Getty (2:21)

No, not my version of that. Is the. The tendency to look at a large project and not be able to internalize. The single longest journey takes, starts with a single step. I tend to look at mountains and forget that all you have to do is walk up five feet of it, then five more feet, then more five more feet. That's how you get up a mountain. And I've worked on that my whole life, but no perfectionism per se. No.

Michael (2:49)

Yeah.

Katie (2:50)

Katie, I'm trying to think. I don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't think I have an element. I mean, I do have, like the. I hyper focus on something until I get it right, but I don't think it's like a.

Michael (3:01)

Do you ever not do something, though, because you think you can't get it exactly right? Because that's what perfectionism is.

Katie (3:08)

No, no. I'll try.

Michael (3:12)

Rather than be all kinds of examples being really good at this. You might be really good at it, but it's not as good as you'd like to be. So you just don't do it at all. That's what holds back a lot of perfectionists.

Getty (3:26)

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I'm familiar with that impulse, specifically in music. The. The bitter joke that anybody who's ever worked on recorded music knows is it's never done. You just stop working on.

Michael (3:38)

Yeah.

Getty (3:39)

Because you're. You get to the point where you're making yourself crazy and making the song.

Katie (3:42)

Or.

Michael (3:42)

Same with writing a book or anything. You just at some point have to decide, okay, I'm stopping now.

Getty (3:48)

Right. But the fact that, you know, most people can say, all right, this is crazy, we gotta stop. That's. I guess that's what a perfectionist can't do or whatever.

Michael (3:56)

Yeah. Or they don't even start. They don't even start. You would tear it up. I think this is not perfect yet. You'd tear it up and you just screw it and maybe not do it again ever or for a very long time. I wonder how many of the successful people in the world are just because they don't have perfectionism. They can just do my best. I wish it were better, but that's good enough for me. Whatever it is, starting a business or painting or learning to be a mechanic or whatever the hell it is.

Getty (4:25)

Yeah. I think, yeah, they probably have a grasp of what are diminishing returns. And what does that mean? Maybe they don't even know the term, but they realize, look, if I work this long, it. It's going to be pretty good. And making it 2% better. It takes so much time. Now let's leave that alone, move on to the other thing and just. It's good enough.

Katie (4:42)

It's fine.

Michael (4:42)

The human mind, you know, there are.

Getty (4:44)

Different levels of that, obviously.

Michael (4:45)

Yeah. The human mind is so complicated. Yes. Michael.

Jack (4:48)

Did you guys ever struggle with. Especially earlier in your careers, wanting to do the perfect show? Like if you said something or something went wrong? During the show.

Michael (4:55)

Well, that would be perfectionism. Yeah.

Jack (4:57)

No, just couldn't get past it, you.

Michael (4:58)

Know, I really don't think I've got perfectionism. Thank God.

Getty (5:01)

Yeah. You know, it's like I was thinking about somebody incorrectly used the term simplistic the other day. Simple and simplistic are different things. Simplistic means oversimplifying something to the point of absurdity or inaccuracy. Simple is good. Simplistic is distortion. Wanting to have high quality is healthy. Being a perfectionist is unhealthy. So, yeah, wanting. Wanting the show, for instance, to be as good as it can possibly be and cringing at every moment. That didn't come out the way I'd hoped it would. That's not. That's wanting quality. That's not paralyzing.

Katie (5:42)

Yeah, I absolutely used to do that though, Michael, when I. Yeah, me too. When I had rough moment.

Getty (5:48)

Really?

Katie (5:48)

It would eat me up.

Michael (5:50)

Really interesting.

Katie (5:51)

Yeah. And until actually a guy that I worked with, he said, katie, what can you do about it? It's already gone over the air. It's gone. Let it go. And it was like, oh, you know what? You're right.

Getty (6:01)

Well, and you were an athlete, right? More or less, yeah.

Katie (6:05)

Oh, yeah.

Getty (6:05)

Fairly serious, right?

Katie (6:06)

Played, Yeah, I played multiple sports, but big time basketball.

Michael (6:10)

Yeah.

Getty (6:10)

I'm kind of surprised then because, you know, I learned early in life that, hey, sometimes if you're pitching, sometimes you give up a hit. You don't want to, but it happens. Perfection's impossible. So just bounce back and come out and play hard.

Katie (6:21)

I had a lot of conversations with dad about letting go, what happened on the court.

Getty (6:25)

Oh, okay, Fair enough.

Katie (6:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Michael (6:28)

So I don't think this is perfectionism. It's just procrastination. And I don't think they're the same thing. But like, I have. I always struggle with a stack of paperwork that I never get to my whole life. On my deathbed, I'm going to think, why did you spend like half of your adult life stressed out over that stack of paperwork? But that's what I do. But part of it is like what you're talking about. It just seems like too big a project. Like I can't do the whole thing, so I don't do any. So I don't know if that's perfectionism or just procrastination or if they overlap a lot. But I did have a therapist say, and this is one of the best pieces of advice ever got. I was able to implement it for a while. He said, just do one thing every day. And I said, but I'll never get through it. Doing one thing every day. Keeping in mind that I was doing zero things every day at the time. And the doing one thing every day, whether it's cleaning the house or the paperwork or whatever, really made some serious progress. But I always looked at the task of gotta tear into that and get that done, as opposed to, I'm gonna do one and stop. It's pointless. But again, if you're. If your fallback is zero.

Katie (7:40)

Yeah.

Getty (7:41)

I was squandering the precious moments of my life yesterday on Twitter and came across an ad for. I think it's called the Fabulous or Fabulous or something like that. It's. It was developed by some scientists, Harvard or Yale or one of your highfalutin universities. But it's. And it sounded. I actually did a little AI searching on what it is and how it works. It has to do with habit building. And it starts like effortless, easy, and you just do one thing, like so one new thing. The one example they gave, which was odd, is drink a cup of water when you wake up every morning and get used to. And then attach something semi useful to that, and it just incrementally helps you build the, you know, longest journey begins with a single step feeling of confronting paperwork. For instance, it's, you know, it's so similar to the idea, go to the gym, promise yourself you'll stay there for five minutes, and if you're not digging it, leave after five minutes and honor that. If you're not digging it, leave.

Katie (8:48)

Yeah.

Getty (8:49)

And, you know, and I've got it in a couple of things I'm doing. Just go up and start. Write five words or, you know, listen to one bass guitar track or whatever, and that's it. You don't have to take on the monster. Just start, see how it's going, and then don't. And it's worked for me. Actually, you know, I got some of this advice. Jack was from Claude. Speaking of AI, I was talking about, hey, sometimes I feel what's the point? And I get discouraged and blah, blah, blah. And they said, all right, here's what.

Michael (9:19)

You kill yourself.

Getty (9:21)

You suck. Maybe if you didn't suck, you wouldn't feel like that. Sucko.

Michael (9:25)

No.

Getty (9:25)

But it was super good advice about ways to overcome that.

Michael (9:30)

I've always wished, I suppose in reality, no addiction is good because it by definition means you have no control over it. Why can't I be addicted to working out or be a workaholic or be a clean freak or one of those people that I just can't go to bed unless every. My checkbook is completely balanced and everything is in order. Why can't I be one of those people? Just got a little bit.

Getty (9:53)

No.

Michael (9:53)

No, what? Nothing.

Getty (9:56)

Yeah, you get what you get. You don't get a choice.

Jack (10:01)

Well, I guess that's it.

Getty (10:03)

Can we do a second take of that? Michael, I didn't. I didn't think you'd really put your heart into it.

Jack (10:08)

Well, I guess that's it.

Michael (10:12)

Okay. But it's not perfect.

Podcast Host (10:16)

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