We Don't Need This Anymore!

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: We Don't Need This Anymore!
Date: August 26, 2025
Hosts: Jack Armstrong, (Joe Getty on vacation), with Katie and Michelangelo
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

---

Episode Overview

This episode blends classic Armstrong & Getty humor with candid conversation on tough topics—weight loss struggles, border security, summer cookout controversies, and the sobering scope of the drug trade. The episode features an extended, vulnerable discussion about dieting failures and the reality of maintaining weight loss, followed by a fascinating interview with former U.S. Border Patrol Chief Jason Owens. The lighthearted segments about summer barbecues and off-brand sodas give way to a serious exploration of migration, cartel power, and America's changing borders, culminating in discussion about historic drug busts and shifting substance use.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Headline Clickbait and “Horse in a Pit” Story

[00:27–01:12]

• Armstrong & Getty riff on a bland headline—“Horse rescued with crane after falling in pit”—and brainstorm more sensational alternatives.
  • “Total stud pulled out of dirty hole.” (B, 00:40)
  • Jack jokes: “Hung like a horse.” (A, 00:47)
• Sets up their irreverent tone for the episode.

---

2. Weight Loss: The Relentless Struggle

[01:12–13:04]

▸ Americans’ Unfulfilled Summer Weight-Loss Pledges

• Katie shares a CDC study: 49% of Americans hoped to lose 20 pounds before summer. (C, 01:12)
• Hosts note how unrealistic these goals are and the repetitive cycle of self-delusion.
  • “Half of Americans lie to themselves probably every year and say, ‘I'm gonna lose 20 pounds by the time summer starts.’” (B, 01:20)
• CDC suggests shifting goals from summer to holidays, claiming cold weather helps weight loss.
  • Jack: “What a bunch of crap... You’d have to radically change your lifestyle to lose 20 pounds.” (B, 02:53)

▸ Why Real Weight Loss is So Rare

• Only a handful of people lose significant weight and keep it off.
  • “I have known, I think, a total of three people in my entire life that lost a lot of weight and kept it off. Three total.” (B, 03:39)
• Science of “set point”: after weight loss, the brain triggers survival mode, metabolism slows, body prioritizes getting back to the old weight.
  • “It’s damn near impossible to lose weight and keep it off.” (B, 04:28)

▸ Katie’s Personal Story: The Yo-Yo Cycle

• Katie details her weight journey: lost and regained major weight twice. (C, 05:13)
• Her family history: weight struggles on all sides, possible genetics and lifestyle factors.
• At her heaviest: 210 lbs at 5'4". Now maintains 140–145 lbs. (C, 06:02, 06:21)
• Regained weight quickly after abandoning her routine.
  • “I totally dropped my routine. I thought, oh, I’d lost the weight. I’m good, you know... I threw my whole routine out.” (C, 06:30)
• Host echoes: “The body says we need to get back to that weight... It is crucial that we do everything we can to get back to that weight, because that is our survival weight.” (B, 06:48)

▸ Cheat Days, Fad Diets, and Habits

• Jack: “I don’t believe in cheat days. Never works for me. The cheat causes me to gain weight and I just... it’s just not worth it.” (B, 09:18)
• Katie manages strict routines Sunday–Thursday, cheat meals Friday/Saturday.
  • “The cheat meal, it’s only like one meal... It’s not like three meals in the whole day.” (C, 09:29)
• Jack uses intermittent fasting (five-hour eating window), acknowledges he still eats “crap.”
• Reflection on the difficulty of establishing and maintaining good habits.
  • “I hate that it’s so much easier to fall out of a good habit than it is to build one.” (C, 11:28)

▸ Memorable Moments

• “Hold my beer, watch me grow.” (C, 12:16)
• “It is unfair. God, why’d you do this?” (B, 12:23)
• Takeaway: The human body’s evolutionary adaptation to starvation is now counterproductive, but remains an enduring impediment to diet success.

---

3. Summer Backyard Barbecue Rules & Lighthearted Banter

[13:07–18:11]

▸ The Raisins in Potato Salad Debate & Off-Brand Sodas

• Jack plays clips and riffs on viral “Oh, Hell No” backyard BBQ song: “Raisins in the potato salad? Oh, hell no!” (14:51)
• Consensus: Raisins do not belong in potato salad (C, 14:51).
• Jokes about showing up at a neighborhood BBQ with off-brand sodas and chocolate cola, to general revulsion:

  “We drank something that tasted like Sprite and was in a green can, but it was not Sprite... I would not take [off-brand soda] to some sort of gathering while other people were there.” (B, 15:27)

▸ Bridging Racial & Class Barriers via Ribs

• “When you are black or white, the ribs will have you feeling right. Ribs, ribs, ribs, ribs. Oh, hell yes.” (15:54)
• BBQ food traditions as shared American ground.

---

4. Interview: Jason Owens, Former U.S. Border Patrol Chief

[18:15–30:43]

▸ History & Evolution of Border Security

• Owens describes the shift from a focus on Mexican migrant labor to a complex situation involving global migrants, cartel control, and drugs.
  • “The border has always been an issue... we didn’t pay as much attention to it. Back in the ‘90s... it was a very different mission because 9/11 hadn’t happened yet.” (A, 19:14)
• Past: mostly single adult Mexican males crossing for work.
• Now: more Central and South Americans, policy complexity, economic and safety factors.

▸ Cartel Control and Human Smuggling

• “Make no mistake about it, the cartels control everything that’s coming across illicitly across our borders. And that’s whether that’s people, illicit substances, whether that’s money, you name it.” (A, 22:18)
• Cartels have pivoted to fentanyl and human trafficking due to profitability and lower risk than drugs.

▸ Staggering Profits from Human Smuggling

• In just the Del Rio, TX sector, upwards of $30–35 million per week from human smuggling alone—over $1.5 billion annually in one sector. (A, 25:20)

  “You’re talking about an adversary that is well funded, unlimited resources, and nothing but time to figure out how to defeat whatever security measures we have in place.” (A, 25:21)

▸ Why the Mexican Government Struggles

• Owens describes the life-risking danger for honest officials: “The life we’re living down here is very different... at times, gun battles in the streets, people being murdered, dismembered. There are legitimate threats to their families.” (A, 26:15)

▸ The Canadian Border: Our Next Blind Spot?

• America’s northern (Canadian) border is twice as long as the southern, but receives a fraction of resources.
  • “There’s about 2,000 miles between us and Mexico, but there’s 4,000 miles of border between us and Canada... Actually, we share a coastal border with Russia because of Alaska.” (A, 27:22)
  • “Typically about 90% of our workforce is deployed on the southwest border.” (A, 28:36)
• Significant stretches have little surveillance or enforcement, creating concern about drugs, terrorism, and future vulnerabilities.

▸ The Unknowns in Border Security

• “There’s so much of the border that we don’t have persistent surveillance. We don’t know what’s coming across...” (A, 29:24)
• Owens leaves listeners with awareness that gaps in national awareness and physical security remain significant.

---

5. Drug Busts, Fentanyl Fears & Shifting Vices

[32:13–34:09]

• Coast Guard’s historic drug haul: 61,000+ lbs of cocaine, 23 million potentially lethal doses—enough to “fatally overdose the entire population of Florida.” (B, 33:13)
• Declining national drinking rates at a 90-year low, but unclear if this translates to less overall drug use.
• Katie observes some acquaintances have replaced drinking with marijuana.
  • “So that was a trade, one for the other?” (B, 33:35)
• Jack echoes concern from The Atlantic: “There’s no safe recreational drug use anymore... there’s so much money to be made by putting fentanyl in it.” (B, 34:09)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jack Armstrong: "You'd have to radically change your lifestyle to lose 20 pounds. People don't want to do that. That's just...The CDC needs to stop funding it." (02:53)

• Katie: "The way I gained it all back was I totally dropped my routine. I thought, oh, I'd lost the weight. I'm good, you know, I don't have to keep working out every day..." (06:30)

• Jack Armstrong: "It is unfair. God, why'd you do this?" (12:23)

• Jason Owens: "The cartels control everything that's coming across illicitly across our borders... theirs is a business, and they're looking at, how can I make money?" (22:18)

• Jason Owens: “In one sector... we estimated the cartels were pocketing upwards of $30, $35 million a week...That’s over $1.5 billion a year.” (25:20)

• Jack Armstrong: “Once you lose [your culture of low corruption], it's tough to turn it around.” (26:58)

• Jason Owens: "There's so much of the border that we don't have persistent surveillance. We don't know what's coming across..." (29:24)

• Jack Armstrong: "If a couple of guys with a backpack come across and set off a dirty nuke somewhere...all of a sudden the days of kind of having a porous border will be over." (31:16)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:27–01:12] Headline clickbait & “horse in a pit” riff
• [01:12–13:04] Weight loss discussion: CDC stats, science, personal stories
• [13:07–18:11] Summer BBQ rules, raisins in potato salad, off-brand sodas
• [18:15–30:43] Border Patrol Chief Jason Owens interview: border history, cartels, northern border
• [32:13–34:09] Coast Guard drug bust, fentanyl dangers, recreational drug risk
• [35:13–36:12] Final thoughts: Yo-yo dieting takeaways and drinking's effect on weight
• [36:21-end] Closing banter, show wrap

---

Tone and Style

The episode blends light comedic banter with sobering analysis, maintaining an approachable, conversational feel while delivering insight into American self-delusion (about health), the intractable challenges of border enforcement, and the dark realities of the drug trade.

---

For New Listeners

This episode is a perfect Armstrong & Getty experience: irreverent, honest, and wide-ranging. Listeners will find empathy for dieting struggles, rare behind-the-scenes border insight, and the kind of deadpan wit that’s made the show a staple for years.

---

Skip to These If Short on Time

• Weight loss science and personal stories: 04:28–09:29
• Barbecue rules riff: 13:47–17:44
• Jason Owens interview (borders, cartels): 18:15–30:43
• Drug bust news and drug use reflections: 32:13–34:09

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast broadcasting live.

[B]

From the Abraham Lincoln radio Studio at.

[A]

The George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[B]

If you want people to click on your news story, don't say, horse rescued with crane after falling in pit. Oh, my God. Internet, please. You invented clickbait. This is what you do. That's the best headline you could come up with? Let me help you out. Total stud pulled out of dirty hole.

[A]

Hung like a horse.

[B]

Pretty good. Bill Maher tips for writing headlines. So Katie came across this story, she started to tell it about all of our weight loss goals that a lot of us Americans had to start the summer. And I said, hold off, we need to talk to everybody. So lay it out for us. What's the deal?

[C]

So this is a study from the CDC, and according to them, 49% of us had a goal of losing £20 before summer arrived.

[B]

So half of Americans lie to themselves probably every year and say, I'm gonna lose 20 pounds by the time summer starts. That's why you can't.

[C]

You can't get into the gym for the first month of the year before you.

[B]

And, and I think, as we all know, try to lose weight. It's way more about the eating than it is everything else. It's, you got to change your eating a lot. But so half of us delude ourselves probably every year into thinking, this year, I, I'm going to lose 20 pounds, which is a lot. I mean, if you're 6, 4, 20 pounds is a lot. If you're 5, 3, it's really a lot. As a woman, you're not going to lose 20 pounds before summer. You're going to lose 20 pounds. So you can go out in your bikini or your tank top of your shorts or whatever. Anyway, how well did we do?

[C]

Well, they're saying at one to two pounds a week, that can take up to 10 weeks.

[B]

And that's good math right there. Two pounds a week for 10 weeks is 20 pounds. Thank you, CDC.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

You're the people that. You're the people that brought us stand six feet apart with that sort of math.

[C]

They're saying that not many people reach that goal. They're not giving you the exact percentage, but duh. You know, this is like the, the article, the title of this article should just be duh. If you didn't reach your goal. The CDC says, however, all is not lost. You should turn your summer plan into a holiday one, because health experts say that Cold weather makes your body work harder, which makes weight loss easier.

[B]

What a bunch of crap. I mean, that is, you know, technically true, but it's not going to have any effect on people's changing. You'd have to radically change your lifestyle to lose 20 pounds. Yeah, and people don't want to do that. That's just. The CDC needs to stop funding it. Yes. Michael, who wants to diet during the holidays? That's the worst time for me.

[C]

That's when I put on my weight.

[B]

Well, and if you weren't motivated to do something, to where you're gonna start wearing less clothes, like you're gonna be seen on the beach, you're definitely not gonna be motivated to lose your 20 pounds when you can cover it up with a hoodie and a sweater. Yes. Cover up the fluff. It's hoodie season.

[C]

It's cozy hoodie season.

[B]

I can just let her fly.

[C]

Give me those mashed potatoes.

[B]

I have known, I think, a total of three people in my entire life that lost a lot of weight and kept it off. Three total. I've known dozens of people that lost a lot of weight and then gained it back. And that's not a knock on anybody. It's just what happens. And we've talked about this before. We. This has only been known now for a few years, but unfortunately, if your body gets a set point on the weight, you lose that weight, your brain goes into survival mode. Oh, my God, we're gonna starve. And it starts hoarding those calories, turning them into fat, thinking it needs to do that to keep you alive, slowing down your metabolism to make sure you can keep weight on. I mean, it's. It's horrible, but that's what the human body does, so that's why it's. It's very, very, very. It's damn near impossible to lose weight and keep it off. You have done it, which I'm going to ask you about in a second. You did it. Our old producer Vince did it. I've seen pictures of him. He lost. Do you remember how much weight he lost? It was over £100. Yeah. And he's kept it off. And then I don't even remember who the third was. I might not even have three. I might have two in my whole life that lost a bunch of weight and kept it off. It's just really, really hard to do. It sucks that. That's the fact, but it just. So how. How did you do it? The losing part? I think most people get the keeping it off part. That's where the rubber meets the road or the milkshake meets the belly. How do you do that?

[C]

Well, and so I've been on the. On both sides of that. I've lost a significant amount of weight twice in my life.

[B]

Oh, really? So not just this one time?

[C]

Not just this one time. I did it once in my mid-20s because I got weight. I don't know if this is actually a thing, but, like, having to fight your weight runs on all sides of my family, generations. I mean, it's like, it's. Weight loss has been constantly a struggle. So I don't know if that's hereditary or something.

[B]

Definitely to a certain extent. And, you know, and then you also get, like, family lifestyles tied in with that too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I see at Starbucks a very big mom and a very big dad giving their little kid a big, giant milkshake.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Which may not be the best idea, but genetics definitely plays a role. At your heaviest, what was your height and weight?

[C]

My heaviest was 210 pounds. And I'm 5.

[B]

4, 5, 4, 2, 10.

[C]

You were 210 pounds when I started on the show.

[B]

You were. You carry it well.

[C]

Hey, thanks.

[B]

5, 4, 2, 10. And now. And then. Then how much did you now?

[C]

Now I'm 54 and floating between 140 and 145, which I'm totally happy with.

[B]

Yeah. Which is very, very normal. You look great. So there. There'd be no reason to lose weight from where you are now.

[C]

But the way I gained it all back was I totally dropped my routine. I thought, oh, I'd lost the weight. I'm good, you know, I don't have to keep working out every day like I was. I can skip a couple days here and there, you know, and I do. I have my cheat days now. But I was. I. I threw it out. I threw my whole routine out.

[B]

Well, if the body worked the way we all thought it did. So you're like, you know, you're cruising along. Whatever weight you are, you aren't gaining weight. I'm. I'm overweight or fat, if you want to use that word. I'm fat, but I'm not gaining weight, eating the way I'm eating. So you think I lose all the weight and then I'll go back to just eating the way I was eating before, where I wasn't gaining weight. But that's not the way the body reacts. No, the body says we need to get back to that weight. It is crucial that we do everything we can to get Back to that weight, because that is our survival weight. So it hoards the calories, slows down your metabolism until it gets you back to that weight, which is really an awful thing about reality.

[C]

It's not fair, which my mom would slap me for saying that just now.

[B]

It is. It isn't fair, given our modern lifestyles to where we're sitting at a desk and food being yummy and cheap. I don't know if they'll ever come up with a hack to that, to where you can change your. The structure of your genetics to where that doesn't happen anymore. Obviously we have Ozempic and all these other new drugs out there, but anyway, so you. How long did it take you to gain back the weight? I've seen it happen shockingly fast. I'm not going to mention a co worker we had. We've had a couple of co workers, actually, who lost so much weight and looked fantastic and it seemed like it was weeks before it came back. I mean, it was shockingly fast.

[C]

It's. It seemed like weeks. And I also felt like I looked in the mirror and had like an OS moment. Like, what the hell? When did this happen? Like, I didn't even see it myself. But I'd say it probably took two and a half to three years for it to come all the way back for. And I came back. Oh, I came back bigger and better than ever, baby. I was 20 pounds heavier than I was. Like, the first time I was big, I was 190. Then I lost it all. And then I came back and said, hold my beer. I'll be 210. Watch me go.

[B]

Watch me go.

[C]

Yeah, but I wasn't anywhere very fast, though, considering my size.

[B]

But, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen that and I've heard that from people that you see you lose all that weight, you gain it back, and then you end up bigger than you were before.

[C]

God, that's the most miserable feeling on the planet, too. I'll bet, because you're like, I did all this work, and now I'm back where I was or worse than where I started and older.

[B]

Right? Older. That it is unfair. I mean, I don't know who you're complaining to. The.

[C]

The milkshake gods.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. The milkshake gods. It is incredibly unfair that it works that way.

[A]

I.

[B]

So I don't believe in cheat days because. Never works for me. The cheat causes me to gain weight and I just. It's just not worth it. But you make cheat days work.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, well, so Drew And I. We will usually say screw it on Fridays or Saturdays, sometimes both, depending on how we're feeling. But Sunday through Thursday, it is strict gym, regular diet at all times. But. And the cheat meal, it's only like one meal. It's not like three meals in the whole day kind of a thing.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Our old producer, Sean, his joke used to be about Tom Brady, his cheat day, as he looks at a picture of a strawberry. Yeah, right.

[C]

What is a cheat day for you?

[B]

I. I try not to, but you.

[C]

Were, because you have like a quarter pounder from McDonald's like, twice a week. So I don't understand.

[B]

Yeah, well, I'm an intermittent faster, so it's just about the.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

I only eat between for five hours, and I kind of eat crap during those five hours, but I only eat five hours.

[C]

And you're also the most active person I know, so that.

[B]

I am. I am pretty active. But if I ate healthy, which I'm not probably going to, I'd probably really look fantastic. I'd walk around shirtless all the time. But I just.

[C]

Okay, don't eat healthy because no one needs that.

[A]

Yeah, that'd be quite a treat.

[B]

I. It's tough for everybody to be honest with themselves. I mean, that 50 of people saying they're going to lose £20 by the summer. Almost nobody is going to. I mean, like, almost nobody. If 1% of people did, I'd be shocked. Including me. It's just. You're not going to. We're not going to. Because you have to radically change your life so much. And just people just plain aren't going to. I don't know how we delude ourselves like this. And we do over and over and over again, whether it's, you know, you buy a cello and all of a sudden you're going to practice the cello an hour every day until you become a cellist or you're. You're going to start going to the gym every day or you're gonna stop it. Just stop eating the way just. We aren't. Most of us are not going to change, including me. It's just the way we're built. I don't know. I don't know what you can do about that.

[C]

And I hate that it's so much easier to fall out of a good habit than it is to build one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, to build that routine. Okay, I'm gonna eat this, this, this. I'm gonna go to the gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday. It is so much harder to build that. Than it is to say, forget it.

[B]

Well, I always say, and I. I have found this to be true, that habits are hard to break. Good habits and bad habits. But it does seem to be easier to break a good habit than it is to break a bad habit. Like, I stopped chewing my nails finally after a life. It was hard. And now, now it disgusted me and I don't do it anymore. But it was hard to do. Falling out of the habit of working out or eating better would be easy to break.

[C]

Doing that, so good at that. It's actually one of my talents.

[B]

Hold my beer, watch me go or watch me grow.

[C]

Pick one.

[B]

Oh, man. It is unfair. God, why'd you do this?

[C]

Yeah, man.

[B]

It's actually evolutionary. I mean, probably more human beings have starved to death than any other cause of death in the history of humanity. And so our body thinks, oh my God, we're going to starve. We need to hoard all these calories in case there's not a good, you know, wheat harvest or we can't find that elk herd this year or whatever.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But we don't need that anymore. Evolution. God. Or whoever. We don't need this anymore. Anyway, do you have any thoughts on any of this? We'd love to hear from you. Also, one of the biggest drug busts of all time happened just the other day. Details on that are quite astounding. And other stuff on the way.

[A]

Armstrong and Getty.

[B]

Start with the guy who's annoyed at the city council meeting about bike noises. Let's start there.

[C]

I really just came up here to say that you're either going to hear.

[B]

Them where they're allowed to be or.

[C]

You'Re going to hear them where they're not allowed to be. Thank you for the entertainment. All right, is that it for public comment? Anyone else? If there's further disruption, we're gonna have to ask you to leave.

[B]

That's. That's a pretty good two stroke motorcycle impersonation.

[C]

Yeah, that wasn't bad.

[B]

If you don't know anything about dirt bikes, there are frozen four stroke dirt bikes which just sound like a regular motor. And there are two stroke dirt bikes which sound like that. The really high pitch. Those are two stroke and they are hard to be around. And if you have those anywhere near you, you will lose your mind. So I don't know what town that was. What was the other thing I wanted to get on this was let's. Let's just stay silly for a little bit. Let's do the whole rules for summertime backyard barbecues let's go through these one at a time. All right. Rules for summertime backyard barbecues. What number is that? 12, 13, 14. Hear me out. Raisins in the potato salad. Oh, hell no. Raisins in the potato salad. Oh, hell no. They don't deserve all the hate. They just dehydrated grapes. Raisins and the potato salad. Okay, so agreed, by the way. What?

[C]

I said agreed, by the way. Don't put raisins in potato salad.

[B]

What?

[C]

Heathen.

[B]

Are you okay? I was just about to say so. This apparently is a controversial issue. Whether or not you have raisins in your potato salad.

[C]

It's a thing. And it shouldn't be, but it is.

[B]

Okay. I don't.

[C]

Hansen says it's a white person.

[B]

Foul.

[C]

Yeah, that's. That's a white person. My bad.

[B]

Really? I don't think I would mind. I don't. I don't know if I've ever had potato salad with raisins in it, but I think I would think that's interesting, Jack.

[C]

You will. You will mind. You will mind. They don't belong in there.

[B]

So is the rest of it just more of that same song? I don't know.

[C]

Let's find out.

[B]

But hear me out. Off brand soft drinks. Oh, hell no. Off brand soft drinks. Oh, hell no. Mountain thunder river, too. Save yourself a $2, old friend. Soft drinks. That's funny. Yeah. I grew up in an off green. Off brand soft drink family. We drank something that tasted like Sprite and was in a green can, but it was not Sprite. We drank. I think it said cola on the can and it tasted like Coke or Pepsi, but it was off brand. So we. We in orange. I think we had orange cola and then something that was like lemonish. Yeah. And. And clear. And so. But. And while I would give those to my kids, I would not take them to some sort of gathering while other people were there. Off brand soft drinks. Oh, hell no. I agree with the guy completely. That's pretty funny. Okay, and one more here. We got. We gotta find. Yeah, I don't gotta be in the middle somewhere. Ribs. Oh, hell yes. Ribs, ribs, ribs. Oh, hell yes. When you are black or white the ribs will have you feeling right. Ribs, ribs, ribs, ribs. Oh, hell yes. There you go.

[C]

That's. So to set it, the first song was the white guy singing about the raisins. The second gone song, or the second part was the black guy singing about the off brand soda. And then they met in the middle at ribs.

[B]

Off brand soda. Oh, hell no. Am I the only one who's ever had off brand soda? No. Me too. Y' all grew up old money. You've had off brand soda? Oh, yeah, we had. We. We drank. There was something. My mom got it. The, like the food Giant or whatever issue which buy this stuff. It was called chocolate pop, too. It was chocolate soda. There was even a fudge. Oh, that was horrific.

[C]

Yeah, that sounds awful.

[B]

My brother liked it, but I never did. But, yeah, we had cola. We had lemon, which was Sprite 7Up knockoff, and then orange.

[C]

You should show up to the barbecue with raisins in your potato salad and a chocolate cola.

[B]

Yes. We're actually having a cul de sac party for the first time since I've lived in this new neighborhood. So I will bring off brand soda and see how it goes over among these people. We're gonna talk to a guy who knows more about the border than practically anybody you'll ever come across. And how about Canada's border? Did you know that's a problem? Among other things on the way. Stay with us.

[C]

Armstrong and Getty talk to the former.

[B]

Border patrol grand poobah. 26th Chief of the United States Border Patrol. Now retired, Jason Owens joins the Armstrong and Getty show this morning. Jason, how are you today?

[A]

Good, Jack. I've never been called the Grand Tuba before. Thank you for that.

[B]

The big cheese. So what years were you the guy in charge?

[A]

So I was. I was the chief of the Border Patrol from the summer of 23 until March of 25.

[B]

Okay. What's. Do you know what the history is of our border enforcement? I mean, did we used to have much stricter border enforcement and people just chose not to come?

[C]

Or.

[B]

Or did the economics change to where people want to come across? And so we now we need more border agents. I actually don't know that.

[A]

The whole dynamic has changed. It's not just about the. The traffic that we're seeing, but it's about the public's awareness and attention to the issue. The border has always been an issue in some form or fashion. It's just that we didn't pay as much attention to it. You know, back in the 90s when I started, you know, the Border Patrol was a small agency that not many people knew about. We only had a few thousand agents and predominantly focused on immigration along the southwest border with Mexico. Nobody really gave any thought to the economic migration. Most of the folks came from Mexico. They'd come up and they'd try and find work. They'd send remittances home and during the holidays they'd go back home, visit their family, and then they'd try again as soon as the holidays were over. And that's really the extent of, you know, what was border security during that time. And throughout the, the ages, we've had those surges where we've had very busy times. And I'm sure, you know, being out there in California, you know, back in the 90s, San Diego was incredibly busy. But it was a different demographic that was crossing then. It was, it was a very different mission because 911 hadn't happened yet and our awareness of the threats that are out there didn't exist.

[B]

In what way was it a different demographic that was, was crossing back then versus now?

[A]

Well, like I said, predominantly you had a lot of folks from Mexico and they were mostly single adult males and they were coming forth to define jobs in the US and send money back home and they would go home to their families. Well, over time that started to shift because people started to see that, well, the situation got a little bit rougher in Mexico. You had people from Central and South America that were, you know, interested in coming up as well. And people started to see that it was more difficult for us to remove people from the country if they didn't come from Mexico. Most of the time, if you caught Jason Owens from Mexico and you said, hey, do you want to go before an immigration judge and see if you're going to be deported or if you can stay here? Most of the time they would say, you know what? I'm going to voluntarily return and skip all of that, knowing that it's probably going to turn right around and try and cross again. And eventually they made it because of the sheer, you know, how big the border is and how few agents we had. Well, you can't do that with folks from other countries because Mexico is under no obligation to take those folks back if they're not citizens of Mexico. And we don't have those, those processes and procedures in place with these other countries in many cases, and in many cases it's a lot more expensive than just walking them across the border to the authorities in Mexico.

[B]

He also, I don't. There is no place in the country you were going to get free health care as someone here illegally not that many years ago, and now he can. So there are different magnets rather than just jobs. We also didn't have anything like fentanyl or meth way back in the day. How much different has that made the drugs that are available and our appetite for them here in the United States.

[A]

Well, and talking about how the dynamic has changed along the border, make no mistake about it, the cartels control everything that's coming across illicitly across our borders. And that's whether that's people, whether that's, you know, illicit substances, whether that's money, you name it. And so, you know, back in the. Again in the early 2000s and 90s, and, you know, it was all about marijuana, and you had cocaine and. And you had some meth cases and the like, and. And heroin. Those are the traditional narcotics that we would come across. And of course, you know, the world's view on marijuana has changed, and so the cartels adapted, and they look for the next best thing, because at the end of the day, theirs is a business, and they're looking at, how can I make money off of, you know, what it is I'm doing? Well, they took a pivot to two things. Number one, fentanyl started becoming much more prominent because of how potent it is and how easy it is to make comparatively. And then also they got into the people business. They got into human trafficking, because for the longest time, there was not as much risk associated. People would be a little more sympathetic to folks that were smuggling people across the border than they would somebody bringing across, you know, kilos of cocaine. And so they. They shifted to the product that was going to be in more demand and where they stood to make the most money with less risk. That's essentially been with the cartel's business model has been and how it has impacted the dynamic along particularly the southwest border.

[B]

That's interesting. So that doesn't surprise me. But you say the cartel. Nothing's really happening without their approval?

[A]

Absolutely not. And there's. There's different ones that are out there. And if you talk to anybody in the national security space, especially with CDP and border patrol, they will tell you that that is our true adversary. The smugglers, the criminals, the cartel members, those are the one that we face off against every single day. And when we go out there to help secure the border, that is who we have in mind. The immigration issue, it's an important one. We have to have law and order. But the national security aspect of border security is really what is first and foremost on our minds, because that represents by far the greatest threat to our country.

[B]

And the Mexican government just can't get control of those cartels. Apparently.

[A]

It's a tough situation. They, you know, if you think about an adversary like the cartels, that the amount of money that they make, and I'll use Del Rio sector in Texas as an example because I was the, I was the sector chief there before I took over as chief of the Border Patrol. And that's a, that's a pretty remote small sector. And of course, back a couple years ago, that was front and center with Eagle Pass and Uvalde and the Haitian, the Haitian migration and. Well, that little sector just off of human trafficking alone, we estimated that the cartels were pocketing upwards of 30, $35 million a week.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

You do the, you do the math. And that's not narcotics. That's nothing but human smuggling in one sector of nine across the, the Southwest border. You know, for. And again, my Oklahoma Math, that's over $1.5 billion a year in one sector that they're making. So you're talking about an adversary that is well funded, unlimited resources, and nothing but time to sit there and think about how they're going to defeat whatever security measures we have in place. And part of that is destabilizing the communities and the governments in Mexico so that they can maintain a foothold and keep an advantage. And that's been a persistent problem for our partners over in Mexico for four years.

[B]

Yeah, it's a very gentle way of saying it. Destabilize the communities, as in, if you're a, the cops in that town, you're gonna die if you try to take them on.

[A]

Absolutely. And I would, I would have conversations with my counterparts. These, they would be the Sedan Generals or they would be the colonels over Samar, and they would tell you, it's not that we don't want to respond or we don't want to help out. It's just that the life we're living down here is very different. You know, they, they literally deal with, at times, gun battles in the streets, people that are being murdered, dismembered. There are, there are legitimate threats to their families. They go out there and do the job. So you have to, you have to respect and, and empathize with the situation that they're in. So I don't always buy into. Oh, it's just, it's just a matter of corruption. No, there's, there's a lot of factors that get taken into account that I think any of us in that situation would be faced with.

[B]

Yeah, culturally, that's why we've got to hang on to our culture of, of not having very much corruption. Because, man, once you lose that, it's tough to turn it around. That's rough. So talking about talk, talking about the border when we just say the border, we all assume the border between us and Mexico, but you say there's a lot more going on between the United States and Canada, now the longest undefended border in the world.

[A]

It was always funny to me every time I would talk to a member of Congress or staffers or in many cases reporters, and it still didn't get covered as much as I would have liked. People forget that yes, there's about 2,000 miles between us and Mexico, but there's 4,000 miles of border between us and Canada if you don't count that vertical slash that Alaska shares, which is another 1500 miles. And oh, by the way, we have thousands of miles of coast and most people don't think about it in these terms. We actually share a border, a coastal border with Russia because of Alaska. So we have some legitimate things to think about in vulnerabilities that exist along our multiple borders and the threats, both state and non state actors that are out there. That deserves a space in the discussion anytime we're talking about national security and especially border security. Because if you're going to resource an agency that's responsible for keeping us safe, you have to take into account all that they are responsible for and not just one piece that the mainstream media wants to focus on.

[B]

What percentage of border patrol is on the southern border versus the northern border? Do you have any idea?

[A]

Typically about 90% of our workforce is deployed on the southwest border. So if you can, you can do the math. Roughly 20,000 agents, depending on the season that we're in. You have 90% deployed down to the southwest border and the rest are on the northern border, our coastal sectors, and in many cases overseas in our attache offices.

[B]

Yeah, man, if it ever becomes a real problem, or maybe you're saying it already is, of things coming across the Canadian border. I remember when I drove into Calgary one time, or headed, I was headed up to Calgary, just crossing on a two lane highway in the middle of nowhere. There was basically nothing there. Showed him a driver's license and drove in. That's all there was to it. How much, how many drugs are coming across the Canadian border at this point? Do you have any idea?

[A]

Well, and that's, that's the million dollar question, so to speak, that we get asked a lot of times what's getting away? Now there's, there's what we catch and that's between us and the Office of Field Operations that works at the ports of entry. Ours is the job between the ports of entry. So there's what we actually catch what we may see and are not able to get to. But then there's that great void, that great unknown, and that exists even along the southwest border that a lot of people don't realize as well. There's so much of the border that we don't have persistent surveillance. We don't know what's coming across or what's going on because we're not out there. And we don't have the technology to. You know, in today's age, it's hard to imagine that there's actually still areas out there where there's, there's no cell coverage, there's no reception, and you need that for the technology to be, to be effective. So there's a lot of spaces out there. We don't have that situational awareness. And so we can't tell you with any level of certainty what's coming across, what's getting away. And that's one of the things I always said it keeps us up at night. It worries us because we know the potential. And you don't want to have something like that happen on your watch.

[B]

Yeah, man, that is true. Jason Owens, 26, chief of the United States Border Patrol Appreciate your time today. That was very interesting stuff.

[A]

Good talk to you, Jack. Thanks for having me.

[B]

You betcha. So I, first of all, when I first started going down into Mexico.

[A]

You.

[B]

Could just cross anywhere, anytime with just a driver's license and come back across. It was no big deal whatsoever. And I felt perfectly safe down there. Obviously, times have changed, and so Canada today is about where Mexico was 30, 40 years ago. I wonder if someday it'll be the same with Canada, where we have a really, really pretty heavy border presence and only a few places you can cross and lots of fencing and all that sort of stuff, because just you gotta stop drugs and stuff from coming across. And I remember Tom Friedman wrote this quarter of a century ago, it hasn't happened yet. Tom Friedman of the New York Times, he said everything will change with the border if a couple of guys with a backpack come across and set off a dirty nuke somewhere, which will probably happen someday, but if they trace it back to a border crossing, Mexico or Canada, all of a sudden the days of kind of having a porous border will be over and whatever amount of money needs to be thrown at it will happen. You know, I'm not looking forward to that happening, but I, I suppose it's inevitable at some point when you have 5, 000 miles of pretty much undefended border to our north Anywho, interesting topic. We will finish strong next.

[A]

Armstrong and Getty.

[B]

Today we are witness to the largest drug offload in Coast Guard history. A total of £76,140 of illegal narcotics. The £61,740 of cocaine represent 23 million potentially lethal doses. That's enough to fatally overdose the entire population of the state of Florida. Man, some of these drug busts are really quite amazing. That's huge. 23 million potentially lethal doses of illegal narcotics. 61, 000 pounds of coke. I, I don't know the what the popularity of cocaine is. I mean, I don't run in any circles where I would have the slightest idea. Versus pot. I mean, because with drinking down, we're at a 90 year low for drinking. 90 year low for drinking, which is astounding. Was it not tapering off for pot and coke and meth and fentanyl and whatever else you all derelicts are doing?

[C]

I know I have, I have a couple of acquaintances that have stopped drinking and are strictly stoners now.

[B]

Really? So that was a trade, one for the other?

[C]

Yeah, it was just one vice for something else.

[B]

You don't want to have to get up and pee. Is that the main reason?

[C]

That's a solid thought, you know, not to break the seal or whatever it's called.

[B]

Or whatever it's called. Yeah.

[C]

I don't know, I would think that with the headline after headline about fentanyl and it takes a, you know, the size of a piece of salt and all this and it could be mixed into anything that, that would deter you enough from any form of powdered anything.

[B]

Yeah, Joe's always talking about that. I think it was in the Atlantic, that big piece in the Atlantic about there's no safe recreational drug use anymore. Not that it was ever a good idea, but there was back in the day, if you were careful, you could find stuff that was probably not, you know, rat poison. It was actually cocaine. But now there's nothing that's safe out there because they, they there's so much money to be made by putting fentanyl in it. Right. Man, you are really risky. I agree with you. I'm surprised anybody's willing to do it with that risk out there. It's final thoughts, final thought. Here's your host for final thoughts because Joe is on vacation in England. Me, Jack Armstrong. How are you, Jack? I'm good. Let's get our first final thought from our technical director, Michelangelo Michael.

[C]

Our topic about weight loss this past hour was just. I could relate to the yo yo dieting.

[B]

Going up, then down, then up and down. I'm sure I'm going to keep on doing that. Yeah, it's frustrating, isn't it? That's why I don't believe in cheat days, because it's just I'm an all or nothing guy. First cheat, then I'm off to the races. That's the problem. Anyway, let's get a final thought from Katie. Katie, the news lady.

[C]

I'll just stick with that topic. Drinking is also another big problem for weight gain.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

If you're drinking your calories, it's a lot easier.

[B]

Slows down your metabolism.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

When you lost lots of weight both times, did you cut way back on drinking?

[C]

Oh, yeah. I, I would probably have like one at the bar. Maybe a week.

[B]

Huh?

[C]

Yeah, that's tough.

[B]

You don't eliminate all the fun stuff in life.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Drinking, cake. Pizza. Pizza, exactly.

[C]

Burgers. What the hell.

[B]

Some days I have a really good strict day and I think, okay, I had some nine grain bread with low fat, something else on it. What is the point of being alive?

[C]

Right?

[B]

What am I trying to do here? Armstrong and Getty wrapping up another grueling four hour work day. So many people to thank that work on the show here. Michael and Katie and Hanson. But also you listening. And if you'd like to hear any about anything we talked about today, you can probably find it at the website. Armstrong and Getty on demand. Also buy some merch there if you want to. If you want to rock the merch, we'll see you next time. God bless America.

[A]

Armstrong and Getty.

[C]

While Joe is away, Jack and Katie will play Michelangelo.

[B]

But now it's time to grow.

[C]

It's the end of the show, but it's not the end of our day. Our podcast stays on.

[B]

You'll need it to get along while we're on vacay. Download it now.

[C]

Armstrong and get it on demand.

[A]

Armstrong and Getty. This is an iHeart podcast.