Why Would I Read That Crap??!!

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Why Would I Read That Crap??!!
Date: July 22, 2026
Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the ongoing debate over classic literature in American education, focusing on recent curriculum changes in Texas that emphasize traditional Western literary works—often authored by “old dead white males.” Armstrong, Getty, and Michael discuss their personal experiences with frustrating “dumb rules,” the cultural shifts in what is taught in universities, and the legacy of professors who fought for preserving the literary canon. The show’s tone is candid, witty, and sometimes lightly irreverent, moving fluidly between humor and deeper cultural critique.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Anecdotes: Apologies and Pet Peeves (01:07–06:06)

• Getty shares a story about his frustration with “annoying” bureaucratic rules at his local bank, culminating in a self-reflective decision to apologize to the bank teller for his irritable behavior.
  • Quote: “Since I was a little kid…I’ve never liked dumb rules. Dumb rules have always bothered me.” (04:08, Co-host)
• Michael and Getty both discuss moments when they misplaced items or made mistakes, and how easy it is to become frustrated and lash out at those just doing their jobs.
  • Amusing references to leaving things in the wrong places—“akin to putting your screwdriver in the refrigerator and the milk in your tool chest.” (05:27, Michael)

2. Pride and Prejudice, ‘Chick Books’, and Victorian Custom (07:37–08:05)

• The episode opens with a joking jab at classic literature:
  • “Why would I want to read that crap?” – referencing Pride and Prejudice (01:09, Co-host)
• Discussion on the value of Jane Austen’s work as a window into Victorian customs, and the tendency of some (Getty) to avoid books perceived as “chick books.”
  • Michael notes his wife and daughter “can practically recite…the most celebrated screen version of it.”

3. Texas’ New Required Reading List: Culture Wars in Curricula (08:33–18:20)

• Michael introduces the controversy over Texas’ new book list, shaped both by a desire to return to the classics and to push back against what’s seen as progressive erasure of Western literature.
  • “We’re gonna teach the classics because they’re classics. We’re not ashamed of Western civilization. Come look.” (08:35, Michael)
• The list, covered by the New York Times, is described as prioritizing classic texts—often by white male authors—stirring debate over what constitutes “essential literature” in a diverse state. (09:00–09:30)
  • The Bible is included, with Michael defending its inclusion as essential cultural literacy: “You cannot understand much in literature without being passingly familiar with the Bible and its stories.” (13:09, Michael)
• The hosts joke about accusations of “shoving Christianity down my throat,” and review titles spanning from The Cat in the Hat in kindergarten to Hamlet in grade 12.

4. Harold Bloom, Academia, and the Death of Shakespeare in Universities (10:15–16:57)

• The conversation pivots to the late Harold Bloom, a Yale and NYU professor who fought to keep Shakespeare and the Western canon at the heart of academia, despite opposition from colleagues.
  • Quote: “He spent the last 10 years of his life fighting against people who had been his best friends his whole life…He said, I wish I’d never done it…I lost the battle. It’s over. The universities no longer teach that stuff. It’s never coming back.” (11:41–12:42, Co-host)
• The hosts find it “horrifying” that “Shakespeare went from being the greatest writer in human history to not taught in our colleges at all.” (12:55, Co-host)
• Bloom’s demise is used as a cautionary tale about the changing tides in higher education.

5. The Classics: Hope for a Comeback? (17:14–19:39)

• The hosts review the Texas reading list, waxing nostalgic about discovering (or missing out on) authors like Bradbury, Vonnegut, Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, Nathaniel Hawthorne, and Shelley.
• They debate whether the classics can “make a comeback” against what they see as ongoing trends toward “problematising” and deconstructing old texts.
  • “If [the canon] can quote-unquote win for 50 years and then it gets rolled back…you gotta keep fighting it one way or another.” (18:33, Michael)
• Getty expresses skepticism, while Michael offers “cautious optimism.”

6. Cultural Self-Critique and The “Smugness” of Progressivism (19:04–20:06)

• The conversation ends with sharp criticism of academic trends that dismiss the past:
  • “The self-pleasedness of these people who are smarter than all of…Shakespeare has some problems, you know…and we are now…after four centuries way smarter than everybody that’s come before.” (19:04, Co-host)
  • Michael laments “the smug self-congratulations of Progressivism,” calling it “sickening.” (19:35–19:39, Michael/Co-host)

7. Conclusion: Persistence and The Value of Cultural Fights (20:06)

• The episode wraps with an exhortation to “keep fighting” for what matters in culture, even with the risk of defeat.
  • “You’re either gonna win or you’re gonna go down swinging. One of Tom Petty’s greatest songs.” (19:40–20:06, Michael)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Why would I want to read that crap?” (01:09, Co-host — joking about Pride and Prejudice)
• “Since I was a little kid…I’ve never liked dumb rules. Dumb rules have always bothered me. I understand the point sometimes of dumb rules, but…” (04:08, Co-host)
• “You cannot understand much in literature without being passingly familiar with the Bible and its stories.” (13:09, Michael)
• “He said, I wish I’d never done it…I lost the battle. …All I can do is hope to educate a remnant…He said, we lost. And hopefully someday it will come back again.” (12:42, Co-host, quoting Harold Bloom)
• “The smug self-congratulations of progressivism makes me insane.” (19:35, Michael)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:07–06:06 – Stories of “dumb rules” and personal apologies
• 07:37–08:05 – Pride and Prejudice and the gendering of reading
• 08:33–18:20 – Texas’ book list, culture war, and defense of the classics
• 10:15–16:57 – Harold Bloom, academic battles, and cultural loss
• 17:14–19:39 – Hope for literary comebacks and reviewing the curriculum
• 19:04–20:06 – Culture critique, progressivism, and persistence

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Tone & Style

Conversational, humorous, slightly irreverent, yet serious when discussing cultural and educational shifts. The hosts mix personal storytelling with critical commentary, nostalgia, and playfulness, especially when addressing “culture wars” and the fate of classic literature in American schools.

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For listeners interested in the ongoing debate over education, literary canons, and the intersection of politics and culture, this episode offers insight, laughs, and reflective moments drawn from both the hosts’ personal lives and the world of academia.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Armstrong]

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[Michael]

I'm already proud and prejudiced.

[Co-host]

Why would I want to read that crap?

[Michael]

It's one more thing.

[Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Michael]

One more thing. A reference, of course, to Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, which I believe is a guidebook to get you better at those two qualities.

[Co-host]

I. I'm gonna say this on the air so that I kind of backs me into having to do it.

[Michael]

Oh boy.

[Co-host]

This is not a good story about me. Or maybe it is. Depends on how you look at it. I have to go to apologize to a bank teller today.

[Michael]

Oh boy.

[Co-host]

Because yesterday I was doing something and there was some dumb. Just dumb bureaucratic hiccup in me trying to deposit this check. This is a. This one. I should switch banks. There's one particular bank I've been going to forever. They've gotten crappier and crappier and crappier over the years with more and more and more stupid, just crap. And it's so annoying. And it takes like 15 minutes to

[Michael]

deposit a check for some reason, I

[Co-host]

don't know why anyway, which I only have to do like twice a year. But you can't do it through the ATM past a certain. Whatever it was.

[Michael]

My.

[Co-host]

It was my refund check from the state of California. And. And then. You don't believe this. I mean, this is. It's just. Anywho, what I did was that I got to go apologize for today is he needed something else, which seemed ridiculous to me. And I already hate this bank and he said, you need to take all your stuff with you. And I, there's nobody here. It's completely empty bank. I said, I'll be all right, but I'll go out to my car. It's right there. And he said, you need to take all this stuff right here. You can't leave this here. My check and driver's license and the stuff that I had for our little thing we were doing.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

I said, I'm going right up to my truck. He said, you can't leave this here. And I said, well, that's freaking ridiculous. And I grabbed my stuff and I walked out. So I'm going to go back and apologize for that today. Because all he was doing was following their bank rules, I'm sure doing what his boss tells him to do. And I, you know, I did, I didn't need to do that. So I'm going to go back and apologize him today. Which will get that off of my mind because I keep thinking about saying, you know, criticizing something. Poor young guy just doing his job.

[Michael]

Now let's tell the whole story. Did you call him a dumb effer?

[Co-host]

No, that was the whole thing.

[Michael]

A greasy haired jackrabbit, anything? No, that was it.

[Co-host]

I don't even think I said friggin. I think I just said, well that's ridiculous and grabbed my stuff in a huff and walked out and then came back. But I didn't need to do that and he doesn't need to be feeling bad about doing his job. So I will go back today and, and, and walk in there and probably wait in line and I'll walk out and he'll still think I'm a dick, but.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Michael]

Well, you left in a huff. You should have waited a second and left in a second and a half. Groucho Marx, 1934. Ish. Anyway, I.

[Co-host]

Since I was a little kid and I should get better. It's just the way of the world. I've never liked dumb rules. Dumb rules have always bothered me. I understand the point sometimes of dumb rules, but.

[Michael]

Yeah, I kind of get that rule though.

[Co-host]

Well, I'm sure I understand why it exists. In an empty bank. Just him and me walking into bar.

[Michael]

Come on.

[Co-host]

I'm going to walk right back here. Yeah, it'll take me. It took me 15, 20 seconds. Yeah, but whatever.

[Michael]

Yeah, it's, it's. Yeah, it's avoiding that whole you stole my blanket. Right, right scenario. You know? Yeah, yeah. I almost got in one of those the other day. I misplaced something and was sure I knew where it was misplaced. I ended up being wrong and I'm glad I didn't escalate the conversation at all. No, I left it here. I'm sure I left it here and one of you has it. It's one of those situations, but they seem to be of good character. And so I let it go, thinking that's unlikely and I'm not gonna be the maid is stealing my jewelry person.

[Co-host]

And you turned out you were wrong anyway.

[Michael]

Oh yeah, I had put it somewhere utterly inexplicable. I mean, I will never think figure out why I would have done what I did. It was, it was akin to not quite as crazy, but akin to putting your screwdriver in the refrigerator and the milk in your tool chest. You know, it's just one of those things not paying attention.

[Co-host]

It's like the other day I swore up and down I left my credit card for my son because he needed it for something and I didn't. I left him my insurance card, which is really of no value. Well, it is of some value, but it's no good to buy anything at the grocery store.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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[Michael]

Anyway, so we were discussing. All right. My introduction was a reference to Pride and Prejudice, you may recall, which I haven't read.

[Co-host]

I'm gonna read that. That's like two down my list. I'm going to get to that. Enough people that I really respect say that's one of the great all time pieces of literature and I should read it.

[Michael]

It's a really, really good window into Victorian customs and values.

[Co-host]

I gotta admit, I tend to stay away from chick books.

[Michael]

But my daughter Delaney and my wife are huge fans. Most women are practically recite the like the most celebrated screen version of it. I can't tell you how many times I heard oh, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Darcy around my house. Hilarious. Good times. Anyway, Texas is out with their required book list. And this is a trend among conservative.

[Co-host]

The state.

[Michael]

Yes. Yeah, for. I'm sorry, for curricula, school curriculum curricula. And this is a trend. There are a couple of universities and I wish I had it in front of me who's doing this. But the, the, the message that they're sending is I'm more than delighted to show you what we are teaching your children. Progressive places you next. And there's also an element of hey, we're going to teach the classics because they're classics. We're proud of it. They're great literature. It's Western civilization. We're not ashamed of Western civilization. Come look. Both of which I think are absolutely wonderful trends. Anyway, Texas. I deliberately grabbed the account from the New York Times about the Texas book list because I knew it would be an. It would be annoying. And they name check a bunch of the lists and they have the entire list for various grades which I'll touch on in a little bit. They go through the mechanics of how this came to be. The list was applauded in some corners for prioritizing reading at a time when many students are reading fewer whole books in school and at home. It was also highly contested in part because it includes excerpts from the Bible. It also puts a focus on classic texts, often written by white and male authors, stirring debate about what qualifies as essential literature in a highly diverse state. Teachers can still Assign additional bucks on top of the ones required. The whole anti white, anti male.

[Co-host]

They won. They won. By the way.

[Michael]

Who that?

[Co-host]

The people that don't. That wanted to drive out literature written the classic literature written by straight white males, old dead white males. According to Harold Bloom, who was one of the greatest fighters of that in American history. I just happened to come across one of his final interviews before he died about 15 years ago. He was a professor at Yale, taught Shakespeare primarily, but all kinds of American literature. And he was not a conservative. I mean, he thought we were living in a theocracy under George Bush. I mean, he was one of those people. I mean, he was a hardcore Democrat. I know, but whatever. But hated the new woke, erase the Western canon because it was dead white males thing. And particularly because he thought Shakespeare was the greatest writer in human history. He hated the fact that at the time that he started lecturing about this, there wasn't a university in the country teaching Shakespeare straight up. I mean, like this is, you know, let's read Hamlet because it's a great piece of literature. You know, you would only bring up Shakespeare if you brought it up at all. And mostly it wasn't brought up at all. But the only reason you'd bring it up is to show how they didn't have enough women or didn't have enough gay people or didn't handle slavery well or what it was deconstructing.

[Michael]

We're going to deconstruct it. Exactly. Problematize it.

[Co-host]

And so he as a lefty fought against this and just got attacked endlessly. He spent the last 10 years of his life fighting against people who had been his best friends his whole life because they thought he was on the wrong side of history. And I saw one of his last interviews the other day on YouTube and it was so depressing to me. He's all, he's all bent over, his body had given out on him. They have a microphone they're holding up to his mouth as he's in a wheelchair. And. And he said, I wish I'd never done it. He said it cost me too much. I lost all my friends and I lost, I lost the battle. It's over. The universities no longer teach that stuff. It's never coming back. He said, all I could do is hope there's a remnant of some of us. He. It was his last year teaching and he taught like 10 people at Yale in the Shakespeare class because no kids wanted to take it. He said, all I can do is hope to educate a remnant for the rest of my life. Which didn't end up being much longer. He said we lost. And hopefully someday it will come back again.

[Michael]

Well, Harold, if you're looking down from the heaven you don't believe in. Or up from similarly described hell. They were winning for a long time. But there is a counter fight going on.

[Co-host]

I hope it's not over. Isn't that horrifying, though, that Shakespeare went from being the greatest writer in human history. To not taught in our colleges at all. And if you stood up for it, you got destroyed. That's horrifying.

[Michael]

You know, in the midst of the Terror, in the French Revolution. I'm sure lots of people probably went to the guillotine thinking, oh, my God, they won, right? They did. For a while, anyway. I won't give up on any of this stuff. I don't care. But Texas's list, which is controversial in some quarters. Includes the Holy Bible. I read an absolutely terrific defense of it. More eloquent than I can provide. About how you cannot understand much in literature. Without being passingly familiar with the Bible and its stories. The Bible. That's right, sir. That's what I just said. But it goes from kindergarten where they have you reading the Berenstain Bears in the Golden Rule. For instance. In the Cat in the Hat by Dr. Seuss, among other classics. To classic nursery rhymes, Goldilocks and the Three bears, et cetera. Three little.

[Co-host]

I heard Dr. Seuss took money from AIPAC.

[Michael]

Hilarious. The three Little Pigs Slash Los Tres Serditos, a bilingual storybook by Patricia Seibert. Anyway, I have no problem with that. Let's see. Grade one includes Abe Lincoln, the Boy who Loved Books. Beautiful. Something Called Abuela by Arthur Doros. So you're reflecting Hispanic culture. Wait a minute. Let me go back to that sentence by the annoying, effing New York Times, quote, unquote, journalist. It puts a focus on classic texts. Often written by white and male authors, but nowhere near exclusively. So I guess you threw that in because you just feel like you have to. God, these people are annoying. What grade do you want? Name a grade, Michael. You get to pick the grade. Name a grade. Any grade. Seventh. Seventh grade. Here you go. Grade 7. The diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank. Let's see. Letter to the Hebrew Congregation at Newport by George Washington.

[Co-host]

I don't know that.

[Michael]

The Shepherd's Psalm from the Book of Psalms, chapter 23 by King. The King James Version.

[Co-host]

Shoving Christianity down my throat.

[Michael]

No, they're not. The Outsiders, by S.E. hinton. Very famous. Got some Dylan Thomas. Some Langston Hughes, some Robert Frost. Good stuff. Let's see, grade 8, grade 9, grade 10. What do they got? The seniors in high school reading the grade 12ers, Hamlet by William Shakespeare, to deconstruct it and problematize it, I'm sure.

[Co-host]

The thing.

[Michael]

And then the thing that really depressed

[Co-host]

me because I've taken in so much Harold Bloom stuff recently because I got on this Shakespeare kick and he used to be on Charlie Rose all the time back when that was what passed for being a lefty. Then he was hunted down by, you know, the other people in academia and he was a pariah. So he went from being a. A regular on Charlie Rose as a Yale professor to a pariah. But the thing that was depressing is watching an interview with him from like 1992 and he was talking about, you know, I'm in the fight for my life, Charlie, for trying to keep Shakespeare in the colleges. But this is a blip in time. They won't win. It's just a select few people. Back then everybody used the term political correctness instead of woke. But he's talking political correctness will have its time, but it will go away. Shakespeare will prevail. It went from that in 92, little by little, year by year. And he was inside these universities. He taught at Yale, he taught at nyu, he did stuff at Stanford. He was in and to the end of his life where he said, we lost. I lost the battle. It is over. They won. He saw it go in that direction little by little over the years. I mean, that's. That's so depressing.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, it is.

[Co-host]

As I have quoted before, Christopher Hitchens said he talk about the end of civilizations, the barbarians at the gate. The reality is the barbarians walk in the gates with somebody holding the door from them. That's the way civilizations die.

[Michael]

Right, right. So grade 11, Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451. You got some Kurt Vonnegut, some Ayn Rand, some Thomas Sowell, Nathaniel Hawthorne.

[Co-host]

I wasn't introduced to hardly any of this stuff in school. It all came later on my own.

[Michael]

Yeah, 451 was required.

[Co-host]

Pretty sure I never read Kurt Vonnegut in school.

[Michael]

I did. It was one of the formative experiences of my life reading his short story Harrison Bergeron, which every child should read 10 times by the time they get out of high school. Yeah, see, yeah, this is really good. This is terrific. Grade nine, you got Animal Farm. Let's see, the Lyceum address by Abraham Lincoln, which is absolutely brilliant. Ozymandias by Percy. Is it Bishi Shelley. I'll just go with Percy Shelley. I've never really got into poetry that much. It was never taught to me. All sorts of good stuff, including the parable of the prodigal son.

[Co-host]

I hope you're right. They can make a comeback. I'm not optimistic.

[Michael]

I know. I'm always more optimistic in these things than you are.

[Co-host]

I hope I'm wrong. I would rub. I'd love to be wrong. I would roll around in my wrongness. If this stuff can make a comeback,

[Michael]

well, if they can quote unquote win for 50 years and then it gets rolled back. If that's as good as it gets, that's as good as it gets. But you got to keep fighting it one way or another. You know, I remember reading about the Civil War, how depressing it was, how the union endured defeat after defeat. And the incompetence of McClellan in particular is just astonishing. A lot of people more or less gave up, but you, that's why you keep fighting the it.

[Co-host]

Not only is it like, you know, I just think it's wrong and depressing, all that sort of stuff. The self pleasedness of these people who are smarter than all of, you know, the last 400 years. Shakespeare has some problems, you know, and we are now all of a sudden, after four centuries, way smarter than everybody that's come before. They didn't realize how awful this was and we're gonna kill it off.

[Michael]

Yeah, the smug self congratulations of progressivism makes me insane.

[Co-host]

Oh, it's sickening.

[Michael]

But you know, that's why you keep fighting. You're either gonna win or you're gonna go down swinging. One of Tom Petty's greatest songs. Swinging like Sonny Liston. Man, I love that song. That ought to be required listening in Texas and everywhere else. Also read 3 Shakespeare. Michael portraying the modern university.

[Armstrong]

Well, I guess that's it.

[Co-host]

Great.

[Podcast Host]

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