Is The Window To Fight Back Closing

Summary

Podcast Title: As The World Churns
Episode Title: Is The Window To Fight Back Closing
Release Date: May 20, 2025
Hosts: Andy Levy and Danielle Moodie

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Introduction

In this episode of "As The World Churns," hosts Andy Levy and Danielle Moodie navigate through a tumultuous landscape of political unrest, governmental actions, and societal challenges. With insightful discussions and expert interviews, they aim to provide clarity amidst the chaos.

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Joe Biden's Cancer Diagnosis and Public Reaction

Danielle opens the discussion with the concerning news of former President Joe Biden's diagnosis of stage four prostate cancer, which has metastasized to his bones. She emphasizes the universal impact of cancer and criticizes both political figures for their handling of cancer research and public perception.

• Notable Quote:
  Danielle (02:58): "It's terrible. But as he said in his post, that cancer touches everybody, touches every family."

Andy echoes the condolences and addresses the conspiracy theories surrounding the timing and severity of Biden's diagnosis. He encourages listeners to disregard misinformation and highlights the complexities of medical decisions for the elderly.

• Notable Quote:
  Andy Levy (04:08): "You don't have to be a keyboard warrior on this one. Just hope that he doesn't experience a lot of pain."

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Supreme Court Rulings on Immigration Policies

The conversation pivots to recent Supreme Court decisions impacting immigration, specifically blocking Donald Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act to expedite deportations and allowing the stripping of temporary protective status from over 300,000 Venezuelan migrants.

Danielle critiques the administration's rhetoric equating immigration issues to a war, undermining due process and humanizing immigrants. She questions the implications of these rulings on democracy and civil rights.

• Notable Quote:
  Danielle (10:47): "Donald Trump's been on a tear the last few days, Danielle. Shocking."

Andy clarifies the Supreme Court's decisions, noting that while the ruling temporarily halts Trump's deportation efforts, another decision permits the removal of protective status, raising concerns about executive overreach and national security justifications.

• Notable Quote:
  Andy Levy (08:57): "The Supreme Court is saying there's nothing we can do about that. They have every right to do that because they are the ultimate decider of national security."

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Impact of Trump's Social Media Actions

The hosts discuss Donald Trump's recent activities on his social media platform, Truth Social, including cryptic posts perceived as threats against political opponents like James Comey. Danielle passionately defends the term "86," emphasizing its traditional meanings over the violent interpretations some are attributing to it.

• Notable Quote:
  Danielle (12:35): "I waited tables for many years, and I will tell you that 86 people means exactly all of the ways that you described it."

Andy highlights the hypocrisy within the MAGA movement, pointing out Trump's historical use of threatening imagery against opponents and the lack of accountability for such actions.

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Interview with Amal Sinha, Executive Director of ACLU of New Jersey

Danielle welcomes Amal Sinha to discuss the recent arrest of Mayor Ras Baraka by ICE agents during a press conference, analyzing it as a politically motivated attack by the Trump administration against dissenting officials.

• Notable Quote:
  Amal Sinha (22:27): "The arrest that we saw on video, clear as daylight, was brutal."

Amal elaborates on the systemic erosion of the rule of law under the current administration, emphasizing the targeted nature of such arrests against political opponents and the broader implications for democracy.

• Notable Quote:
  Amal Sinha (26:14): "The Trump administration has basically said that they are going after people who disagree with them."

Danielle probes deeper into the administration's use of political theater to intimidate other mayors and governors, questioning the long-term impact on state-level governance and federal-state relations.

• Notable Quote:
  Amal Sinha (34:01): "We need more coordination. We need a cohesive message. We need to make sure that we are all pushing back wherever we can, as loudly as we can."

Amal calls for increased coordination among like-minded states and urges individuals to get involved with organizations like the ACLU to combat these authoritarian tendencies.

• Notable Quote:
  Amal Sinha (37:04): "The ACLU cannot do this work alone. We've already, since day one of this administration, filed over 110 lawsuits."

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Co-host Jared Sexton Joins the Conversation

Danielle introduces Jared Sexton, author of The Midnight Kingdom and editor at large for the Substack Dispatches from a Collapsing State. Jared shares his perspectives on the accelerated authoritarianism under Trump's second administration and the Democratic Party's struggle to effectively oppose these measures.

• Notable Quote:
  Jared Sexton (41:29): "We are in the middle of an accelerated class war."

Jared analyzes the dysfunctional alliance between the authoritarian administration and the oligarchy, explaining how economic pressures and political maneuvers contribute to societal instability.

• Notable Quote:
  Jared Sexton (46:27): "Authoritarians are inherently dysfunctional and messy and absurd. They're not actually the great lawbringers."

The discussion delves into the awakening of American consciousness regarding systemic injustices and the necessity for collective action to preserve democratic values.

• Notable Quote:
  Jared Sexton (52:32): "White Americans do not like that. And whiteness. There's a reason why the white supremacist project in the United States of America go together like rancid peanut butter and chocolate."

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Economic Policies and Tariff Wars

Danielle and Andy critique Donald Trump's aggressive tariff policies, highlighting the unrealistic expectation that corporations like Walmart would absorb the costs instead of passing them onto consumers. They discuss the broader economic implications, including potential stagflation and recession.

• Notable Quote:
  Danielle (66:38): "Donald Trump's economic plan was going to cause unnecessary economic duress on the American people because a tariff is nothing more than a consumer tax."

Andy underscores the administration's self-inflicted economic problems, lamenting the shortsighted policies that endanger public safety and fiscal stability.

• Notable Quote:
  Andy Levy (73:27): "This administration is just continuously and continually shooting itself in the foot, shooting America in the head."

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Conclusion and "Fuck That Guy" Segment

Wrapping up the episode, Andy and Danielle express their frustration with current political and economic leaders, emphasizing the dire consequences of their policies on everyday Americans.

• Notable Quote:
  Danielle (66:38): "I think that more people will have to experience a whole lot of pain and a whole lot of loss of life for people to actually understand what Donald Trump is doing."

Andy concludes with a targeted critique against the administration for undermining crucial services like the National Weather Service, linking budget cuts to increased vulnerability during natural disasters.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "As The World Churns" provides a comprehensive examination of the current political and economic climate in the United States. Through passionate discussions and expert insights, Andy Levy and Danielle Moodie shed light on the challenges facing democracy, civil rights, and societal well-being, urging listeners to stay informed and actively participate in safeguarding their future.

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Note: This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions within the episode.

Transcript

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[Danielle]

So, folks, over the weekend we got some really sad news, which is that former President Joe Biden has been diagnosed with stage four prostate cancer that has spread to his bones. And while the New York Times and others are reporting and obviously interviewing with different medical experts, what we can conclude is that Biden, along with the first lady and their family are deciding on a course of treatment. Joe Biden is 81 years old. And as he was leaving office, we know that the reason that he dropped out of the race was because of thoughts around his health and his cognition. It's terrible. But as he said in his post, that cancer touches everybody, touches every family. And we're living at a time when everything that we eat, everything that we breathe in, everything that is being consumed, put on our skin, what have you, is cancer causing. And you know, and Donald Trump has also cut cancer research, a disease that literally touches every single family. So my condolences, our condolences, you know, to Biden and his family on this diagnosis and hope that, as some doctors say, that with the Right. Treatment. He will be able to, you know, live out the rest of his life without pain or significant disruption.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah. You know, I'll obviously echo the condolences and, you know, sending thoughts out to the family. And I guess the only thing I would add is we've already seen sort of a rush to maybe you call them conspiracy theories, whatever you want to call them, like, like trying to figure out, like, well, how did they just pick this up now, how, you know, if it's stage four, which is what they're saying it is, doesn't that mean it's been in his system for a long time and shouldn't it be picked up? Look, there's a lot of factors here. And, and I would just, you know, there are going to be bad actors who are just going to jump right in and, you know, and when I say bad actors, I don't mean bad actors with medical degrees or cancer researchers. I mean bad actors, you know, who are like, say the right wing equivalent of, Of. Of us. Danielle. I would just encourage everyone to ignore the hell out of them and, you know, just be chill and we can see what's what. But I do know that there are a variety of reasons why after you hit a certain age, they stop doing certain tests on you.

[Danielle]

Yep.

[Andy Levy]

And, you know, I know this from personal experience with my parents. And 80 is usually that, you know, that sort of breaking point or cutoff point where they say, no, it's not worth doing the test cause there's nothing we could do anyway. Or, you know, there's various things. So I would just encourage everyone to take a step back. You don't have to be a keyboard warrior on this one. Just hope that he doesn't experience a lot of pain. And that's it. Really.

[Danielle]

Yeah. So speaking of experiencing a lot of pain, which is just your average day in America these days and following the Supreme Court. So the Supreme Court has come out with, with two different rulings that I, you know, again, I say this on this show. I'm not an attorney. Right. But to me, they're wildly contradictory. Again, not a constitutional lawyer. So the Supreme Court first blocks the Trump administration's ability to use the Alien Enemies act as a way to back his deportation schemes. Right. Because the idea has been that this administration has said, and they use language, and we have to pay attention to the language that is consistently used, that there is an invasion, that there is a war that is happening against immigrants, that they are seizing our country, et cetera, et cetera. They use this language for a reason. And it is to conjure the idea that we are at war. Right. And that we need to treat our immigration issues as a war. The Supreme Court has ruled and has blocked Donald Trump's ability to use this Frankenstein act, resurrected from, what is it, the 18th or the 19th century, as a way to expedite the deportations of people. Those that are in Trump's camp have said things like, you know, quote, the Supreme Court still has an illegal injunction on the President of the United States, preventing him from commanding military operations to expel these foreign terrorists. This that came from attorney Mike Davis, a close ally with Donald Trump and the founder of the Article 3 project. The reality here is that these people are liars. I don't know how you would know if they're terrorists, because this administration, Andy, has also said they don't need to utilize due process. So, again, are we just going on your word for it because you've done no actual fact finding and background checks on these people for us to actually legitimately back what it is that you're saying?

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, for sure. And I think it's important to note that the Supreme Court ruling on the, on the Alien Enemies act wasn't necessarily that Trump couldn't eventually use that to deport people. It basically stopped him from using it to deport people while litting litigation is working its way through the courts. So basically, lower courts had said, hey, while this is being tried, we're putting a stay on, you can't deport these people while we are litigating whether or not you have the right to deport these people. Which is obviously common sense. And as we've learned, the Trump's administration has consistently been, once we deport them, we can't bring them back, even if you tell us we have to. We're seeing that happen now. So that's what the Supreme Court said on the Alien Enemies Act. They basically stopped the Trump administration from, at this moment, using that to deport people. And that was a good ruling. And it was seven, two. And I think if I gave you two guesses as to who the two dissenters were, you'd nail it in two seconds. Cause it's too easy. But that was a good decision. And it was the, you know, it was this. The decision that was before the court. The court at that point and at this point has not been asked to rule on the actual merits. It's just, you know, they're just putting a hold on it right now. So then on Monday, the court comes out and says that the Trump administration can strip what's called a temporary protective status from over 300,000 Venezuelan migrants who were granted that by America because he wants to deport them asap. And it's harder to, obviously, harder to deport people who have a temporary protective status. And the court said that that's okay.

[Danielle]

Yep.

[Andy Levy]

So I know we were talking about this before we aired, and it does seem like there's a bit of a disconnect going on here. But I guess, I mean, they're two separate cases. And look, I'm not happy about this second, this new Supreme Court ruling. And basically the government, the Justice Department, has been arguing that when it comes to foreign affairs, if the Homeland Secretary or the president orders something, the courts cannot review them because they are a matter of national security, and that only the executive branch can determine that. And the court is basically agreeing with them here. The court is saying, yes, if the executive branch, whether it's the president, whether it's the head of Homeland Security, says we're stripping the status of these people. And the Supreme Court is saying there's nothing we can do about that. They have every right to do that because they are the ultimate decider of national security. This is obviously very scary because as you pointed out, Danielle, they keep calling people terrorists and saying they're a threat to this country and talking about invasions. And we know that that is not true for at least some of the people they're talking about, if not most of them or all of them. And as you said, also, it becomes this catch 22 because it's like, well, then, you know, if you think they're terrorists, prove it. And the government's like, no, we don't have to prove it. We don't have to give them due process because they're terrorists. And so it's a fucked up situation. Obviously, I would have hoped that the court said, no, you can't just unilaterally, you know, you can't wave a magic wand and say these people are terrorists and therefore we're stripping them of temporary protective status. But the court, in essence, is saying.

[Danielle]

Yes, you can, and that shouldn't be the case.

[Andy Levy]

So Donald Trump's been on a tear the last few days, Danielle.

[Danielle]

Shocking.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, no, I know, I know. And you know, you always hate to say, even for him, this is unhinged, because everything he does is unhinged at this point. So I'm not going to say that. But he has been posting left and right on his. What was it you always used to call it?

[Danielle]

His busted ass, his broke down social media platform.

[Andy Levy]

Social media site. Yeah. Truth Social. The first thing we saw was in response to James Comey, the former FBI director, retweeted on Twitter. Oh, I'm sorry, this was on Instagram. He put a picture of seashells on a beach, and the seashells spelled out the number 8647, which I thought is what happened when you try to dial Jenny, but you misdial. Because I'm old. But it said that. And then it had a caption that read, cool shell formation on my beachwalk. So people are saying that 8, 6, 4, 7. That the 47 refers to Donald Trump because he's the 47th president. And that 86 is. Which a lot of people may know is like a slang term that servers use, that restaurant staff.

[Danielle]

It is a restaurant lingo.

[Andy Levy]

Right? I've always heard it with, like, if someone orders something but they don't want. Like, if they want a hamburger, you say hamburger. 86 the onions.

[Danielle]

Correct.

[Andy Levy]

You know, or. Or whatever. It's also a term used for throwing people out of, like, a bar or something. Like 86 that. Dude. There is a definition of 86 that has sort of come into play recently that goes a little further and basically means to kill someone, to 86 them, like, from life. And so Donald Trump and the MAGA world are very upset about this. And I believe it was Tulsi Gabbard said that James Comey should be in jail for this.

[Danielle]

Danielle, you know what? I would like them all, because I'm feeling generous today to shut the fuck up. Okay? And let me just very quickly say why. One, I waited tables for many years, and I will tell you that 86 people means exactly all of the ways that you described it. It means to get rid of. We're done, it's out, we're out of it. Blah, blah, you 86 that thing, okay? So let's stop with the fucking faux outrage and the bullshit that MAGA does, because first of all, if I were James Comey, I would not have taken down the post. And here's the reason why. Because we can run through just a few of the things that Donald Trump has threatened with the power of the presidency behind him. Most recently, as Bruce Springsteen is on European tour, he has been speaking out about the state of American politics, right? And about what is happening inside of this country as people are being picked off, off of the street, as people are losing their rights, as women are losing their rights, et cetera, et cetera. And he's speaking out about that. And what Has Donald Trump said that maybe he's going to have a difficult time getting back in the country? Okay, that is a threat to a citizen of these United States. Donald Trump has threatened Taylor Swift. He's also harassed her on social media. Right? So again, Donald Trump has the ability to say and do whatever he wants with his, quote, unquote, free speech. But if someone were to then exercise their right and privilege that our Constitution gives us, then all of a sudden those people need to be in jail, that network needs to be shut down, those people need to be arrested, et cetera, et cetera. If you cannot dish it, then shut the fuck up. Right? Like that is my offering to the Tulsi Gabbards, to the Kristi Gnomes, to the Donald Trumps, to the Juniors, to the Elon Musk. You all are thin skinned motherfuckers who cannot take anything. Now, if somebody actually has a credible threat against you, great, you have the authority to investigate that. But the reality is, is that Donald Trump has put up more threats in the last few weeks against CBS, against 60 Minutes, against networks, performers, has picked up innocent people off of the street, thrown them in detention, et cetera, et cetera, using the power of the presidency. Oh, and that was what he was indicted for multiple times over as well. So miss me with it. James Comey should not have removed the picture. He should have doubled down and been like, and what? I have the right to express my opinions and views. So says the Constitution, while we still have it.

[Andy Levy]

Thanks. How many seats would you say they should take, Danielle?

[Danielle]

I don't know. How many seats do we have? How many seats do we have?

[Andy Levy]

They should take all the seats.

[Danielle]

They should take all of them.

[Andy Levy]

Okay, that's fair. Yeah. Look, there's two separate things here, as there always is in these stories. There's the thing that happened and then there's the MAGO world response to it. And absolutely what you say about the MAGA world response, like, we know that hypocrisy is built in to that movement. It's not a huge deal to call them out for it. They don't care. But the idea, I seem to remember back during the, I think it was during the presidential campaign before Biden dropped out. Donald Trump reposting some, I don't remember if it was AI generated or animated thing of him, like beating Joe Biden in a wrestling ring and, and think like, like choking him out or putting him in a sleeper hold. There was something and it's like, oh.

[Danielle]

So that's okay, you know, oh, remember from our hometown. He also retweeted the picture that somebody had on Long island of their pickup truck with a bound and gagged Biden as, like, a decal on their car. Donald Trump retweeted that, so that was okay, too.

[Andy Levy]

It's, of course, the height of hypocrisy, but everything they do is hypocritical, so whatever. Look, when I first heard this story, I, of course, I think anyone who's waited tables said, oh, by 86, he means we need to remove him from the presidency. It's the equivalent of saying, impeach him. That's basically what it means. I certainly was unaware of the fact that there are people who now use 86 to mean actual violence. And I think that was Comey also. And maybe it's an age thing. Like, maybe it's just a. You know, that would have never entered my mind that that's what people were reading into it. So I'm not quite, you know, I understand Comey taking it down. If people pointed out to him, hey, this has become a meaning of 86, and he was like, oh, I didn't know that. And that's not what I meant. So I'm just going to take it down. I'm fine with that. There is absolutely no reason that the former head of the FBI, James Comey, has to be investigated by the Secret Service or anything like that. It's insane to, you know, to even insinuate or to think that he was insinuating violence of any kind. He very clearly wasn't. Everybody knows that. The people who are claiming he did know that he didn't. You know, this is just. This is just a thing for them to get angry about, because, like you said, they are the thinnest skinned people in the world. And that's what this all comes down to. Bruce Springsteen says something not nice about Donald Trump. Donald Trump erupts. Taylor Swift, who. I don't even know how she got dragged into this again, because she hasn't said anything recently. She has made her feelings about Donald Trump clear. So he doesn't like her. Beyonce is another one. Donald Trump is now saying that Beyonce and. And Springsteen and some other artists were, like, paid by the Kamala Harris campaign to endorse her, and that that's illegal. First of all, it's not illegal. Second of all, there's no evidence that she paid Beyonce or Bruce Springsteen or anyone to endorse her.

[Danielle]

So you don't have to pay people to dislike Donald Trump. Right. We'll do it for free.

[Andy Levy]

The thing is, in Donald Trump world, and we've talked about this before, everything is transaction. So he looks at something like that and he looks around and he thinks this guy's endorsing me because he wants a favor from me or I did this for them so they're doing this for me. Everything to him is transactional. So he cannot comprehend that people might have endorsed Kamala Harris because either A, they liked her or B, they just couldn't stand his dumb ass. So he doesn't get that. But, but this is, you know, when he was running, he kept saying, I am your retribution. That's what this is. This is retribution. And this is who he is. We know that.

[Danielle]

You know what, there aren't enough seats. There aren't enough curse words for us to fully say what it is that we'd like to say on this issue.

[Andy Levy]

But you know, overflow crowd at Madison Square Garden. Danielle, right seats.

[Danielle]

Take them. Donald Trump and company.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Danielle]

Folks I am very happy to welcome to as the World churns. The executive director of ACLU of New Jersey, Amal Sinha. Amal, let me just say this a few weeks ago, because time is a construct that I don't have a handle on anymore. But a few weeks ago, Mayor Ras Baraka was arrested by ICE agents because him, alongside some of his colleagues, were asking for requesting access to a detention center in his jurisdiction, wanting to know what is happening on the inside of this detention center, how are the people being treated, what conditions are they being forced to endure, et cetera. Not only was he arrested, he was actually, from my eyes, from my vantage point of the video that I saw, physically accosted by Ice Age gents and roughed up, Right. And when the Trump administration was asked about, right, the physicality of the ICE agents, they put that on the mayor and said that it was his fault. He was told to stand down. He did not. When you saw that, what did you make of the videos? What did you make of the arrest?

[Amal Sinha]

Well, first of all, Daniel, thank you so much for having me, and thank you to, as the world trends for covering this issue. Look, the arrest that we saw on video, clear as daylight, was brutal. We saw, you know, members of Congress, as you mentioned, and Ras Baraka come together to hold a press conference. And they were invited in. You know, after some negotiation, they were invited into the facility to Delaney hall. And. And then when the agents decided that Mayor Baraka was not welcome, they decided to tell him that he had to leave, and he calmly exited, according to the video. And he was on the other side of the fence when the officers, I think they were with the Department of Homeland Security, they decided to swarm him and. And arrest him and drag him out and put him in cuffs. It was surprising, to say the least, and jarring to watch. We had colleagues there on the ground during that interaction, and we were fearful as to what would happen to other people that were there. But what we saw was only the mayor was targeted and only the mayor was arrested. And now there are rumors flying about that the members of Congress may be facing charges in the future. But the Trump administration is basically taking an instance of a press conference and a tour of a facility that was, by the way, it's authorized for members of Congress to conduct oversight, including unannounced visits in detention centers. They're taking what is a legal right, a right of Congress members to conduct oversight and the right of the mayor to know what's going on in his own backyard and weaponizing it to target their political opponents. The Trump administration has Basically said that they are. And on several instances during the campaign and after the campaign, they've said that they will go after people who disagree with them. They, they've said that they will go after people who will dissent from the Trump administration's agenda. And here we're seeing it, I think, in real time, where, where Mayor Barack was targeted. Look, he, he is the mayor of the biggest city in New Jersey. It happens to be one of these so called sanctuary cities. He's put up some protections in the city to protect immigrant residents. And we're a part of New Jersey, which is one of the most welcoming states for immigrants. So it doesn't surprise me that we would see some of the first arrests of political opponents happening in New Jersey. But I'll say this, we can't forget the premise of why the mayor was there in the first place. He was there to oppose the Trump administration's extreme mass deportation agenda and, you know, uplift the humanity of the people that are detained behind those walls. I want to make sure that, that we're doing that because on the one hand, of course, a political arrest of any sort is rightfully making news, and it's important to cover it because it is a scary time. But on hand, it's also important to make sure that we're not losing the plot here, which is that there are potentially thousands of people that are being detained right here in New Jersey, which has now become sort of the hub or the epicenter of Trump's mass deportation agenda because of our proximity to Newark Airport, because of our proximity to New York, and many other reasons why New Jersey would become sort of the ground zero, so to speak, of, of the extreme anti immigrant agenda.

[Danielle]

I want to take a step back for a moment because I appreciate laying out the particulars and to make sure that we're not losing sight of why the mayor was there to begin with. But I want to dig into, if I can, the pageantry that Donald Trump is setting up with regard to the political theater. Right. And the arrest of the mayor and making a show of force, if you will. Right. What in your mind is, is the purpose of this? And what is Donald Trump and this administration trying to signal? And do you think that there are other mayors and other governors that will see this as a direct hit on their power? Right. Because again, Donald Trump is the one that is acting as if he is an autocrat and that no other, not the state level, not local level, no one else has any authority. He alone, right. Is the ruler of this nation. And so what do you think the response is from this arrest around the country?

[Amal Sinha]

I hope people see it for what it is, which is a targeted political attack. And we have U.S. attorneys in New Jersey and across the country that are willing to do the president's bidding and adhere to his political agenda. That's a dramatic shift from the way in which federal prosecutors have conducted themselves historically. What we've seen in the past is, you know, federal prosecutors have had, for the most part, utmost integrity, and they've been trying to uphold the rule of law. But just as the Trump administration is. Is going after immigrants, they are also undermining and eroding the rule of law every step of the way, whether it's Mayor Baraka being arrested or the threat of other elected officials being arrested, or the judge that we saw in Wisconsin, Hannah Dugan, who was arrested for not doing the Trump administration's bidding. So I hope that this is a. A moment of reflection for governors and mayors across the country who understand that the reason why we have a federal system and a state system working together is because there are state interests and there are federal interests, and no one person, no one individual gets to decide sort of the political and policy agenda for the entire country. You know, and that's the reason why we have a system of checks and balances, too, at the federal level that we have, you know, the executive department, the federal, The. The legislative branch and the. And the. And the courts working in tandem to make sure that no power goes unchecked. But here we have an administration, a president who wants to eradicate checks and balances, who wants to make sure that everybody falls in line. And. And I heard somebody eloquently speak about whether or not we are still in a democracy in this country. And they said that, you know, once we get to a point where there is a consequence for disagreeing with the president, right, then you're no longer in a democracy. And so I fear that we're there now. We are in a moment where people are being made to disappear and made to face charges and other sorts of consequences on their careers because they disagree with the Trump administration.

[Danielle]

You know, I want to follow up on that, because while I believe that language and words matter, right, that the words that this administration has used with regard to speaking about those seeking asylum, speaking about immigrants and migrants as vermin and as terrorists and as people we need to be rid of as an invasion, all of this language, right, was conjured as a way to be able to use the Alien Enemies act, right, to say that there are all of these things, things that we're not seeing in our day to day as American citizens, but they're telling us are there. Does it matter then whether or not we can call this current iteration of America a democracy or not? I guess my question is, should we be harping on that fact, or should we just be moving, knowing that we want to preserve whatever remnants are left, but that the reality is the America that was hasn't been since Donald Trump came down that escalator nearly 10 years ago. And that's the reality. Right. And so do we need to be part and parceling words, or do we just need to be moving in a way that clearly indicates that the America that was is no longer?

[Amal Sinha]

That's a fair point. And I would argue that it started well before the escalator moment. Right. We were on our way to a place where the fundamentals of our democracy were going to be eroded. And. And it wasn't a question of if, but a question of when and who would be the one doing the eroding. And so here we have Donald Trump now in his second administration, more empowered. Right. And more, you know, they, they. The administration sort of grew smarter in a way where they have more loyalists surrounding him, fewer people, if anyone, willing to be the quote, unquote, adult in the room to give sound advice and to say, look, that's a bridge too far. And so what I'm expecting is that we're going to need to be firing on all cylinders here. We're going to need to be making sure, on the one hand that we are pushing back wherever we can. Whenever we see the rule of law being eroded or immigrants being dehumanized or LGBTQ members of our community being targeted, and on the other hand, continuing to build where we can. While we work to defeat, delay, or dilute the Trump administration's tactics, we also need to be working to expand constitutional rights wherever we can. And I think about states like New Jersey, where we have a. A governor and an attorney general who are dedicated to the rule of law, who are actually, you know, values aligned with us for the most part of the aclu. Now, we at the ACLU sue our government. Right. So we have both the right. Yeah, we have the right hand and the left hand where we get to collaborate where we can, but we also are adversarial to our state. But it makes for this beautiful relationship the way it's supposed to be, where we are building up things where there's agreement and when there's disagreement, we know that it's principled. And so we are experiencing something a little bit different or quite different at the, at the federal level. But we need to rely on our states to push back and be the firewall for freedom, as we're calling it, that we know this moment needs so that our residents are protected. So while, you know, the threat of our democracy being eroded is certainly a real one and it's certainly happening as we speak, and we may be striving for saving the remnants on the federal level, I do think there is a lot of opportunity and a lot of hope on the state level to push back where we can and model what the United States should be. And I think that can start right here in New Jersey.

[Danielle]

Do you think that there is then a healthy amount of coordination that is happening between like minded states that have, you know, that, that have thoughtful leadership and governors that still believe in the rule of law? Is there enough coordination happening in order to hold?

[Amal Sinha]

I could say that I've seen our Attorney General, Matt Plotkin, lead litigation against the Trump administration on behalf of several states attorneys general. So there was litigation around the birthright citizenship question. There have been, there's been litigation around federal funding and a number of other issues. I think he's up to more than two dozen lawsuits now. And I've seen good coordination happening from the legal perspective. You know, I work for a federated organization, the aclu. We have, we have a nationwide organization and a nationwide presence. And one of our greatest strengths is that we have boots on the ground in every single state in the district in this country. And so I know that the ACLU is highly coordinated right now, but we are constantly talking to our colleagues across the country about what, what's working and what's not working and how we can move in alignment. And you know, we know that politics are different in each state, even in states that are sort of embracing of civil rights and liberties, the politics may be different and different things and different tactics may be working, but it's really important that we all stay in touch and coordinate with each other. And I know that the legislators, the members of Congress and senators of states that believe in civil rights and liberties are working together to push back on attempts to undermine them. And so hopefully we'll see more and greater coordination. But if your question is, is it sufficient, I think the answer is no. We need more coordination. We need a cohesive message. We need make sure that we are all pushing back wherever we can, as loudly as we can. Look, there's no reason why the three members of Congress in New Jersey that decided that they wanted to go on a tour had to go it alone. Right. Like, there are members of Congress all across this country with detention centers in their backyards that should be doing the same thing, demanding oversight, making those visits, making sure that we're adhering to the rule of law and that we're not complicit with atrocities and humanitarian violations that the Trump administration has basically promised.

[Danielle]

Well, you know, last question for you at just a minute or so left. For people who want to get involved and people who want, you know, to help, whether it's the ACLU of New Jersey, which you're leading, or nationally, please tell them how they can get involved.

[Amal Sinha]

Yeah. So the ACLU is a wonderful organization to get involved with. If you go to aclu.org or google aclu people power, there are ways for individuals to get involved in and plugged in with their local affiliate or with events happening in their communities. Of course. Look, the ACLU cannot do this work alone. We've already, since day one of this administration, filed over 110 lawsuits, legal actions against the administration, and there's more happening every single day. In the first Trump administration, we filed 430 legal actions against that administration during the course of it, and we're on par to do much more than that going forward for this administration. But we don't do it alone. We work with our partners across the country. And here in New Jersey, I can say that we have so many dedicated partners that believe in the things that we do. And I'll say this, that it's not just immigrants, it's not just judges, it's not just politicians, it's not just law firms, it's not just universities. It's all of us that the Trump administration is trying to go after. So it would be one thing if they tried to target one of these institutions or one of these groups of individuals, but the fact that they're going after all of us at the same time gives me a little bit of hope, absurdly. And that hope is that it'd be one thing if they went after one of us and we had to fight it alone, but the fact that we have basically a majority of the population being targeted, our values being maligned, our principles being undermined, that gives me hope that we can mount a pretty valiant fight, that we can push back and say that we will not be complicit with the atrocities and the violations that we're seeing in this administration.

[Danielle]

Well, Amal, we will leave it there today, and we thank you so much for the work that ACLU of New Jersey is doing that you are doing and leading and we hope to have you back again soon. Really appreciate you.

[Amal Sinha]

Thanks so much for having me.

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[Danielle]

I am so excited to welcome on to the new pod as the world churns. My friend Jared Sexton, who is the author of the Midnight Kingdom, who is the editor at large for the sub stack dispatches from a Collapsing State. It is a title with a ring to it and he is also my co host for the check in that we do on Substack on Wednesdays at noon where we check in on our emotional state in these times. So Jared, you know, it's, you know, three and a half months into Donald Trump's second regime.

[Jared Sexton]

Time flies when you're having fun, man.

[Danielle]

Time flies when everything around you is crumbling. And that's exactly how it feels. We are just one headed into the second quarter, not even the second year, the second quarter of this, of this term and it, it is full steam ahead. We've been talking about this. We were talking about this. We said, if Donald Trump gets back into office, Project 2025, they are hitting the ground running. They have their blueprint. What do you think of the pace and also the reception response thus far from Democrats?

[Jared Sexton]

Well, first of all, thanks for having me over to your new place. I love it. The colors are fantastic, the curtains are. Couldn't be better. Danielle, I think you and I share a view on this. We knew that if Donald Trump would ever come close to power again that the foundation would be laid, that they would be much more prepared. The first Trump administration basically was cobbling together the anti avengers at that point, trying to find anybody who would take a job. It didn't matter necessarily what their ideological ties were this time. The think tanks and institutes that have been funded by the wealth class have had all of their plans laid out. They were totally prepared to take power from the moment they had gained inspiration from years of fascistic far right authoritarian ideology. And they have been carrying it out not with surgical precision, but with blunt force. And one of the things that we've talked about is how this project, like any authoritarian project, it relies on trying to overwhelm the population, to borrow a term from history, a blitzkrieg, so to speak, of actions and agendas that are designed to both completely twist reality while also assaulting all of us with enough trauma and bewilderment and fear. It's supposed to make them feel inevitable, as if we couldn't possibly fight against them, while meanwhile putting us on our back feet, making us conservative and activated and just trying, basically begging off, please don't hurt me, you can hurt anybody else. Just leave me alone. And the problem here, and you had brought up the Democratic Party, they have failed. They have absolutely and utterly failed. And the reason is because this party has become conservative itself. They are much more focused on trying to preserve what we had, which led to authoritarianism in the first place. They are so much more beholden to trying to keep their donor base home that their main opposition right now isn't to Donald Trump, it's not to authoritarianism, it's to their own base and their own supporters to basically say, hey, shut up. We know better than you do not like move away from us. We can't go in any form like quote unquote, extreme direction, even though they're normalizing all of this as it happens. And so what we essentially have in this country right now with the rank and file Democratic Party and, and of course there are some people who aren't on board with this. What we essentially have right now is a far right authoritarian party and we have a conservative party in conversation and negotiation with them constantly. And so as a result, and this is always how authoritarianism works, you always have sort of a rank and file that appears to be the quote, unquote resistance. But because they're not able to fight the actual material conditions that led to authoritarianism, it they basically work in concert as things move further and further to the right. So to put it another way, it's been shitty, it's been absolutely awful and unfortunately it's what could be predicted and unfortunately what we predicted when we saw this thing rising in the first place.

[Danielle]

Do you make any case for the fact that none of what has been happening, like to your point, has been happening through position, it's all been happening through blunt force and that there have been a lot of fuck ups, there have been a lot of obstacles that the courts have put in the way. Whether or not Donald Trump is adhering to the courts is another thing. But that even the CEOs, the oligarchs are, are up in arms around the market manipulation. And what is going to happen as a result of these aggressive, ridiculous tariffs that Donald Trump has done? You know, just today you have the, the CEO of Walmart and Donald Trump telling him to quote, unquote, eat the tariffs, right? You've made billions, eat the tariffs. And Walmart's like, so no, we, we never had any intention of that. What do you make of the bumps in the road? Are they enough? Do we need more? And what does more, if we do need them, what does more look like?

[Jared Sexton]

Well, one of the greater myths of authoritarianism is that they're effective, right? That they're confident. And so like actually America. And, and I know this is a shock to you, I know that this isn't how you see the world. There is a white supremacist, pro capitalistic view of how the world works. And so America, when authoritarians are on the rise, the capitalist class in America looks at them and they're like, oh, they're bringing order. Oh, they're making the bottom line work. Right? And this even happened with everyone from Mussolini to Hitler and every tin pot dictator that the United States of America has used. And we see them almost as an effective CEO. Like they're greeted like that. If you go back and look at the New York Times, it's just like, these are perfect executives. But the truth is that authoritarians are inherently dysfunctional and messy and absurd. They're not actually the great lawbringers. They're not actually the great organizers. They're actually buffoons. Because anybody who gets involved in this, there is an inherent character defect to them, right? Because they see the world in this very narcissistic, destructive way. And so they can't really work with people. They can't really form coalitions. And the only way that they come into power is something is deathly wrong in the society that allows them to come in power. And there's corruption and there's failure, which is what ends up bringing them into this position of being able to bring authority. And what we're seeing now, what you just brought up with, like, these CEOs who have been, like, championing Donald Trump and then at times being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, are you messing with our bottom line here? That is the give and take of the authoritarian and the oligarchy. That is what always occurs. Like, sometimes one of them is in the front, the other time, other ones are in the front, they will battle. And, you know, if you look at Putin's Russia, there's a reason why so many of them, man, they just happen to fall out of windows all the time. You know, like, they start. They start speaking up a little bit too much, and all of a sudden they're gone. It's a mob mentality. And so the. The way that all of this works, and this is one of the things that gives me hope. And I think that anybody who is feeling this or being active in this and actually paying attention, you'll notice there's always an equal and opposite reaction to authoritarian energies, because it's absurd and it's obvious and it's disgusting. And so, like, people are like, whoa, these people are way out of control. The question is whether or not people are going to fight against that and organize against that and follow that feeling, or the abuse and the brutality that's doled out by the authoritarians will eventually tamp down that sort of reaction to it. So we're in this, really, we're in a real liminal, important space right now, which things haven't been totally constructed. Power hasn't been fully seized, and we have an opportunity to stop it, but we're more or less being pushed down a chute, and the gate's going to be closed behind us. And so right now, that sort of back and forth, it gives the opportunity for this project to be defeated before it finally steps into its full evolution.

[Danielle]

Where do you think then the American people are on the spectrum of their awakening with regard to this time is definitely not like last time. Right. Like, I just did an interview with, you know, executive director from the ACLU who said that at this point in the, like in the first term of Donald Trump, ACLU had over 400 court cases. They're on pace to like to blow that number out of the water in this second regime. And so when we think about again, those people who said, well, we were able to hunker down and make it through the last time, so, you know, we'll be able to hunker down. Like I said at the top, we are three and a half months in. And you could tell me that I'm counting in dog years because it does not feel like we are three and a half months in. Where do you think the American people are on their spectrum of understanding, standing or their awakening to the fight that they're in?

[Jared Sexton]

I think spectrum is the right word. I, I really do. Because, you know, in my own organizing against this, the thing that I keep noticing is that there are a lot of different conversations that are taking place. Right. There are a lot of people, you know, and, and I do think the outrageous nature of it is a gift. You know, if the, I think I said this to you the last time we had a conversation. We're so lucky that they're not more competent and that they can't hide this stuff. Like, it's very good for us that we have a total clown in Donald Trump who his right hand man is the wealthiest man in the world who can't shut his mouth.

[Danielle]

No.

[Jared Sexton]

Right. And so I think a lot of people are starting to become more aware that this isn't just a Democrat, Republican, red versus blue situation. We're in the middle of an accelerated class war. And so a lot of people are starting to look at this thing and say, you know what, Things have been wrong for a very long time. And they're starting to look at. You brought up a Democratic Party in your first question. They're starting to look at this party and they're saying, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are they incapable or are they unwilling or are they both right? And I think that that question is starting to gain a lot of momentum. But the other issue with it is you cannot discount the power of delusion. You cannot in any way shape or form turn your back on how many people know that this is wrong. But they have sort of a normalcy bias to them and they have been fed. And you know, anybody who's listening to this podcast kind of looks at this and they're like, how are people still believing in these institutions? Right. How are people still thinking that there's some sort of illegal means that's going to take care of this? And you know, even, even a body like the ACLU is still working in that. But even lawyers and people within the jurist population, they know that law is malleable, and they know that it's being corrupted. And they see what's happening with Trump, the Supreme Court, and pushing back against the judiciary. But a lot of people, the frank terror of realizing, not only is this an institutional problem and it's going to have to be handled by us, but the sheer terror of realizing, oh, my God, I'm going to have to get into this thing.

[Danielle]

Yes.

[Jared Sexton]

I'm going to have to reconsider a lot of the things I thought about politics and the world and quite frankly, and there's power in what I'm about to say. But it's also the most frightening thing in the world, Danielle, which is, oh, my God, I'm gonna have to put myself in some danger. Right? I could be in a situation where I could lose my job, I could lose my standing in society. I could face state violence. And that is a question that everybody has to face. And we're looking at large segments of the population that simply don't want to face them, those facts. But I do think that the numbers of people who are starting to realize that that's the essence of this moment, I think it's growing, and I've never seen it like this in my entire life. Like, it is very, very large. But that divide is what we're going to have to eventually take care of.

[Danielle]

You know, I think that the thing about America that has always gotten me and, and I travel. You travel. And, and, and so I'm, I'm sure this is not lost on you either, is that Americans have been able to exist inside of this protective cocoon, that the bad things that happen out in the world happen to other people. And that's because either they're lazy, they don't work hard enough. Oh, Bop. Up, up, up, up. They make excuses as to why other nations fall. Other nations are taken over by terrorists. Other things happen. But it's again, the, the, the gift and the curse of being American is to have existed inside of that cocoon. Donald Trump has shattered that cocoon.

[Jared Sexton]

That's right.

[Danielle]

Because by virtue of going after everyone, he has made it so no one is safe. Not the farmers that voted for him, that now see tariffs on their, on their supplies, that now see nations that no longer want, right, their product or their goods by virtue of them coming for America. But they voted for this man. You have other groups, right, that have always been marginalized, like black folks and people of color. You have queer people, right? Muslims, right? This, that and the other thing. But what I see right now for the first time and again, I thought this after George Floyd was murdered, I thought that white people were having a come to Jesus moment. And I was wrong. I'm not asking you to speak upon every single white person in America, but do you feel that those that again have had the ability to exist inside of this cocoon do. Are you seeing a, a more credible consciousness or sustained consciousness that is happening among white Americans?

[Jared Sexton]

I mean, that's. I'm so glad that you asked that question and I'm going to start answering it in a very strange way. And on top of studying authoritarianism, one of the things I like to pay attention to is apocalyptic literature and art, right? And for anybody who like watches these movies where it's the end of the world or a collapse of the government or whatever, what does it look like, Danielle? It looks like the United States of America being plunged into conditions that look like the so called second and third world, right? Things that brown people around the world have been subjected to. That is the quote unquote apocalypse, right? Is all of a sudden being in a situation where American privilege crumbles. And this is something that we've been dealing with since the rise of the American empire is what would happen if Americans were plunged into a situation that we make everybody else live in. And the whole point of that is that it has been this thing that happens outside of our purview, right? Like I, we haven't seen it except for like maybe on social media or reports, but that's over there. It's not here. And now all of a sudden we have a situation where we have a president who looks a lot more like a Tim Pot crook dictator in another country, that if we saw a report on this guy, we would know who he was, we would know what was happening in that country. Eventually it boomerangs around. And now that capitalism requires the United States of America to lower its standard of living, have that type of state violence as a discipline, and start to have every corner of our lives endangered in order to instill that discipline. I think a lot of people are starting to say this shouldn't happen to people like me. And that's the problem. And we kind of talked about this before in a previous conversation, but it does need to change from I don't deserve this to nobody deserves this. And I think one of the things that has happened in the past couple of years and of course the assault on Gaza and all the crimes against Gazans has made this more obvious. It happened under the Biden administration. So a lot of people wanted to deny it. Right. They wanted to pretend like it wasn't happening. But you meanwhile were assaulted with images and video clips and information that assaulted your moral and ethical compass of the world. So now we have to do this amazing kind of alchemy which is recognizing that the privilege that we've had is wrong. It's really been destructive.

[Danielle]

Yep.

[Jared Sexton]

And it is not just what's happening in Gaza, it's what's happening outside of your city where like supermax prison, a bunch of people are imprisoned who shouldn't be because of racist and classist reasons or as you're driving to work or walking to work, people who are unhoused, who are being brutalized, those people are being treated like that so that you can have a better life, so that you can enjoy privileges. And so there is a spiritual sea change that has to take place here. And quite frankly, I know this is going to be shocking. I don't mean to like absolutely shock you in the middle of your own show. White Americans do not like that. And whiteness. There's a reason why the white supremacist project in the United States of America go together like rancid peanut butter and chocolate. It's because white people in the United States of America are the most privileged people on the face of the planet. And the main privilege is not cheap goods. It's not cheap luxuries. It's not being able to go on a vacation every year or buy a new car. The greatest luxury that they enjoy is to never have to question how they came about their privilege. And so now all of a sudden, for people to escape from this, there's going to have to be a reckoning. And we've watched for years a so called wokeness or critical race theory or whatever we want to call it. These have been attempts to begin that sea change. And those sort of foundations are there. And I think some people are coming to terms with it. But the moment that we start seeing white people being brutalized like brown people, like, there is a possibility that maybe for some the light bulbs will come on. And it shouldn't take that. Those light bulbs should already be on. People should already be aware of what this is about. But the question is whether or not enough People are going to get to that point in enough time. And that's the $64,000 question.

[Danielle]

That is the $64,000 question. And unfortunately we are gonna have to leave it there today. But yes, to shock me on my own show.

[Jared Sexton]

I know that's information you didn't already know.

[Danielle]

I just. For the love of God. But folks, this is the Jared Yates Exon. And if you are not following him on all of the platforms, on Substack, on Blue sky and all of the places, you absolutely should. And on his own pod, the Muckrake, you should absolutely be my friend. As always, thank you so much for your brilliance.

[Jared Sexton]

Always a pleasure.

[Danielle]

Andy Levy. It is the start of another good week, and by good, I mean terrible. So to set the stage for the week, who are you delivering as your fuck that guy.

[Andy Levy]

All right, so my fuck that guy is gonna be basically Doge and obviously Elon Musk. And this time it is for letting go, cutting staff at the National Weather Service. And in particular they let people go from the NWS's offices in Kentucky. And just these past few days there were a bunch of storms, you know, hardcore storms moving through that region of the country. And in fact there were tornadoes that touched down in Kentucky that led to some deaths, I believe. And because of these cuts to the National Weather Service in Kentucky, there was no permanent overnight forecaster in the offices when all of this was going on. And these storms were being. Were bringing hail, we're bringing flooding, we're bringing, as we said, tornadoes. And the Kentucky NWS had to reach out to other offices, the office in Jackson, Kentucky, which is one of the places where these storms are going through, they had to reach out to other NWS offices in places like Louisville and Paducah because they could not fully staff this. We have been talking for a long time about how. Well, I guess it hasn't been that long of a time. It's been since Trump took over, since Trump 2.0 began, which feels like several years.

[Danielle]

Right. But it's just a few. Several months.

[Andy Levy]

Several months about how they want us to die.

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[Andy Levy]

And at best, they don't care if we die.

[Danielle]

Correct.

[Andy Levy]

Even if they're not actively wishing it on us. And this is just the latest example of that. This is part of the unbelievable budget cuts that we are seeing for science and medical related things. Things like developing vaccines, things like getting vaccines out to people, things like, you know, at the fda, they're cutting oversight of tainted foods. And this is just another example of that cutting the budget of The National Weather Service, which does so much good and can save, literally saves lives and literally saves the country money because it can keep people safe. Because when people aren't safe, it becomes in addition to them not being safe. If you want to look at this just from a cold hearted utilitarian perspective, when people are unsafe it costs taxpayers money because you know, they get hurt and then they have to be medically treated and you know, things get destroyed that maybe, you know, property and things like that get destroyed that maybe wouldn't have gotten destroyed if people had had a heads up about say a tornado about to touch down. All of this stuff is, is, it's a net good for society in and of itself. It's also a net good for society in terms of again, purely cold hearted fiscal terms. It is a net good for society as are things like medical research and everything else that this administration, under the guise of Doge or under the guise of RFK Jr. At Health and Human Services are cutting and gutted. And so I just, I wanted to spotlight this one because it just happened over the weekend and it's a perfect example of, you know, we are doing this to ourselves. There's no need for this. These are self inflicted, by self, I mean our government. But this is all self inflicted stuff that didn't need to happen. And I want, I need people out there and it's frustrating because I know the listeners of and watchers, the enjoyers of AS the world Churns, know this already. But we need more people out there. The people that maybe voted for Trump or stayed home. They need to start figuring out what's going on here and that all these cuts are not eliminating fraud and waste and fat. They're eliminating crucial programs, programs that help keep us safe and help keep us healthy. So for that reason my fuck that guy for today is the, the little, the Doge Child army and Elon Musk. Fuck those guys.

[Danielle]

They are trying to kill us. It doesn't actually matter whether or not it is fiscally responsible to do it doesn't matter that climate change is not something that is penned impending, that it's here. It doesn't matter that, you know, I think it was over 20 people lost their lives in that spray of tornadoes that happened over the weekend. And it's just going to get worse. And what makes me angry is that while Kentucky may have a Democratic governor, we know that largely right, they voted for Donald Trump. These are the red states that Jonathan Metzl wrote in his book Dying of Whiteness that would rather not Would. Would rather protest against health care from a black man. Right. When Barack Obama was pushing through the Affordable Care act, would rather die. Right. Than accept it. And so you look at this and you say to yourself, well, how could you continue to vote against your best interest? And it's just like, because Donald Trump told them that their whiteness was going to save them. Donald Trump told them that they would remain in power. Not. Doesn't matter if they're poor. Doesn't matter. You know, if they're, if they're living in states that have poor education, poor health outcomes, you know, it doesn't matter. Right. So I look at this and I think that it's sad, and I think that more people will have to experience a whole lot of pain and a whole lot of loss of life for people to actually understand what Donald Trump is doing. And by then it will be too late. Because too late to me was, you know, a day after the election. So, you know, fuck those guys.

[Andy Levy]

Yep. All right, Danielle, bring us home. Who you got? Who's caught your eye and ear?

[Danielle]

You know what? Lovely week on this lovely, lovely week. So here's the thing. A couple of weeks ago, and who knows what time is right at this point, because I really don't know what is time, but a couple of weeks ago, you had the CEOs of major retailers go to Donald Trump. It was Walmart, Target, Home Depot, and I believe Lowe's went to Donald Trump. And they said that if you do not back off of this tariff war, this trade war that you have incited with both our allies and those that we need to be in good partnership, good faith partnership like China, who produces an obscene amount of our goods, American shelves will be empty. Right. Because we are not going to be able to bring in these products. And in order to cover the cost of these tariffs, we are going to have to raise prices. They said that, sat there, went to the Oval Office and told Donald Trump this. Right? What does Donald Trump now turn around and do? Well, according to the New York Times, Trump urges Walmart to absorb tariffs after retailer says it could raise prices. Walmart, by the way, just, I know that folks know this, but just to put a finer point on it, is the nation's largest retailer is just one of several companies that have said they will be forced to pass on Donald Trump's global tariffs to consumers. And Trump, on his broke down social media platform said this, quote, walmart should all capital letters stop trying to blame tariffs as the reason for raising prices throughout the chain. Walmart made Billions of dollars last year, far more than expected. And then he goes on to say again, all, all capital letters, Andy, eat the tariffs. So here's the thing. Companies were never going to eat the tariffs. It is why every economist worth their fucking salt and their degrees said during the campaign that Donald Trump's economic plan was going to cause unnecessary economic duress on the American people because a tariff is nothing more than a consumer tax. They said that you don't need to have an economics degree. You don't even really need to understand math that much. What you do is that, hey, goods and services that are coming into this country that we import in to put on American shelves are coming from China, Mexico, Canada, wherever, right? And if you increase the cost of them delivering those goods, who do you think, you think Walmart's going to say, oh, we made billions of dollars last year. We'll keep the jeans at, you know, 20 bucks and we'll keep your groceries at X amount of dollars. And we'll tell our shareholders and our CEOs that, you know what, they just don't get bonuses this year. In a beautiful fantasy where companies and corporations gave a shit about their workers and gave a shit about consumers, then absolutely they would do that. But no, in this greedy land that we call America that has turned capitalism and celebrity and wealth into gods, no, they're not going to eat the cost. The people are going to eat the cost. And with hundreds of thousands of people out of work and more being fired each and every day, being laid off each and every single day, and the price is going up. Donald Trump and his administration is manufacturing catastrophe that is going to result in, I don't know, stagflation, recession, depression, you name it, it's coming, right? And so, no, Walmart, Donald Trump is not going to, quote, unquote, eat the fucking tariffs. They were never going to do that. And I hope that they do what that bitch Jeff Bezos was too chicken shit to do, which is to put on all of their items Trump tariffs, so that you know that you don't take the angst out on the company. It's not the company's fault, it's Donald Trump's fault. And every single fucking company should do that. That is not sucking at the tit of Donald Trump. So for that reason, Donald Trump and your manufactured trade war is my. Fuck that guy.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, I just keep thinking like, Donald Trump the businessman. If the government had come to Donald Trump the businessman and said, hey, you know, please don't raise your prices on Trump stakes because of tariffs, Donald Trump would have told them to do something anatomically impossible to themselves. You know, so the idea that he ever thinks, thought that companies would eat the cost of the tariffs, I mean it was as you said, every economist and even people like us who are not economists knew that was never going to happen. But the idea that this Mr. You know, Mr. Deal's Mr. Business Genius couldn't figure that out and is now has his underwear in a wad because what do you know, a company is passing on its higher cost to consumers. Something that has, I don't think that has that ever happened before in a capitalist society. No, it's just the whole thing again is so stupid. And again and as you pointed out and like I said with the weather service thing, this is all self inflicted. We are just, this administration is just continuously and continually shooting itself in the foot, shooting America in the head and just causing all these problems that they're creating, the problems that they're supposedly trying to solve. And it's just, you know, it would be hilarious if you were watching this in like a fictional, like in a movie or whatever and you just saw this level of incompetence. Like if you were watching Veep or you know, or something like that, it would be really funny. Unfortunately, it ain't so funny in real life because it affects people. So yeah, just fuck those guys.

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