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Art + Audience
Ep. 30: Andy J. Pizza on How to Build a Creative Career as a Neurodivergent Artist
00:33:27
In this first part of a powerful two-part conversation, Stacie sits down with the creative and deeply introspective Andy J. Pizza, illustrator, speaker, and host of the beloved Creative Pep Talk podcast. They dive headfirst into the personal side of...
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- [00:00]
A
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- [00:20]
B
I think a lot of people that are ADHD and anxious end up becoming self help junkies because you're like, I got to figure this out, man. So I'm very much in that category, especially things like habit form. They would say, okay, do the same thing the same way. And if you do that enough, it'll become automatic. And right around the time it should become automatic, my body rejects it. I'm like, I am not doing this. I will lose it if I have to do this one more day.
- [00:47]
C
Wouldn't it be nice if your art business loved you back? Hi, I'm Stacy Bloomfield. After years of trial and error and late night doodling, I went from being a coffee shop manager to running a vibrant seven figure art business that I love. And now I'm on a mission to help more artists create an art business that they love too. So I invite you to find a cozy spot, pull out your favorite sketchbook, and listen in. It's never too late to chase your creative dreams. Welcome to the Art plus audience podcast. Hello, Andy J. Pizza. I'm so glad you're here.
- [01:22]
B
Hey, Stacy. I'm really pumped to be here.
- [01:24]
C
I was just telling my husband about interviewing you and he's like, is pizza his real name? And I bet you could ask that more than anything in the entire world.
- [01:30]
B
I get that asked almost every day. And no, it's not my real name. But I do really love pizza. When I go do school visits, I say, I asked the kids, like, who thinks that's my real name? And some people raise their hand. I said, who thinks I love pizza so much that I married it and took its name? And they're like, yeah, like, that's closer to the truth.
- [01:50]
C
You're every fifth grader's hero. Yeah, I love it.
- [01:54]
B
It's funny because I made that change in my, the way I identify as an artist way before I was making picture books. So it wasn't, it was very on accident how well that fits into that world. And so when I go to schools or book readings or whatever, they're always like, Mr. Pizza, it's just your pizza. And I'm like, man, I did not even plan this, but it works.
- [02:16]
C
It's lovely. So, Andy, I'M so stoked that you're here, because if people don't know you like they should. You have this amazing podcast creative pep talk that I've listened to for years. I love how you're unafraid to talk about, like, hard things, like mental health, but also you're all about creative inspiration. And, you know, I don't know, I just feel like you love to get in deep into little crevices of this life that a lot of people don't know how to express but feel. And you are really good at putting words to it. So thank you for what you do.
- [02:47]
B
Yeah, I really appreciate it. You know, I think it ebbs and flows sometimes. I'm really, like, jazzed about the career element of it. I really think a lot like a career strategist almost, mainly because, you know, on the other side, I'm neurodivergent. I have all these different mental health things that I've tried to account for in my creative career paths. So strategy. So they're both sides are always kind of present, and I think they are really important to see them as connected. And so, yeah, I think you're spot on there.
- [03:25]
C
You know, I. I'm similar in the sense that, like, okay, when people work with me or take one of my classes or talk to me for too long, they always ask me, like. Like, they're like, how do I put this? Are you adhd? Are you this? I'm like, well, actually, you know, my. My flavor is ocd. And talk about it openly, too, because it's so much a part of, like, the work I create or have created in the past and figuring out, like, people look at how I work, and I'm a real workhorse. But it's because there's a part of my brain that needs to, like, really get into all the little details of things and understand it inside and out. But that's fun for me, and that's, like, how I thrive. And so I think figuring out how you work is, like, the most important thing, because we can't replicate Andy's life, can't replicate my life or my career. It has to be, like, what serves you. I've had students be like, I would hate to do what you do, Stacy. No offense, I love what you do. But, like, it would. It would be hard. Has anyone ever talked to you that way, too?
- [04:24]
B
Yeah, definitely. And I think that it's funny. Like, I've been doing this podcast for 10 years. When we hit the 500th episode, I went back to some of the early episodes just to just kind of review a bit. But I didn't want to because I was very afraid. I knew it was gonna be painful in all kinds of ways. But when I started listening, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that so many of the topics have been a thread throughout the whole thing. And you know, I didn't understand them as well or I wasn't as polished talking about them, but I realized like, oh, these are the first three episodes. These are the same things I'm talking about topically. And one of them is called strengths. And it, I didn't realize it at the time, but the core of the show is this positive self psychology, which is not. It's a different thing to positive thinking. It's nothing like that in the psychology space. It's a well known shift where they went from the bible of psychology, being the dsm, being like, this is what's wrong with you to oh, what if we start with what's good about your psychology? What can we work with? What if we assume that, that at your core you're not broken, you're actually good. And you need to channel these things. And so that's kind of what strengths based thinking is about. And neurodivergence is about. Neurodivergence is about saying not that you're different and this is your disorder necessarily, but you're different and this is what's great about it. And this is how you can channel it. It's not necessarily broken if you know how to channel it. So yes, I think that a huge part of everything I do is assuming that all these quirks have positive attributes if I channel them correctly and I build a lifestyle and a way of approaching work that maximizes those things. And so my everyday is not going to be palatable to most people. And I think that's the ideal because then you're really contributing something that only you could contribute. And that feels great too. That's, that's what, you know, I get. I derive a lot of meaning from that. I think there is a lot, there can be a lot of meaning to be found in work when you approach it that way. But unfortunately, you know, our system is more set up to create. I don't want to be overly harsh because I feel like I don't want to be like, they create the cogs. Yes, I think, but I think there's some truth to that. Like they. It is like a human assembly line going through school trying to create. And I actually love education. I'm a big fan of school. But I do think an awareness of we're not creating the same individual that can just be plunked into any scenario. So, yeah, I totally am with you there.
- [07:07]
C
And, you know, that leads to like, if you can identify that, then it can come through in your work and your creative voice, which is easier said than done. Like whenever I'm talking to other artists and we talk about standing out because people want to be, you know, they want to build a creative brand. They want to be artists who in many cases can create some income, if not full time income.
- [07:28]
B
Yeah.
- [07:28]
C
And build this audience. And the, the advice is like, you know, be fully yourself, like put it into everything. But if you don't actually think there's good parts of you, number one, that's going to be really, really hard to be vulnerable and put that into your work or talk about it as if it's not something like to be embarrassed of or shameful, but like, what does it even mean to like, get really weird with your art? And that's the thing that makes you stand out. I think I've been doing this long enough that I think we've, you know, maybe gone through the hard parts of what it means to like, be not sure who we are and then take risks and then put it into these big projects and put it out into the world. And so like 16 years later, I'm a lot more comfortable with myself. But like, what about when you're talking to people about their voice and it emerging?
- [08:10]
B
Yeah, I think I love what you said at the start there. I loved all that. But the start gets at this thing. I did a series, it was about. It was kind of a bigger series. It's the one, it's the one that we. It's called Right side Out. It was episode 449, I think, and we did six episodes. It ends with an interview with my mom, who I am mostly estranged from. But I. And I'm assuming this is where I get the adhd because it is hereditary and it's not my corporate accountant father. So I did this series because I wanted to explore that theme of positive self psychology. And the kind of climax of the series is this idea that you can't make art you love if you hate yourself. Because art is self expression. You're never gonna love that expression if you hate the thing it's an expression of which is you. And so that sounds nice, but it's. I think it's actually true. And so when I was starting out in my creative journey, I was in a place where I really. I'd watched my mom really struggle, and she'd left my family and started another family, left that family, never held down a job. Just a lot, a lot of struggles, ended up with all kinds of other things going on. And I felt like, oh, I'm like this, and I want to be the opposite of that. And so I spent my first, you know, into my teens and first half of my 20s really trying to run away from who I was. At the same time, I was trying to create an art practice, which is really ridiculous, you know, But I didn't. I couldn't see that contradiction. You know, I couldn't see, like, oh, you can't run away from yourself and self express at the same time. And so it wasn't until I started the journey for diagnosis to adhd. And this is the funny thing. I talk a lot about adhd. I'm not medicated. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with medication. I know it saved lives. It doesn't work well with my system for a bunch of reasons we don't need to get into. But I talk about it a lot and I say I'm not medicated because I think it gets misunderstood sometimes as like, oh, I discovered this. I got medication. My life changed. What changed, actually, was learning about myself and learning like, oh, this is the kind of brain I have. And. And then the more I read about it, the more I was introduced to this idea of neurodivergence. And I started thinking, oh, maybe my mom's problem wasn't who she was, but that she was trying to be somebody that she wasn't. And she kept failing over and over at trying to be something else. And I quit trying to be the opposite of her. And I started to question whether it would be more productive to try to be more like her than she let herself be. And so all of that is like storytelling. Like, I wrote all of those lines over years because, you know, that narrative kind of helped me work through it, but it's all true. And that was the. For me, that's why making art that you love, that feels authentic, starts with loving yourself. That's a worldview. And it also rubs up against lots of prominent worldviews I don't like to polarize for no reason. So there's plenty of stuff I don't talk about. I'm not afraid to talk about anything. But there's a lot of things I choose to not talk about for kind of purposeful reasons. That. That saying that I'm aware of the More people think about it, they're going to realize, oh, that's actually a controversial thing to start with. You're a good thing. That should be cultivated.
- [11:41]
C
Yeah, that's.
- [11:42]
B
And I would. I'll go to my deathbed on that one. So I'm happy to polarize. And I think if you're an artist, I think it's really essential to develop some positive relationship with yourself, even if you won't go as far as I will.
- [11:55]
C
Well, you know what's funny is I being who I am and the parents I grew up with. Now, first of all, let me say I don't know how you do it with being able to talk so openly about your family. Because, like, my parents are alive, I have relationships with them, and there's so much about my story that people will never really be able to know, and they don't necessarily need to know. But who I am and how I was shaped is, you know, part of my DNA, but also, like, the environment I grew up in. And so without trying to, like, mom and dad, if you're listening, I love you, but without trying to, like, dig on you, you know, I was brought up in this really anxious household. What if the bad thing happens? Just expect it all the time. And so by the time I got into an adulthood and, you know, I got married young, I've known the guy I married since I was 12, so he's used to this. Whatever this vibrating energy is that I have. I didn't realize how negative and punishing my thoughts were all the time. And so for one reason or another, I ended up going to therapy. And I've been in therapy for, gosh, you know, six years, seven years, and there's several different times eft emotionally focused. And then I've done, like, you know, the. The thing where you're trying to, like, help with trauma. Emdr. And I've done that work for a while, and I want to do that.
- [13:13]
B
Okay, I could use that.
- [13:14]
C
I think that I wanted to deny it to myself because I believe people have gone through way harder crap than I have. And so I think that in my world, in my mind, I was like, I should be able to handle this, because if you look at it, my life is not terrible. So when I finally started going to therapy and the doctor suggested, like, I might have obsessive compulsive disorder and these intrusive thoughts that were literally controlling everything I did, I was terrified whenever he wanted me to deal with it, because I was like, what's going to motivate Me now, like, when I really started to think about. It's like, I don't know who I am without this pressure. And I, like, avoided some of the work I needed to do for a while because I thought it was who I was and it is who I am, but it was, like, the most punishing part of who I was, and it had become the most dominant voice in my world. And so when we did the work to finally start, like, untethering all these things, and I started to wake up in the morning and not feel the immensity of, like, terribleness of my. I thought it was horrible. I thought the bad thing is about to happen. The luck that I had was luck, and it was about to run out no matter what I did, no matter how successful I was. And so when I finally had the breathing room to be, like, I'm still who I am, and the thoughts don't have to control me, and how do I take what I'm left with, which is like, maybe the not so punishing parts of obsessive compulsiveness and let it be a. An attribute. I got a lot happier. I think I've been afraid to be happy. As a creative sometimes talk. People are always talking about. Creativity has to be born from pain, right? But when it can come from this place of joy and, like, celebration, it's way more fun, frankly. And fun is not bad. And I used to think that if you're having fun, that means that, like, not really aware of, like, what's happening in the world. So that's, like, part of my journey with it. And then, you know, raising kids, then, you know, just being like, I see it in them, too. These things that are like me that they have. And I'm like, man, if I can just help them to, like, get to love themselves a little bit faster, that then maybe they'll just have more opportunity to, like, I don't know, is just happiness. Wanting that to be so bad. I struggle with happiness. People are shocked. I'm a nervous smiler, Andy. So people think I'm happy all the time. I'm really just like, you don't want to know. I'm an anxious person. But, you know, all that goes into, like, I don't know, the work I was doing before I figured out, like, maybe this part of me and the work that came out as I was, like, learning to like myself and love myself. And then now I'm 16 years into this career, and I pretty much do whatever I want, which is a totally different feeling. And you're there too. Right. You're chasing projects you of and taking on the work that only you want to like. What does that look like for you? What is your work like?
- [15:53]
B
Yeah, I'm just going to address one quick thing that you said because it's, it's something that comes up a lot. People hear the story that I talk about and I don't tell my mom's story. I tell my story and she's a character in that story. But I don't. There's so much that I don't talk about. Even things that happen to me with, related to my mom that I don't share because I think it's just kind of encroaches on her dignity in a way that I don't want to. But people are like, oh, I wish I could talk about my family like that. And I always think this is the blessing and the curse of being abandoned by your mom at a young age. So, you know, that's a big part of it is that I, as a human to human, I feel like I owe her dignity, but I don't feel like I owe her a ton more than that. And I also talked to her about it. I told her when I first started exploring talking about this and her being a piece of that. I told her early on and she's actually, even though I've had a lot of pain and struggle in relationship to her, she's very gracious person. And so when I told her that and I actually showed her one of these talks and then I interviewed her about it, it's a blessing and a curse. That'll be the bookmark for that section or the bookend. Yeah, my everyday. So my everyday changes a lot. I think that's a big ADHD thing. One of the things that's tough about being neurodivergent is when it comes to like behavioral psychology, a lot of the studies, if they're like, well this works for 70% of people, you might not be in that 70% because you're not a neurotypical person. So a lot of the things like I've read a lot about, I think a lot of people that are ADHD and anxious end up becoming self help junkies because you're like, I gotta figure this out, man. So I'm very much in that category. And so I've read so much about behavioral psychology. A lot of it has really helped me make a much more positive lifestyle. But some of it I've had to really alter. So especially things like habit formation. One of the things that would happen is they would say, okay, do the same thing the same way. And if you do that enough, it'll become automatic. And right around the time it should become automatic, my body rejects it. I'm like, I am not doing this. I will lose it if I have to do this one more day. And so I've had to realize, like, oh, I have to experiment and figure out what is my own ways of doing things. And so I have learned to develop habits. Like, I run about three miles every other day and I run super slow. It's not, maybe it sounds impressive to some people. I guarantee it's not. And it's not impressive at all. And it's mostly mental health related. But the way that I've managed to create that habit over the past seven years or whatever is I don't do the same thing the same way until it becomes automatic. I do the same thing a different way so that it's always fun. And so I. My playlist is sacred. I'm like always updating it. I will listen to anything, I'll try anything, anything that'll make it interesting to run. And so that's why, you know, my approach to I have to have kind of. I saw a meme the other day and I was like, this is it. Like I always used to say adhd, my to do list. It doesn't matter what's on it. Can be small, can be huge, whatever, it doesn't matter. I. It's always hard because I know there's an invisible to do list or task at the top. That is, how do I get myself to do any of this? How do I get my brain to do this? And then I saw a meme the other day that was like having ADHD is like knowing you have this evil elf that you have to figure out how to get them to do stuff without asking them directly or they'll curse you. That's so me. And so I've learned like, okay, I have to be a little bit gentle about my way in. So I've done a lot of different things to try to create productivity.
- [19:52]
C
Yeah.
- [19:53]
B
Now like, that can look like I usually try to get my exercise in at the start of the day because that creates, that's the hardest thing and that creates some positive momentum towards being, taking care of stuff. But I usually, you know, I kind of try to figure out like, what is the thing that if I don't get it done today, it's a problem and try to do that first. Don't like, let myself Procrastinate on a bunch of other things. And so yeah, it's really a lot about like loving myself but managing, managing myself, learning what techniques work with this individual. And that's a big part of my everyday.
- [20:34]
C
Yeah. And you know, whenever I'm talking to people about their own productivity. Yeah, everyone wants the path. Everyone wants like the formula to follow because you know, if you're going to do something, most people want to be successful and not like fail at it because people view failure as a whole other topic. But you know, people want to be able to start something and do well with it. So everyone wants to know like what's the path, Stacy? What's the path, Andy? And you know, I think back to this realization I had. I was working with someone for a while to help me figure out parts of my business and they're the most regimented person I've ever met in my entire life. Every day they're waking up and they're going doing CrossFit for like an hour and a half and they have this methodical life that never shifts. And I don't think they ever skipped working out one day in the three years that I was working with them. And you know, for a while I was trusting that their way was the right way because they were successful. And so it was actually like I don't want to this person, if they're listening, they know I'm talking about them. There's good parts too. But like I actually found myself in the most miserable part of being who I am because I literally had told myself like this is right and I need to become this. Success means becoming this very, very regimented, consistent. But you know, I'm also consistent just in a different way. And I get a lot done. I've let myself start changing my schedule whenever I need to. I used to be so like committed to things that I would do it at my own expense. My friends say I'm like a commitment holic. Like I'll never give up something once I've said I'm going to do it. So you have to know for me if I like cancel a meeting or change it. Like to me that is like revolutionary because I thought this is what success looked like. So whenever I stopped kind of following that mode and I, I'm like you. I've read probably every productivity, every self help book, everything about like finding myself, everything from the artist's way to like, you know, everything about habits, stacking and in between. And I guess what I find is like I can't actually Follow the artist's way all the way through, even if it's gentle. With Julia Cameron, I also can't habit stack the way that, like, James Clear does. You know, I'll do it for a few days, and I don't think that's bad. But, no, people often feel like if there's a plan to follow and the person's successful, they're following and they can't do it. That means they're broken. So this just is kind of a end to that idea that, like, I don't know, you can't figure out what's good for you if you don't, like, give yourself permission to make those shifts and changes. Because for me, it's, like, tension when I'm not living in a way that, like, serves me. I feel like I'm like, there's two opposing magnets, you know, and I'm. And that's the feeling I have. And so anytime I can feel that relief, like, the work's better, I'm happier, I sleep better, I have more fun. My team is way less stressed out by me, frankly. And that's what we all want in our creative work. But do you think that there's ever a point, like, have we earned the right, Andy, at this point in our careers to have that control because we've put in all the years of work before that? That's, like, kind of a weird thing to say, but sometimes I tell myself that, like, I've earned the right to be able to do this. That's kind of wrong thinking, though, sometimes. What do you think?
- [23:43]
B
Why do you think it's wrong? I don't. I don't have an answer yet, but I'm. I'm curious.
- [23:47]
C
Okay. So I was brought up in an environment where you kind of have to earn, like, goodness and, you know, religiously. That's the environment I was brought up in. Like, even if it wasn't intended, my OCD brain interpreted like, if you work hard for the things that you have, you have to deserve what you have. The people who don't have what you have mean that they don't deserve it because maybe there's something wrong in their life and they need to deal with that thing. So I have this whole baggage of, like, needing to earn everything that I've had. It can't be easy. It can't be simple. So then I'm like, my brain has to tell myself, well, I'm 16 years in. I've earned the right to be able to do this, but could I have done that? Earlier and I'm just making up rules. I don't know. What do you think?
- [24:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think that I was raised in a very similar way. So I totally get that. I definitely, even if it wasn't explicit, I wouldn't say that I was like taught this. I do think it was just a culture of if you're in a bad situation, it's basically your fault. And it's mostly to do with you not working hard enough. And so I totally relate to that. I think again, the blessing and the curse of growing up with my mom, which is just coming up a lot right now, is that I saw her try to live in a way that was not authentic. And it destroyed her over and over and over again. And so I knew, I don't think I had probably words to describe it, but that was the gift that she gave me. By the time I was 17, 18, I knew I'm not going to be able to over the long haul, live in an inauthentic way. Live in a way where I'm dying inside, pushing myself and trying, you know, in scenarios that are dysregulating me. And I wouldn't have any language for that. But I. That is what I noticed. And so I knew from the beginning I'm going to have to figure out how to work with myself. And so now, having said that, I've had lots of periods of time in my 15 year plus creative journey where I have pushed myself too hard. Burnout, had to unpick all of these different expectations. And also not just expectations, you also have to deal with the reality of our culture and time and our economy and what's expected of you and what, you know, there are certain things that don't work for me.
- [26:15]
C
Yeah, right.
- [26:16]
B
Still have to do them. That's the, you know, there's a lot of stuff like that too. And so for me it's more like, I think it's holding attention, those two realities, like doing enough research on myself, you know, experimenting with how things work for me, also taking in information from other people and seeing what's possible given the circumstances I'm in. But I don't think it, I don't think it ever. These days, I don't think it ever comes down to a moral or ethical dilemma I don't have. I don't view it that way. So I don't. To me it's more like what kind of animals are we? And in the animals that we are, what am I? And you know, what kind of breed am I in? This thing and what tends to work for people like that. And what I've learned is, okay, most people, like some people think that ADHD came from like hunter gatherers and that it's a particular kind of human and neurobiology. And so really I've learned like as a hunter type I can be on four hours, but when I'm on it's all on. It is as on, it's more twice as alive as anyone else. So yeah, you're putting an eight hour day, but my four hour day, I'm twice there right now. I usually work longer than that, but you know, that's my. Okay, so that's some of that ethical moral dilemma actually showing up, defending myself. I work long than God.
- [27:46]
C
You said that, Andy, because I thought you were lazy. I really, I was going to tell you later but said it.
- [27:52]
B
I'm joking, but I know I don't have much more than four good hours. And so the rest of the stuff is more like admin or you know, whatever. And if I have to do harder stuff for eight hours or you know, sometimes longer than that, I know those have to be few and far between or they're gonna destroy me. And so I try to bear all that in mind. The other thing that came to mind as you were talking through that was one of the big through lines on my show that dates all the way back to the early days of doing it is this idea of. I think of it like pulsing or non dualism. And it's this way of realizing that I think where a lot of self help stuff goes wrong is them saying this is it, it's this, do this thing. My experience is, and I think there's a lot of good reason why this is true is it's never this, it's this and then that, this and then that. It's always a pulsing. I don't know that I don't have enough of a true science background to back this up, but I've read enough books about it to feel like I've got something here where I think it's something about left and right brain hemisphere. I think it's something about needing. You hear this a lot in creative circles. The idea that you can't write and edit at the same time, that could be writing, but it could just be creating. You can't create and edit. If you try to do those at the same time, your brain's gonna just break. It's gonna be exactly like what you're talking about with the magnets feeling that feeling of this is not going to work. So if you're starting to create and your editor voice is already chiming in, you're not in the part of your brain that you need to be. And so for me I've had to realize like it's not listen to the gurus or don't, it's not that. It's take on, have a season of openness, have a season of closeness, have a season of open to. Let's try James Clear's thing, let's try Julia Cameron saying you have a season of that. Let's take that on. You know, one of the things I think when I talk about loving yourself, cultivating yourself, the only thing about that that I sometimes feel like, oh, there's a missing piece here. And it's that in my early 20s when I probably hated myself the most, most of that was not. Was pretty misguided. However, one part of it that I think was really useful was there was an emptying out of what I thought I was. There was a growth mindset that said I could become something different than I am now. There's a degree to which that I think can get you in trouble. But I got rid of a lot of hang ups or assumptions about who I was because before that I thought I was an extrovert. I thought, you know, that I couldn't exercise. I thought there were so many things I thought I couldn't do. And so I think for me it's just like what I was talking to you about. I think before we started I was talking about how I've taken this to speak of another self help guy, Cal Newport's approach to seasonality where every season you're really embracing a different way of being. And so this also is a pulsing for me creatively where I have a creative balance and a pendulum swing where the summer I'm really taking in stuff and maintaining my career and then in the fall I'm taking a bigger project and then in the winter I'm stepping back and thinking about what is the next project going to be? In the spring I'm doing another big project. It doesn't work exactly like that, but it's kind of like that. And there's something about this and I, I think that people that are probably mistaken as these are the right brain people. I actually think they're probably better at whole brain living, which is a Jill Bolte Taylor thing. Whole brain living being, you're able to access the left brain, the editor, the executor, the logic person, and then swing back to the other side and be abstract and symbolic and fun and loose. And I think, to me that's there's something. It's really difficult to live that way, mainly because from what I've read, the left brain really doesn't respect the right brain. So when you go over to that editor, this is what I've learned a lot in my I talk a lot about creativity, a lot about career. I've learned if I start listening to too many business podcasts, I will have a hard time listening to the art podcasts. Oh, yeah, reach for them first, because I'm in that left brain energy and my left brain's like, dude, who gives a crap about that? Like, no, what you need to get down to business. You need to make some money.
- [32:48]
C
Like, yeah.
- [32:49]
B
And I realized, like, oh, no, I've recognized, like, oh, that's a siren. That is the thing that's luring me away. Then I listen to one art podcast. I'm like, ah, this is what actually matters. So I don't know. I'm blabbing now, but there's something about this pulsing that I think is really key.
- [33:10]
C
We had such a good conversation that we had to make this episode into two parts. This is the end of part one. Join me next week for part two. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you subscribe to this podcast and then share it with one of your best art friends? I'd really appreciate. Appreciate it. And then head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Leverage your art account and you can keep up with all of our future episodes. Thank you so much for your support. It means everything to have you here listening and learning. Bye.
- [33:46]
A
Warning.
- [33:47]
B
The following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be.
- [33:51]
A
Filled with F words when you're hiring. We at ZipRecruiter know you can feel frustrated, forlorn, even, like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix all that, and right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip with ZipRecruiter you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.
- [34:29]
B
Fantastic.
- [34:31]
A
So whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people. Get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com Zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget that's ZipRecruiter.com Zip finally, that's ZipRecruiter.Com Zip.