A Few Shoes [LIVE]

Summary

Articles of Interest: A Few Shoes [LIVE] – Detailed Summary

Release Date: October 25, 2023
Host: Avery Trufelman
Guests: Aurora James (Founder of the 15% Pledge and Brother Vellies) and Elizabeth Semmelhack (Bada Shoe Museum)

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1. Introduction and Live Format

Avery Trufelman opens the episode by highlighting the unique live format recorded at the Hot Docs Festival in Toronto on October 20, 2023. Breaking from the traditional spliced interviews, Avery introduces both guest experts simultaneously to delve deep into the world of shoes—a topic previously unexplored on the show.

2. The Significance of Shoes in Cultural Storytelling

Avery Trufelman emphasizes her passion for exploring how garments are made, their supply chains, and the stories they hold. She sets the stage for an insightful discussion with Aurora James and Elizabeth Semmelhack, focusing on shoes as powerful storytellers.

Quote:

"Shoes maintain the footprint of the wearer... It can be a very emotional response to these shoes." – Elizabeth Semmelhack [07:03]

3. Aurora James' Personal Journey with Fashion

Aurora James shares her childhood experiences in Toronto, influenced heavily by her adoptive mother who introduced her to fashion from an anthropological perspective. This upbringing instilled in Aurora the importance of uncovering women's histories through garments.

Quote:

"Fashion is one of the ways that women hold power." – Aurora James [04:19]

She recounts her early fascination with the meticulous craftsmanship of traditional footwear, such as moccasins and Danish clogs, which later inspired her to pursue shoe design.

4. Elizabeth Semmelhack on the Bada Shoe Museum's Collection

Elizabeth Semmelhack provides insights into the museum’s extensive shoe collection, highlighting how shoes preserve the essence of their wearers in a way that clothing alone cannot. She explains the emotional and historical value embedded in each pair.

Quote:

"Shoes retain a presence of the body... and you have to think about the maker." – Elizabeth Semmelhack [06:05]

5. Detailed Exploration of Various Shoe Styles

a. Inuit Cat Murmulluks (1987)

Elizabeth describes a pair of Inuit cat murkuks made from seal fur, emphasizing traditional craftsmanship and the symbolic use of materials.

Quote:

"These are beautiful... the nap of the fur goes sideways for women." – Elizabeth Semmelhack [07:53]

b. Moroccan Babouche

Aurora James discusses her encounter with Moroccan babouches, their cultural significance, and her adaptation of these traditional shoes for a modern audience.

Quote:

"These shoes take hours and hours and hours to make... they are made with intention and love." – Aurora James [50:56]

c. Tire Sandals from Cambodia and South Africa

Elizabeth introduces tire sandals, explaining their sustainable creation from leftover tires. Aurora shares her experiences in Kenya, collaborating with local artisans to create tire sandals that respect traditional methods.

Quote:

"We’re seeing how we can do hyper customization with things like 3D printing and knitting." – Elizabeth Semmelhack [38:39]

d. Mexican Huaraches

Aurora highlights the beauty and versatility of traditional Mexican huaraches, contrasting their affordability in markets with the higher-priced, ethically made versions by Brother Vellies.

Quote:

"Just because you love something doesn't mean you have to own it." – Aurora James [55:35]

e. Canadian Cowboy Boots

Elizabeth traces the history of cowboy boots, their romanticization in American culture, and their cultural significance. Aurora discusses her own "doodle boot," inspired by traditional designs and infused with activism.

Quote:

"These cowboy boots are handmade and represent a blend of traditional American and Mexican influences." – Elizabeth Semmelhack [58:06]

6. Challenges in Ethical and Sustainable Shoe Production

The conversation delves into the complexities of maintaining ethical supply chains. Aurora discusses the impact of American donated clothing on African economies and the struggles faced when competing with fast fashion brands like Steve Madden.

Quote:

"Capitalism isn't conducive to artisanship... it's hard to maintain a relationship with the consumer." – Aurora James [45:38]

She shares anecdotes about supply chain disruptions caused by political instability and the difficulties in scaling artisan shoe production without compromising ethical standards.

7. Pricing and Accessibility of Artisan Shoes

Aurora James addresses the high costs of ethically made shoes compared to mass-produced alternatives. She advocates for fair compensation for artisans and raises awareness about the true value of handcrafted footwear.

Quote:

"This is art. These people in Mexico are making this shoe with me. This is art." – Aurora James [52:57]

She explains the rationale behind the pricing, emphasizing sustainability, quality, and the empowerment of local artisans.

8. Innovations and the Future of Shoe Manufacturing

Elizabeth Semmelhack speculates on the future of shoe sizing and production, suggesting that advancements like 3D printing and home-based knitting could revolutionize customization and sustainability in footwear.

Quote:

"We will, in 500 years, look back and say, wait, they used to have to wear something called a size." – Elizabeth Semmelhack [38:33]

9. Brother Vellies and the 15% Pledge

Aurora highlights her initiatives, including the 15% Pledge, a movement urging major retailers to allocate 15% of their shelf space to Black-owned brands. This initiative aims to redistribute significant revenue to support Black businesses.

Quote:

"We are in the process of reallocating over $14 billion of annual revenue to Black-owned businesses across the country." – Aurora James [65:28]

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Avery Trufelman wraps up the live session by thanking the guests and acknowledging the collaborative efforts that make such insightful discussions possible. Aurora and Elizabeth share final remarks, reinforcing the importance of ethical fashion and the stories behind every pair of shoes.

Closing Quote:

"Fashion is something that is made by people with intention and with love. And I believe that it's a powerful piece of art." – Aurora James [54:30]

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Key Takeaways

• Shoes as Historical Artifacts: Shoes carry rich cultural narratives and preserve the history and identity of their wearers and makers.

• Ethical Production Challenges: Maintaining ethical and sustainable practices in shoe manufacturing is complex and often at odds with fast fashion dynamics.

• Cultural Preservation and Adaptation: Bridging traditional craftsmanship with modern design can empower artisans and preserve cultural heritage.

• Economic Impact of Fashion Choices: Consumer choices significantly impact global economies, especially in regions reliant on artisanal trades.

• Future Innovations: Technological advancements hold the potential to transform shoe manufacturing, emphasizing customization and sustainability.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Aurora James [04:19]: "I think that fashion's extremely powerful. And it's also a huge industry that brings a ton of money into many places."

• Elizabeth Semmelhack [07:53]: "These are beautiful... the nap of the fur goes sideways for women."

• Aurora James [10:33]: "They were bead work... I just don’t feel like that’s my place."

• Elizabeth Semmelhack [38:00]: "It's all about the hands that touch every single shoe."

• Aurora James [55:35]: "Just because you love something doesn't mean you have to own it."

• Aurora James [65:28]: "We are in the process of reallocating over $14 billion of annual revenue to Black-owned businesses across the country."

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This episode of Articles of Interest offers a profound exploration into the world of shoes, intertwining personal narratives, cultural histories, and the ongoing struggle for ethical fashion. Through the expertise of Aurora James and Elizabeth Semmelhack, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the craftsmanship and stories embedded in every step we take.

Transcript

[Avery Trufelman]

For tonight's event, I'd like to hand the stage over to the host of articles of interest.

[Aurora James]

Please join me. Giving it up for Avery Trufelman.

[Avery Trufelman]

This episode was recorded on October 20, 2023 at the Hot Docs Festival in Toronto. Hey, thanks, everyone.

[Aurora James]

This is so cool.

[Avery Trufelman]

So, yeah, this is a live show. I'm not messing around. This is a live ass show. It's coming out on Wednesday. It's gonna be great. But one of the things. So, yeah, one of the great pleasures of making articles of interest is I love making a show about how clothes and garments are made, the systems that make them, the supply chain that makes them, and also talking to historians and experts who have all sorts of brilliant ideas about the garments in question. And I thought, wouldn't it be fitting for the first ever live taping, instead of talking to two different people separately and splicing them together like I normally do, having them both at the same time, having one of the foremost, maybe, yes, the foremost shoe historian in the world and one of the foremost shoe designers in the world to talk together about shoes, which is a huge topic that I haven't covered yet. So that said, I'm going to introduce them one by one, and you should feel free to give it up first of all, for Aurora James, the founder of the 15% pledge, and brother Vellies. Come on up. Welcome, welcome.

[Aurora James]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, my God. Thank you for coming. Prodigal son returns. Thank you for coming back to Toronto.

[Aurora James]

I know. I'm so happy to be here. And now I know that you drink whiskey before you do this.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, yeah. I'd like to say that I do this every time we're all drinking whiskey. It's so chill. It's so no big deal. And may I also bring to the stage Elizabeth Semmelhack of the Bada Shoe Museum, which I have to say, totally unironically, Elizabeth knows this. For many years, I was like, before I die, I have to go to the Potashu Museum. It's like, right down the street, y' all. It is so amazing. So let's start with you, Aurora. So in your autobiography, Wildflower, you write a lot about your childhood here in Toronto. And on a lot of it is about what your mom taught you about clothes. How did she change the way you see garments and what we wear?

[Aurora James]

So my mom was actually adopted at birth, and this was in 1952, needless to say, like pre 23andMe. So she really had no way of tracking where she came from. And what her background was. And she really taught me about fashion a of lot almost from an anthropological perspective, because she would say, like, this is how we can kind of uncover women's history. And so often she would also tell me this Nigerian proverb. Until the lion has a historian, the hunter will always be the hero. And she would say, you have to seek out women's stories in unexpected places. And fashion is one of the places that those stories are so often kept. And so she would take me to the bottistry museum all the time. She would. That was like, we went there all the time. And she would often focus in on a specific pair of shoes, like moccasins or mukluks or Danish clogs. And she would talk about, oh, well, this is utilizing wood because it's from this region that has this tree, et cetera, et cetera. So it was really fascinating.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I mean, it's. You know, anyone who's listening to this show doesn't need the justification of, like, why do clothes matter? But it's kind of. Why do you think shoes have a bit of a bad rap? I feel like it's like, oh, you know, women talking about shoes, it gets written off as this frivolous thing. Why do you think shoes are particularly important for storytelling?

[Aurora James]

I think that fashion gets written off as a frivolous thing because it's one of the ways that women hold power. And I think also when we talk about black women specifically, like, one of the ways that we were actually able to start acquiring generational wealth was through furs. And so there's a lot of belief in the black community that that's one of the reasons why furs have been like, poo pooed Black Women, Sunday church, that was one of their things. And then it kind of fell out of fashion for a lot of different reasons. But I don't know. I really do believe that fashion's extremely powerful. And it's also a huge industry that brings a ton of money into many places.

[Avery Trufelman]

I mean, Elizabeth, can I ask you, what place do shoes hold? Are they a particular realm of fashion storytelling?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I think that what's interesting about shoes is this on. Yeah, yeah. But first, I also wanted to add the point about the question about fashion. You know, I say this a. When I lectured, Canada was founded on fashion. Like, Europeans got on boats and they came over here looking for beaver fur, beaver pelts. To do what? Not to save the world, not to eat beaver steaks, but to make men's hats. Yeah. And we kind of don't from an academic standpoint, often complete the circle where we have discussions of output, but we never think about the role of consumption. And I think the magic of fashion is also what pushes consumerism and keeps that economic engine going. Right. But to your question about shoes and narrative, I think that. And you know, you and I experienced this when you came, and we were in storage when you came.

[Avery Trufelman]

I got to see the storage in the Bottice Museum was so cool.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

You gotta come. You gotta come.

[Aurora James]

Oh, my gosh, please.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Okay. We'll talk. We'll make a date.

[Aurora James]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, we have. We have.

[Avery Trufelman]

Chuck, I saw Ava Gardner's loafers. They were amazing.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I thought she would close to 15,000 artifacts. So it's really quite a few shoes. But also what you experience, and it's something I too, experienced when I started working at the museum, is that if you're looking at a historic dress and it's not on a hanger and on a body, it's just a pile of cloth on the floor, but a pair of shoes maintains the footprint of the wearer. And you almost can't help but imagine who that person was who wore that pair of shoes. It's a kind of extremely. It can be a very sort of emotional response to these shoes. And so you think about the stories of their lives and also all of the shoes that get saved, baby shoes, wedding shoes, et cetera, and these get saved around the world. Many cultures do this. So I think shoes are really have a certain power in them because they retain a presence of the body.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I feel like this goes back to the proverb that you mentioned, Aurora, this idea that history of shoes is actually a very complete history. It's a history written by everyone. There are shoes from children, shoes from women, shoes from all over the world. It's not a linear written history with one perspective, which is pretty extraordinary.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And it's also not just one wearer. You have to think about the maker. Where did the material come from, the dyes, the who sold it, who market? I mean, there's so many hands that touch every single shoe. And so my work will never be done.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, what an excellent transition you provided for me. So let's start by talking about these shoes for our radio audience. Elizabeth, can you describe what these shoes look like? What are these shoes?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

This is a beautiful pair of Inuit cat mix. They were made in 1987. The Bataschee Museum actually wasn't a museum yet. The Batasci foundation had a competition in 1987 that asked women, or actually anybody who was working in traditional materials to make footwear, the best footwear that they could, and submit it to the museum, to this competition. And so this pair is a pair of women's. And I can tell that because the seal fur goes sideways. One of the ways that gender's expressed is that the. The nap of the fur goes side, side to side. For women's boots also, you'll notice that. And for men, it's vertical, and for men, it's. Yeah, it's vertical.

[Avery Trufelman]

Huh.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And so the next pair is men's. But wait, wait, you gotta look at the little. And so the ulu, which is the knife symbol. That's a Ulus. Are used by Inuit women across the Arctic. It's a prize tool for doing many, many different things, including footwear production. And so Mary, the maker, decided to use that as the symbol of the canvas that she made.

[Avery Trufelman]

That is so cool. I'm like, how do you judge a competition?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Like, how do you know that this was the best? Okay, well, actually, go to the next slide.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay. Okay. Are you like, oh, these are bad ones?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

No, no, no, no. Those are not bad ones.

[Aurora James]

I'm just so curious about what the criteria was.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, Exactly. Well, in 1987, I was not there, so I can't tell you.

[Aurora James]

I mean, as someone who gets, like, judged by shoe criteria, I'm always like.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I think it was the materials that were used. Did they use traditional materials throughout the entire construction, like sewing it with sinew, things like that? This pair is by Leah Odykloek, and she made an incredible pair of men's boots that feature these standing polar bears. You can see that the polar bears.

[Aurora James]

Right, yeah, you can see.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

But the way that the design is done isn't through dye. It's through two different colored skins that are sewn together. And then in order to make it look seamless, she married the nap of each fur so that it just lays perfectly.

[Avery Trufelman]

Get out.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

So you can see why maybe these would have won some prizes. Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay. So I bring these up not just because they're cool and they tell a cool story, but, Aurora, early on, your mom took you to watch some of these kamik mukluks getting made. What do you remember about witnessing this process?

[Aurora James]

Just how meticulous these women were. Right. And to your point, there's so much thought that goes into it, and I think that we as consumers don't often spend that much time thinking about process and craft. And to me, I remember watching these women, like, beading, running their hands across the leather, feeling the materials and really doing something and then kind of looking back a little bit at it and saying, like, okay, or maybe making a tweak, right? Like a painter. And I remember my mom talking to me and saying, this is art, right? And there's a big distinction here between what this woman's doing and oftentimes what we're seeing in the mall. And then I remember her immediately drawing a parallel the next time we saw something that was like Chanel or Louis Vuitton and saying like, oh, I wonder how that was made.

[Avery Trufelman]

How old were you when you. When you witnessed this?

[Aurora James]

Really young, probably. Maybe 13.

[Avery Trufelman]

So this is, like. I mean, it's in your biography. This is, like, a formative thing for you. Like, what was your takeaway from. From that?

[Aurora James]

Well, I went through a very brief period of time before I started, like, failing school where I wanted to be a lawyer just to fight counterfeit handbags. Because I was like, they're stealing other people's art.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

This is wrong.

[Aurora James]

You know? And I was like, fashion is art. Don't be confused. And everyone was like, okay, because I was wearing, like, JLo Velour tracksuits at the time.

[Avery Trufelman]

But that. But you didn't yet have the twinkle in your eye that you wanted to be a shoe designer.

[Aurora James]

No, never. Because I also was seeing, you know, I saw some of these women at work, right? And then also, growing up in Canada, we had fashion television on five days a week, and then we had fashion television. So we're seeing this art. I mean, there's no other country in the world that played that much fashion content during prime time. No, seriously. And people don't think of Canadians as being, like, fashion people, but it's like, we might not be wearing all the fashions, but we're knowing all the fashions. We're revering the fashions. People were like, well, what was that show? I'm like, no, they would play a whole fashion show for seven minutes straight.

[Avery Trufelman]

Amazing.

[Aurora James]

You know, that was the first time I ever saw boobs. Really, that weren't, like, boobs in my household, but it was really like. It was a whole thing. I'm just saying, you guys know, it's true. You all have the same experience. But wait, so was the idea like.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, I can't get into fashion, because that's, like, a real big deal. You know, you need to study. Like, did you just think that you weren't qualified to be. Why didn't you want to, like, be a fashion designer?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, I didn't think I was qualified. And Also, by the way, I didn't ever see anyone that looked like me, so I think that was a big part of it too. There weren't any black women fashion designers that I was seeing on those shows. Right.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah.

[Aurora James]

So I think that was a part of it. But I think that more so existed in my subconscious. I just was like, Alexander McQueen is amazing. I mean, how could you ever be like, oh, I'm gonna do that wild?

[Avery Trufelman]

But of course it wasn't so wild. Aurora would go on to become a designer, but not on the traditional path. How a search for family roots led to a shoe company after the break.

[Jodi Avargan]

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[Avery Trufelman]

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[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Sure. These are Moroccan babouche, and you'll notice that they're a brilliant yellow color. They look like a mule. But what makes a babouche different from just a slipper or mule is that the back quarters are pushed down as though you have stepped on the back.

[Avery Trufelman]

They look like slides.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, yeah, they look like slides. And that's one of the defining features of Babish. And so you are seeing that here.

[Avery Trufelman]

And what year are these from?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Oh, I should know that.

[Avery Trufelman]

Sorry.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

No, no, no.

[Avery Trufelman]

So good at memorizing things.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

No. So these are not that old. They are from the 80s.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

And then we have another example.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Oh, yeah, these are much older.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, really?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

How old are these?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

These are 19th century. They're royal. They're from Persia. And what's incredible about these, they are beaded with actual pearls.

[Avery Trufelman]

Whoa.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

They're called blood pearls because they're so tiny that it's so hard to actually make them into a bead. And then this particular pair, I have not committed this poem to memory. I apologize. But it has a poem that goes across the insole in Farsi, and it says something like, I am dust under your feet. And if anybody says denies this, you know they're wrong. It's a little more poetic than that, I have to say. But they're incredible.

[Avery Trufelman]

So it runs the gamut in terms of class. Like, all different classes of people wore these shoes.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Absolutely. And so there is some connection to also religious practice. So taking your shoes off five times a day to pray in Islam, I think is reflected by this push down of the back, because you could make these shoes without that back quarter. So I think that it is a gesture of piety to say, I'm not going to wear these as a pair of shoes. I care less about my shoes than I do my responsibilities, my practice of.

[Avery Trufelman]

Taking my shoes off. Correct.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

So, Aurora, where did you first encounter Fabouche?

[Aurora James]

In Morocco. So I mentioned earlier to you that my mom was adopted at birth, and she used fashion to understand where she came from. My dad was born and raised in Ghana, and he passed away when I was really little. And so when I got into my 20s, I kind of started traveling around Africa, kind of almost like backpacking. And.

[Avery Trufelman]

Wait, why do you cringe?

[Aurora James]

Because it reminds me of all these. I was in Morocco last weekend, and it reminded me of how irresponsible I was in how I did it. I rented a car from a guy in the parking lot, like, his personal car. And then when I was bringing it back, I was like, shoot, how am I gonna find this guy? And I pulled into the airport, and he was just on the side, like, waving his hands. And I was like, thank God, because I'm running late for my flight. But it was actually on that trip that I saw people making babush for the first time. And I had seen them before. My mom had shown them to me before, and she collected a lot of things, and she owned Babouche. She never wore them. And she had a lot of kind of traditional artisanal apparel, actually, that she collected and never wore. But I think, you know, once I was actually there and I was seeing them make these shoes, and the thing that struck me the most about going to Morocco the first time was actually the lack of traditional cultural apparel that was there. There was, like, a lot of Hood By Air knockoffs. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Seriously.

[Avery Trufelman]

It was the same market where they were selling.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. In the souks. Yeah. And there were a lot of, like, True Religion jeans. It was like. I'm serious.

[Avery Trufelman]

What a time.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. No, the vibe was Cristiano Ronaldo. And I was like, wait a minute. I've been watching these documentaries, and this is not what I was expecting.

[Avery Trufelman]

So, wait, were these shoes, when you saw them in the market, was this considered, like, tourist. Tourist to get?

[Aurora James]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Like, yes and yes.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. Not that there weren't people that were still wearing them, because there are a lot of people that were still wearing them, but they were largely presented as things that tourists could get and wasn't necessarily aspirational to be wearing that shoe. And I think, for me, one of the things that's always been really exciting and interesting to me with Brother Valleys is taking those things that seem so, like, commonplace and Almost unimportant to people because it's just such a part of their culture that they don't really revere it anymore. And putting it on a pedestal.

[Avery Trufelman]

Well, let's see what you did with the Babouche. So this is one of the early versions that you made. Can you explain how you changed the babouche and made it for. I believe in your book you described it as, like, adapted it for New York. What did you do to the Babouche?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, well, one of the things that I actually had a really tough time with were the tanneries when I was there, because it was a lot of chemicals. And I think for me, I was really interested in also, I became really obsessed with American donated clothing and how that was essentially just all sitting in landfills in Africa.

[Avery Trufelman]

You mean like the clothing that we dump and export and.

[Aurora James]

Totally. Because I was raised in a whole, like, well, if you don't want that anymore, let's donate it to a person in need in Africa. Right. And then come to find out that, you know, 80% of the manufacturing in Ethiopia has been lost because of American donated clothing. Right. And we think of these things, like, oh, Tom's shoes. It's so wonderful. But it's like, you know, when you dump a whole bunch of shoes into a village in Africa, everyone that was making shoes just lost their job. And I think that as North Americans, it's all very well intentioned. Right. But sure, my grandmother would say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. So I was also really fixated on how many landfill jeans were in Marrakesh. And so this is a pair of jeans. And I thought that it was also kind of, I don't know, a fun update. It felt a little bit more contemporary to me and kind of a fun take on it. We used a heavier leather sole, and we kind of, you know, paid tribute to Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake, I guess.

[Avery Trufelman]

The Canadian tuxedo.

[Aurora James]

Yes. Good spin, Avery.

[Avery Trufelman]

But how did it actually come about? Did you, like, go back to the person that was selling the babouche in the market and be like, can you make, like, how did you actually go about making this?

[Aurora James]

So I was super nosy, and I was in. I was in Morocco just last weekend, and I'll pick things up and I'll say, who made this? There's a series of questions that I do, and they're like, my friend, you know, they're just trying to, like, sell it and not really engage. And I'm like, well, what if I needed something changed and they're like, no. And I'm like, well, what if I needed. Like, it changed, but I wanted a bunch. And then they're like, how many? You know, so you do that game for a little bit, and then it's like, what's your WhatsApp? And so these were designed over WhatsApp. Yeah. Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

And so this was just basically, like, designed over WhatsApp.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. I draw things out really quite. You know, unfortunately, it's not good, but it works.

[Avery Trufelman]

How did they react to the idea of, like, okay, go to the trash heap and fish out some jeans?

[Aurora James]

Well, they started using new jeans first.

[Avery Trufelman]

And you had to be like, please don't.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, yeah. And it takes time, you know, because. And also, I always feel like it's a collaboration, right. Like, I have used a lot of bead work, and I never designed any of those beaded patterns, because I just don't feel like that's my place. So I'll say, like, hey, these are the colors that are occurring within the rest of the collection. And this is. And these are my references and inspirations. I'm thinking maybe you might want to do some beading over here or over there, and then, you know, it's up to them.

[Avery Trufelman]

And so at this point, when you started making these initial shoes, you're like, this is a fun thing for me and my friends. Like, how big was the scope? Because you'd never done anything like this before.

[Aurora James]

Definitely not. No. The scope was small. I mean, I launched it at a flea market. So when I started making these babush. Yeah. That was just, like. For me, I was like, I just want something that the other girlies aren't wearing. You know, and the budget was small, so.

[Avery Trufelman]

And now. And then they expanded into all different kinds. And, you know, you mentioned this a little bit, but this idea of, like, cool, right? Is like, you know, in your designing, in your collaborative designing with these artisans, how far do you push it? Because sometimes you can get very far from tradition.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, real far. I've, you know, designed a lot of pairs of babouche, but one thing that I've never done is mess with the back of the shoe, because I think there's things that you just don't do. To me, it's. You can. You can try. It's always fine to try something. I'm not going to go into production with everything. Right. And I think that becomes especially true with certain materials. Like, I use fur. Right. And I use springbok specifically. And that is an animal where there's a mandated culling. Of it in Namibia and South Africa. So there's a certain amount that are killed every season, and that's it. Right. So there's a certain amount of production that we can do. And beyond that, like, I'm not pushing it. I'm not gonna try to ask for anymore. It just is what it is. And there's always going to be a cap. So I'd say from a supply chain, I draw boundaries.

[Avery Trufelman]

Well, yes, you guys, we're just setting you up. Okay, so this one's the big one. Elizabeth, take it away.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Okay. Well, there's a number of different origin stories for them, but the overarching thought is that they do come from South Africa, that they're not an imported design. They are one just everywhere in South Africa, they are a symbol of South Africa. The term valley or veltiskun means field shoe. And so they're worn for all kinds of walks of life, and everybody wears them. This pair is from the 20s, and so you can see sort of how long standing this style has been.

[Avery Trufelman]

And then this one is from the 80s.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yes, this one's from the 80s.

[Avery Trufelman]

And are they pronounced Vellies or Feliz?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I think it depends on who you ask. There's many different pronunciations.

[Avery Trufelman]

Aurora, what is it?

[Aurora James]

Okay, I'm so happy to answer this question. So people. So people ask me literally every day, how do I pronounce it? And I think because Brother Vellies is a luxury brand, people want to pronounce the Vellies because it's spelled V E, L L, I, E, S in like a French way. Exactly. But actually, it technically is Feliz with an F sound. And it was interesting because when I started, you know, making them and selling them in America, it just became Vellies. But it always lights me up inside when someone says Feliz because either they're South African and they know and they're about to freak out because they have such a great connection to that shoe or because they know that they've done the research. And so for everyone in this room and for everyone that's listening now, if you ever call it Brother Fellies, you're dead on. And maybe that could be a goal for me. It's like, eventually, phonetically, I'll have everyone get to Feliz.

[Avery Trufelman]

So the company is called Brother Feliz, not Brother Babush, not Brother Kamek, not anything else. What is your special connection to this shoe? And this is the kind that Aurora makes.

[Aurora James]

So I think for me, a couple things. And. Okay, so I Also grew up in Jamaica. And I will never forget hanging out with the Rastafarians. And they would always wear Clarks. And I would say, you know, what's going on with your shoes? Or whatever. We would talk about the shoes and they would say, this is an African shoe. And I'm like, no, actually, that's a British shoe. And they're like, no, no, this is an African shoe.

[Avery Trufelman]

It does look very similar to the Clark's desert boot, right?

[Aurora James]

And they would be like, no, it's an African shoe. And I'm like, clark's is a British company. Okay, end of that chapter. Fast forward many years when I'm in Namibia in South Africa, and I'm seeing this shoe and I'm realizing, oh my God, this is a traditional African shoe. And I started learning about different workshops and visiting different workshops and hearing some of their stories. And a lot of the workshops were going out of business. And I was like, wait a minute, like these workshops all across Africa that were multi generational are going out of business and yet there is a ton of people that I know and companies that I know that are selling this shoe shape that have literally made billions of dollars. The math isn't mathing for me. And I just wanted to do anything that I could to kind of help specifically with a couple workshops that were at risk of clothes closing. And so I had a tiny bit of savings at that time. And I just hung out with them and got to know the supply chain. They were working with an animal called a kudu, also oryx springbok, which is pictured here. And I made a first batch of shoes with them. I tweaked, you know, the width a little bit and, and, and the colors and all that jazz. And yeah, that was how I launched Brother Velli's with that, with that shoe shape.

[Avery Trufelman]

And it should be said that these look like they were made from an animal. Why was that important to you?

[Aurora James]

I had been vegan for 10 years, and I, you know, that was very much a personal decision for me. And I think in understanding, it was a real aha moment for me traveling in Africa because I realized that that way of life might be sustainable for, for me living in like, in New York City, in Brooklyn, Right. But then drinking milk or whatever we have, literally. But that didn't necessarily mean it was right for people in Swakat Moon, Namibia. And who was I to kind of put my value system on them? Their way of life, their ecology, and the way that they actually lived with animals and cared about animals and Utilized the entire animal, I thought was so, so beautiful. And the part that was hard for me was just seeing how callously people treated the shoes and stuff that they had. So for me, it was, oh, if I can make something absolutely exquisite that I know is going to be passed down and will be a future heirloom with what remains of this animal, then I actually think that I'm serving the animal better.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I mean, it would. You'd include the part of the leather where the bullet was, like, it was really about showing that something like, died for this.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. The first pair of shoes I ever made by myself, because everything that I learned about shoes I learned from people in Africa. And the very first pair that I made totally by myself had had the bullet that I put it on the heel.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I have to say, I learned so much about the animal kingdom from reading your book. I was like, I've not heard about half of these critters. Like, you were using fish leather later on, like this, like, form of sheep that gets, like, dyed by the sun.

[Aurora James]

It's incredible.

[Avery Trufelman]

Why do we. Why do we have such a limited. This is a question for you, Elizabeth. Why do we have such a limited range for what we think shoes can be made of?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I mean, historically, they're made out of many, many different things all around the world. And, you know, like, we were talking about earlier resources, different climates, but industrialization. Right. It's easy to have standardized processes, having standardized leather. It's thickness. You know, you were talking about denim and all of the complications that come with working with different materials slow down production.

[Avery Trufelman]

And then another interesting, like, kind of larger shoe question that I think the Feli brings up is sizing, because. So we're all wearing brother bellies tonight, which is a huge. This is a huge deal for me because I'm a big girl. I'm a size 12, and there's not a lot of shoes that come in my size. And so it's so cool that you and Elizabeth is also very tall. We both have big feet. This is very exciting for us.

[Aurora James]

12 isn't big anymore.

[Avery Trufelman]

I love it so. Well, actually, so this is. This is a question. I asked this to you the other day, but, you know, people don't know that. Are our feet getting bigger? Like, what's going on? Why is 12 not so big anymore?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And so it is a bit of a complicated question. So, yes, we are getting bigger, but we're also accepting larger feet and we're also letting women walk around more. I mean, talking specifically about Western culture and you know, when we were going through storage and you were looking at all the tiny, tiny, little 18th century shoes.

[Avery Trufelman]

Little.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Very, very little. And. And I made the point, right, that it also, you know, Cinderella was written in 1697 for a reason. And that was because different ideas about female beauty were emerging and tiny feet was starting to become one of those new ideas. And so that collecting, those ideas have influenced collecting. And so we have scores of small women's shoes, but that are like just historically prized.

[Avery Trufelman]

That are historically prized or small.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Exactly. And you do not see the same issue with men's shoes from the same period. So, you know, we have different ideas about men's shoes and the qualities associated with men and big feet and other things. And so we have to shake our heads around getting rid of the idea that small is beautiful. And then if we could, I mean, we can't go back in time. All those shoes have been thrown into the dumpster, all those beautiful size 12 shoes. But yes, women had a wide variety of size feet, and we just didn't save all those big shoes.

[Avery Trufelman]

So what is so different about the sizing for felis? It's like a totally alternative universe.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, it's like a South African sizing model. And then the way that we kind of adapted it was just to keep it gender neutral. So it starts at like a 1 and goes up to a veli 13, which is like a Devin Booker size.

[Avery Trufelman]

And what size is like a one? Is that like a child is a one?

[Aurora James]

Okay, a one? It would be a women's size five.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Okay.

[Avery Trufelman]

So is this like a thing? Do lots of different countries have different versions of sizing?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yes, and shoe sizing itself is a wild concept. Right? Like, I mean, historically and around the world, many cultures, you. You worked with the shoemaker the way you've been working with shoemakers to get something made for you. And the idea of having a shoe size was again, part of industrialization, and it changed the way we even think about our own bodies. Like, you used to go to a shoemaker, get a pair of shoes, you often brought the materials, you talked to them, you walked out with a pair of Elizabeth sized shoes. And then industrialization made more shoes available, different price points, but it made it that when you walked in, you were like, oh, I'm a size 11, right? What, what's in my size? And does it meet my needs? A very different approach to clothing the body.

[Aurora James]

I will say, to your point, at one of our workshops, they were used to actually just having people come in and stencil their feet, and then they build the shoe around that.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

That's very true. I mean, that's. Yeah.

[Aurora James]

And we still. Maybe it would be a little harder now, but even before a panda pandemic for a few of our customers, we would do that. That is for the valleys.

[Avery Trufelman]

That is so cool.

[Aurora James]

Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

It's interesting. Now that we're talking about, I'm like, oh, I can't remember the last time that someone even used a Brannock device on me.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, right.

[Avery Trufelman]

The little metal thing that measures your foot in the shoe store.

[Aurora James]

Remember that one, guys?

[Avery Trufelman]

The sweetest, most tender, like, salesmanship tool in the world. And we just don't use it anymore.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Your hot stocking feet on that cool metal. I know.

[Avery Trufelman]

Getting measured.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

But if you stand back and you look at the entire history of human clothing and footwear production, that is new. And I actually think it's coming to an end. And so I think that we will, in 500 years, look back and say, wait, they used to have to wear something called a size, and. And it'll be so weird.

[Avery Trufelman]

Wait, why is that coming to an end?

[Aurora James]

Oh, is this AI?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

It is.

[Aurora James]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

It's. It's, you know, it's 3D printing, and it's knitting at home, and it's all the kinds of ways in which we can do hyper customization. Mushroom leather. Growing your shoes overnight to fit your own feet. Like, there's a lot of exciting things on the horizon.

[Avery Trufelman]

And also on the horizon after the break, more shoes. And a little talk about whether or not shoes should cost so dang much. More shoes. More shoes. We're not done. Elizabeth, what are these?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Okay, so these are tire sandals. These are from Cambodia.

[Avery Trufelman]

And they're made out of tires.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, leftover tires. Tire sandals are made around the world. Rubber is a durable material, and tires, they wear out, but the bulk of it remains usable. And so, knowing that you discuss tire sandals, I thought it'd be interesting to show a Cambodian pair as well as an African pair. These are from South Africa.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

So when did we start to see tire sandals emerge all over the world?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

The second you had the leftover tires. Really?

[Avery Trufelman]

So, like, the 50s, 40s?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

No, you see it earlier. Yeah. Rubber footwear, like the flip flop, goes back to the 30s in Japan when they were sort of replicating their traditional footwear. And so that use of rubber has been definitely throughout the 20th century.

[Avery Trufelman]

And so, Aurora, how did you come to your version of the tire sandal?

[Aurora James]

In Kenya, I met a bunch of Maasai guys who were largely working in the Maasai Mara, but also in Nairobi, mainly entertaining tourists.

[Avery Trufelman]

Like, they would just pose for pictures.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, pose for pictures. Some of them would actually be. So if you go on safari in Kenya, right, and you go to the village and. And do a whole experience there or whatever, a lot of these guys would come and, like, play the village person and let the village people actually just, like, have their regular normal day and not be disturbed.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, that's kind of smart.

[Aurora James]

And they would do the tourist stuff. And there was some of them that actually weren't Maasai. And there was one guy actually that went to college in London. Yeah. And we just. He. They called themselves the fake Maasai. But it was amazing. I was like, listen, guys, get it. I was here for it. But it was so fascinating because they were all wearing these tire sandals, and they were just made by collecting all of the design discarded tires from the safari vehicles that were kind of littering parts of the Mara.

[Avery Trufelman]

And so in your mind, you were like, this is next. This is the next project for me.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, I thought it was incredible. And also we were working a lot on the coast of Kenya, and there were a lot of tires sort of around the beach. And I thought, okay, why not pull these out and start making these shoes? I thought it was really wonderful. I originally started making them in. In. In South Africa, and they were like, it was so hard to. To make them there. They just weren't connecting to that shoe. And that was when I realized, oh, I actually just need to be making shoes in the place that I'm seeing them show up.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah. You were saying that in South Africa, it's not really, like a sandal culture.

[Aurora James]

They're. They're feli people. You know, they're not trying to make a sandal. They're not wearing that. When they. When they saw the reference that I brought them from the Mara, they were like, ew. They weren't into it. So it's like. And because everyone said to me really early on, like, well, why do you produce in so many countries? That seems like a nightmare. And it kind of was, even though it was really rewarding for me. But I was like, listen, like, you can't fit a square peg into a round hole. Like, why force it? You know?

[Avery Trufelman]

But, I mean, so many other people do. I mean, people in many different countries are manufacturing goods designed in a third country for market in, you know, the first country. It's all jumbled up. It's so interesting that you decided in your supply chain to, like, make the Shoes in the factory where they are. Are from.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. Because that's what was interesting to me. Right. If I just wanted to make any shoe, then I would go do that in Italy. Right. And we do work in Italy now a bit. And there's things that they are really good at doing. And so I let them do the things that they're really good at doing. But it's like, don't we kind of all just want the opportunity to do the thing that we're best at doing that we feel most connected to in our own culture? And this, the brand was not called, like, Aurora James Shoes. Right. It was called Brother Vellies. And that was really about this whole idea of a brotherhood of shoes. Because there's different shoes that are coming from different parts. Parts in the world. That's part of how you recognize people and understand people. And, like, I like actually keeping things, you know, with where they're from.

[Avery Trufelman]

Well, I mean, the interesting thing about that is, you know, as you alluded to, it is not uncomplicated. And you write about this in your book. I mean, I cannot imagine the ways you read or watch or listen to the news knowing that, you know, so many people all over the world in all these different factories, your work doesn't happen in a bubble. And may I ask you about how Al Shabaab interfered with the production of these shoes multiple times?

[Aurora James]

Yeah. Nordstrom was not happy.

[Avery Trufelman]

That's the thing that you were engaging. Like the news was actually impacting you, and the supply chain doesn't allow for that. You know what I mean?

[Aurora James]

That's why I think it's so bad that we have such a, like, wall between the consumer and the process. Right. Because it was very real. It was like El Shabab was there. They were taking shipments. They were not letting business. They were a terrorist organization that was really causing significant hardships in Kenya while I was working there. You know, we had the UN try to get involved, and it was really difficult. It was painstaking. It was upsetting. Right. Because we had really created a momentum for these people in these workshops in Kenya. Right. And they were so proud of the work that they were doing. It's months and months and months. Right. And then just to have this whole shipment of shoes be taken, I mean, again and again, you know.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah. And I mean, I guess this is a kind of larger question. I mean, when you talk about the limited supply of leather and these interceptions, it just seems like, yeah, capitalism isn't conducive to artisanship.

[Aurora James]

Not at all.

[Avery Trufelman]

How do you do it?

[Aurora James]

No. But capitalism isn't. Sales are not. Trends are not. Shein is not. Like, all of these things are not right. And it is really hard because I think also, you know, in theory, there's so many people who are like, oh, my God, Like, I love this shoe so much. I love that it's made to order. I love that it's handmade. I love the supply chain. I love it all. Can you overnight it to me for tomorrow? You know, and that disconnect is really real. And it's like, no, like, it's made to order. And it's like, oh, my God. But can you just talk to them so that I can get it, like, next week for my birthday, you know? And listen, like, I love it. I love the enthusiasm. But no. Yeah, right. Because it's not how it works. So I think we. It's so fascinating as humans. Right. And I see this so much, especially these days. It's like, we like to say who we are, but we don't necessarily live who we are always.

[Avery Trufelman]

So. So, like, did you have to then go to Nordstrom and be like, hey, listen, the shipment.

[Aurora James]

Olivia Kim.

[Avery Trufelman]

And what was the reaction? Were they like, tough, tough luck?

[Aurora James]

Like, she, you know, was able to give me grace and all that just. But that's not normal, right? Normally in a retail environment, if you're a couple days late, like, your whole order can get canceled. And that happened to us, too. I mean, we had a huge season with that tire sandal where we had a giant retailer call us and be like, aurora, what the hell? And I'm like, what's up? And they're like, all the tire treads are different.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Oh, my God.

[Aurora James]

And I was like, well, yeah, I know. Remember I told you we were, like, pulling them off of the beach. So it's a lot of different. And they're like, yeah, but this isn't gonna work for the customers.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Oh, God.

[Aurora James]

That's real.

[Avery Trufelman]

So you stopped selling them, right, Literally, yes. For that reason, yes.

[Aurora James]

Because people would be like, it's not exactly as it is in the photo. And I'm like, I know. Because it's a good year and the photo, a Firestone. But it's real. That's real. You know, and so to your earlier point about why can't these things exist? It's because we don't have that relationship with the consumer.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Right.

[Aurora James]

And by the way, that relationship with the consumer is incredibly expensive.

[Avery Trufelman]

You mean having a shop.

[Aurora James]

Having a shop. Having a customer service person that can pick up every Call to expand about the Goodyear Firestone situation. Right. Like, there's a reason why it's just easier to crank out, you know, fast fashion a lot more profitable.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay. Oh, my God. You guys are really killing it with these transitions. I just can't thank you enough. That brings us to our next shoe. Will you do me the honor, Elizabeth, of describing what this shoe is?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

This is Mexico. Mexican Hirachi. And so this is traditional form of footwear found throughout Mexico, handmade, like a woven leather sandal. A woven leather sandal in natural color. And it, too, has become a symbol of Mexico.

[Avery Trufelman]

And how old are they?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

That is a good question, because wearing of leather sandals goes back to Pre Columbian Times, 100%. But you don't necessarily always see this weaving technique, but you do with some vegetable fiber shoes. So the weaving techniques of making footwear, be it leather or vegetable fiber.

[Avery Trufelman]

When you say vegetable fiber, you mean like grass or.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, so anything that can be woven like a basket. And so people in the southern part of North America have, for a very long time used weaving techniques to make footwear. And this is a leather example.

[Avery Trufelman]

And it's. Is it gendered in any way? Is it men's shoe?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Men and women can wear them. It's not as highly gendered. There may be differences that I am unaware of, but it's not a specifically overtly gendered shoe.

[Avery Trufelman]

And this is the Brother Feli's version. Aurora, you said you grew up knowing about huaraches wearing them.

[Aurora James]

Yeah, absolutely. My mom was a big fan of huaraches, and she always told me, this is a traditional Mexican shoe. And I mean, what an incredible shoe.

[Avery Trufelman]

Why?

[Aurora James]

It's just so comfortable. It's so beautiful. It's such a classic shoe.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

It.

[Aurora James]

You can take it from. I mean, I sound like I'm on qvc, but, like, you can literally take it from day to night. I mean, it's just. It's just an incredible shoe. Avery, I don't know what to tell you. It's so good.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay, but here's so in a market in Mexico where you buy these, they are really cheap, right?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, like $3 or so I'm told on Instagram.

[Avery Trufelman]

Well, and you are told this on Instagram because the Brother Feliz version is not so cheap.

[Aurora James]

$235.

[Avery Trufelman]

So how. How do you explain yourself? What happens when people are mad at you about this?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, it was a whole kerfuffle, shall we say? Because Meghan Markle tends to wear them in the summers. And then there's A whole thing where people will be like, oh, my God, Meghan Markle in these shoes. And. And then everyone freaks out. Like, oh, my God, they're $235. You can get these for $6. I can't believe that, you know, Aurora is doing this. It's blasphemy. And I'm like, but wait a minute, guys. These shoes take hours and hours and hours to make. They do, right? Hours. I mean, the weaving is so beautiful, so intricate. Even just getting the leather in a way where the supply chain is clean, where we're not using crazy chemicals and tanning the leather so that we're not leaving a horrible chemical footprint, no pun intended, in the environment, you know, so while I understand that you can buy them for $3 in a market in Mexico, the people that made that shoe were not paid fairly for their work. And so if I can work with Meghan Markle to change the idea around what we should be paying for that shoe so that people in Mexico can start being paid more for their time, I consider that to be a win across the board.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I love that you phrase it as an opportunity to, like, raise the profile of these shoes. And you say all the time, you know, the difference between a lot of these traditional handicrafts are like, if it's made in Italy versus made in Africa.

[Aurora James]

Totally.

[Avery Trufelman]

And yeah. So why? I mean, I guess this is just another version of the question. A lot of your shoes are really expensive. Why charge so much?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, I think it's a supply chain thing for me. Right. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, like, I have to be accountable to the work that we're doing. And, you know, I want to make sure that we pay people something that feels really great. And a lot of the artisans that work in our workshop have gone off and started their own businesses afterwards. And that, to me, is what makes me feel wonderful. Right. Like, there are a lot of designers who have done a version of Huarachis or a version of Babush, and they'll change the name to be something else. Right. And to me, it's like, I want people to know that this is a huarachi, and you can go online and you could probably find a pair on Etsy or you can probably find a pair somewhere else. And I want you to also do that, even though, you know, I understand it's not necessarily what's best for my business, but, like, my. The business that I'm in is also about cultural awareness. Right. And I really, truly believe that all ships rise with. With the tide. And I want all of the artisans around the world to be able to sustain what they're doing, because I don't want to live in a world where fashion is only made in sweatshops, because that's not fashion to me. I wasn't raised to believe that that was fashion. I was raised to believe that that was products. And I believe that fashion is something that is made by people with intention and with love. And I believe that it's a powerful piece of art.

[Avery Trufelman]

But what do you say to people who find it undemocratic that they can't afford the shoes that they love?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, that's also a legitimate argument that we get. And, you know, someone asked me the other day, like, what's your best selling shoe? And I was like, I don't know. You'd have to ask Steve Madden.

[Avery Trufelman]

Can you explain what you mean by that?

[Aurora James]

Because designers design and then dudes do what they do, which is knock it off. And he can get to market way faster than I can, you know, at a way lower price point.

[Avery Trufelman]

And you're not just speaking theoretically. This has happened.

[Aurora James]

My guy is on it. You know, he doesn't sleep. He was out of jail real quick the other day making new shoes. So you can't keep these guys down. Trust me. 2024. Here we go. But anyways, like, it's hard, right? It's really hard.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I mean, because you said something in your book. It was like, just because. And when I read that, I was like, oh, woof. It was like, just because you love something, it doesn't mean you have to own it.

[Aurora James]

Yeah. Yes.

[Avery Trufelman]

That's a wild thing for a business owner to say, right?

[Aurora James]

I guess it was. That's why I shouldn't be in the comments. Avery, what do you mean? No, no, no. That was. That was all jokes aside, that was in response to someone who. Who in the early days of Brother Valleys, I was really knocked off relentlessly. And they would do it where they gave it like an African spin too.

[Avery Trufelman]

Like, wasn't it called, like, Wild Things?

[Aurora James]

Yeah, Wild Things out of Africa, you know, and cringe and. And so I posted about it on Instagram, which, by the way, like, people don't love that. And someone wrote back in the comments and they said, I have to be honest with you, I was actually so excited when I saw that Steve Madden made a version of your Lamu sandal, because I loved it so much and I wanted to own it so much. And I knew that once he made it I would finally be able to. And my heart broke.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah.

[Aurora James]

And I started having some of those conversations. The first thing that I did was, like, I made a video on how you could turn your favorite sandal in your closet into a lamu sandal and try to DIY it. Because I think we should also work on reinventing the shoes that we already have in our closet. I think that's so important. And I should make more of those videos. But, yeah, I mean, I started really wrestling with this idea with especially some of our more expensive shoes, like the doodle boot, which is $1,000. Right. Made in Mexico, hand painted. And someone was like, I wish that you could get your prices down because it needs to be more democratic. And I was like, this is art. These people in Mexico are making this shoe with me. This is art. And just because you love something doesn't mean that you have to have it. And it doesn't also give another person the right to steal that thing on your behalf.

[Avery Trufelman]

Amazing. And also an incredible transition to our final shoe.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

So, Elizabeth, I'm up again. Okay. All right, let's see.

[Avery Trufelman]

Thank you for doing this job. What are these?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

These are cowboy boots, but these are boulets from Canada. From Quebec.

[Aurora James]

Oh, yep.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Third generation. The oldest cowboy boot manufacturer in Canada. And everything's made here in Canada. Handmade. They're beautiful.

[Avery Trufelman]

And can you describe what they look like a little bit for people?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, sorry. I keep forgetting that people can't see them. They're red and black with. It looks almost like a spinal column in white.

[Avery Trufelman]

They're pretty metal.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

They are actually pretty metal. This is one of their classic designs. And this is a pair of San Diego cowboy boots made in Mexico.

[Avery Trufelman]

And it has, like, a traditional sort.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Of wild west cacti cow skull. Cow skull, yeah.

[Avery Trufelman]

It's very interesting that neither of these examples that you gave were American. I thought this was an American thing. Where do cowboy boots come from?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Well, cowboy boots, actually, they do start out with cowboys. When the big herds were being created after the Civil War, most cowboys, cow punchers, just wore usually ex military boots from the Civil War. And then what happened was, is that all of these cowboys were taking all of the cows to the railheads once the railway was put in. And they would get paid. And so some enterprises, upon delivery. Upon delivery, they would get their money. And so one of the first things that they would do is order bespoke boots. Like, they're at the station there. At the station. And so cowboys, because they were like, their masculinity, could not be called into question. They were allowed to be a little more exuberant in their fashion. And so they tended to wear higher heels. In the 19th century. They actually are described as wearing French heels. They are also accused of wearing freedom.

[Avery Trufelman]

Heels, as we call them. Yes.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

They also wore boots that were too tiny for their feet. Another criticism of the time. But that flamboyant style that you see, that sort of, you know, we think of as the cowboy look really comes up from Mexico. And then it is hyper romanticized in the 50s, the post war period, Howdy doody, et cetera, you know, the movie star cowboy is wearing movie star worthy boots that everybody starts to want.

[Avery Trufelman]

Why, why was that a. Why were so many movies about cowboys? Like, why did the cowboy come in? Do you know?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Yeah, I do. I have in fact thought about this. So the cowboy boot becomes romanticized around the turn of the turn of the 20th century. Then World War I happens and all of a sudden the wealthy in America cannot go to Europe for holidays, so they start going to dude ranches. Vogue magazine in the 20s is telling you what boots to go buy, how you should look so that you look like you're an authentic cowboy. And then the same thing basically happens again after World War II. You can't go to Europe. And so the Wild west becomes the place where you can vacation. But it also becomes part of the mythos of what America is.

[Avery Trufelman]

But are they American?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And so, yes, they are American, but they have influence from Mexico. So the leather work is very highly influenced by Mexico. But that is because cowboys were Mexican. I mean, they were arranged, they were indigenous, they were escaped slaves, they were Mexicans. And all of these styles are coming together as part of that flamboyant style that these guys are. You know, they're leaving the cows, they're going into the bootmaker, and they're working with their boot maker to get crazy boots made that are extremely flamboyant. And then it captures the attention of the public one first with movies. And like I said, it happens again in the 50s. And that leads to all the TV shows set in the Wild west and a lot of ideas of American exceptionalism and also family values. If you think about Ronald Reagan, what did he do? He played a cowboy and he wore cowboy boots as a president. And so it cemented the concept of American.

[Avery Trufelman]

They're not family men at all, right?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Cowboys. I know, exactly correct. They're not.

[Avery Trufelman]

So this is not in your book, but you just talked about it. You have done a version of the cowboy boot that you Call the doodle boot. Where did this come from for you?

[Aurora James]

So I also love cowboy boots. I love the history. I really kind of set out to make them. I guess it was in 2019, and we started looking at and talking to a bunch of workshops kind of across the Southern United States. And it was really hard to find a workshop that I kind of wanted to partner with because I didn't feel like there was a lot of value alignment. What do you mean by that? Well, you know, we spend a bunch of money with our. With. With our workshop, so I want to also be a conscious consumer, and I believe that you vote with your dollars. And around that same time, there was also this, like, very annoying man that was talking a lot of trash about Mexico and about Mexican people. And I was like, actually, I think we should make our traditional American cowboy boots in Mexico the way they were traditionally made. Exactly. And so that's when we started making the doodle boot. And that one in the picture was called the My Body, My Choice, Doodle Boo and supported Planned Parenthood.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And, yeah, I wanted to buy that, but I didn't have enough time.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah, I mean, just. Can I ask, because we just talked about how these boots represent, like, traditional American values, American exceptionalism, Ronald Reagan, Westerns. What initially attracted you to cowboy boots? What did you see in them?

[Aurora James]

The idea of, like, inverting some of that, you know, because I think there are a lot of things it's like my mom would say about the high heel. Right. Like, she would say, oh, you know, that was usually used as a tool to stop women from running away. Like, what are you going to do to help them Run further now with that same thing. And so I've thought about that in my work often. Like, how can we take symbols or ideas that have kind of conventionally maybe not been for us and really make them for us.

[Avery Trufelman]

So Anna Wintour once turned to you and asked you if you wanted to be a designer or you wanted to be an activist. What did you tell her?

[Aurora James]

I said that respectfully. I thought I could be both.

[Avery Trufelman]

Why do you say that?

[Aurora James]

Because I think. I think that design is an incredibly powerful tool to wield. And I think by virtue of Brother Veli's going on, to then create, in many ways, the 15% pledge. I did become both.

[Avery Trufelman]

And quick. Yeah. Wait, what is the 15% pledge?

[Aurora James]

Oh, well, the 15% pledge was something I launched on social Media Initially in 2020, in the wake of George Floyd's murder, which was a call to action for major corporations to commit 15% of their shelf space to black owned brands.

[Avery Trufelman]

And why 15%?

[Aurora James]

Because that's roughly the population of black Americans. And now I'm very proud to say it's one of the fastest growing nonprofits in America. And we are in the process of reallocating over $14 billion of annual revenue to black owned businesses across the country. Thanks, guys.

[Avery Trufelman]

Thank you so much.

[Aurora James]

Thank you, Elizabeth. Thank you, Avery. Thank you, guys. You're awake. It's a Friday night.

[Avery Trufelman]

Thank you so much to everyone who came out. And thanks to everyone at the Bada Shoe Museum. I love that place. Thanks also to Will Denovy, Desiree de Lima and Crystal McDonnell at Hot Docs. Thanks to Sarah Espedito at Brother Vellies, Shona Cook at Penguin Random House. Aurora James book is called Wild Flower. It is candid, but that's why I.

[Aurora James]

Wrote the book, because I was like, if you can just rip off the band aid, it's like, am I gonna spend my whole career, like, worried that someone's gonna find out that I went to jail once? No, let's just read the book.

[Avery Trufelman]

I'll have a link to Aurora's book and images of all the shoes that we Talked [e-mail].

[Aurora James]

Painted on the things we love. Radiotopia.

[Avery Trufelman]

From PRX.