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Artificial Intelligence Podcast: ChatGPT, Claude, Midjourney and all other AI Tools
There's Never Been a Better Time to Get into Tech with Luke Jarych
00:30:28
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A
There's never been a better time to get into tech and we're going to talk about with today's amazing special guest, Luke.
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B
Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast where we make AI simple, practical and accessible for small business owners and leaders. Forget the complicated tech talk or expensive consultants. This is where you'll learn how to implement AI strategies that are easy to understand and can make a big impact for your business. The Artificial Intelligence Podcast is brought to you by Fraction aio, the trusted partner for AI Digital Transformation. At Fraction aio, we help small and medium sized businesses boost revenue by eliminating time wasting non revenue generating tasks that frustrate your team. With our custom AI bots, tools and automations, we make it easy to shift your team's focus to the tasks that matter most, driving growth and results. We guide you through a smooth, seamless transition to AI, ensuring you avoid costy mistakes and invest in the tools that truly deliver value. Don't get left behind. Let fraction AIO help you stay ahead.
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A
In today's AI driven world.
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Learn more and get started. Fraction aio.com.
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A
Now look, I'm excited to have you here today because the world has really changed over the past six months or year and we've been talking about how AI is going to replace everyone's jobs for so long. We keep hearing that news and now there's a hot new trend called Vibe coding which is this idea that all coders will be replaced by AI by the end of the year. And do you think that's true?
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C
Thank you Jonathan. It's a great question to start and I don't think so that it will replace all software engineers and all developers. It's like it will you need to start learn AI because the prompting is a must have right now because it's replacing the repetitive tasks. It's like having.
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All the repetitive tasks done by by robot. So it's very nice and but no it will not replace developers because developers the not these coders like they are calling them so they are just, they, they are not only clicking and just writing the easy code but they have to know the process, how to connect the dots, know the business and this ie right now will not replace. This is why I right now will not replace them.
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A
I find that whenever we do anything with vibe coding at my company we have a non coder starter project. The coders are like it's almost more work to fix it than to start from scratch that it's such an ugly way of coding or inelegant style of coding that it's almost like brute forcing it. Yes, it works, but there's no thought towards how can we get this to work in the least lines of code possible. How can we really be efficient? And one of the challenges I face of course is you don't know what's in there. So you don't know if you have a security hole or if there's some type of invisible glitch in the backend because you don't have the ability to check it. Anytime you create something it's. I one time saw a chef who was a vegetarian but cooked meat. I was like how do you know it tastes any good since you won't taste it since you don't eat that. Like you're just, you're missing like that critical ability to test the quality of your creations value. What I find happens when you are an amateur dabbling in coding and I do a lot of vibe coding, I use it to develop small prototypes and websites. But you always run into a problem that you can't fix because you don't really understand what the problem is.
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C
And you notice that AI always knows the answer. So it's always I know how to do this. And after some time you can fall in the trap that you are just repeating the prompts asking once again and it's not working because something is not there and it figures out the thing. And this is also the case why I'm thinking that it will not replace software developers right now, but in the future as I think they will be decreased the number of needed people in encoding in developing.
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A
So what do you think will happen to all those junior intermediate coders that are no longer needed? Where are they going to go?
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C
This is also a good question. I think that now today's job market is changing so it's not disappearing. We have still a lot of open job out there, but it's changing. So it means that to get into it as a junior or even mid, you will need to know more than before. It will be not like you mates one course and okay, we are hiring you, let's go. No, it will be like you will need know more things, learn to more things and be wider in your, in your expertise. So I think that they will not disappear but they, they will need to be more smarter, more have more knowledge to. To get.
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A
Yeah. So I run into two things with hiring. We've hired a lot of engineers and co owners over the past year and the first is that I want to talk about is like when someone says to me they've just finished A coding bootcamp or they've just finished their coding degree. I'm like, great. You're an absolute beginner. Like, you just know the rules if you don't have any experience. And like, even someone I was talking to this week, he was like, oh, I'm so excited to learn. I was like, don't say that. It's not what I want to hear. I don't want to pay you to teach you. I want to pay you to solve my problems or to build what I'm envisioning. And that's really important. So I was like, oh, man, this guy really messed up this interview. He shouldn't have said that. Like, that's the worst thing you can say because it's like saying pay me to. And that's one of the challenges is I need someone who, when I hire someone, I want them to have more of that problem solving mindset to think, okay, you want me to learn this new style of system. So I do a lot of like automations and AI agent building, which is not exactly what you learn in your coding bootcamp. Like your coding bootcamp gives you a foundation, which is great. What I want you to say is, I'm going to watch a bunch of videos before and after work and implement them during work hours. That's what I want to hear. Not that you're going to use my time to upskill yourself. When you're talking to the people you're training and helping people to figure out their position, how do you help them approach when a task is put in front of them that they don't know how to do yet, but they think it's within reach?
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C
Yeah, yeah, this is a good point, Jonathan. I think that this, this is the key. This is the key for the future job market that you need to upskill yourself, make some projects and do not just kindly experience draining the employer from money. So I would just say that you need to be already prepared. This is a significant change also now in the mindset in the job market. What I'm seeing that people are still begging for this job to get in it and.
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They are not prepared. They do not have any value to just prove that, okay, I will earn money for you. This is the biggest value for the business, all kinds of businesses.
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A
Yeah. What I look for is.
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How much time do I have to spend managing you, watching you, talking you, checking your work. The more of my time you cost, the less I want to hire you. So I'll pay more for less oversight. I really want employees that almost never need to talk to me. Exactly. Like, I had one of my workers reach out to me today and she was like, oh, I use this chatgpt a lot for this project. Can we upgrade my accounts? First thing she's asked for in two weeks. I'm a per. That's fine. Of course I'll get you whatever tool you need. That's what I'm really looking for is somebody who people are self sufficient and that they. Because there's two approaches, which is that when they hit a wall, they go, hey boss, what do I do? I don't know how to solve this. Or they go, I hit a wall. I tried to solve it. My solution worked or my solution didn't work. I tried another solution, didn't work. Now what should I do? That also doesn't bother me. That's fine. So one of my other employees, she's working on a really complicated chatbot that is supposed to ask 40 questions from her survey in a row. And it's hard to get it to stay on track because they're not really designed to function that way. That's more of an AI survey. So I was like, let's. She tried three ways and she goes, it just keeps drifting out. I have the same problem. Let's try a new approach. That's another conversation. That's fine. So sometimes my employees will try something that's not working for too long. I've spent three days on this. Okay, that's too long to not mention it's not working. If you hit a wall for a day, definitely let me know what's happening so we can assess that. But between the two, it's like hard to find that balance of don't bother me unless you really need me and when do you really need me. But there's this problem solving mindset. So that's one thing that we look for. The other thing I want to bring up is that it's really hard to hire people right now because there's a massive amount of resume fraud, application fraud, interview fraud. I had someone on an interview recently, he had his glasses on and didn't think about it, that I could see the reflection. I could see he was using ChatGPT to look up the answers to the questions. It's like, at least get contacts if you're going to cheat like that. So there's this huge problem. And actually I talk to a lot of other people that hire in my space as well. There's a big shift towards referral hiring. We would rather hire a less qualified referral than a more qualified maybe. Because now what people do is they'll look at the job and they'll say chatgpt, here's my resume. Convert it into a resume that's perfect for this job and then the hirer or the headhunting agency, whatever then uses ChatGPT to analyze the resumes that ChatGPT wrote in the first place. So now when you post a job, instead of a hundred applicants, you get 600. So of course you have to sip them more extremely. And we get tons of people who like do not know how to use the specific we list. Here's our tech stack. Juddie. You have to know how to use these different things. This is what the job is to do and it's oh yeah, I definitely want to learn how to use all those tools. Or they don't have the skill at all and they're trying to do it. So we're constantly trying to find ways to conduct interviews that get the truth because yeah, great, you can work for somewhere for two weeks. Maybe you get to that first paycheck before they realize you're completely incompetent. But it's like what, how. That's not a very good strategy. We're seeing a lot of that. Like how much of that do you count? I know you help people with. From the other side of the career transition and that's what interests me is like why do people think, why is this a strategy people are implementing and what's a better way?
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C
Yeah, it's a great observation from job market and I have very similar ones regarding the AI and these massive applicants. And this is not even 600. I heard that it's 2,000 even. And they are just applying. Yeah. So this is a big number. And we have two AIs from the recruiter sides and from the candidate sides and all this. It's not going to quality, unfortunately, like you are saying, it's like going to. Only it's not. It's quantity. Yes. So it's not quality, it's quantity. And this is the issue, what we have how to make this, how to make this better. This is a very good question. When I was interviewing people to get into my small startup company and I was trying to get from them, like we said, the skills, what they know and if they have attitude to. To learn and what they are doing. So it was like problem solving skills. So this one, one the most important. So what you said is taking responsibility. You are not asking all the time. You are not. You are trying to figure out some Way, okay, this is possible, but the second one is not possible because we have the restriction like that. So thinking. Thinking in wider terms. So it was one and attitude to learn. So what you are doing to improve your skills, what you are using stack overflow still or you are asking ChatGPT, but why you are trusting ChatGPT, why you are thinking? This answer is good one. So this is another question which I was asking, but still it was some candidates which who we hired. Some of them, they. They are still working with us and some of them not. So it was like, I think 30% of success maybe something like that. So it is not that big number.
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A
Yeah. One of the things that we do in our interviews is we'll ask.
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How did you solve this type of problem? We'll ask about past experiences and we'll say don't. We don't care about the solution. We care about the story. So that's the part of like ChatGPT might give you the technical answer. No. How did you feel? How did you approach it? What did you try first? Where did you get stuck?
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C
How did you.
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We want emotional words and like storytelling words because that's where engineers are not good at faking that if they didn't feel the emotions, not gonna come with it. And that's something that like you don't have prepped in your little Chat GPT worksheet. Because that also tells us what things you try. Like when I was in school and you do a math problem, like, you have to show your work or you don't get points because it's the process matters and something. I was actually dealing with someone the other day because they were like, we want you to scope out all the bugs and then tell us how long it will take to fix them. I was like, yeah, scoping the bug is 80% of it. Once we know the problem, like finding the problem, the root cause, that's the hard part. Like fixing it. Once you know a problem, it's easy to fix it, even if it's something really hard. Right. If I have to change a part of my engine and I don't know how to fix an engine, yeah, that's really hard. But figuring it out what part of the engine needs to be fixed when I don't know how to fix the engine, even harder.
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That's like, sometimes people don't understand the importance of that part of the process. So that's one of the things we do. Another technique is to make someone like solve or do a piece of coding, but film themselves doing It So more and more we have to use these like extra tricks to see someone do something in action or they have to do it person in front of you. And it's. It's just this shift in the market that's causing again like trust is really decreasing. It's really hard for candidates. So they can't apply to a hundred jobs get no response. So now they apply to 200. What does that mean? Every job is now receiving more and they're less like each job is less likely to respond. So it's really this challenge like what are some of the techniques or ways people can better prepare for the interview and then hirers. What are some of the other takes besides the two that I used? What are some other things I can do do to better screen out poor candidates and also attract better candidates.
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Yeah.
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C
So from employer point of view it's I would more say from candidate point of view because of employer. I know that it's hard to even find a nice HR agency which the things what you said about this life coding or having the the story to. To say it's very hard even to explain to HR that they should find somebody with these competencies. So they are just looking for a piece of paper which is resumed. And this is. This is a bad thing. But one thing what you notice also it's very important and I think now it's a switching. It's a very big switch to going to and finding the job using referrals. So it's like more having the good recommendation and because you know somebody and you can get into tech into your company into into into your target role then just sending resume because it's not saying a lot. You can lie in there like you want and you have the issues because it is just written by ChatGPT or whatever it's keywords are matching. So it's great you have the great candidate. But how to make this difference? So I would just think in the different terms of getting. Getting into your dream employers. So first of all I would just make a research, proper research what you are doing if you are my dream company or not. If you are on my. I don't want to work when employer is not aligned with my talents, with my values, with my character. Generally we need to have the match so you have some environment which I can check before I can just try to observe you and find out what you are writing, what you are recording. And you will know you better. So I would just. If I would just want to get to your compani jonata I would just observe you very carefully and try to draw conclusions and propose something for you. Maybe give some value for before. I will just apply.
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A
Yeah.
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C
What do you think?
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A
No, I do pay attention. There are sometimes candidates who go the extra mile, who actually visit your website, look at the type of things you do and ask specific questions which always does make them stand out that they've actually gone the extra mile. That's a huge thing. It doesn't matter if they do that. But they don't have the skills. It's not enough to make up for that. It's a good way to stand out. It is really challenging to solve this new problem that AIs made worse. AIs made the job market worse from both ends. One of the other things that I deal with is there's two mindsets from hirers or employers. One mindset is I pay for 40 hours a week. I want to make sure I get it. And it's time based mentality which means they are shifting towards like turning on. If we're especially for remote employees, like all my employees are remote. They're like, we're going to turn on your webcam, we're going to turn on screen tracking. We're going to turn on something that tracks how much your mouse moves and all of these things. And I know managers who will spend six out of eight hours a day just watching the webcams of their voice. And I said, I'm not doing that. That's not the direction I'm going in. I'm a big believer in task based. So what I'll do with my employees when I hire someone new, I'll say you have two choices. I can put a tracker on your computer that will take a screenshot every few minutes and we'll track how much you move the mouse. Make sure you're not playing a video game pretending you're working to make sure you get in your hours.
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Or at the beginning of every week we discuss the tasks I need done. And at the end of the week, if those tasks are done, you get paid. So you estimate what you can get done that week in the time you're supposed to work. So now it's task based. This means I only pay for. I don't care. I don't want to pay you 40 hours. You work really hard, but I don't get an output right. I would rather pay you the same amount of money and the three things I want. Underdog. So I'm now paying for product instead of your tie. And I ask people which One do you want? Someone says, oh, I really want, let's do the hour tracking. I'm like, oh gosh, that's more work for me. Now I got to check the screenshots. I don't want to work with you. That's actually like most companies want that I don't. I really want the first. The other type of candidate. Yeah, I can self direct. I can properly assess how long task does it take? And then they ask questions, are always like, what hours do you want me to work? Like, I don't care if you work 40 hours Monday and Tuesday. And don't worry the rest of the week you get everything done. I have an employee who manages my Pinterest account every. I check in with her every three months. Once a month I'll log into Pinterest, look at my stats. They've doubled from the previous month. I don't know what she's doing. I don't know if she works 10 hours a day or 15 minutes a month. And I don't care because she's hitting her core metric. If a salesperson right generates X amount of revenue, I don't care what they're doing, they're hitting their goal. So once someone knows their metric and the critical thing, that's value, then it makes it easier for them because they know what goal to hit and they know the thing they need to be tracking. And that's really important. So as a hirer or as a manager, I make it clear this is the things that I'm looking for. This is how I know you'll do a good job. Like sometimes you get people who they're tracking the wrong metric. Like, oh, I'm attracting visitors to a website. I go, cool, I care about money.
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That's the metric. The most important metric is money. Second most important metric is like inquiries or email addresses. Like another metric close to that's on the path to a sale. But people get caught up in like how many times they did something, not if it was effective. Like, I would rather you post one social media thing a week that gets a ton of views than 50 to get nothing. And unfortunately we see a lot of people.
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They'Re tracking like features rather than benefits, attracting tasks rather than results. So from your perspective as someone who's worked with a lot of people, how do you help people to become better candidates and to start to have the especially because they want to work remotely, the personality or the like skill set that makes you like a desirable remote employee?
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C
Okay, this is a very great question. And your approach is very major and also I have the same approach in my startup, in my IT company. So I'm not a manager but I'm working there and we have the same task oriented measures. So we are just, we are in the different time zones. We have people from America, we have the people from Europe, we have the people from different continents and it's no matter, it's matter how you are delivering tasks but this required to change your mind mindset. And this is the case where a lot of people will be rejected because they want to like you said, 40 hours per week and just the salary coming and that's all they do not care if they task will go to the specific person, if this will solve the specific problem. So this responsibility what we are talking, it's very important and I think that unfortunately there is, there is only a few percent of people out there of employees who, who is working in like that because most of them they have the mindset like in the previous century with this office sitting approach. And now unfortunately in the job market we are seeing a lot of forcing to at offices and because you are working at that it's not this, not matter what where you are working, it's no matter if this is office or.
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A
I think there's a lot of people that can't self motivate. So if they're working from home, they're not going to work as hard as from the office. I've seen a lot of discussions. Every single person who talks about the benefits of working from home only talks about the benefits to themselves, not the benefits to the company. And that for me is a huge red flag like why do you want to work from home? This and this. Yeah, none of those help me. They're like oh, the commute's really long. Yeah, why do I care about that? It's your time, you don't get paid for that time. I'm not trying to be harsh but I'm saying you have to come up with a benefit to me why that's good for me. Now I only hire remote employees so it's fine for me. But when I work with companies that have offices, this is their mindset and they say when at least we know you're here and you're working, you're not pretending to work, we don't have to track your screen, all that stuff I'm always looking for. The core thing I look for is someone who self motivates. I think this is really important is that people start to think of their jobs as a business. So you have to cultivate all of these elements. The same thing you do as an entrepreneur, which is keep your resume good. You're responsible for growing. You're responsible for your professional development. You're responsible for asking for a raise or looking for other opportunities. When you are passive, that's when you get pacified. And there's a lot of people that think if I just code really hard, everything will work out for me. And it's. Unfortunately, those are the people that always get disappointed when they realize that soft skills are just as important. The person who's liked often gets promoted over the person who's more technically qualified. It's just unfortunate. It's the name of the nature of the beast. So you have to be aware of these things so you can be strategic. And I think that it's a really important lesson. You can always tell when someone's been fired because suddenly they get super active on LinkedIn, right? You are getting their profile and they're messaging people, and then they're adding the Open to work logo on their profile. They're doing all these things and it's like, yeah, that's a wrong time to do it. All that stuff needs to be done earlier. That's the entrepreneurial, the business owner mindset, which is, I'm constantly thinking about, what am I doing now that I can add to my LinkedIn profile in six months? What am I doing now that can increase the perception of me? And there's a lot of things that I've done strategically throughout my life that a lot of people skip over. I joined Mensa when I was around 30. Just as it's something to add to my resume. Oh, this person's super smart, right? You take a mental test and it adds a perception. I don't go to a bunch of men's conferences and all of that stuff, but I look at it that way, and you look at what can I do to make my resume stand out that is measurable, that's actually actionable, and what are things I can do? And unfortunately, it's kind of like a lot of people wait until, like, after they're fired to ask for referrals from their coworkers or other things. But if you get all your coworkers to leave testimonials or reviews on your LinkedIn profile, even after you've left, you could point to those and say, here's something that shows the quantum network when I was there. But we wait too long because we don't treat it like a career. I think this is really Important. I do think that what you help people do. I think there's going to be a lot more opportunities in the technology sector going forward. I don't think it's going to shrink, it's increasing. We're constantly hiring more engineers. And even though I use AI to prototype, I still end up hiring like website developers, front end developers, back end developers, full stack developers, all sorts of things. Sometimes it's just troubleshoot and fix, a specific integration or one thing's not working and sometimes it's take the prototype and bring it all the way to market. So for people who are passionate and thinking, you know what, I do want to upscale, I do want to learn more about these IT skills. I do want to move into this direction. Where's the best place to find you online and see some of the really cool things that you're doing these days?
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C
Jonathan, you said one thing which I would like to highlight and this is the passion. You don't have to have the passion in your work because it's also, I would say the career coach move. But it's good to know that you are going to the branch to the industry and you are doing something what you like. And this is the thing which people are forgetting and they are not prepared because they do not have any determination to learn every day. And for developers this is very important thing. People are thinking that oh it is so great, I will just make one bootcamp, I will get and I will earn $5,000 at the beginning or 10,000 or whatever. So a lot of money. But let's say that it's not like that. And what I am observing through what I'm observing at the candidate level is they think that they won't do something which is not aligning with them. So they, for example, they want to get into product manager role but the character is like more for data analysis. And this is the observation and career planning what you are saying. So you need to know exactly what is guiding energy for you and what is draining energy from you. And this is the thing which people are missing. They are not prepared, they are not updating any profiles, they are not visible on today's job market. And this is very, very common mistake because now they are just, if they are just not, they are, if they are just losing the job, they need to start from scratch. And this is a very difficult thing right now because of this AI which is spoiling market like you notice. Yes, it's spoiling. I also think that it's easier to do something but it's harder to get a result what you want. So yeah this is my thinking about this.
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A
Amazing. I think you're exactly right that you want a role. You want to move into a role that you actually want to stick with. Unfortunately people sometimes shift to a role that they hate and you end up trying to shift back. Great thing to end on. I really appreciate you spending time with us here today, Luke. Where's the best place for people to see what you're doing? What's your website? Where can people connect with you online?
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C
Thank you Jonathan. It's great time with you and I see that we have a lot of in in common. Thank you once again. So you can find me on LinkedIn. Just try to find my name and surname. It will be it will be not look it will be profile. It's like that I will just write on the chat and on my website which is care changetoit.com so now we.
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Just released our three modes. Getting into it Accelerator Programmer where we are just going from reactive actions like sending and applying online to proactive actions. So getting to hiring manager how to make these strategical moves to get into your g job. So this is what we are talking with Jonathan. Also like you need to plan your career consciously. Not doing this like it would be the big surprise for you.
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A
That's amazing. I think people are going to love it. I'll make sure to put the links below the video and in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here today, Luke, for another amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast.
- [29:51]
C
Thank you very much.
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B
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss another episode. We'll be back next Monday with more tips and strategies on how to leverage AI to grow grow your business and achieve better results. In the meantime, if you're curious about how AI can boost your business's revenue, head over to artificialintelligencepod.com calculator. Use our AI revenue calculator to discover the potential impact AI can have on your bottom line. It's quick, easy, and might just change the way you think about your business. While you're there, catch up on past episodes, leave a review and check out our socials.