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Art + Audience
Ep. 09: Building Your Creative Career: Secrets to Success in Art Licensing with Jehane
00:40:50
In this engaging episode, Stacie sits down with Jehane, an accomplished art licensing agent and artist, to discuss the nuances of transitioning from a freelance artist to an agent. Jehane shares her 30-year journey in the creative industry,...
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- [00:00]
Stacy Bloomfield
Hey friend, are you ready to pitch your artwork for art licensing? Then I have the thing for you. Presenting my brand new art licensing pitch Playbook. This free email course gives you everything you need to start pitching your artwork for licensing while leveraging your already awesome work into the next level of profitability and possibility. I'm going to teach you the five biggest mistakes that keep artists from crafting irresistible pitch emails, reaching out to their dream partners, pitching their work with confidence, gaining experience with collaborations, and building an art business that they love to run. So if you're ready to kickstart your art licensing business, visit artlicensingplaybook.com and I will send you my free 5 day email mini course. I can't wait for you to try it out. Bye.
- [00:50]
Jahan
What a lot of artists are looking for, ideally, is a long term, sustainable, sustainable career. Even if they're starting their career in their 50s or their 60s, they've still got the potential of a really good, long career ahead of them. But if you don't know what your criteria is, if you don't actually have an anchor point from which you can direct what you're doing, you're just going to constantly be overwhelmed and you're not going to really be able to truly build or grow or be recognized for what you do. And to me, it's the number one most important thing. Taking that concept and saying, look, we have to stop thinking that the answer to commercial success is not doing something that we believe in. I'm turning that round. I want people to feel that actually commercial success comes from that place because you've got to think about it more. But if you're successful in doing that, you are actually going to present something that a client is going to respond to better for all sorts of reasons.
- [01:46]
Stacy Bloomfield
Wouldn't it be nice if your art business loved you back? Hi, I'm Stacy Bloomfield. After years of trial and error and late night doodling, I went from being a coffee shop manager to running a vibrant seven figure art business that I love. And now I'm on a mission to help more artists create an art business that they love too. So I invite you to find a cozy spot, pull out your favorite sketchbook, and listen in. It's never too late to chase your creative dreams. Welcome to the Art plus Audience Podcast. Hello Hello. Welcome back to welcome back to another episode of the Art plus Audience Podcast. I'm your host, Stacy Bloomfield, and I'm tickled to be here with someone you're going to want to talk to, because I talk to a lot of artists who want to license their artwork. They want to get their work out in the world. They want to collaborate with, you know, their dream companies, but they don't know where to start. And one of the solutions is to find an agent, an agent who can be that bridge between you and your art and the clients you want to work with. So that's why I'm so excited that I've invited art licensing agent Jahan here with us today. Hi, Jahan.
- [02:55]
Jahan
Hey, Stacy. And everyone listening, thank you so much for having me.
- [02:58]
Stacy Bloomfield
Ooh, I'm so excited that you're here. Full disclosure, everybody. This is kind of our first time meeting, Jahan and I. So I'm going to be getting to know her the same way you are. So I hope that you don't mind eavesdropping in our getting to know you session today, everybody. Well, Jahan, how about this? Tell everybody who you are, what you do, where you're from, your background. Let's do it.
- [03:19]
Jahan
Okay, fantastic. Well, thanks so much. I'll try to give you a good answer in a short period of time. So I'm essentially an artist. That's where all my creative sensibilities as an agent, as an artist, it all comes from. Myself being an artist, I've got 30 years experience in the industry, 15 of which I was full time freelance designer. I was licensing my work, I was making work galleries and for outlets all over the country and export and I had some agents for part of that time and I also represented myself. And 15 years ago I also started to work as an agent and I've always been so inspired by color and conversations and people and audience and all of the layers of the psychology of the creative process and engaging. So I got really hooked on the insights that you gain as an agent and working with artists and clients. So seven years ago I set up my company, which is an illustration agency called Shahan limited.
- [04:22]
Stacy Bloomfield
Amazing. Shahan limited. So illustration, you know, we have a lot of people who are newer to the industry and they don't even realize what defines illustration for you. Like what is that? Is it medium, is it subject? I'd love to know.
- [04:35]
Jahan
That's such a great question. I think essentially it's potentially application. So it's something for a book, whether it's a non fiction book, a picture book, whether it's for a magazine, whether it's illustration for a branding packaging. It's also something that's often much more likely to be commissioned. Licensing tends to apply to existing artwork. Illustration applies much more widely to something that's been commissioned to the application and obviously has a wider sense of narrative. So there's more thought around the layers and the content of that artwork than you might have in something that isn't illustrative. And I partly like to use that word, because when you use word licensing agent, everyone's eyes just sort of glaze over.
- [05:26]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, yeah.
- [05:27]
Jahan
And, you know, like, we're in the industry, so we've heard that term, and I expect a lot of your listeners have heard that term. But, you know, out there on the streets, you know, people don't get it. They don't understand. So illustration. Yeah, it's more human word in a lot of ways.
- [05:41]
Stacy Bloomfield
I think it's actually true because whenever I. So, full disclosure. I run a course called Leverage your Art where I teach not just about art licensing. I pretty much teach the way I grew my own business, because I'm 15 years into this industry, too. But when I talk about art licensing, people are like, I need a certificate to be an artist, Like a license to art. I'm like, no, that's not what I mean. So I really think that's great to have the distinction there. So when you were making your own art, let me just jump right in. Like, that transition from artist to agent, like, what was that like for you?
- [06:14]
Jahan
It was fascinating, actually, because it came from exhibiting my own work in my own home as part of the Brighton Festival. It's a wonderful festival which has really taken off all over the country to inspire people to have their own festivals, to open up their homes.
- [06:29]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh.
- [06:29]
Jahan
Exhibit their work and invite the public in. So they gain in the sense that they get to curate their work in their own space, they get to speak to people and they get to earn, you know, 100% from their work in that situation. But if you've got your work in somebody else's house, then that person would take a small commission. So I invited lots of artists to share with me in my home. And I just began to see how fascinating it was, the differences of the opinions of the people that were coming through, the different things they chose, the different things they said, you know, whether or not they would go and ask permission from the husband or whether they would just buy anyway and didn't need permission from the house. You know, there was just so many layers within. And I just fell in love with that experience of seeing that depth of response to artwork. And it happened to culminate as I also had my children. And I remember being really, really worried, what am I going to do? I can't take seven years out to be a full time mom. That's going to really, I'm going to lose momentum, I'm going to lose contact with the thing that I love and I want to continue to build. So what am I going to do? So I thought, right, well, okay, I do really like talking about other people's work. I love hearing about what they do. So I'm going to send the artists that I know, I'm going to share their artwork with my clients and it all began from there and it's grown into something which is now my full time business and I still love the insights I get and I never stop learning.
- [08:01]
Stacy Bloomfield
So yeah, John, that's incredible. So your full time career was just born out of something that you liked to do and you were looking for a solution whenever you were about to have your children and it's blossomed into this amazing company. I mean, I've heard about you for years. Some of my friends who are illustrators are actually represented by you. How many artists do you represent right now?
- [08:22]
Jahan
So we have 20 artists currently, including me. And yes, it's wonderful. Megan Rader was the very first artist that I invited to be with me and it's such a pleasure that she's been with me since day one. And we're going into. I think I'm celebrating seven years since I incorporated Shahan limited at the end of June. So, yeah, that's incredible.
- [08:45]
Stacy Bloomfield
So, John, let's just get this out of the way because here's what's going to happen. This always happens. I interview an agent for any program and then they get an influx of emails saying, hey, pick me, choose me, want me. So are you open to submissions right now? Let's just get that out of the way before we dig into more of your own story. Let's talk about that.
- [09:02]
Jahan
That's such a great question. And I'm running an agency where I'm working very closely with my artists and that's usually important to me that we have those conversations. So I'm not in a position to take on lots and lots of new artists every year. But I'm always interested in applications. I think it's important that I stay open. And sometimes I will say yes to an artist that I've said no to previously. It's all about the timing and whether the stars are aligning and there are a lot of players. So I will never say no.
- [09:34]
Stacy Bloomfield
So you're saying there's a chance. Everybody, if you're listening, good to know. Good to know. Well, What I'd recommend before anyone submit is actually go check out Jahan's website, go take a look at the artist that she represents, and then, you know, just listen to the rest of this podcast episode before you do anything. Okay, so thanks for talking about that, because it's. It's gonna happen. People will reach out and they'll say, hey, I listen to you on Art plus Audience. I am your next big thing. It will happen. So maybe if you do sign anyone after this podcast from this listeners, let me know, Jahan. Okay, awesome. So I love to dive into in the Art plus Audience podcast. Not just audience building, but I also like to dive into the mistakes that so many people make in their careers. The mistakes that people even cringe to think about because it gives them the cold sweat sometimes. They're like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I got through this really hard part of my career. And for you, you went from artist to transitioning into agent for other artists. And I'm wondering if there's any stories that you'd like to share or anything that comes to mind during that kind of growth transition for you where, like, you. You made a boo boo. You. You. You learned something on the job as you were. As you were experiencing it and how you recovered from it.
- [10:47]
Jahan
Yeah, that's. It's such a good question, and I love this question, because I think we learn so much more from things that didn't go 100% smoothly. We think so much more about the layers within there. And I think probably the first thing that I can really remember is how important it is to do your research. So I remember getting meeting with a lady who was part of a company, and I was super excited to meet this client, and we met up in London, and so I said, oh, so, you know, how long have you been working for the company then? And she said, well, I'm one of the founders.
- [11:23]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, gosh.
- [11:24]
Jahan
Oh, yes. That's. That's great. I should have known that. Yeah. So do your research. It's a really important one, but we are still working together today.
- [11:31]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, good.
- [11:32]
Jahan
It all went well in the end. But, yes, I did feel like I hadn't done my research. Although sometimes, to be fair, it's quite. It's not always easy to find out, you know, that kind of information. So, yeah, I can forgive myself too.
- [11:47]
Stacy Bloomfield
And, you know, I've done that too. In fact, when I signed with Moda Fabrics, which I do a lot of, I've done like 19 or 20 collections with them. I didn't really research them. They know the story. I embarrass myself thinking about it because I had no idea that in the quilting fabric industry, Moda is, like, the largest distributor of quilting fabric, which is pretty nifty. I had no idea who they were because I was just like every other artist out there who hears about licensing and gets excited. I'm just, like, pitching my portfolio, and I wanted to do fabric. And so I remember whenever I actually, like, met the founder of the fabric company at my first quilt market, I had no idea who they were. I just was talking to them like they're anybody. And afterwards, like, that is the founder of Moda Fabric, Stacy. And I was just so casually talking to this gentleman. I had no idea. I totally stuck my foot in my mouth. We don't need to talk about that right now. But I believe I've been forgiven because now they still have me around designing for them. But, you know, as artists, sometimes we're not thinking about the background, the relationship that we're trying to build. We're. We're in this idea of, like, numbers. People are numbers. Pitching is a numbers game. We hear that all the time. I even talk about it because there's, like, a breakdown for a lot of artists. Like, well, if you're not pitching your work and you're not represented by an agent, you really do have to get yourself out there. But what about the relationship building part of being an artist? And that's something you specialize in since you are there helping artists connect with manufacturers. So what about relationship building? What happens there for artists? What do you recommend?
- [13:13]
Jahan
Oh, I think it's absolutely everything. I think it's so important that you step away from that sense that, you know, everything is a number. Yes. We have to be active, and in order to get responses, we have to contact a lot of people. And sometimes you might have to wait a long time. We're now working with a fantastic client that I've been sharing with for five years. And it's, you know, she said, I've opened every single email you've sent me, but I've just been waiting for the right time. But we've just continued to build and nurture that relationship and be patient. So I think it's really important to not forget that there is an individual at the end of the email that you're sending. So don't think about firing off as many emails as you possibly can in an hour and think more about the quality of what you're actually saying and showing that client that You've noticed about them in what you're sending. If that means you send half the number of emails, then actually, statistically, in terms of what you're sharing, you're more likely to get a better response anyway.
- [14:14]
Stacy Bloomfield
So, yeah, thank you for sharing that. You know, let's talk about. You mentioned statistics and data. There's not really a database out there for art licensing in terms of how many pitches it takes to land a contract. People want that number, but like you just said, there's so many variables that depend on that. And so it's not apples to apples. And I imagine even for an agent with a nurtured, like, clientele list that you're working with and talking to quite a bit, it's not like a guarantee, the success rate, right?
- [14:46]
Jahan
Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, I think we all have to really acknowledge that we don't know. And a lot of clients and manufacturers, they don't know which design is going to be the most successful. And a lot of product ranges are built slowly purely for that reason. So there's a tentative entry. Okay. Wow. That one did well. I wasn't expecting that. That's the piece that then, you know, becomes the established range. So there, there is, you know, there's a lot of things which are open and unknown, and that's what makes it exciting and interesting.
- [15:17]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, I love how exciting art licensing is. Some people find unpredictability not exciting, and I find it to be fun and a challenge to rise to. And in truth, that's why art licensing may not be for everybody, because there are some artists who the long game of the nurturing and the relationship and building. It's like without that guarantee in the end that it's going to be successful, they may give up before they've really done their due diligence and put in their work and effort. Right?
- [15:44]
Jahan
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a very valid point. I mean, my experience as an artist was that I was working on different things. Licensing wasn't the 100% thing that I did. So I think I would advise that you build that up. You can always do more of it if once you become successful. But there's also creative benefits to working on other things as well. So, yeah, don't put all your eggs in one basket without a bit of security. I think for sure it's true.
- [16:11]
Stacy Bloomfield
Sometimes I get emails from people saying, like, I quit my job and I'm going to go license full time, but I've never licensed my work before. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's a lot of pressure. That's a lot of pressure on yourself to have to turn something out. So I'm a big believer. And building up your skill set as an artist, becoming a better and better practitioner of whatever medium or mediums you're working with, building kind of a reputation, and let's go into building maybe an audience of following. So in your opinion, how important is an audience for an artist to have in order for them to have commercial viability in the licensing industry?
- [16:46]
Jahan
So I think that's a twofold answer. I think it's less important than they might think in a lot of situations. You know, clients are often. Or the clients that we're working with, they're really looking for quality. They're looking for something unique, they're looking for something different. Yes, it's. For some clients, it's reassuring if they're adding to a licensing program, for sure, but other clients are just as excited to recognize quality and to be the. To be the first people that are launching with something. And, you know, we're working with artists all the time that don't necessarily have a big Instagram following has the reason why the client's working with them. So I think it can be a bit of a red herring.
- [17:27]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah, it absolutely can, because people want to assume that, like, oh, the people who have the big social media numbers, they're the successful ones out there. But in truth, following count does not equal money. Not even by a long shot. I wish it did because I got, like, a lot of. I got a lot of followers on one account, but that doesn't mean necessarily that people are beating down my door to license with me. However, I have had licensing contracts myself where people do find me on Instagram. So do you ever discover people on social media that you want to work with?
- [17:57]
Jahan
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would say now it's predominantly the medium that I'm finding artists or that they're finding me. Yeah, absolutely. And I think also personal recommendation as well. You talk about, you know, nurturing relationships, building relationships. I think that that's also something that has helped me to have, you know, that I've been recommended by somebody that I'm working with.
- [18:20]
Stacy Bloomfield
What hashtags do you use when you're searching for artists? If you feel like sharing, I'd love to know.
- [18:25]
Jahan
So that's interesting. So I don't use hashtags to search for artists.
- [18:29]
Stacy Bloomfield
Do you just let the Explore page show you more of what you're into? Is that how it works?
- [18:34]
Jahan
I think I. Yeah, I think I look at the artists that I'm already interested in and I look at his commentary on their work and I follow a trail. I'll look at clients, I'll look at all sorts of things, you know, magazine articles, all of those sorts of things. I don't tend to search by hashtags.
- [18:51]
Stacy Bloomfield
Interesting. Noted for myself and for other people. Thank you. Let's talk about you again. I kind of want to refocus back into your story. So when you were practicing just as an artist and licensing your work, you weren't representing other people yet, what did you do to improve your portfolio, to improve your skill set? I just would like, love to know, like, what was it like for you back when that was kind of your full focus?
- [19:15]
Jahan
Yeah, such a good question. I think getting some real hands on industry experience early on really helped me. So after I graduated from my degree in printed textiles, I went to work out in Vienna for two years in a, in a textile design studio. And I was there just soaking up everything, just really, really learning, improving my skills in terms of understanding what a collection might need. We would have to work on six designs in one week. And I was really improving my skill set around running a small business, seeing how that actually worked, seeing that people were taking the artwork out to trade fairs, seeing that sometimes the designs that I thought maybe shouldn't be going into the pile because I wasn't very pleased with them, were sometimes the ones that were sold, you know. So there's so many things I think that you're learning in terms of your skill set as well as the actual artwork that you're creating that I was learning to design for fashion, differences between fashion and furnishing designs and also between wrapping paper. So, you know, that was really key to creating a piece of work for an audience that, you know, is more likely to appreciate it than another. So that's all part of how you might put a design together.
- [20:32]
Stacy Bloomfield
Let's see, you were practicing and you were getting hands on experience. And you mentioned something that intrigued me, the difference between like fashion industry for textile design and maybe furnishings, in your opinion, based off of that experience, like, what are the differences?
- [20:47]
Jahan
So certainly at that time the main differences were that a fashion, the design for fashion didn't need to be in repeat. So it could be much more experimental. It could be essentially something that we would refer to as a placement, which I think is a term that's still used now. And they could just give you much more space to experiment and not have to think about repeat. So that was how they were sold and you didn't ever have to think about that. Whereas furnishings, you had to not only do the design in repeat, but you had to show another third of your design all the way around, showing that it did actually repeat perfectly. So a completely different, much more laborious, slightly more mathematical approach.
- [21:36]
Stacy Bloomfield
Absolutely. And, you know, surface pattern design is such a hot topic and I think in the licensing world, in the art world right now. But I've always found that even though I do know how to make a repeat pattern, for instance, like, my work actually has wide market appeal and a lot of it is not my repeat work. It's like those placement designs, just kind of standalone illustrations. Is that still the case that you're seeing too?
- [21:57]
Jahan
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we tend to do more of what I would call an illustrative pattern than not. So.
- [22:05]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah, yeah, interesting. So whenever you were making your own work, what was the subject matter that you were most drawn to? Like, what kind of inspired you and became kind of the crux of your style as an artist?
- [22:19]
Jahan
So it was two things, essentially. It was one, a very strong use of colour. So I don't mean in the sense that colours were always bright and strong, but I've got a very natural, good understanding of what colours work well. So that was really, really hugely also something that inspired me. And secondly, it was also the written word. So the use of words is something that. I was one of the first designers to bring that into surface pattern in the early 1990s. And in fact, one of my boo boos is connected to the first design that I ever licensed.
- [22:52]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, do tell, do tell.
- [22:55]
Jahan
So I created this artwork in response to a brief when I was a second year student. And one of the themes that we had to choose from, this was a client brief and they said that they would publish somebody's work at the end. And I chose the theme, Great Britain as you know it. And I dialed down into Shakespeare and I used Shakespearean past, I created Shakespearean passports, I used lots of quotes from his plays, I used embroidery and collage and, you know, brought in stamps and jigsaw puzzles and wax seals and, you know, all sorts of different sort of patterns. And also the portrait of Shakespeare. And this went on to be published. It was the piece that the company chose and it absolutely amazed me at the time because I was surrounded by, you know, all of these wonderful draftsmanship and these wonderful designs and I was doing something that looked like Kirchweiters, and it was all about Shakespeare. And it was a bit philosophical because it was referencing the fact that actually he might not have been the person that wrote that play in the first place, but it went on to be published. And that just really showed me the importance of carving out your own, your own path that's meaningful for you as an artist instead of, you know, looking at what you think you should be doing. And that's something that I still hear today, that clients don't want to have something that's very generic. You know, they're looking for something that's specific and different.
- [24:24]
Stacy Bloomfield
So let's dig into that a little bit because I work with so many artists at the beginning of their journeys and you know, they're finding me online through Instagram and, you know, the algorithm keeps feeding them more and more of the same thing. So they have this idea of this is what it means to be a successful illustrator or designer right now. Because Instagram is showing me all these things and I feel like it's actually creating the opposite effect. You know, like people are creating more and more the same type of work as opposed to getting offline and going and just iterating and being creative on their own. So I'm sure you see a lot of this too, because you probably get a lot of ports, portfolio reviews to look at. So, like, what's your take on that and what should artists do today in order to create something original?
- [25:10]
Jahan
I think absolutely to be really dialing down into listening to your own responses and really listening to the things that you're actually interested in responding to. Not immediately going to Pinterest, you know, get out, go and see something different, go and just feel how, how are you responding to something that you're seeing that isn't, isn't on Instagram and isn't on Pinterest? And I think also that it's really key because what a lot of artists are looking for, ideally, is a long term sustainable career. Even if they're starting their career in their 50s or their 60s, they've still got the potential of a really good, long career ahead of them. But if you don't know what your criteria is, if you don't actually have an anchor point from which you can direct what you're doing, you're just going to constantly be overwhelmed and you're not going to really be able to truly build or grow or be recognized for what you do. And to me, it's the number one most important thing. And it's what my once a year, you know, passion class called you'd Creative Gold is about. It's essentially Just take taking that concept and saying, look, we have to stop thinking that the answer to commercial success is not doing something that we believe in. Yeah, I'm turning that round. I want people to feel that actually commercial success comes from that place.
- [26:34]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, yeah.
- [26:35]
Jahan
Because you've got to think about it more. But if you're successful in doing that, you are actually going to present something that a client is going to respond to better for all sorts of reasons. And as part of the class, I set a live brief and I give lots of feedback. So there's also a very practical side to it. But there's a lot of questions to support students and artists in really asking themselves those questions. And interestingly, I remember the couple of days before I did it the first time, I had a meeting with two clients and it just happened to be in the week that I was just about to do the class, the course, start the course, and they said, oh, what are you doing this week? So I shared with them and I shared what it was about and they said, oh, I am so glad that you're doing this. This is so important. Please tell them that they have to really take this on board. Please tell them to stop going on Pinterest, please. It's, it's. We are so bored of seeing generic artwork. And the interesting thing about the conversation that, you know, in full transparency is that actually the clients that I were talking to were more mid, middle of the the range kind of commercially. You know, they weren't super experimental. They weren't really leading the way in terms of which is the super top design led. You know, they were filter. They were already at a level where they're filtering something through. So the fact they made that comment to me was really meaningful. And actually it surprised me because of their own positioning, but it just shows how important it is. And also I think we mustn't forget that one of the things I'm really noticing is that it's not a trend, but this in higher quality thinking, higher quality artwork that up until now has been much more of a top end thing. It's actually filtering right down now. There are who previously have only been doing the same old stuff that are also becoming more arty. And you know, it's. Yeah, you can't, you can't avoid it. I think really here's a little bit.
- [28:35]
Stacy Bloomfield
Of my take on that because, you know, I'm coming at this from twofold myself as an artist who has had a licensing career for 10 years, commercial success, I run my own brand too. GingerBR and it's, it's great. And then I also educate. So I was at a retreat, a business retreat for non artists recently, and they were actually talking about this phenomenon that people want to be told how to do things right. They want the formula. But in fact, you could give someone a step by step formula of how to build a thriving art business, art licensing, whatever it is. And only 10% of the people who pay for a program actually implement what they've learned, which is really, really interesting. And so then the question becomes, well, what do people listen to? What does ignite them to kind of take action and own their future? And it's the why. The why behind it is what inspires people to go, you know, create that beautiful work. So it ties in beautifully with what you've said. Because, you know, I have students who are like, please just give me the formula, Stacy. Tell me exactly how many pieces to put in my portfolio. What are the key topics I need to have? And of course I can be like, well, I don't have a perfect answer, but there's this and this. But what's more impactful, actually is why do you want to do this in the first place? Why are you, you can take a really basic brief, design brief, and put a completely personalized, unique spin on it. And that is what launches people into success. Not the, I follow this program step by step, and I'm not having any success success here. You can't lose that individuality.
- [30:08]
Jahan
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And why would we want to, you know, we, we are human. We are living, breathing, conscious beings and we don't need this stuff to be generated by machines and we don't need to behave ourselves.
- [30:22]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah, well, speaking of, you know, machines, this. I was wondering if I was going to bring it up or not, but like, okay, you've had a long career and I've had a long career and you know, there's this fear right now because of AI art, you know, like, oh no, what's going to happen? But I actually want to bring it back and maybe you can share some personal experience, because I'm a believer. You know, I've been running GingerBR for 15 years. I've seen so many scary things pop up and change. I've seen industry trends change. I've seen what people fear to be market saturation, and they're like, can I even succeed anymore? So there's always been something scary happening, I feel like, over the years. So can you think back to maybe earlier on in your career when there was something pivotal that was happening in our industry where you had paused and you're like, is this going to change everything?
- [31:09]
Jahan
Interesting. I suppose it was when it was. Well, I suppose it was a. Before the Internet and also before Photoshop.
- [31:18]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah. What was it like before the Photoshop? Tell me.
- [31:22]
Jahan
I mean, my mode of communication before Internet was facts. And I've. I've got piles of faxes now and they've just all completely faded. You can't even read anything. It's all just completely faded. But. Yeah, what was life like before Photoshop? You know, I think in when I was working as an artist and that all began, people still thought it was your local photograph shop where you develop your snaps, you know, so it's. Yeah, I think people automatically felt like, oh, is everything going to change? And it was a. It was a equip. Not quite as difficult and scary, I think, as we. What we're dealing with now, because obviously we've got a much more powerful tool.
- [31:58]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah. So with what we're dealing with now, with AI art, this is important because I personally, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things because I've just been in this industry for a long time and maybe the changes that are happening are going to reinforce the points that you just said. Like, you actually need to be more original and your skills need to be better and better. But, like, with the advent of AI art, are you finding that buyers, perhaps that you've worked with are now choosing AI generated art as opposed to working with, you know, with someone on a brief?
- [32:32]
Jahan
No, we're not finding that tool. I think we're finding the opposite. It's just giving more value to what we do.
- [32:40]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah, see, that's what I was hoping you would say. And if you said the opposite, I was going to like, how am I going to pivot myself out of this one? But that's been my observation as well, because, you know, we have the benefit of life, experience lived and interests and stories to tell that we can pour into our art to give it that unique point of view. Just like you did with the brief with the Shakespeare spin on it. And so far as I can see, I'm not overly worried about AI art being able to take that away. I think actually what it's going to do is force people to get better because that's what happens with any market expansion. There's a lot more people trying to maybe generate artwork. So you have to rise to the top, right?
- [33:23]
Jahan
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we're a long way off. We are a long Way off any computer program being able to deal with the levels and the layers that needed to be considered, thought about and communicated. And let's say we consider and we think about it, but communicating it. Email is such a blunt instrument. You know, online meetings, it's incredibly difficult. Anybody who knows if they've been commissioned to do anything, it's. Yeah. Communication is so important. And that's, that's not. We are so many years off that being achievable. So we can't just think about purely the visual aspect. We have to think about all of the layers around it.
- [34:06]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah. And I think whenever I see the fear mongering online, which I'm not saying there's nothing to be afraid of, but whenever I see people get so derailed by this type of conversation, which is important, we can't ignore it. What I want to tell people is take that fear energy. Because the opposite of fear is what, you know, I need you to channel the opposite of this, which I don't know if it's excitement or if it's, you know, putting that energy into your own portfolio and just going at it with more tenacity and more enjoyment in your work. Like that's, that's where you got to put your energy, right?
- [34:41]
Jahan
Absolutely. Absolutely. No, for sure. I think so. Definitely. I would want people to feel encouraged, not discouraged by it.
- [34:50]
Stacy Bloomfield
Feel encouraged. And, you know, I'll say this, you and I both have online programs that we run, and so I have seen this fear that, like, there's so many more artists trying to make a living that people wonder, like, is there space for me to continue to grow? And I actually think this is an interesting moment for artists because again, the solution to continuing to have industry success, in my opinion, is originality and continuing to refine that skill set. There are no shortcuts to that, right?
- [35:19]
Jahan
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think effort is a talent in itself, I guess.
- [35:23]
Stacy Bloomfield
As we're starting to wrap up this episode, because we've talked about a lot of different things, I hope you don't mind the rabbit trails. We've talked mistakes that we've made trends that we're seeing in the industry, how you find people that you work with, which is often scrolling Instagram or referrals, which is really important, and the importance of relationship. But if you were talking right now to a sea of just talented artists and they're wondering, Jahan, what is the number one. I'm putting you on the spot. What is the number one thing. Thing you think I should do in order to build my Own clientele. I'm not ready for an agent yet, perhaps. And I'm doing my own art licensing representation, which, full disclosure, I've always been my own agent. I don't have an agent. Like, what's the number one thing I can do to get my art in front of the right people?
- [36:10]
Jahan
So I think the most important thing is to not wait until it's perfect. Yeah. I think it's so important you stay active. And I completely hear you, Stacey. I've represented myself for most of my career, and. But, yeah, I think it's really important not to procrastinate so much because you think it's not perfect. You have to keep moving, you have to keep active, you have to keep doing.
- [36:34]
Stacy Bloomfield
Yeah. And, you know, I'm the type of person that, in truth, I don't make art every day because I have bursts of energy whenever I am creating. But, like, whenever I'm in that pocket and in that zone of flow and creation, sometimes my favorite part is in the beginning where there's kind of the rough sketches and I haven't finalized everything. But, like, that's whenever. Like, there's just so much potential of where this can go. And sometimes that's the perfect time to reach out to someone who maybe, you know, might be interested in this subject matter and be like, hey, I'm working on something new. Right?
- [37:05]
Jahan
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, don't underestimate what a wonderful, magical thing it is to show someone the workings of your creative mind. And when you show something at those early stages, that's what you're sharing. You know, the final finished piece doesn't have all of that essence.
- [37:22]
Stacy Bloomfield
That's right.
- [37:24]
Jahan
Really do. And, yeah, everybody loves to see those things.
- [37:28]
Stacy Bloomfield
The magic's in the draft. That's. That's what I believe. It's not just with art. It's with writing. It's with any creative interest. Sometimes that's where the real, like, joy is. And we can overwork things whenever we're not talking to other people and sharing it. Which is why I think creative community and sharing your work and your process is so impactful and important. I know, Jahan, that you do something to help artists year round to be able to develop their voice and maybe even share their process. And can you tell everyone about that?
- [37:57]
Jahan
Sure. Thank you for asking, Stacy. So, yes. I started a new challenge this year called Shahan's Golden Thread, and it's a weekly challenge that runs all throughout the year. And it's broken down into four themes across the 52 weeks. So essentially what happens is you get a different prompt every week. You can jump in at any time, and you can miss as many weeks as you. You need or want. So the concept of the golden thread is that I give you a prompt that first time and you create a piece of work, and then the second time, you create a piece of work in response to one of my prompts. Whether or not you've missed a week or not, you have to pick something that you like or that you're interested in or intrigues you from the piece you did before. So you have whatever that is, whether it's a texture, whether it's a bird, whether it's a color, whether it's an emotion. You have to pick something that you liked from that piece and bring it forward into the next piece and so forth. So you create a golden thread throughout all of the work that you're creating. And it's really fascinating because it will also support you in your thinking around, okay, well, what are the impulses that I'm responding to? What do I like about what I'm doing? Or, you know, what, what am I interested in? Really neat, simple way to support you, thinking about what's unique about you, and at the end, you know, you've got some great artwork. And the prompts that I'm giving will also support people to put relevant stuff in their portfolio, potentially depending on what they're interested in.
- [39:34]
Stacy Bloomfield
That is beautiful. The golden thread challenge. I always tell my students that when you're looking at your body of work, you are looking for that little thread that kind of ties things together, but it's so hard to teach that, and you have thought of a way to teach it. So well done. I love that. How can people sign up for it?
- [39:49]
Jahan
Well, thank you, Stacy. So let me just get this right. So if you go to yourcreativegold.com forward/gold, then you can download the information on the concept and then you'll receive prompts. Yeah.
- [40:03]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, wow. I love that you're doing that. How wonderful to be contributing to our creative community in such a tangible, helpful way. So well done, Jahan. Where can everyone follow you online?
- [40:14]
Jahan
Thank you, Stacy. Well, I'm on Instagram on Shahan Underscore Ltd, so that's Shahan Underscore limited Shahan starts with J. So J E H A N E. And I've also jumped into Cara, so I have an account on Cara as well, which is the new artists app where you're not allowed to add any artwork using AI. So that's a great, great app. I would recommend you joining. And there's some really interesting conversations going on there too.
- [40:45]
Stacy Bloomfield
I opened an account. I haven't done anything with it yet, but I technically have an account on Cara. Oh, Jahan, it's been such a joy and a treat to get to chat with you today. Thank you so much for just sharing your wisdom with everybody and thank you for just being this. Thank you and thanks.
- [41:01]
Jahan
Love what you're doing.
- [41:02]
Stacy Bloomfield
Oh, thank you. Bye everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you subscribe to this podcast and then share it with one of your best art friends? I'd really appreciate it. And then head on over to Instagram and follow me at the leverage your art account and you can keep up with all of our future episodes. Thank you so much for your support. It means everything to have you here listening and learning.
- [41:30]
Jahan
Bye.