We Need A Law About This?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand Episode Title: We Need A Law About This? Release Date: March 18, 2025 Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction to the Discussion

In the episode titled "We Need A Law About This?", hosts Armstrong and Getty delve into the complexities surrounding privacy in the digital age, specifically focusing on the ubiquitous nature of recording devices and their impact on personal interactions. The conversation is sparked by a viral incident involving a passenger on a flight, prompting a broader examination of societal and legal implications.

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Privacy and Recording in Public

Armstrong (03:17):
"So we gotta figure this out as a society, either morally and culturally or actually legally, where we are on the whole somebody whipping out their cell phone and recording you and then what they can do with it and all that."

The hosts begin by questioning the boundaries of privacy in public spaces. They discuss how the ease of recording has eroded traditional notions of personal privacy, making it challenging to navigate everyday interactions without the fear of being documented and disseminated online.

Joe (04:11):
"You cannot use someone's image and likeness for profit without their signing a release of some sort."

Joe emphasizes the legal restrictions surrounding the use of an individual's image for commercial purposes, highlighting the need for consent and the complexities that arise when recordings are shared without permission.

---

Case Study: The Plane Incident

Armstrong (05:41):
"Here's a news report version of this. [Jennifer Castro:]...she had to quit her job and was getting threats and couldn't walk down the street and emotional this and that and is suing the airline for allowing this to happen."

The discussion centers around a viral video from a flight in Brazil, where a woman refused to give up her seat to a child. The incident not only affected the passenger involved but also ignited a conversation about accountability and the repercussions of viral footage on an individual's life.

Joe (18:53):
"...if you do it and distribute it for the purpose of damaging a person's reputation and. Or financial well being, then you got a tort right there."

Joe introduces the concept of tort law as a possible recourse for individuals whose reputations and lives are adversely affected by such recordings, suggesting legal frameworks that could mitigate misuse.

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Legal and Ethical Considerations

Armstrong (08:07):
"It needs to be dealt with either ethically, morally, or legally."

The hosts explore potential solutions to the dilemma posed by pervasive recording, debating whether ethical guidelines, societal norms, or legal statutes should govern the use and distribution of personal recordings.

Joe (19:10):
"If you do it and distribute it for the purpose of damaging a person's reputation and. Or financial well being, then you got a tort right there."

Joe reiterates the possible legal actions individuals can take when their images are used maliciously, emphasizing the importance of intent in such cases.

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Influencer Dynamics and Social Media Impact

Katie (19:56):
"...someone dedicated to figuring out who people are in viral videos and doxing the hell out of them, putting them on display, their workplace, tagging their profiles and everything. And I think that type of shit should be illegal because you are ruining somebody's life."

Katie brings attention to the darker side of influencer culture, where individuals exploit viral moments to gain followers and monetize the misfortunes of others, often leading to severe personal consequences for those recorded.

Armstrong (20:27):
"Well, it's absolutely a weapon."

Armstrong characterizes recording devices as modern tools of intimidation and control, capable of significantly impacting an individual's reputation and personal life.

---

Concluding Thoughts

Armstrong (21:18):
"So the whole influencer thing. So I'm like a shoe company and I'm going to pay her to wear my shoes, thinking, I'll sell more shoes now."

The conversation wraps up by reflecting on the influencer economy, questioning the ethics of monetizing personal stories and the fine line between genuine social media presence and manufactured online personas.

Joe (22:19):
"If you do it and distribute it for the purpose of damaging a person's reputation and. Or financial well being, then you got a tort right there."

Joe reiterates the necessity for legal mechanisms to protect individuals from the potentially ruinous effects of unauthorized recordings and their distribution, advocating for a balanced approach to privacy in the digital era.

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Key Takeaways

• Erosion of Privacy: The ease of recording in public spaces poses significant challenges to personal privacy.
• Legal Frameworks Needed: Existing laws may not sufficiently address the complexities introduced by ubiquitous recording devices, necessitating new legal considerations.
• Ethical Responsibility: Beyond legal issues, there is a moral imperative to respect individuals' privacy and consent.
• Influencer Culture Dilemmas: The commodification of personal moments for social media influence raises ethical concerns about exploitation and accountability.
• Potential Solutions: A combination of ethical guidelines, societal norms, and legal reforms may be required to navigate the evolving landscape of privacy and recording.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Armstrong [03:17]:
  "Do we need a law about this?... somebody whipping out their cell phone and recording you and then what they can do with it and all that."

• Joe [04:11]:
  "You cannot use someone's image and likeness for profit without their signing a release of some sort."

• Katie [19:56]:
  "I think that type of shit should be illegal because you are ruining somebody's life."

• Armstrong [20:27]:
  "Well, it's absolutely a weapon."

• Joe [22:19]:
  "If you do it and distribute it for the purpose of damaging a person's reputation and. Or financial well being, then you got a tort right there."

---

This episode of "Armstrong & Getty On Demand" offers a thought-provoking exploration of the intersection between technology, privacy, and societal norms, urging listeners to consider the implications of a world where recording is omnipresent and easily exploited.

Transcript

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[Armstrong]

Do we need a law about this? It's one more thing. Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe]

One more thing.

[Armstrong]

So we gotta figure this out as a society, either morally and culturally or actually legally, where we are on the whole somebody whipping out their cell phone and recording you and then what they can do with it and all that. Joe, who almost went to law school, is going to at some point, say, there's no expectation of privacy. Privacy, but in a public place.

[Joe]

You've saved me the trouble.

[Armstrong]

But that was, that was. That meant different. That meant something different. When only if you were wanting to spend $3,000 on a. On a moving video camera and carry it around, were you capable of videoing anybody now. Anybody. Everybody can video everybody all the time. There was no reason to care about that particular rule.

[Joe]

Well, and that has more to do with the government, you know, surveilling you than anything. You cannot use someone's image and likeness for profit without their signing a release of some sort.

[Armstrong]

Did you know there. I think there are 30 states that are one party consent states for recording someone. Most states are not that. Not like California, where, like, if we're gonna. We can't call somebody up on the phone like you could in the old days on radio, which was a lot of fun. Call somebody up and put them on the air without them knowing it or record them without them knowing it.

[Joe]

That's actually a different law. Those are two different questions. Yeah, airing somebody's a different question.

[Armstrong]

How about just recording them? Just recording?

[Joe]

Yeah. Yeah, what about it?

[Armstrong]

I don't think you should be able to record me without me knowing it. I don't care who you are.

[Joe]

No. Although the counter argument is, like, if somebody's threatening you or defrauding you or committing any other than there are dozens of examples. You're not allowed to get the proof of it that you need.

[Armstrong]

Katie, I.

[Katie]

So I have a question back to what you said, Joe, where you can't make a profit off of a video of somebody else.

[Joe]

Mm. Theoretically. I mean, like if you're in a documentary, they got to have everybody's got to sign a release, right. Of some sort. Although I don't know the fine print on that. So, you know, don't start doing a documentary on my say.

[Katie]

So I'm just thinking about like those videos that go viral, somebody to talk about.

[Armstrong]

So let's, let's do this and then we can get into the specifics because we're going to talk about this story, which went viral a week or so ago. Maybe you've heard the outlines of it of a woman who wouldn't give up her seat on a plane to a child and then some other woman took out her phone and recorded it and the woman who wouldn't give up her seat became the bad person. Here's the, here's a news report version of this.

[Jennifer Castro]

This plane passenger is being publicly berated by a furious mom for refusing to swap seats with her toddler. Jennifer Castro was filmed calmly ignoring the angry mother's request after she boarded the Gol Airlines domestic flight in Brazil in December. When she boarded the plane, Jennifer found a toddler sitting in her window seat and asked him to move, which caused the tot to start crying. When she refused to move, the mother pulled out her phone and started filming Jennifer and said, I'm recording your face. This is disgusting. It's the 21st century and people have no empathy for children.

[Armstrong]

So what, what happens from here is the mom posts the video of this awful human being who in her words, who wouldn't give up her seat to the 3 year old who wanted to sit at the window seat. Got to admit, I probably would have given up my seat, but you don't have to posts it. It ends up with 2.1 million views as of this, the woman who wouldn't give up her seat gets, you know, outed the way that these people do and says she had to quit her job and was getting threats and couldn't walk down the street and emotional this and that and is suing the airline for allowing this to happen. I don't know how the airline comes in. Yeah, okay, and then, but, but just in general, if I have the worst day of my life and what would be a good example? Okay, yell at a waiter at a restaurant. Not cool, shouldn't do it. But I do it and somebody gets it on video and posts it and I mean it materially affects my life. Is that just a world we're going to live in forever?

[Joe]

Now, number one, throw your meal on them. If you're going to go that far, just throw that meal right into their chest. Okay? Like Gordon Ramsay, like we were talking about the other day. Just push it right into their chest. They're wearing a white shirt. Leave a mark. Wow. Yeah, I don't, I, I don't. Are you talking ethics, law?

[Armstrong]

Well, it would need. It needs to be dealt with either ethically, morally, or legally. All right, but if we're just going to live in a world where your worst moment is up for grabs for anybody who has their phone out and they can just make you look like an ass clown to the whole world, affect your reputation, maybe your kids at school or your job, everything is up for grabs all time. Are we gonna put some sort of limits on this? Can we. Do we turn against somehow, do we turn against people who whip out their phones and record this stuff? I doubt we can ever get there.

[Joe]

Yeah, well, you yourself have said, as have I, we need more shaming for aberrant behavior in the modern world, not less.

[Armstrong]

Right? But yeah. Well, let me try to think of an example.

[Joe]

Well, yeah, this is, this is the problem. People with bad judgment get to do it to whatever it is.

[Armstrong]

Right. So I do believe that we need more shaming, not less. For like, you know, you're, you're. You should be ashamed of begging for money. I think you should be ashamed. You should really want to not have to beg for money.

[Joe]

Right. Shame. But you should have your hair cut from your head and be paraded naked through town with a lady shaking a bell at you and shouting, shame. I agree completely.

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[Armstrong]

But shaming people for really just human nature, which is everybody loses their temper sometimes or whatever.

[Katie]

Yeah, but in public like that, are.

[Armstrong]

You going to, are you going to, are you going to hope to like never lose your temper in public ever in your life? Have you never lost your control?

[Joe]

Yes, exactly. Quick, videotape them, Katie, now.

[Katie]

On it.

[Armstrong]

I don't know, I don't think I actually have. I don't think I have an instance of ever losing my temper in public that I would be like horrified to have on video. I don't think that's ever happened. So I'm using a, I'm using a hypothetical that doesn't even apply to me.

[Katie]

So that this takes me back to my question is if it racked up that many views, whoever posted that video got some monetary blowback from whatever.

[Armstrong]

They are an influencer, or at least now they're an influencer. So they got, they weren't, they weren't an influencer before, but they become an influencer because they got, you know, millions of followers.

[Katie]

And if millions of people go to their page and start clicking on their other content now, it's a cash cow based off of this chick's situation on this plane.

[Joe]

So the question before me then is if something not for commercial purposes inadvertently makes money in Brazil and it happened in public, what are the laws on this emerging field? I don't have a fucking idea.

[Armstrong]

Well, we gotta figure this out. I think. We can't, we can't just operate this way. So this woman, so she gets on the plane. This is a, the sort of plane that's got assigned seats and there's a little kid in your seat and you say, hey, that's my seat. Can I sit there? You have a window seat. You paid extra for a window seat. And the kids get a little slumber in, huh? The three year old starts crying because the three year old really wanted that seat.

[Katie]

Mom should have paid for it.

[Armstrong]

Mom asks, would it be okay if my 3 year old sat in that seat? Like I said, I being a dad and have had, you know, kids on planes, not the easiest thing in the world. I probably would have given up the seat. But you're not obligated to. I don't think it should be a, you know, ruin your life for a while moment. If I say no, no, I'm gonna, I'm Gonna stay in this seat. And then they whip out their phone, say, you're really not gonna give up your seat to this kid?

[Joe]

No, they're the dick. They're the a hole, as the Internet says. Now was this a so we can sit together situation or was it just the kid prefers the window seat?

[Armstrong]

Yes, the latter.

[Joe]

No, no, no, no.

[Armstrong]

There's a.

[Joe]

There's a seat number on the kid's ticket. Put their ass in it.

[Katie]

Yeah, yeah, well, that's.

[Armstrong]

If you just said it like that, man, you'd have really gone viral. You'd be hounded all across the country because worked up to that, the Internet decided that the woman who wouldn't give it up her seat is the bad person. That's what the Internet decided by far.

[Joe]

Screw the Unplug the Internet. It's evil. Michael, you're saying something my mom or dad would have said. No, you got to get in that seat. This nice person, that's their seat.

[Katie]

You come and sit over here.

[Armstrong]

Right?

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Katie]

Gosh, I wish my parents would have videoed their last flight. They were taking first class from San Francisco back to Boise, and apparently the couple in front of them had a three year old that they were soft parenting. This kid was. This kid was slapping her dad and one didn't want the Cheerios but wanted the Nutter Butters and all. And, and she's screaming at the top.

[Armstrong]

What age?

[Katie]

Kid, like two or three. And the reason the age is totally relevant because the, the mom grabs the daughter and puts her in her lap and goes, how do you feel right now?

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[Katie]

Let's get you talk about your feelings and my dad's. My dad is texting me. She's two, you know.

[Joe]

Yeah, share your feelings.

[Katie]

Yeah, share your.

[Joe]

I don't know, angsty, conflicted on we. Exactly. I just. Dad, there are times. Mom, I just. I don't know why I bother.

[Armstrong]

Yeah, that's. That's a tough one. Because I mean, kids when they're little and if you got a special needs kid, they can act all kinds of different ways and you're just trying to get to your destination. So.

[Joe]

I don't.

[Armstrong]

I don't know. But I did see one, one time with some teenagers who were back talking their dad and I could not believe the shit that dad took from these two teenagers. I would have drug them off the plane. I don't care what our plans are. Yeah, we ain't going. We're waiting for the next plane back home. Or if this is our home, we're Staying home. I can't believe he put up with that. And he threatened several times. Oh yeah, I'm going to take away your car. Go ahead, Dad, I don't care. And then kids would laugh, just laughing at him. I just, I was, it was, it was. I was embarrassed for this dude.

[Joe]

He was trying to end the trip as quickly as possible. I get it.

[Armstrong]

I would have gone to great length and expense to drag their asses off that plane. I don't care how. To what end, huh?

[Joe]

To what end?

[Armstrong]

You're not suffering, you're not getting what you want. That would be my end. And what they wanted was to go wherever they were going.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. I'm just thinking, if they were going home, what, are you going to prolong the trip?

[Armstrong]

Put them in jail? Put them in a orphanage?

[Joe]

Wow. I hit the emergency slide and pushed them off.

[Armstrong]

Yes, put them in the overhead compartment.

[Katie]

There you go, Michael.

[Joe]

Call up one of those boot camps.

[Armstrong]

But exactly, exactly. But anyway, to my original point, you guys are making the argument for me. You think the woman who didn't give up her seat didn't do anything wrong? Correct. She had her life turned upside down. We have to come up with a mechanism to keep this from happening, don't we? In the modern world where everybody's carrying around a video recorder.

[Joe]

Again, my understanding of Brazilian law is cursory at best. But if you do it and distribute it for the purpose of damaging a person's reputation and. Or financial well being, then you got a tort right there.

[Armstrong]

Wow. So that's, that's a good one. And you would almost always be posting it to damage the person's reputation.

[Joe]

Yeah, correct. Oh, yeah, that's practically assumed. I mean, what else are you going to do? I'm hoping this gets posted and in the next five minutes she becomes aware of the reaction and lets my kid look out the way. No, no, it's purely to hurt them.

[Katie]

See, there are accounts out there. That's this one guy. I'm not even going to say his name because I hate his existence. But he's dedicated to figuring out who people are in viral videos and doxing the hell out of them, putting them on display, their workplace, tagging their profiles and everything. And I think that type of shit should be illegal because you are ruining somebody's life.

[Joe]

My kid's going to law school right now. I'm going to tell her, look, I will finance your law office. What we're going to do is when people seek to damage people's reputation, unjustifiably because, you know, you gotta win the jury, generally, that's what we'll prosecute.

[Katie]

Yeah. Oh, bird flu.

[Joe]

Basically. That guy's using a cell phone as a weapon. Yeah, it's, you know.

[Armstrong]

Well, yeah, as a weapon because she whipped that out with the idea that, okay, you're going to be intimidated now that I'm videotaping you and give up the seat. So, yeah, it's absolutely a weapon.

[Katie]

And did you say she had a. She had a platform before she filmed this, or.

[Armstrong]

I don't think so. I think she became an influencer after she got the 2 million.

[Katie]

And she's attractive, so great.

[Armstrong]

That might have been.

[Katie]

Always the hot ones.

[Joe]

Sounds like a beast to me, Jack. Have you ever lost your temper in public and said, do you know who I am? I'm Internet famous. Or I guess she said, I'm Instagram famous. Oh, wow, that one.

[Katie]

Remember that?

[Armstrong]

If I ever had the words, do you know who I am? Come out of my mouth, I would be embarrassed to my core. I'd hang myself. What was I going to say about that? Do you know who I am? Instagram famous. I had a point. Have you ever sent call.

[Joe]

I don't.

[Katie]

Having a platform prior.

[Armstrong]

Having a platform prior. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the whole influencer thing. So I'm like a shoe company and I'm going to pay her to wear my shoes, thinking, I'll sell more shoes now.

[Joe]

Yes, unfortunately, she's a woman. Billions of dollars of business done on that in that way. Yeah.

[Armstrong]

Remember the most famous woman on a plane that lost her mind a year or so ago is the one pointing at the guy in the back of the plane. You don't exist.

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You're not real.

[Armstrong]

Or whatever the hell that is.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Armstrong]

And she's got tons of followers. What do you follow?

[Katie]

I. I follow her on Twitter and the other day she posted a screenshot of it. Yeah, she got banned from American Airlines for that whole situation. And she got an email from American Airlines saying that you have 25,000 points that you haven't used. And she. She captioned it. Who's gonna tell them?

[Armstrong]

That's pretty funny.

[Joe]

That's amusing. Yeah. I can't believe you follow her, Katie.

[Katie]

I do. You're not real.

[Joe]

Well, I guess that's it.

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Mom, I need to lay low for a few days.

[Armstrong]

Lay low.

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