim Sandifer]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

I know that they actually have a.

[Tim Sandifer]

Limit on how many books can be published.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's insane. My God, I hate collectivism so much. So, Tim, before we get into some really interesting stuff that the Goldwater Institute and you are involved in personally, is there anything in the Supreme Court docket? Because they make all sorts of big announcements in June. Anything particularly exciting that you're looking forward to?

[Joe Getty]

None of the big cases have been decided yet. They are going to, except for there was the case about religious discrimination in schools. It was charter schools that wanted to operate in Oklahoma as an officially church oriented school. But in Oklahoma, the law deems charter schools to be public schools. And the question therefore was, can the government officially charter explicitly religious school, or does that violate the First Amendment? And the Supreme Court said, yes, that's not allowed. But they did so on an even split. Four justices went one way and four justices went the other way, and Justice Barrett was recused from the case. So that means it sets no legal precedent, and that means it's still up in the air about the constitutionality of government basically allowing private religious schools to operate under the government's aegis. It was one of the things we had all been watching for very closely.

[Tim Sandifer]

And.

[Joe Getty]

And it kind of ended with a fizzle, which means that next year we're going to have to be arguing this issue all over again.

[Tim Sandifer]

So one quick question on this before we get to what I know you want to talk about. And there's not an Obamacare or a gay marriage every year, obviously, but there's usually a big case we're waiting for. Is. Is it just like an anomaly that there's not a big case? Or did this court decide to issue their big ones rather than wait to the last day in a way that most courts don't?

[Joe Getty]

Well, the justices can release an opinion at any time. They usually hold the controversial one to the last day, primarily because the dissenting justices want to write their disagreement as thoroughly as possible. And so as a courtesy, they hold off until everybody's comfortable. We like to joke that the reason they hold off is that they can get out of town on the July 4th holiday when they make everybody angry. But there have been a number of kind of controversial decisions that have already come out. And I think the reason why is because there are. We now have a more conservative court, there are fewer liberal justices, so there's fewer reasons to hold off and wait, you know. And so we're starting to see the cases get front loaded more into the summer. I mean, it's kind of inside baseball as to why they do that. But I think the court is also more interested to nowadays in culture issues. You see these issues about, you know, sex education in schools and whether parents have a constitutional right to withdraw their children from the school, that sort of issue. And less of the property rights oriented issues that we see in previous terms. But it's really hard to say because they can, they can take whatever path they want in deciding what cases to hear and how they decide.

[Jack Armstrong]

I find it curious that you, as a non sports fan who does not use many sports metaphors, use, use the sports metaphor. That refers to getting far too into sports metaphors. Inside baseball. We're through the looking glass, Tim.

[Joe Getty]

Baseball is my one exception, Joe. I, I enjoy a baseball game. The reason I'm okay with baseball is because when you go to a baseball game, nobody expects you to attention. And so that's why, you know, I.

[Tim Sandifer]

It'S funny, I was at a baseball game Friday night and I was thinking about, I can see why it doesn't work for young people. It is kind of a. You kind of sit around and talk and you don't have to pay close attention. It's like listening to a long jazz solo. You almost kind of have to tune out to get into it or whatever.

[Joe Getty]

And you and I being jazz fans, that's cool with it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I pay attention to every pitch and assess it on a number of different metrics. So. So you're not holding your breath for any particular Supreme Court decision in the next few weeks?

[Joe Getty]

No, not for the next few weeks. But there are a lot of interesting cases coming up. This tariff decision yesterday is really, it's a fantastic win for freedom. Got to give congratulations to my friends at the Liberty justice center in Illinois who brought this case and struck down these illegal unconstitutional tariffs. It's a big win, but that case is going to be appealed to the Court of Appeals next and then of course to the U.S. supreme Court. So excited about that.

[Jack Armstrong]

As you know, we're big around here, whether quote unquote, our guy is in office or the other side's guy or somebody nobody likes. Just limiting executive power is good anyway. Goldwater Institute doing some good stuff with protecting privacy, specifically of donors. Do you want to tell us about that?

[Joe Getty]

So, you know, there's these efforts that the progressives especially are pursuing to force people to list their names, addresses and telephone numbers and their employment information on a publicly accessible government list whenever they donate to a nonprofit organization like the Goldwater Institute, for example, that's out there making statements about politics or endorsing or opposing ballot initiatives. And the progressives want to expose people's private information in this way because they say, well, this will keep the money out of politics. Which is nonsense. I mean, as long as the government can redistribute wealth, there's going to be money in politics, because that's why people invest money in poverty, because they want to get a profit from it. The only way to get money out of politics is to get the government out of the business of picking winners and losers in the marketplace and taking money from some people and giving it to other people. But the progressives don't want to do that. So instead what they want to do is name and shame anybody who supports a cause that progressives don't like. And the result, of course, is harassment and intimidation and violence against people who donate to nonprofits that are conservative in orientation, primarily. And there have been cases, the big one a few years ago in the US Supreme Court called AFP vs Bonta, where California forced these nonprofits to turn over their private IRS documents, not redacted, and then posted them on their Internet and distributed them. And once you put people's names and addresses out there, they are targeted for harassment and intimidation and violence.

[Tim Sandifer]

I was gonna say that back in the day, this would have been bad, but not nearly. Is in the Internet age where, wow, they can, they can figure out what caused Jenny and accounting donated money to and get that out there. And people can start, you know, attacking her online or going by her house or whatever. That's horrifying.

[Joe Getty]

Oh yeah. And you know, Prop 8 in California, the single same sex, anti same sex marriage initiative, the people who donated to that campaign had their names and addresses posted on the Internet and they were subjected to a campaign of intimidation and harassment, vandalism of their houses, damage to their churches. People would track down these churches and knock their signs and statues over and graffiti on all these sorts of things. And that was years afterwards. I mean, once your information is out there, it's always out there. So a cause that is today considered perfectly normal. Remember President Obama himself would oppose the same sex.

[Tim Sandifer]

He and Hillary both ran on marriage between a man and a woman. That wasn't that long ago.

[Joe Getty]

So then. But 20 years later, that becomes a politically anathema, politically incorrect, as bad as segregation, et cetera, et cetera. And so now people can track down who donated to that campaign and harass them and threaten them. This is all intended to silence conservative voices, to stop them from donating to causes they believe in. And then the progressives can go out there and say, see, we got money out of politics because we get our way.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow. Just as a quick aside, you mentioned Rob Bonta, the Attorney General of California. If I were to state that I think he's a rotten human being who would willingly urinate on an original copy of the Constitution, what would your response be, Tim?

[Joe Getty]

It's your First Amendment right to say that, Joe, and to donate to a cause that supports that position. Well, what we're doing in Arizona. So Arizona passed one of these laws that says you have to put your name on a government list if you donate to a nonprofit. We sued over this, and this case is now going to the Arizona Supreme Court, which is going to hear the case argued in September, arguing that this law violates the state constitution's protections for free speech and privacy. And this is a new wrinkle, because most of these cases have been argued under the federal First Amendment. People tend to forget that the state constitutions protect your freedom more broadly than the federal constitution does. So we're going to the Arizona Supreme Court to argue that ignore the federal law. This violates the state constitution's free speech and privacy rights guarantees.

[Tim Sandifer]

That's interesting as a statement that you just made. The state constitution protects you more than the federal constitution.

[Joe Getty]

That's a whole reason for federalism, is to ensure that the government can't deprive you of your federal Bill of Rights protections. Of course, it can't go below that floor, but it can provide a higher level of protection. And most state constitutions do. They have protections like the privacy. We have a clause in the Arizona Constitution that protects your private affairs against the government intruding on it. The California Constitution has a privacy right in its Bill of Rights. So the state constitutions protect your rights more than the federal constitution does. And yet we always sit around talk about the federal First Amendment, and lawyers often forget even to make these arguments in court. And that's one of our missions at the Institute, the Goldwater Institute, is to try and emphasize that the importance of state constitutional protections that can often secure you against the federal government.

[Tim Sandifer]

Someday I hope you and I can sit on the bullet train from Palmdale to Gilroy and discuss these things.

[Joe Getty]

You know, it's so sad. It's so sad. California history is, if you read California, it's nothing but the taxpayer being screwed by the railroads. In 1850, in 1890, in 1910, it's the same story. And here we are in the 2000s and California taxpayers are being screwed by the railroads all over again. And this time it's the progressives who think it's a great idea.

[Jack Armstrong]

Tim Sandifer is the vice president for legal affairs at the Goldwater Institute. Tim, as long as we're on the topic and you passed on my colorful Rob Bonta query, Jack and I have called the continuation of the horrific mountainous squandering of taxpayer dollars on the it'll never be a bullet train train the most egregious failure of democracy we have ever seen. How is it briefly, from what you've observed, that the people of California have been unable to stop this vampire?

[Joe Getty]

Well, the complicated answer is what a phenomenon economists call rent seeking, which is that when the government can take a bunch of money from a large number of people and then give it to a small number of people, the people who receive it, the small number of people who get that money, they have a huge incentive to lobby the government for more. Whereas the average taxpayer, they only lose a dollar or two per year. It's not worth them to spend a lot of time rallying against what the government is doing. They call that concentrated benefits and dispersed costs. And it creates this one way road sort of where the government is always going in the direction of more and more wealth redistribution because there's all this lobbying in favor of it from the few people who benefit from it and there's not a lot of law being against it by the people who suffer from it. And that explains not just the bullet train fiasco, but all sorts of different regulatory welfare state system. You know my friend Josh Thompson at the Pacific Legal Foundation, a few years ago he calculated that it would actually be cheaper to take every person in California, buy them a plane ticket to Japan, fly them to Japan, buy them a ticket on their bullet train and then fly them back than it would to complete the California bullet train. And that was 10 years ago. It's gotten worse. Oh, by a lot is pathetic. It's just so sad, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

You could probably get them a nice plate of sushi and a sex bot while they're over there in Tokyo. Tim Sandifer from The Goldwater Institute. Tim, always Great. Stay in touch. Anytime you got something that's. That's hot, call us. Don't wait for us to call you.

[Joe Getty]

Absolutely. Thanks for having me back, guys.

[Jack Armstrong]

Always a pleasure.

[Tim Sandifer]

I can just picture Tim and I whisked along at high speed on the bullet train from Gilroy to Palmdale discussing the Constitution.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's a beautiful dream because we have. And that's it. That's exactly what it is, a dream.

[Tim Sandifer]

Because we have an important appointment in Palmdale, but we need to get back to Gilroy the same day.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, you laugh to keep from crying, huh?

[Tim Sandifer]

We've got more on the way. Stay here. Thanks for taking my money.

[Unknown]

Armstrong and Getty. Wasn't that delicious?

[Jack Armstrong]

So good. Your bill, ladies.

[Tim Sandifer]

I got it.

[Unknown]

No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[Tim Sandifer]

I insisted first. Don't be silly.

[Unknown]

You don't be silly.

[Tim Sandifer]

People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit.

[Jack Armstrong]

Card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. Okay.

[Unknown]

Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Jack Armstrong]

Shoot. No.

[Tim Sandifer]

The Wells Fargo ActiveCash Credit Card. Visit wellsfargo.comactivecash Terms apply.

[Unknown]

Find home wherever you roam at Sinesta Es and Simply Suites. Stretch out and enjoy homelike amenities for however long you need. And when you're a Sonesta TravelPass member, staying at Sinesta Es and simply Sweets means earning points toward free nights, upgrades and more. Go to sinesta.com and book your stay and unlock their best rates with Sinesta Travel Pass. Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] terms and conditions apply. Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types. And it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products, including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49. 95 cents. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that [e-mail].

[Jack Armstrong]

Hey, everybody. So when you get asked, what is Odoo? What comes to mind? Well, I'll tell you. Odoo is a bit of everything. Odoo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth. But you know, some people also say that Odoo is like a magic beanstalk because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable. Ooh.

[Joe Getty]

But then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks. Whatever your business needs, manufacturing, accounting, HR programs, you can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company.

[Jack Armstrong]

So what does Odoo?

[Joe Getty]

Well, Odoo is a bit of everything. Odoo is a fertilizer, magic beanstalk. Building blocks for business. Yeah, that's it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which means that Odoo is exactly what every business needs. Learn more and sign up [e-mail] that's O D O O. At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive.

[Tim Sandifer]

The hatchback.

[Jack Armstrong]

That took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust amica. Auto insurance.

[Tim Sandifer]

Amica.

[Jack Armstrong]

Empathy is our best policy.

[Tim Sandifer]

Harvard professor was fired for making up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Data in research on dishonesty. Dr. Francesca Gino says she's never been dishonest, adding, she's only being targeted because she's a black male.

[Tim Sandifer]

They must have had a picture of her there. She is a white female. Yes, that's true. And as we mentioned earlier, it is revealed that she made a million dollars a year. 5th highest paid person in Harvard.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Tim Sandifer]

And in her dishonesty studies, she was cheating.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, she's an expert in the field. That's true.

[Tim Sandifer]

That's true.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Tim Sandifer]

Exactly. What do you expect? So I wish I didn't have to be. I don't have to be vague about this, but it'd be kind to be vague because it would be better for the story and easier to understand. But. And you can probably guess if you've been listening for a long time, but two people in my orbit, very close orbit, have had panic attacks in the last couple of weeks. And did you know much about panic? Have you. Is anybody like close to you ever had a panic attack? Yeah, I'VE only known a few people in my life. It's very helpful to me, though, that the first person I ever knew that had a panic attack, that dealt with panic attacks was a really big, really tough guy. Because otherwise I would have a certain view of panic attacks. I know I would because I know my personality that it is for, you know, a certain type of personality. And he was. He was not that guy at all. I mean, he was a college football player, tough guy, bar fight guy. I mean, he was absolutely not the kind of guy. And he just started having them in his 20s and had no idea why and had to do a bunch of research on it and everything like that and, and how horrible they were. So. But, man, I've never had one. I've never come close to having one. I don't think I'm capable of one. I think there must be something in your brain chemistry or body chemistry or something that allows it to happen for some people and not others. It doesn't seem to be. Even according to the people I know who've had panic attacks, it doesn't seem to be situational. It happens. It can happen out of nowhere. It's not like you just got the news that your car is being repossessed or, you know, something that sets it off. It's more, at least in the cases that I know, maybe you have a different story. It's. It just can come out of nowhere.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, my, My experience with it by proxy is a little different.

[Tim Sandifer]

But I mean, really.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Tim Sandifer]

If you know anything but, like, what, what, what have you done that has worked for you? Text line 415295KFTC or 415295KFTC. One person I know went to the hospital because they thought they were dying, which is what it feels like when you have a panic attack is they give you lots of Benadryl. That's about all they do. And you wait for it to pass. And there's not a particularly, at least in the cases that I know of personally, not a particular, like, remedy for how to not have it again. So you get to live for the rest of your life kind of like a heart attack. You get to live for the rest of your life wondering if one's going to come out of nowhere again, which sounds awful.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I know there are coping mechanisms that you can. And awareness. Awareness helps a lot. If you can name precisely what's going on and understand it on a more scientific level. It makes it harder to get overwhelmed by it, or so I'm told.

[Tim Sandifer]

Well, if you feel like you can't breathe, that's got to be bad for minutes. Thinking you're going to suffocate to death and die for minutes sounds really horrible. I'm glad I don't have them and have never had one.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah, agreed.

[Tim Sandifer]

And I don't know if one out of a thousand people have panic attacks or one out of ten. I don't really have any idea on that. Maybe now at this point I should start looking into it since I've had no clue two people in my tight circle have one recently.

[Jack Armstrong]

Next hour, a gender bending madness update. The madness. It's still on the march. If you can't stick around or you don't get next hour, grab it via podcast. Subscribe to Armstrong and Getty on Demand Armstrong and Getty.

[Tim Sandifer]

Hey, we're Armstrong and Getty and I don't know if you know about Shopify. You do actually. If you've ever used our store like Armstrong and Getty T shirts and stuff like that, that's because of Shopify that we have that website. They're the platform platform so we can just concentrate on the funny T shirt.

[Jack Armstrong]

Starting your own business is intimidating, can be lonely because you have to wear so many hats. Shopify is there for you as a business partner to get you started. So helpful.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah, Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, they even enhance your product photography.

[Jack Armstrong]

And Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah, you can get the word out about your product like you've got a giant marketing team behind you and it's Shopify.

[Jack Armstrong]

Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com armstrong go to shopify.com armstrong from coast to coast, unlock.

[Unknown]

Adventure at Red Lion Hotels by Sinesta where restful sleep, friendly service and local knowledge awaits. Whether for business or pleasure, spend less and make more of every trip. When you sign up for the Sinesta Travel Pass, you'll get their best rates instantly. Go to sinesta.com to book your stay and unlock their best rates with Sinesta Travel Pass Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply. Millions of people have turned to Claude.

[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Get this Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives, but are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that after school treatment. Start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart Ugh.

[Tim Sandifer]

Come on.

[Unknown]

Why is this taking so long?

[Tim Sandifer]

This thing is ancient.

[Unknown]

Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 carbon ultralight.

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Unknown]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Tim Sandifer]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon.

[Unknown]

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[Jack Armstrong]

You can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. This is an iHeart podcast.