← Art + Audience
Art + Audience
Ep. 23: From $1 Paintings to Full-Time Artist: Emily Jeffords on Pricing, Burnout & Creative Freedom
00:36:56
In this episode, Stacie is joined by fine artist and educator Emily Jeffords for a deep, transparent conversation about building an art career that honors both creativity and sustainability. Emily shares her journey from selling her first paintings...
Loading summary
Transcript64 lines
- [00:00]
A
My business was booming. It was doing so well. But at the cost of me, I became anorexic. It was horrible, but I didn't know it. It was so crazy. After many thousands spent in, like, doctor bills, I'm like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? They all said stress, and I'm like, oh, no, I'm not stressed. I am making so much money. My life is going so great. This is before I knew that it wasn't going great. And then the wool was pulled off my eyes and I was like, oh.
- [00:31]
B
Wouldn'T it be nice if your art business loved you back? Hi, I'm Stacey Bloomfield. After years of trial and error and late night doodling, I went from being a coffee shop manager to running a vibrant seven figure art business that I love. And now I'm on a mission to help more artists create an art business that they love too. So I invite you to find a cozy spot, pull out your favorite sketchbook, and let's listen in. It's never too late to chase your creative dreams. Welcome to the Art plus audience podcast. Hi, Emily.
- [01:03]
A
Hello. It's good to be here.
- [01:05]
B
It's so good to have you here. It's funny because the last five years have gone by so fast that it's hard to believe that it's been that long. I think you were so gracious years ago to do a call with me when I was launching my first book. You did me a solid and barely knew me. And I was like, she's a good person. That's so nice of her.
- [01:24]
A
Your vibes came through strong on the Internet. And I was like, okay, this girl's. I like this essence a lot.
- [01:29]
B
If you don't know, Emily is a fine artist. She makes the most gorgeous, beautiful, like, landscape, abstract works of art. What medium are you painting in right now?
- [01:39]
A
Oh, today it was watercolor, but that's actually rare. Oil is my favorite medium, so I would say mostly oil.
- [01:45]
B
And sometimes you even, like, make your own pigments. We're both serving creative people who are just trying to find a way to, like, share their voice, find space to create. And I think we both try to help people create income from our art, right?
- [01:58]
A
Yes, definitely. I mean, I feel like if your creative pursuits can also fund part of your life, if not all of your livelihood, then that just means that you get to amplify how much time you spend in the studio. And that's always. My personal goal is to spend as much time creating as possible. So if I can, like, make this Passion, profitable, then I can do more of it. So. So it's this cyclical thing that I'm like, yes, let's just all do that. It's way more fun that way.
- [02:25]
B
It's absolutely more fun. And you know, part of my take is trying to help people be really efficient with the business side of things so they can spend more time, you know, whether it's in the studio or drawing on their iPad. Running a business can be incredible and fun. But there's a lot of challenging things that I think people don't realize when they're going to run a business. Like for instance, this podcast is called R plus Audience because people want to figure out how to grow an audience of buyers. And you and I have both been in this industry for 10 plus years. How long have you been professionally creating?
- [02:57]
A
I had my first professional art show in 2007. So that's like literally almost eight, like 18 years.
- [03:06]
B
That's wild. And you look so young and fresh and five anxious. It's so nice.
- [03:12]
A
You know, that was when I was in college, so yes, college.
- [03:16]
B
And you know, I, I started my business right after I had my first baby, so that was like 2009. So I'm right behind you when I found a GingerBR. But you know, people feel like so much has changed with how you build an audience and find visibility and traction. But sometimes I feel like a lot has changed. Like there's AI and there's a lot more automations, but in so many ways it feels the same. So like, can you take me back to the early days whenever creating was just like the joy. And then that first idea came into your head of like, what if I could create income? Like where were you at in your life when that was happening?
- [03:50]
A
Well, I went to art school, so my goal was always to create income with my art. So I feel like I began with this, like, of course I'll make money with my art. That's why I'm in college. So I began with this very naive, you know, 19 year old, 18 year old self of like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be a professional artist. Watch out world, here I come. I got to my junior year in art school and I like talked to one of my professors and I was like, okay, so where do I get a job after college? I spent all this money on college, spent thousands on art supplies. Because they do not tell you that when you enter college as an art major, you are going to spend so much money on art supplies. It is crazy. And I'm like, okay, Cool. What are my next steps? And he was like, oh, you can work at a frame shop, you can work at a gallery. You can work at an art supply store. And I was like, excuse me. Not that those are not valid and wonderful jobs, but I had an expectation that I would just start being a professional artist. Almost like, here's your job. Go do it. So naive. I know. So, so, so naive. But hearing him say that you could work at a frame shop or, you know, these other roles that are more customer service focused and not creative work focused, I was like, oh, wait, your job is to teach me how to create good work, which they did. My job is now to educate myself on what it means to run a business, because they don't even know how to do that. They're not professional artists. They're teachers, which is great for them, not for me. And I entered my first year of running my art studio by selling a painting for $1. And anyone listening, do not do this. I am offering you bad advice right now. Okay. Don't follow my footsteps. I sold my first painting for $1, and then the second one for $2, the third one for $3. And my idea was I just want to sell my work, and I wanted people to just buy it. So I was like, I'll just start at the beginning and work my way up and, like, incrementally raise the prices of my work. Which eventually was a good idea. A terrible pricing model, by the way. I teach much better pricing models that make a lot more sense, but that was new. I didn't know what I was doing. Obviously, eventually it became. It became a profitable, ish studio, but still, I had to work through months of making absolutely, like, I was paying for people to buy my work for real. But I would say that the way that things have changed, I feel like part of the benefit of beginning something before your audience fully is ready for it is you get to do something a little bit quietly. And I have a lot of creatives in my life or artists that come to me for advice, and, like, I have a really small audience. No one knows who I am. I'm like, that's actually so good.
- [06:40]
B
There's so much freedom in that.
- [06:42]
A
So much freedom. And if you're beginning, like, if you're in even, like, I would say, year two, year three of being an artist, being a creative person, I can tell you being in year, like, 18 or something, you don't know what you really want to say yet. You're still, like, learning your voice. And I think that I, even with my limited audience, began speaking very loudly and selling my work. And my work sold. How could it not? It was $1. And I still felt like I didn't get to practice in quiet because I was being so loud about marketing and, like, making this thing work, which is a good thing. But I think if you have a smaller audience and you have a smaller space, that can feel really overwhelming and really, like, a hole that you have to kind of climb out of. But I would reframe that and say that if your world feels a little bit small as you begin, soak that up, because it will grow, you will be known, and you will have a larger audience. And then your voice becomes a little bit. You have to be more careful with it and say things that you really want to have out in the world versus practicing and, like, trying some things and evolving and, you know, being a bit more fluid.
- [07:51]
B
So, yeah, you know, I teach a lot of beginners who are, you know, either they've been creating in a different medium, but the minute money comes into their head, like, I want to create income. You know, they. They want the formula. And, you know, as online educators, you and I, our job is to create helpful curriculum that helps move the needle forward. But there's no substitute for the time that you need to take to build up that craftsmanship and to master your medium, no matter what the medium is. But I also think it's good to, like, jump in before you're, like, perfect. So I know you're talking to creatives, too. How do you handle that kind of discrepancy in terms of, like, do it. Have fun and slow down, sailor. What do you do?
- [08:37]
A
Well, the way that I look at it is you don't need to worry about it too much, because the way that the world is working now is the algorithms are spreading voices that are very, very clear. Part of practicing and learning things means your voice is a little bit muddy just by nature of, like, you're practicing a bunch of different things, and you're maybe learning how to photograph and learning what your aesthetic is and what you want to say. So you're, like, experimenting. And the nice thing about the way that the online world works now is the clearer your voice gets, the more the algorithm does a lot of the work for you, and the more it'll attract an audience to you. So I feel like it's a little bit of a. Like, just kind of jump in and go with it. And while your audience is probably small, like, learning to pay attention to you in a certain way while that's still evolving. Just keep practicing. And then as you get clearer, the algorithm will work with you and for you. And people will be like, oh, yeah, I get that, girl. I get. I get what they're doing. I get what their vision is. I can, like, follow along with this path. And you'll kind of attract an audience organically as you become clearer and clearer. So it is kind of both. And also just do it. Just jump in.
- [09:51]
B
You know, going back to what you said about whenever you're smaller, you have kind of more freedom. It's kind of like an incubator. And when I was first showing up on Instagram, I was so free with how I showed up. And something happens whenever you actually do. I'm going to call it make it. Make it can mean a lot of things. It can mean a little bit of consistent income. It can be followers, even if they're not buying. But something happens as soon as you realize there are eyeballs on you. And the tendency is to do what I've struggled with, which is to stay weird and myself, because there's this idea, like, okay, now I have the audience and I want it to be perfect. And I want the great images and I want the good, meaningful things that people are going to save and share. And somewhere along the way, I find myself reflecting, like, I lost a little bit of that freedom that I think attracted people to me in the first place. Have you ever felt that, like, the pressure to, like, once you have kind of gotten the audience to be, like, a little bit more sanitized?
- [10:46]
A
Oh, yeah. And especially with, like, I mean, you and I have both gone through the algorithm shifts of, like, 2015 and then 2021 and then 2024. And now we're in this, like, new thing that we're all like, what are we doing here? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's extremely normal. And being authentic in what feels like a massive sea of not only, like, other voices, but also other opinions can be exhausting.
- [11:15]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [11:15]
A
Overwhelming. One thing that I tell myself and any, like, artists that I get to be in the world of, it's helpful to just kind of like, when you go into that content creation mode, if you want to call it that, understand what things you're supposed to say in this space, because as I've grown my audience, I've realized that there are a lot of things that I'm not supposed to say in this space. I don't talk about so many things in my personal life just because they don't fit what I'M supposed to say on this. This platform or they don't fit my message in the world. I'm realizing that the clearer I can become with what I want to say in this space, the more I can really lean in and just do that. And if that means that I'm going to show up and be a little funny or a little bit, like, informative, but also really personable, don't let AI write your captions for you. I'm just going to tell you that people can sniff out an AI caption and they will not engage with it. I prom promise you.
- [12:11]
B
And to add on to that, like, two nights ago, I was just on a walk. It'd been a long, long day. I just, like, picked up my phone and I was like, I'm just gonna share what's on my heart. And then I wrote a long caption. And I'm sure there were a lot of typos in it. And I just was like, wrote it in the moment, clicked upload, and then I didn't look at it. And then I woke up and I was like, okay, this is the thing that can't be replicated from AI it's these moments where you're just like, my heart and my gut are telling me maybe this thing that I'm thinking or feeling could resonate, and I'm going to just take the risk and share it. And what's the worst thing that can happen? Like, no one likes it. I think that, like, that balance between what to share and getting super laser clear on your focus of what to share may be easier for you and I because we've been doing this for a long time. But if you were to, like, go to someone who's in their first year, they're skilled, and they're like, okay, it's time to build my personal art brand. How do you help someone figure out, like, what their, let's call it, pillars, for lack of a better word, of what they could share online should be? What's that parameter?
- [13:15]
A
Well, the first thing I would say is, what do you want a stranger on the Internet to know about you? And just write down, like, three things, maybe five things, like, but not more than six. Like, that's too much. You can't keep up with all that. And then can you cycle through? I would say your top three things often enough that they become, like, you feel comfortable. You're like, I know how to share my art. I know how to share my process. I know how to share a collector's story. Or, I know how to share a tip about framing. Whatever your three things may be, I say if you want to be known for your art in particular, so it's gonna be, like, from the lens of, like, creative business, art business in particular, your most important number one thing is going to be your art. And if that means you only share your paintings, you are going to do great accounts that are very, very narrow and focused you better than those that are broader. Which is why I say definitely no more than six. Like, when you pick out your, like, main number one thing, the next thing to do is to think about what's the thing that supports my number one goal here. So if you share, let's say, the two most tertiary things to the actual, actual art, it would be like, your actual art, your art process, and then maybe like, something that's adjacent to it. Like, it could be beautiful interiors, it could be, like, really stylish. Like, whatever your subject matter is about, you could include that kind of content. Like, if you paint portraits, you could include fashion, you could include makeup. Like, those kinds of things could belong next to your thing. When you look at your life, just, you know, kind of think, like, what do you want to share? So in my world, because I do both like actual art sales, and I love that. But then I also teach artists how to run businesses, and I love that, too. There's a little bit of a Venn diagram that I get to consider that I think is really fun for me, which is why I do it, where I can talk about my art and then I can talk about the creative lifestyle. And that could include things like travel, how do we. Being a parent and an artist, how to make money as an artist. Like, there's a lot of things that fit into that world that I kind of blend, which is why I say I do share a lot of different things. So I'm a little bit of. Not a good example from my own case study here, but kind of take that and. And run with it.
- [15:37]
B
Well, I'll say this. Like, I have Gingerbread, which is a brand that's not based on me. Maybe it started out as Stacy Bloomfield building this brand, and that's kind of what I showed for all these years. So if we're talking about the key things I showed, it would be the art, the product, and the behind the scenes of, like, selling shipping shows, all of those things. But something has happened in my brand recently where the bigger Gingerbread has gotten, the more it needed to be less about me. Stacy Bloomfield. And the more it needed to be about this brand. That I had created. And it was a very uncomfortable transition because if you look at my Gingerbread Instagram account now, you don't see much of me in it anymore. We are super focused on one thing. It is tea towels. It's like, where we have found our footing and we sell millions of tea towels. It's bananas. And so, like, where I'm at now with that business is so different than what I teach people to do, because it's something I'm still learning too. If you want to build, like a faceless brand that's selling a product, even if it's a creative product, my journey to here, it's like, it's almost the most uncomfortable place I've ever been, Emily, because I can't show up there as much. So now I have this space where I am now doing what everyone did in the beginning. I'm starting over and I'm building a personal art brand around myself. Stacy Bloomfield. Again, it has a bit to do with my education side teaching artists, but also kind of rediscovering, like, just creating. And so now I'm like, okay, I'm building the personal brand today alongside other people that I'm teaching. And in many ways, it's really refreshing to be a beginner again.
- [17:14]
A
Yeah.
- [17:14]
B
Trying to figure out, like, well, who do I want to show up as now? You and I have been doing this for a long time, and something I love is transparency around, like, boo boos and mistakes. Is there a time that you can think about maybe in the last, I don't know, 18 years of your career where you can be like, man, I wish I hadn't done that thing, or I wish I thought this through a little bit more, or this didn't have.
- [17:33]
A
The outcome I expected in 2021. In particular, I went through really bad burnout in 2021. Like, horrible. My marriage was ending. I didn't really fully know it then. It ended in early 2022. My business was booming. It was doing so well, but at the cost of me. And I didn't fully know that, but I became anorexic. I just developed a lot of, like, psychological. Like, it was horrible, but I didn't know it. It was so crazy. So. So then in 2022, after many thousands spent in, like, doctor bills, I'm like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? They all said stress. And I'm like, oh, no, I'm not stressed. I am making so much money. My life is going so great. This is before I knew that it wasn't going great. And then the wool was pulled off my eyes and I was like, oh, my God. So I think part of what I've learned in that experience is to check in a lot because I think what happens when you reach a certain level of, like, productivity and output and knowing that you are so reliable and knowing that you can always depend on yourself and you can make anything good and beautiful and people want to hear what you have to say when all these things begin to just become expected of you. At least for me, I stopped being human and I started being like something. Not like a machine, because I was obviously like, my body was still very much here being like, I need you to pay attention to me. But there was just a level of like, I was living out of body. I think that's a good way to describe how I was experiencing it. So that's, I know, kind of a dramatic example of, like, when you're not in alignment, and the alignment can be so subtle. I think that when you're a highly sensitive person also, or someone that feels things, and as an artist, a lot of us feel things and are quick to perceive, we're quick to be like, oh, even if you don't acknowledge that that's happening, it's happening in your body, most likely.
- [19:36]
B
Yeah.
- [19:37]
A
And when you're that kind of person, I think it can be really easy to override that because you're so used to having to just exist in the world that doesn't perceive or doesn't want people to be perceptive. And it can be really quick for me to carry on as usual. Everyone relies on me. I have three kids that need me. Like, go, go, go. Don't stop. Just make it all happen.
- [19:59]
B
Yeah.
- [20:00]
A
So I've learned by having a crash and burn and by being like, okay, cool. That I cannot do that, and I will never do that ever again. And if that means my business is smaller, albeit if it means that I end a marriage, that's fine. If it means that I say yes and no to things, people will be like, wait, you're saying no to that? Yes, I'm going to say no to that. Because that takes me out of myself. And I will try my best at least to not be out of myself again.
- [20:28]
B
That's really powerful, Emily. You know, I had a very similar experience. I won't go into too much detail. Instead of losing weight, though, I gained a lot of weight in 2021. I kind of overnight found success, a new part of my career, and it kind of went over like Gangbusters. And there was a lot of visibility, a lot of not wanting to let people down, and I just worked myself into the ground. And that was like, I guess, a similar experience in the sense that, like, I was showing up, I did great work, I was there for my family. I. Everything that I'm supposed to do, and yet I no longer knew myself. The idea of ever, like, thinking about my needs and prioritizing them, that felt selfish to me. You know, it's really hard to unlearn these things and these habits. I bring that to today because, like, what we're experiencing right now in 2025 in a lot of ways, feels as weird and scary as 2020 and 2021. It may not be the same trauma, but I'm noticing the fear and the unpredictability feels similar. So how are you during this new season of, like, almost, like, holding our breath, managing, not going back to these old habits?
- [21:39]
A
Well, when you were talking about reinventing yourself and coming back to yourself, the word that came to my mind when you were like, I'm excited to do this now was dependability. Because now you know how to depend on yourself, and you know that you can depend on yourself. And I think the shift that comes from being in a trauma version of, like, I'm dependable. I can hold it all together.
- [22:01]
B
I've got this.
- [22:02]
A
That's not being dependable. That's being stubborn and tenacious and letting capitalism drive your energy and, like, not being in touch with the things that you need. Being in touch with what you need is dependability and being able to say, I will always protect me, and then I'll protect those that I love most. There's just a lot of, like, cyclical energy that I think we have to be aware of, both inside of us and outside of us. And I think the thing that I hope to keep settling into and I hope to never repeat the pattern of, is just like, I will depend on myself. I will trust that I will protect myself. Because the world, especially when you run a business or begin to sell your work or begin to let your creative self thrive, and it can take up some space. The world is not going to ever monitor your energy for you. It'll always ask for more. It'll always be like, I need this. I need this. I need this. And you're like, I love that you need all those things from me. Yes, I can make all of that. But who's going to monitor your energy? You are.
- [23:11]
B
Yeah.
- [23:11]
A
So that's the thing that I have to keep coming Back to.
- [23:13]
B
I think, no, that's. That's really incredibly good. You know, for me, for five years, I have been preparing for the worst. I've struggled with money issues growing up. You know, I carried with me a lot of, like, I need to hustle and I need to make money because everything's going to fall apart, because it always does.
- [23:35]
A
And if you don't pick it up, no one will.
- [23:37]
B
No one will. And my father even recently said to me, like, you don't want the life that I have right now, Stacy, because he's 80 and he's still having to work every single day.
- [23:46]
A
Day.
- [23:46]
B
And my mother, 76, and she has to work every single day. And so when you see that in front of you, it sometimes is really, really hard to untether. Like, all of these things that you just said are very true and valid. But also, what if I start to honor myself and take care of myself, and then every bad thing that I ever thought would happen will happen? But, you know, what happened is over the last five years, you know, I. I, in my own way, crashed and burned and then came back up and built something way more stable with a great team. And I have two companies now, and my sister works full time with me. My husband is wonderful. He's never made me feel small. He's always wanted me to take up space. I'm very fortunate in that regard. But, you know, even though my business is successful, the goal has never been, I'm going to bring my husband home from work. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's a wonderful dream, but that's never been our dream. He loves working as much as I do. He's brilliant. He has a PhD in mathematics. He's been working as a backend software developer. And there was a mass layoff at his company, and for two months, we haven't been able to find a new position for him. And so talk about, like, every scary thing coming to pass. And then all of a sudden, I stopped. I was like, wait a second. I was like, stacey, you've been preparing for the worst case scenario in your body for years. And let's actually look at what's happened here. You have enough to take care of your family.
- [25:13]
A
Yeah.
- [25:13]
B
Things are different. We are cutting back on a few things here and there. Insurance is different. But, you know, like, we are okay. And if this had happened even a year ago, or probably two years ago, when my nervous system was still completely like, I think I wouldn't have been able to keep moving forward. And so you know, I had my own version of a crash and burn, not exactly the same. My marriage is still intact, but, like, my humanity almost disappeared and had some heartbreaks along the way. And then I have been healing slowly for several years. And so this year where, like, I'm looking at my students and people I love, and it's a hard economy in many ways. But then my creative business is doing just fine, which is weird. People don't realize it, but, like, creativity and beauty and even if it's functional, like tea towels or it's something, you know, aspirational that, you know, you're hanging on your wall and you cherish, like, people need that right now, and we are a source of that creation. And all of a sudden I was like, we're okay. My husband did tell me it's okay if I speak about this publicly. So not this one in particular, but, like, in general, he's like, I know you have to talk about our life, Stacy. So he's okay. My point is, is that I think that, you know, we're always trying to build this thing, this idea of, like, the perfect what everything we're chasing. Is it a certain amount of money? Is it the business that we've built that, you know, looks a certain way? Is it stability? Is it creative output? I think that most people don't really know why they're building what they're building. And now here I am, and I'm, like, in a really hard spot, and I'm like, you know what? I'm okay. And that doesn't mean it's perfect or easy, but everything I need is right here. And it's because the past several years, specifically, I've relearned how to love myself and honor myself and my needs and work on the things that need attending to internally. And in turn, like, work has gotten better. I don't know if you've felt that too, but the more you worked on yourself and re kind of aligning your life, the better I could discern what was right for me or the right thing, like, came to me. Did you experience that at all, Emily?
- [27:31]
A
Oh, I mean, I feel like, yes, because creative work is a reflection of the integrity that you have within yourself, which is why when you're clear about your values, your wants, your vision, your like, all those things are in alignment. Your creative work harmonizes with that also. So, yeah, the more you know yourself, the better of an artist you're going to be across the board.
- [27:54]
B
Yeah. And I think it's really hard to see a business model that makes space for that too, because as we're teaching people how to create income from their art and build their personal art brands, what's hard to put on paper and curriculum, and I think that you only really get the opportunity to share is whenever you're like, in the setting to have these talks with your students or live Q and A's is like, this is the part that you can't necessarily quantify, but is maybe the most important thing you can do right, Is like, I don't know, the nurturing of yourself and being brave enough to let go of the things that were, like, not right for you. Talk about as a creative, sometimes we love to create the things we love to create because it's meaningful to us and it's wonderful. But sometimes in your to create income, you have to let go of some of the things that you love doing. Let me just tell you where I'm at my business right now. All we're doing is flowers on our tea towels. Flowers. If you talked to me six years ago, I would never draw a flower because I was like, I don't like flowers. I'm not trend based. I'm not like other girls, Emily. I'm not like other girls. And now to grow my business, I've had to, like, let go and open up and change how I did things because, like, there's a real opportunity. So the point here is, like, sometimes there's things that we committed to, and then we realize if we're not willing to, like, loosen up and let go of that rigid thing, even if we thought it was for a good reason, like, we may be missing out on something that's on the other side, and it turns out I was just afraid of drawing flowers. Do you ever feel that in your creative world there's, like, the integrity of creating what you want to create, but then there's also, like, what if it's fear that's holding you back from exploring more?
- [29:35]
A
Oh, I feel like, especially once you, like we talked about at the beginning, once you, like, practice a thing and you're in it and you're like, okay, cool, now I can share this really, really boldly. The downside to that is if you stop explaining experimenting, then you kind of track yourself into this thing that may or may not fully serve you because you may not really know what you actually want to be doing fully. One of my core values is freedom. And I translate that to every single thing in my entire life. I will be willing to change it. I will flow. I will, you know, evolve As I kind of want to. Part of the struggle of being a creative person is you get really accustomed to being good at things. You're really, really good at everything. That also leads us to maybe not being as comfortable being a beginner and being new and being bad at something. So I recommend try some new things frequently, like, all the time. I'm doing my version of doing the artist's way, my version of the artist date, which is something that she talks about, Julia Cameron talks about in the artist's way. You know, this. The morning pages are part of the practice. The artist date is part of the practice. And she recommends going out into the world and doing something solo. And I'm like, okay, I'm really. I've been doing that for a few years. I want to change it up a little bit. So my version of the artist date now is to try something new and to be like, okay, I tried it. That was fun. So the more I can accustom myself to doing that, the better I'll be at, you know, just doing stuff. And it's okay if it's not the very, very, very best, because eventually the things that I like and that, you know, if I find something that I'm like, okay, I'm not the best yet, but that was so fun. Follow that pleasure. I think following pleasure, maybe it's a moment of recovery from 2021, 2022. But part of my shift in recovery from burnout has been pleasure. I cannot speak highly enough about being like, do the things that feel fun. I think also when you were saying people are still buying tea towels, they're following pleasure, Even though the economy is a little weird right now and things are a little strange. My art sales have not declined. Your tea towel sales have not declined. People still want accessible pleasure. I think that's so reassuring to the health of our culture. I think people that, you know, consistently want something that's like, oh, okay, it's affordable. I enjoy this. I'm gonna, you know, get this little thing. But for those of us that are on the creative side who are maybe having to produce this and make this thing happen, running a business right now can feel really, really draining. And I think the more you can just be like, that was fun for me. Do that. So I think you can find ways to kind of fit your flow, fit your desires. And I really do think you can run a business based on mostly pleasure, accessible pleasure.
- [32:20]
B
The name of your book. There you go, Emily. I don't know. I just. Something about that sounds beautiful. Be a Beginner again and chasing pleasure. And that's not a bad thing.
- [32:33]
A
No.
- [32:33]
B
And I think that whenever you are solely living online and what you see is maybe not this message, it can be hard. Let me ask you, I guess as we wrap up, as you're trying these new things and you're a beginner again and you're chasing pleasure, is this a part of your message that you're sharing on social media? As Emily Jeffords I definitely share this.
- [32:57]
A
In my podcast a lot where I get to share, like, more long form conversations. We've talked about pleasure many times, mostly because for some reason I feel like it's countercultural. It's so funny because our habits are clearly driven by dopamine and by pleasure.
- [33:13]
B
Yeah.
- [33:14]
A
And yet what we allow for ourselves is like responsibility, hustle, grind, maybe even being uncomfortable intentionally. What actually brings you the most both, like, in line with your values, in line with your goals. There's pleasure in that. And can you just continue that thread? Because that's where I want to live. And it's more than just a bubble bath once a week. It's like a daily. Am I here? Am I enjoying this? And if not, change it up.
- [33:44]
B
Absolutely. Emily, most people here listening know who you are, but, you know, I always like to ask because they're like something you'd like to share with my listeners about something you're working on or if they can just like keep in touch with you, what would you want to share?
- [33:57]
A
Well, you can follow me at Emily Underscore Jeffords. Oh, one thing that I would be happy to share with your audience is we talked a little bit about, like, what it means to be an artist these days. I wrote a little book called Creative Stability, and it's about how to run a creative business. As I said, I've been in business for a long time, so I've seen a lot of cycles come and go. I began my business during the 2008 economic crisis. I don't. That was a crazy time to begin, let me tell you.
- [34:27]
B
Yeah.
- [34:27]
A
And I, I think maybe there's a little bit of like, past trauma that I've been like, are we going back there? And if so, can I depend on myself? And this is kind of my answer to that. We didn't talk about this, but I run creative retreats and at the beginning of every creative retreat, we have a little check in where we get to talk about what season is everyone coming to retreat in, depending on how they're feeling in the moment, what they need. Because it really affects the energy that I want to offer them at the retreat individually. So this book also touches on what season you might be in in your creative flow in your life. And there's just obviously very different energies if you're in summer versus winter, spring versus autumn. It's just, you know, you have to cycle through all the seasons. But I think if you live in just a production based, kind of type A driven world and maybe personality and maybe culture, as we all do, it can be really, really easy to just want to be highly producing, which is a really summertime energy. You are in all the seasons, you cycle through all of them. So being aware of which one you might be in and kind of soaking into the luxury of that season and the goodness of that season, I think that's a really helpful way of grounding yourself to where you are right now in part of the like the larger world and the larger economy and the larger all the things. So this little book, it's not very long. It's like 20 pages maybe, but it kind of talks about the connection of those two things and how we can be stable in all of them. So I think it's a really, again, it's kind of what I needed right now. So I hope it's helpful to everyone else as well. We'll put a link here for you guys to. You can have that.
- [36:10]
B
How wonderful. Sweet Emily, thank you so much for sharing and for even taking the time to write that book. Because even if it's what you needed, it's probably going to help a lot of other people too. And it's been a delightful chat. It's been so fun. Thank you.
- [36:23]
A
Thank you. It was really sweet.
- [36:25]
B
All right, bye. Bye. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you subscribe to this podcast and then share it with one of your best art friends? I'd really appreciate it. And then head on over to Instagram and follow me at the leverage your art account and you can keep up with all of our future episodes. Thank you so much for your support. It means everything to have you here, listening and learning.
- [36:51]
A
Bye.
- [36:56]
C
Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to libsynads. Com. That's L I B S Y N Ads. Com Today.