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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
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Ryan Reynolds
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Danielle Moody
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- [01:04]
Kai von Schroff
Welcome to as the World Churns. I am Danielle Moody as always, joined by my fave, Andy Levy. Andy, as it turns out, for a while I have been going back and forth about whether or not a majority of this country is lost. Right? Like we're just never going to get them back. And I still believe this. But the New York Times has solidified it with some pictures that allow those that pictures resonate more than words to really see, which is that they have posted a interactive map. The Democrats problems run deep nearly everywhere. This is where voters shifted toward Trump in each of the last three elections. And just imagine that it is a map of the United States with all of these red arrows going all over the country, going every single where. Not just in the red districts but or in the red states, but literally all across the country. And that the article and the infographics go as far to say that even when Donald Trump lost the 2020 elections, he was still gaining voters and that Republicans have consistently been gaining voters over these last three elections. Where in fact, yes, where in fact, where in fact Democrats are only building up voters in where wealthy, highly educated enclaves which if you've seen America lately, is in a lot of places, Democrats. I guess I could have shortened this if you were using AI and you asked for a shorter title and something punchier it would say Democrats seemed fucked in 2026. What say you America?
- [02:53]
Andy Levy
Am I speaking for America here?
- [02:54]
Kai von Schroff
Yes, Andy, you always do.
- [02:57]
Andy Levy
I love to speak for America. Yeah, this is just really really bad. It's never a good sign when it says Democrats are gaining ground in a small sliver of the best educated enclaves. Enclave is not a word you want for where you're gaining ground with voters. No, because an enclave is generally kind of small and generally surrounded by the enemy, or however you want to phrase it. So never a good sign when you're seeing that word used. I mean, there was a stat in that Times report that said Trump increased the Republican Party's share of the presidential vote in each. Each election. He's been on the ballot in close to half the counties in America. And, boy, that's just not good. Yes, I know that. Obviously, places like New York City, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, a lot of other big cities are majority Democrat. And so it's easy to say, yeah, sure, he's increasing the Republican vote, but it's in small areas. The thing is, you get enough small areas and they start to outweigh the big cities. And that's what we're seeing here. I mean, you know, that's even, even setting aside the idiocy of the Electoral College, because if we're talking about congressional elections, that's a really, really bad sign that all these counties whose elected representatives have the same amount of power as the elected representatives from places with larger populations do. Boy, it's such a bad trend. 435 counties voted more Democratic in 2024 than in 2012. 2,678 counties became more Republican. That's, you know, roughly six times as many counties going towards the Republicans than towards the Democrats. And it's also, by a larger margin, it's by 13%. They're becoming more Republican, whereas the Democrats in the counties, they improved. They improved by 8.8%. So it's six times the counties. It's a much bigger gain, a much bigger margin of voters switching. And it is one of these things where you read it and it's like, okay, well, let me keep going. I'll get to the good news. And suddenly I got to the part where it just started talking about sources and methodology in very small letters. At the end, it's like, there was no good news. And, and look, it's one study, and it's not everything. And the Democrats have continued to do well in the midterms, and all this stuff is potentially reversible. But, man, it is rough to read.
- [05:54]
Kai von Schroff
I mean, it's rough to read. And also, like, it begs the question of, well, so we know, right? Like, this map, again, is just a visual Representation of what we've been talking about on this show and on other, you know, our former show for years at this point, right. That as Trumpism continued to grow and gain ground in areas and with communities, black men, Latino men picking off the working class, that where were Democrats and what was the messaging? Because the messaging just couldn't be, we're not Donald Trump. If Donald Trump is appealing to people, right. You needed to offer another narrative. Now for people like ourselves, I think that it was, you know, for us it's just like, well, how could you not see the other narrative? You have somebody who is embracing autocracy, believes in fascism, believes, you know, that, that white people are the most aggrieved, believe that marginalized people deserve whatever pain comes their way just by virtue of their birth, like that. There is an easy story to tell here as to why Donald Trump isn't the choice for an America moving forward. And America, that by the way, reminder, voted for a black man twice, right? So that there are still, there are those people that are there. Barack Obama had a compelling story, one that America wanted to connect with, one that was about weak. Yes, we can, we can be better, we can do these things. We, we can build community, we can move forward. And so again, you think to yourself, well, then, Andy, Democrats must have gotten this message. So what are, what are they doing? Well, they did get the message and what they're doing. According to the Washington Post and this title, hold onto your hats folks. It says Democratic troubles revive debate over left wing buzzwords from quote, intersectionality to quote, equity. Many say jargon is alienating key voters, but progressives say inclusive language is vital now. So while the entire country is going red, while Trumpism is gaining ground, Democrats are arguing over words. And I have a lot of thoughts and issues with that. What say you?
- [08:24]
Andy Levy
I have a lot of thoughts and issues with it too. But to some extent I sort of agree with it. And where I agree with it is I think there are different ways to say the same thing. And where I don't agree with it is there are times when centrists or, you know, call them whatever you want, what they're more concerned about is not the language, but the point being made or the rights of people that that sort of undergird the language. For example, they keep complaining about words like Latinx and pregnant people, which first of all are terms that were barely ever used by anybody. So to act like those are the big problems is ridiculous to me. But again, I have no problem with not saying pregnant people. I Think it's okay to just say women and, yes, trans men count as pregnant people. I have no problem with that. But let's face it, the majority of pregnant people are CIS women. And so I don't have. I don't think it's a big deal to say women and to not say pregnant people, as long as you are cognizant of the fact and, and, and you are willing to stand up for the fact that there are people who become pregnant who do not identify as women and, you know, and you're not throwing them under the bus. Like, that's where I think the difference is. I think too much of this debate about language, particularly from. From the centrist point of view, is not so much about the language, but it's about the people they want to throw under the bus or the people they want to, you know, just ignore and pretend don't exist. Yeah. So I do think there are ways of. Of. Of being more plain spoken. I think Tim Walls was a perfect example of this before the consultants, you know, got to him. And I think the fact that he went out there and called people weird and did whatever, but at the same time was so very clearly an inclusive person in terms of queer people, trans people, you know, black people, brown people, whatever. Like, Tim Walls is a guy, like, if he doesn't use the academic word, fine. And, yeah, probably better there. I think there is sometimes a tendency among Democrats to go for the academic word when they don't have to. And so, again, my feeling on this is I don't really care what word you use for something like this, as long as your heart is in the right place and you're looking at protecting everyone. And I think a lot of times, to repeat myself, a lot of times the people who have problems with the language actually have problems with the people that the language is meant to represent. And that's where I have to say, I shut up. I'm not interested in what you have to say anymore.
- [11:20]
Kai von Schroff
Agreed? Agreed.
- [11:22]
Andy Levy
So, Danielle, Sunday marked the fifth year of George Floyd's death. It was the fifth anniversary. We decided anniversary is a content neutral word, so it was okay to use it for a bad thing. There's been, you know, what was really, as some people have said, the Black Lives Matter was possibly sort of the largest social justice movement in American history. But here we are five years later, and, you know, it's worth taking a look at whether that has proven sustainable. And there's an article in the New York Times with the headline, five years after George Floyd's murder, the backlash takes hold. And it talks about how the Black Lives Matter movement has sort of, as it puts it, given way to the politics of white grievance championed by President Trump. And I was a little surprised, Danielle, that before we started taping, you said that you thought this was good, that it had gone too far and you were glad that white people were actually finally speaking up for themselves again. So I, you know, tell me more about that.
- [12:42]
Kai von Schroff
You know, good goddamn well that is not what I said. Maybe that was the AI version of me, the MAGA AI version of Danielle, which would be fucking terrifying and also probably rich, you know, so here is the thing for me. One, it was hard for me to reckon with the fact that five years have passed since we all watched the absolute grotesque murder suffocation of George Floyd under the knee of Derek Chauvin for over nine minutes. And one of the stories, one of the many that I saw, were clips of a number of outlets, media outlets, ap, Washington Post, New York Times, Huffington Post and others, and saying that words matter, that George Floyd did not die and he wasn't, quote, unquote, killed like you're killed in a vehicular accident. He was murdered. And that it is important for us and for his memory to be reminded of the fact that he was murdered by Derek Chauvin. And you know, when the New York Times even refers to the quote, unquote, backlash, and it isn't a backlash, it is a white lash to what has happened following the murder of George Floyd. Corporate America and other institutions decided that they were going to dive headfirst into diversity, equity and inclusion, a practice one that had been around for many, many, many years, which was to create more inclusivity in our workspaces that didn't prioritize and center the ideas and positions of white CIS hetero men. And that Harvard Review put out reports that said diversity was good for the bottom line. But the murder of George Floyd centered that for so many companies who wanted to ride the bandwagon of we're not racist, so let us do this thing. And then five years later, we see that Donald Trump has been reelected, that major corporations have rolled back their diversity, equity and inclusion at his behest. But because it was what I thought then, performative, I don't know what it is going to take for America to actually reckon with racism and reckon with the fact that racism is centered around white rage and centered around the fact that we continue to not teach about white domestic violence. That has been at the core and is a founding principle of America, and that white people have been allowed to see themselves as the, as benevolent beings. Right. That everything has been done in order to shield them from the truth. You can look at Ron DeSantis's policies down in Florida. You can look at Donald Trump now utilizing civil rights policies and protections that were meant for black people and marginalized people to protect them. Now he's using them to elevate white men because he believes that white men are the most aggrieved in this country. He, you can look at the 39 white South Africaners that he has resettled in Alabama, right? Is saying, oh, they're facing a genocide. Not the people of Gaza, not Palestinians, my God, if we use that word, then you'll absolutely be canceled or fucking detained. But it's South Africaners, him spreading a lie about them, that tells you where this country is. And, and honestly, Andy, I don't know if in this era that we can ever think that we're going to have another reckoning that there's going to be any more forward progress and not just a continued backslide.
- [16:28]
Andy Levy
You know, this is a bit of a historical pattern. I mean, you had the civil rights, the marches, the Civil Rights act of 1964, everything happening in the 60s, and then we got Richard Nixon. It sucks. But I don't know that this is an unusual act aspect of America, of American history, that every time progress is made, there are people who are sitting there going, well, some of them are just straight up bigots and straight up racists and don't want there to be progress made at all. But then there's always the people who are like, it's too fast, you're moving too fast. You know, we need, we, we need to slow down. It's never the people big being discriminated against who think we're moving too fast to end that discrimination. It's always the people who have benefited from discrimination who want to, you know, who say they want to end that discrimination, but slowly, you know, we can't do this. It's too much of a system shock. They make excuses and it's grotesque. But that's sort of, you know, that's one of the histories of centrism in this country, is that history. And so now we've got, you know, as you said, Donald Trump is 100% convinced, as are most of his supporters, that white people, and white men in particular, are the most put upon people in America. It is absolutely wild that what they're basically saying is the people who caused the problem which is white people and, you know, America's original sin of slavery and followed by, you know, Jim Crow and everything like that. But the people who caused the problem are the ones who. They get to set the terms, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And, and so often when they, they talk. If, when I say so often, I mean pretty much always when they talk about, you know, white people are now under attack and white people are aggrieved, what they mean is there's. There have been efforts to overturn the unfair advantages that. That white people have had since the founding of this country. And that's not. I'm not saying anything that hasn't been commented on a million times before. It is fucking obvious that that's what's going on. But somehow they have managed to set the tone of the conversation is what I'm trying to get at. And so we have to read articles about the backlash and whether the backlash is legitimate and whether things have gone too far. Same with the MeToo movement. A bunch of men decided the MeToo movement went too far. It wasn't a bunch of women who had been harassed and discriminated against who said MeToo went too far. It's a bunch of men who said it. And it's the same exact thing.
- [19:16]
Kai von Schroff
Yeah, it's just, you know, again, it's par for the Donald Trump, you know, course. And this is where we need Democrats to have a really strong narrative and just, like, understand that they created a vacuum that Donald Trump was able to slide into. Right. It is not an either or proposition. It's like, how do we create a multiracial democracy instead of, like you said, picking and choosing who we're going to throw under the bus and when. Right. It is about how we are going to march forward together. And the way that it has been framed is as a binary and that, frankly, just doesn't exist.
- [19:59]
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- [20:34]
Danielle Moody
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- [21:09]
Kai von Schroff
Folks, I am very happy to welcome to the to the as the World Churns podcast for the very first time. Kai von Schroff, who is a former DNC delegate for Kamala Harris and a Democratic strategist. And I discovered you as folks may not know because this pod, as the World churns is new vis a vis TikTok because of the fantastic videos that you put up and on and when I when I was still on Twitter rip which I am no longer on but but I'm on Blue Sky. But let's talk about this. We are now four months into this administration and it seems, according to the New York Times, that has a new piece that is up, that is talking about the ways in which Donald Trump has forever potentially changed the political landscape, that even though he had a loss in 2020, that he has consistently over the last 10 years been gaining voters, he's been picking off black voters, Latina voter, Latino voters, working class voters, while Democrats seemingly are only growing in one particular area, which is the highly educated, wealthy enclaves of America, which we know are shrinking. And so my question is, four months into this, what do you believe the message is that Democrats have, if any?
- [22:43]
David Roth
Well, I think that's exactly the problem. Right? I mean, Democrats have gotten bogged down by the same stories and arguments and narratives since 2016. And I haven't seen a lot of new ideas, new energy, new voices. And when we do get the new voices, they sort of say the same old, old ideas. And I will say, you know, I'm a fan of a lot of those ideas. I think building on progress and, you know, investing in policies that, you know, take 10 years, 20 years to truly deliver for the entire nation is of value and has a proven track record. But it people aren't buying that. They're not buying what we're selling. They're not feeling it in their day to day lives. And to your point, you know, the system works for the people that are highly educated and wealthy in those enclaves that you're talking about and the system isn't working for everyone else who, you know, whether or not what Trump Says makes sense. Are willing to just choose the devil they don't know. And I think that's a big problem. And you know, there's been all this discussion. Does the left need a Joe Rogan? They did that big effort with 2024 DNC TikTok influencers. I know, you know, and even I'm just seeing now, you know, all these efforts to get young voices out there on college campuses, on TikTok. And I don't think any of it's working. But we can dive into that in order.
- [24:07]
Kai von Schroff
Yeah, yeah. Because before we dive in, I do, I want to. I want to bring your attention to, again, one of the old, and I mean old versus his age, as well as old thinkers inside of the Democratic Party that I would love for them to retire, which is James Carville. Who? James Carville. Right, exactly. Insert roll eyes.
- [24:28]
David Roth
He's retired.
- [24:29]
Kai von Schroff
That's the thing. That's the thing. And has talking everywhere and hasn't won. Hasn't been on a campaign since the 90s. But when he was asked recently about, you know, AOC and about Bernie, he's like, all I ever get asked about is AOC and Bernie. Like, what about Elise Slotnick and, you know, and others. And I'm like, what about her? What about her performative stance on, you know, killing wokeness? And we need an alpha mentality on the left. So when you see that mainstream corporate media is still diving in the 90s think tanks of j. The recesses of James Carville's mind, what do you make about that and their ability to move forward?
- [25:13]
David Roth
Well, I think, first of all, it's a little bit of a commentary on the institutional media that that's their go to. Right. They've been calling the same voices to go on those shows and give the same opinions for decades. And their business model is dying, so it's not going to work for them. And it's also vice versa. Right. Democrats like James Carville, you know, are threatened by people like aoc Bernie Sanders, you know, I'm no Bernie Sanders fan, but he did introduce something new, which is what I'm seeing is that criticism now, I think, you know, to have him out on the talk show circuit rehashing 2016 certainly isn't helpful at this time. And I wrote a piece for MSNBC a couple of months ago. Why is he running for reelection himself? Right. Doesn't that sort of speak to and undermine his whole movement of we need new ideas, we need new leaders? Because the Bernie thing is over. The Bernie movement didn't Become anything, frankly. It became dsa, right, to some extent. And that's wither. Absolutely withered. Aoc, I think, has created her own brand, and that was smart of her to sort of break away from that. And she is a good inside player and outside player. She does know how to get some wins for people in her community and across the country through the policy frameworks. And then she's also great at connecting online. But I think, again, this, like, there's almost this scientific method, I think, that's misapplied by Democrats, where they see something that's worked somewhere and they try to replicate it, which isn't a bad idea, but the execution is very poor. And I think you can't be that scientific. There's an art to a lot of this about connecting with people, about coming across authentic. You can't just say, oh, well, they have this type of an influencer. Let's cosplay, right? Some, like Duck Dynasty, bro, and will suddenly win the mail vote, like, that's not gonna work. And I think, you know, David Hogg obviously has come under fire for sort of some of his comments about young men just want to have sex and go party. And, like, you know, look, of course that's appealing to some extent, like, is he the right messenger? Is that what he's done with his life? Because he's a youth advocate. So hopefully he doesn't think young people just want to do those things. Hopefully he understands they actually do care about the policies that affect their everyday lives. That's what he's been talking about for a decade. So it's incongruous. And then, of course, to go on Bill Maher, which, you know, my grandmother watches Bill Maher. I don't know anyone else that watches Bill Maher my age. To go pitch those ideas really sort of, I think, betrays what I'm seeing with a lot of these influencers and people that want to be sort of the ones catching the mantle, is it. It's about them, and it's about their media attention and their brand and their future. It's not actually about what young voters across the country think. Whereas when you have somebody like a Theo Vaughn not to agree with what he says, of course, but who's talking about life and all these other topics and then weighing in on some political stuff, not positioning himself to run for Congress, it comes across very different.
- [28:06]
Kai von Schroff
I think that what we are talking about to the greater theme is authenticity. And I think that what.
- [28:11]
Andy Levy
That.
- [28:12]
Kai von Schroff
That what the left is missing right now in terms of Their desire to just cosplay what is working on the right comes across as incredibly inauthentic. Right. When you have Elise Slotnick talking about alpha males and this, that and the other thing, she literally sounds like one of the MAGA Barbies, but just parroting Democratic talking points. And it falls flat when. And I think that one of the reasons why an AOC can take flight in the way that she does is because she speaks, speaks from the heart. She tells the truth through the lens of her own experience, what she sees and what she hears in her community. And she continues to do that. So does Jasmine Crockett and, and others that are inside of the House who still have not received the mantle from the establishment Democrats and still are told to sit down and wait their turn while literally people are dying in their seats, as evidenced by sadly, the late Jerry Conley. But should he have been ranking member of oversight as opposed to, oh, I don't know, AOC who ran for the same position and he died there.
- [29:21]
David Roth
Well, in fairness, right, who else does that authentic approach work for? Nancy Pelosi. So I think you can break it out of the age mold and I think you can be iconic and at any age and come across like this person, seeing what's on their mind, what they think, and they're sort of uninhibited in that way. But most people of that generation don't come across that way. Most people of that generation in leadership in the Democratic Party haven't understood digital or social media and they want to farm it out and that doesn't work. And then what you end up with. And I know a lot of these influencers and they're very nice people and they're thoughtful to some extent, but really they're just regurgitating and parroting what some 80 year old who doesn't know social media told them because they think that's their shot. Like it's like an old American story. So it's not that interesting. And I think, you know, I don't. I know maybe this is like a too online topic, but if you've been on TikTok, there's all this discourse about this quote unquote unfuck America tour, which had a lot of big influencers. There was some internal fighting, lack of organization, it imploded and now they're all sort of fighting with each other. By the way, I don't think they mind that much because they're still able to monetize their videos. Villain or hero of the story, talking about this thing, getting The View is getting into the drama. It's sort of like modern reality tv but it doesn't serve the Democratic Party and they certainly shouldn't be investing in it instead of trying to find and amplify those authentic voices.
- [30:47]
Kai von Schroff
So right now too right was just, you know, announced the Democrats are spending $20 million. $20 million kaivon to invest in SAM. Right. SA SAM is this acronym of folks that is about investing in the American mail. Talk to us about that and how successful you think that that project is going to be.
- [31:14]
David Roth
I think all of these top down projects are absurd consultant pushed wastes of money because again, you don't have to work that hard to find what's not working. Like I do think there's some insight into the criticism. Not on I don't want to adopt the narrative of wokeness and DEI or whatever. I would summarize it as Democrats have done themselves a disservice by overtone policing, bringing the way that you have discourse in a classroom to the national conversation, shutting down anyone that doesn't say things in the right words in the right way, like perfectly. And it stalls conversation and it alienates people. That doesn't mean that it's okay to be willfully ignorant and say a bunch of obnoxious stuff. And of course we should keep calling that out. But not everything you disagree with, you shut down immediately the first time it's said. And that keeps happening. And I think that's also led us to a lot of the leaders that we do have because we don't have those discussions, including by the way, you know, David Hogg. And not to pick on David, but you know, he wants the attention. He's sort of saying I should be the the face and the leader of.
- [32:22]
Kai von Schroff
The new Democratic Party.
- [32:23]
David Roth
But then I look at somebody like my friend Malcolm Kenyatta who, you know, maybe wasn't on TV every five seconds but was doing the work in his state of Pennsylvania, knows all those folks there, has built those roots, has an idea, an agenda, a pitch that he wants to share with people. And that doesn't get booked on the Bill Maher show, but it resonates with real voters. So how can Democrats amplify that? How can they focus on that and that messaging? And I think it's much more simple than that. I mean we're not here to be your entertainment, your best friend, your favorite TV show. Like it's about influencing your life in a positive way. And what bothered me so much about what David Hogg said about young men and sex is I Think actually Democrats are already winning on that message if you look at and frame it correctly, which they don't do.
- [33:08]
Ryan Reynolds
But.
- [33:09]
David Roth
Right. There's been one party for the past decades that's been fighting for your sexual freedom, sexual health, access, so that if you are a young guy and you do want to have casual sex, you don't have to be a dad in nine months because that's not a lot of fun to be a 20 year old father. I don't think they're going out to the club. Whereas the other party wants to take us back to purity times. They want only, you know, intercourse for procreation. All of those ideas are not popular with straight young men who these people keep talking about appealing to. How simple is that like to say? I don't think it's incredibly complicated to say that. And we have example after example of the efforts Republicans are taking to do this, including banning contraceptives. All those things. Right. So is it so deep, like I don't know that we have to really Engineer and paid $5 million to figure that out?
- [33:53]
Kai von Schroff
Not 5, 20, $20 million to figure it out.
- [33:57]
David Roth
I was letting him save a little money.
- [33:58]
Kai von Schroff
Right, you were going to eat it. Right, Exactly. For some other big ideas that, that they're using. When you think about again, because I want to go back to the, to the Joe Rogan of the left. Right. And the way in which. Oh, and this is not again the way that the right has been able to infiltrate into different markets, whether it's ufc, whether it is the, the, the Broli sphere and you know, and the grievance of white straight men, whether it's gaming. Right. And they've been able to infiltrate into gaming. All of those things did not happen overnight. They've actually been longer 20 year plus projects. Right. Of having these conversations and kind of feeding some of these ideas to these influencers but allowing them to go off and do what they will. Right. And again that's where the authenticity comes in. Do you think that there is a way to use quote unquote influencers in a way that is more authentic? If you could do it, if you were the person that was like, let me manage this for the Democratic Party, what could some of the things look like?
- [35:12]
David Roth
Yeah, well, I think that it has been done well in some cases. And who comes to mind? I don't know if you know my friend Kenny too. Raw2real is his username on TikTok and Twitter. He goes viral all the time and he's definitely been super engaged with Kamala Harris and he was during the campaign. And I look at that as a very different model than, you know, the other influencers that we think about. Sort of those young, like high school looking, you know, bro squad type kids where he is so original and he does his raps and he obviously has an amazing backstory, really tough background and lived experience. So he understands the policies. He, he goes and studies the facts in details. He can, you know, debate on and on about that. He's not regurgitating a talking point somebody gave him. He's coming up with creative, clever talking points that resonate and speak to his real life and people like that. And it goes viral. So too does it go viral when like, you know, some debate bros like, oh, here's a really tired point that I'm making and I'm saying it with a lot of energy and my mic in my face. But it doesn't win over anybody because it's not exciting, it's not interesting, it's not new. It's like great. This is what some 50 year old woman sitting at home on TikTok wishes young people were thinking. Like, and that's it. Like, same thing with all those influencers at the dnc, right? Like, who did they reach? Because if they were already pro Democratic influencers brought to the dnc, the people following them agree with everything they're saying. Like, so it's not that interesting.
- [36:41]
Kai von Schroff
Yeah.
- [36:42]
David Roth
Whereas I do think, by the way, I do think it was a good idea for Kamala Harris to go and call her daddy. Those are the types of moves that people should make. And Democrats are so afraid of all of those things. And like even that there was so much consternation and discussion and debate. She should have done a million of those. But I think on the other hand, when you think about policies too, it's not just about the comms approach. Right. Like tariffs is such a good example of this because I think every economist worth their weight knows what Trump is doing with tariffs does not make economic sense. It is not good for America, it is bad for everyday America. All of those things are in Democrats favor. So why is the issue not so clear cut? Because it's a new idea, it's a new fight, it's a new battle, it brings a lot of energy and people that are so desperate are willing to try anything. I mean, they're not going to analyze the impact of tariffs, they're just going to read headlines. Oh, Trump got a win today. Oh, Trump got a loss today. Oh, Trump backed off. Oh, he's doing it again, they don't really care. They're just like, let's shake the snow globe and see if something happens. Like, and that's terrible. But what are. If we're so smart, right? If Democrats are so educated and they're so wonky and all these things, what are some of the more exciting good new ideas? And AOC did bring some of that, whether I agree with all of them or not. But what are the new conversations we're having? How are we going to get headlines for ourselves that are not Joe Biden's age, Joe Biden's health, defending Joe Biden, attacking Trump? Because as much as I want to sit there all day and criticize what's happening, that nobody cares. Like, they really don't care. Like, we're not. Nobody cares. The people we need to care, care, don't care about those ideas.
- [38:16]
Kai von Schroff
And I think that that's right. I think that there are two things, you know, not two. There are several things that Democrats do that need to be shifted. And one of them is either a sitting back and saying that, oh, Donald Trump will just, you know, hang himself with the tariffs and with things and not engage at all and just hope and pray like political ostriches that eventually, when they take their heads out of the sand that things will be okay and the. And the people will say, well, I guess you're better than the alternative because that's not a winning strategy. And then number two is cosplaying what the right is doing and hoping that somehow that will go viral and spread on your side. And that's not working. My last question for you then is, when people are finding themselves and myself being included, to be disillusioned by the Democratic Party and seeing this country that they love ripped apart, right? Like the roots being pulled out and everything, all of our institutions crumbling around us, and this is what it is like to exist inside of a crumbling empire. Do you think that now is the time for the imagining of a really robust third party? That while these two parties are showing themselves to be absolutely inept in two different ways, is it time for a real third party?
- [39:33]
David Roth
Look, I think, you know, one of the things I've been thinking about is, like, should Democrats just rebrand? And I think it would come across like Facebook becoming meta. I mean, is anyone sold on that? Not really. And I think the problem is, no, we don't see. I don't see a viable third party coming. And by the way, of course, where are all those people that stop the Democrats from women winning cycle after cycle and they have all these different views, they should like go try it, right? Like now is that I don't think it's going to be successful. I don't think it's a great idea. But why aren't they doing that? Why aren't they trying to lead? Why aren't they doing any of those things? Because I think what we really need to do is get out of this sort of, you have to be in line with the entire Democratic Party platform to be a good person and a good Democrat. And that really has been the conversation as much. And you know, I've probably been part of that conversation. And you know, we're not all always perfect at that because sometimes things do strike the wrong way. But what I think those sort of right adjacent podcasters in that media framework have done is they've allowed people to hang on one policy issue that they like, one idea that they like, lean into a couple things that they think make sense and it's not. They have to check all the boxes. Of course, then just like the Democratic Party in leadership, you have to either get in line or not. And they certainly fall in line and they treat Trump like a king. So I'm not saying that's not the case, but they do allow some other voices and ideas with a mixed policy set to be there. And I think Democrats need to understand how to do that better. And I think part of the conversation is people are too afraid to speak up and disagree. They don't want to get canceled, quote, unquote. And of course that's been like a totally distorted conversation. But there's a little bit of energy in that. I think that is not inaccurate. And then on the other piece, I think Democrats, the leadership is so much less structured and organized and top down, as much as people feel that it is, than Republicans, where everything is being said and done by Trump and his team. And like it's like we're going to threaten you if you don't do it. Discipline, message discipline. Like one example, just to end with the plain story, right? Like Trump's taking this $400 million jet. It's so obviously corrupt, it's so obviously pay to play. But like it's example 5,000 of that and these voters already know that about Trump. So whether they read the headline or not, it's not going to move the needle. It's not going to be the last straw. They don't know how it's going to affect their daily lives like it surely will in time that he's, you know, chopping up and selling our government to foreign enemies like, duh, but why can't Democrats just get up there every time they're asked about that plane? If you say, you know what? But while we're talking about planes, did you notice that under the Trump administration, air travel has been worse than in previous decades? It's like we're devolving. You can't get to your destination, flights are being canceled, flights are not safe. Those are issues that affect people every single day that they do feel, that they do talk about at the office. That does affect their families and their holidays and their vacations. Right? So make it real every time. Take that bigger issue that some people care about that's worth talking about and.
- [42:39]
Kai von Schroff
Drill worth talking about.
- [42:41]
David Roth
But make it every day and do that with every single thing.
- [42:45]
Kai von Schroff
Yeah, we will have to leave it there today. Kai Von Strauf, I thank you so much for joining as the World Turns. This is fantastic and we hope to have you back very soon. Appreciate you.
- [42:58]
David Roth
Thank you.
- [43:00]
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- [44:05]
Andy Levy
David Roth is an editor at and co owner of Defector and co host of the Distraction Podcast. Jeb Lund is a journalist whose writing has appeared in such places as Truthdig, the Guardian, Vice, Rolling Stone, Gawker, and the New Republic. He's also the co host of the Quaid in Full podcast. And when a terrible explosion at a nuclear plant fused them together, Dave and Jeb gained control of the Firestorm matrix, allowing them to change the atomic structure of substances and transmute them into anything and Also turning them into the super co hosts of the It's Christmas Town podcast. And my next guest, Jave Jeb. Dave, welcome. Well, Jave is after when you fuse. That's your.
- [44:45]
Ryan Reynolds
Yes, that is us. That's when we use our superpowers to achieve a moderately popular, very infrequent podcast.
- [44:54]
Andy Levy
We are happy we had to go with J. Get get. Yeah, Deb was obviously didn't work. Okay. So last year, the dumbest person in cable news, Jesse Waters, got pretty widely ridiculed for listing his five rules of men, which are don't be that serious. Just be funny. You don't eat soup in public. You don't cross your legs. You don't drink from a straw. And one of the reasons you don't drink from a straw is the way your lips purse. It's very effeminate. And finally, you don't wave simultaneously with two hands. So Waters said the list was meant in fun because he's as funny as he is smart. And the reason we're talking about this ananity now is that last week Waters sent a producer with the there's no way that's real name of Johnny Bellisario to ask Republican legislators what they thought of the list. So let's talk about some examples of what these legislators said. The one that got the most attention was Tim Burchett from Tennessee Congressman. He said he doesn't drink out of a straw because, quote, that's what the women in my house do.
- [46:03]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah, that's female.
- [46:06]
Andy Levy
Thoughts, comments.
- [46:07]
Ryan Reynolds
So the one bit I want to add to this is that Tim Burchett is like famously the most normal Republican member of Congress. Like he's like a nice guy. He is personally friends with aoc. So this is, you have to assume that this is the highest functioning answer that anybody else that they ask and be like, the straw is like when a dick go in your mouth. Like, this is a guy who's probably going to give the best answer. And it's still like straws are. That's, that's female behaviors to me.
- [46:34]
Andy Levy
Right.
- [46:34]
Jeb Lund
And like there's no. I mean obviously, like the only rationale that could be working here is like that's, that's fellatio. That's fellating the food. Oh, and they have no provision for like what are. I mean, their wives and their children do that in the home. Are they allowed to do that at the Pizza Hut? Or is that provocative?
- [46:50]
David Roth
Yeah, right.
- [46:51]
Jeb Lund
And like where, where does the rationale end? Like, I don't ultimately. Like, I imagine that this guy Thinks that when Macho man was telling him to snap into it, he wanted. He wanted him to suck Macho Man's dick.
- [47:03]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah. And that's probably confused him for his whole life because it's not. That is in the text. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you watch the, the. The jerky ads that we're talking about here, I'm assuming that the people that are listening to this are all adults and so are familiar with Macho Man. Randy Savage's Slim Jim ads, if that's the thing they create. Go ahead. You gotta.
- [47:24]
Jeb Lund
You gotta follow the clues here. Macho man, that's like. That's a Village People thing, you know, that's two hands up in the air right there. So that's like.
- [47:30]
Ryan Reynolds
That's waving with two hands. Right. So that's your already 20% on the. The wrong side of the ledger there. The bit that I. The question of like, whether this behavior is allowed in Pizza Hut is really interesting to me. And the idea that we're moving towards a future where not even traditional American families, like, not people in dirndls, just people that spend too much time watching cable news, are going to eat everything the way that French people eat Ortolan, by like draping a napkin over their head so that they keep them out of like, the eyes of God and all those around them so that they can in effeminately enjoy a hot dog at a baseball game. Is really. It's a powerful image to me.
- [48:14]
Jeb Lund
Yeah. We might have been thinking about like, the culture of man caves all wrong. It's not about having your own private entertainment center. It's the only room in the house where you're allowed to eat a hot dog.
- [48:23]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah. And not have it be like, you.
- [48:25]
Jeb Lund
Know, you know, I don't want my children watching this.
- [48:29]
Ryan Reynolds
I wonder. I know that we're at a. At a bad spot. As you pointed out, Jesse Walters is not a guy that you should be taking advice from for any reason. But he is so obviously on his face, not the guy that you would like if you were his child. You wouldn't go up to him and be like, papa, like, how should a man be like, this is just.
- [48:49]
Jeb Lund
You ask it on Cole.
- [48:51]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah, right. Like just somebody else other than like, he is. And I say this as somebody who's, you know, cards on the table, friends with people from Connecticut, but Jesse Walters looks like, like if Connecticut had some sort of. It had the ability to. To excrete, that would be more or less what you would. Would be getting the Idea of like turning to that guy and being like, I feel like I've gone soft like you. Haircut.
- [49:13]
Andy Levy
What.
- [49:14]
Ryan Reynolds
What should I be doing to toughen my shit up? How can I get hands like yours?
- [49:18]
Jeb Lund
Yeah, yeah, I probably by applying a lot of styling wax every day.
- [49:22]
Andy Levy
Yeah, well, that's the thing. Like, Jesse Watters has a job where literally every day you wear makeup. Yes. And makeup is put on you by another person. Which again, fellas, not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that by his standards of these so called rules for men, you would think that that would be completely and utterly disqualifying. He also has, like, straight out of college, he got a job at Fox News. He has literally never worked anywhere else in his post college life. And so for him to be out there, you know, pretending he's one of these macho guys, you know, with, you know, strong hands and a strong back is just. It's utterly hilarious.
- [50:12]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah. It also has this. It makes me. I mean, I wouldn't say that I go so far as to feel bad for him, but this will. This is going to be a long, ish way to the point that I'm making. Do you remember when Adam Laroche was with the White Sox and he was making his little kid hang out in the locker room with the team all year? Little Drake LaRoche. This became an issue because the kid was like 11 years old and he should have been in school, but Adam was like, school's for. That's bullshit. Like, you're going to learn more watching Chris Sale come out of the shower than you would ever learn in middle school or whatever. And the team finally was like, we can't have, like, your. Your child is a child. You have to put him in school or homeschool him or something. But he can't be like, on the team, charter flight, playing cards with, you know, Rob Makoviak or whatever. I feel like what you just described as like, the Jesse Watters origin story is basically like if Drake Laroche had been like, if. If it was Bill O'Reilly's child. And it was like, he's gonna learn more skills for life if he's around elite sexual harassers from his very earliest days in the workforce. And so Jesse Waters was basically raised by guys that are kind of like. Like what kind of. All right, so obviously Ro Hypnal is a classic. What I would posit, again, that is those are the guys that taught him the values. He has the idea of being that far along now. And, I mean, maybe it's, like, impressive that he's capable of, like, having makeup put on him and not just kind of like, I don't know, running around screeching. And to mid.
- [51:42]
Jeb Lund
I'm just picturing him gassing himself up like Buffalo Bill at this point. Although he's just covering himself in taupe concealer. He looks like the. The. The interior design of the USS Enterprise.
- [51:53]
Ryan Reynolds
Dancing on video to Lee Greenwood's I'm proud to be an American.
- [52:00]
Andy Levy
That's right. While doing a Dennis Hopper from Blue Velvet thing with the mask.
- [52:07]
Jeb Lund
Would you support me?
- [52:08]
David Roth
I'd support me.
- [52:11]
Andy Levy
I want to talk about one other or a couple other Republican reactions to this list by. And we really have to discuss the fact that the producer's name is Johnny Bellisario.
- [52:23]
Ryan Reynolds
Johnny Belisario.
- [52:26]
Jeb Lund
It's a shame he couldn't reconquer the Italian peninsula, but I appreciate him trying to help out the empire that way.
- [52:31]
Andy Levy
Or at least. At least Vegas. So John Kennedy, Louisiana's version said, a man shouldn't eat kale at all. You know the best way to prepare kale, you mix a little olive oil in with the kale. That way it slides out of the pan very easily into the garbage.
- [52:48]
Ryan Reynolds
Oh, that's good. It's a classic bit.
- [52:50]
Andy Levy
We all hate kale. Classic bit. So props to him for that. But where do they come up with these things? Like, why. Why kale? Like, I'm. I'm sort of. I'm kelgnostic. Like, I don't care about kale.
- [53:05]
Ryan Reynolds
It's a weird thing to have an opinion about.
- [53:06]
Andy Levy
I don't care about your kale. That's not my. My.
- [53:10]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah, your feelings. I'm working on it. We can figure this out.
- [53:13]
Andy Levy
Care about your kaling.
- [53:14]
Ryan Reynolds
There you go. All right.
- [53:16]
Andy Levy
The kale with you.
- [53:17]
Jeb Lund
I don't know.
- [53:17]
Andy Levy
We'll get it. Yeah. He's doing it because there's a small post, right?
- [53:22]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah. Just add some bon mo's for me, would you? I know we're on a schedule and we gotta.
- [53:26]
Andy Levy
Yeah.
- [53:27]
Ryan Reynolds
That also feels, I think, that there is, like, a high quantum of frustrated standup comic in the conservative movement in general. Like, that feels like a kind of. Like, if you could train an AI on 10,000 hours of Jeff Foxworthy bits, you would get that particular kale joke. Like. And whether John Kennedy believes it or not is kind of unimportant to me. Like, whatever leafy greens he's doing, that's John Kennedy information as far as I'm concerned. But it does feel like the sort of thing where he's like, reaching for a bit that would appeal to an imaginary person. It's like basically the Republican version of the way Democrats say the phrase working families. It just happens in this case to be about some sort of reactionary coded food gripe. Right.
- [54:13]
Jeb Lund
But by the time it actually trickles down to be a reliable referent for all of his base, it's like 10 years out of date. So it's sort of, you know, like Kale had its hegemony at the start of the last decade. So it's kind of like coming out and just doing like left shark and cronut material.
- [54:28]
Ryan Reynolds
Yep. Yeah, it does have a kind of a that. Which I think is also kind of like part of the. The strategy there. Like, if he's on, like, he shouldn't know about whatever the actual food trends are. Like, if he did, that would be embarrassing and it would open room for a challenger on his right who's like, while John Kennedy is watching TikTok, you know, recipes, I am loading this gun. Like that is, you know, you can't leave yourself open like that.
- [54:55]
Andy Levy
Yeah. I just want to point out, Jeb, when you said, you said Kale and trickle in the same sentence and that, of course, I'm sure this is obvious, made me think of Cole Trickle.
- [55:04]
Ryan Reynolds
Yes.
- [55:05]
Andy Levy
The main character in Days of Thunder.
- [55:07]
Ryan Reynolds
Days of Thunder, Yeah.
- [55:09]
Jeb Lund
That's probably too current a reference though.
- [55:11]
Ryan Reynolds
Yes. For me to.
- [55:13]
Andy Levy
Yes, yes. You know, you mentioned the frustrated standup thing. And so that leads me nicely into something that I saw. Also over the weekend, Media Matters did a study in which they created a new TikTok account and they followed five right wing comedy podcast accounts. Nelk Boys, Full send the Joe Rogan experience Impaulsive with Logan Paul this past weekend with Theo Vaughn and Flagrant. They then watched and liked each account's 10 most recent videos. And then they analyzed what TikTok's FYP or for you page, what. What the algorithm fed them. And they looked at the first 425 videos on their FYP and found that 28% contained conspiracy theories, 16% promoted some variation of toxic masculinity. And then there were smaller numbers that pushed right wing media figures, medical information, doomsday prepper stuff, and maybe most surprisingly, only two videos containing racist content and one video with transphobic content. So let me ask you both a very considered and thought out question that I spent a lot of last night crafting. What do you make of this?
- [56:24]
Jeb Lund
I think you'd already have to be predisposed to believe some pretty stupid shit if you thought these people were funny.
- [56:30]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah, that's always been the confusing bit to me too, is like, I understand that the stuff is popular. I understand that there are things that are popular that will not appeal to me. The sort of, like, very, very low quality of the actual comedy involved, to me is, like, offensive more so than anything that they're saying. Like, I'm just sort of surprised that you're willing to sit there and like, Theo Von seems like the most charismatic of those guys to me. But also, every clip that I've seen from his show, it's like somebody that you recognize is there with him. So, like, Bernie Sanders is in one chair, and then in the other chair is just like a big dog that is making big dog sounds and faces in response to. So Bernie's like 99%. And then he's just like, huh? And that's the. That is it. Like, he's making Scooby Doo sounds and he's the. I think the best of those. If I had to pick one of them, I guess I just don't. I don't know what the. I mean, I guess it makes sense that I wouldn't know what the appeal is. I'm in my mid-40s, I have left wing politics, and I live in New York City. It's just. Is there some sort of way of understanding how this happened at least? Like, Joe Rogan has a lot of famous friends. The other guys are all just like, right. People that look like they played lacrosse at some point in their life, it.
- [57:40]
Jeb Lund
Feels like their template is sort of, how did this get made? But for reality, right? Where, like, if you just ask a couple of incredulous questions, everyone's supposed to laugh. And the. The label of, like, comedy podcast is there to trick you into thinking that you're doing something other than making yourself mad.
- [57:56]
Ryan Reynolds
Right.
- [57:56]
Jeb Lund
Like, if it was just like, this shit sucks the podcast, you probably wouldn't tune in. But, like, the.
- [58:01]
Ryan Reynolds
The little.
- [58:02]
Jeb Lund
The. The Ortolan drapery, I suppose hood of like, it's just a joke. Allows you to. To say, like, all right, I'm tuning in for two hours of just increasing my bile production.
- [58:13]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah.
- [58:13]
Jeb Lund
And not feel like you're doing something.
- [58:15]
Ryan Reynolds
Really stupid or like five hours. Like, that's the bit of it that I'm always kind of blown away about the idea of, like, just I under. You know, whatever. You spend a lot of time in your car. There's a lot of ways that you can consume 5 hours of audio over the course of the day. But, like, none of them are good for you. Like, none of those things are normal. Like, you shouldn't be listening to. Like, I don't think that I hear people talking for five hours a day. Like in real life, people. Like, if I'm on vacation with my family, probably, but that's. Now I'm getting like 30 hours of audio per day. But the idea of like just spending a lot of time in a kind of a parasocial way with people who are not really telling jokes and. But also I think, like, not really like evincing any kind of like coherent politics either. Just feels like it would leave you feeling confused and a little exhausted, I'd imagine. Not like this, which is very scripted.
- [59:05]
Andy Levy
Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for noticing. Yeah, it always, you know, I don't know where people find the time for this. I mean, when, when. By the time I'm done consuming my 10 hours of Stephen A. Smith content every day, yeah, I'm done. Like, you know, I have to eat at some point.
- [59:22]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah.
- [59:24]
Andy Levy
So, Dave, you asked, you know, sort of, you know, what is the appeal here of these people? And thankfully the Democrats are trying to figure that out.
- [59:37]
Ryan Reynolds
Thank you.
- [59:38]
Andy Levy
As we speak on Sunday, the New York Times published a piece about the Democrats efforts to win back working class voters, including specifically outreach to men. I'll quote from the piece written by Shane Goldmacher. Democratic donors and strategists have been gathering at luxury hotels to discuss how to win back working class voters. The prospectus for one new $20 million effort aims to reverse the erosion of Democratic support among young men, especially online. It's codenamed Sam, short for Speaking with American A Strategic Plan and promises investment to, quote, study the syntax, logic and content that gains attention and virality in these spaces. And it says, above all, we must shift from a moralizing tone. So there's your answer, Dave. The Democratic Party is on it and they are studying the syntax, language and content that gains attention and virality in this spaces.
- [60:45]
Ryan Reynolds
And it only costs all that for only $20 million. That's amazing.
- [60:51]
Andy Levy
But wait, there's more. Yeah, no, I just love that they've written, apparently commissioned a study that is written in the worst possible language and syntax. In order to study the syntax and.
- [61:06]
Ryan Reynolds
Language, like you're not contacting the Sentinelese, like, this isn't the sort of thing where you're going there, mapping out a language that no one's ever spoken before. I would have to be paid $20 million to listen intensely to all the podcasts that you listed earlier over the course of the year. I would want to get paid like a Major League baseball third starter to do that. And so that. The money part makes sense. The rest of it, though, the idea that there's somehow this. I think that you can sort of see this. I remember, like, immediately after the election, the two moves that the Democrats had were complain about how woke they had gotten, and then also random senators started saying the F word in. Like, they were just like, whatever. I'm trying to think of. Is it Dana Nestle? No, there was some. One of the. The Michigan slot. No, not Slotkin. Who am I talking.
- [61:54]
Jeb Lund
Yeah, Slotkin said bullshit.
- [61:56]
Andy Levy
Yes.
- [61:57]
Ryan Reynolds
That's what it was.
- [61:57]
Jeb Lund
This is all just like downstream of. What was it? Perez, the. The DNC chair back in 2017 who was like, we're not fucking around anymore.
- [62:06]
David Roth
Yeah.
- [62:06]
Jeb Lund
Like the guy who was chewing out Jerry Lundegaard about the crew coat. You're like, oh, we all talk like that.
- [62:12]
David Roth
Yep.
- [62:13]
Jeb Lund
That's what you're saying it for the first day in our lives. Right on.
- [62:18]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah, that's. I think, the idea of that being like, how they're. They're coaching these guys up. Like they have some whatever, a mini camp. They get a bunch of senators, put them in a dorm, and then they're just breaking down tape of Ned Flanders getting upset and being like, this is about you. So just figure out how to do that. That's what. That's what people respect.
- [62:34]
Jeb Lund
Like, I feel like the. The really simple answer from this study is they're going to be like, all right, we got to design an F350 with giant tires. It has huge on the front and a swastika in the back, and it explodes. Like, those are the things that all reach men.
- [62:48]
David Roth
Yep.
- [62:49]
Ryan Reynolds
Homer car it. Right. It works. Every. The thing that, I mean, just to give a more slightly more serious answer to all of this, like, the one thing that you can't do if you want to figure this particular problem out is spend $20 million studying it. Like, that guarantees that it is not going to happen. Whereas I think the challenge. And this is like, you know, fundamentally a thing that the Democrats have a lot invested in not understanding is that, like, you. The one thing that we know does not work is like, talking like an elected Democrat, like, speaking in a way where you're saying all of these kind of uncanny brown note catchphrases that are basically like half of Democrat communication at this point. Like, the thing that, I guess you would give Theo Vaughn credit for. Is that like, he authentically seems like a person who is also a dog. Like, he's not pretending to do that, you know, like. So I think that the idea of having people that are expressing beliefs that align with the stated goals of the Democratic Party doesn't seem like a problem until you run into the fact that those goals are at this point incomprehensible and seemingly not fully felt either. Like, the one thing you can't do if you're trying to communicate in an authentic way is not have authentic positions. And I think that that's going to be. There's no amount of money you can spend that's going to get you over that. I don't feel like.
- [64:09]
Andy Levy
Right.
- [64:09]
Jeb Lund
It's like making the entire sitcom out of the standards and practices department and just cutting the writers out of it. Like whatever product you have is going to come out sounding like that. Like sounding like something that isn't funny.
- [64:21]
David Roth
Yep.
- [64:22]
Ryan Reynolds
But guaranteed compliance. There's not going to have any problem there. I don't know what to, to like. Obviously I know that a lot of high level Democratic donors and Democratic National Committee members are listening to this right now, which puts the pressure on. It's why I feel like I.
- [64:36]
Andy Levy
Yes.
- [64:37]
Ryan Reynolds
If it seems like I've been stammery or anxious, it's because I'm concerned that the guy, that the Netflix guy is listening to it. The thing with all of this is I think that there's like the money that you could spend studying the problem would go a lot longer and do a lot more if it were invested in like actual people who create stuff. I think certainly also in like local media, like part of the reason you can win with a 5 hour podcast where like a comedian with a 97 IQ smokes DMT at the beginning of it and gets progressively more insane as it goes on is that like there's not. You can compete with that. Like you can't compete with it by having that same type of person smoke DMT and then talk about targeted tax credits. But you could make something better. There's better shit out there. Like, just find the people that are doing that sort of thing. Maybe they're even doing it in the form of a Hallmark podcast and give them, you know, the few million dollars. I just feel like it's a lot easier to work in conservative media than it is anywhere else.
- [65:39]
Andy Levy
Oh, for sure, for sure. But as you said, I think it's Christmas Town is gonna fix all this. We are out of time. Dave and Jeb, as always, an absolute Pleasure. And I will see you online.
- [65:54]
Ryan Reynolds
Thanks for having us.
- [65:55]
Jeb Lund
Thanks for having us.
- [65:55]
Andy Levy
Yeah.
- [65:58]
Kai von Schroff
Andy, it is the beginning of a new fabulous week in America. This crumbling empire that we're living inside of. How are you kicking it off with your fuck that guy?
- [66:11]
Andy Levy
Well, it is. It's week four of as the World Churns. I'm hoping that at some point in the future, things will be dated that way. It'll be like, you know, like we use BC and ad.
- [66:23]
Kai von Schroff
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
- [66:25]
Andy Levy
Atwc. And we'll say like, this is three. Atwc. My fuck that guy is the odd Fuck that guy. That actually is kind of good.
- [66:37]
Kai von Schroff
Okay, well, this is exciting.
- [66:39]
Andy Levy
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it takes place in the state of Utah, and in 2023, Spencer Cox, who was the governor of that state, signed a bill that was passed by the legislature ordering the Utah Health Department to take a look at the medical evidence around the treatments of puberty blockers and hormone therapy given to trans kids with gender dysphoria. Obviously, the idea of this bill, not so much from Spencer Cox, who, as Mother Jones reports, was actually not that bad on trans issues. But he sort of caved to the Republican legislature, who very much was assuming and wanted this study to show that gender affirming care for trans youth was a bad thing. So that was 2023. The review just came out. Lo and behold, the review says that the consensus of the evidence supports that the treatments are effective in terms of mental health, psychosocial outcomes, and the induction of body changes consistent with the affirmed gender in pediatric gender dysphoria patients. In other words, these treatments are good. These treatments are helping trans youth. They are helping them in terms of their mental health. They are helping them to become the person that they are on the inside, and they are helping them with regard to fitting in to society at large as the person that they are. So you get this whole thing that was done mainly because the people who wanted it done wanted it to show that all these treatments should be banned. And it came out with just the opposite. And so now you have the legislators who wanted this study. Again, as Mother Jones reports, Katie Hall, a representative in the Utah legislature, she co sponsored the 2023 ban on these treatments for trans youth. She issued a joint statement saying that they intend to keep the moratorium in place. So they are completely dismissing the study that they commissioned. And they are still saying the science isn't there and the risks are real, even after the study that they commissioned says the science.
- [69:21]
Kai von Schroff
The science is there. Yeah.
- [69:22]
Andy Levy
And the risks are not real. So my fuck that guy obviously goes to these state legislators. But at least the good news is that this review was actually done apparently with care and non ideologically and showed that everything that these bigots wanted and believed was completely wrong. So fuck those guys.
- [69:48]
Kai von Schroff
But now that the study disproves their lack of science based bigotry, they're saying, well the report doesn't. It's kind of inconclusive like I guess because the report wasn't done by RFK junior approved scientists and statisticians then it doesn't have any bearing for for them. Just goes to show you there is no basis for their bigotry other than their hate. The science doesn't back it up. Fuck those guys.
- [70:19]
Andy Levy
Fuck those guys. All right Danielle, who you got for us here on this holiday week? Who's your fault?
- [70:26]
Kai von Schroff
Well you know, I'll say this, we haven't talked about them enough on our fabulous month old show. As the world churns, I think we've given mainstream corporate media a reprieve and I would like to bring them back into our marbled hall of fuck that guy. Now why is that? Well, there are so many reasons, but on today I will provide one. There's a story in Newsweek that says AOC edges out Chuck Schumer by double digit margin in new poll. So there have been these polls that are going around that are showcasing whether or not Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, if she decided to take on Chuck Schumer who has spent the last two decades plus in the Senate, whether or not she could be viable. And what these polls are showing, one after the other after the other is that this tour that she has been on with Bernie Sanders to really introduce her to the American people on her own terms, right on top of her social media prowess, is really showing that this 35 year old has absolutely everything that it takes to take on this 74 year old septenagerian who, who has no new ideas. I couldn't tell you the last time Chuck Schumer offered a new idea to Democrats. My fuck that guy is to the mainstream media because for so long they have tried to paint AOC as the anti Democrat as, as she is, not the face of the Democratic Party, that people don't like her, that she's not appealing to anyone outside of her congressional district, that she doesn't have staying power, that she's not going to be a sustainable candidate, on and on and on. And what she continues to show, and now what the polls are beginning to reflect is what people saw in her first win, she is something special. She has something real to offer the American people, that she has a vision for the future that is not about stance, creating a stance on reaction, but one that is proactive about the kind of America that we actually want and the kind of America that we should be fighting for. It is an economic message, it is a progressive message, and it is an authentic message. And I hope that as these polls continue to come out and maybe she decides and actually says that she does want to run for, for the Senate seat, that the narrative will shift. Because how she's been painted is not who she is. And who she is is what people are embracing around the country. With these 30,000, 20,000 kind of sold out Stop the Oligarchy tour that she's been on with Bernie Sanders just shows how hungry people are for change inside of the Democratic Party. And she is one of the many names that continue to rise to the top. And I hope that instead of saying, oh, will this be a mistake for Democrats, that the narrative changes. So for that reason and so many others, my fuck that guy is to the mainstream media because they got their original story, their villain, that they wanted to turn AOC into absolutely wrong. The polls and the people are proving to have their finger on the pulse outside of what mainstream corporate media tries to feed them. So fuck those guys.
- [73:56]
Andy Levy
Yeah, it is wild how much the mainstream media looks to the Republican Party to set its agenda. And, you know, when you had Republicans out there, I remember, I'm sure you do, too. Republicans very much wanted to make AOC the face of the Democratic Party. I am hopeful and I'm starting to think it'll be reality that that is going to bite them in the ass big time. But the media is always, well, Republicans really don't like aoc. She's divisive. But when Democrats really don't like someone, they're not. It's, well, have the Democrats moved too far to the left, you know, to not like this person? It's just always the Republicans setting the agenda. The interesting thing about this poll that shows AOC beating Chuck Schumer by 21 points, which, first of all, the Newsweek article, The headline is, AOC edges out Chuck Schumer by 21 points. I don't think they know what edges out means. It's not just a synonym for beats. Like, it means it's close, and this ain't close. But the interesting thing to me about this poll is, which was done by the Jewish Voters Action Network, is that among Jewish Democratic voters in New York City AOC beat Schumer for 45 to 33. That is huge because I will speak openly. I have been an AOC fan for a long time. I know a lot of Jews who have not been. To see that kind of shift towards her and away from Chuck Schumer of all people, first of all, it's heartening and I'm glad to see it. And welcome. I think that's huge because that is an absolute sea change and that does not bode well for Schumer at all. I mean, look, he's not up for re election until 2028. So you know, we got some time on this. But of anything in that poll that to me should disturb Chuck Schumer the most. And I don't feel bad about that.
- [76:00]
Kai von Schroff
That guy.
- [76:03]
Danielle Moody
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David Roth
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- [76:45]
Ryan Reynolds
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