Zombie Grandma

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode Title: Zombie Grandma
Date: November 14, 2025
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into society’s growing entanglement with artificial intelligence, especially in the realm of relationships and “bringing back” lost loved ones through AI avatars. Jack and Joe debate the psychological and ethical implications of new technologies—like AI chatbots for romantic partners and digital “resurrections” of deceased relatives—mixing their characteristic wit with sincere concerns about the blurring of life’s boundaries. The show also touches on California’s proposed billionaire tax, the national conversation on affordability, a Mafia-linked sports betting scandal, and the persistent controversy around the Epstein files.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI Relationships and "Zombie Grandma" (00:28 - 10:27)

AI Romantic Partners

• Joe notes the New York Times’ coverage of people in relationships with AI chatbots, calling it “heartbreaking” and joking about being left for "Jeeves" (00:28).
• Jack emphasizes how troubling the phenomenon is:

  "A lot of people have brought that up to me. Troubling. Very troubling." (00:49)

The “Two Way” App—AI and the Deceased

• Joe introduces Two Way, an app that builds AI avatars of deceased loved ones using video and voice samples:

  “They would make an AI of [my dad] so I could talk to him. An avatar, yeah … talking to you in their voice and the facial expressions and all of it.” (01:22)

• The hosts play an example and react:

  "Thanks, Robot Granny. ... It creeped the hell out of me." (02:24, Joe)
  “Is this for you and do you feel like you’ve got a connection with your grandma, or does that just make you extra sad that she’s not around? I don’t get that at all.” (04:03, Jack)

Ethical, Psychological, and Social Implications

• Joe suggests these tools interfere with the "basic rhythms of life" (04:35), comparing them to how “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” lost its specialness when available year-round.
• Jack is especially concerned about exposing children to such technology:

  "They should take your kids away from you. If you're gonna have fake grandma talk to your little kid ..." (05:01)

Black Mirror & Public Response

• Joe references the Black Mirror episode "Be Right Back" (05:40), noting public backlash describing the technology as “nightmare fuel” and “demonic”.

Hosts’ Consensus (with Humor)

• Both conclude simulating lost loved ones feels more disturbing than comforting and that using such tech with young children is irresponsible.
• Joe jokes about a future where a robot version of Grandpa comes back only to do chores:

  “You look out into your front yard, and there’s your old dead grandpa raking leaves.” (07:03, Joe)

Skeptical Yet Self-Aware

• Jack ponders if they are outliers or whether there's really an appetite for “zombie grandma” apps:

  “Are they presenting this to people and people are saying, ‘Oh, that’d be so fantastic that my son who never got to meet my dad, grandpa could have an interaction with him?’ Are people doing that?” (08:02)

• Joe adds nuance: the idea of an AI speaking in a deceased loved one's voice, saying familiar things, might be “kind of nice”—but not pretending the relative is alive or interacting in real time:

  "But no, I don’t want it pretending to wonder how my day went.” (09:22)

Historical Figures as AI: A Different Appeal

• The pair agree that AI interactions with historical figures (like “Living Lincoln”) would be interesting and fundamentally different:

  “That I would do. That is very, very cool.” (10:12, Jack)

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2. Society, AI, and Human Behavior (11:36 - 13:18)

The Prevalence of “Weirdness”

• Jack asserts that society contains far more people with “unconventional” desires than one might think, cautioning against underestimating how technology—like AI partners and relatives—might catch on:

  "So I need to keep that in mind with the percentage of people that might fall in love with chatbots or want AI grandma ..." (11:36)

Potential Societal Consequences

• Joe wonders, semi-seriously, if this is a kind of Darwinian thinning:

  “Those people are not going to reproduce." (13:06)

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3. California’s Proposed Billionaire Tax (14:44 - 18:06)

Overview of the Proposal

• California considers a one-time 5% tax on net worths over $1 billion, targeting stocks, IP, and artwork.
• Jack critiques it as a move to drive out successful innovators:

  "It almost seems like it's designed to make whoever hasn't gotten gone to Texas yet ... leave California" (15:49)

• Joe and Jack question the underlying ideology, noting California’s significant billionaire population and suggesting a reasonable value-added tax as an alternative (17:20).

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4. The National Conversation on Affordability (18:16 - 24:22)

Political Posturing and Real Costs

• The conversation shifts to affordability, with both hosts noting Washington is now tying inflation and cost-of-living issues to illegal immigration—a new rhetorical angle.
• They highlight the lived experience of high prices (e.g., $65 for a family dinner at Denny’s) and the increasing burden of insurance costs:
  • Car insurance for a 19-year-old: $560/month (22:23)
  • Bare minimum coverage for a 13-year-old Honda Fit: $187/month (23:09)
• Jack:

  "Eggs schmegs. Quit talking about the price of eggs. My car insurance is killing me." (24:11)

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5. Viewer Feedback & The Epstein Files Debate (24:22 - 32:43)

Increased Criticism Within the GOP

• Discussion about Marjorie Taylor Greene and rising intra-party criticism regarding the Epstein files and other issues.

Listener Emails and the Nature of Accusations

• Hosts defend their “nothing burger” stance regarding what’s been made public about the Epstein files, while distinguishing between true prosecutable offenses and conspiratorial thinking:

  "Are you talking about the giant child pedo ring that all of Hollywood is involved in ... You're nuts. None of that happened or is happening." (30:43, Jack)

  • Joe alludes to the dangers of publicizing names without real evidence, and both express openness to being proven wrong if substantial evidence arises.

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6. Mars Missions, Sports Betting Scandal, and AI Legal Risks (32:51 - End)

Blue Origin Rocket Launch

• Brief coverage of Blue Origin’s Mars mission and the mile-high club joke about Katy Perry (33:19).

Sports Betting Mafia Scandal

• Fourteen indicted in a Mafia-tied betting operation centered on college sports, including wrestlers and an NBA agent:

  "Forget about it. You put him in a fireman's carry in the third period..." (34:15, Jack, in a Mafia pastiche)

Legal Risks of AI Hallucinations

• A Minnesota company suffers “cancellation” after AI-generated misinformation. Jack and Joe question whether existing slander laws can keep up with AI mistakes.

  "This could end the whole AI thing. Depending on the court rulings, might be the end of AI..." (36:11, Jack)

Upcoming Topics Teased

• Future segment: Republican healthcare platform issues.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On AI Avatars of Deceased Loved Ones:

  “It's not for grandma. Grandma's dead and that ain't grandma talking.” (04:03, Jack)

• On Societal Rhythms:

  "It's like when Rudolph the red nosed reindeer became available year round ... You're blowing up the rhythms that make life worth living." (04:35, Joe)

• On Introducing “Zombie Grandma” to Kids:

  “They should take your kids away from you. If you're gonna have fake grandma talk to your little kid who doesn't have the ability to really understand what the hell is going on here." (05:01, Jack)

• On AI and Real-Life Utility:

  "I've got ... a perfect replica robot of [Grandpa] killing two birds with one stone." (07:03, Joe)

• On Societal Appetite for Weird Technology:

  "There are way more crazy people than you ever thought ... there might be way more of them than I think. Way more." (11:36, Jack)

• On California’s Wealth Tax:

  "It's just, you're super rich and have a bunch of stuff so we're going to take 5% of it." (15:33, Joe)

• On Affordability:

  "Eggs schmegs. Quit talking about the price of eggs. My car insurance is killing me." (24:11, Jack)

• On Epstein Files Conspiracies:

  "Are you talking about the giant child pedo ring that all of Hollywood is involved in ... You're nuts." (30:43, Jack)

• On AI and Legal Challenges:

  "This could end the whole AI thing. Depending on the court rulings, might be the end of AI..." (36:11, Jack)

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Segment Timestamps

• AI and “Zombie Grandma”/Two Way App: 00:28 – 10:27
• Society, AI, and Human Weirdness: 11:36 – 13:18
• California Billionaire Tax: 14:44 – 18:06
• Affordability Discussion: 18:16 – 24:22
• Epstein Files, Listener Emails: 24:22 – 32:43
• Mars Mission, Sports Scandal, AI Legal Dilemma: 32:51 – End

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Final Thoughts

Jack and Joe bring humor, skepticism, and a little unease to the conversation about AI’s encroachment on personal and societal boundaries. Their honest, unscripted reactions, especially regarding the use of AI to simulate dead loved ones (“Zombie Grandma”), bring up profound questions about grief, reality, and the potential for technology to both comfort and disturb. The episode’s tonal shifts—from deadpan jokes to genuine philosophical pondering—make the discussion thought-provoking and, as always, entertaining.

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For more engaging—and unsettling—takes on current events and technology, tune in to Armstrong & Getty On Demand.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at.

[Joe Getty]

The George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

The New York Times last week published a profile on three people who were in romantic relationships with AI Chatbots. It's heartbreaking. And I know I had a girlfriend in college who left me for Jeeves. It's my fault. I remember one time I said, go ask someone else, and that was it.

[Jack Armstrong]

AI relationships. We talked a lot about that earlier in the week. If you didn't catch that, that was really. I'd forgotten about that. Was that last week, whenever we did the. The New York Times had the profile of three different people that were in AI relationships. I guess that was a week ago last Friday, but that was. A lot of people have brought that up to me. Troubling. Very troubling.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think that's just beginning.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And speaking obviously it's just beginning. I think it will grow and grow and grow until human beings are unrecognizable. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Speaking of that sort of thing, what is this basically we're about to hear? Michael?

[Joe Getty]

What this is, is there's a new app called Two Way, and they basically take three minutes of video, let's say, and then let me talk to my deceased loved ones so I could take. My dad recently passed away, so I could take three minutes of video, send it to him, and then they would make an AI of him so I could talk to him. An avatar. An avatar, yeah, you know, talking to you in. In their voice and the facial expressions and all of it. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. This is an example of that.

[Joe Getty]

He's getting bigger.

[Jack Armstrong]

See?

[Joe Getty]

Oh, honey, that's wonderful. Kicking like crazy. He's listening.

[Jack Armstrong]

Put your hand on your tummy and hum to him.

[Joe Getty]

You used to love that. Hi, Grandma. Hey, Charlie. How was school today? It was really fun. Look who's gonna be a great grandmother. Oh, Charlie, congratulations. She says that he's been kicking a lot, though. Tell her to put her hand on her tummy and hum to him. You love.

[Jack Armstrong]

He already said that. Robot.

[Joe Getty]

You would have loved this moment.

[Jack Armstrong]

You can call any time.

[Joe Getty]

Thanks, Robot Granny. Wow. You know, it's funny. I was reading about this and thinking, you know, that's a little odd when I heard Granny. Oh, that's wonderful, Charlie. It creeped the hell out of me. In 2020, Kanye gave Kim Kardashian. Kardashian. A hologram message of her late father for her birthday. So if it's good enough for Kanye.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I'm trying to think of this in real life. Would I get any pleasure slash enjoyment out of, you know, my parents are alive, but let's assume one of them has passed and they didn't get to meet my kids. Would I have gotten any enjoyment out of having a fake video that looked and sounded like my dad saying, you know, here's, you should go up and play catch with him and stuff like that? Or that just make me incredible.

[Joe Getty]

Henry, how's school going?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Before I even introduce Henry to him, just talking about myself. Would that make me happy and fill me with, like, my dad's getting to meet my son. I wish he were here. Or just make me unbearably sad, like really diving into the fact that he's not here. I just, I. I don't feel like it would give me comfort or make me happier in any way.

[Joe Getty]

Maybe it's genetic or something. But I have the same reaction I would have to a quote, unquote. Quote, unquote, AI girlfriend slash lover. I'd think, wow, this is a weird simulacrum of real life and it's making me uncomfortable. And that's just for me because I.

[Jack Armstrong]

Assume that that's what was going on there with the pregnant woman. Grandma's not around, so now Grandma's getting to talk to you about your pregnancy and can you feel the baby kick and stuff like that? Does that make you feel good? I mean, who's this for? It's not for grandma. Grandma's dead and that ain't grandma talking. So is this for you and do you feel like you've got a connection with your grandma, or does that just make you extra sad that she's not around? I don't, I don't get that at all. Who's being, who's enjoying this in this scenario? Katie, do you understand? Maybe I'm missing something.

[Joe Getty]

I hate this. But I also feel like it's stripping away a part of life. Like, I learned a lot of lessons when my grandparents passed away and, you know, that whole, you know, we lose people and it's kind of making that blurry. Wow, that's a great insight. It is removing one of the basic rhythms of life. It's like when Rudolph the red nosed reindeer became available year round. It just. You're blowing up the rhythms that make life worth living.

[Jack Armstrong]

Now. That's for the adults. That's like for me to have my dad, if he were dead, come back and talk to me about my son. I just Think that would make me sadder rather than comforted? Now, to the kid that makes you. They should take your kids away from you. If you're gonna have fake grandma talk to your little kid who doesn't have the ability to really understand what the hell is going on here.

[Joe Getty]

The segment brought to you by Two Way, that is the Apple Store.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is horrible. Having your little kid here talk to fake grandma. Are you gonna pretend she's alive? Or are you gonna try to convince that talking to robot people is a thing? What are you doing?

[Joe Getty]

I know, I know. So they put this video online. Try the two way beta on the app store. Android coming soon. And immediately, people drew comparisons to an unsettling 2013 episode of Black Mirror entitled Be Right Back, in which a grieving woman uses an AI replica of her dead partner. Social media users did not hold back. Many called the videos Nightmare Fuel demonic, and some claim the technology should be destroyed. Nightmare Fuel? Yeah, the whole, hey, son, talk to phone app Grandma, she wants to hear about your big math test. Yeah, you really ought to have your kids taken away.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes. So most of this stuff is presented to us, you think? Well, if that worked, I could conceive of wanting that. Like the robot we were talking about last hour. Hour one, the Tesla robot. If it can mow the lawn, fold the laundry, I don't know, rake the leaves, you could see how that possibly might be something you want in this. One.

[Joe Getty]

Are.

[Jack Armstrong]

Are most people reacting to. Oh, that sounds great. How soon can I get fake dead relatives talking to me, or is everybody reacting like us? One, that would make me sadder, not happier. And two, I'm not introducing it to my kids because it's going to twist their little minds.

[Joe Getty]

All right, you're. You're just. You're failing to see the future. I'm combining both concepts. I've got you look out into your front yard, and there's your old dead grandpa raking leaves. A perfect replica robot of him killing two birds with one stone. Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

So, yes, we could bring Grandpa back to life. What we do is have him do manual labor around the house to free us up to do other things.

[Joe Getty]

Both heartwarming and practical. It's the new Getty Bot Boy.

[Jack Armstrong]

If I could bring my dad back, I'd have him rake along so I could watch his football game.

[Joe Getty]

Tell, like a great Al, need help around the house.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, exactly.

[Joe Getty]

So clearly the final chapter of humanity.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, if my mom were just here.

[Joe Getty]

Today, she could load the dishwasher so.

[Jack Armstrong]

I could go out to the bar.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, My God. Oh, Lord. All right, we need to stop.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow, that's. What a. What an odd thing. Do they think they're presenting and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm an outlier. I'm often an outlier on things. Are they presenting this to people and people are saying, oh, that'd be so fantastic that my son who never got to meet my dad, grandpa could have an interaction with him. Are people doing that?

[Joe Getty]

Feeling that way? No, no, that the, the interactive part is the bizarre and demonic part to me. Excuse me. If you could. I mean, if you could have like a super realistic based on their actual voice from videos, that sort of thing. Cause that, that's what this does. Like my mom, who I. If I could have her, this has come together in my mind in real time, either saying things that she frequently said or said in the video in a rapidly accessible form. Like, I suppose I could put a video clip on my phone. I mean, just like to have my mom with my mom's voice saying what she used to say that I could see instead of just a still photograph in a readily accessible form. That would be kind of nice. But no, I don't want it. Pretending to wonder how my day went. Yeah, this is an extreme.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I don't know. I didn't think that people would get into relationships with chatbots. And a lot more people are doing it than I realized. So maybe that crowd would be happier in heck to have fake grandma pretending to care about near unborn child.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so I'm. I'm there at the two way brain trust meeting, and our zombie grandma thing just didn't sell. Here's my next concept. Historical figures, carefully crafted based on all their writing and speaking, everything that's known about them, their how their voice was described contemporaneously. Washington would probably have a fairly regal British accent, somewhat softened by his time here in the colonies, that sort of thing. Talk to Abe Lincoln. That, that would be interesting.

[Jack Armstrong]

That I would do. That is very, very cool.

[Joe Getty]

But that.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's a completely different thing than agreed. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Look, we. We poured all this money into a zombie grandma. We gotta. We gotta come up with something to make some profits. So I'm going with Living Lincoln we're gonna call it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Man, I wish my grandma was still alive so she could watch the kids so I can go to this concert tonight.

[Joe Getty]

Wait, now you can? Speaking of technology, you know, it spikes faster than pumpkin spice lattes this time of year. Cybercrime hackers love the holidays.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is true.

[Joe Getty]

Fake shipping emails, sketchy social media stores, even too good to be true Black Friday deals. And then they snatch up your info.

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Webroot.com Armstrong One thing I've been saying for years to people about this job is it it made me realize there's way more crazy people than you think there are. So if you live kind of a regular life and you bump up with against mostly regular people your entire life, you have a certain concept of what people are like. And then doing this job used to just be letters, then it was email, now email and texts and now social media interaction with the show. There are way more crazy people than you ever thought because you don't run into them out there in the real world. So. And. Or irrational. Yeah, crazy. I'm using a very vague version of crazy people that are way different than you are. Like way different than you are. There's a lot more of them than you think. And so I need to keep that in mind with the percentage of people that might fall in love with chatbots or want AI grandma to talk to their kid or give them comforting advice about life or whatever. There might be way more of them than I think. Way more. And what, what percentage would you need to have before it kind of upends society? If 5% of society is doing only on robot grandmas and robot relationships, what does that do to things? I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

Is this some sort of Darwinian thinning of the herd?

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

Those people are not going to reproduce. Just clicked in my head.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that's an interesting thought. And maybe, maybe a net positive.

[Joe Getty]

Probably not, but maybe.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. They can't reproduce. They won't. Certainly.

[Joe Getty]

Let me ask my robot Lincoln. Well, in my opinion, four score. So much fun.

[Jack Armstrong]

Check in with the stock market. That went way down yesterday. Down pretty decent Today, what's it all about is the big question. Lots of other stuff to talk about. Stay here.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

California going to be the first state to with a a billionaires penalty. At least that's going to be a prop that we vote on. Stay tuned for details on that.

[Joe Getty]

And Speaking of big money, 14 arrested in New Jersey yesterday on a new in a new sports betting scandal. So stay tuned for those details. They are literally flying off the shelves at the Armstrong and Getty superstore. The T shirt that is emblazoned in lovely fashion with Ruin the entire Country Newsom 2028.

[Jack Armstrong]

You laugh, I laugh.

[Joe Getty]

Or if you prefer your emphasis on entire Ruin the Entire Country Newsom 2028. People are loving them.

[Jack Armstrong]

And that's flying off the shelves. It's like one of the hottest items we've ever had in our store.

[Joe Getty]

What the hell is going on? I can't wait to wear mine. I cannot wait. So this, I'm gonna be like a little kid with a Superman costume. I'm gonna wear it to sleep. I'm gonna wear it when I get up in the morning. I'm going to cry when I have to take it off to take a shower.

[Jack Armstrong]

To Gavin Newsom's credit, which I rarely say, he actually opposes this new union backed ballot measure aimed at billionaires. I think it's because he's running for president. Although the Elizabeth Warren AOC Bernie Sanders wing might come after him for opposing this. But anyway, here's the idea behind it. This ballot initiative proposed by health care workers unions would take aim at the richest people in the richest state with a one time 5% tax on net worth over a billion dollars. This would mean pursuing assets like stocks, artwork, intellectual property in addition to income and everything else.

[Joe Getty]

It's just you are super Richard and obscene.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're super rich and have a bunch of stuff. So we're going to take 5% of it.

[Joe Getty]

Intellectual property. So like a patent or the hell.

[Jack Armstrong]

It almost seems like it's designed to make whoever hasn't gotten gone to Texas yet like Elon Musk leave California to get Zuckerberg. And is Altman already in Texas? Who? All your big players, Google, whoever. To force them to leave the state.

[Joe Getty]

I think you would see a mass exodus of the biggest names in tech. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

This proposal represents a reading from the Wall Street Journal. This proposal represents an unprecedented effort to tax modern wealth. Now they need 875,000 signatures. But I've seen crazier things happen in the 30 years that I've been In California, I never thought we'd get driver's licenses for illegals. Was laughable in the beginning, then became just a thing. So maybe taxing billionaires for the fact that they've accumulated that much wealth and driving them out of the state will become a thing too. In terms of billionaires by state, California is way the leader. California has an estimated 255 billionaires, more than any other state and almost a quarter of the US total. Let's take their stuff, let's take their money. Because how dare they? How dare they, right?

[Joe Getty]

How they dare. They come up with something that everybody wants, we'll punish them for that.

[Jack Armstrong]

What a weird way to look at the world that. That by definition, because they're billionaires, they deserve to give us more money. And they've probably done something wrong to get that money because there's no way you become a billionaire playing fair.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you see the entire world through the lens of victim and an oppressor and everybody is one or the other, it's easy to figure out what a a billionaire would be. By the way, this is a wasted breath, but a val. A reasonable value added tax would take care of virtually every objection in the left, right and center to the tax code where expenditures are taxed, period. Because I know what they're driving at. The wealthy. They borrow against the value of their stocks and they spend that money and they don't have to list it as income, blah, blah, blah. Value added tax would solve that. But again, it's wasted, wasted breath. It'll never happen. Because our tax code exists to a engineer society to some extent and B hand out favors to the powerful.

[Jack Armstrong]

Affordability is the word of the day, word of the week, word of the month, maybe the word of the next several years. We can talk about that among other things coming up.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. Things are getting better. As a presidential signature reopened the government, the President's mind jumped to the midterms. When we come up to midterms and.

[Jack Armstrong]

Other things, don't forget what they've done to our country.

[Joe Getty]

Vice President Vance is rolling out the latest messaging on affordability, tying high prices to high rates of illegal immigration. A lot of young people are saying housing is way too expensive. Why is that? Because we flooded the country with 30 million illegal immigrants who were taking houses that ought by right go to American citizens.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I think the tying illegal immigration to rents and housing prices is a bit of a stretch. And one of the reasons I think that is it's a brand new argument that Just landed all of a sudden after getting killed in the elections last Tuesday, around the issue of affordability. And everybody's talking about it and, and it's such a clear win. If you can make it seem like illegal immigration caused it, well, that's something we're good at and it wasn't our fault.

[Joe Getty]

Well, and as a couple of immigration hawks ourselves, it's not a non factor in housing, but to go there first is just silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

Certainly a brand new argument. Yeah, I don't remember ever saying that before.

[Joe Getty]

I've heard that in urban areas, you know, drives up the rents and that sort of thing, but yeah, to say that that's the number one reason is just silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

I just mean out of the Trump White House, I don't remember ever hearing them use that as the reason. Seems like a brand new argument that they've ruled out, which is politically maybe clever. This whole concept of a national conversation. You hear this sometimes when people say we need to have a national conversation about. We need to have a conversation in this country about race or whatever it is. And I quite understood what it is, but I guess it's just the, the chattering going on and in the air.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Or on your computer and articles here and there and what podcasts are saying and what radio talk show hosts like us are saying and whatever people are saying, I guess that's what a national conversation is. And I think it's definitely a good thing. If we're going to have a national conversation about affordability just all the way around and make that the number one topic, I think that's a damn good idea because things are really expensive and I don't know what the prescription is for fixing this. I think acknowledging the fact that it's true, since whoever's in power has a great motivation to pretend it's not true. Joe Biden claiming that inflation. No, there is no inflation. Okay, there is, but it won't be here long. Or things are, things are actually great out there. And when they weren't. And then Donald Trump the other day saying, you know, I'm not. We have the best economy in the world and I'm not getting credit for it. Well, at least prior to yesterday, we were setting records every day on the stock market. But that doesn't make any difference. When you go to the grocery store, you go to Denny's like I did last Saturday night with my kids, and it's $65 for us to eat at Denny's.

[Joe Getty]

I mean, what the hell. Yeah. Oh yeah. Affluent people are going around saying my God, everything's so exp in the base of the maga base. It's, you know, maybe not panic, might overstate it, but it's not too many steps below panic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So brought up insurance because somebody had mentioned in an email everybody talks about eggs and coffee and rent, but nobody talks about car insurance and homeowners insurance. It's just incredible. Those are things you need to have if you need a home. If you own a home, you have to have it. Car insurance, for instance. We got a couple of texts. This is from somebody in Carson City. Thanks for listening to us on the Reno station. Probably their 19 year old son just passed a driver's test and he said that's a whole other story. While kids are getting their driver's licenses so much later. 19. I know that's more and more common now, but man, I got my driver's license. Well, I got it at 14 but in Kansas at the time. But God, there's no way I would have waited until I was 19 to get my driver's license.

[Joe Getty]

I would have endured a whipping every day for six weeks if it got me my driver's license.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. No kidding.

[Joe Getty]

I was 16. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Anyway, talking about the car insurance for their kid. 560amonth or for six months. It's $3,360 for a 19 year old to have car insurance on the car that they got him.

[Joe Getty]

Great Scott.

[Jack Armstrong]

560Amonth.

[Joe Getty]

Oh my gosh.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean most of us going back in the day, if you gonna buy a car with and make car payments, you just thought about the car payment. You didn't think about the insurance because it was gonna be something but you didn't really need. It wasn't enough to really factor in. Now you have to look at it like the best. Like the car payment. It might be more than the car payment.

[Joe Getty]

You've got to just strip everything down to liability and like insuring the other driver and if you plow into them or whatever because that's just. It's not. It's a non starter.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Here's another example. I have a 2012 Honda Fit and I pay 187amonth for the bare minimum insurance. They'll let me get almost $200 a month for a probably paid off 13 year old small car.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Jack Armstrong]

So yeah. When it comes to affordability, I don't know what can be done about homeowners insurance and car insurance. You know, I don't even want to say this out loud. I'm a renter. Currently, renters insurance is still ridiculously cheap.

[Joe Getty]

Oh yeah?

[Jack Armstrong]

Why is renters insurance so freaking cheap?

[Joe Getty]

It's just your stuff.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's not the structure, I guess.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, your, your, your evil clutching landlord has to pay that. Although it's in your rent, as anybody with any economic sense understands. Yeah, yeah. Hey, getting back, you know, I'd like to take. Talk more about car insurance and homeowners insurance, but they're kind of different beasts and a lot of complexity there, A lot of layers of regulation.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, sure, they're different beasts, but they are left out of the conversation. You know, like I said earlier, eggs schmegs. Quit talking about the price of eggs. My car insurance is killing me.

[Joe Getty]

I'll eat oatmeal, but I got to insure my car. Yeah, agreed. Completely. Getting back to our previous topic, which doesn't matter, it doesn't need to be reset. But folks within MAGA or certainly the Republican Party, the Republican base being unhappy with the president and vocally so, is definitely on the increase, whether it's the Epstein thing, which we were gonna circle back to, not to discuss it at length, but we got the inevitable couple of emails and texts from people who are just really unhappy with us.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm looking at CBS News. They're interviewing Marjorie Taylor Greene right now. She's on there talking about the Epstein files and she's hardcore. These things need to be released and it's the big story on C. CBS right now.

[Joe Getty]

Well, she's also hardcore denouncing the recent aid to Argentina, but she's as mag.

[Jack Armstrong]

As you can get or I don't even know what that means anymore. Has MAGA now, Has MAGA now become a thing separate from Trump, I guess is the question.

[Joe Getty]

That is the question. Yeah, absolutely. Trump says, no, I, I invented it. So what I say goes. That's. It's mostly true, but not entirely. But MGT is. MTG is also hardcore on. What was the other one? Oh, extending the Obamacare subsidy. Absolutely horrific things. Something we're going to get into during hour three of the show. So stay tuned. But then they, they name check in the Washington Post and it's pretty even handed article. It's not like liberal journalism that there's definitely more open criticism. Your Thomas Massey's, your Marjorie Taylor greens. Trump upset a lot of people when he was pushing for more H1B visas the other day saying we don't have enough talented people in the country. We need to import workers. That caused at least a mini flap where this Goes, nobody knows. Events, dear boy, events. As the old English statesman once said.

[Jack Armstrong]

I forget who I was watching last night. Somebody else who was more MAGA than Trump in our government and thinking, if it's kind of like AI, you know, inventing AI, you could be the researcher that invented AI. But then it goes off on its own, the alignment problem, and it's really its own thing now and you're not in charge. I wonder if MAGA is going to be like that as a movement. Trump invented it and everything and he had control over for quite a while, but now it's kind of off, on, off, on, off, on off on its own and it's going to do its own thing and you're, you know, be out of office in three years and it'll be whatever it's going to be, right?

[Joe Getty]

Well, heck, the history of political movements is often the guy who led the charge ends up on the gallows or separated from his noggin or whatever. That's why you kill all your rivals in that sort of system. But, but don't forget, MAGA was my idea. Trump told Laura Ingraham the other day. Laura Ingram. MAGA was nobody else's idea. I know what MAGA wants better than anybody else. Same day, or I guess it was the next day, he called the Jeffrey Epstein hoax a distraction pushed by Democrats and said that only a very bad or stupid Republican would fall into that trap. You know, Trump could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and get away with it with a lot of his base, but I don't think he can call him stupid and get away with it. But.

[Jack Armstrong]

We did get a text about the Epstein files that fits in with several we've gotten. Every time you attempt to sweep the Epstein files under the rug or minimize the story and more information implicating Trump comes out, you two just look like fools covering up for the actions of a pedophile, or at least a close buddy of a convicted pedophile.

[Joe Getty]

You know, that's funny that. That doesn't bother me at all. That's just factually incorrect. I've gone through everything that's been released so far and it's, it is a nothing burger with air fries. It's just nothing. On the other hand, we get emails like the one from Ben in Texas, who, I'll summarize. First time I have been disgusted by your take on something. I can't even imagine being one of the many Epstein survivors who publicly come out and said there were other rich and powerful abusers who have been named in police And FBI reports that for some reason have faced zero consequences. And we would like that to change only to hear radio hosts call their pleas dumb and a nothing burger. No, if survivors are actually saying that we have and never would call them dumb and a nothing burger, it's the greater scandal and the call by hypocritical politicians. Hypocritical politicians to release the files that they've had in their possessions for years and years. That is fake. And on the substance of your note, Ben, and I don't mind you being upset and disagreeing. That's fine. We can absolutely still be friends. I don't think people fully realize how awful it would be if every person named in every investigation, the authorities came out and said it publicly. So there's very little evidence you did anything bad or practically none, but you were named in the investigation. Maybe there's some evidence that you may have been up to something bad, but there's nothing close to prosecutable levels of information to have the FBI come out and name, you know, Jack Armstrong and Katie Green as part of a sex trafficking investigation when in fact you were cleared or more. They just, you know, there was no evidence really, to look further.

[Jack Armstrong]

You were never going to be charged with anything. Right.

[Joe Getty]

That. That would be horrific.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, as. As you've been pointing out from the beginning of the Epstein story, what are we talking about here? So are we talking about our. I'll just use some names that have been floated out there. Bill Gates, Adam Dershowitz, Ehud Barak, former prime minister of Israel. Were they knowingly having sex with underage women and got away with it? If they were and you could prove it, then you ought to go after him. But are you talking about the. And I think a lot of you are, because I know some of you. Are you talking about the giant child pedo ring that all of Hollywood is involved in and Michelle Obama and the Clintons and blah, blah, blah. You're nuts. None of that happened or is happening. That doesn't exist. And if that's what you're talking about, and I know a lot of you are, we're not covering up anything because that's fake. That is completely phony.

[Joe Getty]

So final word.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's not a real thing.

[Joe Getty]

Final word to Ben in Texas. Ben, you made it perfectly clear you don't believe what Jack was talking about. So you're not in that group. If there are people so wealthy and powerful that the authorities dare not charge them with statutory rape, for instance, or sex trafficking, but there's mountains of evidence against them. I would agree 100% with you that we need to get to the bottom of that and it must come out one way or another. But both parties have had a good solid shot at the information for a long time and the opportunity to bring down each other's, you know, sacred cows. And they haven't done it yet.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I was watching MSNBC last night. They focus of their our news program was the Epstein thing and they had a panel of people on there, including our friend David Drucker, who's now with the dispatch, and he kind of threw cold water on their conversation when he said, you know, a lot of these emails they mentioned Trump and it's kind of exciting to see Trump's name and everything, but he said nothing implicates him in anything at all yet, so. And, and yeah, we're pretty far down the road of this. Lots and lots of emails and details and information and still nothing close.

[Joe Getty]

Not even a concrete leak. Right, right. Which just tells me there's nothing there. Although, Ben, we certainly could be wrong. It's funny that you should bring up the Trump involvement, which I'd kind of almost forgotten about as we were talking about the others. Just another one of these six to eight different versions of the Epstein that people are coming at this with that point of view.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, for the left, which again, msnbc, this is their lead story all week long, it's all about Trump's involvement and there's just nothing there.

[Joe Getty]

Have fun, Rachel. Have fun, Rachel.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, we got more on the way. Stay here.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty lift off for a massive Blue Origin rocket.

[Jack Armstrong]

The company's new Glenn rocket now making.

[Joe Getty]

Its way to Mars with a pair of NASA spacecraft.

[Jack Armstrong]

The rocket launch, its mission to Mars.

[Joe Getty]

Is the first major test for the space company owned by Jeff Bezos. It also marked a big win after Blue Origin's rocket booster landed safely back on Earth. A feat only achieved by Elon Musk's.

[Jack Armstrong]

Space X. I hope they get to Mars in my lifetime and get, you know, great footage coming out of there and learn all kinds of stuff. Fascinating.

[Joe Getty]

Katy Perry will be missed on Earth. However, I assume she's on that rocket ship still, as if she's one of Blue Origin's leading astronauts.

[Jack Armstrong]

She's not. She should be.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Shooter in the space. I've been saying that for a long time.

[Joe Getty]

So just real quickly, college sports rocked by mafia led gambling scandal. Fourteen charged in, of course, New Jersey, forget about it. College wrestlers, two former Rutgers University wrestlers and a newly certified NBA agent. Wrestling individuals charged who's betting on college wrestling betters. In short, let's see. The charges are the usual $2 million online sports betting operation. One alleged Lucchesi mob family soldier, Joseph Lil Joe Perna, is acting as a acted as a financier, supporting the operation with a couple of his sons.

[Jack Armstrong]

Forget about it. You put him in a fireman's carry in the third period. I'm gonna bet on a headlock and that'll cause me to win or something.

[Joe Getty]

You're gonna get him down, but then you're gonna get let him get up and then you're gonna get him down again. If I could, I would. We are going to hear about this sort of thing so routinely. It's like the, you know, the. The police blotter in your local paper back in the day, you know, a fender bender. I have a feeling.

[Jack Armstrong]

Isn't betting on college wrestling kind of like if you're a drinker and you're in the cabinet drinking vanilla extract? I mean, aren't you to the point where you ought to realize you got a problem?

[Joe Getty]

Yummy, yummy. Good stuff. Actually, they don't make clear that it's about wrestling. It was a couple of former wrestlers who are charged offshore sites, etc. Etc. Yeah, okay. All right. Again, we're going to hear about this all the time. Oh, speaking of, the business pages mentioned this at the very, very end of yesterday's show. And the more I read, the more interesting it becomes. Who pays when AI is wrong. And they tell the story of this solar contractor in Minnesota, Wolf River Electric. They started to lose all sorts of business and they started calling clients and saying, hey, why'd you cancel? We've had a great relationship, blah, blah, blah. And they said, well, you know, you've been sued by the government for deceptive sales practices. And the Wolf river guys are like wa AI completely made it up. They think maybe based on a video game that has a location near called Wolf river, or the game is called Wolf River. I can't remember.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, it doesn't need to be for any reason. Sometimes it makes stuff up out of thin air, right?

[Joe Getty]

And they go into a bunch of different examples of this. And part of the problem with slander laws is that there has to be intent.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, we need to talk about this.

[Joe Getty]

Merely be wrong.

[Jack Armstrong]

This could end the whole AI thing. Depending on the court rulings, might be the end of AI oh, sorry, we gotta cancel AI can't happen because of this next hour.

[Joe Getty]

Plus the Republican Party needs to figure out health care or it should fold up its big tent and go away all next hour. Please stay with us, Armstrong and Getty. This is an iHeart podcast.