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- [00:03]
A
This is the Art of Dental Finance and Management Podcast brought to you by Art Wiederman, CPA with Ide Bailey. Whether it's taxes and investing or planning wisely, Art is the expert to make your dental practice profitable at IDE Bailey. What inspires you inspires us. We provide a suite of accounting and advisory services dedicated to the total care of your practice. Visit our website to access our tools and resources. Tailored for dentists idebailey.com dentist that's E I-E B A I L L-Y.com dentist this podcast is distributed with the understanding that Art Wiederman, CPA and Ide Bailey LLP are not rendering legal, accounting or other professional advice. Listeners should consult with their business advisors before acting on any of the information or opinions shared. If you have questions and or feedback, make sure to email our over@awiedermandebailey.com that's a W I E D E R M a n@e I-e b a I l l y.com you can also give Art a call at 657-279-3243. Without further delay, here's your host dental CPA Art Wiederman.
- [01:19]
B
And hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Art of Dental Finance and Management podcast with Art Wiederman, cpa. I'm your host, Art Wiederman. I am a proud dental division director at the CPA firm of Ideal all over the Western United States, but I am housed out of Southern California and right now, what do they say it never rains in Southern California? Well, they lie because it is. We're recording this middle of November and it is, it's starting to come down pretty good. But we always need that rain. But fortunately we're inside today and uh, we're going to save you some money today. That should perk your ears up. Today is our year end tax planning podcast which we've done every year now for seven years. December 3rd is seven years that we've done this podcast and I couldn't be happier to have my two really good friends from Hyde Bailey, Don Watson from our Tustin, California office and Scott Haberman from our Fort Collins, Colorado office. Our two two of our partners that specialize in doing nothing but working with dentists. So we're going to talk about how to save you Money, how the one big beautiful bill act has affected dentists for 25 and 26. Unfortunately, this should be about a four hour podcast, but we're not going to keep you that long. But Don and Scott are as good as it gets as far as staying on top of all and everything dental. So we'll get to them in a minute. First, I want to thank my wonderful partners Lorraine Kent and Decisions in Dentistry magazine. 140 Continuing education classes at a very reasonable cost. Go to www.decisionsindentistry.com Again, we're going to be talking about this today. If you haven't gotten a call from your CPA or tax advisor, doctor who want and they've said we need to sit down and figure out where you're at and ways we can save you money. That's what we're talking about today and that's what you can do here at ide. We are available and we'll let Scott and Don give you out their contact information as part of the show. But, but do, do please listen to this because we are going to save you money today. I want to tell you also that for those of you in Southern California, February 28th at Dave and Buster's in the city of Orange, if you are a potential buyer or a potential seller of a dental practice, we're going to be doing a full day live complimentary free dental transition seminar local sponsored by our three of our wonderful local dental societies. And we have a dental attorney, dental consultant, marketing company, financial planner, investment advisor. We got, we got all the pieces that you need to know. Please email me at awiedermandbailey.com or call me 657-279-3243 if you want to be part of that. If you like the cold weather and you're going to be at the Chicago Midwinter meeting, I will be speaking at the Chicago Midwinter meeting. I'm doing two courses, one on metrics and one on financial planning. Please come. If you're a podcast listener, come in, say hi, tell me you listen to podcasts. It always warms my heart to talk to doctors, which I do all the time all over the country.
- [04:57]
A
About that, be sure to check out our new I Bailey podcast, Ebb and Flow, a business podcast providing inspired insight on issues and trends the middle market faces hear unique business stories, get answers to frequently asked and unasked questions, and understand business topics that matter to available now on your favorite podcast platform.
- [05:20]
B
All right, well, let's get to my two good friends, Mr. Watson and Mr. Haberman. How are you doing, gentlemen?
- [05:28]
C
Good afternoon, Art. How you be?
- [05:31]
B
I be good. I see. And so we have it is the middle of football season and Mr. Watson, I can see you have a bunch of secs and a bunch of A's in your background. And I know the A's are not for Art, but I believe they are.
- [05:50]
C
And they're not for Auburn either.
- [05:51]
B
And they're not for Auburn. I believe Roll Tide is what your team is. And Mr. Scott, you are from a different team, right?
- [06:00]
D
My poor Washington Huskies have had a roller coaster of a season. Yes, but we, we are in year two of Big Ten and we're having a good season. But I, I wish we were in the same hunt that the Don was in right now with the College Football Playoff.
- [06:18]
B
My long term partner and dear friend Pam Chamberlain, who just retired from public accounting in April. She's an Oklahoma person and she continues to remind me how my team, the University of Southern California Trojans, took their coach. So I guess it's kind of maybe they have an nil portal for coaches and stuff. But so I'm going to let you guys, before we get into the subject, talk a little bit about yourselves and what you guys do at I Bailey. So Don, Don, you're a partner in our Tustin office, our head of dental practices. Talk a little bit about your journey in public accounting and your career and how you got to be where you are today.
- [06:57]
C
Sure thing. Thanks Art. Appreciate being here another year. You're in tax plan discussion. But yeah, so I started out my career 30 plus years ago in West Virginia. So as much as I root for Alabama where I was born, I'm actually a Marshall University grad Go Herd. So so yeah, everything I either have around the house or wear is typically Marshall green or Alabama red. But I started out as a generalist, had a number of different kinds of clients and went through a firm there where I became partner after a period of time about 10 years ago. Decided to change my my lifestyle and my wife and I decided we wanted some sun and be near the coast so we moved out here to California. Now Art said not so much today is why we came out here but there are many days in the middle of the winter that are nice to be outside in short sleeves and shorts. But after being here for about 10 years or a few years, I met met you Art, and you had been an icon in this space for a long time. Talked about how you were looking to move your your career a little different direction and needed some help. So yeah, working together you've taught me a lot about being a dental cpa. Got to meet a lot of great clients of yours and referral sources over the past eight years and it's been a been a good run so that's exactly where I'm at today is I run a team of five, six here in our dental division and 95% of my day is working with the great dentists of mainly Southern California, but do have others throughout the country as well.
- [08:30]
B
So from now on you will be referring to me as the icon instead of art, right?
- [08:35]
C
I think I probably should. I'll humble myself.
- [08:39]
B
You should. Yeah.
- [08:40]
D
That's a better, that's a better name that he uses with me or when you're not in a room.
- [08:45]
C
Yeah.
- [08:46]
B
As he was. Emoji. Vomit emoji. Vomit emoji. I understand. Scott, you are a partner in our Fort Collins, Colorado office. Tell us a little bit about your journey.
- [08:55]
D
I am, yeah. So I'm actually from Seattle, Washington and went to University of Washington, Washington for undergrad and in graduate school in accounting. Go Huskies. And spent the first 10 years of my career out there. Life was calling to get somewhere sunnier. I didn't go to California, but I came to sunny Colorado, which it is 73 degrees and sunny right now on November 14th. So we're in pretty good shape. Spent the last 10 years here and in that transition started focusing on dental practices. So scaling high growth dental groups by some entrepreneurial folks that I got plugged in with and started working with their consultants and their attorneys and their other advisors and saw a need that wasn't really addressed in the industry at that time. So I jumped on board and started serving these clients with all, all of my time and all my heart. And I helped lead the dental industry group from, from, from Fort Collins with, with, with Don Watson for our firm. So we, we do a lot for our docs. We're not just pumping out tax returns, but we have a lot of discussions with our clients about selling, buying, acquisitions and de novos, anything in between. We're, we're at the heart and center.
- [10:22]
B
Of our clients business and talking about Scott, having discussions. We were talking before I pushed the record button here. We, I was fortunate to help form a group called the academy of dental CPAs which is 2025 CPA firms across the United States that represent over 12,000 dentists. And it's been an amazing one. We're going to actually celebrate our 25th anniversary next year because we formed in 2001 and we just, the three of us were just in Nashville, Tennessee at our meeting. We meet twice a year at different locations. Each time a firm is chosen to sponsor and organize the meeting. And I will tell you guys, one of the speakers, we had great speakers Consultants and, you know, bankers and, and all kinds. But one of the speakers really stood out to me was a gentleman who ran a cybersecurity company. And you know, a lot of times we're sitting in the meeting and we're checking emails and maybe looking up something and maybe the speaker isn't super interesting. Maybe it is. It's like the conferences doctors you go to. This particular speaker ran a cyber, runs a cyber security company. I have never seen the room so quiet and everybody so attentive. And I want to just briefly, before we get into tax planning, bring up and, and Scott, we chat about this a little bit before doctors. If you just have an IT person and you think you're covered for cyber issues, as Lee Corso on College Game Day says, not so fast, Scott. You, you've been talking to some clients. Let's chat about that for a minute. About cyber security issues.
- [12:11]
D
Yeah. So maybe give you chain of events how this kind progressed with, with, with me and suggesting my clients, they need to take a second look at this is. I was on an internal webinar here within our firm and we have a, A, a technology consulting group and one of the arms is actually cybersecurity. So I really didn't think anything of it. But fast forward a week after hearing that webinar, I was in Nashville with you and that friendly hacker who's, how he referred to himself, talked about how an orthopedic group was subject to potential or to hackers taking all patient info, their orthopedic groups, financial info, everything, right? And holding essentially that information hostage and saying, hey, we're going to give this information to news outlets and you're going to be in a world of trouble unless you pay us X amount of dollars. Right. Attorney's fees, investigator fees, all of these fees start adding up. And as we discussed at that meeting, the insurance coverage for these business owners isn't going to cut it. It's not going to cover all the expenses that you're going to have to dole out to recover from this. And so I've been sharing that conversation with a lot of my clients just because I was so taken aback by that discussion that I think all my clients are like, yes, we need to look at penetration testing because I'm not sure if our managed service provider is doing enough. And so it's a good second look at seeing if you're protected. But also talking to your insurance advisor like, hey, what's my coverage for if I get hacked and what's the fine print mean? Am I supposed to have a certain amount of security layers and so forth? I think it's just a new age that we're in right now where, you know, it's not 30 years ago where everything is, is, is, is, is risky. That's coming through the front door, it's also coming through the wires. And you just got to be careful with your practice. So it's a crazy time of, of the world that we're in.
- [14:11]
B
Yeah. So if you guys have it, if we got your attention here and you need some help, we have a, we do have a wonderful, very competent. I had their leader on about six, nine months ago on the podcast. If you have some cybersecurity issues, give us a, give us a call again. We'll give Scott and Don's information out.
- [14:29]
C
Yeah, two things that hit me on top of what Scott said is one of them was a lot of times even if you have the insurance you still have and that fine print could be you've got a certain responsibility to put things in place to prot. So if you don't have the right IT mechanisms there that insurance may amount to not paying a whole bunch of anything. So gotta be careful with that. And then the other thing, on top of all those costs of figuring out what went on, there's potential lawsuits. Those lawsuits could add up to be many dollars on top of all that too. So a lot that can be a lot that can really come down on you. So just keep that in mind. And I always think about how hard our I Bailey internal team keeps us on task of not opening things that come from the outside, not plugging things in our computers where we should not being on WI Fi, you know, in public spaces that might allow people in. We are fortunate to have all of that in house. So it could be very easy for HIPAA and all those other things to be violated quickly if you're not careful. Yep.
- [15:29]
B
All right, let's jump into tax plan. I wanted to point that out because that is a big deal, folks. All right, let's start about the process. Talking about the process of income tax planning for dental practice owners. As the three of us on this call know, it's not just a one time thing that we as dental CPAs do. And it really goes on all year long. So Don, I'm going to start with you. How do you approach tax planning starting in January, ending December, kind of take us through what we do for doctors. Again, I'm not saying this as an advertisement, but this is how everybody should be looking. Taxes is not just call your CPA on March 15, send them your stuff and do your taxes. It's a year long thing. So Don, start the conversation about how do we do tax planning all year long.
- [16:16]
C
Sure. So there's probably about two or three times during the course of the year that we for certain are touching somebody's numbers that might alert us to doing something with regards to taxes. And the two things I always say we're trying to do with taxes are mitigate them, but just bring them down lowest possible amount and there's manage once you get to the lowest possible figure, how do you make sure that you've paid the right amount at the right times, not giving it too early or too late. So when we start off the year, we're looking at salary schedules for many cases. A lot of our doctor Clients are S corporations and because of reasonable compensation being an issue, we want to make sure that the year starts off on the right foot for the owner and maybe any, you know, family members that are in there to have the proper compensation take address the, the withholdings. Federal and state address whatever retirement plan they have in place to get the right amount taken out. So there's nothing worse than trying to do this in December all through an end of year bonus check when maybe the resources aren't there. So we're doing that and we're looking at what we did in the prior month or two from that previous end of year. That kind of gives us an indicator what do we, should we be prepared for in the current year as we go along? We're doing the returns for the company and for the individuals. We're doing that in the spring. So we're seeing changes, we're seeing financials come across our desk for the current year. That gives us another indicator. Should we make a revision to these withholdings and on salary schedule tax estimates and so forth. But one of the biggest places we probably are, you know, getting a good idea of what's going on is going to be now November and December. We reach out to the clients, let them know that this is the seven, eight week run of where we'd like to sit down. Let's go through all the things that have gone on in your tax world during 2025 and we'll crunch the numbers of your business, put your personal together, updated for investment activity, maybe sales of, you know, securities, looking at your rent, look at your other, where your other things are coming in, money coming in and so forth. And let's dial in are we on track or are we not. Because the other thing you hate worse is getting to April and either doing that return or doing an extension and going client, you got to pay 20,000, $30,000. It really is, you know, puts a lot of stress on the situation. So if we can see the writing on the wall, we'd rather do it now than four or five months from now.
- [19:00]
B
Mr. Scott, what do you have to say about the process of year of tax planning throughout the year?
- [19:07]
D
Echoing Don's comments. I like to be with clients at least a few times outside of tax season, if they'll allow me. Some people don't want to talk to me more than a couple of times a year. That's fine, I get it. I don't take it personally. But I like to talk to my clients as much as I can. Just because the better informed we are as your advisors, the more I think efficient advice we can provide. And also not being reactive. Right. Let's be proactive with what you have coming down the pike. So let's talk before you make any kind of large investments, any kind of sales of practices or major changes within your practice. So I like to be at the forefront and so as long as clients allow me into those conversations, we, we can really be their advocate and their advisor. And that's where I prefer to, to be in our clients lives rather than, you know, we can do tax returns just fine, but I think where we can really add value is, is, is in the planning standpoint.
- [20:09]
B
Yep. All right, let's, let's jump into this a little more now. Don, let's talk about year end. Okay. I know that in, in our world. And folks, this is about as much as I'm going to geek out on accounting. Okay? Dental practice owners are on what's called a cash basis of accounting. And what that means is you pay taxes on your collections, not what you produce. Because what you produce doesn't go in the bank account and you deduct expenses that you pay with the exception of credit card charges and things like that. So Don, let's talk about what dentists can do regarding their revenues and, and expenses at the end of the year to, to, to reduce their taxable income and what they can't do.
- [20:50]
C
I think I, I always like just go into your mailbox and whatever you see in your mailbox, throw it in your drawer in the office and then don't touch until January of next year.
- [20:57]
B
Exactly. I start, start like that in August.
- [21:00]
C
Right, Exactly. That is complete sarcasm.
- [21:05]
B
That is sarcasm.
- [21:06]
D
Disregard that.
- [21:07]
C
It's a joke. No I, I know we, we heard that a lot over our 30 year career. For me, that many businesses, and I'm not saying dentists, service based industries, but cash based businesses just feel like if it doesn't hit the bank account, it doesn't exist. You know, in many cases that's not going to be the case for a lot of the businesses that we're talking to. Just because nowadays collections happen electronically from the insurance world. So you're probably not going to have that opportunity. But there are fee for service practices out there and then we also have the, the s corporations that are associates so they're getting their monthly checks from the, from the practices that they perform for and getting those checks and just putting them in a drawer. Not going to the bank is not going to cut it. One of the things that's going to happen there is that the practice that you work for is going to send you a 1099. They cut that check on December 26, you know, to take care of all the compensation for services you provided during December. So you getting that check and just sitting on it is going to conflict and eventually it's going to come to pass that the IRS is going to do their matching program and therefore you're going to see that you didn't report everything that you supposedly were paid. Yeah. So what we'll look at is in a cash basis, you got to use resources, resources being the cash itself. So if you're going to do bonuses, that's something we talk about maybe maximizing where the, your salary for retirement reasons. It could be an extra bit of salary to help out with putting withholding away. It could be using those resources of cash to buy things like supplies, to buy things like equipment. And we'll talk a little bit later about equipment since it's a little bit unique in character of exactly whether it gives you that deduction immediately and what things you need to do to make that happen. Yeah, that's kind of the standpoint we come from. Art is let's figure out what's there because whatever's not done by December 31st, it's very hard to make any impact. The only impacts on top of that are charges on a credit card and maybe the retirement that you can accrue. But outside of that, you got to spend that dollar by December 31st to have an impact.
- [23:29]
B
Okay, that's good information. Scott, I want to jump into marginal income tax rates. Can you explain to our audience how our marginal tax rate system works? I think we call it a progressive tax rate system. For federal taxes and how you, Scott, as a tax planner, look at multiple years to determine deferring, accelerating income and maybe touch on the, the one big beautiful bill act and making the what happened with the rates there? So anyway, you know, talk about kind of how the marginal rates and how you play with those as a tax planner.
- [24:10]
D
Yeah, absolutely. So I think a lot of folks don't completely understand how the tax rates and our, our system work. So it's not, I think a lot of confusion starts when someone says, okay, well, I'm in the 35% tax bracket, so that means all of my income is taxed at 35% federal income tax rates. Well, no, that's not true because like you said, we're in this marginal tax rate system. So there's certain layers of tax, like the first, you know, X amount of dollars you're taxed at 10%. The next layer your tax at 12%. And then 22, 24, 32, 35, 37. So you have these layers. And so that's kind of how the marginal tax rates work. And then what we look at is, okay, what's your total taxable income and then what's your total tax? So you take the total tax divided by the total taxable income and that shakes out to be your effective tax rate. So even though you might be in the, say, 32% tax bracket in that marginal bracket, but your effective rate might be 25% because that's a blend of all the tax more, all the margins that you're in over your taxable account. Okay. So that's kind of how the marginal rate system works. And actually at the end of this year, before OB3, Trump's tax bill that was passed July 4, if that didn't pass, our, our brackets would have, would have sky, not skyrocketed, but would have gone up in 2026 by a few percentage points each. And so folks would have been paying a little bit more tax come 2026, but they've been permanently extended for the time being. There's no expiration date on those currently. Until a new administration comes in office in a few years, they're not going to be permanent anymore. So it gives a little more certainty for our business owners because that bill made permanent a number of provisions where we're not constantly looking at renewing tax laws. So we have that certainty at least for the time being.
- [26:17]
B
Kind of nice if they would just leave them alone for a year or two and let us get used to them. But they seem to change them all the time, that's my. My experience. So. So, Don, you and I go ahead, keep business. I guess that's why we have a job. That's right. So, Don, you and I and Scott work with clients on basically four major areas where we can make a big dent in the doctor's taxes. And we're going to hit those and make this the gist of our, of our conversation today. I want to start off with talking about purchasing of equipment. Can you take us through the rules how a dentist can write off an equipment purchase? In other words, we know that if a doctor writes a check for $4,000 to pay a lab bill, that's a current deduction. Okay. But if they spend 100,000 bucks to buy a CBCT machine, it's treated a little bit differently. So how do the equipment purchase rules work off? I know we had some changes in bonus depreciation from. I've never heard OB3. What you call it, Scott? OB3 sounds like a Star wars deal.
- [27:20]
D
It's a Star wars acronym.
- [27:22]
B
I call it Obbba. But anyway, signed by the President on July 4th. So talk about the license, service, how it works, basis, all that kind of stuff.
- [27:33]
C
Sure thing. So getting equipment is a little bit different than, as Art said, whether you're buying supplies through Amazon or Walmart, where it's something that you pay for and you got right there and it's in your possession and likely to being used or had been used, equipment has a little different qualifications. So, you know, using Art's example of either a CBCT or a Sarah, you decide at the end of the year through our conversations or with your own CPA of I want to bring my taxes down. So equipment's one of those places you told me about or my accountant told me about. So I want to go out there and get a 80,000, $120,000 piece of machinery to have the right to deduct it. Since it's not a business expense, it's a fixed asset. It's not based upon acquisition date. It's based upon what's called placed in service. So whether you've placed an order of a Shine or Patterson, whether Shine, Patterson actually delivered it before the end of the year, all those things aren't what is critical. It's critical about placed in service, which means it's been taken out of the box, put into your practice, plugged in and being used. So that chair, the X ray machine, the Cerec, it's being used as of December 31st. That's what's going to drive meeting the placed in service rules, presuming qualified for that. The next step is how do I get my deduction? And there's two big areas that most have heard about from a deduction standpoint and one is bonus depreciation and the other is section 179. Previously in 2025, you were facing a 40% bonus depreciation deduction. You still got regular depreciation on top of that. But it wasn't as charged up as what we were used to for the past 10, 15 years. It was being phased down because it was one of those sunsetting sort of provisions. So you can make the decision now that if you've purchased that piece of equipment after January 19th of this year, which I always thought was an odd date, and come to find out that was I think when the Ways and Committee, Ways and Means Committee passed it. That's why they retroactively did it, even though the bill was passed in total July 4th. But now you can take 100% depreciation under the bonus rules. And if for some reason another mechanism made sense like the Section 179 rules, but that usually takes a back seat to bonus because bonus has other features about it that make it more attractive. Then you could take it in total 100% deductibility in 2025. But yeah, a lot of times we find that that's a great, great way to knock down the tax bill, assuming you can get the order and get it, get it shipped to you and ready to go and on the floor for work and use.
- [30:35]
B
And the important thing, folks, to point out if you operate as a sole proprietor, a partnership, a PLLC, something like that, which we in California cannot be PLLC we have. That's why 99% of our clients are S Corps in California. Rest of the country is not that way. Is just. The only thing I'm going to tell you is when you, if you go to your cpa, do you have S Corporation basis. You don't want to go on December 28th and buy $100,000 piece of equipment. If you're an S Corp, go to the bank, get a loan. You will not have basis and you will not be a happy camper even if the equipment rep tells you it's deductible. Now, we've never heard an equipment rep say, oh yeah, yeah, as long as you make the first payment. So check, check with us on that. Let's quickly, as quickly as you can. Buying an automobile. Don and Scott, feel free to chime in on this too, we can either buy an automobile that's more or less than £6,000, right?
- [31:35]
C
That's true, yeah. Between everything that's out these days, sedans and SUVs and pickup trucks and all the such, you know, the rules of depreciation seem to have a number of different, you know, forks in the road of exactly where you can take your deduction. So under £6,000 in many cases. Consider a luxury automobile. You may not think of it being luxury and only Mercedes are luxury or BMW is luxury, but it could still be a 4,500 pound car that's a Chevy Malibu. And yes, it's going to be considered luxury, but it has limitations on what you can deduct in year one. So you can't go out and spend $40,000, 80% of its business, and all of a sudden you have a $32,000 deduction. It has caps to it, but you can escape that when you start looking at the weights of the vehicle. And that will give you a supercharge to what you can deduct. But again, because of all the different elements out there, you probably want to talk through that with your accountant, cpa, just to make sure that you're not getting something that maybe you're unsure of the weight or you're unsure of where that fits into the tax law. Exactly.
- [32:45]
B
Jump in. I want you to touch on how do we decide what percentage of the car we write off and how many cars do we have in the practice? One for every day of the week, right?
- [32:56]
D
That's right. As many as the bank will finance, Right?
- [33:00]
B
Exactly.
- [33:02]
D
That's the advice I typically recommend. No, it's all, it's all facts and circumstances. Right. So I think it just depends on potentially how many practices do you own? You know, where are you driving between these practices? Is it a company van? Is there, how many vehicles are in there? It's all facts and circumstances. Would I recommend my clients to keep track of. Keep a log, all right? A log is very important. If you ever got looked at and IRS auditor said, hey, I need to see your log of your mileage, your business mileage. Well, here it is and case closed, right? But I think nine times out of 10, most folks are so busy, I don't blame them that you're not typically keeping a log. But generally I always say, you know, keeping a log, number one. Number two, you know, is it a true business vehicle or are you running around picking up your kids, dropping them off to soccer practice? That's always a factor to consider. But you know, to really take advantage of these accelerated depreciation methods, it has to be primarily for business use. I believe it's, is it the 80 threshold? And if it drops below 50, you potentially have some recapture down the road. Yeah, some income recapture. And so we gotta be careful there and just keeping those records. But again, as long as you're substantiating your business use, it ain't just. I don't, I don't think there's a, there's not a count of number of cars you can have in your practice. But like Don said, there's that 6,000 pound threshold where it's over that amount. You can claim 100% bonus depreciation on those vehicles. Section 179, you're actually limited over 6,000 pounds. And so I think a lot of folks get confused about. All right, section 179 is the same thing as bonus. No, they're two separate areas of tax code and there's, there's different limitations. And states may accept some accelerated depreciation under 179, but not bonus or even the other way around. So it always depends on the state you're in of what depreciation method you want, you want to take advantage of. And along those same lines with basis art, I had the same conversation last night with a client. He's considering an audi that's over £6,000. It sounds like a pretty nice car. Apparently the same engine as some Lamborghinis. And so I might even look into that car myself. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I have that.
- [35:21]
B
I should have become an accountant when I got out of it.
- [35:23]
C
That sounds like the RQ RSQ8. Probably.
- [35:26]
D
I think that's, that's the car. So, so I asked him after I wanted to confirm if that qualifies for bonus. And so I looked into that. But then I also asked the question, okay, well, are you financing it with a bank loan or are you going to purchase it with cash? Because like you said, there's potential areas with S Corp basis where you might be allowed that bonus depreciation and that's going to be deductible on the business return. But do you have enough basis for that loss to flow out to you individually? So there's a lot of different hoops you got to jump through. So just having those conversations with your CPA and advisor are pretty important.
- [36:09]
C
Two things I would add on to that too is the, you know, a lot of times, and I've had this conversation this week and you probably get this a lot, Scott. The misconception of what is business mileage. Many think that when I drive to the office and drive home, that's business mileage. Unfortunately, the IRS doesn't view it that way because all of us got to get to our first place of work. Now, if you have multiple offices, you're going to the lab cross town, you're going, you know, some other medical spaces, you maybe have to go to the hospital and do patient rounds. Those things can be considered business miles, but not your initial leave of home. Going to the office and back and then on the number of vehicles. Yeah, it's tough. Some of our clients really love their cars. But it'd be a hard defense with the IRS if you were showing a fixed asset schedule with three vehicles and you're an only owner. Maybe you can get by with a car, too, if you're paying your spouse through there and your spouse is maybe doing some administrative duties, things like that, even if it's just for the purpose of having wages for retirement. Still probably defendable with your car and her car. But, yeah, when you start getting to the kids cars and whatnot. Yeah, it makes. It makes us a little squirrely as accountants to sign off on that one. So, yeah, we probably would try to get you that. Tempo it down a little bit.
- [37:29]
B
Just like with my golf score, all tax returns are quoted approximately. Right.
- [37:32]
D
And as I just client as well, everything's deductible until you get caught. Right. And so you might have a friend who's deducting their cat, their dog, their gold jewelry. Well, just because your friend's deducting, that doesn't mean it's legal. Right. And so.
- [37:50]
B
And the whole job is to advise our clients is what's, you know, what. What's in the. In the gray area, what's black, what's white, and all that kind of stu. Take a minute, guys, because I got some more stuff I want to talk to you about. Time flies when you're having fun. Talk a little bit about what we do at I Bailey. Now, again, you guys listening to this podcast. We have thousands of listeners all over the country. You might be with a single cpa, and they do your taxes and your bookkeeping. When I merged my CPA firm back in 2018 with a local from in Tustin, they had resources that were great. But when that firm merged with I. Bailey In 2020, I was like a kid in a candy store. It's kind of like if you're a dentist and you have access to Gordon Christensen, John Kois, Frank Speer, Sherilyn Sheets, Lian Brady at the Penke Institute. I mean that's what it's like being at ide. So guys, talk a little bit about what we do at I Bailey and I want you both to give out your contact information. If doctors, you have a. Just want to ask a question about what we're talking about or maybe you're not getting the CPA service that you really should be getting. I am very proud to be part of this firm and these two guys are as good as it gets. So Don, start out a little bit and then Scott, I want you both to give out your information.
- [39:10]
C
Yeah. So as you mentioned earlier on, I work out of Southern California though I serve clients in other parts of the country. And my, my office here in Tashin is the main phone line is 715-505-9000.
- [39:26]
B
But you can get.
- [39:27]
D
Huh.
- [39:28]
C
714. Jeez.
- [39:29]
B
Yes. 715. I think they end up in, somewhere in, in Europe, I think. Right.
- [39:37]
C
Philippines. I don't know.
- [39:38]
D
Maybe.
- [39:38]
B
I don't know.
- [39:39]
C
All right, so how much I always tell people whenever I get my number out, I have to pause because I don't call myself. And my, my direct line here at the office is 657-279-3273. And my email address which will be like arts and Scots. It's my first initial and last name, D. Watson. And that's@oddbally.com I Bailey is all together, no underscores or spaces or special characters.
- [40:07]
B
Scott, how, how do we get a hold of you some of, some of the other services that we've used for dentists at IDE Bailey that OCPA firms quite frankly don't have access to.
- [40:19]
D
Yeah, yeah. So I like to talk to new clients about we're not just going to prepare your tax return and give you some tax advice once or twice a year. I really like our client Accounting services group to help provide timely financial information dashboards to help you make good decisions, review how you've done in the past. You know, where are we going in the future? And upwards of. All right, we got to look into maybe transitioning to accrual based accounting. Well, how do we do that? Well, we have the expertise in house and it's nice to be surrounded by really smart people who can help our clients that are doing a lot of the ortho work. A lot of these long term procedures really get a good view of the financial health of their practice. So that's on the finance side if you're considering purchasing a building, how great of an addition that can be for your practice? I think we might be talking about that.
- [41:12]
B
Yeah, we'll be talking about that in a minute.
- [41:14]
D
But having a cost segregation team in house to help explain, hey, what's the cost benefit of that for you? It's, it's great to have these folks right next door and have the expertise where our clients know that they're in the best position possible and we're looking out for them and we're their advocate and their advisor on their growth journey.
- [41:36]
B
And how do we get a hold of you, Scott?
- [41:38]
D
Yeah, my, my Direct line is 970-999-8932 and my email is first initial S last name H A B as in boy E R M A n dot com.
- [41:54]
B
Sounds great. All right.
- [41:56]
C
And, and I'll for one thing too and you know, Scott's great at let you know about the things we do in house, but I'm also pretty proud of Scott and I and you are to built referral network and so there are things that we can't do that help our dentist directly, but just the fact that we've been able to be part of the ADCPA and some of these other organizations outside of work, you know, whether it's the attorneys, the consultants, the brokers like you are. You know, a lot of times when we have a client looking to sell, we have this direct line to discuss about practice values and things of that nature that give us a little bit of insight that hopefully maybe the, the average bear can do for their, for their client.
- [42:39]
D
Absolutely.
- [42:40]
B
I. Scott, let's jump into the, the, the next big thing that we can help save money for our doctors on which is retirement plans. Again, this is a two hour conversation. I'm going to have you boil it down the way I like to refer to it is like you know, Baby bear, mama bear and papa bear, which is the simple IRA, profit serving 401k and defined benefit. Why don't you touch on those and you know, what if a doctor hasn't established a plan and maybe what if they want to go to the next level, be a funding more. So how do you approach retirement plans with your clients and funding or establishing or expanding?
- [43:19]
D
Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Eric. So it really comes down to. All right, I don't want to look at this in a silo, right? Let's not just focus on one year. Let's look at your journey of wealth building for the next 40, 50, however many years and part of that process and It's a big component of it is saving for retirement. And so one of the most powerful tools you can have and deductions on that journey, like you said, is a retirement plan. So maybe early on in your practice, when it's not cash flowing as much as you want it to, because it's a startup or it's an acquisition and you're getting things under control, and maybe those first few years you look at a simple IRA and the limits of that aren't as high as they are for some other plans. And so you could potentially put in anywhere from say 20 to $40,000, depending on who's on payroll with family members and so forth. And so you can get a pretty good bang for your buck. Those are pretty cheap to run with minimal testing, but they are a lot looser with who can participate within that plan. So a lot of employees can elect and, and participate in that.
- [44:30]
B
So less than 40,000. A simple might be appropriate. Really got to figure out how much money can you afford to contribute every year, right?
- [44:38]
D
Exactly, exactly. That's a big decision component of that too. And then moving up in a middle ground is a 401k with maybe a profit share component of it. And on that one you can potentially put away up to $100,000 with spouse on payroll and so forth. And that can move depending on age, compensation level and so forth. And you have a lot more restrictions on who can participate with vesting schedules too. Or someone leaves in the first three years. All right, well maybe you get some of that money back where you're not just giving away free money to your employees, even though they're working hard for your practice, you still want some strings attached to. So that's the second in line for retirement plan contributions. And the third one pretty powerful for some of those high income practices, especially with the ones where the owners are maybe a little bit older and have that disposable income is a cash balance plan, also referred to as maybe a defined benefit plan. So those ones I can see contributions for those which can pair up with a 401k plan, contributions for those can be over $100,000 a year. That's in addition to the 401k plan. So those can be also very powerful, especially in the year of sale if you have a big cash influx coming in and you're not going to obviously spend all that cash in year one after you sail. That's another powerful tool too.
- [46:13]
B
And here's another thing, doctors, let's say that you bought your practice 10 years ago and you're now in the 10th year of paying off your practice loan with Bank XYZ and your payment $7,000 a month.
- [46:25]
C
Well.
- [46:28]
B
All your interest deductions are pretty much gone by the time you're in the last couple years. And what I want you to do is I want you to take that $7,000 a month as soon as the loan is paid off. And instead of writing a check to the bank, you're writing it to a brokerage firm to contribute to a retirement plan. So you take that $7,000 that's virtually not deductible at all at the end because it's all principal that you've already written off. And now you're going to go ahead and put it into a retirement plan that's 100% deductible. So again, we can spend days on this. Don, let's touch on putting children, parents on the payroll. That's another way family members on the payroll standard deduction could talk about. That's another way that we can save some money, right?
- [47:13]
C
Yeah. So I'm sure any of us are free from having to supplement what our kids need, whether they're 8 years old or whether they're 18 or maybe even 28 in some cases. So we find ourselves giving money out of our own pockets to the kids. And what we will talk to a lot of our clients about is, you know what, if you're going to be give money anyway, why not shift it from your tax table to theirs? So the standard deduction currently is going to be up above $15,000 per individual at the federal level can swear, depending on what state you're in, that you won't have some slight tax bill here in California. It might amount to being 75, $150 just because of the rates. But small potatoes to move $15,000, $12,000 of income off of your plate to theirs. They still get the same benefit, but yet you can get out the taxes. And when you have two, three, four kids, that that really adds up. The one thing that would be there.
- [48:12]
D
I've never heard slight tax bill in California mentioned in the same stuff.
- [48:20]
B
And for our listeners in California, Gavin Newsom located in Sacramento, California, if you have any problems with your tax bill.
- [48:29]
C
Send a letter to him.
- [48:30]
B
Exactly.
- [48:30]
C
What's oddly enough is lower tax brackets in California are pretty reasonable. It just it accelerates fairly quickly from like 50 to 100. And all of a sudden before you know, you're in a 9% rate and they can cap out at 12 or 13% so, yeah, it's one big pendulum swing. But the one thing I always want to encourage is don't just arbitrarily write checks to the children without them having some documentation of what they do. Now, they may or may not do everything exactly as you specify, but have a payroll file. If they're of a certain age, what kinds of things would they do? Shredding papers, picking up trash up in the parking lot. Something small. If they're really small, like infants, you've probably been told about modeling fees, putting them on the website or printed materials. As they get older, they could be answering the phone to the front desk and doing things like that. Just make it look and smell like a legitimate job. Not going to get much pushback on the amount you pay them. But again, you want to document like you would any other employee. The other thing is, let's not make these checks that are written at the end of the year. You know, December 30th. All of a sudden you're stroking a check for $15,000 or 15,007 50 just to get the standard deduction to offset it. It's probably not going to look and smell like a legitimate transaction. Pay them 1000 bucks a month, 1200 bucks a month, and make it look, you know, and feel like you would for any other employee.
- [50:00]
B
Okay, a couple more things I want to hit. This podcast will go, always goes a little longer than my standard hour podcast. But there's just always so much, especially this year. Scott, talk about then this is the fourth thing is a doctor owning his or her real estate. Now in Don's. In my neighborhood, that gets a little more difficult based on valuations and availability of owning your suite. But in other parts of the country, it is very doable. So Scott, talk about that and how we can generate, you know, like cost segregation studies and stuff like that. How, how owning your own real estate is a great tax angle and financial planning angle.
- [50:39]
D
Yeah, yeah. I equate to owning your own home. Right. I think you'd rather you rather build equity in your own house rather than paying a landlord for them to build their own equity. So I say that same same line for commercial real estate. Not only are you, are you getting in at, you know, this cost today, but you have that appreciation down the road for the property that you can eventually sell when you're riding off into the sunset. So what, what a cost segregation study is and, and maybe you've heard or haven't heard about it, but when you look at potentially purchasing real estate that your practice will Operate in that. You can depreciate that property just like you do the purchase price of equipment or practice. But the depreciable life of commercial property, you can't depreciate it in year one. Generally, you have to depreciate it over the IRS's required term of 39 years. Well, a dollar that you're depreciating 39 years from now is not worth as much as a dollar today. Right? Just the time value money component. I'd rather have a dollar today than a dollar 39 years from now because you can use it to invest and so forth. And so what a cost segregation study does, and it's the legitimate study, it was blessed by the IRS under some case law. I think it had to do with airplanes actually, years ago. That's where originated from. So a cost segregation study breaks down the cost of that building into components. So the electrical components, the plumbing components, all these components that are attached to shorter life properties. The cost segregation study breaks the purchase price of that building down to the shorter life components. And generally when I talk to my clients about, okay, well, how much can I deduct in year one? Well, we say, well, the purchase price of the property. You can say, well, you got some of the allocates to land, right? So whether it's 10 to 20 to 30% of the purchase price is allocable to land. If you also own the land of that property, well, then the rest of that, multiply it by 30%, and that's your general ballpark of what you can accelerate as a deduction in year one with 100% bonus depreciation rules. So 30% of the building allocation could potentially be deductible in year one, which is a huge win. And I always say, well, let's slow down on taking all that deduction year one, because what if it's a $5 million property and we can have a potential million dollar deduction in year one, but your practice is only making $500,000 a year between wages and distributions. Well, we don't want to eat into those lower brackets that we were talking about earlier, right? 10, 12, 22, 24. I always say let's spread out those deductions and not eat into those smaller tax brackets. So I say the sweet spot, let's stay under the 32% bracket as much as we can. And if we go over that, all right, well, maybe it's time to buy another building, right? That's awesome.
- [53:43]
B
And the thing is, the thing is too is that, you know, Doctors, I don't want you to listen to this and say, well, you know, I can, I can look at it. I know a lot about construction. I can just kind of segregate it myself. No, it is very, very well set in the IRS's manual. They have a manual that they go by that if you don't have what's called an engineered cost segregation study and you just try and do it on your own, they will not honor that. That's my understanding. And the fact of the matter is, is that as Scott says, you want to plan these deductions. And the other thing you have to do is there's this. And again, we'll geek out a little bit on taxes under 469. There's a grouping election we have to make, and if we don't make that grouping election, a lot of CPAs don't know about that. You don't get the deduction. And so the bottom line is if you buy real estate and you have a, or build out real estate and you have a cost segregation study, we can do some major damage in a year or two or we can save those deductions. So real estate, if you're thinking about it. And one more thing I want to touch on, guys. Let's say that we built a building seven years ago and this is the first time a doctor's hearing about a cost segregation study. We can go back and make a retroactive adjustment, can't we?
- [55:05]
D
Yeah, yeah, you can. You can do a change in accounting method and catch up on all the depreciation that you should have had minus what you took in one year. But usually I hear it's got to be within, you know, the first 10 years or so of the building, place and service for its time money calculation.
- [55:22]
B
If you did in the last five, six, seven years, you can nail yourself a big number. All right, let's. Let's hit on this one big or OB3. I like that. OB3. This OB3, one big beautiful bill act. So, Don, again, we. Don, you and I just did a, an hour long seminar, but we're going to cover this in maybe five to ten minutes at the most. Talk about some of the changes with the standard deduction, the SALT deduction, the 199A, how that works.
- [55:51]
C
Yeah, I'll hit on that. So standard deduction, that was meant to be for those who can't itemize. And you got your house paid down, so your mortgage is low. Maybe you don't have a state where you've got a lot of taxes. Granted, the salt's been $10,000 for the past number of years. So most with the grouping of personal property taxes, real estate taxes, income taxes out of their state and locality exceeded the 10,000. But the standard deduction was there to replace that should you not have enough to exceed it. So this year what was going to happen was once the year was done, the amounts were going to go down significantly to pre2017, let's just call them 12,000 single, 24,000 joints. What the I'll call it one OB cubed did is they took those numbers for single to $15,750 even higher than what they were slated to be even under the old rules with indexing. And it married to 31,500. So almost if you look at 24,000 versus 31,500, about a 25% increase because of what the bill allowed for. So what you're going to do is if you, if you don't have enough to, to make it beyond the standard deduction, that's what you get in the itemized deduction form. The SALT number, which was a big talked about topic, has gone from 10 to 40,000. So everybody gets the chance to get up to $40,000 again. It starts with whether you have enough taxes, state, local, personal property and so forth. And if you can get above 40,000, you get to start with a base of 40. There are income limitations however, that within the 4 to $500,000 range as you start moving up that you could find yourself chipped away and you will never get less than 10,000, but you could find yourself somewhere in between as your income climbs. But that's where salt is going these days. And I think that's going to capture a good percentage of the population that they're going to see something more than they saw in their 2024 return. Okay. And one of the, one of the tools that was used when this salt cap kicked in back in 2017, 2018, I think it was when the bill took of actual effect was what they call the pass through entity tax. And was that something you had planned on talking about art, or do you want me to get into that?
- [58:24]
B
You go ahead.
- [58:25]
C
Okay. And about 30 states at the time said, you know, how about instead of you trying to get this deduction on your return, which for many people you're likely not in states like New York, California, Illinois, where you just shoot right through that $10,000 and are capped anyway, how about you make it a business level deduction and we'll put programs together so that you can make this payment that goes against your state personal taxes, that you're going to do it out of the corporation and make it a federal deduction at debt level. That way you're not trying to capture deduction at the personal level, you're just going to lop it right off immediately. Does Colorado have one of those, Scott?
- [59:10]
D
We do, yep.
- [59:11]
C
Yep.
- [59:13]
B
I think there's what, 30, 35 to 40 states that have them. I think something like that.
- [59:17]
D
All states that have an income tax have it, except for I think Pennsylvania. And is there another one or two? Yeah, I don't know.
- [59:24]
C
Gotcha. So that's been a big part of our tax planning as well is getting those payments done by the end of the year to make it a 2025 deduction versus paying it with the return next year and waiting another year. Again, time value money is important. And one of the other things that a lot of you out there, if you have an S corporation or a pass through entity like a partnership, you might have experienced the 199A deduction, also known as QBI, Qualified Business Income. And that is that was in lie of getting a tax rate reduction for a business that is a corporation. So you, a lot of you heard about these big corporations out there getting tax breaks and reducing the tax rate down to now what is, I want to say 21% flat, 21% of flat. And they had, they had margins as well and different tiers. But they said well what about us, we're ESCORPs, we're partnerships, we're businesses, we just don't operate that way. So what they did instead was using up to a 20% reduction, have a deduction against your income from those particular passive entities. And that in effect brought your base of income down. So while your rate didn't reduce, your base of income reduced when multiplied by your personal tax rate. And that also has limitations as well. But that has been made permanent for this year going forward. And just talk to your advisors, your CPAs about how that affects you because the all the little nuances of it also has income. It's the type of business that you operate, the wages you pay and how it blends with a lot of other activities on your return. But in a very simple vacuum, 20% of your income would be a deduction on your return.
- [61:12]
B
Okay. Now Scott, I know that as part of this one big beautiful bill act, a lot of the energy incentives either have gone away or are in the process. Maybe touch on that. And then the child tax credit and the estate provisions. And I mean again, we, we did. Actually Don, you and I did a podcast about. Well, right after this thing came out. So we covered it. So if doctors, if you want to go on, go on to Ideally's website, www.idebelly.com. we've got all the podcasts there. And Don and I did a real deep dive into this. And so anyway, but Scott, talk about the, you know, child tax credit, energy incentives and maybe the estate tax.
- [61:55]
D
Yeah, yeah. So child tax credits, those got bumped up by a couple hundred bucks from what they were previously at $2,000. So 2200 now, still the same phase out. So if you're at income of over $400,000, it starts phasing out. I think it's completely phased out once you get to $500,000 of income. So. So a little bit better for, for, for most folks under that $400,000 income level, then the key energy incentives that have been around for a while, like solar panels. If you get solar on your house, well, it can knock off. It fluctuated over the years, anywhere from 20 forward. Potentially 30% tax credit on those solar panels. Well, that's gone into this year. So if you're looking at getting solar, it's, it's probably time to move pretty fast.
- [62:43]
B
Now. You got, you got. And again we're gonna, we're gonna publish this right at, right at the end of November. So you're from hearing this, you're gonna have a month to do it. Now I guarantee you these solar companies are going to be inundated in December.
- [62:54]
C
Flying off the shelf.
- [62:56]
D
Yep.
- [62:56]
C
Yeah.
- [62:56]
D
Yeah. And then same with, you know, new doors, windows, insulation in your house, that's part of that same provisions that solar panels is under so you can get tax credits for more energy for efficient property, place and service in your own residence. There's tax credits for that. Clean energy vehicles. So all the Teslas that are driving around, there's certain income limitations on those anyways, but those are now gone right after September 30th.
- [63:23]
B
30Th. Yep.
- [63:24]
D
So.
- [63:25]
C
So, but he's always keep an eye out for your state, your, your, your state. Maybe they do something for you upon the purchase or application like that.
- [63:34]
B
So guys, let's put a bow on all this. This is fantastic information. Again, we have an hour to help our doctors. Here's the most important thing. The takeaway from this is if you are not sitting down with a dental specific CPA who understands your business, not only can help you with your profitability, but Help you save in taxes. You need to do it before the end of the year. Don't just say okay, well we're a commodity. We're see, we're an account, we're a commodity. We'll pay you a little bit of money in February, March and April, do our taxes and we won't worry about it. We can save you money that you can use to fund retirement, to fund your kids college education, to buy a house, to pay down your mortgage. This is what our job is. Our job is to increase the federal deficit and the federal debt. That's what we are here and we're put on earth to do. So what we want you to do is to look at these big picture items. Retirement plans, real estate, family on, on the payroll automobiles, you know, again, equipment and how can we use these to get our incomes down? And, and all these new, you know, rules, the, the SALT deduction and the, the 199. How can we get your income down below the limitations? So that on top of those, on top of all these, these new provisions, the benefits of equipment, the benefits of retirement, family members, we can on top of that give you the SALT deduction, the 199. I mean, you know, if you've got a net income from your S Corp. Of you know, 300,000, $200,000, that's a, that could potentially be a $40,000 deduction. It's going to potentially save you you know, 10, $12,000. So as a tax planner, guys, we hit this in little bite sized pieces and at the end of the day we can really do some damage. So I want you guys to each give me some final thoughts because we're about out of time here. Probably spent too much time talking about football, but that's, that, that's required by law, I think. Don, some final thoughts and I want you to give out your phone number and then Same for you, Scott.
- [65:45]
C
Yeah, I mean I think I was actually gonna go the same direction you did. So I guess what I would tell you is make, make the time to sit down with somebody just to walk through. It's, it's easy enough to be very tunnel visioned on where you think you're at, but somebody else that can pull together a lot of these pieces and, and where Art was going was there are a number of things in our tax law that are driven by, by what level of income, whether it's the child tax credit, the QBI, which is the 1998donuction, your salt. So if you have three or four things that are driven by you being in this four to $500,000 income range. And somebody can work with you to bring your business income down. You might have a compounding effect across two or three or four different benefits. So just wouldn't want you to disregard that. The, the benefit that could be had by just spending a couple hours with somebody about your situation. And again, my number here in Orange County, California is 657-279-3273. And my email, again, it's D watsondvalley.com.
- [66:52]
B
Mr. Scott, final comments and give out your information, please.
- [66:56]
D
I appreciate you having me on hard. You know, it's, it's, it's a slow and steady right. We're gonna do as much as we can to lower your liability, not just this year, but in future years. I think the retirement plan, our conversation is, is understated out there. I was just putting together a table while we were talking. If you're putting in 60,000 a year for 30 years at a 6%, you know, modest growth rate over time, you know, that comes up to be 1.8 million that you're putting into it. Well, the total growth on that is about 4 million compounded at 6%. So, you know, don't, don't sleep on the retirement plans. I think ending up and finishing your career with a 6 million dollar 401k balance, that's a, that's a pretty, that's a pretty big deal. It can help some folks as they ride off into the sunset. So appreciate you having us on again, Art. My number is 970 999-8932 and your email address. Oh, you don't want me to say that again. Yes, I do. H A B as in boy E R M a n@ibailey.com.
- [68:02]
B
All right, guys. Hey, I, I appreciate your knowledge. I appreciate your friendship. I really love working with you guys. It's really fun. And doctors, if you are not getting a service from your CPA that you feel like you should be getting and you want to be talking to guys that, that this is all we do all day long, give us a call. Again, I want to thank and please stay, stay with me as I take the podcast out, guys. So thank you again to decisions in dentistry. Www.decisionsindentistry.com. 140 Continuing education courses at a wonderful, very low price and a great clinical magazine. Again, we've told you, if you're not working with dental CPA, you should be in Southern California. February 28th. Dave and Buster's in orange. Email me at awiedermandbailey.com or call me at 657-279-3243 and we'll get you enrolled for that all day course on transitions, Buyer or seller. And again, if you're going to be in Chicago the week of it's February 19th, the 21st. I will be speaking, I believe, on that Friday. If I remember correctly, I should probably figure that out. So I show up on the right day and I do have a heavy coat so I will be ready for Chicago Midwinter Conference. I can see a lot of my friends. I'm looking forward to it. And with that everyone. Thank you Scott. Thank you Don for great information and for all you do for the dentists that we've worked with. All right, this is Art Wiederman for the Art of Dental Finance and Management podcast with Art Wiederman, cpa. Thank you for listening. Please subscribe. Please tell your friends about the podcast and we'll see you next time. Bye bye.
- [69:45]
A
Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Art of Dental Finance and Management podcast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you never miss an episode. The Art of Dental Finance and Management podcast is produced by Ide Bailey in partnership with Art Wiederman, CPA Decisions and Dentistry Magazine magazine and the Academy of Dental CPAs. For audience questions and feedback, email Art Wiederman awiedermandbailey.com that's a W I e d e r M a n at E I D E B A I l l y.com or you may call Art at 657-279-3243.