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Artificial Intelligence Podcast: ChatGPT, Claude, Midjourney and all other AI Tools
Is AI Changing the World of Website Building with Pedro Sostre
00:45:25
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- [00:00]
Pedro Sostre
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Jonathan
Changing the world of website building. And we have an amazing special guest today with Pedro Sostre. Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast where we make AI simple, practical and accessible for small business owners and leaders. Forget the complicated tech talk or expensive consultants. This is where you'll learn how to implement AI strategies that are easy to understand and can make a big impact for your business. The Artificial Intelligence Podcast is brought to you by Fraction aio, the trusted partner for AI Digital Transformation. At Fraction aio, we help small and medium sized businesses boost revenue by eliminating time wasting non revenue generating tasks that frustrate your team. With our custom AI bots, tools and automations, we make it easy to shift your team's focus to the tasks that matter most, driving growth and results. We guide you through a smooth, seamless transition to AI, ensuring you avoid costly mistakes and invest in the tools that truly deliver value. Don't get left behind. Let Fraction AI help you stay ahead in today's AI driven world. Learn more and get started. Fractionaio.com Pedro I really appreciate you making the time. I think a lot of people really envision AI as taking over the web and we see it happening a lot in social media and I think that there's this kind of gap between the promise of how easy it is to use AI and the actual experience. We've seen just a plethora of these tools promising, like AI website builders and I tested so many of them and they're all so far from the promise. They're all either a slot machine where it runs through five or six templates, or it really just uses like stock image photos or they just can't quite do what people are envisioning. And I think the challenge is, as every designer has ever is, where the person goes, I know it when I see it. Like I don't know what I want, but I know it when I see it. And at builderall, which has been around for a long time and well before the AI generation, you have this kind of foundation and I'm really curious what people are expecting from AI. What's possible with website design with AI these days?
- [02:10]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah, the issue is that everybody's got a different expectation. You've got people who've been using it for a long time, like yourself, that they know if they plug it in and it's roll, like you said, slot machine or a dice roll. Sometimes you get something that looks good, sometimes it looks like a little bit of a mess. And then there's other people who don't really know what's going on and they've heard the news and they think they're going to get this amazing result. The truth is, and this interview probably won't age well because I imagine two years from now it's going to be much, much different. But the reality is anybody who's been in marketing and digital marketing for any amount of time is looking at all this slop that's being created by AI and they're extremely like disappointed and concerned for the future. Because all these websites, even if they get them to look pretty, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to sell. And you've got all these new business owners or new startup founders who are putting these things out there and then wondering why they're not getting results and they're not getting leads and they're not getting sales. And it's because there's really no strategy behind this AI produced generation. Now, you do get good strategy in other AIs, right? ChatGPT is actually pretty good if you tune it properly and you prompt it well at giving you strategy. But that connection really hasn't been brought to website generation where you've got a strategic component and a visual component and a coding component all working together. So right now people are expecting all sorts of different things and the reality is they're generally getting junk, even if it looks good.
- [03:42]
Jonathan
Yeah, I think that I noticed there's this really big gap between the copywriting and the website design. And people, for some reason they think that there's copywriting doesn't apply to websites or it's like it comes as part of the design. And my favorite is when people talk about catalogs and oh, catalog. It just wants to be like a catalog. I'm like, have you ever seen the sky catalog? That's the most copywritten thing you've ever seen. If your product doesn't sell well, they kick you out after the first month. It's so high copy. It's not describing anything. It's everything is sales. And I think it's exactly that people don't realize the different steps in the process, that there's the strategy, which is who are you trying to sell to? What is the goal you want? What's the results of your website? Because the design dramatically changes if you're trying to generate phone calls versus capture email addresses versus sell something on the first visit or sell something later. And these critical questions get skipped. You go in and you say, what type of business do you have? And it's not the same. There's 50 types of house Painters, right? You can be somebody who paints the outside, the inside. Big houses, small houses, everyone has their specialty in their respects. And I think this is really critical to get into, which is like you can use different AIs for each step and then at the end start to get a good result. But I think the big. My experience is the biggest problem people have with AI, if they try to use it something where they don't know if it's good or bad, that's where you get the slop. If someone has no idea if a good or bad website or website, they convert. So same thing when someone just makes an AI video, they've never made a video before, an ad before, and they go, this is just like a commercial. And I think Pixar is going to be fine. It's exactly that. Lack of expertise and how do we help people educate that there's a process to it. Like people either want it to be super easy, I push one button, get the perfect website, now I'm a millionaire, or they want to go to college for four years and there's no middle.
- [05:36]
Pedro Sostre
The reality is, even as the tools get better, the market competition is going to get better, right? So the people who are getting really good at doing this today, even though the AI tools are going to catch up, what did I say two years from now, it could be six months from now, who knows? But even though the tools are going to catch up to what, what good marketers are doing today, maybe in six months or two years, those good marketers today are already going to be doing the next level thing. So it's, it doesn't negate anybody's skill or ability today as long as they continue to innovate with AI. I think AI is just. I explain this all the time because some people are like, oh, I'm not going to use AI. It's, it's bad and it's wrong. It's just like a. When computers came out, okay, like, I'm old enough that I went to school, when I went to college, we didn't use computers. We had a computer lab that sometimes people would go to for a project, but almost everything else was done by hand. And some people were like, oh, I don't want to use computers. And I went to art school, by the way. So they're like, oh, I'm an artist and I'm doing. And I was in a graphic design, a visual communications program, and they were like, I'm an artist and so I need the art to be with my hands. No, if you're not using computers in the early 90s, you're not going to survive. I think AI is the same thing people think it's society goes through this thing all the time. You go probably back to the industrial revolution in cars. There was people, I'm not going to use cars, I'm going to keep my horse. That's the same thing. Today, AI is a tool and it can get you somewhere faster, but you've got to know how to use it. And then as you're late to the game and learning how to use it, then the people who got there first are now going to know how to use it that much better, even though the tools are going to get better. So with all that said, the tools are going to get good enough that in two years they're going to produce something that has strategy behind it and has this. But then the people today are just going to be that much better and your competition is going to be that much more fierce.
- [07:27]
Jonathan
I think there's this perspective for a lot of people that using AI is cheating in some way. That it's like it's not authentic. And I've seen this in a lot of areas in life. I had this friend who was a really elite fighter pilot, but he would never, he would go out, talk, he would never tell a woman that he's, that's cheating. I was like, no, it's cheating if you're not a fighter pilot. That's the difference. It's not true. But we create these rules in our head and using AI and certainly there are ways in school to use AI for cheating if it's specifically against the rules. But I think that the other problem is that we judge tools by their worst use cases. You're on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn. Most of what you post on LinkedIn is AI slob. It really bothers me when someone who follows me posts a really low quality AI image because I think it reflects on me because I have free tutorials on how to make a nice looking image. I'm like, don't use the first image it makes, please, because people are going to think it's my fault. And that's what we see is the really bad stuff or we see the worst examples and then we think, oh, it's all like that. And that's what we start to assume is, I think that's where part of the perspective comes from. Because the most broad uses are usually the lowest quality uses and that's the distraction. Like I follow someone who's been like a filmmaker for 20 years, and when he makes an AI video, it looks so good. I could never accomplish that, even if I put in 10 times the hours, because he has this. It's a skill he spent 20 years developing. And I think that when you see someone really good versus someone really amateur, you can start to see AI gives you a leg up, but there's still an effort element that's I think, hopefully will help people rise. It's not cheating, and it's inevitable. That's the other element. I think it's like computer. Everyone has a computer. Everyone has a mobile phone. Everyone does Google searches now. And we see this in school. Like, calculators were considered cheating in the 70s. And when I went to school, they were like, you have to have a specific graphing calculator. You can't even take the exam. And then we saw it with laptops and with computers and with Google. And now I think we'll see with AI, where two years ago was cheating. And in five years they'd be like, oh, if you don't know how to use ChatGPT, you can't even go to college. It's going to have that transition of expectation. How can people mix their expertise, their existing expertise, with starting to find tools that can actually help them with their job? Because I feel like most people either don't use AI or they're using it for the same thing. They used to ask their friend, and then they ask Google, which is like, where's the nearest restaurant? Like that are my friends who use it for restaurant advice, which is wild. I'm like, he can't eat it, doesn't.
- [09:52]
Pedro Sostre
Know it's just pulling Reddit or whatever.
- [09:56]
Jonathan
Yeah. So how can people. And how do you see people starting to use tools in a way that actually grows their business?
- [10:05]
Pedro Sostre
So I love that you use the calculator example. That was in my back pocket. I was going to say it and then you said it. I think people still need to learn basic math. Right. And the calculator does help, but if you don't know basic math, you're just not like a functional human being. And I think the same goes for, like you mentioned students in college. If you're using AI to write all your essays for you and you never learn how to write, you're in trouble. Like, you have to learn the basics. And the problem is, for those people, I think they need to start to understand that there's a craft that needs to be learned. Just like in, you've got to learn basic arithmetic. How do you add, how do you subtract? What does division mean? You've got to learn those things in writing. Nowadays, when you look at what's happening with content, they're using AI to help their business. But they've also made it a point to understand what are the fundamentals behind storytelling, what's the fundamentals of, like, human psychology, and what gets them hooked into watching a particular piece of content. So now, instead of having to learn all the ins and outs of grammar and spelling, they're actually, like learning things that are a bit higher level but still influential in that same arena. And I think anything that you do on AI can be influential if you're understanding what's the human part of this. I've got to bring into it so that you hit it. You hit the nail on the head earlier, like, how do I know if this is good? I think that's something that. When I went to college, I went to art school. It's actually a big deal because, you know, the concept of, like, art being very subjective. It's. But once in a while there's a photo and everybody looks at that photo and you're like, wow, that's incredible. But half the time you're looking at things, you're like, I don't know, is this good? Is this not good? And the teacher says, yeah, this is really good and this is bad. And then you're trying to figure out why it's good and what. So I think in order for us to use AI effectively for any use case, although I do think it's. It has the capability to be good in copywriting, in strategy, in planning for those types of things, because it uses that sort of collective data to make those things. But you need to educate yourself on what are the proper fundamentals for success in this space. And I think, honestly, what the time that we've freed up from spending 30 hours writing an essay, you should spend 20 of those hours reading a book on how to write good essays or what makes a good essay, and then generate the essay and take what you learned from that book and apply it. Okay, is this good? Does it follow what I learned in this, in this thing? I read about what it makes a good essay. And I think. But I think the applications are almost limitless for what you should be doing or could be doing. I think every function, whether you're, Whether you're a therapist, whether you're a programmer, whether you're a roofer, the applications for how you should be using AI are only, like, limited by your imagination. And that's not, I don't think I'm being dramatic. Like I know a company, a roofing company that just implemented an AI model to analyze all the images of the roof roofs from inspections. Because the AI can catch things in inspections from those visuals that the human couldn't catch. So I think it's just a matter of really understanding your craft or your business or your, or what success means and then utilizing every tool that you can in your power after.
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Jonathan
I'm glad you brought the roofing example because there's a lot of people who work in physical fields or they don't work in tech fields and they think this isn't relevant to me. And you'd be hard pressed to find a plumber without a website these days. Everyone has some type of web presence and it's just there was a delay between that where people go, I don't need a website. I'm this type of business now. Every restaurant has one, every type of business. And I think it's really an opportunity for people in unexpected areas. Just like you brought through, for example, you think, you know what, I can use AI in a way that's really useful and it gives you an edge because people think it's not for them. And I think that's really the critical lesson is that we're not going to be replaced by AIs, we're going to be replaced by people who are better at AI than us. And that's what you want to look by. And I think that there's this big fear that I hear from a lot of people, which is there's this steep learning curve. And it's like compared to other tech tools, the learning curve for AI is so much shorter. You can really get pretty good in one day. If you want to learn how to edit videos, that's two years, four years, right? It's such a hard skill with a lot of people. There's this fear for people that are more employees rather than leaders. They're thinking, I don't want to train my replacement. If I build an automation. And this is what I hear from a lot of clients. They go, don't make the automation so good that I become obsolete. I hear this every project I work on and I never approach with that mindset. I'm not here to get rid of people. And especially I'm like, if you have people coming into the office, do not fire them. Because it's so hard to get people to come to the office. You have treasures, like, treasure them. But there's this Fear, oh, if I master AI, then the AI is going to learn all my secrets and then it's going to replace me.
- [15:15]
Pedro Sostre
So I like your plumber example, right? There was a time when the plumbers weren't doing websites and now all the plumbers have websites, right? This is a good example of like how the space is just going to keep adopting. So before the plumbers who first got their websites, they started to win in that field and now the other plumbers started to get websites as well. Now everybody has a website. However, in the next three to five years, the plumbers that win are the ones who not only have websites, but they have the ability to book your visit online and pay for that first visit and see the pricing. Because now that's easy to do. Right now you can easily have a booking calendar that has a built in payment system and all. And then it's going to automatically deploy to the plumber because the people who just have a website anymore, they're going to become obsolete. And that's what I mean by like in two years from now, even though the AI is better, it hasn't caught up to whatever the best in practice is at that time. Now people who are looking to train, it's the same exact thing. Whatever you're training it on today, you want it to replace your job today because your job needs to be different in two years. I think that's really the message that everybody needs to understand. Whatever you think you have secure job security in today is probably not going to exist in, in, in two years, maybe three years, maybe five years if you're lucky. But you're going to be doing something that's more advanced and has more impact potentially than what you're doing now. So it's a good thing. You should be excited about this idea that all the junk work I used to do no longer exists and now I'm working again. Same thing with, we're talking about grammar and spelling. Before they were so focused on did I get my comma in the right place, did I get my spelling right? Now you can focus on the bigger picture of the story. Wait a minute, is this story actually flowing in the right way and am I making the argument I'm trying to make? You don't have to worry about the little details anymore and you can think of the bigger picture. It's the same thing in AI Train it to do what you do now because you should be doing something different in three years.
- [17:14]
Jonathan
So much of the content of the Internet now is written by AI that was trained on the Internet. And then the next generation of AI is getting trained on that. And we're starting to see this cycle of like, lower quality social media posts. And a lot of people struggle with how do I stand out and how do I catch attention when my competition is posting 50 times a day. I can't keep up with that unless I use AI. And then my content drops in quality and becomes super broad. And we're starting to see this cycle, whether you call it dead Internet theory or AI slop. Like, these are terms flying around. And it used to be like, did you VA write that? And now it's did AI write that? Just switch, just the accusation. Did you Write this with ChatGPT? Like it's a bad thing? Yes. How do you see an opportunity for businesses to stand out or to get noticed when everyone else is doing that?
- [18:06]
Pedro Sostre
Like you said, there was a VA. There was VAs before there was content farms, before you could hire a team overseas of 500 people to just create 500 articles a day. And they were junk, but they were giving you SEO that's always existed. Now, it maybe didn't exist at the exponential level that it does now, but I think even more so, like, you're going to have that moment. It's like when, for those old enough to remember blogger, before WordPress became a thing, like Blogger came out. And before that, I was blogging before Blogger existed. And yeah, I had a nice golden era where there weren't that many people creating content and I enjoyed the fruits of my labor. And then these platforms came out that allowed anyone to blog. And all of a sudden the web was full and I had to now change my strategy. I think we are living in a time where you can't just rest on what you know today or what's working today. You constantly have to be adapting to what's coming. And this is just another one of those waves. It's a wave that's going to come some. There's going to be some filter that's. That quickly starts to say, okay, you know what? This is how we filter the junk. Right in the. Be in the. Back in the day, it was like Google's pagering, right? PageRank said, okay, we know there's a jillion pages out there, but we're only going to do the ones that have quality links pointing in. Because that's how we determine that humans think this content is good. So there will be a version of Page Rank that sort of nullifies this influx of junk content. And we probably don't See it yet, but it'll come. Right. So you've got to ride this wave out. But in the meantime, you should be thinking, how do I make my content as good as possible and how do I stand out from the crowd? And that's something that everyone that is of working age or younger today is going to be dealing with for the next 10 years. 20 years.
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Jonathan
Yeah. I think it's so funny about Blogger because that's how I started. I started off on blogger in 2007. I was there for three years. And when I started, I didn't know other people could find your blog.
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Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
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Jonathan
Until I was ranking for a bunch of keywords.
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Pedro Sostre
Yes.
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Jonathan
And I was like, you find this because I turned on. They go, oh, turn on the traffic thing. I was like, traffic thing. And it was like, you're getting tons of visitors a day. It was such a surprise for me because I thought it was like a private diary just on a website. And it. Then I transformed into a business. And you're exactly right, because it's almost impossible now to launch like a personal blog where people just read your story. Those basically exist. And where that's was. And then we had that generation and even some people that got movies made out of their blogs. Right. Oh, I wrote a blog about trying to make every French dish and now I have a movie that would never happen because we've shifted. And you're exactly right that the. There's this perspective that cheating works and it does in a short term. Right. Like we've all seen the website that cheats the Google album ranks for a little while. I see it on Amazon sometimes, but eventually you get caught. Like, the idea that you can create content with AI that Google doesn't know is insane. Their AI detection budget is like a trillion dollars. Your trick Google. No one's trick Google budget is the same detection budget.
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Pedro Sostre
Right.
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Jonathan
So the. I think you're exactly right that in the long term, what will rise to the top is interesting and quality. And that's what always happens is that there's this chasing of virality which is very interesting. I had a friend who had a post go viral on Reddit and he didn't do anything for me. And I had a post go viral on LinkedIn. I get 400,000 views and it got me 13 new followers. That's the worst ratio you could ever have. And yeah, the problem with virality is that for something to go viral, a lot of people who would never become your customer have to like the content, which means your actual customers have to barely notice it. So it actually attracts the wrong people and dilutes your business. And we chase this form of popularity that's like from high school thinking, Well, I need 10,000 people. And it's, would you rather have 10,000 people or 100 customers? And when you start to dial into who you want to be talking to, it's very different. Like, my content changed dramatically when I realized who my customer is. And what they were interested in was not hype. They're interested in, like, how can I do large scale projects that move the needle 1 percentage point, 2 percentage points. Because at scale, that's what matters. And for a smaller business to stand out, like, you just have to have that level of authenticity, which I think is almost ephemeral for many people. What does it mean to be authentic? It's like that dating advice, be yourself. It's like, be myself with working, I wouldn't be myself. I wouldn't be asking for advice.
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Pedro Sostre
Right.
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Jonathan
And it's so tricky to find authenticity. But I think my definition of say what you actually think, I, I went to college, I got a master's. Don't use any of it. I'm not. I have a pretty firm. For most people, college is not the right decision for 90%. If you want to be a doctor.
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Pedro Sostre
Yes. Right.
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Jonathan
That's like a strong stance I take. And not everyone agrees with me, but okay. Jonathan stands for something. Like, we're so afraid to have a strong opinion that we become forgettable. And I think that to me is the most important thing. Like, I work with people that I disagree with dramatically, but I know where they stand and it makes it easier. Whereas if someone like always agrees with you, you're like, we should do a. And they go, yeah, you actually think we should be. And then they agree with you. Again, you go, you don't actually believe anything, so what's the point? And it's scary to have a strong opinion because there will be people who disagree with you. I guarantee you I'm going to get comments because I said the college thing I always do. Whenever I bring it up, it's a guarantee that I get negative comments. But it's just based on my experience and based on the cost. Like college now costs some people quarter million dollars, half a million. That's a major investment. That's a huge amount of money. So that's where my perspective comes from. But there's this desire to sound like everyone else that I think is really damaging to businesses. I think this is the mistake of a. Which is if Everyone else has the same tool, then everyone else has the same playing field. Stand out. Like, I was one of the first person to have an AI image of myself on LinkedIn. And when I noticed everyone else is doing, I go, I can eat. Got to switch back.
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Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
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Jonathan
Because then it's not interesting anymore. And that's the lesson I try to express, which is do what everyone else isn't doing, see what's working, and then be a little bit different so you get noticed and have some identity. Because if you're exact like everyone else, you're forgettable.
- [24:19]
Pedro Sostre
I think I agree. And I'll add on that I think there's a slight complexity now. There's a book, a pretty famous book called, I think it's called Salt, Sugar, Fat. And it's about how at some point the big. I think it's like the big three food companies got together and started doing studies on what amounts of salt and sugar and fat in foods created addiction. Right. And they were able to continue dominating sort of the food space, not to the benefit of the consumer, but to the benefit of themselves by creating addictions around. Around their product, through. By understanding the science behind it. And I think that's happening as well. Not. I think. I know it's happening as well. Now in the social media and content space, you look at a lot of these shows that are being made for kids. And I've seen they're actually, when they create these shows, what they do is they do these. They study it, right? Where they put the show in front of a child, it could be like a toddler. And then they put the child's parent next to the television, right. And every time the kid looks away from the TV to the parent, they flag it so that they can do something at that moment in the show to make a sound effect happen or something pop up. And what they're learning is how to create addiction, right? How to create addiction. And this is not to the benefit of the consumer. And people are becoming addicted. We know that's a thing, right. People are becoming addicted to social media and not necessarily to their benefit in any way, shape or form, but if you are a creator, yes, I think you need to be authentic. And yes, I think you need to say what you need to say. And yes, I think virality isn't the goal, but it does feel like you're. Like you're punching against the wind when you are putting stuff out there that's really good. And people are still watching this junk that's designed. If you're Making really great health food, but people are still eating the Doritos. It's like, you've got to now think about. There is now some science and some studies behind this. And so maybe you've got to think about, how do I incorporate that without. Without kind of sacrifice. I think it's like the music in it. We've heard about this in the music industry for a long time. Like musicians, there's a way to make pop music that is formulaic and it's going to be successful. And there's musicians, like, I don't want to do that. I just want to do my music. But then they're watching all these pop stars become rich and famous, and they're still just playing in a lounge, and that might be okay, but I think there's people who just keep looking at those pop stars and they're like, man, I'm ready to sell out. What do I need to do? What do I need? How do I get there? And I think it's understanding what that balance is for each individual person. How much are you willing to sell out and play with the algorithm and game the system before it's no longer authentically you? But you are fighting against a stacked deck. You've got Mr. Beast out there who knows exactly how to pull the levers on people. You've got Cocomelon that's programming our kids to every two seconds be distracted by something. And. And I think those realities exist. And if you're trying to make a mark in marketing or in content, you've got to be aware of those and start to understand that there is a craft behind content creation and virality. And what does that mean for you?
- [27:37]
Jonathan
Yeah, it's such a good point because you can start to feel like it's inauthentic to create backlinks or it's inauthentic to reach out to people. And there is that balance. You have to decide how, what do I want and what am I willing to do? And I think that we have this problem in our culture where we think everyone's an overnight success. Yeah. If you don't count the first 10 years. Like, we see examples where it's like a band's fifth album and, like, overnight success. I'm like, five albums. That's 10 years. Like, even Nick, they were like a cover band for, like 10 years. And people like, overnight success. I was like, cover band is tough. They were doing weddings for 10 years, and we don't count that. And even Taylor Swift or all these really big stars, she didn't break out the gate like she was putting in a lot. She was playing guitar for a long time. Every single person puts in a lot of hours and I see this. There's someone I follow who has these amazing. You. He gets these amazing interviews with music producers who you've never heard of. But then I made all these songs, they're really hits.
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Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
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Jonathan
And he was talking the other day and he goes I made 3,000 videos before one hit.
- [28:41]
Pedro Sostre
Wow.
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Jonathan
And you're like, you don't. We have this problem where we discount the grind element. We challenge. We want it to work on the first try.
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Pedro Sostre
Like your first.
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Jonathan
Like I launched a new YouTube channel with my wife last week. Our first video got 30 views and I was like this is awesome. Because we didn't. You know what I mean? And we already have four hours of watch time in the first week and we're building something and people think oh you don't have a thousand. Yeah, of course it's hard.
- [29:07]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
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Jonathan
We're still figuring out which is like what are the visuals going to be? Like what is. We're tweaking different elements and putting in opinions and it's like there's this process to it that is so important and while AI can help you iterate, you still have to. There's still an element, effort, an element to it of figuring out what exactly is going to work for me. And as someone I've written so many books. I've written almost 300 books, maybe it's more than 300 now. And the book that's my favorite book, my audience hates, I put the most to it. And the book that like I think is my worst is my most popular. And it's very important to remember that it's a democracy. Your customers get a vote and you never know what people are going to or not. Like I'm wrong so often.
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Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
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Jonathan
About what people are going to like about my content or what type of questions people are going to have. I used to do this thing when I was single. This is in my long time ago where I would. Before I call a girl I would write down all my questions and what her answers could be. So I'd be. Which are huge. Just how much of a nerd I am.
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Pedro Sostre
This tells a lot about your personality type. Yeah.
- [30:08]
Jonathan
This tells you exactly everything. I still do it. I was literally drawing one out for a project I'm doing right now. I write everything out by hand. This before I do automations never. They never answer the first question with one of the choices on the sheet. I'd ask a question, they'd say something different. I'll never forget it. Called a girl. And I go, hey, it's Jonathan. We met the other day. So good to talk. She goes, I'm in the car right now, I can't talk. And I go, it's not on the sheet.
- [30:33]
Pedro Sostre
I don't.
- [30:35]
Jonathan
Disaster. I never saw her again. And it's like this unpredictability is really scary. And there's this other area that I see where people are afraid to talk to each other now. Like they're afraid to get on the phone. They won't call to order a pizza because the person might judge them or all of these things. And we're losing this ability to communicate. This is the other area. Worry about AI where people, like, I've seen this thing where they say, oh, you can practice with an AI girlfriend before you have a real girlfriend. I'm like, yeah, tell her that. Tell a real girl. Or if it was an AI and see how much it helps you like. It doesn't help. The only way to learn, like, I've been married for a long time. My wife surprised me every single day. I never know what she's going to say. And then predictability is what makes it exciting. AI is not unpredictable in that way. It's always going to agree with you.
- [31:18]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
- [31:19]
Jonathan
Not my marriage. That's not my experience. We.
- [31:23]
Pedro Sostre
And it's always super encouraging too.
- [31:25]
Jonathan
Right.
- [31:25]
Pedro Sostre
Everything you say, it's, wow, that's such a great idea. You did such a good job. I don't know why they programmed it this way. I bet they programmed this way because they did addiction studies. Right. What gets people to be is wait. If you agree with everything the person says and you tell them how great they are, they're going to engage more. I guarantee it. Because AI is the most agreeable, complimentary conversation you have.
- [31:51]
Jonathan
And yeah, it's so funny. That's what I hate about it the most. Like, I never want my AI to have a voice. I don't like that they have a version where it's like pretends it's breathing. I don't like any of that. I want it to be a. Be impersonal. I don't want empathy. Don't.
- [32:05]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
- [32:06]
Jonathan
Create like rapport with me. I don't want to have a parasocial relationship.
- [32:10]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
- [32:10]
Jonathan
Because I'm just famous enough that I've been on both sides. It like I'm very famous to about 10 to 20,000 people. And everyone else in the world. No one knows who I am. So I've had both ends of it where it's like every once in a while someone will recognize me and my wife is like, what is happening here? Because it's, it doesn't happen enough that it's like frequent. And I don't want to create that with an AI. And I think that's the worst part of it. Exactly. The addiction element, the empathy element. Like people are marrying their AIs now and all that stuff. No, thank you. That's not a world I want to live in.
- [32:37]
Pedro Sostre
That's crazy.
- [32:38]
Jonathan
Drones. I don't like robot vacuums. As much as I'm into technology. I also hate a lot of technology. But just to pull it back because this has been so valuable just to think how can people, from your experience, because you have such a large customer base and some people you have all of this data when you're seeing where are people getting stuck with AI or what's the thing where they get caught up in their head and how can they break through? Because my first stick, I'll use my mind first. I was afraid that AI would judge me. I was like, I don't want it to think I'm stupid. This is my big blog. So it took me a while to break through that. Start using AI and going, you know what, I'll just accept it. If it just puts me on the dumb list, I'll accept it. But I need to learn this tool that was my first barrier about five years ago.
- [33:21]
Pedro Sostre
So we've got, now we've got a very specific customer base, right? We have tens of thousands of customers, but they're basically like mostly small business owners in Spanish and Portuguese speaking latam. And in the US we have about 20% of our customers in the US and they're English speaking. But if you look at them, they're also generally like a Spanish heritage. So what I see in that, so I can speak to that market specifically is that they don't want to have to learn AI. They don't want to, they don't want to try to figure out what prompting works and they don't want to do any extra work to do that. They're already swamped. Like they're all running businesses and they're already swamped as it is running their business. So all the tools that we've built that have been successful are really like very point based and the all the prompting is pre programmed in the back end so that they can come in and just use the most basic language, write copy for my about page. Right now, they rely on us on our platform to take the context of that. Right. We already know their business, we know their website, we know what their logo looks like, we know all these things. So we've got to now engineer on the back end what the prompt is in order to create the about page for them. Right. So that's what we're seeing. Nope. From our customer base, they don't want to learn AI. They're not. They don't want to. We have agencies and the agency clients are looking to become more proficient because they understand that's what people ask for. But the small business clients, they're like, look, I just want this thing to make my web page for me and I want you to make it easy because I don't want to be an expert in AI. And for the 80, 85% of our customers that are running their businesses, they want to use it that way. And that's what we see the most common use case. They don't want to prompt, they don't want to learn, they don't want to take a course, they just want to, in context with whatever they're doing, use it to speed up so they don't have to think about what to write or think about what design they want or think about whatever. And that's what I think seems to be working. Now, the effectiveness is up to us, right. When we build the platform, we have to build it in a way that the output at the end is effective because we're a marketing platform. So if they don't get any leads, then they think it didn't work. Right. So it's really on the company. I think that's what's going to happen for most of the society. Right. The tools, the Geminis, the, the Grox, they're going to just integrate themselves in a way that people don't have to learn prompting anymore. They're just going to interact naturally and they're going to get something out of it because it's content, it's so contextualized that it's going to know what they want already. And I think that's the real race is everybody's trying to, you know, Google knows a lot about us, meta knows a lot about us, Twitter knows a lot about people who use Twitter or X Grok, whatever. And I think they're all racing to see who can own as much user data so that AI can just be contextually right all the time without having to require anything from the user.
- [36:22]
Jonathan
Yeah, I see so many AI startups that are too Technical. And they fall into that. And this is. I. Early on, this is what I thought, because I saw a lot of content that were like. I remember the first time I. Someone had a prompting template and they'd use a smaller font to get it fit on a single PDF. And I was like, that's when, you know, it's really hard. It was like, they're like, learning to prompt is just like learning Portuguese. And I was like, that's hard.
- [36:47]
Pedro Sostre
It's really hard.
- [36:48]
Jonathan
Learning a new language is hard. What are you talking about? And there's this push for complexity. And as I started working with more and more clients, I realized, just like you said, it's like the microwave. Nobody knows how microwave works. Put in something cold, you push a button and you eat it.
- [37:00]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Jonathan
What happens in the middle? No one's really sure. And that's exactly. There's nobody now who says, I'm a master of word, I'm an expert at word. We just use. It does what you want. It puts the letters in the right place and it tells you something's misspelled. That's all you really care about. And I think that you're exactly dialed in. People just want it to do the result, to get them somewhere faster where instead of trying to write the about page, they could just read it and go, oh, tweak this, tweak that. And the more accurate is. And that's really, I think, what's going to separate the companies that last and those that don't. Because people do not care which AI they're using. They don't care if the backend is Grok or Deep SEQ or chatgpt or. They only care if it works.
- [37:43]
Pedro Sostre
There was a time when, like, Google search queries were prompted where you would. You were taught, like, okay, when you search on Google, you can use, like, negative flags and you use your location and you type A and there was like a whole format for how to do a proper Google search query. Nobody knows that today. Nobody bothers with that, because now Google already knows your location. They know who you are, and they're going to just figure out what's the best thing for you, and we trust them. But in the beginning, there was the equivalent of prompting for Google search queries that anybody who's under 40 years old probably doesn't even remember because it disappeared. I think it's going to be the same thing, the idea of prompting. Unless you're an AI engineer, the idea of prompting I don't think is going to matter to the generation Alphas by the time they grow up, because it's not going to matter. The AI is going to already know all the context behind it.
- [38:34]
Jonathan
That's such a good point. Like, I learned Boolean search in high school and that doesn't exist anymore. And, or this and that and the commas and like putting quotes around two words so it shoots the two words as the term. None of that matters anymore. But you spent so much time learning that and it's, that's really dialed in. So I think a lot of people are waiting for the right moment because they're distracted by the bad stuff they see so much of. What I mean, I only basically do LinkedIn. Like, I certainly don't. I have a Twitter account, never use it like most people, but I see some, most of the content I see on LinkedIn unless I'm curating, it's like, it is depressing. It's like everyone's posting generic stuff. It's not interesting. And it can lead people to think, this is what everyone else is doing, this is what I should do. And I think that's why we see always a short term race to the bottom until you see the sweep where they start blocking AI content. And different tools are trying to add that option. Like on Pinterest, you can click a thing like saying, how much AI slop do you want to see? And it's like there's a slider. None for sure. That's an easy question to answer and we're going to see more. Each platform's kind of handling it in a different way of how much, how they're handling it. And I think the thing for small businesses and especially for entrepreneurs who are like feeling this desire to chase that ring, is that you want to use tools strategically, that you want to think, how can this help me do what I'm already good at faster. The place where you should start, what are the things they have to do they don't have time to do? Great. Have AI help me with that. I don't have time to do my website, I don't have time to write my terms and conditions. That's a great thing to have AI help you with because you have to have them comes up. For me, my terms, conditions come up every time there's a chargeback or anything. I always have to send them in. It's a whole thing. So you do need to have them. But it's once you have that, like you don't like the ability to do those things. Or when I get a contract, I can have it look at the contract and tell me these are the sections to be worried about and help you get that perspective, like when you start to use it strategically. And this is such a critical lesson. Like whenever someone buys a tool and then they decide about this tool, now what am I going to do with it? You always end up making a mistake. But instead, if you approach it, I have a problem. Let me find the tool, they can solve it. I want to cook food fast. I'll buy a microwave. For people who are small business owners, they're interested in your type of tools, whether they're Latin American descent or not. I've certainly used builderall in the past. I'm very interested in kind of a lot of the changes you've made over the last two years. So can you tell people a little bit about where you are now and where the future is and how they can check things out to see the amazing stuff you guys are doing over there?
- [41:06]
Pedro Sostre
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that opportunity. Well, we announced most recently, I think that had the biggest impact in our user experience is what we call builds. And so it's the idea that, like, if you're a course creator or you're an agency or you're a realtor, because Our platform has 25 different marketing tools. And it's great if you're an expert marketer because you get in there and you're like, okay, great, I know I want to use this, I want to use this, I want to use this, I want to use this. And then you build out this funnel and then it works. That's really what like successful marketers are doing today, is there's generally a funnel involved. And a funnel just means you've got a landing page that goes to an email list that goes to a check, whatever the whole process, every different niche has like a different marketing funnel that works. So our builds enable people to get in and they don't have to know anything about marketing and they just choose, okay, I have this type of business. And it's going to say, hey, these are the six tools you want to use. Here's the order in which you do them, and here's how they all connect. And since it's all the same platform, you no longer have to go to. A lot of people here might be familiar with Zapier, right? And okay, I got to create an account as Zapier and I've got to get it put an API key so that it connects my. My ad leads to go into mailchimp and then that's going to and it just becomes a nightmare. You spend weeks just doing tech setup because our platform's all in one. All the tools are already talking to each other. So I like that because it's enabled, it cut our churn in half. Our new user churn in half. Because they get in, they see exactly what they need to build, and they're seeing results. Because it's just like having a marketing consultant come in and say, hey, this is what you should do.
- [42:40]
Jonathan
I love that because I think the challenge of having so many tools is that it's really good, but it's also overwhelming because someone comes in and goes, There's 50 tools. Which one do I learn? And I always think about the menu at Cheesecake Factory. It's so long, it has ads in it. Yeah, I love this. We got a bunch of tools. And let me tell you which ones are the right ones for you. Because I tell you this, when I was choosing the camera that I shoot this podcast on, I said to my friend, which camera do you recommend? He goes, so here's three good ones. I go, that's not what I asked you. I don't want more work. Just tell me which one to get right. And that's one budget question. I go, this is how much I want to spend. He goes, and get this one. And I love that because it's very overwhelming for someone to go, even to know which. How often should I email or which social media platform should I target or what type of pricing. Like, people, sometimes people don't understand that I don't do E commerce. I do direct sales, which means I don't do add to cart. It just says buy. Like I have one offer on one page opposed to multiple that you buy at once. Like that to me is the difference between E commerce and direct. And that's a really critical question because for different. Just that one little thing. And it's, if I had all my courses on one page and said add to cart, my sales would drop through the floor, kill my business. Because my industry, everyone buys differently in different markets. So just knowing that one small thing. So I love the F built. I love a lot of the change you're making. That's why I'm so excited to be on the show today. And I really appreciate your time because I think this would be really valuable for a lot of our listeners or thinking about what type of tools should I do and how should I start choosing which tools use and how I should position my business. Because I see so many AI startups that think the complexity is what matters. But how many movies that were really hard to make? Does no one care? Yeah, it doesn't matter. People only care about ease of use and the result. And it doesn't matter hard you work on a product. If it doesn't work on the first try, people never forgive you. So I love the things you're doing and have been revolutionizing a product. AT has been around for a while. You found that next generation and saw many amazing things. So I really appreciate you being here. Again guys, let's builderall. I'll put below in the show notes and below the video because this is a really cool product and I really love how they're revolutionizing it and so many amazing things. So thank you again for being here. Pedro it's been an amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss another episode. We'll be back next Monday with more subscrib tips and strategies on how to leverage AI to grow your business and achieve better results. In the meantime, if you're curious about how AI can boost your business's revenue, head over to artificialintelligencepod.com calculator use our AI revenue calculator to discover the potential impact AI can have on your bottom line. It's quick, easy, and might just change the way you think about your business. While you're there, catch up on past episodes, leave a review, and check out our socials.