Spitballing A Police State

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Spitballing A Police State" - As The World Churns

Release Date: July 11, 2025

In the episode titled "Spitballing A Police State," hosts Andy Levy and Danielle Moody delve deep into the alarming developments surrounding federal law enforcement practices, legislative responses, and broader implications for the rule of law in the United States. The discussion is interspersed with a compelling interview featuring Jules Boykoff, an expert on the politics of the Olympic Games, who sheds light on the intersection of sports and political maneuvering.

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1. Legislative Efforts to Regulate ICE Operations (01:19 - 11:37)

Andy Levy opens the episode by addressing a concerning trend within federal law enforcement. He highlights a bill introduced by Democratic senators Alex Padilla and Cory Booker aimed at banning ICE officers from concealing their identities. This legislation seeks to end practices where ICE agents wear masks, camouflage, or use unmarked vehicles, thereby undermining the transparency typically expected of law enforcement.

Andy Levy [01:19]: "These masked men in sometimes in camouflage kidnapping people off the streets ... acting as if the law does not apply to them."

Danielle Moody echoes the sentiments, emphasizing the unnecessary secrecy surrounding ICE operations compared to regular law enforcement agencies. She recounts incidents where ICE agents engaged in reckless behavior, such as a hit-and-run accident in Los Angeles, further blurring the lines between legitimate law enforcement and criminal impersonation.

Danielle Moody [05:29]: "Tell me what the difference is between criminals... and what we are seeing happening by these masked men."

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2. Supreme Court Rulings and Birthright Citizenship (11:37 - 23:03)

The conversation transitions to recent Supreme Court decisions impacting immigration policies, specifically regarding birthright citizenship. Danielle discusses a federal judge in New Hampshire issuing a preliminary injunction against a Trump-era executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship, citing the 14th Amendment.

Danielle Moody [13:34]: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States... are citizens of the United States."

Andy Levy critiques the Supreme Court's stance, arguing that requiring issues of constitutional significance to be handled through class-action lawsuits rather than nationwide injunctions undermines swift legal recourse.

Andy Levy [15:25]: "You can't issue an executive order that says what the Constitution says doesn't count."

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3. Interview with Jules Boykoff: Sports Washing and the Olympics (23:03 - 42:34)

The episode features an insightful interview with Jules Boykoff, a renowned author on the politics of the Olympic Games. Jules introduces the concept of sports washing, where political entities use major sports events to divert attention from domestic issues and project a favorable global image.

Jules Boykoff: "Sports washing is when political leaders use sports events to deflect attention away from chronic social problems... and try to make themselves look legitimate and powerful on the global stage."

He draws parallels between historical instances, such as the 1936 Berlin Olympics and the 2022 Qatar World Cup, and the current landscape surrounding Los Angeles' 2028 Olympics. Jules raises concerns about the National Special Security Event (NSSE) designation granted to the Olympics, which grants federal agencies, including ICE, expanded powers and autonomy.

Jules Boykoff [27:21]: "National special security events... put under the control of the US Secret Service... give them a lot of free reign in the city."

Andy and Jules discuss the potential for increased militarization and repression tied to these mega-events, fearing a shift towards authoritarian practices under the guise of security.

Andy Levy [31:44]: "The federal government uses the opportunity of these sports mega events to ratchet up its securitization... making it harder on people that wanna just come here from other countries to enjoy a sporting festival."

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4. The Erosion of the Rule of Law and DOJ Ethics (43:30 - 64:45)

Transitioning from sports politics, the hosts engage in a profound discussion on the decline of the rule of law in the United States. Danielle joins forces with a guest, a former federal prosecutor, who articulates a growing disillusionment with the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the judiciary.

Guest (Therapist) [44:45]: "The rule of law is not dead. It's hanging by a thread."

They examine the ramifications of the Supreme Court's decisions, which, according to the guest, have systematically undermined constitutional protections and facilitated authoritarian tendencies.

Guest [50:15]: "They are doing the judicial equivalent of oh f you, are you kidding me?"

The conversation underscores the challenges posed by a Supreme Court perceived as detached from constitutional principles, highlighting a slow erosion of rights and the diminishing capacity of checks and balances.

Danielle Moody [53:50]: "The Supreme Court sometimes acts unconstitutionally just because they say we are pronouncing it from our ivory tower that the Constitution now means this."

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5. Concluding Insights and Future Implications (64:45 - End)

In the final segments, Andy and Danielle reflect on the widening brain drain from the United States, exacerbated by the Trump administration's policies. They express concern over critical government agencies like NASA experiencing mass layoffs and leadership challenges.

Danielle Moody [66:20]: "Most employees are leaving... depriving the agency of decades of experience."

Andy criticizes the appointment of Sean Duffy as interim head of NASA, labeling it as a continuation of mismanagement and prioritization of loyalty over competence.

Andy Levy [72:35]: "It's so egregious, and it just seems to happen over and over again... I'm sick of these people."

The episode concludes with a lament on the futile state of political reform, emphasizing that meaningful change hinges on collective action and public resistance against systemic abuses.

Guest [63:38]: "We're going to march, we're going to protest, we're going to rally... We're going to stand up."

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Key Takeaways

• Transparent Law Enforcement: The necessity for legislation to ensure federal agents, specifically ICE officers, maintain transparency and accountability to prevent abuses of power.

• Judicial Overreach: Concerns over the Supreme Court's decisions that impede swift legal remedies and potentially erode constitutional protections.

• Sports as Political Tools: The use of large-scale sports events like the Olympics and World Cup as instruments for political legitimacy and security enhancement, raising fears of increased militarization.

• Decline of Ethics in Government: The troubling trend of declining ethical standards within the DOJ and other federal agencies, contributing to a fragile rule of law.

• Brain Drain Crisis: The rapid loss of skilled professionals and scientists from the U.S., threatening national progress and innovation.

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This episode of As The World Churns offers a sobering examination of the interplay between federal authority, legislative actions, and the overarching integrity of democratic institutions. Through earnest dialogue and expert insights, hosts Levy and Moody underscore the urgent need for vigilance and collective action to safeguard the nation's foundational principles.

Transcript

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[Andy Levy]

Hey, welcome to a new episode of as the World Churns. I am Andy Levy here as always with my delightful co host Danielle Moody. Today, Danielle, we seem to be having some episodes of ice, Ice Baby, as I like to call it. We've got a bill working its way through Congress that will be introduced in Congress by Alex Padilla and Cory Booker that will ban ICE officers from concealing their identities, that is wearing masks, not having any identifiable gear on with with that says ICE on it or whatever. And this obviously is in response to what we've been seeing over the past bunch of months, which is masked men in sometimes in camouflage kidnapping people off the streets and not identifying themselves as federal agents and not presenting any kind of warrant or anything like that and basically acting as if the law does not apply to them. So Padilla and Booker, both obviously Democratic senators, are introducing this bill. Who knows how far it'll go given that it's a Republican controlled Senate. But it's one of those things that shouldn't be necessary because it should just be, you can't do this. But that's not the world we live in. So unfortunately it is kind of necessary and I'm glad that they have at least started the process on this.

[Danielle Moody]

You know, so there are a couple of states where I feel like the state legislatures have taken up legislation to do just that, which is to try and create some type of, oh, I don't know, separation between mass thugs and criminals and who is supposed to be federal law enforcement. Because I can't think of any reason whatsoever why a federal law officer would need to cover up their faces, would need to remove their badges, would need to remove any personal identification, would need to use ghost tags on the vehicles that they are shoving people into to kidnap them and bring them to detention centers. I cannot think for whatever reason why ICE agents need this type of cloak and dagger routine. Whereas while regular law enforcement have badges, have clear faces, you absolutely know who they are. The presumption here that I feel like that we don't discuss under the Trump regime is that these officers of the federal government are given carte blanche to do whatever they want, however they want to get it done, so long as they are picking up, beating up brown people and black people and throwing them in prison. And that there are no rules. Right? Because if you are, if you are harmed. There was, there was a. And I got, I cannot remember where this happened. There was a ICE vehicle that rear ended a car full of people that they thought were, quote, unquote, undocumented folks. And I, if somebody can tell me what state that was in rear ended them, find out that those people are lawful citizens of the United States. And guess what? The ICE agent did took off. So it was a hit and run, right? And guess what? As you're trying to pull up the plates of said vehicle to open up an investigation, you can't find them. So tell me what the difference is between criminals, people who have been impersonating ICE agents, whether it's been to rob people, to sexually assault women, et cetera, and what, what we are seeing happening by these masked men. So I think that it is important for one legislation to be passed, but I think that all states should be taking this into their own hands and not waiting on this fucking feckless federal government to do anything that is actually going to protect the constituents, the citizens of this, of this country.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, I think it was Los Angeles where that incident happened. But the thing is, I'm not positive because you could be talking about another incident where they did the same exact thing, because who the fuck knows these days? But, but yeah, and there have been other incidents of them ramming cars to arrest protesters. Not even, you know, not, not even the people they are supposedly going after, whom they shouldn't be going after, but people protesting their ICE Agents are ramming cars to arrest them. And again, like you said, it's, it's, it's totally lawless and, and it's basically the Wild West. They've been told they can act with impunity. Look, the thing is, thanks to the Supreme Court, I guess the argument is, hey, the President is telling us to do this and that must be a lawful order because the President, in pursuit of his duties, can't break the law. So, you know, but it seems like all of this is taking a toll on these poor ICE agents. And they are reportedly, there were multiple reports of ICE agents being unhapp, miserable, burnt out, physically, burnt out emotionally. You know, you ask, you said there's no good reason why should, they should be wearing masks. They say they're wearing masks because they're afraid of being doxxed, I. E. Their identities made public. In a case like this, if you're a federal agent and you're afraid of being doxxed because people don't like what you're doing, you should maybe rethink what you're doing instead of covering your face. Like, you know, just a, just a random thought, I'm going to throw out there that if, if you're a federal agent and people really, really, really hate you, maybe you shouldn't be doing what you're doing. I don't know, Danielle, you know, am I reaching there?

[Danielle Moody]

You know, here's the thing. This is what I'm curious about. So Donald Trump in the big billionaire budget bill gave a record amount of money right to ICE we're talking about now their budget is operating somewhere. Well, will be operating somewhere in the $175 to $180 billion range, right? ICE now having more money than other nations. Full fledged militaries, right, that aren't the United States and aren't China. And I wonder, is it built into that? Is there going to be more pay for ICE agents or is it just going to be more militarized toys for them to be able to use to show their show of force. Because the other reports that are coming out isn't just about their morale, but also about the fact that people are quitting, right? Like they're quitting the job because it is getting to them. And I, I couldn't think about why. You know, watching like literally beating up people and watching children cry as you leave them on the sidewalk and scoop up their parents, never to be seen again. Like why that would be, you know, breaking your spirit and maybe you want to go do a different fucking job. But the fact is, I wonder if in that ballooned budget is actually increased pay to entice people to want to do this kind of soulless type of work or not. But something tells me when it comes to Donald Trump and they don't really like to pay people, I'm pretty sure it's just going to be for the toys and detention centers that are being built to feed their donor base, who they're feeding contracts to, and not to the actual people on the ground doing the terrible Galaxy boot work.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, I'm guessing also not a pay raise, but probably more agents making the same salary because they're obviously, they're overstretched as they are, because, you know, we're not in this country supposed to have secret police that kidnaps people off the street because of the color of their skin and kicks them out, puts them in a detention center or some kind of camp here and. Or kicks them out of the country. So, of course they're overextended. They shouldn't be doing what they're doing. So, yeah, I'm guessing, you know, a lot more new troops. A bunch of people have raised the alarm about the ICE thing in this bill being potentially the scariest part of it. I know AOC has spoken strongly about it and how it really is setting up. If you want an arm of the authoritarian government, it's looking like ICE is going to be, is and is planned on being the main one. That seems to be their strategy. Those are the people that they're gonna use. And, you know, ICE is. They're really touchy about being referred to as the secret police. The official ICE Twitter account is very mad at Brad Lander, who is the New York City controller and who has recently become almost as big and as great a white ally as I am in his support for Zuran Mamdani and the fact that he himself got arrested for protesting an ICE deportation thing. And they've been going hard at him because he has basically said. He has said New York City is not going to stand for this shit. Which, getting back to your point earlier, that states and municipalities, they have their own powers to do this. And Brad Lander's been very outspoken on this, and he really hurt ice's feelings by referring to them as the secret police, which just struck me as odd since they're the ones running around with masks on and without identification on. On their clothing or vehicles. So, again, if you don't want to be called the secret police, don't be the secret police.

[Danielle Moody]

It's just an Idea. Just throwing things at the wall here, spitballing sticks.

[Andy Levy]

We're just spitballing here.

[Danielle Moody]

Okay? So I don't know whether to take this as good news or bad news, because all of it just seems like it inches its way to the Supreme Court, which has been magified. But here we have, in a most recent decision by a federal judge in New Hampshire, this is, according to the Seattle Times, a ruling on Thursday prohibiting Trump's executive order ending birthright citizenship from taking effect anywhere in the US Judge Joseph LaPlante issued a preliminary injunction blocking Trump's order and certified a class action lawsuit and including all children who will be affected. The order, which followed an hour long hearing, included a seven day stay to allow for an appeal. Now, if you remember right, the Supreme Court basically just nullified lower courts ability to be able to, to, to order nationwide injunctions, Right? This is different because it is a class action suit, which the Supreme Court said is an avenue, is a path that can be used as opposed to a singular case. And so this group of people, which is on behalf of a pregnant woman, two parents and their infants are being represented, being represented by the aclu, would essentially state that the order that Trump put out is illegal. And why is it illegal? Because it goes against what clearly is written in the Constitution's 14th Amendment. Quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States. I don't think that you can get clearer than that. Nor do I think that you need an actual legal degree in order to make sense of that amendment. And yet, Andy, here we are.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, yeah, it's. You know, I'll start by saying, look, this is a good decision that the judge made. I will quote, because she's way smarter than I am. I will quote a friend of the pod, Madiba Denny, who said, I'm going to read what she posted on Blue Sky. She said the Supreme Court said federal courts can't do nationwide injunctions under the Judiciary act, try a class action. And then Madiba says that's not a great alternative. But this judge said, okay, bitch, here's your class action. The class is everybody. So I think that really puts it as well, you know, I ain't gonna put it any better than that in my own words, so just gonna use hers. But yeah, this is, this is why. I mean, this whole thing is just wild because as you said, this is you. You can't issue an executive order that says what the Constitution says doesn't count. Like, it's not it can't work that way. And yet the Supreme Court has said, well, but we can't say that's true for every jurisdiction. It's just the whole thing is insane. As Madiba said, the idea that you have to make it a class action suit is not great. And it's going to take judges like this who are going to say, okay, I'm making this a class action suit. And it's on behalf of every single child around this country, every single baby born in this country, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents, because that's who's affected by this. And the idea that the Supreme Court threw out there, that this needs to be decided in multiple jurisdictions and not nationally, when it's a constitutional issue. I don't understand the mental gymnastics. Like, I mean, Simone Biles is jealous of what?

[Danielle Moody]

Correct.

[Andy Levy]

Of the gymnastic skills of Amy Coney Barrett and the rest of the justices who went along with this because, I mean, it's just unreal. So, yeah, great decision by this judge, as always. You know, what that means is going forward is who knows with the Supreme Court?

[Danielle Moody]

But I mean, here's the thing with me, is that this Supreme Court is basically setting up the entire breakdown of the United States of America. Because if now I am a pregnant person and I'm in New York and I give birth in New York, that means that my child is a citizen not of these United States, but of New York. And if for whatever reason I got to go to New Jersey, then now that child is no longer deemed a citizen. Like, so we're setting up citizenship by state and not by country, which is essentially, basically a legalized.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah.

[Danielle Moody]

Civil war that we're going into to say what's to say, what states have rights and what don't? Because that's what this. I mean, again, I just read what the 14th amendment was very clear. I don't understand the interpretation that this moggified Supreme Court is giving, except for the fact that they just continue to give Donald Trump win after win after win in his desire to have this country all white again. That's what he wants, and that's what they're doing.

[Andy Levy]

I should say, though, Daniel, there's no reason you should ever be going to New Jersey.

[Danielle Moody]

That's fair. Yeah, I hear there are nice parts. It was. It is the Garden State.

[Andy Levy]

I know, I know, and I'm just joking. So if you're a resident, if you're.

[Danielle Moody]

A New Jerseyan, don't come for me, come for Andy.

[Andy Levy]

It was just a joke. I love My New Jersey brothers and.

[Danielle Moody]

Sisters, let's pivot off of the lawlessness of the Supreme Court for a moment and take a look at the policies that are coming out of Ice Barbie, Kristi Noem's Department of Homeland Security. That essentially may have, and I'm saying may, but seems pretty likely that they have gotten in the way of providing aid to Texas during critical times. So CNN reported that Kristi Noem, whose department oversees fema, recently enacted a sweeping rule aimed at cutting spending. Right. But she spends a lot of money on hair and makeup. Every contract and grant, over 100,000 now requires her personal sign off before any funds can be released. For fema, CNN writes, where a disaster response costs routinely soar into the billions as the agency contracts with on the ground crews, officials say the threshold, the threshold is essentially pennies requiring sign off for relatively small expenditures. They go on. For example, as central Texas towns were submerged in rising waters, FEMA officials realize they couldn't pre position urban search and rescue crews from a network of teams stationed regionally across the country and weren't able to take actions until Monday. More than 72 hours, Andy, after the flooding began. Is this part of the waste and fraud? Like 72 hours when you had flood waters that came in at two stories in an hour and children's lives were on the line and we were waiting for her signature?

[Andy Levy]

Yeah. I mean, look, in a, in a just world, this would result in investigations and potentially prison time. I'm not quite sure we live in a just world right now, so I'm not sure if I see any of that happening. I would like to see an investigation into this, though, because it's, it's absolutely shameful. You know, I think I mentioned on the show the other day that like that that they were sending Kristi Noem to Texas as opposed to the head of female.

[Danielle Moody]

Mm.

[Andy Levy]

And how weird that is because it's usually, you know, the head of fema, for better or worse. We all sort of remember George W. Bush, which is with his heck of a job Brownie with I think it was Mike Brown, the head of FEMA under Katrina, who in fact was not doing a heck of a job. But look, they have and I think, you know, maybe you'll get into this a little more later. But they have, they have basically there's so few people I think in the inner circle, in Trump's inner circle. And so we keep seeing like, you know, Marco Rubio has five different jobs now and things like that. And then we're seeing Kristi noem being the point person for everything, like. And FEMA just gets sidelined. And so, of course, she feels like, you know, I'm gonna make this thing where now you can't spend more than 100 grand unless I personally sign off on it, which is ins. Absolutely insane to bottleneck something like this up. As you said, $100,000 is not even. That's like five minutes worth of FEMA's time and resources. Time and resources that are usually desperately needed asap. So the idea that she has done this, obviously, with the blessing of President Trump, whether he understands it or not, you know, it is just. It is. It is. It is shameful. It is. It's causing people to die. We keep saying on the show they want us to die. And this is, you know, this is example number 9 million and something of that exact thing.

[Danielle Moody]

Yeah. I mean, will she be hauled in front of Congress? Probably not. And even if she is there, she's just going to lie through her teeth. So there's that.

[Andy Levy]

Yep.

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[Andy Levy]

Jules Boykoff has written six books on the Olympics, has been published in multiple professional journals, along with media outlets including the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Nation, and the Guardian, where his latest piece is entitled the IOC handed LA the 2028 Olympics. Now Trump is weaponizing them. He joins me now to talk about it. Jules, thanks so much for coming back.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Thank you, Andy.

[Andy Levy]

So I want to get into the specific reasons that, as you say, the LA28 Olympics are now a slow motion train wreck. And there's one scary one in particular that we'll talk about. But I want to start with what's a more general term, and that's sports washing. For our audience that may not know what this is, explain what sports washing is.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Absolutely. So sports washing is when political leaders use sports events to deflect attention away from chronic social problems happening and to try to make themselves look legitimate and powerful on the global stage, is typically associated with the big sports mega events like the World cup of Soccer or the Olympic Games. And it's also typically associated with authoritarian countries. There was a lot of talk around sports washing when it comes to Qatar around the 2022 Men's World cup of Soccer. But I think it's really important to talk about how sports washing definitely can apply to places like the United States. A putative democracy on the slide toward authoritarianism perhaps, but still a putative democracy nonetheless. And that's what I try to lay out in the article that you're talking about, is how the United States right now is engaging in sports washing or is this ramping up the machine to engage in sports washing when it comes to next summer's World cup and then the Olympics in 2028?

[Andy Levy]

So these are both. Both the World cup and the Olympics are big deals to Trump, aren't they?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Absolutely. He has staked a lot on his relationship to sport, and he's been involved with sports on different levels and actually played a pretty important role in his reelection campaign this last go round where he just hung out with people and talked about some of the stuff around usc, not even talking about politics directly, but being political through the apolitical vector, if you will, of sports. And so, yes, he's very interested. And he's also beyond that, he's talked about how he wants the Los Angeles 2028 Summer Olympics to be a success and how he wants to do everything he can to make it so.

[Andy Levy]

And it's wild because it's not like every country, you know, that hosts the Olympics doesn't do some form of sports washing. I think whether they're an authoritarian country or a democracy, whatever, there's a very nationalistic urge behind hosting the Olympics and celebrating your country and whatever. But the ones that we usually hear about when we're talking about the egregious examples are usually like the 1936 Olympics in Berlin that Adolf Hitler, you know, staged. And you hear. And the World cup in 2022, I guess it was in Qatar. Like, as you said, it's wild that we are sort of approaching that category, if not in it now. Right?

[Glenn Kirschner]

You're absolutely right. And you and I agree that even democracies like, say, France around the 2020 World Olympics engage to a certain degree around sports washing, you know, an element of Sports Washington that I haven't mentioned or really talked about, but I know we want to, is how governments use these mega events to bolster their security apparatus, especially because they've become so big and they have become a legitimate terrorist target. I mean, look at Atlanta, 1996 Olympics there. Or look at the fact that the 2014 Olympics in Sochi, Russia, were deemed a legitimate target by Doku Umarov, the Chechen rebel. And so because of those reasons, democracies and authoritarians alike, they use these events to bolster their security structure. And if you look at that big ugly bill that just passed last week, there was a billion dollars set aside for security for the 2028 Olympics, another 625 million for the World cup next year. So the US is getting ready at least on the security front for these events, or at least using these events to bolster their security structure. No question.

[Andy Levy]

So explain what a national special security event is, because this is a key part you write about here.

[Glenn Kirschner]

I agree. So. And a lot of people don't know about it, but national special security events started in the 1990s under President Bill Clinton, in part in response to that terrorist attack I just mentioned in Atlanta at those Summer Olympic Games. And what it basically does is it puts under the control of the US Secret Service a number of security and intelligence forces around the United States at the federal level. It brings them together to work together to ostensibly supposedly ward off terrorism. It gives them a lot of free reign in the city. An example of this would have been a Super Bowl. They do that for Super Bowls. They do this for Republican National Convention, Democratic national convention. Back in 2019, you might remember at the Super bowl in Atlanta, 21, Savage the rapper got nabbed by Ice there. That's in part because Ice has free reign. So they hand over these national special security events to to the Department of Homeland Security. So right now that means Kristi Noem, and they have free reign, including their premier policing division, ice. Now, that is alarming for a lot of people in Los Angeles who are hosting matches in the FIFA Club World cup this last month. And then we'll be hosting matches for the actual World cup of Soccer next summer. And then, as we've been talking about the Olympics in 2028. And so my idea in writing about this was like, hey, Los Angeles, you need to be aware of this, because Karen Bass can get up there on the camera and say, hey, get out of here. Federal officials, but they've already signed on the dotted line, and there's this national special security event that supersedes anything that Mayor Bass might like to do there.

[Andy Levy]

And as you point out, this is already in effect and has been for quite some time.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Right, I'm glad you pointed that out, because it's like a world record, if you will, of national special security events. President Biden kicked it into effect in 2024, some four full years in advance of the Olympics. And so, yes, ICE already has, to a certain degree, free rein under the auspices of the National Special Security Event.

[Andy Levy]

And one of the things that this sort of triggers is secrecy. Right? And you know, as you say, we've been seeing already, obviously ICE agents in Los Angeles, masked, with no markings on their camouflage uniforms or on their vehicles. And a lot of that is okay because this is a national special security event. Right. And that's part of that.

[Glenn Kirschner]

I believe it is part of it. And that's what I'm trying to disentangle right now. What is under the national special security event and what is just a presidential President Trump administration run amok, basically giving free train to ice, no matter what, if there's an nsse, if you will, in effect or not. Right, but you're absolutely right. I mean, these guys from ICE look like they just came right from robbing a liquor store and then to the job to try to start deporting people from the streets of la, where, by the way, there are some million people or so who are undocumented there. So this is no small thing when they marched through MacArthur park, as if it was some kind of military invasion that sends fear waves throughout the city of Los Angeles. Now, I don't want to say that no one's reacting because there's a lot of people fighting back. I think that's really important. But in order to truly fight back in the most fully informed way, you need to be aware of things like the nssc. You need to be aware about the networks of mutual aid and support that are in your area.

[Andy Levy]

And also, as you said, something like this, the nssc, it hamstrings local officials to an extent, doesn't it?

[Glenn Kirschner]

It really does. And I think we're going to see this come into focus more and more the closer that we get to the World cup next summer. And Karen Bass can take to the podium and almost say whatever she wants, but they can basically be superseded by the NSSC whenever the federal government deems it appropriate. Again, this was signed by Joe Biden in 2024. That kicked this into effect. And if they want, they can always just kind of look back and say that.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah. And look, obviously the idea with one of these things, it's not necessarily pro fascist like the idea, as you said, these, these events are legitimate terrorist targets and whatever. And so the idea behind this was, hey, let's give this a designation. It means we can bring more manpower in and everything. But you put that in the hands of a Donald Trump and suddenly you've got what we are already starting to see there.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Absolutely. And you mentioned at the outset, Andy, that I study the politics of the Olympic Games. And so I would go back for a second and say that anyone who hosts the Olympic Games uses the event like their own private cash machine to get all the special weapons and laws that they never be able to get during normal political times. I mean, Japan passed an anti terrorism quote unquote law back in 2017 ahead of their Olympics where it passed a number of laws that basically were meant to curtail the actions of activists. And so this happens time after time after time. But what I am saying is the NSSC turbocharges these dynamics and takes power out of the hands of local officials in ways that are really deleterious. And I do want to kind of shout out two groups if people want to follow further what's going on in Los Angeles, who've been on this NSSC thing for a long time. Two activist groups. One of them is Nolympics la, a smart coalition of groups from Black Lives Matter to stop LAPD spying, to many other groups who wrote a really important piece about the NSSE early and they've been on this and they're fighting against it, trying to engage in political education in the community. And same for the People's City Council of Los Angeles, this collective of activists there that are fighting out in the streets that have also been trying to raise up this issue. So it's not just me writing for the Guardian, there are a lot of people out there on the ground fighting back and trying to raise awareness in Los Angeles and elsewhere about this Issue.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, for sure. In addition to this nsse, there's other things that are going on that are potentially turning everything into, as you said, a slow motion train wreck. Talk about travel bans.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Oh, this is totally a part of the train wreck. I'm glad you mentioned it. So Trump just keeps lumping more countries onto this travel ban of countries that are not allowed to come to the United States. Now he's saying that there's going to be a carve out for athletes that are coming for the FIFA World cup in 2026 and for the Olympics in 2028. However, we just saw that a women's basketball team from Senegal that meant to come to the United States to train to get ready for qualifiers for the Olympics. Half their team and half their staff were denied entry. They were not given visas to come train in the United States. We saw Ping Ponger from Brazil, who all he did was go to a big tournament to get ready for the Olympics in Cuba and that put him on a suspicion list and he wasn't allowed into the United States. And that's not even to talk about the fans, the family members of these athletes who might like to come over. That's not even to talk about Iran, which is like the first country on the travel ban list. Is Iran that it qualified for the 2026 Men's World cup, going to be allowed into the country to participate? Will FIFA kind of rig it? FIFA is the world governing body for soccer. Will they rig it so that Iran plays their matches in Mexico and Canada and thereby sort of sidesteps the repression that they might experience here in the United States? Part of me kind of hopes they do just to kind of give fans from Iran that, that break. So there are a lot of ifs in this equation here. And you know, Gianni Infantino who runs FIFA, is basically Trump's right hand man. I mean, you could unmistakably say that.

[Andy Levy]

FIFA, FIFA is the most above board sports organization in the world. Jules, how could you say that?

[Glenn Kirschner]

I know, I know. Total blasphemy, Andy. And I apologize for having to make it to you. But guys, you go on Gianni Infantino's Instagram feed, uh, it's basically post after post about how much he loves the President, uh, their pictures and Donald Trump pictures with Eric Trump. He dragged players from Juventus Football Club that were in town to participate in this club World cup, dragged them into the Oval Office and prop them up behind Trump. And Trump asked them about would they allow men to play on their women's team or Would they allow women to play on their team, just like using them like political props in his anti trans games? So Gianni Infantino is a problem in and of itself. But, yeah, he doesn't seem to be too worried about Trump. In fact, he's been enabling Trump with all the stuff that we've been talking about every step of the way.

[Andy Levy]

I'm also struck by the idea that, like, if you are from one of these countries, would you want to come here to participate in the Olympics or the World cup knowing, you know, if you're seeing videos of masked federal agents kidnapping people off the streets who have brown skin in the overwhelming majority of the cases, would you feel safe and secure coming here to participate in any of these things?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Hey, that's a great question. And I think you're going to see more athletes asking themselves just that. I think especially when it comes to those Olympics, if we continue to see what we're seeing today, a lot of the athletes that are financially insulated say they play in the NBA or something like that. They don't need the Olympics as much as the Olympics needs them. They might be able to say, no way. And they can make a statement even as to why they're not participating in the Olympics because they don't agree with what's happening. Now, athletes from less lesser known sports, this can be their one chance to maybe make back the money that they paid up front to train for it. Those folks I can see understandably being willing to take the chance. But, you know, there's a long way to go before we get to 2028. A whole lot more of the horror show could unfold before then. And there just remains so much to be seen when it comes to those Olympic Games in 2028.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, it's. God, it's wild. Kirsty Coventry, she's the current head of the ioc. And as you point out, you say, what a time for her to be the head of the ioc. Why is that? Explain.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Well, first of all, Kirsty Coventry is a decorated athlete in swimming. She's the first woman to be the president of the International Olympic Committee and its storied history. Side note, they actually didn't even allow women to become part of the organization until 1981. So this should not be confused with some sort of proto feminist organization. She's the first president from Africa, she's from Zimbabwe. And you might think that, hey, we're turning a new page. And because of all those reasons I just gave and new leadership and all that. But the flip side of all that is that she is the previous president's kind of right hand woman. He was really rooting for her to take over the job. And a lot of people think that she will pretty much conform to the way he did things. Second, we know full well that when it comes to dealing with Donald Trump, he's a misogynist, he's a bully, and she's going to have to stand up to this guy and it's not going to be easy for anyone, let alone someone who's new on the job. So she really has her job cut out for her. I'll be interested to see how she handles Donald Trump moving forward and whether she actually moves forward with any kind of meaningful reform on all these different issues that face the Olympics today, whether it's the explosion of costs associated with the Games, whether it's the increasing exclusion of trans athletes from the Games, or whether it's this juggernaut named Donald Trump here in the United States who's going to become inner ear soon enough.

[Andy Levy]

I realized one thing I didn't talk to you about and that affects all of this is the relationship between Trump and Gavin Newsom, the governor of California. And it's not a good relationship. We know that. How do you think that that antagonism will play into the planning for these Olympics?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah, I think it's actually really important. On one hand, as we were talking about, Donald Trump is probably not too keen to pass up on a chance to sportswash. So he's probably going to do what it takes to stage the 2026 World cup and the 2028 Olympics. On the other hand, to make those Olympics happen in 2028, they not only are going to have that security budget, but they need money for transportation. They, the officials, including Gavin Newsom in California, have asked for some $3.2 billion for transportation funding to get largely for buses to get people to these events. You think Donald Trump's just going to hand that money over to his arch rival who could be running for President in 2028? Hell no. We both know that he's going to make him plead and beg for that. And so if he's going to give the money at all, he might just lump it on the backs of California taxpayers to deal with. I wouldn't be surprised. But you know, this creates another opportunity for Trump to have leverage over Newsom and to stick it to his arch rival, Newsom, as well as to Karen Bass in Los Angeles, for whom Donald Trump has no love either.

[Andy Levy]

You know, I'm starting to Think, Jules, that the people who were didn't want the Olympics to be held in Los Angeles might have been onto something. Ha.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah. Well, you know those folks in la, they know what they're talking about. No Olympics. They are a very informed group of activists. They've got some real talent on the team, some video makers, some people in Hollywood back them and they're a group to really keep an eye on. They've been on this for quite a long time and they deserve a lot of credit for the analysis they do.

[Andy Levy]

Oh, absolutely. I guess, sort of an exit question. How do you see this playing out? What's sort of the, what's the worst case scenario that you can see coming out of the sort of combination of Donald Trump, the nsse, the Olympics and the World Cup?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Worst case scenario. I try not to let my mind go there too much, but just total lockdown Los Angeles and basically the Feds just take over in the way that we saw a glimpse of at MacArthur park the other day when they strolled through there all armed up, gun turrets ratcheted to the roofs of jeeps and so on, and that they just do a lockdown and it becomes, if they even are able to stage these events at all, it's under lockdown conditions like we would see in like Argentina at the World Cup a long time back. That's like worst case scenario. And if you would've asked me like a year ago whether I thought that was possible, I would've thought that's a little bit too much. But because of the aggressive nature of the Trump administration and its first few months in office, unfortunately that's just not too much anymore to be thinking about. That's what I fear could happen is that the United States federal government uses the opportunity of these sports mega events to ratchet up its securitization to make it harder on people that wanna just come here from other countries to enjoy a sporting festival and then pivot that infrastructure of repression on people here in the United States as well, citizens and undocumented folks alike. That's like in my darkest moments I started to think about that and unfortunately, the NSSC gives Trump way too much power to make that transition all the easier.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, that is scary stuff. And yeah, I'll join you in hoping that it doesn't come to that. Jules Boykoff, thank so much for being here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. It's just so interesting to me.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Thank you, Andy. I appreciate the opportunity to have a chat with you again. You take care.

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[Danielle Moody]

Folks, I am so happy to welcome back to as the World Churns, Glenn Kirschner, who is the host of Justice Matters. He has a kick ass sub stack that if you are not following, then you are missing out on all of the the legal news that you need to be connected to. Glenn I start out today, you know, remembering when you and I started talking, which now, my God, is years and years ago at this point. I think it was in the first Trump administration when we were going through, you know, the Mueller report and when you were working us through all of these different situations and at every point in turn we said it's going to be this, this is what's going to take him down. It's going to be this, this is what's going to take him down. And here we are 10 years into Donald Trump, into Trumpism second regime. Everything is crumbling around us that we've understood about America. And I guess the question that I have right now as a 30 year, you know, former federal prosecutor, does the rule of law matter anymore given what we are seeing on a day to day basis come out of this regime?

[Therapist]

You know, Danielle, I guess I was hopelessly naive and maybe even foolish because having dedicated 30 years of my professional life to upholding the rule of law, upholding the Constitution, yes, prosecuting people, but making sure we were doing it in a way that honored all of the defendants or the target's rights, statutory, regulatory, constitutional, I naively believed that the rule of law was equipped to deal with even a criminal president. And you know, I think I have to admit I was wrong. Now, does the rule of law matter Today it does, because it is still keeping us a civilized society, though far less civilized, particularly as our leadership in air quotes is concerned, than it used to. You know, my catchphrase is justice matters. It's not just my catchphrase. It's my mantra and my mission in life, my reason for existing right now. This is not what I had on my bingo card when I retired from the Department of Justice. But, you know, people get so angry at me sometimes when I keep closing out every daily YouTube video with, you know, justice matters. And they yell and they scream and they cuss, and I welcome it all because I think it's good to vent, quite frankly, especially among family. And there are millions and millions and millions and millions of Americans who I consider family because they care about the rule of law. They care about our democracy. They care about diversity and decency and kindness and. And equity and empathy and inclusivity and all of it. That's our family. That's our American family. And I say, you know, you wouldn't be so angry when I say justice matters, and you wouldn't yell and scream at me that, no, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. See, to me, that proves that to you, it does matter. You wouldn't be so angry at the injustice if justice didn't matter to you, if the rule of law didn't matter to you. So, yes, it's still matters. The problem is we have folks in power who don't give a rat's ass about the rule of law, about the Constitution, or about the rights of our fellow human beings, whether documented or undocumented. Human beings are human beings, and they don't care about those things. And the problem is, Danielle, we have fewer and fewer places to look to help us enforce the rule of law and breathe life into the rule of law. So we still have the federal court judges. Just before we signed on, we've got yet another temporary injunction against Donald Trump's unconstitutional attempt to Sharpie out of the Constitution the constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship. We just had a class action certified by Judge LaPlante, who was a George W. Bush appointee, and he issued yet another temporary injunction after the Supreme Court tried to say, hey, we don't like these nationwide injunctions. But the Supreme Court also said, you can still do a class action. You can still use the Administrative Procedure act to get at the same thing. You just can't do nationwide injunctions. So guess what? The federal courts have pivoted. They've said, okay, we'll accomplish the same thing. By the vehicle that the Supreme Court said is still available to us. And just moments ago a federal court judge did that. So the rule of law is not dead. It's hanging by a thread. And the next question that I know you're going to ask me, and I'm not going to have a good answer to is but the Supreme Court, right, The Supreme Court, Supreme Court. I, I have no way around that because there's no appeal from an unconstitutional ruling by the Supreme Court. That is traditionally where we have to rely on the co equal branches of government and the checks and balances which today are dead. They're dead.

[Danielle Moody]

So here's what I have tried to wrap my mind around, is that the lower courts, the federal courts and lower meaning under the Supreme Court are trying their best to resuscitate the rule of law. They're trying their best to hold our Constitution together with like duct tape in a dream right now. And every time that these cases float up to the Supreme Court, the Roberts Court shows us that they are moggified, shows us that they don't even need to hear opening statements and need to hear testimony because their decisions have already been made. And when you hamstring the federal courts, the federal bench in the way that they've had, and I appreciate the fact that they're trying to pivot, it just shows us, I guess, that they're not going to kill the Constitution in one blow, but it's going to be this slow, painful death. And so when you talk inside the legal community right now, tell us what the sentiments are as these federal judges are being worked, worked overtime in terms of the cases that are coming out. I mean, I don't again, I've never seen federal judges in the news in the way that they have been over the last six months.

[Therapist]

I've never seen them write opinions calling out a criminal president and his blatantly unconstitutional executive orders or calling out these third rate DOJ lawyers who are going in and beclowning themselves by, by arguing to federal judges, not a judge. The unconstitutional thing Donald Trump did is constitutional. And the judges, the lower, the trial court judges, the circuit courts of appeal are having none of it. You know, they're doing the judicial equivalent of oh f you, are you kidding me? And they're saying things that are getting these lawyers referred to Bar Council for ethics investigations. I don't know why doj, I mean, Danielle, the new lawyer they sent in for the last Abrego Garcia hearing, I forget she has an Irish last name. I'm half Irish. So that's the only thing that registered with me. She's been at the Department of Justice since like, May, and she's three years out of a clerkship or what? I mean, it's absurd because they don't have legitimate ethical lawyers available to go in and defend the indefensible because these people are going to get referred to Bar Council. Maybe they're enthusiastic about losing their law license, but that's the direction, you know, in which they're heading. And I don't think any of this is sustainable. I don't know. I don't know how it all ends. None of us do. I hope it doesn't end with the end of our democracy, but it's not sustainable, unfortunately. So many of my friends and former colleagues are fleeing the Department of Justice, and I don't blame them. They're not obeying in advance. They're saying, I will not do the corrupt, unethical bidding of Donald Trump or Pam Bondi. I won't do it. They have to leave or they're going to be fired. And I don't think anybody has to wait to get fired and then decide whether you want to spend the next couple of years in court fighting an unlawful termination. I don't blame people for leaving, but at some point, it's not just a brain drain from doj, it's an ethics drain. And, you know, this is going to implode. This is not sustainable in the long run. I'm not going to get to the points of light. I'm going to save that till the end because I, you know, I'm trying to find and even convince myself that there are still some dim points of light out there amidst the Trump induced darkness. And I think they are there. I don't know what we do with the Supreme Court that seems determined to say the Constitution is unconstitutional and we will not be constrained by it. What do you do with that?

[Danielle Moody]

I don't know, because we've never faced anything like it. And I've been asking people, you know, when you look at Supreme Court decisions over the 250 years of this country and there have been some disgusting ones, right? Like, you can go to Dred Scott, you can go to Plessy versus Ferguson, you can go to these court cases that pretty much, you know, solidified the fact that black people, formerly enslaved black people, were not people, right? Did not, did not deserve equal treatment under the law, you know, and, and you go back and I, and I look and somebody said to me the other day, they said, well, here's the thing. Those courts didn't know any better because there had never been any precedent. The Roberts court has better, knows better, and has decades upon decades, if not centuries of precedent. And these are the decisions that they're making. So which one is worse? And I was like, damn.

[Therapist]

Yeah, it's a good, that's a great, it's a great point. That's a great point. And, but, but I, you know what? I think the Dred Scott, the Plessy versus Ferguson, the Korematsu, and I don't want to put Dobbs in that same category, but look, Dobbs talk about we should have known better. Dobbs revoked the constitutional right to privacy of women to make their own reproductive health decisions. But what, what all of those cases prove to us is the Supreme Court sometimes acts unconstitutionally just because they say we are pronouncing it from our ivory tower that the Constitution now means this. It doesn't mean they're fucking right. They weren't right in Plessy, they weren't right in Dred Scott, they weren't right in Korematsu, and they're not right today. They're not right in the head, but they're not right today in so many ways. Right. So what it also tells us is that moving forward, if we can keep our republic, there will be opportunities to correct the egregious, unconstitutional wrongs of today's Supreme Court. That's little consolation for those of us who are living through it and for people who are losing constitutional rights rather than gaining them or holding fast to the ones they have. But we are in this for the long haul. We have no other choice. Right? We have to keep fighting. And Danielle, when you talk about, yeah, 10 years ago or however long ago it was, we were talking about, you and me, the Mueller report and how, look. Oh my God, the Trump Russia investigation. Look at all of these obstruction of justice crimes that Donald Trump committed. Oh, that's gonna, oh, wait, it's the Jack Smith he's gonna get.

[Glenn Kirschner]

He's.

[Therapist]

Yeah, well, well, what we should have learned, what I should have learned is that no prosecutor is going to save us. No judge or Justice Sotomayor and Kagan and Katanji Brown Jackson are trying mightily to save our republic and our Constitution from the violence that's being done against it by the radical right wing ideologues, the six Supreme Court justices. But no politician is going to save us because there are a lot of great politicians out there trying to do what they can. But Danielle, if Any white one or group of Dem Democrat politicians could have saved us. They would have saved us by now.

[Danielle Moody]

I, I know.

[Therapist]

So guess who's going to save us if anybody? Us. Us. We're all we've got.

[Danielle Moody]

Yeah. Before I let you go today too, I, I, I, you know, again, staying on the Department of Justice and staying on the fact that it is completely, you know, devoid of any ethics, doesn't believe in following the law. Overnight, Donald Trump has decided to make good on yet another campaign promise of being, you know, the I am your retribution and going after his political enemies. He's now opened up criminal investigations into John Brennan and James Comey, the basis of which loose at best. But it doesn't matter because in the world of maga, which we've now all been sucked into, all that matters is perception. Facts don't matter. And so talk to us about the fact that there is no basis for opening a criminal investigation. But that's not going to stop Pam Bondi from doing what Donald Trump tells her to do. Just like oh, we were supposed to get the inner, the list, the Epstein list, the Epstein files. I could have told you, you know, we were never going to see that because Donald Trump is all over that. So you were never going to see the inside of that. So given again my opening question, does the rule of law matter? Does it matter that there's no basis for opening up in a criminal investigation. If Donald Trump wants it, he's going to get it.

[Therapist]

Yeah, if we weren't in the legal upside down, of course it would matter that he is basically saying I want convictions in search of a crime. I don't really care about the evidence of the crime. I just want revenge against people that I perceive did me wrong. But I'm glad you asked because let me give you five data points as to why this latest punk move by Donald Trump will go exactly nowhere. Prosecutions against Brennan and Comey. And I'm previewing the Justice Matters video that's going to go up in a few hours. 1 John Durham has already conducted this investigation exhaustively, right? The horrific investigate the investigators probe that Bill Barr launched because Donald Trump didn't like the fact that he had been investigated for the Trump Russia connections or for all of his obstruction of justice crimes. So of course Bill Barr, his henchmen, his consulari in the first go round ordered that the investigators be investigated and that included the Comeys and the Brennan's and so many others. And John, John Durham found nothing, nothing to say that Brennan or Comey should be Criminally pursued, nothing. And they use the grand jury, they use subpoenas. It was a criminal probe. And it petered out. There was one FBI lawyer who was found to have lied, I think altered an email and that made it into an application for a FISA warrant. And that person pleaded guilty as well he should have because he violated the law. That was about it. Right? 1. That's the first reason this has all been done before. And there was no there there, too. You know who would be the best defense witness if Comey or Brennan were ever prosecuted? Donald Trump's Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. You know why? He was the acting chairman of the Senate Intel Committee that investigated all things Trump Russia. And he concluded, if I have, here's his quote, I would put him on the damn witness stand as my first defense witness. He said, first of all, no probe into this matter. The origins of the Trump Russia investigation, no probe has been more exhaustive than ours. And he said every witness interviewed by the committee stated that he or she saw no attempts or pressure to politicize the findings. The findings stand and Brennan and Comey did nothing wrong. So Marco Rubio would be what we call a Brady witness, providing devastating evidence in favor of Brennan and Comey against the DOJ if they ever tried to prosecute these two men. That's reason number two. Reason number three, little thing called the statute of limitations. Hypothetically, if Comey and Brennan did anything more than five years ago when this probe was up and running, that could be viewed as criminal. They can't be prosecuted because they've timed out. They are time barred. And a judge would dismiss an indictment based on the statute of limitations for vindictive prosecution. When Donald Trump says, I want these two mofos criminally investigated and prosecuted, that is the mother of all vindictive prosecutions. And these cases would be dismissed. And federal court judges would, figuratively speaking, cram these cases down the throats of the DOJ lawyers who had the bad judgment to walk into court and try to support these prosecutions. And then here is the fifth reason. How many people has Donald Trump said he will prosecute? Let's see. Liz Cheney, Adam Kininger, Adam Schiff, Leticia James Alvin, Alvin Bragg, Jack Smith, Miles Taylor, Christopher Krebs. Now John Brennan, James Comey. Right. And who is the OG of the Donald Trump enemies? That would be Hillary Clinton. Remember, lock her up, lock her up, lock her up. So I think this. And none of those people, and there are more, none of them have been charged with a misdemeanor Never mind indicted for any felony crime, because none of them committed crimes. So, Danielle, maybe the safest place to be to guarantee that you're never going to be prosecuted for anything is to be on Donald Trump's enemies list, because none of them have been prosecuted. Because, as you say, it's really for the value of announcing you're being criminally investigated. And the fear and the threat that that involves, it's no different than when Donald Trump said to President Zelensky, just open, I know you want this congressional money. I know you want weapons to defend your people against Russian, Russian aggression. Just open, just announce, just announce an investigation into my political opponent. That's all I need. That's the same thing he's doing every day with his enemies. I would bet a full buck that's my betting limit. None of these people will see so much as a misdemeanor charge brought against them.

[Danielle Moody]

I mean, we'll have to leave it there today, Glenn, but it's just, again, we continue to say to ourselves, where is the bottom? Where is the bottom? How far is this gonna go? Will we see an investigation into Hillary Clinton? Will he drag Barack Obama before the court of law? It doesn't, like you get to a point where none of it matters, right? Because all of it is a show and a show of force. And that's the escalation that we're seeing with this regime. And I fear that the weaponization of the courts is just in its beginning stages because they're largely, aside from the lower federal courts, the Supreme Court has been complicit in the unraveling of our.

[Therapist]

Constitution and the militarization of our streets.

[Danielle Moody]

And that, too.

[Therapist]

And when you say none of it matters, on the one hand, none of it matters. But the flip side of that coin is it all matters in aggregate. Because it is only when we, the people, the only ones who will save us, get so effing the fed up with the abuse of power and the abuse of office and the mistreatment of, of people that we're going to get out and do what we need to do, right? We're going to march, we're going to protest, we're going to rally, we're going to stand up, we're going to speak out, we're going to scream from the fucking rooftops. We're going to do it peacefully. Let them engage in violence. Let, I don't say this cavalierly, you know, let them bring out the nightsticks or let them try to pull up a Kent State on us because that is sometimes what galvanizes us to say done, you are done. That is the point that I think we're going to get to and I just don't know when.

[Danielle Moody]

Yeah. Thank you my friend, for keeping your eye on everything that we need to be paying attention to as it pertains to the rule of law and for holding out hope that justice actually does still matter. We appreciate you.

[Therapist]

Great being with you, Danielle.

[Andy Levy]

All right, Danielle, close out another week of as the World Churned. Who's your fuck that guy. It better not be a former reality star. That's all I'm saying.

[Danielle Moody]

It's hard, you know, because there are so many inside of this administration. But here's the thing. Overnight the Trump administration has decided to basically decimate NASA and cut 2,145 jobs. According to documents obtained by Politico. Most employees are who are leaving are in senior level government ranks, depriving the agency of decades of experience as part of a push to slash the size of the federal government through early retirement buyout and deferred resignations. The documents indicate that 1,818 of the staff currently serve in core mission areas such as science or human space flight, while the others work in mission support roles including information technology or it. The fact is that on top of this devastation and this utter brain drain that the Trump regime is instituting across agencies that are critical to our progress as a country to the and also to the world's development as it pertains to space, guess who is put in charge of NASA.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, do it, don't do it.

[Danielle Moody]

Uh huh. That would be X Real World Road Head of Transportation Sean Duffy, who I shout out to Rolling Stone stone whose title said man afraid to ride subway named head of NASA. Trump tapped Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy to lead the state the space program on an interim basis. The fact is this regime doesn't give a about America. It doesn't give a about our standing in the world. It doesn't care about anything that has to do with growth. Everything that they are doing is about decimation. Most recently Andy this week France welcomed their first eight science refugees from the United States. Science researchers who are now going to be working at university in France. And the French are putting in millions of euros to bring in more science refugees, engineers and et cetera. Because guess what folks now have no place to go in the United States. And so the brain drain that we've been talking about that maybe happens in some places that are taken over by fascists and authoritarians over years is happening in six months. And so who is going to be left behind in the United States under skilled workers? Because the skilled workers are going to flee to go to nations that will support their work, their grant work, etc. And welcome their intellect in, while America falls behind, decades and decades behind in just a matter of months. So, bravo, Trump administration, you're doing a bang up fucking job. Well done. Fuck all of those guys. But most importantly, Sean fucking I don't ride the subway because I'm terrified. And now I'm in charge of NASA. Fucking real world, Duffy. I hate these people so much.

[Andy Levy]

Yeah, no, it's grotesque. It's so bizarre to be living in, in a country now where the brain drain is people leaving. I mean, I think most of my life the brain drain was people from other countries coming here, whether it was the Soviet Union back in the day or other authoritarian countries, or even countries that weren't authoritarian, but that just didn't have the resources that we had, whatever it was. And to watch that, like you said, overnight in six months, to watch that do a complete 180 to scientists not wanting to come here, to scientists not wanting to stay here, to scientists who are not white not being welcome here, it really is remarkable in every bad sense of that word that we're living through this right now. The idea that Sean Duffy, who I'm pretty sure since he's been Transportation Secretary, I don't feel like a lot of good things have happened. I feel like there's been some issues with the air traffic control system in our country and a bunch of other things. And the idea that he's now temporarily in charge of NASA is just the dumbest fucking thing in the world. But, but this gets to what I was talking about a little earlier in the show, about how there are so few people that Trump seems to want around him or that he trusts that he keeps giving them more and more portfolios, whether it's again, Marco Rubio with five different jobs, or now it's Sean Duffy who's already the Transportation Secretary, now being the NASA administrator. And we're seeing this over and over again as the sort of the core group gets smaller and smaller. And who knows what the reason is for this. Whether it's, you know, Trump is demanding more and more from, you know, loyalists, like there are so few people he trusts to be loyal or whether it's someone else making these decisions because Trump is, you know, there's not, there's not much going on up there at this point. I think we all see that. But it's a real problem when the people are incompetent to begin with, and then they just keep being given more and more jobs. So, yeah, fuck all these people.

[Danielle Moody]

So, Andy, how will you close out this godforsaken week with your fuck that guy?

[Andy Levy]

Well, my fuck that guy is going to be a Republican senator named Thom Tillis. I'm always proud when I don't call him Mel Tillis, who was a country singer, I think he announced about a month ago, he said he's not going to run for reelection. And so now that he's not running for reelection, he's become one of these very, very courageous Republicans who speaks against Trump, something he wouldn't do. A month ago, he said the big stupid bill was bad and that it was going to hurt people and take Medicare away from people. And he's now come out and said he regrets that. He cast the deciding vote to confront Pete Hegseth as Defense Secretary. And, I mean, okay, look, better late than never. But this pattern of Republican congressmen or members of Congress, Republican senators finding the semblance of a spine once they don't have to worry about Donald Trump primarying them by supporting a challenger. I'm tired of it. It's like, I'm not stupid and whatever. I know most politicians are spineless and care more about being reelected than about the people they're supposed to represent, the people they're supposed to serve. But this is just. It's so egregious, and it just seems to happen over and over again. Where you get these people who won't say a bad word about Trump, won't say a bad word about anything Trump does, will go ahead and vote for his shit over and over, will vote to confirm his clearly unqualified people. No, fuck those guys. This is what Tillis told cnn. With the passing of time, I think it's clear Hegseth is out of his debt depth. Really? With the passage of time.

[Danielle Moody]

Passing of time, yeah.

[Andy Levy]

You couldn't have figured this out from everything before you voted to confirm him. Like, again, I don't think you're that stupid. I think you knew damn well back then that he was not qualified to do this and that he was out of his depth. But you put that aside and you put your country aside to vote for something that you thought would benefit you or at least wouldn't hurt you, because if you did the opposite, you were afraid it would hurt you. And that is the definition of cowardice as far as I'm concerned. So I am I'm sick of these people finding a little, you know, a spare vertebrae once they decide they're not running for office. So Thom Tillis and all y' all who are doing this, those guys, you know what?

[Danielle Moody]

I pray that they find comfort like a comfortable spot in hell. Every single one of them. Because that isn't even even a little bit of courage that he's shown. These people have been in Congress longer than most people have been alive. They have known better, they have seen better. They've backed Republicans who they know. Republican president who they know were better than Donald Trump. And they put forth this clown car to destroy America. And now on his way out, he wants to offer his thoughts. Keep your fucking mouth closed in the same way that you've done the last 10 years under Donald Trump, because you can do no one any good anytime fucking soon. So Thom Tillis and the entirety of the Republican Party, fuck those guys.

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