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Art + Audience
Ep. 31: Creative Growth Tips for Artists: Crockpot Ideas, Side Projects, and Sustainable Success with Andy J. Pizza
00:33:18
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Hello, I'm Stacey Bloomfield and wel part two of my chat with Andy J. Pizza. If you missed part one, go give that a listen first and then come back here to part two. Let's roll the intro and get right back into the conversation. Wouldn't it be nice if your art business loved you back? Hi, I'm Stacy Bloomfield. After years of trial and error and late night doodling, I went from being a coffee shop manager to running a vibrant seven figure art business that I love. And now I'm on a mission to help more artists create an art business that they love too. So I invite you to find a cozy spot, pull out your favorite sketchbook, and listen in. It's never too late to chase your creative dreams. Welcome to the Art plus Audience podcast. So what's interesting is I've never heard the term whole brain living.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I think that, like I would say with the five minutes of expertise I now have on this, I am definitely a whole brainer because people often talk to me because like Stacy, it's so rare to be the person who can be this creative person but also run the business. And the thing is, it's. This is just who I am. And I think it's just how I function. But I think I make a lot of artists uncomfortable because I am really comfortable being in that like administrative area now. It's not that I'm the best at it, but I can be good at it. And like growing up, I definitely wasn't in an environment that cultivated like the creative side of anybody. I mean, there's maybe an art class and a music class, but really when people knew me, they knew me as like straight A student, the head of all the clubs, all these things. So when I was like, I actually want to be an artist when I grow up, people were like, but do you? Are you okay?
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A
Really? The best use of these resources is that. Okay.
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B
And so I actually think that there was like this little part of me that actually knew that deep down inside this was, I wasn't going to be ashamed of this and I was going to hold on to this identity. Maybe it's just who I wanted to be this creative person. But I always was great at drawing and I was just wanted to go to museums and I loved color and film pattern and everything. But you know, that wasn't like easy to talk about, but it's a lot easier to talk to people about, you know, like budgets and you know, plans and this and that. So I don't know. I think I make a lot of artists uncomfortable because they don't think I live enough in the other realm. But I, for me it's not hard to flip back and forth. But the thing you just said about like if I'm listening to too many self help books, like I will like not even want to go to the art areas because I actually think I'm afraid of feeling rejected by like that community. But also I think that like I feel so safe over here, it feels scary to turn that part off. And it's the OCD part of my brain, I imagine that's like this is keeping you safe, you being good at these things. I can't stand on art alone. Like I have to have both. And like I said, the, my internal world and the discussions I have with myself are like, it's hard to talk to my husband and he's a mathematician, okay. He is a black and white thinker. He, he doesn't listen to my podcast, but he knows we talk about these things on here. And so he's really great at just listening to me go back and forth with myself. This isn't. He just smiles and nods. He's really good at smile and nod and not judging me for it. And the greatest gift he's given me is non judgment because I judge myself so harshly. And like I said, like I have never felt fully like the most creative artistic people in this world and online like actually look at me as a real enough artist because I care about money. I do. I care about security. I care about security. And it's not the money, it's the safety that I'm craving. So I think I'm a weirdo, but in a good way because there's nothing bad about being weird whole brained artist, creative person. And don't you think sometimes when you're something, you don't realize how hard it is for other people to access those things?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Oh, definitely.
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A
I mean, and I think to the degree in which to which we discredit them or devalue them, we don't even realize how valuable they are when they're, when they come natural to us. But I, I like what you were saying about how a lot of artists have a hard time accessing that side. So if I, if I go talk to a business, I'm going to talk to them about getting loose, getting creative, all that kind of stuff. When I go talk to artists, one way this manifests that is kind of a microcosm of what we're talking about is I'm always trying to get really artsy people to. When they think about creating again, this is another way I think about the pulsing thing in writing circles. It's a. Well, these are well known phrases. It's a plotter or pantser. Have you ever heard these?
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B
No, but I love the word pantser. It's awesome.
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A
It's good. I love it. And so a plotter is someone who outlines the book and plots everything out before they start. And then a pantser is someone who flies by the seat of their pants and they just start and write to the end. And my argument is that if you're gonna make a career of this, then I think it's ideal to have some familiarity and comfort with both sides and have a pulse of these things. If you aren't trying to create a career, the most artistic thing you might be able to do, especially if you're talented, is just pants. I think that's true. That's a whole other conversation because then I'm going to get into like the unconscious and symbolism and how if you can access that part of yourself, some of the most brilliant things that have ever been made are more like, we can't explain what this is, but it's like making me cry like that. I love all this stuff, but. And I think some of that is able to be accessed as a career creative. But if you're going to be a career creative, you have to have a little bit more access to craft. You have to be able to. I love what Christoph Niemann, who is a famous editorial illustrator, did a talk about how as a professional artist, you'll never be able to be great on command. That'll happen, but it won't be on in your time frame or timetable and it won't be under your control. But you have to be able to be good on purpose. You have to be good every time. Right. And so as a career creative, I'm always Trying to get really creative people to be comfortable with plotting, not just pantsing. Most creative people, not all of them, but most creative people start in a place of pantsing their way, you know, doing talks and just winging it. And you know, they. It's very comfortable and sometimes it yields incredible results so that it's very addictive to keep. And then once you introduce like this idea of plotting, which I'm talking about it through the lens of creativity or writing. But it's the same as strategy. You know, for me, I'm trying to get creative people to embrace there isn't just one type of creativity. I think a lot of people think it's pantsing is what it means to be creative.
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B
I do think that. They really do.
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A
Yeah, they do. And it another way I talk about it is exploratory creativity. And so that kind of creativity, the definition of that is I'm starting and I don't know where it's going to go. So I've heard John Mayer call that Ouija board creativity where like the pencil has a mind of its own. Where's it going? That is a type of creativity. It's the exploratory pants and creativity. And it's. I think it's, it is really pure, it is really valuable. However, it is a creative act to solve a puzzle. And that's the strategy. Plotting side. And strategy is the opposite. Exploratory is you start and you don't know where it's going to end up. Strategy is you start with the end in mind. You start with the end and then you work backwards. And one of my favorite examples to be like this is how I can prove that you agree with this no matter who you are. Is millennials all watch Lost. We would have loved for them to start with the end in mind. Why didn't you know where it was going? So we already give it. It's a given. We know, we want to a degree a professional to have an idea of where this is going.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But actually think you can. And my favorite example of doing both of these things is Curb youb Enthusiasm is a great example of this pulsing where they have a plot, they have a three act structure, they know where a scene has to end when they start it, but they don't know how they're going to get there because it doesn't have a script. So it's an improv scene towards a goal. So it's a very. That's why I think it's so great. And so it's been such A huge success. I don't think. It's just that. I think also Larry's just hilarious and there's some amazing actors in there. But that I do think that's really key is that they found this way of pulsing between these two energies. And for the non creative or people that would identify as non creative or businessy people, I would try to get them to access that pantsing energy because it's scary or the creative that is. You know, I probably started much more of a pantser then as I became a career creative, I was more like you where I was like, now I'm having a harder time playing and you know, accessing that side of myself. But for those people, I'm trying to get them to pants. How can you just let yourself not know what's going to happen and give yourself space for that? And then for creative people it's weird. I'm never trying to get them to be creative. Most creative people are too creative. They have too many ideas, too much generative stuff. And I'm like, can we just, just. Because I remember the first time when I started getting into storytelling ten plus years ago and trying to make my way over to picture books. Any like story structure, formula, anything like that I was so allergic to, yeah, I rejected it. And the reason is I didn't, I couldn't have said this at the time but I know the reason was, was because of, of insecurity. I thought I'm not going to figure this out, I'm not going to be able to do this kind of creativity. And so there's so much of my work with creative people where I'm trying to get them to experiment with, trying to have a punchline, trying to have a strategy, trying to have a goal and then working backwards and it's insane. Like you might not get there, but interesting things might happen because of that.
- [10:52]
B
And you know, whenever I'm talking to creatives because I'm, I'm the same way mostly who I work with in the, in the non art side of my business where I'm just helping artists kind of cultivate their career. I meet people and they've been creating art their own whole life or they just love, you know, they love to dabble and explore and you know, when I'm like we're going to focus on building a portfolio of art if what you want is to license your art, which is like renting your art to the companies and they immediately are like, well, I want this but I really don't want to do it. This way, I want to just make whatever I want. Yeah. And I. There's. And there's nothing wrong with lots of mediums, Stacy. And I'm like, there is nothing wrong with it, but you got to start with the end of mind. So if you imagine that you want to create the kind of art that's going to end up, you know, on children's decor, you actually have to create that art. And you have to create it intentionally. And you have to not just draw the monkey. You have to imagine where that monkey is going to live. Is it going to live on, like, a floor mat? Is it going to be on a piece of wall art? And you have to adapt that art for where it's going to end up. And so design with the end of mind. And then people are like, ah, structure, rigid. I hate this. And the worst example is I do this thing where I give people creative design briefs and I'm trying to get people out of their comfort zone and designing for other things. So, yeah, one of the briefs, I said nursery. I started out doing nursery art, which is why I bring it up. I always have everyone do a nursery decor brief. I don't care what your medium is. And the amount of emails I got from students who felt assaulted by this, literally, like, I don't like children. I don't. You cannot make me do this. And I'm like, okay, then don't do it. But it's not about designing for children. It's about getting you used to doing something that you feel you said allergic to. Because to be a career artist, there are going to be things that, if you want this, if you want to create income consistently, it's not just about, as you said, the pantsing. Right. You can pants. I'm going to use. I love this. Now. You can do that. But you also have to be able to know what it means to work professionally and hit deadlines and adapt. When artists are like, I will not change my colors for anybody, okay. Sometimes you're going to find clients that you can work with or you make your own brand. Like I have at Gingerbread, where I can do whatever I want with our art and we attract a specific customer who likes that. But being able to adapt does not make you any less of a creative. It's just going to help you. I think if the goal is financial security, that's not like betraying yourself. And that brings me to, like, back to the authenticity point, because the argument always comes back to authenticity. But, like, I think you're just using that word Authenticity to avoid the thing you're scared of or that's uncomfortable. You said that it was hard for you to plot out traditional, like, storylines the way that you're given advice. For me, I always said I would never be a teacher, and now I do a lot of teaching. And it's because, first of all, younger me was very impatient, and younger me wanted to just be able to work in isolation and not have to talk to people and do things my way. And so teaching requires patience, and teaching also requires, like, lesson plans. And I didn't like any of those things. Like, I liked this area where I just got to create what I wanted. And, you know, but then I was good at it, and then people wanted to learn how to do these things that I did. So I accidentally became a teacher, and now I had to make peace. Like, my team knows if you need Stacy to write curriculum, you're going to need to give me, like, a really, really long time. And just know I won't start it until the day before you need it, but you need to tell me six months in advance and don't check in with me. But I will get it done. Yeah, but I'm not going to teach you how to do what I do because it's really. But I get it done. I always get it done. So, I don't know, I just. It's uncomfortable. But I still have to do it in order to help people the most. And I get better at it. The more I do it, I'm slower at getting better at it than I am. Other things. Some things come a lot easier to me. But, you know, my life is so much better because I faced the thing that I was the most afraid of. But you know what I think? How about this? The first time you do something, you kind of are, like, just winging it, like, yeah. The best things I've ever done are the things I've responded to and didn't overthink. So my first course I ever taught Andy was not like, I'm okay being not really great at something in front of people. I'm okay being, like, an amateur at something. I can be super good and then introduce not being good at something. So I had this career being really successful licensed artist, selling products, wholesaling. And in my first course, I filmed on my iPad. I didn't have a microphone that worked properly. I propped my iPad up on some books. It was during COVID 19. I did the class from my bed in my pajamas. Most of the time. It was really poorly edited. My eyes were like this the whole time I'm talking because I didn't have a teleprompter and I did it and I charged for it. People bought it. And then the next time I did it, I was able to do it better. But if I had overthought that process, that course never would have existed. And so I guess I had to, like, pants my way into it and wing it. And now I can do more of the plotting work and it's better.
- [15:58]
A
Yeah, I love what you're saying, and I think you're totally right. You know, when I was rejecting storytelling structure and all that. Now that stuff is my obsession. Like, I'm so obsessed with it, and I think it's so useful and interesting. But I needed to also just write books and try things and. And I need to do that same time. So I do think it's not that you have to accept the being a plotter and go to school and learn everything before you touch any of the materials on that. I think that's not true. But I will say to people that struggle with the plotting, I'll give you three things, and they all start with C on accident. The third one, though, hopefully I remember it because the way I wrote it down as a note and I can't read it, so. So we'll see it. That'll be the surprise if we get to it. But the first one is if you just completely reject the idea of having to start with the end doing a brief, anything like that. There's nothing wrong with that. I think you should question whether you want to make this a career. So that's the first C is career creative. I think you have to have some ability to have. It's not even ability. It's just a willingness to experiment with it. I'm kind of convinced that if creatives got familiar with what it feels like to problem solve as a creator, that they would like elements of it. Not everyone's going to maybe go as hard as you and I are on that direction, but I would have never guessed. I'm the most chaotic creative person in my 20s. Like all through my 20s, I never would have guessed that I would be the person that was hardcore on business strategy and story structure and all that stuff. So I'm really convinced that it's at least a season that you should spend open to these things and test them and do these things that you're afraid of. But if you're not willing to do that, I would say there's nothing wrong with it. But just realize that making this a career might not be for you because there's so much about you. You need access to that side of the brain. And then the second one was, this is one I tell a lot of people and it works for me. I tell myself this all the time. Is that like you said, we're gonna focus on creating this portfolio project right now. We're gonna spend. So when it comes to my fall and spring, I'm gonna spend this whole fall thinking about this book project, and I'm gonna be working on that book project. And when it comes around spring, I might be doing this, you know, really intense podcast series or whatever it is. And the way I can get myself to do that is saying everything else is not going in the trash can. This is the second c. It's going in the crock pot. Okay? This cr. The creative crock pot has saved me so many times. There were years where, you know, I started the podcast for a whole bunch of reasons. Primarily, I'm obsessed with helping creative people. Too much, too much. Like, when I see creative people struggling on stuff, I'm caught. My brain starts problem solving, da da da da da da. And I start thinking I have to not tell them that because it's rude to give unsolicited advice. I just am wired that way. And so that's the reason I chose to do the pod, the type of podcast that I made. But part of the reason I got into podcasting was I was first blogging. And part of blogging was reading about if you want to get into publishing, you need to have some kind of platform or you're likely not going to be letting the door. And so I started building that over time. And then so as I'm starting my podcast, I'm also pitching picture books and trying to break in there. The podcast starts taking off and the picture books I like could not get my foot in the door. And so two years in, I was exhausted from doing these two self initiated things with all of my free time outside of my client work and all the other things I was doing. And eventually I was like, okay, I can't throw picture books in the trash because I feel like this is a really good fit for me and it's something I really want to do, but I am going to have to put them in the crock pot. I'm going to have to focus on the podcast for a couple years outside of all the professional stuff I'm doing. And then I did that. The podcast took off and that helped me get the picture book Deals. And so the same thing is true now. Like, I've had to put the podcast more on the back burner. I wouldn't say it's crock pot. I'm still pretty active in it, but now a lot of picture book stuff is taking off and that's on the front burner. And I have to put other things in the crock pot. Right. And so the crock pot idea as a mental framework has been so essential to me because just like all creative people, I think there's almost like this is me being like kind of mystical about it, but I think there's something about creative people that have such a weird relationship to time. So if I know something's right, it feels like it should be right now. And so there's something about letting go of it that feels like I'm throwing that into the trash forever. And it's just been really good to be like, no, it's important. Like if I. This is a thing from the book. I think it's from the book, the one thing. And it's about like, if you take a step in 10 different directions, you might get somewhere interesting in 10 years. But if you take 10 steps in one direction, you might get somewhere interesting in one year. And once you're somewhere interesting now you have more resources. The podcast could take off because I was already a full time illustrator, I already had a network and so then it kind of compounds, right?
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B
Yeah.
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A
So that's the second one. The third one, I honestly can't read it. So it's going to remain a mystery.
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B
We have two things. Two season. The next time you come back, we'll talk about the third one. How's that sound? And you figure it out. Well, you know what's interesting, because I've never done picture books, but. But when I was doing nursery art, everyone told me, you gotta get into picture books. So I became obsessed with it for like two and a half years. And I mean, I tried to create my own, you know, books I pitched to literary agents. I did everything I could and it actually seemed perfect because like, I'd actually made this big career. I'd been named like one of the top, like nursery decor artists at that time and different platforms. And, you know, I had a good thing going and I was licensing with other companies. I could not make it happen. It felt like I was beating my head into the wall. So I remember whenever I like symbolically surrendered, it was like, you know, a little dramatic in my head. Like it. I do the same thing, you know, it's like, it's. It didn't feel like a crock pot moment. Okay. It just really felt like putting in the trash. I'm like, this is obviously not meant for me. And, you know, I just, I. I gave up is what I'd say. And I started moving in a different direction, which was just create a different type of art, more like me, I'm kind of an all or nothing person. And whenever, when the door closed, I was like, this is done. And so I'm like, you know, starting to create different types of art and I'm just like throwing myself into other things. And long story short, I ended up getting a book deal, but not for picture books. And it came accidentally. And it came because on, like, Instagram, I had been like, I really want to create a book, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then randomly, a literary agent I've been talking to for something else entirely. Like, I popped into their head, they said, and they emailed me that day, but they'd never seen the Instagram post and like, let's make a book together. So we made this, like, coffee table book. My illustrations are in it, and some of my words, closest thing to a picture book I've done. But what was weird is the day she emailed me two of those children's book literary agents also emailed me that I talked. I'd emailed like a year and a half prior. It was this kismet thing. And I think there's. I don't, you know, I don't know what to make of that. But what happens whenever you're like, it's not now it's done. Another door opens. The right door, maybe. But coincidentally, like, all of a sudden, everyone wants to be in the Stacy Bloomfield book business all at the same time. And I, obviously then I had to be like, no, actually I'm not going to pursue these things that I said I used to want because this is the right path for me. It's always felt that mystical thing for me, and I can't put my finger on it, but I've had these moments in my life where this happens. And I don't know how to explain what it feels like, but it feels like something like locking into place. And like, when it's all. When. When I'm doing things in the right direction, all of a sudden I'm like a magnet for opportunity. I don't know what. What about that as wrap up?
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A
Yeah, I'm going to say I'm writing something down that I can read.
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B
Okay.
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A
I'm going to come back to that in one second because I think it's a good way to think about this. I'll start by saying this because I made a show for creative people. There's actually several reasons why I did this, but one of the main reasons why because I was making a show for creative people. And like I said earlier, when I talk to creative people I'm usually trying to get them to embrace some things that maybe seem uncomfortable or scary, but actually I think they're really suited for. And so if I was making a show about creativity for business people, I might approach it completely differently. But one of the ways that that's manifested with the show is from the beginning I said I'm not going to make a spiritual show. It's not going to be mystical. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying that there is. For example, Julia Cameron, a lot of her stuff, a lot of Rick Rubin stuff. There's a lot of mysticism in all of that. I'm actually like that. I'm not saying anything wrong with it. I just don't feel like that's my role. What I'm trying to achieve. The reason I actively chose to pursue a path that was non mystical and was quite logical. Not because those things are important, but because I think creative people are predisposed to over index on that direction. And I found that even though that spiritual side of myself is a center, it's an important part of me and my relationship to creativity. I find if I go too far, if I'm imbalanced, it can wreak a lot of havoc on my ability to achieve anything or be strategic or I end up getting rid of a lot of my agency to accomplish things because I think, well, if it's right, it'll just happen. It'll just fall in my lap. Right. I'm giving you a huge disclaimer to say the way you described it is pretty much exactly how I think and experience things. So I have again, so this is kind of like I'm trying to be non judgmental on it, good or bad or right or wrong. But I have the exact same sense of am I on the path or am I not? I can't divorce myself from that way of thinking. It's just the way I experience life and when I feel like locked into it, things feel like they're flowing and it's working and all that. I could be skeptical about that. To say that sometimes when things are working it's making me feel like I'm on The path, like, maybe it's a chicken or an egg thing. I like to just be a little bit skeptical, even though I live my life as a kind of mystical artist type. But I wrote down another piece to what I. How they think that works is I'm a huge believer that everybody should have a main band and a sideband, and not actually as a musician, but metaphorically, and that those things can change. Your sideband can become your main band, your main band can become your side band, and you can create other side bands and whatever. And the reason is, is because that description that you had about letting go for good, I am convinced that maybe there's something mystical about it, but definitely there's something neurological happening where. When I was super invested in the podcast and then I started to experiment with picture books, but I was my career with between clients and podcasting and talks and everything, I no longer. I didn't need picture books. There was something about that looseness that got my best work ever. And then as I started doubling down on my main band being picture books, all of a sudden the podcast starts freeing up to be better and flowing. My favorite example of this is. I always say, I have no business saying this, so I'm just going to say it's arrogant, dumb thing to say, but I'm going to say it anyway. I always wish that I could tell Ben Gibbard, who is the singer of Death Cab for Cutie. I'm always like, dude, keep making side bands, man. Like in he. Because he'll talk about this. I think it was 2004, he came out with the album with his sideband Postal Service, and his biggest Death Cab for Cutie album the same year. He says that these are the best albums he ever made, and he's kind of made peace with that. Maybe that is a higher way. Look, Ben, you know more than me. Maybe. Maybe it's good that you're just like, okay, I made this great stuff, and that was my moment. Fine. That's fine that you do you. But I can't help but feel like saying, what if you just kept making sidebands? What if you just kept making those projects where it's like, well, there's no pressure on this because I have this. And then you go over here and you're like, well, there's no pressure on this because I have that I think you have to have. And again, it comes back to this kind of pulsing thing. I think you have to have that ability to kind of, okay, I got to get serious because this is My main band. And then, oh, I gotta really play. Cause it's my sideband. And just let that kind of flow that way. Because there is something magical that happens when you're able to. And it's annoying because, yes, you can trick yourself into that. You can trick yourself into that state by the sideband, made band, whatever. But I can't just do it on command, right? I can't just be like, oh, this is my main band. But I'm gonna pretend like. I'm just gonna pretend like it's my sideband. I can't do that. So it's like, you know, when everything relied on client work, there'd be so much pressure to get it right. And I'd never do my best work doing client work. Then once my personal work ended up taking off, then I felt so much more pressure to do personal work. And then I'd be making stuff for clients. I'd be like, damn it, why am I not making this for my shop? This is better than the stuff I'm making. And so I'm just aware of that dynamic and try to make peace with those are going to ebb and flow. But you need both of them.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Oh, my gosh. I could talk to you for a whole probably day about all of this because, you know, these are the experiences that you have. But the truth is, I don't think you get to have these experience experiences unless you, like, actually take a step.
- [30:30]
A
You're so right.
- [30:31]
B
Any direction. Yes. And, you know, I think the first step is so hard for the creatives. And we say the problem is, you know, authenticity. And we say the problem is, you know, skill and talent. But really it's just taking a step in any direction, doing things, being a part of it. Playing that in and of itself means you're starting. And it's not like starting means you have a store or starting means the book is published. Starting happens years and years prior and letting yourself even think about today. I'm going to wake up and I'm going to paint this mural like I did like, a few months ago. I had no business doing it, and I'm busy. And I'm like, I'm just going to wake up and do this. And it took me longer than I thought. But by doing it, I had the best time I ever have. I had all these other ideas. Flow came to me. This was my sideband for a hot minute. And from it has come all these other things. So that's why I tell people, as we wrap up, like career artists, yeah. If you start immediately thinking, I have to succeed being a career artist and monetize and it's everything or else you won't be able to get there. And I love. And I. I actually have a book coming out called the Artist side Hustle and I address it at the very beginning. It's not about hustling and people hate that, but it's a good title. Get people to look at it.
- [31:46]
A
Yeah.
- [31:47]
B
If you put all the pressure on yourself immediately to go from zero to a hundred, it won't work. But if you have other things that are happening in your life, let's say you have a full time job and you're dabbling on the or you're a full time caretaker or mother and this is the thing you're just doing like for your own pleasure. Create a little income. That's actually a better environment to flourish and grow. I agree.
- [32:07]
A
100.
- [32:08]
B
And I just want to encourage people. There's no one path. It's just letting yourself even try and explore. Have the main band and the side band. And that's a good thing. That's a really, really good thing. In fact, you'll probably be happier than a lot of people who are doing it full time because that pressure mounts. And Andy, this has been a fantastic talk. Thank you so much for joining me here. Is there anything you want to share as we wrap up?
- [32:32]
A
I'll just say I completely agree with you. I had the same experience when I was starting out. I tried to put all the pressure on it failed, had to get a job. And that job was the best thing that ever happened to my creativity because all of a sudden I could make just for me and light. So I think that's completely accurate and great. I just want to say if anybody wants to check out any of my stuff, probably the best place to do it is creative pep talk podcast. But this has been great, Stacy, as a super energizing conversation and I was glad to chat with you.
- [33:02]
B
I was so glad to chat with you too. Thank you so much and have a great rest of your day. And everybody, thanks for listening to the Art plus audience podcast. Go check out Andy's 500 episodes plus of podcasts at this point and just, you know, take some pressure off.
- [33:15]
A
Stay pepped up.
- [33:16]
B
Woo. All right, talk to you later. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you subscribe to this podcast and then share it with one of your best art friends? I'd really appreciate it. And then head on over to Instagram and follow me at the leverage your art account and you can keep up with all of our future episodes. Thank you so much for your support. It means everything to have you here here listening and learning. Bye.
- [33:47]
A
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