You Have to Occupy

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "You Have to Occupy"
Date: May 4, 2026
Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into two dominant themes: the escalating Middle East conflict affecting global trade and U.S. security policy, and a critical, sometimes satirical, look at media figures—most notably, Tucker Carlson and his dramatic commentary about former President Trump. Military analyst Mike Lyons joins early in the episode for an in-depth assessment of the Strait of Hormuz crisis, while later segments pivot to discussion and dissection of media, propaganda, and changes in the culture of political discourse. Throughout, the signature Armstrong & Getty banter mixes humor with skepticism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Strait of Hormuz Crisis, U.S. Security, and Economic Impact

Guest: Mike Lyons (Military Analyst)

• Operation Freedom Announced, But Details Sparse

  • Trump administration claims they will "guide" neutral ships out of restricted waterways, but specifics are unclear.
  • No commitment to visible U.S. warship escorts; ambiguity on operational plans ([02:57]-[04:33]).

• Recent Incidents Escalate Concerns

  • South Korean flagged vessel fired upon by Iran, showing ongoing threats despite U.S. proclamations ([04:33]-[04:53]).

• Military Historical Parallels

  • Mike Lyons references 1980s Iran-Iraq war tanker escorts, noting only limited effectiveness; significant military assets would be required for true protection ([04:53]-[05:55]).

• Limits of Air Power & Necessity of Ground Presence

  • Discussion about why air power alone rarely achieves military objectives; "if you want to hold it, you got to occupy it" ([10:47]-[11:41]).
  • Citing Fehrenbach: "You can fly over land, you can pound it, you can bomb it into oblivion, but until you're willing to do what the Roman legions did...you can't hold it, you can't take it." – Mike Lyons ([10:47]).

• Economic Ramifications

  • U.S. somewhat insulated due to energy independence; other world economies—especially China—much more vulnerable to disruptions ([07:14]-[08:08]).

• Deterrence, Kinetic Action, and Ammunition Concerns

  • Lack of deterrence means Iranian attacks continue.
  • Lyons: "I do believe you're going to see a lot more kinetic action in the future. Sure." ([08:53]-[08:53]).
  • U.S. munitions stockpiles depleted; need for military industrial base reset ([09:10]-[10:12]).

• Adversaries Learning from Conflict

  • Adversaries notice economic strain of U.S. missile defense: "$2 million missile, we're firing at $100,000 missile... those economics don't work."
  • U.S. must shift from air defense to offense to deny adversaries capability ([12:09]-[13:04]).

Notable Quotes:

• "For all practical purposes, to change things, you have to occupy it. If you want to hold it, you got to occupy it." – Mike Lyons ([10:47])
• "The economics don't work on air defense... $2 million missile, we're firing at $100,000 missile." – Mike Lyons ([12:09])

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2. The Tucker Carlson & Trump Saga: Propaganda, Denial, and Cynicism

Central Figures:

• Tucker Carlson (Media personality)
• Discussion by Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty

Tucker Carlson’s “Trump as Spellcaster/Antichrist” Comments

• Carlson’s Speculation on Trump’s Influence

  • "There is a kind of quality that he [Trump] has that's spellbinding... It's like you're in this kind of dreamland. It's like smoking hash or something. It's interesting, very interesting. And there may be a supernatural component to it... But it's real." – Tucker Carlson ([25:51]-[26:24])
  • Armstrong & Getty react with disbelief and skepticism, observing that such talk is meant to appeal to conspiratorial segments: "I think he's appealing to people who believe that sort of thing. Kind of a magical thinking, conspiracy theory crowd." – Joe Getty ([27:16])

• Gaslighting and Denial Tactics

  • Carlson denies having called Trump “the Antichrist” despite video evidence to the contrary ([28:07]-[29:09]).
  • Armstrong & Getty criticize this: "That seems like the next level to me, is ... you play audio of me saying something and I just flat out say, 'I never said that.'" – Jack Armstrong ([30:23])

• Broader Media Cynicism

  • Hosts discuss the proliferation of truth-denying strategies by media and politicians, noting the erosion of accountability and an increasingly divided, propagandized media environment ([29:34]-[34:44]).

On Tucker’s Motivation and Turn

• Cynical Turn in Media Careers

  • Armstrong argues Carlson’s cynicism likely developed after seeing bipartisan political deceit, leading to his current performative role ([33:09]-[33:35]).

• Admitting Wrongdoing, War, & Regret

  • Carlson expresses regret for previously defending Trump and links his disillusionment to Iraq war lies: "I'm sorry... I told people, this guy will keep us out of the next Iraq... And here we are in the middle of a regime change war in Iran." – Tucker Carlson ([35:39]-[36:40])

Propaganda & Audience Manipulation

• The importance of narrative control—citing that Carlson’s core audience won’t see his contradictions exposed in mainstream outlets: “The people who love Tucker aren't going to watch a New York Times interview with Tucker Carlson.” – Jack Armstrong ([30:03])
• Getty: "I think he actually cared pretty deeply about certain principles for a long time." ([33:52])
• Armstrong: "This is next level... You can go to his website right now and watch him call Trump the Antichrist. And for him to say, I never said that... We're in a new spot now." ([34:28])

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3. Modern Warfare & Philosophical Reflections

Joe Getty’s “Creed” on Modern Conflict

• “In an era of low-cost munitions and drones, you can't remove your opponent's ability to attack, so you must remove their will to attack.” – Joe Getty ([14:43])
• But effective deterrence is nearly impossible against "nihilists who are perfectly okay with dying" ([15:14]), leading to dark humor about how to even deter groups with apocalyptic ideologies.

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4. Other Cultural Commentary & Satire

Kentucky Derby, Identity Politics, and Social Labels

• Discussion of historic Kentucky Derby win by first female trainer, reactions against "identity everything": "Let her be just fantastic for being what she did, not having to put a thing on it." – Jack Armstrong ([19:26])

True Crime, Infidelity, and Curses

• Briefly discuss Texas execution and the bizarre case of a death-row inmate marrying a British law student ([21:31]-[22:27]).
• Pop culture: Reports of Megan Thee Stallion fans hiring "Etsy witches" to curse NBA star Klay Thompson—hosts mock the idea and the irrationality of such beliefs ([44:04]-[47:19]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You can fly over land, you can pound it, you can bomb it into oblivion, but until you're willing to do what the Roman legions did... you can't hold it, you can't take it." – Mike Lyons, classic military wisdom ([10:47])
• "Tucker is so good at that sort of thing... we played the clip earlier where he said Trump might be the Antichrist. Then he said, I've never said that. Then they played a clip and he said that wasn't me." – Jack Armstrong ([43:16])
• "In an era of low-cost munitions and drones, you can't remove your opponent's ability to attack, so you must remove their will to attack." – Joe Getty ([14:43])
• "Scoreboard for Tucker Carlson is his bank account...He's making more money now than he made at Fox News." – Jack Armstrong ([32:28])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Strait of Hormuz/U.S. Policy Updates: [02:57]-[06:54]
• Military Analysis (Mike Lyons): [04:43]-[13:13]
• Air Power vs. Ground Occupation: [10:12]-[11:41]
• Modern Munitions Economics: [12:09]-[13:04]
• Joe Getty's "Creed" on Deterrence: [14:43]
• Kentucky Derby & Identity Politics: [19:14]-[20:47]
• Execution Story (True Crime): [21:31]-[22:27]
• Tucker Carlson on 'Trump's Spell': [25:51]-[26:24]
• Carlson and the Antichrist Rhetoric: [28:07]-[29:09]
• Media Manipulation and Denial: [29:34]-[34:44]
• Cynicism in Media Careers: [33:09]-[33:35]
• Tucker Carlson’s Post-Trump Contrition: [35:39]-[36:40]
• Etsy Witches & Celebrity Curses: [44:04]-[47:19]

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Tone and Language

• Largely skeptical, irreverent, and sarcastic—especially when discussing political figures or media commentary.
• Blends straight analysis with satirical wit and self-deprecating humor.
• Military analyst Mike Lyons brings a sober, pragmatic tone, providing technical and historical context.

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Summary Takeaways

• Major security developments in the Middle East remain volatile and ambiguous, with U.S. officials lacking both clear strategy and deterrence.
• Air power has limits; lasting strategic results require ground involvement—something leaders and the public often ignore.
• Media figures like Tucker Carlson blur the lines between sincere commentary, cynical manipulation, and outright denial, reflecting broader issues in U.S. media and propaganda.
• Armstrong & Getty maintain a critical distance, quick to challenge both political orthodoxy and media sensationalism, grounding their humor in the realities of war, media, and human irrationality.

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For listeners seeking clarity on fast-moving global crises, as well as a sharp critique of the modern media circus, this episode delivers both insight and entertainment—true to Armstrong & Getty form.

Transcript

[Jana Kramer]

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[Jack Armstrong]

broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at

[Joe Getty]

the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty. With trade through that critical waterway, the Strait of Hormuz still blocked. President Trump tonight announcing a new plan to help guide cargo ships linked to countries not involved in the war to safety. Posting on social media, the president writing, quote, for the good of Iran, the Middle east and the United States, we have told these countries that we will guide their ships safely out of these restricted waterways so they can freely and ably get on with their business. Yes, it's a new operation called Operation Freedom, though it wasn't specifically said how we're going to guide the vessels through, and it doesn't include US Sailing warships next to them or something like that, if that's what you were picturing. It's what I was picturing. We're specifically not going to do that. So then it was news reports that a couple of US Flagged boats, big ships that had been there since the start of the war, got out for the first time. Well, that sounded like good news. But then like just a couple hours ago, a South Korean flagged ship was fired upon. The latest news being that it was fired upon in its engine room on the port side, which would be the side facing Iran on an outbound transit. So somebody in Iran fired on this South Korean flagged ship, probably to say, how serious are you Trump about this whole guiding ships out of the strait?

[Joe Getty]

I don't know why you're nitpicking. This trade is open. The announcement's been made.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, IRGC announced like two hours ago that it is. The strait is closed. Oh, boy.

[Joe Getty]

What is the situation? What's it likely to turn into? Let's discuss with military analyst Mike Lyons, who joins us now. Greetings, Mike. How are you?

[Mike Lyons]

Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for having me back.

[Joe Getty]

Is it safe to say confusion reigns today?

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, no, I think it does. It's hard to say what specifically this naval mission would look like. I mean, we've done it before. Back during the Iran Iraq war In the 80s, the United States used naval assets to escort tankers, Kuwaiti oil tankers in particular, through the Straits there to make sure that they weren't attacked by Iran back then. And it's, you know, the results were mixed. That, you know, kept some of the lanes open, but it did led to some direct clashes. There were minefields and the like. And again, I'm not sure we're that concerned about that. I think we'll respond right to them. But the point that was just made about that ship that was hit on that side, the real threat is coming from these coastal batteries that are almost indefensible from, you know, they've got standoff, they've got this capability to hit the ships without us having any way to protect those real ships. So we have to see what happens. If they're going to take cruisers and destroyers and put them alongside those ships and actually escort them through, that's a big mission and that's going to take a lot of military assets to do that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, we were talking about it earlier is really the. Unless you're going to do what you just described, like have a whole bunch of big warships go through there and, you know, fight, fight the people on the, on the, on the beach. The only way to do it is to, to threaten such retaliation that they don't want to fire on the ships. Like, it's a bigger picture. It's the people that would make the decision, say, do not do this. And apparently we don't have that deterrence yet.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, no, I mean, that's. That escalation management, you know, I talked about in my Wall Street Journal article. I think that needs to be proven again, that they'll do that. It'll take incredible bombardment along that coastline of naval in order to destroy anything that's there. But if the IRGC still wants to do that, that one off asymmetrical threat still can do a lot of damage. And I think that's what we've got to be concerned about. And it doesn't still show a deterrence yet. Even the lack of this, us being afraid of escalating it to a higher level is not deterring them enough.

[Joe Getty]

We know you take in a wide variety of inputs, news, et cetera. Mike, what's your perception of how much a squeeze on the world economy this whole thing is? Is it merely uncomfortable or is it uncomfortable leading toward like, severe discomfort and counterreaction?

[Mike Lyons]

No, I think it's uncomfortable, but I think it's part of this administration's overall plan to somewhat inoculate the United States from the problems of the rest of the world. I think the rest of the world is going to be much more uncomfortable. I think the Chinese are considerably worried about their energy security with this conflict, especially what happened in Venezuela when we took over that operation or have more control over it. But Trump says the US Is energy independent and we are. The challenge, though, is that the US Oil market is still petrodollars are tied to US Dollars. The whole economy runs on that, which is why we have to benchmark everything off the price of Brent crude oil. And that creates the challenge for Trump economically because if we had to turn inside, we could do what we can to lower gas prices like the Biden administration did when they were trying to win an election. Right. So there's things that the United States can do to help inoculate itself. It's the rest of the world, I think, that's got the challenge.

[Jack Armstrong]

So this is asking for, I guess, I suppose, as opposed to analysis. Are we going to get back into the kind of kinetic action that we saw at the beginning of this war, do you think?

[Mike Lyons]

I wouldn't be surprised. I think Trump is trying to do everything he can not to do that. He gave the 60 day notice to Congress that he's ended combat operations, but all that's really done is restart the clock again. If you look at the War Powers act, he has this capability to go to war 60 days at a time and by 90 days that Congress can force him out of it. Well, he's told Congress that he's done with that first part of the conflict so he could start the clock again. I do believe that it's not the last time you're going to see us firing missiles. I do believe you're going to see a lot more kinetic action in the future. Sure.

[Joe Getty]

On that topic, there's been a great deal made about the amount of ordinance we've spent in this conflict. Some of it's sincere, some of it I think just this sort of partisanship. We're used to scale of whatever you want, 1 to 5, 1 to 10, how concerned are you about how much we've spent?

[Mike Lyons]

Probably five and a half. I mean, the thing is, Ukraine, for the last three years, it took us a couple of years to revamp our artillery rounds as we've used a lot of the DPICM, the rounds from the 80s and 90s that were sitting in shelves and we've sent them to Ukraine. So that manufacturing capability has now increased. But the missiles that we've used here, the missiles coming from the ships and coming from the sidewinders, all those things are expensive to take care of minerals to make. And so when this is over in the next few months, and it's already, the planning has already started, there's got to be a much bigger increase in the military industrial complex. And I think that's why this trillion and a half dollar budget he's trying to put forth next year is going to do a lot towards rebuilding a lot of those stocks. I mean, I still don't believe the Chinese will, because of this, will look at this as a weakness on our side and decide to invade Taiwan. And I don't think that will force us there. But I do believe we're going to have to have a reset in the next two years once things go and we're going to have to really rebuild a lot of our ammunition stock.

[Jack Armstrong]

Here's a question I think a lot of us laymen have, and you can answer it because you're a guy who's, you know, part of the military fighting on the ground. I don't think most of us can understand why we can't get to where we want to get, accomplish our objectives with just air power. It seems like we ought to be able to bomb out, bomb regime change or bomb opening straits or whatever. And apparently, and apparently a lot of a president's also I was reading out the other day, presidents fall in love with air power. The fact that we have so much of it and think they can accomplish our goals, but we can't. And why is that?

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, there was a book written back during the Korean War, a guy named Fehrenbach in this kind of war, and he basically said you can fly over land, you can pound it, you can bomb it into oblivion, but until you're willing to do what the Roman legions did was put your men on the ground, you can't hold it, you can't take it. And I don't think we're trying to hold or take Iran here, but you still really can't have any kind of impact until you do something on the ground in order to move that forward. So the air power can bomb them back to civilization, back to their civilization and can really set them back. And I think that's what Trump is looking for now, that visual sign he keeps talking about that their nuclear program is 20 years setback and all of the like. But for all practical purposes, to change things, you have to occupy it. If you want to hold it, you got to occupy it. And that's where the army comes in. And again, we're not going there anytime soon. So this is going to continue to Be an air war, I think, for the very near future and long future.

[Joe Getty]

One more angle on this, Mike, if we might. The Wall Street Journal has a piece about how our adversaries are watching what's going on and learning about our, our capabilities and limitations, militarily speaking. And they point out one of the big takeaways is that they see the power of small, low cost munitions even in the midst of all this technology. What do you think of that? And what else would you add? What are our advertisers taking or, I'm sorry, adversaries taking from this?

[Mike Lyons]

So, two issues. The first one is, right, the economics don't work on air defense as well. We have a $2 million missile, we're firing at $100,000 missile, try to take it out of the sky so that economics don't work. And we'll do whatever we have to to defend and protect. So it shows you that we have to go on the offense. We can't be in the air defense system. We have to go on the offense and make sure our enemies don't have the capability. But number two, there's a huge undercurrent right now to develop the same kind of low cost munitions and technology within our country, within our entre and the like. And I think you're going to see more of that in the next few years. You know, the United States is just always going to outmuscle anybody. We can still do that based on our economy and what we're willing to spend. And so again, our enemies are looking at us and are trying to figure out a way to defeat us. But, but we're, we've been able to stay one step ahead of them in most cases. And I think, I think we'll continue to do that.

[Joe Getty]

Military analyst Mike Lyons. Really interesting stuff, Mike. Heck, it could be completely different tomorrow. We appreciate the time. Thanks very much.

[Mike Lyons]

Great guy. Thanks for having me.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah. I think maybe what warfare looks like in five years is just anybody's guess.

[Jack Armstrong]

No kidding. I think maybe the biggest misunderstanding that regular people have about war is what you can accomplish by bombing with planes. And apparently, like I said, presidents fall for that too. Yeah, we can just bomb our way toward whatever objective we have. And according to Mike Lyons and reality, based on having observed many wars now in my adult life, no, you gotta have people on the ground to accomplish what you want to accomplish.

[Joe Getty]

Which brings us to the Joe Getty Would it be an axiom or a what. What would it be? Joe Getty principle. There you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

Creed motto.

[Joe Getty]

Mmm. Creed. I like creed. The Jo Getty Creed is in an era of low cost munitions and drones, you can't remove their ability. Your opponent's ability to use those weapons. So you must review. Geez, if I could spit it out. I mean, as axioms go, this one's pretty incoherent so far. Let me have a second. Do we have enough tape? Michael, can I have a second tape?

[Jack Armstrong]

As razors go, this is a difficult one to follow thus far.

[Joe Getty]

If somebody is carving this in granite, they're getting pissed off. They're wasting a lot of good chisel time.

[Mike Lyons]

Let me rewind it real quick.

[Joe Getty]

So I guess fit all right in. In an era of low cost munitions and drones, you can't remove your opponent's ability to attack, so you must remove their will to attack.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, the.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, yeah. Counter to the Getty axiom is,

[Jack Armstrong]

how

[Joe Getty]

are you gonna do that without exacting such pain? Did you have to send in ground troops and complete warfare?

[Jack Armstrong]

Especially if you're dealing with a religious death cult. That's what I was gonna throw in that your. Your. Your axiom Creed motto. Razor works. If you're not dealing with nihilists who are perfectly okay with dying, and they're. They're people dying, and on all their people dying.

[Mike Lyons]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Or starving to serve Allah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that was a good thing. If I die and you die, we're. We're all in a better place. This is perfect. This is good.

[Joe Getty]

So let's go ahead and die.

[Jack Armstrong]

Super. Wow, that's interesting.

[Joe Getty]

The hell's a boy to do?

[Jack Armstrong]

Get that carved in the granite. Put that up on a pedestal. People can check that out at their leisure.

[Joe Getty]

I'd appreciate an obelisk.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, gotta love a good obelisk. What was the other thing? We got another thing coming up this hour that's worth mentioning.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, it's so good. So amazing.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is.

[Joe Getty]

I don't remember deep yet funny.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, wait.

[Mike Lyons]

What?

[Joe Getty]

What was it? I was excited about it. I said, let's do it there.

[Jack Armstrong]

Have you listened to that show with the old guys who can't remember what they're gonna talk about?

[Joe Getty]

The one guy so mushmouthed he announces grand sayings and you can't even understand them.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, whatever it was, it was on the way, so.

[Joe Getty]

Here. Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's funny.

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[Jana Kramer]

Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lenox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars, perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain or enjoy the little details that make everyday life special. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure and once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage you're a

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[Joe Getty]

they come to the last 16th of a mile, Danon Bourbon in front, both

[Jack Armstrong]

selling a huge long shot. Renegade and Golden Tempo are closing two.

[Joe Getty]

Here's Golden Tempo.

[Jack Armstrong]

Golden Tempo and Shereen Demo make history in the Kentucky Derby. The first female trainer to win The Kentucky Derby, 24 year old Sherry DeVoe Conditioning Golden Tempo with a tremendous run down the stretch to win the Derby. I freaking hate identity politics, identity everything. Let her be just fantastic for being what she did, not having to put a thing on it. I just, I don't, I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

Well, a new day is dawn for little girls who dream of training a Kentucky Derby horse.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, what do I know? I'm a white male. I'm in the opposite of that. But I would think, do you have to say I'm the first black or the first woman or the first. Can you, Can I just be the person that won the Kentucky Derby?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

A lot of pretty happy about that.

[Joe Getty]

That who achieve those things would prefer that. Honestly. Hey, can you make me not a symbol? Can you make somebody who just, you know, went to the top of my profession?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, but so I had heard, I didn't watch the kd, but I'd heard the horse came from last place. Then I saw the, the, the, the, the ending of it on the video and they're looking for above and they show their horses and even though I knew the result, I thought that's not possible. Not with the amount of time that's left. That horse can't make it from there to there. That's not. And it did. That's really quite amazing.

[Joe Getty]

I was at a Kentucky Derby party and I have no idea what happened and I didn't see it happen.

[Jack Armstrong]

You went to a Kentucky Derby party but didn't watch the Kentucky Derby?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I was passed out. No kidding.

[Jack Armstrong]

You were in a fight.

[Joe Getty]

There was supposed to be a pool and the person in charge of the pool realized that a terrible logistical problem had been made and asked me to solve it. And I was frantically trying to solve it in a way that would not cause a riot, was ultimately unable to and said give everybody their money back.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh man.

[Joe Getty]

So I was trying to deal with that and.

[Jack Armstrong]

And you missed the first female trainer to ever win the Kentucky Derby.

[Joe Getty]

Oh my God.

[Jack Armstrong]

Worst comes from last place. How much time I got. Michael, I want to tell this tale it's kind of interesting.

[Joe Getty]

About a minute.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, this is enough time. It's a short story. So some scumbag got executed in Texas over the weekend and he deserved it. Double murder. Horrible story. Anyway, his new wife screamed I love you through the window as he died of lethal injection. Injection. You're probably thinking to yourself. His new wife, British law graduate Tiana something or other, had married this death row inmate just weeks before he died. The new wife struck up the relationship by writing to him in prison as part of her law studies. Was inconsolable. As he was finally executed, she wrote to him a while back, fell in love with him, married him, and then screamed I love you at the glass as he was put to death.

[Joe Getty]

She's not.

[Jack Armstrong]

How do you not commit that person? Aren't they by definition too, too crazy to be on the street? Crazy.

[Joe Getty]

Delusional. I certainly wouldn't let them practice law on my behalf. Cuckoo.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is Tucker Carlson delusional or is it an act or what's going on with him? Man, did he have an interesting interview with the New York Times over the weekend. Armstrong and Getty.

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[Public Investing Advertiser]

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[Tucker Carlson]

You know, there were a lot of cowardly people, as there always are, and Trump engenders cowardice in the people around him through intimidation. And there is a kind of quality that he has that's spellbinding and I think it probably literally is a spell and the effect is to weaken people around him and make them more compliant and more confused. And I've experienced this myself. You spend a day with Trump and sort of like you're in this kind of dreamland. It's like smoking hash or something. It's interesting, very interesting. And there may be a supernatural component to it I'm not a theologian, but it's real. And anyone who's been around him can tell you it's real.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's Tucker Carlson. He did an interview with the New York Times over the weekend in which he said had a bunch of amazing things. We brought you some of them last week. But he, I, well, let me read what Mark Levin tweeted out with a clip. That clip there, Mark Levan, who's got a TV show on Fox and does a radio show. A lot of you know that, folks, Belly Armis.

[Joe Getty]

I tried to knock Jack's phone out of his hand with my own spell. It didn't work.

[Jack Armstrong]

Folks, Carlson is, in my opinion, Folks, Carlson is. That's way Mark Levin talks. Folks. Carlson is, in my opinion, mentally ill. That's the explanation. Not complicated. I didn't think that before. I thought he was just a grifter. That clip there where he sounds completely sincere. I think he has a supernatural power to put spells on people. I mean, that's a crazy thing to say.

[Joe Getty]

Supernatural, late onset psychosis. For Tucker, that's fairly rare. I think I still go. His gift is seeming sincere. I think he's appealing to people who believe that sort of thing. Kind of a magical thinking, conspiracy theory crowd. I sit ready to be corrected that

[Jack Armstrong]

he at various times what he means by spell and supernatural. Because after supernatural, he said, I don't know. I'm not a theologian. Okay, now you're talking about something in the world of God and stuff.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

You throw a theologian. It's not just like which magic stuff stuff. And that comes in in this clip.

[Tucker Carlson]

You cannot mock other people's gods and put yourself in their place, period. That is a deal killer for me. That's worse than the war with Iran, in my opinion.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. But I ask because, you know, you've been talking on your show about whether Trump is the Antichrist.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have not said that.

[Joe Getty]

On your show, the day after Easter, you noted he did not put his hand on the Bible during his swearing ceremony as president. You said, and I'm quoting, maybe he didn't put his hand on the Bible because he affirmatively rejects what's inside that book. And then on a recent show, you went further, saying, here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist?

[Tucker Carlson]

I actually did not say, could this be the Antichrist? Here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist? Well, who knows? I don't know where that comes from, but I know that those words never left my lips because I'm not sure I fully understand what the Antichrist is. If there's just one. I actually tried to understand it. I may have said some are asking that. I'm not weighing in on that because I don't understand it.

[Jack Armstrong]

So because you're listening to this in audio, not watching the video, you couldn't tell there that they, they, they, they went to a clip of Tucker's show in which he clearly obviously said, could Trump be the Antichrist? Then he says, I don't know where you got that. I never said that. So that's where we are, ladies and gentlemen. That's where we are.

[Joe Getty]

Turn on the gas lights, everybody.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, in my ongoing thing about, you don't need to tell the truth because your crowd will not hear the pushback. Doesn't make any difference anymore. Trump may have invented it or figured out the media landscape. I don't know. That's what Gavin Newsom's doing. That's what lots of people are doing. AOC does it all the time. People have figured out nobody's going to hear the pushback, so I can say anything. The people who love Tucker aren't going to watch a New York Times interview with Tucker Carlson on New York Times website, guaranteed.

[Joe Getty]

But those of us who would and think Tucker has either lost his mind or is now a grifter are at least temporarily set back thinking, well, whoa, he just outright denied having said it, in spite of the tape. Could it be AI? Is it a creation? I confused. I don't know. And this is the great aim of propaganda. I don't know what to believe.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm not confused. I think he can just deny it. Like I said, his crowd's not watching this, so he can just roll with it. But that's a heck of a thing that, that seems like the next level to me, is for me to, for you to show me a play audio of me saying something and I just say flat out say, I never said that.

[Joe Getty]

What?

[Jack Armstrong]

What?

[Joe Getty]

Tucker? You know, I'd love to spend enough time to like, chart this out or talk to somebody who's already figured it out, because I'm sure they exist. I used to, when Tucker was on Fox News, I'd watch his show and his opening segment was so good.

[Jack Armstrong]

He's such a good writer. So good. I watched it every single night.

[Joe Getty]

And every show is a masterclass. On how to argue unfairly. But there's got to be like a classical fallacy or description of what he said in his first, the first clip about that Trump can cast a spell, an actual spell. It might be supernatural. I don't know. I'm not a theologian. And so. So he trots out a premise that Trump can cast spells in the way of the supernatural, whether it's, you know, Harry Potter or Satan or whatever.

[Jack Armstrong]

And then

[Joe Getty]

to deflect any possible objection, says, I don't know, I'm not a theologian. Which introduces into the discussion the notion that one must be a theologian to enter an opinion as to whether Trump can cast spells. So that is some real rhetorical Cirque du Soleil tap dance.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and then you get into this. I mean, this is like Candace Owens sort of thing here. He didn't put his hand on the Bible. Why is that? Is it because he rejects everything in there? Oh, come on, give me a break.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, that's. There's an enormous, spectacularly lucrative market for what he's doing. I think that's your explanation, what I

[Jack Armstrong]

was going to say to you. It's funny. It flitted out of my head. Head. If you're a Jim Rome fan, the sports radio host Jim Rome used to always say scoreboard, because like all your complaining about this and that and your arguments. Scoreboard, who had the most points at the end of the game? Who won? Scoreboard for Tucker Carlson is his bank account. Scoreboard. I mean, he might be worth a hundred million dollars. He probably is. He's making more money now than he made at Fox News. Making $20 million a year.

[Joe Getty]

Fox. Yeah, yeah. And. And Candace is making shortstop money.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow. I don't know how you sleep at

[Joe Getty]

night because you have no conscience or you've become completely cynical.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think with Tucker, he's become completely cynical. And I, I could see how you'd get there. I think he's around politics. He was so close to it his whole life and worked for cnn, msnbc, abc. And it worked for everybody. At various points, was around all these politicians. I think he finally got to the. Oh, this whole thing is fake. Everybody's just saying what they need to say to make money. The politicians, the media people, everybody. Okay, now I'm gonna do it.

[Joe Getty]

And I think, like a woman. A woman or a. Well, that was good, Michael. I really enjoy that. Like a woman or a man scorned. I think, and I don't think I'm being naive, I think he actually cared pretty deeply about certain principles for a long time.

[Jack Armstrong]

I do, too. That's why I always watched him in

[Joe Getty]

Reddit him and then realized that the pros that are in charge of government couldn't give an S about those principles. And they only pretend to agree with them, to either drag you along or shut you up. But no, they're, they're completely, wildly cynical. You combine, combine that with a notion that is amoral but understandable, that, look, these people are going to give their money and loyalty to somebody. I could let Candace have the whole pie, or I can join in and make that money, too.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is next level, though. When they play you a tape from your show, it's easily findable. You can go to his website right now and watch him call Trump the Antichrist. And for him to say, I never said that, I mean, that is. We're in a new spot now.

[Joe Getty]

I don't like this spot. You got any other spots I could choose from?

[Jack Armstrong]

Holy crap.

[Joe Getty]

That's why I'm always saying, I'll be in the woods if you need me. I believe these waters to be unnavigable.

[Jack Armstrong]

So this got him a lot of attention and we might as well hear him lay it out on why he. Because we were, we were at the convention, the Republican convention. Tucker got the biggest crowd response of anybody. But, but Trump, when he walked out,

[Joe Getty]

it was like you'd gone to see Robert Plant and Jimmy Page walked on the stage in terms of rapturousness and

[Jack Armstrong]

he was great and he had no notes and anything, and he just walked out there and he winged it and he was fantastic. And now he and Trump have broken and he explains all that now.

[Joe Getty]

80, 80.

[Tucker Carlson]

Truly believe that the baseline requirements, the ticket of admission to the conversation, is admitting when you are wrong. And I spent 10 years defending Trump on Fox News. I'd probably do it again because on the issues, I agree with him. I never said a single, I never defended a single thing I didn't believe. But at this point, the consequences of this decision are so bad for the United States and for my, my family.

[Jack Armstrong]

And therefore he's talking about that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Like you have to say. You just have to say it out loud. Like I'm a small reason. I don't think I'm, I don't think moved a lot of votes, but I tried to. I told people, this guy will keep us out of the next Iraq, specifically, will keep us out of a regime change war with Iran. And here we are in the middle of a regime change war in Iran, where hundreds of Americans have been Wounded, some number have been killed. They won't tell us. And that's just the opposite of what I said would happen. So I'm sorry.

[Jack Armstrong]

He's sorry that he helped play the role in getting Trump elected. Now, I've heard him in interviews. And then other people talk about this. It is about the war in Iraq. Something broke in his brain. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, where he decided, okay, this is all a lie. He feels like because he supported the war with Iraq, he tried to convince people, I think he was at cnn. Then it goes way back.

[Joe Getty]

He.

[Jack Armstrong]

He tried to convince people, no, the war in Iraq is a good idea and here is why. And then when it turned out there were no weapons of mass destruction, all that, he feels like he personally was lied to. Maybe he was. And that's when everything broke for him. He said, okay, okay, this is all, this is all freaking game. You go, okay, well, now I'm gonna do it.

[Joe Getty]

Another interesting Tuckerism there. The whole we don't know, they won't tell us. I think they have told us.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, he's so good at that.

[Joe Getty]

They're like names and addresses. But I ran into some guys who are lapping this stuff up a week or two ago and that sort of thing. Something's been hidden. But you and me, we're way too smart to believe it is so appealing to people, to their egos, their sense of justice. We've talked about it a lot. A word from our friends at Ruff Greens. You love your dog. Of course you love your dog. And you want to have a life together as long as possible. And that's why Ruff Greens is so good. It's all about your dog's nutrition, giving your dog everything they need, need to thrive for a long time that might

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

I got a question for you before we take a break.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Do you believe Tucker thinks Trump might be the Antichrist.

[Joe Getty]

Oh boy.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'll answer while you think I if you'd asked me last week, I'd have said no after hearing that interview. I think maybe he actually believes it. He's a very religious guy, Tucker. I think he actually believes it.

[Joe Getty]

And that would also explain his bizarre, indefensible defense of like Eastern Orthodox religion, including the Russian Orthodox Church. He thinks we're in the cataclysmic battle for good and evil with the the whole woke crowd and Rainbow Trans Coalition people. And yeah, they're brutes, but you got to be a brute to defend Christianity. He might believe that.

[Mike Lyons]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Any thoughts that? Text line 415295 KFTC ARMSTRONG and GETTY.

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[Public Investing Advertiser]

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[Tucker Carlson]

been subject to this is well known, but I'll just confirm it. Nonstop treachery from people on the neoconservative side. Who are these people around Marco Rubio and they have been totally against J.D. vance from the very beginning.

[Mike Lyons]

Who?

[Joe Getty]

Who do you mean specifically?

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, I don't know is the real answer. I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

You're accusing people of treachery, so I'm wonder.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I know there's been a lot of treachery for sure, and I know they've been. They were so mad about J.D. getting that job. I mean, they.

[Joe Getty]

Who's they within the White House?

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't, you know, I don't know the answer to that. I've never worked there. So, like, if you don't work there, you can say you, you know, you can say what you think you know, but it's hard to really know.

[Joe Getty]

This is me looking skeptical.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, no, but it's me being honest. Like I don't really know.

[Jack Armstrong]

Tucker is so good at that sort of thing. Tucker Carlson we played the clip earlier where he said Trump might be the Antichrist. Then he said, I've never said that. Then they played a clip of him saying it and he said that wasn't me. So I don't know what's going on there. Well, I think I know what's going on there. We got a number of responses on the text line from people who just agree with our take on Tucker that he's either crazy or a grifter, but then plenty of these too. The deep state is big, broad, deep and real. That's who Trump and the good people are fighting. The Deep State State mainstream media, entertainment programming like tv, movies, news and radio. Are you guys blind or are you part of it? A lot of that sort of thing,

[Joe Getty]

you got to connect dots. You just don't just throw aspersions at us.

[Jack Armstrong]

But you're on one side or the other, either on Tucker and Candace's side or you're on the bad side and suggesting we're on the bad side.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, you're artificially putting up who's on the good side and who's on the bad side. Dividing lines. But. But thanks anyway. Yeah, well, speaking of casting spells and that sort of thing, evidently Megan the Stallion fans are pissed off at NBA star Klay Thompson for breaking up with her and have begun employing Etsy witches to cast curses on him. That's a thing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Who's he play for now? Michael? He went to the Mavericks. Is he still there after he left Golden State winning several championship?

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, he's still with the Mavs. Yeah. Yeah. 36 years old, the hot girl Summer rapper confirmed Saturday that she split from the Mavericks star after less than a year together and her fans wasted no time going from heartbreak to hex, as they say in the always entertaining New York Post requesting the help of witches online.

[Jack Armstrong]

I like when you say it in that tone. Klay Thompson, quite the ladies man, apparently. And she, she broke up with him for infidelity, apparently. I know this is shocking out of an NBA player, but apparent apparently he had other girlfriends at the same time he was dating her, which is unimaginable in the world of professional sports.

[Joe Getty]

You wouldn't think that.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, you wouldn't.

[Joe Getty]

And I quote, cheating had me around your whole family playing house. Got cold feet, she wrote, holding you down through all your horrible mood swings and treatment towards me during your basketball season. Now you don't know if you can be monogamous. Oof. Well, somebody treats your favorite star like that. What else do you do than to go on Etsy? Source your revenge to Etsy witches,

[Jack Armstrong]

one

[Joe Getty]

fan wrote alongside a video of a woman stabbing a voodoo doll courtside. Currently talking to my friends on the other side. And the Etsy witches have been called Klay Thompson. You're done, Klay Thompson. Your Achilles tendon will begin to ache in three days, one person eerily warned, while another claimed quote just paid an Etsy Witch Clay Alexander Thompson. You will be dealt with.

[Jack Armstrong]

So there are layers to this?

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

If you run into someone like this, one, they believe in witches. Two, they believe that they can cast spells by buying some paraphernalia on Etsy.

[Joe Getty]

Well, you buy the spells on Etsy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Three, if they have this power, they use it whenever one of their favorite music artists breaks up with their boyfriend. Which seems like pretty low bar for casting spells.

[Joe Getty]

Here's one person that requested of the Etsy witch to give Klay Thompson deer legs. By tomorrow morning, he'd be fat.

[Jack Armstrong]

Nobody could catch him.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, but. But he'd constantly spin out on the court. He'd have no ability to change. It's like you ever seen a deer on a blacktop. Yeah, they scramble and fall. Yeah, I could. I could give him the legs of a beast, but it's gonna cost you 50.

[Jack Armstrong]

And again, you have this power and when you use it is when one of your favorite singer stars has a relationship problem. Not for anything other good thing that you could do with your spells, but.

[Joe Getty]

Well, no, no, the fans hire the witches. The witches will do it for the money. They don't care who's with who. They're. They're professionals, Jack. It's like an attorney. I mean, not like my client, but I. I took it off.

[Jack Armstrong]

Gotcha. If you missed a segment of this show, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on demand.

[Mike Lyons]

We do lots of them AR Armstrong and Getty.

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Mike Lyons]

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[Joe Getty]

See site for details.